Mercury Needs To Sit Its A$$ Down Somewhere
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This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

♪♪

How are we? Girl. Surviving. Surviving. Bitch, if Mercury doesn't sit his ass somewhere and stop retrograding, moonwalking. Mercury's getting a failing grade. I don't care about that retrograde. I'm tired of her. Just sit.

Sit down somewhere. Sit down somewhere. This week, we're going to talk about Republicans in Texas and Florida and Arizona seemingly taking part in human trafficking, shipping migrants to places like Martha's Vineyard, Washington, D.C., New York, Chicago. And later, for something a little bit lighter, we're going to break it down. We're going to go deep to celebrate the 25th anniversary of two iconic crimes.

That's right. Mariah Carey's Butterfly and Janet Jackson's The Velvet Rope. That's right, honey. Those albums came out the same year and we're going to pay homage. But before we get into all of that, how are you doing, Sam? How are you feeling? I am feeling some kind of way just watching news coverage this week.

Because there's such a juxtaposition of stories and the coverage of those stories. We don't have to talk about the monarchy again because we did last week, but they covered the hell out of that royal funeral to the extent that there was like coverage of a spider on the flowers on her casket. And meanwhile, all of Puerto Rico lost power due to a hurricane. And it was like the second story under the queen's funeral. That felt off to me. I did not like it.

I am sad about it. Besides that, though, I am in Texas visiting family and friends this week before going to Trib Fest. And let me tell you, Texas treats me right. Mama's been eating, like, just good food. And that feels nice. I love that. You deserve that. How about you, Zach? I'm,

similar to Sam and how I'm thinking about it. I just feel like the world, according to Biden, is no longer in a pandemic, which is bullshit. I'm just going to say that on the top right now. We were still seeing 400 people die every week, meaning over 100,000 people will die in a year if we keep at this rate. And, you know, why I bring that up and why I'm bringing up

What Sam is saying is because I just feel like we've gone backwards in time and Trump's on the horizon and how we're seeing the news cover everything, the stories of the migrants, which we're going to get into. I just feel like I'm in Groundhog's Day. And for me, I'm feeling a little out of control because this will be the first election cycle for me that I'm not a working journalist in the ways that I used to be. Like I won't be on the ground reporting. I won't be an editor. I won't be helping lead a newsroom.

So I'm feeling a little like everyone else. And I'm like, whoa, if this is how y'all view the news, oh my God, you have no way to shape it. And we've all worked in news for a while. You're able to shape it, speak up, and we have the show to say something. But it's just different. And seeing all the fumbling and seeing how things are being handled, how stories are being...

and not covered. I'm just like, oh my God, what is happening? And I'm also going to Toronto this week to see my family, my mom and my stepdad. You know, a big part of why they live in Toronto now is because of what Trump did. I'm just feeling annoyed that like, you know, things haven't gotten better. They're getting worse and we're just kind of like, la la la, the queen has a spider on her coffin. So I'm annoyed.

Let's be honest, you know, the vibe is not always going to be great, even when it's like personally good. And I think this is part of what we talk about when it's like how it all feels. It's like, you know, your awareness of what's going on around you. And I just I'm here in Ohio. And so I have to acknowledge something that has been just weighing heavy on my heart. This is from public radio here in Ohio. Ohio State School Board today, this is Tuesday, is currently considering a resolution, a

And so that is being considered by the Ohio Board of Education today. And I just want to make it clear that it's being proposed by someone who's never worked in education. It's like a business owner who has five homeschooled children and states that, quote, sex is an unchangeable fact.

And so basically they're trying to say that if you any way try to investigate LGBTQIA discrimination in schools, you could get your like food funding taken away. You won't eat? That's wild. It just makes me so. Well, it's not you won't eat. The children won't eat. The children won't eat.

they don't even send their kids to public schools. They're homeschooling their kids. Their kids are in Christian schools and private schools. They literally don't even go here. It's wild. - What like a Betsy DeVos, her kids don't even go to public school all day, but she was up here trying to destroy public schools. Yeah, it's pretty. - That's the thing. It's like, it's weighing on you. It's weighing on all of us. - The vibes are off. - The vibes are off in a pointed way, darling.

