Donald Trump, UFC and WWE: The love affair
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Are you ready? Welcome to What in the World WrestleMania 2025 edition. I've got a special guest to introduce you to for this one. Her name is Lola the Loyal. Come on in here.

All right, Lola's just come into the studio and she's dressed like a fighter for us. You've got the shorts on and you brought your own props. Thank you. You're like the perfect guest. In case you're wondering what is going on here, which I don't blame you for, by the way, we are talking about UFC and WWE and how Donald Trump fits into both of those worlds.

Okay, Lola the Loyal, who just made that dramatic wrestling-inspired entrance, is also known as Lola Schroer, and she's a reporter here at the BBC. Hey, Lola. Hello, I'm happy to be here. Okay, so I need you to help me out here. What is WWE? So, WWE stands for World Wrestling Entertainment, and these are wrestling matches which are scripted and choreographed. So, you're going to be watching a match

they already know who's going to win. Now, they are governed, though, by a set of rules. So the most common types of matches are singles, tag team and triple threat. And a wrestler wins by pinning their opponent to the mat for a three count. So one, two, three. You know, you see those moments like kipped off on social media. Exactly. You're out. And that kind of forces your opponent to submit.

But the most important thing to remember with WWE is that it is scripted. So whilst, yes, they are fighting and you do see cuts and blood and it is actually, you know, they are putting themselves through some real physical activity. They know who is going to win. Tables and chairs are flying around. People are going through tables and chairs. You've got rappers in the crowd. Great music. Yeah, it's part of the theatrics. It is. It's part of the theatrics and it's been...

It's now been something which has been on TV for so long that there are superstars in this world, like Dwayne The Rock Johnson, like Triple H, like John Cena. Those people have become movie stars as well as WWE stars. Tell me about UFC then. Okay, so UFC is separate from WWE. Whilst they are owned by the same parent company, Take A Group Holdings, the UFC is focused on mixed martial arts. So it's a promotion company around...

mixed martial arts. Now, there are other promotion companies, but arguably it is the biggest one. Now, its president and CEO is called Dana White. And now you might have heard of him, especially in the last kind of few months in the US election. He's very pally with Donald Trump. He often comes out in support of him.

WWE and UFC are both so insanely popular at the moment. Why is that? Why are they taking off? Well, they're only growing and growing in popularity. But the whole point of like WWE or UFC is that you are in a ring or an octagon with one other person. And at that point, it is that fighter's chance to win and prove themselves. If you fight someone in the street, you're going to get in trouble. But you can go and watch a fight and you can go and watch people, you know,

exercise that style of living legally and be involved and be with loads of people who are also into that thing. And this is Andrew. He is a UFC fan in the US. And we asked him why UFC appeals to him. So I've been watching the UFC for around 40 years now. And prior to that, I was interested in boxing, which I still am. And boxing is kind of what got me interested in the UFC.

I enjoy watching MMA and combat sports in general because I see it as like an absolute sport. You have to use every tool at your disposal. You don't have a team and the stakes are really, really high, which makes me respect the athletes that compete and makes it enjoyable to watch as well. So you really get a sense of the showmanship that's part of this and that's what the fans love so much as well. We've seen...

seen Donald Trump, incoming President Donald Trump at these matches, at these fights. How does he tie into this world? He has been friends with Dana White for over two decades and always

Likewise with the McMahons, he's been friends with them also for over two decades. And he's helped both of these companies actually put on live events. So back in, I believe it was the early 2000s, he put on one of the first ever UFC fights at his Taj Mahal casino in Las Vegas. UFC had a bad reputation. It was on the fringe of the sporting world.

but Donald Trump took a chance on Dana White and Dana White took a chance on Donald Trump because Donald Trump's Taj Mahal casino also wasn't doing very well at the time. So they helped each other out when they both needed to. They also both did reality TV shows and a UFC fighter went on Donald Trump's The Apprentice and then the ultimate fighter,

Dana White's reality TV show started after that. So, you know, they very much have mirrored each other's lives. I think they're cut from the same cloth. He also took part in a battle of the billionaires for WWE in the 2000s. So you look like this man is very much

embedded in these worlds. It's not only because he's friends with them, but when you watch Donald Trump talk about WWE or UFC, he actually seems really passionate about these worlds. I do genuinely believe he is a fan of these sports or these events. And he's actually used a lot of these kinds of events, especially the UFC ones, for major moments within the U.S. election.

