Fred Armisen
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There are people who both write and perform.

But it's rare to be equally great at both. And that's what Fred Armisen is. He's great at both, time and time again. I've so enjoyed watching him over the years, from his amazing 11-season run on SNL to co-creating hilarious shows like Portlandia, Documentary Now, and Moonbase 8. He is a multi-talented guy with a really interesting family background that you'll hear about in a minute. So let's get to it. Here's Fred Armisen.

I'm happy to see you again. Thanks for asking me to do this. Yeah, you too. Thank you for the nicety. You just took the time because I'm nervous. No, I can't. I don't know you as nervous at all. You know. This is you. Every time I see you in public at these events, you have really good posture and you're just friendly to everyone. Everyone seems to know you. Oh, yeah. Everybody knows your name. But like there's like

You never do you seem like you have anxiety. To me, you seem to be saying, this is where I'm meant to be. Nice. Yeah. That's what it feels like. I'm going to keep that phrase in my head the next time I go in public. Are you an anxious person? No. No. That's funny. Yeah. You look like you should be an anxious person and you're not. No, I don't really have anxiety. Yeah.

With social things and performance and stuff like that. Your life. My life, yeah. Yeah. I'm, I kind of, although, I mean, I'm a little bit of a loner. Like I do like alone time. I do like, you know, I don't really go out, like I don't seek out parties and stuff like that. I'm not like that social. But so it's like a mix of like, I don't have anxiety, but also like to sort of, I like a nice night at home.

I think that's why I like this so much during a podcast, because I am not the guy who would go, oh, let's go have a beer. You know, I will always say, that sounds fantastic. I will catch up with you and don't. You know, so now I have an excuse as if we sat down in the corner of some party and talked for an hour. It is a privilege. It's pretty cool. Yeah.

Whenever there's like, we're going to this other thing after I'm always done. I'm like, no, this was our dinner. This was our, I don't need a second. I was kind of famous on Cheers for saying, oh, I'll catch up. Absolutely. Really? Sounds great. And Woody would roll his eyes because I would never show up. You guys like that?

Everyone from that show went, why am I retelling your career? But everyone on that show, what a strange thing that everyone really turned out to have great careers. And I don't think every TV show is like that, where...

That's the sort of peak of it, you know, for them. But you guys, it's like... Good writing. I think if you have really, really, really good writing and it isn't just a pop fad at the moment, you stand a better chance, at least, of going on.

Woody's gone on so much and makes so many wonderful movies that I've taken to just watching his films on my cell phone because I feel like it is my way of controlling his fame. Yeah. So he really just eases into all these incredible movies. Yeah, he's a really good actor. We love you, Woody, wherever you are.

Sometimes. Sometimes. That's the key word there. Sometimes. Okay. So this morning with Mary, I watched Skip Gates. Okay. Yes. Following your, finding your roots. Yeah. And Mary and I both did it at different times. That's right. And it is an amazing experience.

Because you can hear about, you know, somebody can tell you about your ancestors or you can read something or whatever. But when somebody places you there with photographs and letters and documents, wasn't it for you extraordinary? I know you can tell that story of learning something you didn't know about your ancestors.

But still, that moment. I think also, by the way, we might have been on the same season. I think so. I have like a vague recollection of like as they were rolling out the people who are on the show. Right. You guys being, I think. Following your roots. Finding your roots. Finding your roots. Sorry. Is Skip Gates and Harvard.

Bless their hearts. Harvard, you know, smart people looking up every kind of documentary. If there's a paper trail for your ancestry, they will find it. Then they create a book for you to open and read on camera, and they talk to you about your life. And the session...

The show is only an hour or whatever, but the session is like four hours of them unfolding these things in front of you. And they do like a year's worth of research, and they really research. And I asked them, I was like, how do you guys do it? It can't just be internet sleuthing. And one of the keys, they said, was church records, that religious organizations keep good records on church.

But it was incredible. Real estate, any kind of deed, anything. School records. And school records is how they figured out that my grandfather wasn't Japanese. He's Korean. And this was total news to you. Total news to you. I mean, I saw it on your face. Yeah. To the point where...