Before we get into the first topic, we want to thank all of you who've been sending us fan mail and tweeting at us and DMing us and even sharing those TikToks. We're on TikTok. Yes, we are with the youth. We appreciate you all so much. We love hearing your feedback and recommendations. Keep them coming. Email us anytime.

at vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. Also tweet us with the hashtag vibecheckpod. I love the person this week who tweeted that they were like, I usually listen to my podcast at like 1.5 speed or two. I was like, what kind of? But they were like, no, I need to, I got to listen to Vibe Check at normal speed. I got to let this shit ride. Marinate, baby. Marinate in this. Get lost in this sauce. With that, let's jump in, shall we? Let's do it.

All right. So to kick things off, we have to talk about what the hell is going on with the Republican Party. And we're going to talk about migrants. And I will just start by saying I spent a lot of my years as a reporter trying to tell migrant stories, working with migrants, going across the border. And I'm like really glad that we have the space to talk about this because I don't think we talk about this in a human way very much. And I just want to begin with the human way of talking about

So when we see these stories like we saw this week, all the headlines you've seen is that DeSantis or Abbott have sent 50 migrants to Martha's Vineyard or wherever. And this has been secretly going on for a minute. So there has been trafficking, and we can call it trafficking. They are moving bodies across state lines for political gain. And lying to them while moving. And lying to them by using other migrants to gather them. So they're paying migrants to trick other migrants to get them across state borders.

And why I want to start with the human side of this is because the humanity of this is what's going to help color this a lot better. So to begin, asylum seekers in America are completely legal. What these people have done is completely legal, full stop. This country was founded on asylum seekers. That is literally the foundation of the country. People fleeing political violence, religious violence, everything to come here.

So what people should know is that the background of these migrants that went to Martha's Vineyard, for instance, they come from Venezuela, a country that we as a nation do not have great back channels with due to political turmoil. We don't have a safe- We've messed with their politics for a while. We've messed with them so much. We have created so much distrust there that-

Our government cannot speak to them through formal channels. We have back channels. We can't talk to them. So anyway, these people have been fleeing for their lives. They have crossed oceans. They've crossed mountains. They've crossed deserts. Many of the friends and family members have probably died. And somehow they've crossed the border and they have told the U.S. government that they are fleeing for their lives.

they have now begun the process of trying to become legal residents of this United States of America because, to my first point, asylum seeking is legal. It's the basis of this country and what we do. During that process, these people have probably faced sexual violence, have not eaten for a long time, have been through so much, have been harassed by ICE detention officers, everything. And these two men, two white men in Florida and Texas-

woke up one day and said, you know what I'm going to do to people who are deeply traumatized? I'm going to use their friends against them who are so desperate. And I'm for my own, just for my own context, I went to Mexico once to meet with migrants. People were selling their children to traffickers because they hadn't eaten. And I got to witness how people were picking the kids. Oh my goodness. This is how desperate these people are. They just want to survive and find a place. And they don't want to be here, first of all.

But these people know this, this kind of dire situation these folks are in. And they said, let's exploit them for our own political gain and send them to democratic strongholds. So that is the context that I would like to begin with, because I think we as black people know what it's like to have our bodies used as pawns. But that's something that I just see missing in all this. We just see the numbers of 50 people. They were fed. But I'm like, them getting to that moment was so horrible. To have these men do this is just as unfathomable to me. Well, and there are so many questions as we continue to learn more about

what has happened. So we've seen Governor Abbott in Texas and Governor DeSantis in Florida. And I believe Governor Ducey in Arizona is also participating in this. Literally flying and busing migrants to places like Martha's Vineyard or outside Kamala Harris's house. Washington, D.C. To Washington, D.C. And what we've been discovering is that

they've been lying to these folks the whole time. So they would have these sketchy figures lie to get them on the bus or plane, offering them food and benefits and jobs. And then the pamphlets they were given

listed benefits that they could never receive if they did this. And then on top of it, when they had to put down information for these folks for various documents with immigration services, they listed fake addresses in multiple states, which meant that these migrants were required to show up at the immigration offices closest to those addresses, which they could never get to somewhere in like Seattle.

