Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
This is What Now? with Trevor Noah.
Lululemon's new campaign features Odell Beckham Jr. and DK Metcalf in their buttery soft, breathable, restorative wear. Designed to keep up or kick back with you. Visit lululemon.com for everything you need to bring it tomorrow. Rest day is the best day. Happy Janelle Monáe Day, everybody. Happy Janelle Monáe Day.
I think it's also important to acknowledge something. Josh, you have an announcement, don't you? I mean, it's why you're here today on the podcast. This is the part where you're supposed to say, I'm hosting the... Come on, Josh, you're killing me here. My bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't know we were starting. That's my bad. This is the whole... Come on, Josh. This was supposed to be like a seamless introduction to me. Then you go like, oh, you're hosting the Grammys. Hey, hey, hey.
Congratulations. Now I've said it, Josh. I've said it. I'm hosting the Grammys. No, no, no, no. We can do it again. We can do it again. No, we can't do it again, Josh. We've lost all of the... It's like we've walked into a birthday party surprise thing and then you left the lights on. Everyone was just sitting around the couches.
It's gone. The moment is gone, Josh. Yes, I will be hosting the Grammys. And I'm very happy for you. They asked me, they're like, who do you bring on the podcast to be your hype man? I was like, my boy, Josh. If there's one person who knows how to hype you up, it's Josh Johnson. Oh boy, the hype beast.
You're looking great today. Thank you so much. I'm excited about that. It's a lot of fun. Are you really excited or are you contractually obligated to say that you're excited? I don't have to say anything about the Grammys that is good or bad. Like nothing. I enjoy the Grammys because I get to watch the show in person and then just experience and comment on it in person while it is happening. I'll be honest. And I know that the producers of the Grammys won't like this.
I like it when something goes off the rails at the Grammys because I'm experiencing it firsthand with the, because normally I'd be at home tweeting it like, oh, now I get to be in the audience being like, oh, like it's live and it's happening. I like, the producers do not like this. They do not want anything bad to happen. Neither do I, by the way. I do not want anything bad to happen. But should the thing happen, there is a part of me
That just, it just skips a little bit. Like there was a moment at last year's Grammys where Sam Smith performed their song. And then there were a few people in the audience who were of a certain age. You should have seen their faces when the devil imagery came up.
And I could feel an energy in the room where you could feel people were like, "Hmm, this is Satan in the room with us." I was like, "Oh, this is tasty." It was palpable. And then there was another moment when Beyonce hadn't arrived yet and people were starting to whisper that Beyonce wasn't actually coming and it wasn't real. And I could feel that energy building up both online and in person.
And I literally came and I was like, yo, Beyonce's definitely coming. This is not a scam. She's on her way. She's in traffic. And you could see some people were like, how dare you? How dare you suggest that the queen could be involved and embroiled in something so peasant-like? She would never be in traffic. She is merely surrounded by unknowing fans. It was so amazing. So I actually...
I'm excited for that, Christiana. Yeah. Now I was wondering, because you've done it, you've done it a few years now and sometime. I'm like, at what point does it start to feel like work? Like, is it still like, it's the Grammys, you know, like the biggest music show in the world? Or is it like, we have to do the Grammys? Honestly, I think it's like the best concert ever.
And it's how I get introduced to country music that I go on to love for the remainder of the year. And it's got a great host this year, Trevor Noah. Oh man, Josh, wow. Man, you didn't have to. It's an interesting time in music. You know, anytime there's an award or there's a conversation around music, it is both the most joyous conversation and then the most fraught conversation. Because music is like all art, it's subjective.
But then people are really objective about their opinions on the art. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I would rather talk about like the Middle East and the Barb versus Cardi B. Honestly, like I will not discuss Nicki Minaj. They are scarier than anything else. Did you see this like week that's gone by? Somebody wrote, I think it was a Vulture article reviewing Beyonce's Renaissance film. Yes. And...
They got the wrath of a thousand gods on them. And then literally I saw them and a few other music journalists posting, this is why music journalism is no longer worth it. We do not get paid enough, nor do we get enough mental therapy and support to handle what the stands. Because, you know, let me tell you something. I remember even when I was on The Daily Show,
The producers would say, you might remember this, Christiana, and Josh as well. They would say to us, they'd be like, hey, if you are going to say something about Taylor Swift or about BTS or about Beyonce, or like they would go, please, please.
please be ready for what's about to happen. It was such a stark warning. You were like, this is music, right? They're like, no. Please prepare yourself. Our servers will shut down. Our social media will crash. Please prepare yourself. I remember once I wasn't even making a joke about BTS. I had nothing negative to, but the people were like, yeah, but you said BTS. And then you said something that seemed like you were making a joke about them. I was like, but I wasn't. They're like, it's not worth it, Trevor.
It's not worth it. Yeah, it's like all of music has become YSL, where it's like, no, it's not just music. All right. It is a full on gang. They are dangerous. Yeah, I'm afraid of them. It's just like, and they seem to have a lot of time. Yeah. They have the time. They have the passion. They'll find where you live. No, no.
