Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
Get ready to play anytime, anywhere with Chumba Casino, where the fun never stops. Whether you love slots, bingo, or solitaire, there's always a new fun game to explore. Dive into hundreds of exciting online social casino games that are all completely free to play. No purchase necessary. If you're looking for some fresh new challenges, at Chumba Casinos, new games drop every week, always keeping the excitement going.
TNC Supply.
Lamont Jones is shattered when his cousin dies just weeks after entering prison. The official report says natural causes, but bruises and missing teeth tell a different story. Wondery presents Death County PA, a chilling true story of corruption and cover-ups that begins as one man's search for answers, but soon reveals a disturbing pattern. Lamont's cousin's death is just one of many, and powerful forces have buried the truth. Follow Death County PA on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Good morning, Facebook. Oregon John, a.k.a. Laychon John. Holy moly. He just sent me a video of himself. Charging handle. Oh, yeah.
Holy shit, that's a monster! Jesus. We all know how I first found John. With a fake name through a fake Facebook. I did, however, eventually reach out to John as the real me. All I want is the truth. John. Yeah. Yes. This is Payne Lindsey. Okay. Payne Lindsey. I'm the podcast guy. Oh. Yeah.
How's it going? Same shit, different day. Question for you, would you ever be down to sit down one-on-one and just talk to me about everything? Um... We can set the terms and, you know, make it comfortable for both of us, you know? You know, um, all I'd have is the truth, you know? That's it. Well, let's talk about that. We'll talk and we'll set something up.
"I appreciate this." "Got some stories for you. You have no idea." He appreciated this. And honestly, I did too. But this is the last time I spoke to John. On my last call, he gave me his real number. He said he wanted to tell me his truth. But then, nothing. He vanished. Again. And that's the thing about Oregon John. He doesn't just disappear. He seems to evade, mutate. He only becomes harder to find.
and harder to trust. And when he does show up again, you're never really sure who you're talking to. John Gurtin isn't just some sketchy name that came up once. He is the last known person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone, her things, in his tent. And somehow, he slipped through the cracks. He made wild accusations. The first time I tracked him down last year. And even then, I walked away thinking, "Who is this man?"
What the hell am I really dealing with? No matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case, it always, always goes back to John. So, in classic up-and-vanish fashion, I found myself in a deja vu state, starting all over again. It was hard enough to find John the first time. This time, surely was not going to be easier. "Call has been for-" Is that your fucking fax number? I'm so sick of this shit.
The number John gave me was blocked. Or a fax number? I don't know. But of course it was. So what do I do? I first called the homeless shelter in Ketchikan. Hi, this is Ty. I called the shelter and I was given your number, I guess, if I had additional questions. I'm trying to locate one of my friends who I think may be staying there.
So I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not. Just as a heads up, I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny if, you know, if I did give it to them or anything like that. So what is the person's name you're looking for? His name is John Gerton. Okay. Hold on. John Gerton. One second. Let me look at something really quick. One second. So I can actually say that he is not staying with us. He is currently not a client with us.
Is there anywhere else in town that is a similar establishment where he may be? No. No, we're the only shelter in town, unfortunately. If it's to the point of, like, a missing persons thing, you could contact our police department.
Missing persons thing. Kind of ironic, but I guess John was missing too. He isn't a missing person per se. I would qualify it more like a hiding person. Okay, yeah, yeah, I get you. I was trying to remember why the names sounded so familiar, and I do recall that there was a big flub-bub, oh, it was a while ago, sometime last year, and his name was splashed across Facebook.
That's interesting. But no luck there. On to the next part of my plan.
Let's just do what always seems to never work and call the police department. 735- You have reached the Ketchikan Correctional Center. For an attendant, press zero. Please spell the offender's first name using your telephone keypad. I'm sorry, I can't find the offender you are searching for. Well, that's a whole bunch of shit.
Administration, press zero. Booking, press one. Catch can't stay correct from center staff. Sergeant Bailey, how may I help you? Hey, Sergeant Bailey, how you doing? My name is Payne. I'm trying to locate a man named John Gerton, and I'm curious if he has been booked...
Okay, so I have a John Gerton from January 15th of 2025.
Born in Portland. That's him. That's the last time he was here, and he was released on January 15th. Arrested for violating a restraining protective order. So his case is not adjudicated, meaning that he's not been sentenced. The judge hasn't made a formal judgment related to this case. He was arrested at 241 Avenue. Door dash, driver looking at this form shows that I fingerprinted him on January 15th.
John was arrested in Ketchikan, currently out on bail. Another name, another rabbit hole. Okay, you're getting a call back.
I bet it is. Goodbye to you too. Was that weird? Or am I letting my own frustrations get to me here? I didn't like the way that call ended. If John's living with this guy, I need to know that. James. James. Can you hear me, man? Yeah. Okay, you don't have a brother named Jesse? No. Okay. My records show that you do.