They were setting these folks up to be arrested again, you know? But what's crazy about it all is under some legal reasoning, if a judge finds that DeSantis or Abbott or whoever was trafficking these people, that makes it even easier for them to get a visa. U.S. immigration policy favors migrants who have been trafficked and fast tracks them for visas. This could totally backfire on them. How does this help anybody?

It goes back to what you were saying a few weeks ago, I think, about resilience is a scam, that we shouldn't be pushing people to survive more and survive more and celebrating that. Because to your point, Sam, because we've pushed these people to literal brinks, due to some loophole, they're going to now be able to stay here because they have been trafficked. That is wild. Yeah.

It's wild. Gosh, there's just such a heaviness here. Because I think whether it's trafficking human beings as financial capital in the case of the history of enslavement in our country, or in this case, trafficking people for political capital, for PR capital to make gains. Because part of what someone like Governor DeSantis, who's trying to position himself

As a contender in the next presidential election, part of what he's trying to do is put himself in this scheme where he is impacting the politics in other states and prominent cities outside of the state of Florida, which is actually his jurisdiction. So it basically makes him look like the de facto leader of the Republican Party.

And I saw that apparently former President Trump at some point in the last couple of days commented that he was kind of jealous, that he felt like they're stealing his idea. I don't know if he said he was jealous, but I know he said, oh, they're stealing my idea. So it's just so crass that that's what's going on. But this morning I was listening to an interview with one of the asylum seekers from Columbia, California.

And that's part of what's different, that this is different from the last migrant crisis, the last time that this was getting a lot of media attention. A lot of these asylum seekers are coming from South America and the Caribbean, so they're coming actually even further. And one of them took off his shoes and

and showed the reporter that he was talking to and remarked that his feet were black and purple and blue, just from all of the walking. And I just had a moment where I started thinking about Saidiya Hartman, an incredible cultural critic and scholar, where she talks about the afterlife of slavery. And that's why I think when we talk about human trafficking, it's so painful because we see these loops that were caught in. And I was thinking about the fact that some ancestors in my family, on my mother's side,

were brought as slaves across the Atlantic Ocean to the Carolina coast.

And we're forced to endure a forced march from the Carolina coast. Y'all know where that is to what's now the area of Western Tennessee known as Memphis. Think about how long that is and how brutal. And so like to read now in 2022, the way that, you know, that cycle is being repeated for political stance. Well, and this is the thing when you talk about this cycle, the playbook that DeSantis and Abbott

and others are playing is literally out of the White Citizens Council playbook. After this story broke, a lot of reporters pointed out that in the 1960s, during the Civil Rights Movement, White Citizens Councils in the South did the same thing with Black people.

You had the citizens councils in Little Rock, Arkansas or in New Orleans offering what they called reverse freedom rides to protest the freedom rights for freedom that were happening throughout the South in that moment. They set up black people in the South and said, we're going to give you better jobs, more this, more that. Take this bus to the North. And they sent these folks to Hyannis Port and other places outside of the Kennedy's home.

This has happened before. And the fact that DeSantis and Abbott and others should know or do know that what they're doing was done 50 years ago by a white citizens council, that historical parallel to see it and not be ashamed by that, there's really no bottom. There's no base. There's no floor for someone who will do that. They will keep going. And I think that is what is particularly chilling about this.

the midterms are still months away and 2024 is still years away. And we know that Abbott wants to run for president. DeSantis wants to as well.

What will they do next? It's scary. Oh, God. At times it's hard for me to talk about it because it makes me so sad. But let's fucking talk about it because I'm mad about it. Sam, as you pointed out, that they're intentionally trying to send these asylum seekers. It's legal. This is legal what they're trying to do. They're sending them as far away from the places they need to be to follow through on the legal process.

