Shownotes Transcript
Hello, it's Hannah Gelbart here, back with another episode of What in the World from the BBC World Service. India has the world's biggest population and Pakistan is the fifth most populated country. And the two have got a complicated relationship, to say the least. They've largely seen each other as rivals since they got their independence from Britain in 1947.
Recently, tensions between the two have erupted, and over the past week, both sides have launched cross-border military strikes. It's over Kashmir, a Himalayan region which both India and Pakistan claim as theirs. Each administers part of it, and they've fought wars over it before.
With this latest flare-up, many are worried it could lead to another war and both sides have nuclear weapons. Now though, India and Pakistan have agreed to a ceasefire. So today I'm not going to be asking the questions. I'm going to be getting you the answers and bringing you what you need to know about the background to the India-Pakistan tensions over Kashmir. So let's get straight into it with our first question.
Where is Kashmir and who lives there? So Kashmir is a region to the north of India and Pakistan and it has around 15 million people living there. This is Farhat Javid, a BBC reporter. It's a beautiful valley nestled in the mountains, lush green. So I have come here quite often. I have always been, you know, mesmerised by the beauty this region has. But at the same time,
painful stories and the struggles that people go through whenever there is a conflict in this region. I think people who are living very close to these borders, they are the ones that suffer the most. Religion is also an important factor. India is predominantly Hindu, but Indian-administered Kashmir is more than 60% Muslim, and that makes it the only part of India where Muslims are the majority. Why is Kashmir important to India and Pakistan?
To answer this one, here's BBC correspondent Arunadhe Mukherjee. It's a long and troubled history that dates back to 1947 when Britain divided the territory it had ruled into Hindu-majority India and Muslim-majority Pakistan. Now at that time, Kashmir, which is to the north of both countries, beautiful surroundings,
big mountains, a big favorite with the tourists. So Kashmir was given a choice at that time: either accede to India or go to Pakistan. Now at that time, incidentally, the local ruler of Kashmir, who was a Hindu, initially wanted Kashmir to be independent and agreed to accede to India only for protection after a Pakistani tribal army attack. Now that's when a war broke out between the two newborn countries, the first one.
Now, over the years, the region continued to be disputed, triggering two wars and limited conflict between India and Pakistan. At the moment, there is a de facto border recognized internationally, dividing the disputed region into Indian and Pakistani-administered Kashmir, which is called the Line of Control.
So, as I said, Kashmir is partly run by India and partly by Pakistan, but it's claimed by both. Since the 1990s, armed separatist groups have been fighting against Indian rule in the region. Thousands of people have been killed. India has long claimed that these groups are backed by Pakistan, but Pakistan has always denied that.
Let's hear from Lise Doucette now. She's the BBC's chief international correspondent, talking about why Kashmir is such a big issue for India and Pakistan. Of all of the issues which divide India and Pakistan, and have divided them since partition in 1947, Kashmir is the most emotional of all. It runs very, very deep.
And now these passions are running at a very high level at a time where you have 24-hour news channels in both countries.
passionate commentators, many on both sides who would like to give a black eye to their neighbor. There was a moment where a young generation of Indians and Pakistanis, why is our past ambushing our future? Why can't we move on? Because what a great region it was. We trade, you know, you sometimes have cultural delegations, journalists, human rights activists, civil society goes back and forth trying to say, listen, we have more that unites us than divides us.
What do Kashmiris want? Back in 1948, the United Nations recommended holding a referendum so Kashmiris could vote on how they should be ruled. But India and Pakistan were never able to agree on how to demilitarise the region in order to hold a referendum.
Here's Lisa again. Time and again, decade after decade, the question has come up, what would Kashmiris really like to do? Would they like to be part of India or Pakistan? Or would they like to be independent? And to this day, they have never been given that choice. There was a moment when Paul said most Kashmiris would want to be independent.
Why is this all kicking off now? A few weeks ago, on the 22nd of April, 26 people were killed in a militant attack that took place on a mountaintop meadow near the resort town of Poholgam in Indian-administered Kashmir.
And our top story today reflects on a major manhunt which is underway in northern India after an attack killed dozens of tourists. Many wounded people are still in a critical condition after gunmen opened fire at a holiday hotspot yesterday. What we're seeing is that there's a shutdown across the region. Schools, businesses, shops, all have been closed down. This person who's joined protests against the attack is saying innocent people have been killed. An
India blamed Pakistan-based militants for the attack, but Pakistan has denied any involvement. India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi said India would, in quotes, punish every terrorist and their backers and pursue them to the ends of the earth. Do India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons? To answer this one, let's hear from Anbarasan Etirajan, our South Asia regional editor. The answer is yes.