I mean, I wanted, you know, it's funny, Christian, I was wondering what you would what you were thinking of the Beyonce thing. I think it was particularly harsh. Yeah. Because the review of Beyonce's Renaissance film
The gist of it was, Beyonce says that this film is a bomb that aims to soothe us. And I'm paraphrasing here, but it's like aims to soothe us because of all the bad things that have happened or everything we've gone through recently. And then it's like, but this film is not revolutionary. It is broad liberal pablum that seeks to, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, first of all,
If Beyonce's even said it is a balm, she hasn't said it's a cure. Why are you angry with her? Yeah. You know what I mean? If somebody says this is a balm or a cream, it's a gel that just like helps your skin when your sun burnt. Why are you not like, this person didn't stop the sun from burning. It was so angry at Beyonce. Yeah.
for not, I guess, making a Malcolm X album or something? Yeah. I'll tell you my opinion. I do like a scathing review because I think people are afraid to do them now. Everyone's too nice. So I do respect her for being scathing. I think we should bring that back. That tradition of artists making something and you're being afraid of the review because then maybe people would make better art. Yeah.
Right. But then in that sense, I think it was like an overcorrection because no one is able to critique Beyonce. Like now we have these like figures, whether it's like a Taylor Swift or Beyonce or BTS, and it's like you can't critique them. And I think that's ridiculous. And I think she was maybe overcorrecting a bit because, you know, some of the things she mentioned was like COVID-19. I was like, well, what's that got to do with Beyonce? I think cultural criticism at its best can make
art better, it makes the artist better. And you come away from it feeling a bit informed. But do we still need it? And here's why I say this. Yes, yes. Let me explain why. I love criticism. Wait, but let me explain. So, okay, here's my thing. Here's the only reason I ask, is it necessary? Do we still need critique in that way when every single consumer now has a voice and a platform? Because look at what I'm saying. Back in the day, the reason you needed a critic in that way is because...
One, you couldn't afford to just buy the album and try it out. So back in the day, it was going to be a huge chunk of your money to listen to this album. And so you needed somebody to wade into the waters of this new product, whether it was a film or whether it was a music album, so that they could give you an idea of what to expect and whether or not you should listen to it. That's the first thing. And secondly, you had no platform to critique it. But I don't know. Sometimes I think to myself,
We're now living in an age where everybody, every single one of, let's say, my fans, supporters, anyone who comes to my shows as Trevor, they can critique it themselves. Then I'm like, wait, so why does this one person get an outsized platform to critique it more than anyone else? Because I actually believe in expertise.
I believe there are some people who are more positioned to engage in art and critique it than others. All opinions aren't equal. - Wow. - No, but there's certain things that like- - Yeah, talk to them. - No, but they're like, I can see a painting and I'm like, I can be like, it's all right. I don't know.
about art. Do you know what I mean? But like, maybe we should listen to the art historian and hear what they have to say and they can place it in a broader cultural context. Trevor, criticism matters. To what Christiane is saying and what I also feel, I think a review and the institutions around any art, right? So for music, it's both like music magazines that have a legacy and Grammys and awards. And then for comedy, it's usually like
the JFL award of comic of the year. Like we have less of that stuff. But I think that it does set a sort of Overton window and it takes the temperature at the time. And then the backlash to or from that is what leads us to the next thing. So when everyone is talking, I get that everyone has a voice, but when everyone's talking about everything all the time, it's all noise. I would actually like a review of my work
debt is from a publication that is too harsh. So then there's somebody to be like, it wasn't that bad. No, look, you know what, you know what, to your point, yes. I think I agree with some of what Christiana is saying. I agree with some of what you're saying. Maybe that's what I like about Janelle Monae is she's an artist who has existed for
in a world where she is both, it seems, a darling of the critics and of her fans. Like she's always pushing the envelope of what her music should be, what it should stand for, what the messages are, what she's trying to portray. And then there are moments where
you know, to use your phrase, Josh, the Overton window, she shifts it. She shifts it into a place that sometimes even her fans aren't comfortable with. For instance, in her newest album, you know, for those who don't know, Janelle Monae kicked off her career
as this self-proclaimed androgynous android. And the way she dressed in her music videos and the way she performed, you know, she was in these suits and there were these Technicolor ideas and it was really vibrant, but it was also very futuristic.
And people were like, oh, what is this? And she's like, yeah, I'm not a female artist. I am an androgynous AI. And it was new and it was different and it was all about technology and it was still a black woman performing, which was phenomenal. But in her latest album, in a differently radical way, Janelle Monae is, she's showing skin and she's with like,
beautiful women by a pool and it's all different shapes and different bodies and they're exploring each other. And then some of her fans I saw were like, this is not Janelle Monáe. This is not the artist. This is not what I signed up for. I signed up for the woman who wears suits and doesn't show her body. And Janelle's like, yeah, but all of this is an expression of who I am. And so what I like about her is that Janelle Monáe seems to operate in a space where she either
is immune from the criticism and critique, or she is her own biggest critic who moves her music and her art forward. All right, I'm going to jump in with Janelle, y'all. This was a lot of fun. I'm excited. Two-time Grammy nominee just this year, Janelle Monae. Hi, Trevor. And what's going on? Long time no see.