- James? - Yeah? - I don't know who that is. I can't help you. - Why not? Why can't you help me? James? Okay. His friend's address, which might be where he lives. Holy shit, yes it is. That's the same place that John wanted me to meet him at months ago.
Property detail, yes. Rental property, number of residents, 19. John Allen Gurdon. Got your ass. Now, what's the smartest way to get a hold of him? I need to find a way to send a safe, professional person, a private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf, to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone,
and tell him to fucking call me. Hi, so I just got off the phone with Otto. He likes to talk, so it took a while. He states that guy doesn't live up there. This is when I brought in Clyde. He's a process server. Professional. Tactical. And most importantly, local. I told him the whole story. Everything. He didn't hesitate. Another guy named Jesse. The name John Gerton gave the police as his contact...
Very well could be staying with this guy. I know Jesse and his wife. And I wouldn't think he'd be staying with them. But who am I? Well, at least we have an in here. I will say that John has a history of doing cab driving, taxi driving. I've got no problem with, you know, going to the Ketchikan Lake Road and asking Jesse or Crystal, whoever comes to the door, if John's living there.
He's not in trouble for anything, but he promised to have a conversation with me, and now I haven't been able to track him down. Really, I'm trying to make contact with him and give him the means to contact me.
At this point, my plan was evolving. I wanted Clyde to find John however possible and give him a package from me. Inside, a simple one-page note and a prepaid phone that John can call me on. It wouldn't surprise me if a phone was given to Jesse, then John comes back home later, and John's like, oh yeah, this guy's crazy, throw that away, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So, do you want to get me this phone? I first need to give Clyde the actual phone itself. But I am worried about Clyde giving it to anyone else other than John himself. Hey, just to let you know, AT&T doesn't sell burner phones. AT&T sells prepaid phones at Walmart. Then you take the phone to the AT&T store. They give you a phone number and you pick a plan you want.
Any plan. I don't care. I'm gonna drive out to Walmart, figure this whole thing out, okay? Clyde's at Walmart. No, I'll pay right now. She's hooking up the prepaid account. It's got both internet and minutes, she said. I've got this phone. What do you want me to do with it? I actually have a list of instructions that I've just finished writing out for you. To keep it very simple.
Maybe now we're getting somewhere. I hope so. Any inkling as to where he's staying? Because he has to be sleeping somewhere.
He's not nowhere. He's in Ketchikan. He believes he's living in his car. I've seen this car before. I know exactly what it looks like. I'm just driving by an early 90s Subaru Outback. I'm sending you two pictures and a video. It's white and it's looking like it's worse for wear and tear and it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there. Hold on.
He found a white '90s Subaru, beat up, sun-faded, with a man hunched over in the front seat. "John? John? Hey! Hey! Look at me! Are you John?" "I am. Look up there, John." "Okay, wake up. It's okay."
I thought it was John's car too. How many white Subarus were in Ketchikan?
Summer's here and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dress season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways and your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango, Skims, Princess Polly and Madewell. It's easy too with free shipping and free returns. In-store order pickup and more. Shop today in stores online at nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app.
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at mintmobile.com. Running a business comes with a lot of what-ifs, but luckily there's a simple answer to them.
Shopify. It's the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, including Thrive Cosmetics and Momofuku, and it'll help you with everything you need. From website design and marketing to boosting sales and expanding operations, Shopify can get the job done and make your dream a reality. Turn those what-ifs into... Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer.
Last year, a listener of Up and Vanished who lives in Ketchikan sent me pictures and video of John's car. I need to confirm if this is actually his car or not. And also where those pictures and video were actually taken. So I texted her.
And just FaceTimed her. Maybe this listener, a local in Ketchikan, can confirm whether or not this is actually John's car.
It's listeners just like her who truly make a difference in these cases. And her willingness to help out of nowhere is the exact energy we need to solve this thing. She FaceTimed in another friend. This lady told me that she saw John's car parked at the local McDonald's literally yesterday. She was around the corner from that same McDonald's, so she pulled up. I just ordered some food. I'm sitting at a table. I can see him in that camo coat he's always wearing.
Sure enough, there he was. John Gurtin. Sitting in a chair eating lunch. We do live on an island and driving around town and there he was sitting in McDonald's. Okay, this situation just went from urgent to frantic. I called Clyde. He's at the McDonald's right now. But he's finishing his meal and he's about to leave. One of our fellow listeners in Ketchikan stayed at McDonald's on the phone with me. John was getting up. He was done eating.
Then he walked out the door. This cannot be how this ends. Clyde, please get there. Hey, John. Oh, geez. You scared me, sir. Clyde pulls up just in time. Hey, my name's Clyde. Yes. Hey, I was asked to drop this off with you. It's a brand new phone with a note in it. And I was just... Somebody dropped it by my office today and asked me to get it to you. Okay? Okay.
