Trump Says the US Should 'Take Over the Gaza Strip'
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It's Wednesday, February 5th. I'm Jane Koston, and this is What A Day, the show that liked reporting the news better when the world wasn't in total and complete chaos every single day. On today's show, President Trump drafts an executive order to dismantle the Department of Education, and the Proud Boys are humbled by a D.C. Superior Court judge. Let's start with Trump 2.0's foreign policy. And I'll admit, it's not the first time I've heard of it.

I don't really know what it is. Let's take those tariffs, for example. As we discussed in the show earlier this week, Trump threatened tariffs against Canada, Mexico, and China. He delayed tariffs against Canada and Mexico for at least the next 30 days, but the tariffs against China have gone into effect. In response, China announced Tuesday that it will place tariffs on American coal, gas, agricultural machinery, and large engine cars that will start next Monday. We're in a tariff war with China, in other words. But I keep coming back to one thing.

Trump has been all over the place as to what he thinks tariffs mean. Are they super awesome and how America got rich in the early 20th century? Or are they terrible and

and thus great negotiation tactics you don't actually want to use, like with Canada and Mexico. They can't be both. And that pretty much goes for how all of Trump's foreign policy works. He wants everything, in all the ways, all the time, and he really doesn't care who gets hurt in the process. He's destroying the United States Agency for International Development, or USAID, with the help of Elon Musk.

And on Tuesday, during a joint press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he said that he wants Palestinians to leave Gaza and then took it a step further. The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip and we will do a job with it too. We'll own it and be responsible for dismantling all of the dangerous unexploded bombs and other weapons on the site, level the site and get rid of the

destroyed buildings, level it out, create an economic development that will supply

Guys, are we Iraq warring again, but like weirder? This has all happened in just around two weeks. And if you're having a hard time keeping up, that makes two of us.

So to help me get a better understanding of all that's going on, I spoke with Ben Rhodes. He's the former deputy national security advisor to President Obama and co-host of Pod Save the World. He stopped by the studio to chat. Ben, welcome back to What Today. Happy to be here. So before Trump sat down with Netanyahu, he said Palestinians had, quote, no alternative but to leave Gaza because of the level of devastation there.

Can you explain why statements like these are so politically explosive? Because they are. Yes. Well, the Palestinians in Gaza, who should be the people who decide where they live, do not want to leave Gaza because they believe with a lot of justification that if they leave, they'll never be able to return home.

Because that's been the story of the Palestinian people, including the millions of Palestinians who are refugees in countries like Lebanon and Jordan today. So they don't want to leave. Also, the countries, Egypt and Jordan, that he's suggested could take Palestinian refugees from Gaza,

do not want to do so for different reasons. Both of them don't have a lot of resources, don't have a lot of money, don't have a lot of capacity to absorb up to 2 million people. So nobody wants this solution except Trump and probably almost certainly the Israeli right wing, which wants to depopulate Gaza and settle it as Israeli territory.

So far, the temporary ceasefire has been holding. What roadblocks do you see ahead as we get closer to the end of the first six-week phase of the deal?

The roadblocks are that there's actually no mutual understanding about whether the ceasefire means an end to the war itself. Netanyahu has not been willing to say that this is the end of the war. It's just to get the hostages back. And his right wing very much does not want to see the end of the war. They want to be able to go back into Gaza, continue military operations. And

There's also the question of even if there's not a return to the scale of fighting and bombardment of Gaza we saw before, who administers Gaza? Who's in charge of Gaza? Who governs Gaza? Israel would like to have full control over Gaza's security, and Palestinians obviously don't want that. So the medium and long-term questions are totally unresolved. The question is, can we get through these hostage releases, prisoner exchanges, and

before things unravel? Or will there be some later kick the can fight over what comes next? Moving on to the tariff showdown from this week, I was struck by how both Canada and Mexico didn't really have to do anything. Like Mexico sent troops to the border in 2019, and Canada announced in December their plans for a $1.3 billion border security bill.

Why do you think Trump ultimately paused his plans to impose 25% tariffs on goods from Mexico and Canada when he didn't really get anything anyway? I think that it was a combination of the fact that thus far, and this could change, you know, uh,

A lot of this noise around tariffs seems to be about winning news cycles in the United States. I think the other piece of this is there was a negative stock market reaction, as one would expect there to be, to the imposition of a massive amount of tariffs. Maybe he didn't want to take that hit to the stock market, which he seems to care about a bit. But we just don't know. This could come back up again in 30 days.