Is it a long time? You know what's funny? It totally skipped my mind that we were going to see each other again for the interview. But I actually like this. You know why? Because I feel like I would have asked you all my questions in person and then I would have had to like try and repeat everything now. So this is good, actually. It's perfect. We'll pretend like we don't know each other.
I like that. I like that, actually. No, but I feel like I do know you. I feel like I do know you. And, you know, the more I get to know about you, I feel like I wish I had known you my entire life. You may be one of the most interesting human beings I've ever come across. And, you know, you see it in your music. You see it in your acting. And you see it when, you know, when you get to know Janelle Monae as a human being.
Before we get into all the projects, the one question I had for you is, how long does it take you to absorb the fact that you are nominated not just for multiple Grammys, but nominated for Album of the Year? Notoriously one of the hardest categories to be nominated for. No matter how many times I hear nominated for Album of the Year, it's still...
it hasn't sunk in that it's really, really true. I mean, the coolest thing about being in that category is not only am I being recognized for the work I've done, but everybody is being recognized from the producers to writers, to the features, to the whole community I wrote it with and who I wrote it for. And that's what makes it beautiful because it takes a lot
to give of yourself, to be vulnerable. And you have to have, for me, I need to have people I can trust around me. I have to trust your taste. I have to trust, you know, that I can not get it right the first time. And I'm in a good, good space to grow with you. And I got to have fun with you. You know, it has to be a family affair when I'm working on an album. And for
For all of us to be recognized in that category, in addition to being recognized in Best Progressive R&B Album, it's a dream. I'm just so thankful for everybody who's listened to the album, to The Age of Pleasure. It's interesting that you say it's a vulnerable process, because I agree with that completely. You know, I...
I always tell my team or the people that I work with, I say, we have no control over what this will be. We have no control over how this will turn out. But the one thing we can control is the people we make it with. Yeah, that's right. And I love that you say vulnerable because...
I can't even imagine how vulnerable making music is. And I feel like your music is exponentially more vulnerable, you know, age of pleasure. I love how you've been calling yourself a free ass motherfucker. That's what you've been saying in this era. And I'd love to know, do you feel free? And if yes, what do you think it was that previously made you feel like you weren't as free as you wanted to be?
I think after releasing this album, you know, I feel much lighter. You know, I'm floating. Not just in gratitude, but I'm floating in all of me. Does that make sense? Yeah, but why? Like, what about it? Is it the actual release of the album or is it because of the content? I think making this album was one of the most brave things that I could have done. Making it in the middle of a pandemic, you know,
Making anything in the middle of a pandemic is not easy, man. It's not easy. You know, I was forced to sit down and really, really go inward. And I said, let me make the most of that. What things haven't I gotten an opportunity to really grow and heal from? I had to peel back everything.
A lot of layers and grow some new skin, you know, and release some things that I might not have had time to do had I been running around in circles. And not even just in circles, but just work. Right. You know, I mean, you know, like I know when you are needed in the way that we're needed, sometimes we're telling the same stories.
You know, we don't have time to develop new ones. Yeah. Sometimes we're singing the same songs. We don't have the experiences, the new experiences to make new ones.
You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's funny. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got, it was Chris Rock when I was first starting out on The Daily Show. And at that time, I was working seven days a week. So I'd do The Daily Show for the week, and then I would jump on the road and I would do stand-up. And I was proud of myself. I would see Chris all the time. And one day, Chris said to me, he's like, how you doing, young man? And I said, I'm doing good, Chris. I'm working really hard. I work seven days a week. He said, seven days a week? Yeah.
seven days a week, you're going to be the worst comedian ever. And I was like, what? And he said something that stuck with me till this day. He said, don't forget, comedy is about what you experience when living life. If you're not living life, your comedy is
doesn't have life. And that stuck with me. And it resonates with what you're saying right now, right? It's like, as an artist, people take for granted that you're living and then you're translating those lived experiences into something that's so specific that strangely enough, it resonates with everything and everyone out there. Yeah. No, that is so true. Like artists need time to not do anything. Yeah. What would you say is the biggest thing you unlocked? Because
Anyone who's watched you or has seen your career unfold has probably been mesmerized by the way you've taken control, not just of how you shape your career, but how you define how you're seen. You know, I never take for granted how difficult it is as an artist. You've got so many people trying to define how you look, how you feel, who you are.
You know, to the point where someone could even say to you, oh, no, this isn't a Janelle Monáe song. This isn't a Janelle Monáe vibe. But you're somebody who's defined that from the very beginning. I mean, you know, you kick off your career and you're playing this androgynous AI character in suits. And it's powerful and it's beautiful and it evokes something completely different and futuristic now.