Right. And then also I was listening to an activist explain that also it's not like they're communicating the numbers in a transparent way with the communities they're sending them to. So the mayor of Washington, D.C. had to declare a public emergency because it's not just that like large numbers of people are arriving in cities like Chicago, New York and Martha's Vineyard, whatever, is that.

the governors won't tell, they won't be transparent about how many people they're sending. And that's how you know they don't mean well. If they really wanted to help these migrants, they'd call ahead. They'd say, let's figure this out. And if they found a place where they were welcome, they'd say, all right, let's keep this relationship going. They're going to the next spot and the next spot and the next spot.

To cause chaos and not solutions. To cause chaos and also what you're seeing is a scaling of the Republicans' violent strategies. So if you put this conversation on the same track as access to trans healthcare, access to reproductive rights healthcare, you're seeing that they're trying to say, well, you go elsewhere. And once people start going elsewhere and pipelines get built by Democrats, by liberals to help get people out, then they start criminalizing that act itself. They're going to keep criminalizing at every level, whether it is gay,

getting a migrant food, getting a person access to abortion until they stop and they kill this person. And this is what the end game is. Chase Strangio talks about this a lot, the very well-known lawyer from the ACLU. He says these attacks by Republicans isn't because they don't understand, it's because they want to eradicate these people. And I think what people should see when they look at DeSantis

is a man that wants these migrants dead. And that is just the case. And that's horrible. And there's nothing you can tell me otherwise these days. And this is what's so wild. In another scenario, a lot of these people wanting to move migrants here, move migrants there, traffic them. They'd have those same people clean their homes, raise their kids, take care of their yards. They

This is what's so galling. In another scenario, they would gladly accept their labor. But for political points, it becomes all that it becomes. Well, these white people always wanted our labor. To close, there is a book that came out this year that everyone should read. It's called Asylum. It's by Adafi Akoporo. He's a Nigerian asylum seeker and activist. So I think people should order it, read it. It will give you a really firsthand account of what it's like to go through all of this and to survive it all. And he is queer and amazing. And I love you, Adafi.

All right. Well, it's time for us to take a quick break. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

We're back. You're listening to Vibe Check. And right now we're going to switch gears and talk about two women who mean a lot to the three of us, Mariah Carey and Janet Jackson. For those who don't know, both of them are in a moment of anniversary. About 25 years ago, Mariah and Janet both released albums that kind of changed the entire path of their careers.

On September 16th, 1997, Mariah released her album Butterfly. It was a sexier, more mature, and dare I say blacker version of Mariah. And it was a free Mariah. During the course of making this album, she divorced her husband, Tommy Mottola, this record executive who, with a very strong hand, controlled her career and her music for a long time.

Same year, on October 7th, Janet Jackson released The Velvet Rope, perhaps my favorite Janet album. This album came at a time when all eyes were on her. She had really, really high expectations to live up to. Her last album before that one had sold some 10 million copies in the U.S. alone, and it had given her perhaps the biggest song of her career, the classic That's The Way Love Goes.

And before the velvet rope, she had also signed this mega deal with Virgin Records for $80 million. So there was this immense pressure on her to be bigger than ever before and offer a big return on investment.

And I think we can all agree as we start this chat about these two albums, both Mariah's album and Janet's album exceeded expectations by a lot. By a lot. I would say they exceeded expectations and then did something that positions them for us to be able to talk about these albums 25 years later. They transcended. They transcended the expectations. They transcended, I think, our understanding of these two women as pop stars, um,

as artists because I think what's also really important both about the albums I mean the music is impeccable and we're going to talk about that but it's also about the imagery how they decided to present themselves you know physically their style the aesthetics they're drawing from I think were really important and ahead of their time and liberating and can I I don't even know where to start because you know I'm you know I want to quote some lyrics you know I need to go there yes do it um

The Roof. We have got to talk about The Roof back in time by Mariah Carey. Which was about Derek Jeter, right? About Derek Jeter, which, you know. Listen. Never, because, you know, he's cute. He's fine. You know, whatever. But I was like, once I found out that he was, he inspired the backstory for this song, I was like, I had to take a second look at him, man. I was like, wait a minute. Are you ready? Okay, girls, here we go. I just had to be your face to feel alive. Even you can't you.