I had gone through my life saying, hey, I'm a quarter Japanese. And I adopted some of the personality traits of what I thought Japanese was. Like, I like my food this way. And, you know, I have this sense of design, which in my mind, I was like, I think it's because I'm part Japanese. And it wasn't the case at all. And the reason my grandfather died

I guess, faked being Japanese is that they had racism. Living in Japan. Living in Japan, educated in Japan, but Koreans would educate their kids, or rich Koreans, in Japan, but there was racism against Koreans. And it became horrendously violent. Yeah. Which made him switch. Oh, yeah. As a survival. Yeah. I'm Japanese, this is my name, and...

You knew that he went on to become a famous dancer. Yeah. He knew all about punk. All that stuff we knew. Yeah. Choreographer, dancer, and avant-garde dancing, which is like, for the time, I keep thinking avant-garde is invented in the 70s or 60s, but it's incredible that way back then that's what he was doing. In the 20s or 30s, was it? Yeah. Well, he was doing it in the 40s.

30s and 40s. And then came here to teach at Cal State Fullerton or something like that. Somewhere. Yeah. But then was here for a while and traveled all over. He had kids all over Europe, including my dad and, you know,

Traveled all over the place. So your dad was... German. So he was raised German. Raised German. Mm-hmm. Knew his father, though. Barely. Barely. Yeah. Oh, I see. Had a child and moved on. Yep. Gotcha. Yeah. So he was raised by his mother, but he didn't really know his dad. He kind of knew who he was, but didn't get to know him. So did that...

Did anything change once you went, oh, wait, my history is a little different than I thought it was? Yeah. For you? The things that changed for me were, like I said, you know, the fake sense of being something just because you've got it in your head that you're genetically something. But also as far as like education and, you know, knowing history, yeah.

it didn't occur to me that there was racism against Koreans in Japan. And I know it's documented. I know it's in history books, but like, I was like, there's so much I don't know. I, for all I know, I would have, I would have thought that everything was just peaceful and wonderful between the two countries. And just that, you know, I feel like,

Sometimes things like that seem so specific to Europe and America. And I'm like, of course that happens all over the world. So there was that. It was like a little bit of an awakening of that. Also of Korea. I think I didn't think enough about, I've got to get out there and I want to travel there and get to know it. Did you? Have you? I haven't yet, but I want to. That's the neat thing, I think, of what Skip does.

History can be very dry and you go, it's intellectual or something. But when you place a relative in a historical setting, all of a sudden you are really interested in that period and what was going on.

I found. That's exactly, that's so well said that I wish I had said it that way. Go ahead. We can add it. But it's true. That's exactly it where you read, I think you read history and it kind of goes through you. Yeah. No, I understand that was a hard time. That sounds like a terrible, terrible war. But you're right. As soon as it's like part of your own history, you're like, wait, explain again what that was. What was it about your history that

Well, I have a family. My nephew, his life is about his heritage and where he came from. And he literally knew everything that Skip Gates and all of the researchers came up with.

I have always gone yamma, yamma, yamma when he's talking. I'm sorry. Sorry, Eric. But it's not my fascination. So I heard things through Skip viscerally and differently. Yeah. But he kind of knew it. So I knew a great deal about it. But the thing that really landed, and now I'm going to blank on her name, but she was Anne Fletcher.

Anne Hutchinson. Anne, very good, Hutchinson. He did not look that up. I think he just said it. He's fascinated by my past. Oh, my God. That was good, man. That was good. But she, you know, Puritan, early days in America, colonies, she started preaching within her house. Women were not allowed to do anything, touch religion in any way other than, you know,

yes sir, no sir kind of thing. She would teach to a small group of people her interpretation, which was you don't need a church or a priest. God is available. Your relationship is with God. You don't need an intermediary. Well, that got into a lot of trouble. And the reason why we could trace our heritage back that far was because the governor of Massachusetts was the

served as the judge for her trial. And once you get... Trial? She went to trial for this? Oh, yes. And was... And her mistake was she started eviscerating all the people who were trying her. Rightfully so, but nevertheless, not a great idea. But not playing the game of like... Right. So she was exiled to kind of the outskirts of civilization as we knew it back then. In what state? Whoa.

He was the governor of Massachusetts. I don't know where she ended up, but west, where there were tribes that were still very actively trying to get rid of us. And at some point, a tribe that she had befriended, or they befriended her, said, you need to leave right now. There is going to be an uprising, and you will not be safe. And she said, oh, nonsense. I'll be fine. And she wasn't.