And then as you evolve, we start seeing different themes in your music and in the music videos. And you've always been a very visual musician, which I've always appreciated. Age of Pleasure is exactly that. It feels like you're stepping into pleasure. It feels like you're stepping into yourself.
Talk me through that. Like, what was the intention behind an album where there's a lot more skin, there's a lot more flesh, but it doesn't seem like it's about a lack of agency or... It's not like it's for the person's pleasure. It's almost that we get to observe you and your pleasure. I love that. I love that. I love this question. And I think...
As I reflect on my evolution and my earth experience, there's a quote by Bethann Hardison. She says, people don't change. They become more of who they are. And I think that's what I had the responsibility to myself to do.
And all of that seeps out into my art. You know, as I grow, you guys grow with me. Seeing, you know, black and brown people smiling, dancing, experiencing joy together and defining what pleasure means to us. I think that pleasure is a human right. Yes. For all of us. I think that even when we are fighting for our lives, for existence, for equality, I think that it's so important to have balance.
and take some time to, again, steal back our joy, reclaim our joy, reclaim our happiness, reclaim our power, and understand that we were not put on this earth to live out an imbalanced life. We deserve whole lives. And so for me, the age of pleasure is that moment where we have won. We have won internally. We have given ourselves permission to pause and say, okay,
We are not centering divisiveness. We are not centering those who don't see us, who don't think that we deserve life, don't think that we deserve equality. Those who want to continue to marginalize us and abuse their power. We're not centering them. How do you conduct the conversation with your fans and with people who almost want to keep you in the place that they maybe found you and fell in love with you? Mm-hmm.
I'm sure there are some people who go,
Janelle, I loved it when you were fully covered up and wearing suits and there was nothing in any way sexual about your image. And I'm sure there's some people who will say, oh, Janelle, I loved it when it really seemed like you were questioning everybody's sexuality and identity and opening that conversation. I like that period of you. And then there are others who are going to love you in this space and going like, damn girl, I'm loving you in the pool and just enjoying yourself and walking on a counter and you're wearing a bathing suit and you're looking great.
How do you conduct that conversation? You know, it's always a difficult one, I think, for artists. You know, even covered up, I was sexualized. People thought I was sexy. And there are people when I'm not in a suit who are attracted to me. And when I'm in a dress, they're attracted to me. And there are people when I'm in jeans, maybe once or twice a year, that are or are not attracted to me. Yeah.
And I think that people see themselves in certain parts of who I am. Some people really get their identity from some of their favorite artists. I was just like that. There were people that I loved growing up and I would dress like. But I think that what sometimes we do, just as human nature, is project. Sometimes we also see ourselves so much in somebody and it's like, oh, okay.
But if they change, am I supposed to change? No, no, no, no, no. Is this forcing me to have to re-examine all of the systems that have defined what masculinity looks like, what femininity looks like? You know, when I came out, I didn't even know, you know, what being non-binary was. So there was a part of me who was pushing to get outside of the gender norms and
and what's expected of me. And there were so many times where so many people tried to sort of lobby for me to look like this or look like that. And, you know, you could see that early on in my career that I was like, no, I'm honoring where I am. And so I think you have to just honor who you are and be okay. Be okay with people having those conversations. It doesn't bother me at all.
I love it. I think one of the best ways to honor where you are or who you are is to also be able to honor where you come from. And there is no separating your history from the South. And there is no separating the South from two very key elements, I find. And one of those is the history of oppression and slavery. And the other one is the relationship with religion. Mm-hmm.
Do you think coming up against the ideas of religion in some way, shape or form galvanized you and helped you come up against any ideas that you find just in the world? From very early on, it seems like you had to find how you maintain your relationship within religion and also define who Janelle is. What was that journey like for you?
I was always the naughty kid in church. When my pastor was preaching, I was having outbursts, singing every song from the radio. And...
In my own little world, you know, I remember this vividly, like three or four being escorted to children's church because I was just disrupting and disrupting certain systems where you have to be, you know, you were taught to be proper and prim and skirts below the knees. As I grew older, it was like, ooh, you needed to perform religion, you know, perform, you
Or church, I'll say, like sometimes religion and church kind of get intertwined. But the culture of church, the one I went to, you know, being Baptist, growing up in Kansas, you can look at the laws, you know, there you can look at the lawmakers, you can look at, you know, sort of the conservative nature of that place. But you were just taught to dim your light, you know, be quiet, don't ask questions, and
And this is what we do. And I always question. I'm always intrigued by people who grew up in a system where they were given the answers and yet still chose to question. I wonder, is it from a parent? Is it from the world? Is it something you saw? Is it something you read? I don't know. I mean, that is, I think it's a part of just my own destiny. Are you the most rebellious person in your family? If you asked my family, they would say, yeah.
I grew up with 49 first cousins, Trevor. Wait, I'm sorry, what? 49 first cousins. You heard it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. First, like first, first, first, 49? Yes. First, first, like, and I know all their names.