And I'll tell you, the strangest thing to me about all this is it's unusual to begin with to threaten tariffs for kind of non-economic reasons, right? So in this case, migration and fentanyl are reasons he keeps coming back to. But even in that framing, I can at least—

see what he's asking, I guess, Mexico to do, you know, do more to secure the border and stop the flow of people and fentanyl across the border. Canada, there's no problem with that there. Right. And I think there are a couple of things that strike me about this. And one is that he seems to be at cross purposes with himself. The writer Charles C.W. Cook made the point that he simultaneously seems to think that tariffs are amazing. They're super great. And that we were at our best when we had high tariffs against pretty much everybody.

Also, tariffs are clearly terrible so that they're a negotiation tactic that you wouldn't actually ever use. So do you think Trump will ultimately impose these tariffs or does he just want to use them as leverage because they're terrible and yet also amazing?

I think he will use the tariffs against China in the near term. China is a hugely consequential global economy in a way that Mexico and Canada aren't, and they've proven willing to kind of withstand a certain amount of economic pain to stand up to the United States. Whenever there's something that any country does that Trump doesn't like,

I think I would expect him to threaten tariffs. And that includes allies like Europe. The problem with this that people should understand is the rest of the world is going to adjust to this by trying to de-risk their own economies from the United States. In other words, they're going to start trading with each other instead of with us. Right. I think that goes to

We've been watching the public dismantling of the U.S. Agency for International Development. Can you explain what USAID does and what it means for the country's reputation abroad? Yeah, USAID is the global humanitarian and development organization for the U.S. government, spends up to $60 billion a year around the world. This matters in several ways.

Let's just start from the premise that all, you know, food and health assistance and emergency humanitarian assistance that the U.S. government provides is through USAID. If you have any kind of conscience, you know, you should expect that the richest, most powerful country in the world does something when there's a genocide in Sudan, does something when there's a famine somewhere. So, you know, you should care for humanitarian purposes, full stop. If you don't,

You should also care for self-interested purposes. So USCID is doing programming in places like Iraq and Syria as part of the counter-ISIS mission, right? You don't just...

take out ISIS, you try to build security forces, try to build institutions that can fill that space. Any counterterrorism mission the United States has, has a USAID component normally to try to bring about a modicum of stability. And then lastly, it's kind of like the tariff issue. China spends a significant amount of money on international development.

They build government buildings. They build roads. They build ports. They build infrastructure. They bring a lot that other people want. And the United States, usually through USAID, brings capacity. We're going to help you build your healthcare sector. We're going to help you figure out how to feed your people more efficiently. If we are out of the development business, absolutely, that void is going to be filled by China, by Russia, hopefully by Europe, I'd like to think. But if

If you're supplementing your dismantlement of USID with threats to seize the Panama Canal and calling people from Africa, whatever he's calling them now, they can't come here, canceling exchange programs. We're going through the most rapid decline I can think of through these steps that Trump has taken.

I think that that goes to my next question, which is that I've always really tried to work to break through what Trump says and think about what Trump does. But it's getting really hard when he keeps talking about making Canada the 51st state and demanding Denmark give Greenland to the U.S. and taking back the Panama Canal, as you mentioned. How should we be thinking about these kinds of comments? Because he

Because he keeps saying this. Look, I think that there's, in the hierarchy of Trump, there's the things he does, right? Like USAID, we just talked about. He's doing that. Then there are the things he repeats. I mean, I think this is kind of important. Like this Greenland and Panama fixation, there's been a repetition to it.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio's first trip was to Panama. He had a phone call with the prime minister of Denmark that all reporting suggests it was a very bad phone call and he was very threatening. So I do take the Greenland and to some extent Panama threats quite seriously because he's kind of acting on them. He seems to want to leave office with some new piece of America somewhere in the world. Canada,

That kind of feels more like trolling. I know we're only somehow two weeks into Trump's second term. But taken together, it's been interesting how...

Trump 2.0 seems far more maximalist on foreign policy than I expected. What do you think all this says about where foreign policy is going over the next four years? To me, I think America first has never been necessarily the isolationism that some people describe it as. And essentially, America is the world's largest rogue state. You know, I always used to think of that as somewhat of a problematic term, but it kind of applies in the sense that we're just a state that

is going to do whatever the hell we want. Ben, as always, thank you so much for joining me. Thanks. We'll see what the next two weeks hold. That was my conversation with Ben Rhodes, former Deputy National Security Advisor to President Obama and co-host of Crooked's Pod Save the World. We'll get to more of the news in a moment, but if you like the show, make sure to subscribe, leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts, watch us on YouTube, and share with your friends. More to come after some ads. Waterday is sponsored by Books.

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Now get 40% off select fashion jewelry. Visit jared.com slash radio for details. Here's what else we're following today. Headlines. The A's are 77, the A's are 23, and the nomination is confirmed.