Somebody thought it would be a funny idea when on Facebook on Catch Cannon Community Cycle that I was a murderer. You're a murderer? Mm-hmm. And I've got federal credentials. Who's your murderer?
Um... Well, that's not true. Now, he just has to take the package.
Thanks for letting us know. It's funny the way he talks so openly. Clyde shook John's hand and left.
Life is grand, I guess. I talked to him for six or seven minutes and he went on about this, that, and the other thing. He's going to church. His wife is in the Philippines. I said, well, you know, it's a phone with minutes on it. You're good to go. You know, call whoever you want type thing. There's a note there for you also.
Clyde's job was done. He successfully delivered the package to Oregon John. Hearing the tape from Clyde and John talking felt very reminiscent of my time with John at the local bar.
If John Gurtin was cleared, I wouldn't even be talking to you today. I know John had the phone. He held it in his hand. I have video of this. Now, all I could do is wait. My mind's going in all different directions. Is he reading my letter? What's he going to think? Is this a lifeline? A trap? A test? All three? I want to follow up on my end of the deal, giving John one last chance to clear the air about everything.
Despite being thousands of miles away, this was the closest I'd been to him in months. Hello? Is this, uh, Payne? This is Payne. Is this John? Yes, sir. So you got the phone? Yeah. I, I, I believe in telling the truth as much as I can remember it or anything. You know what I'm saying? I want to get down to brass tacks again. Because, like, I don't want to keep doing this, you know?
I really reached out to this degree to try to give you a chance to say anything that you wanted or needed to say so that you don't go down as the bad guy. I could not fathom how much it would take to even do something, let alone so cleanly. You know what I mean? It's impossible.
She's made up her mind, if pretty smart
Boring money moves make kind of lame songs, but they sound pretty sweet to your wallet. BNC Bank. Brilliantly boring since 1865.
Memorial Day savings are here at the Home Depot. So take your kitchen to the next level with up to 35% off, plus up to an extra $450 off select appliances like LG. Plan your get-togethers with an LG refrigerator you can count on for years to come at the Home Depot. And with the connected ThinQ app, you'll know if the door is left open and when to change the filter. Spend less time worrying this Memorial Day with savings on LG, America's most reliable appliance brand at the Home Depot.
Offer valid May 15th through June 4th. U.S. only. See store or online for details. This episode is brought to you by Amazon's Blink Video Doorbell. Get more at your door with the easy-to-install Blink Video Doorbell. Get more connections. Hey, I'm here for our first date. More deliveries. Hi, I have tacos for two. Oh, thanks. We'll be right down. And more memories.
He's the last person to see Florence Akpialik alive. He had her phone, her things, inside his tent. His stories don't make sense. He doesn't have an alibi.
He made wild accusations, paranoid rants, rambling stories that didn't line up. He played the victim, claimed he was being framed. And maybe he believes that. Or maybe some of what he's saying is true. That night, I talked to John for hours. And then hours again the next night. All these calls are recorded. And you're going to get to hear them. And right now, John says he's ready to talk in a different way. In person. Man-to-man. Face-to-face.
to finally tell me his truth. So this week, we're meeting. And hopefully, I walk away with the answers I need to solve Florence's case once and for all. But here's the thing with John. Which version of him am I going to get? What version of the truth is he ready to tell? Because this isn't just about finding John. It's about finding out who John really is. And what, if anything, he had to do with Flo's disappearance.
just when I thought I had my hands full with Org and John, another bombshell dropped. "My brother on my dad's side, he was married to Kim Pescoia during the time Joseph went missing. I really think he knows something about the truck, Joseph's truck, but the Pescoias have a good grip on him. He's not coming forward every time I bring it up to him. He's very hush-hush. I think he parked it. He helped park Joseph's vehicle. I think he didn't know what he was even doing at the time.
My gut feelings are almost always right. You really need to talk to my brother. Oh, don't worry. We already did. Keep your friends close. Stay tuned for another update this week on when to expect the next episode. But I promise you, the team and I are busting our ass. And our number one priority is that we do this right. I'm meeting with John Gurtin this week.
In the meantime, you can follow my Instagram for faster updates. My handle is at PayneLindsay. And the same for Up and Vanished. At Up and Vanished. Talk soon. Starting your own business can be intimidating. Suddenly, you're wearing all the hats. Designer, marketer, customer support, shipping expert.
It's a lot. That's where Shopify comes in. Shopify is the global commerce platform powering millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. Shopify has your back. With hundreds of ready-to-use templates, you can launch a beautiful, professional online store that looks and feels like you. Need content? Shopify's AI tools can help you write product descriptions, headlines, even enhance your product photos. Want to learn more?
Want to grow your reach? Easily create email and social media campaigns to meet your audience wherever they're scrolling. And with Shopify's world-class support, you'll have expert help for everything. Turn your big business idea into... with Shopify on your side. Sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash odysseypodcast. Go to shopify.com slash odysseypodcast. shopify.com slash odysseypodcast.