So my grandmother was a sharecropper in Aberdeen, Mississippi, and she had 14 brothers and sisters. Wow. You know, very, very poor. They shared one pair of shoes, and she would tell the story to go to school each and every day. They couldn't even afford shoes for everybody. And so she would wear her big brother's shoes, and they were so big on her feet. But just to get to school, you know, they had to do that. And she picked cotton and
She ended up, you know, leaving the very racist Aberdeen, Mississippi, then going to Kansas. And it's pretty, I didn't realize this until, you know, after she was gone. And then, you know, you have some of the sisters and telling the family secrets. And you're like, wow, that really happened. So my grandmother was in one of those sort of color purplish kind of families. Yeah. From what I was told. Her father basically died.
wanted some land from this man and said, I have a daughter. Wow. Yes. I will trade you my daughter for this land and trade you in like, you can make a family with her. She'll have your kids. Wow. And so my grandmother actually had two kids by this man in Mississippi. And her sisters helped her do it. Her sisters helped her leave. And they raised the two daughters while my grandmother settled in Kansas City.
And that's when she met my grandfather. And they had 10 kids together. And so she had a total of 12 kids. Wow. Yeah. I was hurt when I found that out. Yeah. And I just, my grandmother is the strongest person that I know in my family. Wow. The way that she has forgiven, I don't know if I could, I don't know. I don't know how I could do it. Wow. But, you know, I actually think that.
I actually think you have her forgiveness gene in you. I think, you know, I look at your story with your father. One of the things I connected with you on is the relationship you've had with a parent who has struggled with addiction, you know, and it is unfortunate how many people have actually had that experience. And there are many different outcomes, by the way, I think, you know, to
to try and put into one box minimizes what it actually is. I think addiction has many different sides to it, but you've shared and you've talked about how your dad struggled with drug addiction and at some point he was incarcerated and that was a strain on your relationship. But
But on the other side of it, you've maintained a connection. You've worked to understand the human being. I've always wanted to know if that's shaped how you see the world around you. You're a fierce advocate for prison reform. You're an advocate for how we treat people who struggle with addiction, how we decriminalize or refine the conversations around
That journey for me requires patience. It requires fortitude. It requires transformation time and time again. What do you think you learned from that relationship with your dad? And what are you constantly trying to learn? You know, in addition to my grandmother, you know, for her era and being the matriarch of my family, my father, you know, my stepfather and my mother are three of the most strong people I know as well. They grew up in that crack epidemic where you were either selling it
you were smoking it, or sometimes you were doing both. And so at different points, my parents all struggled with drug addiction. Some of them, it was just a few months or less than a year. Some of them, it was years. And my father, it was almost 18 years for him. In and out of prison. So imagine what that does to your mind. And if you talk to my dad today,
you would be like, you are a miracle. He's...
written a book. He is completely sober. He's the life of the party. That's beautiful. That's amazing. He's so cool. He and I have smoked cigars together. That was beautiful. You know, he calls me, he gives me so much advice and, you know, really, really lifts me up. And it went from our relationship being very inconsistent and me being very upset and mad at him to now I understand that
that he was just sick. You know, the concept of therapy, you know, for that generation was like, what are you talking about? That's, I mean, that's a foreign concept. That's a foreign concept, right? Like, you know, all of this should be free for our people and for Americans. And
And so for my dad not to have the proper tools to deal with his anxiety, to deal with his depression, to deal with whatever mental health crisis he was going through, you know, and he didn't have his dad in his life. I understood why he turned to drugs. I did not get it, but I understood it. And so...
You know, I think we have to look at our parents as humans and not just like, well, that's my dad and he's supposed to do this or do that. Me and my father have a human to human connection. When I came out to him, he was like, man, I love you. I love you for you. And whatever journey you going on, I'm going on with you. Oh, that's beautiful.
I've learned it is almost impossible to see your parent as a human if you do not forgive them for what you experienced with them as a parent. Absolutely. You know, forgiveness is the key that unlocks that moment with them. And for many people, I think they don't get that release until their parent has died, unfortunately. You know, that becomes the first time they now see them as a human. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now? after this.
I grew up in South Africa at a time when, you know, not only were we, I mean, exploring the very genesis of a democracy,
I think a lot of the African community that I grew up in was grappling with the ideas of sexuality in an open way. We had been induced into a deep religious, very similar to Americans, you know, Black Americans particularly, religion had become this blanket that covered everything and it extinguished anything that wasn't seen as pure. And
One of the things I look at is the difficulty of having conversations around any type of queerness in the Black community. And there's no separating it from the history of how it was used sometimes as a tool to subjugate people. Yeah. You know, whether it was slave masters purposely sodomizing people or, you know, in some way, shape or form, trying to take away their humanity and their pride. Absolutely. There is no denying that Janelle Monae, not just as a human being, but as an artist, has
is somebody who has created a space for these conversations to exist within now. You know, people speak about their sexuality in a different way, partially because of you. There are many young people, there are many Black people who would have never engaged in some of these conversations. You know, just how freely you move between them saying like, oh, I thought I was bisexual. And then you talk about reading and defining your sexuality.