The two nations are almost identical in terms of nuclear capabilities. India has about 172 nuclear warheads, while Pakistan is close behind with around 170.
And who's got the bigger army? India is a much bigger country, so it has about 1.4 million active troops in its defence forces. Nearly 1.2 million in the army, about 75,000 in the navy and about 150,000 in the air force. Pakistan's strength is thinner with about 700,000 troops, most of them in the army, about 70,000 in the air force and 30,000 in the navy.
And as far as the money is concerned, in 2024, India spent around $86 billion on defense and becoming Asia's second largest military spender after China and sixth globally. Whereas Pakistan's defense spending is about a tenth of its neighbor last year. And in terms of battle tanks, India scored about 4,200 tanks against Pakistan's 2,600 tanks.
And in terms of air power, India also has more aircraft, something like more than 2,000 aircraft compared with 1,400 of Pakistan's airports. But having more number of aircraft doesn't mean you have an aerial superiority.
Because Pakistan has got some modern weapons like the F-16s and the newly Chinese-made fighter planes and with the long-range missiles. And they can attack from a distance. They don't have to come closer to any Indian jets to fight. So they seem to be having an advanced weaponry than India's. India's got a lot of Russian-made weaponry like MiG-29s, MiG-21s and Sukhois.
and recently it acquired a Rafale state-of-the-art fighter jet from France. So India may be having a bigger number of aircraft, but doesn't mean they have air superiority over Pakistan.
There's lots of misinformation about what's going on in Kashmir on social media. Why is this? Here's Cheyenne Sardarizade from BBC Verify. Well, I would put that down to three main factors. I think the first one is what I usually refer to as engagement, farming and clout. And what I mean by that is we are now living in a world where most people consume their news online, particularly a major story like what's going on in Kashmir, a potential war or a conflict.
People rush online to get access to the latest information, potential videos, what's going on.
And that particular time, there are loads and loads of people on the internet who call themselves influencers who try to benefit from that sort of curiosity or concern that people have about what's going on in order to build up clout, get followers, get engagement, potentially in some cases on some platforms, make money off of it. And they start churning out all sorts of content, which is unverified and unclear and unconfirmed.
I think number two is confirmation bias. And, you know, when something like a war or a conflict happens, obviously people on either side feel really emotional about it. People want to say, you know, their side has been very successful, the other side has failed. And therefore they start pushing videos, images that they think confirms their own narrative.
And I think the third reason is probably to do with social media algorithms because they want to maximize content that is engaging, something that will get people's attention, something that will force people to stay on their platforms because obviously that's how they make money.
the algorithms tend to push content that is sort of outrageous, shocking. Obviously, a war or a conflict by its nature is shocking. But then people then go back to some videos of major explosions, some major videos from different wars, some videos that people have forgotten about that happened in the past, and they share them in the context of that breaking news situation. And obviously,
On the internet, you know, people are not necessarily following news every day. So they have short memories. They see that video and they see it's been shared by 10,000 people or it's been liked by 100,000 people and they assume it must be true. You know, just because it's viral, it doesn't mean it's true.
What impact has this had on young people in the region? The BBC has been hearing from people living in Kashmir. Irtiza is from Srinagar in the Indian-administered part. Life has always been uncertain when it comes to Kashmir. You never know today you'll go out for shopping and you might not come back.
As a Kashmiri, a moment of silence, a moment of peace, a moment of normalcy is always blissful. It is so mind-boggling for me. How do I ascertain myself to normalcy when every day, one day I'll be told that I am normal, I have the right to learn, I have the right to walk freely, move, entertain myself and the other day, I am part of a war. We want everything.
everybody to just let us be. We want to live, we want to laugh, we want to work, we want to play, we want to succeed. We don't want to be used as scapegoats anymore. We just want them to let us be. And Tamina lives in Muzaffarabad in Pakistani-administered Kashmir. India launched a sudden attack on Muzaffarabad and several other areas in Pakistan, leaving us in a state of panic.
My family and I were forced to flee our home immediately to save our lives. I am deeply concerned about the safety of my loved ones, especially my parents, with whom I live. We have taken precautions by packing our bags and stocking up on essential supplies in case we need to evacuate our home at short notice. We are all experiencing immense mental distress and the lack of peace is taking a toll on us. All we want is peace.
peace and end to the violence. We don't want to see any more human life being lost or wasted, whether in Pakistan, India or anywhere else. We yearn for a peaceful resolution to this crisis where everyone can live without fear of attack or violence.
You can get the latest on this story and the ceasefire on the BBC News website. Thank you for joining us. We hope you now have a better idea of the issues at the centre of this dispute. I'm Hannah Gelbart. You've been listening to What In The World from the BBC World Service. And we'll see you next time. Bye.