So there was hubris there, but she was this remarkable woman that I kind of see in a little bit in my mother, you know, and my sister, maybe my, you know,

sense of what it's like to be a woman or my willingness to learn that I don't know what it's like to be a woman or whatever. I feel like that kind of trickled down. So she is in your lineage. Yeah. My mom's side. Wow. No, my father's side. Forgive me. Yeah, yeah. Naturally, it's my father's side. Yeah. Not my mother. Sorry. Wow. They were like, hey, something's going to go down.

you should take off. And she was like, I shouldn't. I'm rambling. This is your time. But anyway, okay. But you are on TV while you... I didn't mean to. I feel bad that I divert a lot, but I was just interested in, we've had the same experience. Yes. I won't. I'll let Mary tell you someday her story. But all right. That's you, kind of. Yeah. And you had this kind of, maybe exotic's the wrong word, but you were exposed to a lot of

Different cultures, or at least the possibility of coming from different cultures. Yeah. That's informed you, I'm assuming. And then along comes drums. And tell me how that happens, because that seems to be your, was that your first, oh, I want to be a creative soul? Oh, immediately. And I mean, it could be, my mom's Venezuelan and my dad's German, but we lived in Brazil for a little while.

And Brazil is where I first saw drums. They had these sort of samba parades or they call them samba schools. And I was a kid, but I remember being drawn to seeing... It's all percussion. The whole parade is percussion. Surtos and panderas. And I, even as a kid, was really...

hypnotized by it. And then, you know, we're an American family. We also would go to like Disneyland on trips. And then even there, there'd be some, you know, a little jazz combo or something. And then I would age one, eight. And then I'd be, you know, I'd see whatever, a little ragtime band and the drummer. I'm just, my eyes would always focus on that. So somewhere in there, I, that's when you asked, can I have a drum set?

Yes. I remember they also bought me Beatles albums. And I remember hearing I Am The Walrus. And there's a drum intro to it that I just was like, that is what I want to do. And I still feel that way. That hasn't left me. Like I still hear drums and go, oh, that's what I want to do. I love it. I love it. They look great. They sound great. I love it.

There's something about the way people look when they're playing drums that I like for the most part. And you really are controlling a great deal of the rest of the music that comes out of all the other instruments. I mean, yeah, right. I mean, you are literally setting the beat. Yeah. And at the same time, you're sort of behind the rest of the group, like you're seated behind.

So it's just like distant, there's like a distant, you know, you're sort of controlling everything, but you know, you're not the lead singer. So there's something about that that I like as well. So it's not showy in the same way. Right. I guess it is showy that there's like symbols and stuff, but you know, it's not like, it's just like, not like being at the front. Did you have heroes or people you looked up to who were drummers? Oh, still, still. I mean, I first loved Keith Moon.

Ringo, of course, loved Ringo. Then from there it went on to, as I got older, the drummer for Devo, Alan Myers, drummer for Blondie, Talking Heads, all those bands I started to gravitate towards that. But the first drummer that I was like, "Oh, I want to be like him," was Keith Moon. I still look at pictures of Keith Moon and I'm like,

I want to disappear into the picture like, "What's going on there?" Because he was so just theatrical and funny. He seemed like a funny person. How's your body as a result of being a drummer for so long? Because it does, in some cases, take it out of you. Yeah. It affects your hearing because symbols are right here.

And when you're in your 20s, you bang away at them so much and it doesn't occur to you or to me where earplugs. You're just like, what? I'm 20, you know? And they are such a shrill sound that they really cut into your hearing. And then now, sometimes when I'm going to sleep, I'll hear like a little tinnitus. And then carrying drums around,

I think really does your back. The whole kit, you mean? Yeah, because you have this hardware for it. And, you know, in your 20s, okay, you're lifting stuff up and down the stairs, but then your 30s, you're still kind of doing it. And it's just, it's one of those things that like, I think it affects your back. It doesn't make you stronger. Like I get good at lifting cases. It just actually makes your back resent it. So now anything I've got to pick up, like suitcases, my back's like, we did that already. We're done.

Don't attempt it. So that's where I feel it the most is back and ears. Ears killed me. Really, really got me. I remember one of the first times. Music, I have this bizarre relationship, meaning I thoroughly enjoy it when I'm listening to it. And it can be as diverse, pretty much. And I cannot tell you a lyric.

Because what happens to me is I immediately go into some fantasy land. I go into some place, which is great. I mean, how wonderful for music. But I cannot tell you who played what and sang what words. Okay. Until Mary came along, now I'm starting to listen to the lyrics because she's a songwriter now. But back then, I think one of the first drum solos that I wrote, oh, wait a minute, was Seal.