I would love to know why you feel that's so important to you and when you felt like I need to explore this conversation publicly as well for other people. Yeah. Well, you know, that's not anything that I take lightly. And I didn't realize by me speaking my truth how many people, you know, would see themselves in it. Oh, wow. I didn't. I thought it was just going to be over.
you know, in terms of my family support, the people who were buying my art. You know, I knew I would have, I knew I had community around me, you know, that made me feel empowered enough to allow my truth and my evolution to seep into my art. ♪ They said I was bi, yeah baby ♪
You know, and it didn't come with everybody embracing me. There were some people who were just like, I used to be a fan. What is this agenda she's pushing? This agenda. As though I'm the first queer, you know, pansexual person to ever exist. And I think that is the reason why it was important. Because people need to know this is not new. Queer folks are
queer identity, members of the LGBTQIA+ communities existed centuries ago, you know, since the beginning of time. Right. And slowly, year by year, decade by decade, segregation by segregation. Yeah. Oppression by oppression, ostracization by ostracization. Yeah, I'm totally with you. All of it, yeah. All of that took away our ancestors' identities.
you know, from Africa to America. And it created a false narrative that somehow people believed in. But for me, I was just like, we have to unlearn. We have to unlearn the misinformation that we were taught, that there's something wrong with us for embracing our queerness and that there's only one way to love.
And so for me, it was like, I guess I needed to let that community that I grew, you know, in Kansas and Kansas know like, hey, you know, when you were in church saying that all gay people are going to hell and, and you shamed me and, and, you know, I'm taking back my power. Wow.
I denounce those words and not just for myself, for everybody in Kansas, every young person in Kansas that is being told that their existence is an abomination. I denounce that. I rebuke that. So that it was a personal thing for me. And it was important. And I'm so happy that I did it. I felt freer. I think art has freed me in ways that I never could imagine. I never could imagine.
That's beautiful because oftentimes we'll think about art freeing the listeners. You know, we think about how many people's lives get changed. Every single person can say, oh man, that album, that album changed how I saw myself, how I saw the world, how I saw love, how I saw relationships. But you don't often think about the artist being affected by their own art in the same way, you know, unlocking themselves with the same key. I've always wanted to know
how much your relationship with Prince has shaped how you see that. You know, every time I think of a...
gender defying and, you know, genre defying idea. Prince always comes to mind. I remember when I, when I met Prince, it was a really surreal experience. It was in New York. He was launching his book actually. And we were at this event. I mean, I was just in the general crowd. I had no clue idea or even belief that I, that I would meet Prince.
And someone called me and said, hey, Prince would like to speak to you. And I was like, well, clearly they called the wrong person. He was so chill and he was funny and he knew my work and he really kept in touch with everything around him, which almost went against the enigma that people had shrouded him in.
And what I loved was how honest he was in the big and small things. Because somebody came up and tried to grab a selfie. And he said to the person, he said, no, no, no. Hey, hey, hey. He said, no, no, no selfie, no selfie. Just chill, man. Just chill. And he was nice to them. And he said, how are you? And talked to them for a bit. And then they walked away. And I said, oh, why no selfie? Is it because you want to maintain the... Is it because you hate cameras? Is it because... I was thinking of this deep thing. And he said, no. He said, sometimes I don't like how my chin looks in other people's pictures. Yeah.
And we laughed so hard. And then we got into conversations about identity and about how you're perceived and how you see yourself and how you get to shape that. And I wondered how much he shaped or unlocked in you. Yeah. Because there's no denying that some of your DNA has in some way been touched by his. And then you've gone on to create, as you say, more of you with everybody that has touched your life. No doubt. No doubt. I feel like I was in the room with you.
When when he was saying these things, because every. Yeah. I mean, I love that you got to experience that side of him. So did I. I got to experience a like a real laid back, never letting his mystery get in the way of like mentorship and real human to human conversations. And, you know, I was a fan. Actually, Prince, I was scared of Prince.
Growing up. Everybody was, I feel like. Prince and Grace Jones scared me. I don't know if it was because of, you know, my own religious upbringings. But when I like would look on MTV and see older videos of Prince, it was something about his eyes and the way he moved. And I remember I had a dream that he was chasing me. Wow. I will never forget in a purple suit down the street, right in front of my grandmother's house. And I still remember it.
And I was like, oh, my God, leave me alone. And to fast forward and him be one of my best friends and someone who really, really, really believed in me, like somebody who would send me emails. And, you know, I remember particularly he sent me an email that said, you know, Janelle Monae.
His voice doesn't get talked about enough. She can literally sing anything from jazz to opera to R&B. She raps. And this was at a time where I just felt like I needed to, you know, I was just I was really in my head about I don't feel like I fit anywhere. You know, I don't fit in anything else.