Mariah Carey. Taste my sadness. One of the best songwriters. Taste my sadness as you kiss child. And like what I keep thinking about is I think we've all read her memoir, which I think is one of the best memoirs ever. I listened to it. A great audio book. I was about to say, I was like, child, you know we listen to it. It's amazing. But like she describes at

length the first time meeting Derek Jeter and kind of while she was dealing with Tommy Mottola, who was a very abusive partner to her, according to many stories she tells you. And so for her to produce lyrics that beautiful, that sensual in the midst of so much chaos in her life, I just, an icon, an icon. Yeah. Well, and this is the thing about Mariah in that moment. When she started out, she was making adult contemporary music. It was safe pop music.

in the vein of Celine Dion. That's what she was doing at the start with a little bit of uptempo, but it was like power ballads, right? And they had crafted this career for her where she was ostensibly a pop star who, if you didn't know she was black, you didn't know.

And what she does with "Butterfly," what she does with the video for that lead single, "Honey," she says, "Oh, no, no, hold on. I'm a black artist that can dabble in black sounds of the moment. I'm also a sensual being. I'm a sexual being in charge of my body, and that's allowed."

When you do that after having the run of number ones that she had had before that time, it is a big risk. And she was in probably every meeting with every exec where they're saying, don't do it. Don't do it. Do the formula. Do the formula. She's saying no to them while at the same time going through one of the nastiest divorces in music history while making the album. Right.

And then she makes incredible videos on top of all of it. Like, it's not just an exercise in personal creative freedom. It was an exercise in strength and focus that a lot of pop stars do not have today. Like, she went through it and was impeccable the entire time. Impeccable. And I also think the themes of –

both of their albums, they complement each other very well, I guess is what I'm trying to say. For example, at this point in my life, I was beginning to obviously struggle with things like sexuality and identity, and it was manifesting for me personally with really bad panic attacks and anxiety attacks. And I would just like, I have vivid memories of like having, where I just couldn't breathe and I was curled up on the floor of my bedroom. And so these two albums, which I mean, I would play the CDs until they were scratched and I would have to go out

and get another one, you know what I mean? Because it was just like the skips were becoming so bad. But I think hearing someone like Janet Jackson, who, you know, was introduced to us, you know, as control, rhythm, nation, like that was the Janet I had in my mind. And Mariah, I mean, this was fantasy. It was Mariah on the roller coaster, the hair and the wind. And for Janet to say, I get so lonely.

And for Mariah to say Breakdown and the way that song kind of in me, I think lyrically, sonically, you know, you kind of feel someone kind of crumbling in amidst their own beauty. It just it really helped me breathe. These women gave me some oxygen.

Well, and up until these albums, both of these women were allowed to be sensual in a very surface and kind of positive way. Cute, sexy, fun, sexy, danceable, sexy. Sex for the male gaze. There you go. And Janet on the velvet rope is saying, let me show you the other side of my sensuality.

Let me show you what it means to be angsty and emotional and sexually frustrated and dealing with issues of sexual fluidity, talking about depression. Let me show you that essential being contains multitudes. That was such a brave and bold choice for someone who had become known in the zeitgeist as like the really hot Jackson with the hot magazine covers with hands over her breasts, right? She was saying, no, there's more. And even the lead video,

for the lead single Got Till It's Gone. She is really challenging what Janet Jackson can do. She's not really dancing. She's in this beautiful video by Dayton and Harris where she seems to be in a South African jazz club vibing with beautifully dressed black people. And then the chorus of the song, she's so powerful, so in her bag. She says in that song, I won't sing the chorus, Joni Mitchell will. Don't seem to want you Don't seem to go

Like the best Joni Mitchell sample of all time. That's power. Can we also talk about the interludes on that album? Because on the Janet period album, it also has some pretty wild...