On Tuesday, the Senate confirmed Doug Collins, President Trump's nominee for Secretary of Veterans Affairs, and Pam Bondi, his nominee for U.S. Attorney General. As of now, 11 of Trump's cabinet picks have been confirmed. Two of the president's other nominees inched closer to confirmation on Tuesday. The Senate Finance Committee voted to advance the nomination of Secretary of Health and Human Services nominee Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a man who believes that AIDS is caused by paupers. It isn't.

It was unclear if Kennedy had enough Republican support to pull it off. Republican Senator and committee member Bill Cassidy of Louisiana was one of many lawmakers who grilled Kennedy during his confirmation hearings last week. But

Cassidy ultimately threw support behind Kennedy. Things are also looking pretty good for Director of National Intelligence nominee Tulsi Gabbard. The Senate Intelligence Committee advanced her nomination on Tuesday. Two Republican senators on the committee initially said they were undecided on Gabbard after her contentious confirmation hearings last week, but they backed her in the end. The Senate will vote on whether or not to confirm Kennedy and Gabbard in the coming days.

The Trump administration is preparing to issue yet another extreme executive order that could dismantle the Department of Education. Fun! This was one of Trump's big campaign promises. And it should be noted that presidents can't just get rid of entire departments with the flick of a sharpie. They have to go through Congress.

But according to the Washington Post, this upcoming executive order seeks to significantly weaken the Department of Education. Employees from Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, are reportedly working within the agency to find ways to cut costs. This could mean shrinking the department's workforce or even eliminating federal scholarship programs that have anything to do with diversity, equity, and inclusion. It's unclear what that would leave Linda McMahon, Trump's nominee for Secretary of Education, to do if confirmed.

Her Senate confirmation hearings haven't been scheduled yet. The executive order is set to be introduced later this month. Elon Musk wants everyone in America to be at the mercy of Elon Musk.

On Tuesday, Senate Democrats sent a letter to the Government Accountability Office asking why the heck Elon Musk and his worker bees have access to the Treasury Department's payment systems. Senators Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts and Ron Wyden of Oregon asked the congressional watchdog for an investigation into Treasury Secretary Scott Besant. He reportedly gave Musk's Doge team access to the federal system last week. At a rally Tuesday, Warren laid it out pretty plainly.

has grabbed control of America's payment system. This is the system that makes sure that your grandpa gets his social security check on time. This is the system that makes sure that your mom's doctor gets Medicare exam. Elon Musk wants the power to turn that on, to turn that off.

The Treasury Department said in the letter Tuesday that Musk's team only has access to read the system. But Wired magazine reported that at least one member of the Doge team has administrative privileges on payment information. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries also introduced legislation to, quote, prevent unlawful meddling in the Treasury Department's payment systems and protect Americans across the country.

Democrats warn that Musk's unelected involvement in the federal government is unprecedented. The Proud Boys are on the market for a new name. On Monday, a D.C. Superior Court judge took control of the trademark and gave it to a black church that was vandalized in 2020 by members of the far-right group. Under the ruling, the group is barred from selling merchandise with the Proud Boys name unless given consent by the Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church. Finally, some consequences.

The group's so-called leader, Enrique Tarrio, said on Twitter that the judge should be impeached and the church's nonprofit status should be revoked. Tarrio wrote, quote, I hold in contempt any motions, judgments, and orders issued against me. In response, I wrote, I don't care. And that's the news. ♪

Before we go, if you enjoyed hearing Ben Rhodes on today's episode, check out his podcast, Pod Save the World. Every week, he and co-host Tommy Vitor break down the biggest international stories. And in today's episode, they're talking about USAID, the foreign aid agency Trump wants to shut down, and his land seizure controversy in South Africa. Listen to Pod Save the World every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

That's all for today. If you like the show, make sure you subscribe, leave a review, figure out a way to slow down the news cycle, and tell your friends to listen. And if you're into reading and not just about how seriously, let's just all take a few days off making news. I can finally get into my pie baking era. Like me. What A Day is also a nightly newsletter. Check it out and subscribe at crooked.com slash subscribe. I'm Jane Koston, and this is all a lot to take in.

Waterday is a production of Crooked Media. It's recorded and mixed by Desmond Taylor. Our associate producers are Raven Yamamoto and Emily Fore. Our producer is Michelle Alloy. We had production help today from Johanna Case, Joseph Dutra, Greg Walters, and Julia Clare. Our senior producer is Erica Morrison, and our executive producer is Adrienne Hill. Our theme music is by Colin Gillyard and Kashaka. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

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