Just, I don't. It's the curse of being versatile, right? I guess. I guess so. Because it's like, you don't have a lot of people who have come before you who have done multiple things and moved with their heart and their spirit and...
and all of that. But anyway, I remember him sending me that and I just felt so affirmed because this is also somebody who can do it all. You know, from acting to world building, Purple Rain. Like when I did Dirty Computer, I was absolutely thinking about Purple Rain. Who hasn't, you know, used that time in music as a North Star? Who hasn't been inspired by Prince? And even with Wonderland, my own arts collective, like seeing what he did with Paisley Park,
And New Power Generation, I mean, this is somebody who understood the power of community, that it wasn't just about him. And so, yeah, he's impacted my life personally. He's talked to me about the business. He's fought for artists' rights in the business.
And my thing is I look at it like I went to church. Look at us talking about church. And I honestly had not been to church in a while. And I heard a pastor talking and he said how he had to travel through snow. And you know, the snow leaves those prints, especially when it's large, big, big, big inches of snow. Yep.
And it makes it easier when somebody has walked in that snow before you because you can put your feet where they've put theirs. Yeah, I love that. And that is the best way that I can describe Prince. I've been able to put my feet in the footprints of him. And I've carved, obviously, my own along the way. I've taken different paths. But I think that is the best way to sum up how Prince has inspired me.
We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break. I'm not the first person to tell you this, but you're phenomenal on screen. You have this uncanny ability to move between genres, even in acting. You know, there are some of the funniest moments in some of the movies that you're in, and then others will be really hard and really deep and powerful.
What do you think it is about acting that connects you? How has Janelle found herself again in a completely different space? You know, I try to take on roles that allow me to get into the spirit of a character.
And if I can crack the spirit and embody that spirit and reduce, you know, Janelle Monae, you know, the singer or that people may know or the performer on stage and allow myself to go outside of my own limitations of who I can be. That is when I feel like I'm in the pocket, like I'm making the magic. And I think transforming that.
is just sexy to me. Being able to transform myself into the spirit of somebody else's spirit and channel their spirit. And that's what I always ask for every time I show up on set is, how can the spirit lead? And so I try to pick roles where I feel like the spirits are important. Like, oh, we need that spirit. And with acting, you got to know how to be still. So there is a difference.
With performing, I'm moving. I don't know if you've come to any of the concerts, but I'm moving. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, I'm moving. Showmanship is important. I am bringing energy. The people, though, are singing the songs back to you. So a lot of the performance isn't just you. It's not just about what I'm doing. It's about...
Am I connecting? Yeah. And it's that one time that you do it and then it's over. Like it's live. It's done. Yeah. With acting, with filming, it's going to be, it's going to live on a platform in a theater. You know, it'll be a... Which is terrifying. I find that terrifying to be honest. That's what I'm saying. So when you show up there, you got to make something. You have to really be able to, again, quiet down those moments of like,
High energy moving around because sometimes that doesn't translate well. And once I knew how to just get still and be quiet, that's when the spirit started to come out. And it wasn't about let me play to the back of the audience. You know, everybody has to feel me. Like it's a different muscle.
And I'll also say, you know, when I did Glass Onion, I asked Rian Johnson, I was like, "Why did you pick me for this role?" My life was taken away from me by someone, by everyone in this room. My life! Do you even know what that means? And this is spoiler alert if you haven't seen it. I play multiple characters.
And it was so much fun. But I really wanted to know, like, why did you pick me? I thought I could do it in my spirit, in my heart. I was like, I can do this. It's going to be a lot of fucking work, but I can do it. And he said, you know, one of the things that I liked about you and I felt like you'd be perfect for this role for is the fact that you know how to go in and out of character when you're on stage. And I watched Dirty Computer. I watched your film that you put out with your album. And I was like, this role is going to require her.
to seamlessly, just like she goes from song to song, whether it's up-tempo, then ballad or mid-tempo. Yes, yes. This character has so many different layers and is going to be required to not be who she is, but play somebody pretending to be somebody else who is somebody else. So he said, I felt like you would understand that. So for me, it's just, it's fun. And it's about transformation, you know, allowing myself to see myself outside of who I can be.
Right. I would be remiss if I didn't talk to you about technology. I'll be honest with you. If there's one thing I truly love about Janelle Monae, when I think about it, I get so excited because I'm like, you and I share one thing and one thing above everything else. We love technology.
technology. We are obsessed. We are nerds in that space. We are, I mean, I can spend hours and hours engulfed in everything from robotics to AI to, and I know you share that passion. And it's a passion that I think is so important to highlight for a few reasons. One,
For a long time, people have made it seem like this area, you know, technology is a space that is reserved for a few, you know? And we forget. And that's why I love that you were in Hidden Figures because Black women were at the forefront of computers and computing and thinking about the future in so many ways that I think it's necessary and relevant that we get back to that place where everyone is involved in designing the future because then the future is designed for everyone.
And so I'd love to know, because I know you think about this, like, where do you see the role of AI in arts? And where do you see the role of AI in building the future? Leave it to you, Trevor, to always ask the mind boggling questions that... No, but I know you think about this. I mean, we don't have answers, but I know you think about this.