Interludes. But Velvet Rope, you're right. I mean, just in this sense of, and Mariah was doing this too in her own way, this pushing forward, this full embracing of self and the body. And just like the interlude where she's like on the phone with a friend and her friend's like, your coochie gonna swell up and fall apart. Yeah. And it's like,

The kids need to hear it. And I mean, it's just incredible. And it's why, to me, this is why I know people are either ignorant or they're talking in bad faith when they try to sex shame Megan Thee Stallion, Cardi B, you know, because I'm like, they are engaging a tradition that goes, and it goes way beyond Mariah and Janet, but child,

Girl, what they did. Yeah. And both of them are doing these big shifts in their public presentation of self. They're taking risks with their label, with their career. And yet they both end up with number ones. Honey was a number one single. Together Again was a number one single from Janet. They both went multi-times platinum. Like they bet on themselves and it worked. And that for me is like an inspiration in like my career. How can I be more of myself?

and own all parts of who I am. You bring it up together again, and we would be remiss without talking about the meaning of that song. It's a song famously, probably one of the most famous songs besides Waterfalls that come out in the 90s about the HIV AIDS epidemic. Janet wrote the song to those she lost in the midst of the epidemic. This comes out in 97, which is when finally Bill Clinton begins to acknowledge and other politicians are acknowledging the epidemic in ways that Bush did not acknowledge.

And it was just so powerful and it continues to be powerful that this song that is so huge, one of her biggest songs ever, is a song for people that look like us that died during that time. And it just means everything to me every time I hear it. - Yeah. - Well, I have to pay homage because I know we were talking about the magnificent Cheryl Lee Ralph last week, but again, Cheryl Lee Ralph, she's founding her HIV/AIDS awareness organization in 1990.

And then we have Janet Jackson in 1997, you know, creating just an incredible anthem to her friends and collaborators that she lost. And I just, again, will always respect these black women who were making sure that we were being celebrated and visible. Oh, yeah. I had the honor and privilege, gosh, about a year ago, I got to interview Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. They're Janet Jackson's longtime producers and songwriting collaborators.

And they spoke to the level of artistry and craft present in that woman. People forget, you know, when they were kids, the Jacksons had like a Vegas residency. And Janet was the youngest in the sibling squad, but she was still on stage with them. Janet Jackson was playing Vegas shows when she was like six and seven years old. She's been working since she was a kid and she was a regimented, trained artist.

Artist they told me about some of the recording sessions. They would do with her for all the albums. They'd say Sam It's hard to explain the music is so in her the beat is so in her she'll be singing the songs in the studio and she'll even breathe on the beat and

her breaths in between the lyrics are rhythmic. Like, she's an artist. And I think we don't give her those flowers enough because it was pop, because she's a woman. But when you listen to what she's doing on these albums and when you watch the videos and that choreo,

She was something else. And she always gave Michael a run for his money. I'm sorry. She did. And Mariah too. I mean, I think I was telling y'all this story the other day, but at one point I was just, my friend Isaac is a witness. He'll tell you. We were enduring a very unpleasant road trip and we're stuck with this, this white hipster bro from Brooklyn who had the whole time had just been talking about being songwriter and that, you know, whatever. And I was like, yeah, I like music too, whatever. And then at some point I brought up Mariah.

And he was just speaking really disrespectfully about her. And I was like, I can't believe you as a songwriter would be talking about the greatest songwriter of all time this way. And I realized he didn't know she wrote her songs.

And I was like, what are you doing? And I was like, look it up. That's the patriarchy. I was like, get out your phone and look it up. You were about to be so embarrassed. And I think there's something with both. And you said this with Janet. But with Mariah, her femininity, her love of pink, her love of embracing of being the diva and all of that. It's interesting to see how people allow that to justify undermining her genius. They are both American geniuses.

Geniuses. Well, this is the thing about Janet that people forget. She was always crossover. She was always making like subtly rock as well. Her song Black Cat was up for a Grammy in the rock category. I believe she's been up for Grammys in five different musical categories and charted on even more types of musical charts.