Trump was trying to target young male votes and arguably going to a UFC fight or to a WWE event, you see a lot of young men in the crowd. And so if he's turning up at these fights or he's turning up at these events, those people are,

are going to be watching him and they're going to be looking at him and the way that he acts. So him coming out like a fighter, doing walkouts with a very kind of fighter-esque style. There's a bit of trash talking involved in this as well, isn't there? Exactly, exactly. I mean, you know, the world of politics has trash talking. Yeah, it does. Exactly. But I do think, you know, he very much embodies when he's doing UFC kind of walkout style.

the kind of fighter image. So you mentioned the McMahons, they're a really powerful part of the story, a powerful family. Tell me their story and I guess the controversies. There's controversy with this as well. Yeah. So the WWE actually used to be kind of done regionally. And then the person who was in charge of the New York area was Vince McMahon's father,

And then Vince McMahon, who we know now as kind of the face of WWE, apart from up until this year, he decided that, you know, this was something which was entertaining that people would be really into. Vince McMahon does have numerous allegations of sexual harassment and rape. He strongly denies any of these allegations, but he is no longer playing as

much of a prominent role in the WWE world. Trump first met Vince in 1980s New York when they were both incredibly successful businessmen. He's had several, as I've said before, WWE cameos over the year. He's even shaved Vince McMahon's hair before in the Battle of the Billionaires.

Alongside Vince McMahon was his wife who also founded WWE with him. Now she's not really involved as much anymore, but she is tipped to be education secretary for Donald Trump's second presidency. Yeah, you really get a sense of how Trump helps both these worlds, WWE and UFC, and the other way around as well. These two worlds benefit from Trump.

They do benefit from Trump. And I think an important part of this as well is the streaming and YouTube community. So figures like the Nelk Boys, figures like Aiden Ross, Logan Paul, Joe Rogan. Now, they are all very much part of Dana White's circle. And Dana White has really helped Donald Trump create strong relationships with these streamers. And he...

has helped Trump get onto these podcasts, which got millions and millions of views over the US election. And the target here, again, the target audience is young men, just like UFC fights, just like the WWE world. Here's Andrew again, the UFC fan you heard earlier. I do think that Trump's influence on like pop culture and his,

ability to infiltrate into kind of the Joe Rogan sphere as it's commonly referred to did help him with the youth vote specifically the youth mail vote. I don't know if UFC events specifically did. I don't think that you know

And there does seem to be a lot of overlap between Trump supporters and UFC fans. But I think that he's just catering to a crowd that already likes him for the most part when he goes to those events. So Lola, who else have you been talking to about UFC? Well, talking about fighting...

There is a woman on TikTok who is a UFC content creator and she's called Kennedy Louise. And she explained to me kind of the individualism mindset. Frankly, I don't think it's possible for the UFC and politics to not mix a little bit. There's a few reasons why the UFC tends to lean right. First being fighters focus on individualism, which is a more right trait over collectivism. Fighting is not a team sport. You enter into the ring on your own and you're also a contractor, which means that you are solely responsible for your own success.

And you spoke to some fans who

didn't want to see their sport getting caught up in politics as well, right? So this is Jordan. For me, seeing the UFC go from being a counterculture sports organization to now being in the global mainstream makes me very happy to say culturally, but politically currently in the future, I would just like to see the UFC not be used as a tool for any political candidate, regardless of party for a campaign trail. But in terms of the UFC being a political organization,

I think it's naive to think that any form of entertainment is inherently apolitical, but I'd rather would like the UFC to just emphasize it less in their broadcasts to not alienate fighters and fans with differing views.

So this is really smart on Donald Trump's behalf. Like he was able to tap into an electorate that he really needed to come to the polls, right? Yeah, I think he did tap into that electorate. And for some people, they absolutely loved it. Let's hear from another fan now. This is Max Gianni. I think Trump brings a lot of energy into the community. It's everybody loves to see Trump at a UFC card.

If you remember Madison Square Garden, when Trump arrived walking out with Kid Rocket, it went absolutely nuts. A lot of people enjoyed that. And I think it's just a really cool thing to see the president of the United States at the sporting events. Although I am a big UFC fan and it is something I'm very passionate about, I don't think...

my vote at the ballot had anything to do with that. What about the other side, WWE and UFC? They must gain something from it as well. It's big business. Look, let's focus again on Dana White because I really do think he's a key player here. He has entwined sports, culture and politics. And I don't think that is something which people can kind of like just oversee completely.

A lot of the time within the sports world, people are afraid to kind of talk about politics or take a stance. Dana White, when he first thought about going to speak at the RNC in 2016, he was told by lots of people, don't do it because UFC is apolitical and maybe some of your fan base might like Donald Trump, but maybe some won't. So you don't want to take a stance there.

He did his own thing and he went and supported his friend of over two decades. What happened? UFC only grew and grew and grew. There was no blowback. And I think that shows that Dana White knows his fan base and knows the people that watch UFC better than anyone else.

It sounds like a crazy world and we really got a sense of how they're all linked and will continue to be linked as well. We don't really see this relationship kind of cutting at any time soon. They all depend on each other. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm

My producer said I have to say we body slammed that episode. Oh yeah, we did. Apparently we body slammed that episode. I love that for us. Thanks for listening to What's in the World from the BBC World Service. I'm Ikra Farooq and we'll see you soon. Bye. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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Who are Thomas Jefferson University students? They're designers, healers, engineers, builders, and innovators. But mostly, they're in demand. By employers creating the jobs of tomorrow. When you're trained to never settle, but to keep asking why. And your education crosses disciplines. These different perspectives ignite new ideas and make the impossible possible. Jefferson. Redefine possible.