Right. I think about it all the time, especially as somebody who's done albums upon albums centering the android and paralleling the experience of the android, the other, to, you know, black and brown people, to, you know, working class poor folks, to the LGBTQ plus communities in those marginalized communities whose voices are not represented and amplified. And so...
As I see this all unfolding, and I was very inspired by Ray Kurzweil's The Singularity is Near, where he talks exactly about this moment we are having where you won't be able to differentiate a human voice from an Android voice, from a computer voice. And, you know, your mother saying to you, happy birthday, Janelle, I love you, from an actual, you know, AI saying it to you. Like it is, technology is moving, you know, at a double exponential rate.
And how it's like the 24th century bouncing down on the 20th century. It's so ahead, you know? And so we don't have the answers because it's moving so fast. And one or two things. So I think that AI is reflecting us. I think that AI is a reflection of humanity.
And when I used the Android, you know, and I paralleled it to the other and the other in today's society, who those people are, I said, when we are integrated with AI, when we're integrated with marginalized folks who are not the majority, how are we going to treat them? When you think back on history, how did we treat them? Because to somebody, Black people were tools. Right.
We were meant to serve. They use religion to back up their support or their point and brainwashing us, our ancestors, into believing like we are just servants. And you know what I'm saying? So in some cultures, you're going to find somebody to oppress and say, this is all you are good for. So I think that there has to be a look at this new normal because it's not going away. So how do we...
integrate and have a mature relationship with AI? How do we get people who are programming? Because I think the programming is every bit about the programmer. Oh, I like that. Yeah. So if you have people programming who are biased. Yeah, which everyone is. Right? Yeah. You may not know that you are biased. Yeah. When there's adversity in that room, then you're creating diversity.
for all of us. You're creating for not just some of us, and that's what we need. We have to get radical about the programmers. We have to get radical about who is in the rooms having these discussions on, you know, what is too much, what should be off limits, all of that. And these conversations around
you know, AIs to use our likeness even when we don't give permission. I think that has to absolutely be discussed. I think there has to be laws and regulations put in place for that. I think the compensation is absolutely a must. If you use my likeness, you should ask for permission and we should discuss what that fee is. I think all these things are discussion worthy. I don't think we should be fearful about anything except for the programmers,
capitalism and the lack of knowledge that we are getting about it in real time. Yeah. Not forgetting that it's a mirror of the people who have created it. Absolutely. In a roundabout way, it perfectly encapsulates Janelle Monáe. You are the mirror of everybody who has created you.
You have your grandmother, you have her sisters, you have your cousins, you have your parents, you have Prince, you have the people you've worked with, you have your fans, and what we've gotten to is at this moment in time, an artist who is transcendent, somebody who is constantly reshaping, redefining, recreating, and honestly, just all around inspiring.
And before I let you go, I guess I have one question for somebody who seems like she's already doing everything, but I'm sure is thinking about what next part of the everything to do. So Janelle Monáe, what now? You know, what now for...
a multiple Grammy-nominated artist going into this Grammys, and what now for somebody who is producing content, who is creating, who's making music? What now for Janelle Monáe? What's next? Yeah. I'm going to keep creating, keep telling stories. I think that's the one thing that when I think about AI,
And even when I was writing The Age of Pleasure, it was really rooted in human to human contact. And those experiences and those stories that you can't get, you can't make those up. You can't put it in chat GPT. These are real homegrown experiences that I want to keep having. And I want my art to reflect that. And I want to create it for communities that need it most.
I think that we're going into a big election year next year, which, I mean, it's already happening now. I think that we need artists. We need music. We need storytellers more than ever. Empathy is going to be like a key word. Listening is going to be a key word. Yeah, it's going to be in short supply. Yeah, like compassion, love.
showing up for each other, all of that is going to be so important. And I think the beautiful thing about art and music and storytelling is that it's able to do good work and last a lifetime. And so that's what I'm focused on now is how I can continue to add value to the world. Well, if I'm judging by your cost performance,
I can safely say that it's going to be special. It's going to be different. It's going to be amazing. And I can't wait to see what you create. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for being so good at what you do, because I think people forget, you know, without great art, there's no escape. There's no imagining. There's no seeing yourself in a space that you did not think was possible. And so I hope you never take for granted the fact that you are also now
creating those footsteps in the snow with everything that you're doing. And thank you for all you do. I can't leave here without saying how proud I am of you. Thank you. What you see in me, I see in you. Thank you, friend. I appreciate that. And I've always seen that. And I'm so excited about this chapter of your life. And I think that you have a very unique and powerful way and warm way of interviewing. It's not even interviewing. You know, this conversation felt, um,
Yeah, it felt like real gumbo. I love that. Real gumbo. Oh, I love that. Audio gumbo. Audio gumbo. I like that, actually. As somebody who is a huge fan of gumbo, you couldn't have given me a better compliment. So thank you. Absolutely. All right, my love. I'll talk to you later. Bye. Bye.
What Now With Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions, Fullwell 73, and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel Hapsis and Marina Henke. Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Braun. Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next week, this time on Tuesday instead of Thursday.
We'll see you then.