They have always been stronger and more talented than anyone gives them credit for. Even with Mariah, like when you think about Christmas classic songs, Christmas standards, there's a lot that were written in the 30s and 40s. And then there were decades where there wasn't a new Christmas classic in America. And then Mariah wrote the only one. Mariah wrote All for Christmas.

And that was the biggest Christmas song in 70 years. And like people put some respect on their names. I'm sorry, man. - They are the possibility model for so many black artists coming up today on how to switch genres, how to blaze new trails. And all of these women that you've been talking about

you go to Tina Turner, you go to Mariah Carey, there's like this long line of black women who have done well in rock, done well in pop, done well in R&B. And you know, this makes me excited for these rumors about Beyonce, who is kind of a culmination of all these women's careers. Like she definitely arrives on their shoulders because if she's going to drop or whatever, a country album, whatever these rumors are, whatever's coming, I just say that's part of a long tradition of black women reinventing and bringing energy to new genres. And Mariah Carey and Janet did it. Yeah.

Exactly. Yeah. And just to close the loop on that, speaking about how these artists can be shapeshifted because they're that good. While she was recording Butterfly and going through this. Oh, yeah. Grunge. She secretly recorded a grunge album.

Because she said at the time, all these, the white girls are doing little grunge pop. And she's like, I wanted to try it too. So just as a side project, she made a whole grunge album and it sat in a vault for 20 years. And now she's like, ah, I might release it. So stay tuned, Lance. There's more Mariah coming. I'm ready for it. It's funny. I, you know, sometimes when someone's like, I haven't heard that album, you're tempted to be like, how dare you? What do you mean you have? But actually I am, I mean, I'm excited for us that we get to revisit the

And celebrate these albums that we've grown up with. But if you haven't listened to these albums, I am genuinely so excited for you. Because The Velvet Rope and Butterfly are just incredible. They're so good. And also, watch the videos. I think Janet's videos for The Velvet Rope are some of her best videos of her entire career. The video for Got Till It's Gone. The video for Go Deep.

the video for I Get Lonely. Like all that shit is good. Watch it, listen to it, love it, breathe it into you. Let it give you life. You deserve. You deserve. You deserve. Thank you, Janet. Mariah, Janet, we salute you both. Yes. We love y'all. We love y'all. Yes. All right. I feel good about that segment and just loving on those two. I feel good about that. We are going to take another quick break, but do not go anywhere. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

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Alright, my dears, we are back. And I gotta be honest, just talking about Mariah and Janet actually uplifted my mood. I'm feeling cuter. I'm feeling better. We're prepared for the world. But of course, before we end the show, we'd like to share something that is helping us keep our vibe right this week. Obviously, the albums by Mariah and Janet are part of that. But Zach, what else is helping you out? I'm so excited to share that the

The show Industry. Have y'all seen it on HBO? Oh, you know, I watched a couple of episodes of the first season. I started it. Those kids felt too sad. I was like, oh, these kids love Braylon. I was stressed because it's got the black, it's like the young black woman with all the firecrackers. She's in a bad place. She's in a bad place. She's in a dark place. Well, okay. Why I'm excited to bring this up is first season, not very good. It was meh. It was meh. Whatever. Whatever.

Lena Dunham's secretly a producer on this. And the thing about Lena Dunham, which we should do a whole episode on Lena Dunham, is like she has issues and she has her pluses and minuses. But the girl can write TV. The girl can write TV and she knows a good story. So she's been kind of like quietly underneath this for a bit, whatever. This season, I see Lena Dunham inside this.

Season two, way better. Incredible. Harper Stern played by Mahala Harold, who's in Bodies, Bodies, Bodies. Oh, yeah. Not a man with Steinberg. The other black girl for white people that don't know the difference. For white people that don't know who these people are. Not a man with Steinberg. But it just is...

So good. And the season finale is this week. And it is such an interesting conversation on power and sex. That's all I can say. Just watch it. It's a really interesting conversation on power and sex. All of my friends who I trust are like, watch this show. So I'm going to do it. Okay. I'll give it another go. I'll give it a go. What about you, Sam?

I have been obsessed with this R&B artist named Oji. O-G-I. She came up in the acapella scene at Northwestern University. But she has this EP out now that she says is channeling not Afropop, but like Ghanaian and Nigerian highlife music. But it really feels just like amazing neo-soul to me.

But there is this track on there called Envy that is already my favorite song of the year. It is like what grown folks R&B should sound like. This artist is so young, but her sound is so mature. The whole EP is great. It's just like, I want to say six songs, but...

but all of it's so good. Trust me on this. O G I O G. The EP is called monologues. The whole thing is spectacular. I'm going to force both of you to listen and report back like tomorrow. Cause you're going to love it. Okay. Okay. I, you know, this just, Sam, I, I believe you because as an honorary Chicagoan, I think all good music comes from Chicago in one way or the other. So even Evanston, even Evanston, the North shore can give you some good music. Um,

But no, that's so exciting. Cause I want to hear, cause I think of people like No Name, who's an amazing poet, rapper from Chicago, Jimmy LaWoods, amazing singer, also sometimes raps. Like Chicago, black women are really like holding, I think down this new soul space. And what's amazing is she made a name for herself

looping her own vocals to build these really harmonic covers of other people's music. She did a cover of a PJ Morton song where she layered like 12 tracks of her making these amazing harmonies. He liked it, shared it, and that's how she got a record deal. I love it. That's how she got it. I love to see that happening. I want to recommend a poetry collection. Shocker.

We'll allow it. We will allow it. Is that okay? Is that okay? I was worried. I was worried. It's the second book by a poet named Chin Chin. Chin Chin's on Twitter at Chin Chin Writes and is always so fun. I mean, you'll notice I've been holding back on the title because it is such a good title. Are you ready? The title of this poetry collection is, quote, Your Emergency Contact Has Experienced an Emergency.

Chin Chin is a queer Asian poet who writes poems about the tension of family, the afterlife of family.

A family when you have to distance yourself because of things like gender violence, homophobia, not being accepted, and have to create a new family for yourself. And I think even that title just alludes to that idea that when you've created this new life for yourself and something has happened that's kind of pulling you back in that tension. Woo!

But also, the poems are sexy, really funny. Chin Chin's work makes me giggle and blush pretty often, which, you know, you actually have to be pretty wild to make me blush. So I think that's saying something. But then also, there's just this tenderness and sensuality that I love in his writing. So check it out. Your Emergency Contact Has Experienced an Emergency by Chin Chin. Ooh!

It's naughty. I love that. I'm ready for it. Well, we will leave it there for this week, my dears. But we want to know, what are you feeling or not feeling this week? Is Mercury Retrograde coming for your wig? Is it just me? Is it just us? Let me know. Let me know. Let's check the astral vibes together. Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

We want to thank you for tuning into this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow Vibe Check on your favorite podcast, listening platform. You know, give us those five stars, tell a friend, guilt trip some white straight people into listening. You know how to do it. Huge thank you to our producer Chantel Holder, engineer Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for the theme music and sound design.

Special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And last but not least, thank you to Jared O'Connell and Amel Deskender for all of their help. And I'd be remiss if I didn't say one more time, thank you to Janet and Mariah. Oh, thank you. Amen. Amen. Amen.

And again, like Saeed said, we want to hear from you. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Twitter at at Zach Stafford, at The Ferocity, and at Sam Sanders. You can also use the hashtag, hashtag vibecheckpod. Also, follow us on TikTok because I'm following us and it still freaks me out every time I see us on at vibecheckpod. I don't know how... It is startling. It is a bizarre experience. It is a moment. All right, well, y'all stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Until then, bye.

Bye. Bye, y'all. Go stream the Velvet Row. Stitcher. What kind of day is it? It's a White Claw Day. Light and refreshing tasting. Uniquely cold-weight filtered. There's an iconic flavor for everyone. Come on, grab a pack. White Claw. Grab life by the claw. Please drink responsibly. Hearts also with flavor. White Claw's also works Chicago, Illinois.

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