Got to get a little crazy. There's a drum thing after that, after about the third chorus. It just was like, whoa. I haven't thought about that. That's a good one to pick. Most people pick some classic rock. But I'm like, oh yeah, Seal. But Seal is great. He has great intros to everything. Wow, Seal. Now I want to go listen to that again.

Phil Collins, who's now slightly related because Mary's son is married to Phil's daughter, Lily. I didn't know that. Yeah. So we have a drama in our family. Yeah. That's your family now. But about lyrics, I'm pretty much the same, where I also go off into fantasy land and I just, you know, my imagination goes crazy.

And the reason I notice it is because other people will tell me about how much they love a lyric. And I'm like, oh, I never even thought about what they were saying. The only lyrics that work on me is anything that's repeated. If something's repeated over and over, then I'm like, oh, I love that. I love Roxanne. Yeah, yeah. Great. Keep it going. But then otherwise, it's almost like an instrument. And I don't hear the specifics of it. And then someone has to explain it to me. Yeah.

I don't know why that is. Some people really hook onto it. So now you're eight, nine, 10 and you're drumming. Yeah. My, my parents, you know, God bless them. God bless them because that's a tough, yes, you're going to have a drum kit. That's a tough one. It's loud. Yeah. Where did you play? In your room? Up in my room. Yeah. Little suburban house.

But for the purposes of this podcast, I want to make it seem like I lived in a mansion. We'll throw up some photos. Yeah, just something like... So we had our own recording studio. It's not the truth, but we had multiple studios that they had built for me. Because I'm so ashamed. So sweet. I'm so ashamed of being middle class. Like, that's so humiliating. But...

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Go to HomeChef.com slash Ted and Woody. That's HomeChef.com slash Ted and Woody. For 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. HomeChef.com slash Ted and Woody. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. So yeah, they got me drums and I kept going. I took lessons and really learned. But you're just kind of this isolated person.

drummer in your room yeah when did it break out to oh let me be part of a group or oh early on like because i had friends you know by luck one friend who played guitar another friend who played guitar and it's this you're just it's so funny being so young and you don't even have ambition you're not like hey we got to form a band right it's just they come over with their amp and

As much as it sounds like a joke, I think our amps were from the Sears catalog, like a Sears guitar, which weren't bad. They were fine for kids. And then we'd all get together and play. I don't even know what we played, but...

It was just, we didn't have a name or anything. Just all of us. But then turning into a teenager, that's when you're like, okay, now here's another friend and we're going to, we're going to, here's a bass player. That's when it gets different. And you see other people roughly your age actually starting to get out in the world. Yep. So let's do it. Let's do it. And then there's also those friends who are like, that's not cool. This is cool.

So you start to have like, like, like, uh, you have to start to have sort of like your own lane. That's really strict. So like, we're not a heavy metal band. We're this band. And then you're, you know, I think all friends do that anyway. Like, that's cool. That's not cool. And then other friends introducing me to new kinds of records and stuff. So it was very exciting. I loved it. And it's funny. Yeah.

Fred showing up yet or no? Yes, amongst friends. We all made each other laugh. Always a part of our lives. Loved watching SNL. Loved watching SCTV. We were into all the sketch shows. Fridays, I remember we watched. But not as a career. It was just like, let's be a band. Although a lot of the bands I liked had a sort of

comedic quality like devo and talking heads had a sort of you know not comedy comedy but something quirky and observational about it that i liked yeah then you moved right to be part of the band or yeah well i went to college still not standing up and being funny oh no no no zero zero zero zero like uh went to college and then moved to chicago and then i was in my 20s and then i was in a band with

The real deal. The real deal. That's like, now we're going to go on tour. Now let's really try our best. And did that... Reviews, all of the above, or just packing? Was it pre-reviews or... It was very like, we toured all the time in punk rock circles. And it depends on how I look at it. Some days I go, oh, we didn't... Not enough people came to our shows. But then I'm like, well, we toured. We did okay. Yeah. So...

Not enough to make a living, but enough that we'd stay on the road for a while. I met some great people. So that was the first sort of professional, like, okay, now this is what I'm trying to do. And then that band broke up and I auditioned for Blue Man Group. Blue Man Group was in Chicago. Is this pre-their New York? First they were in New York and then they opened a franchise, like a version in Chicago. I auditioned for that and then I was one of the drummers. They had a rotating band.

And then that was my first paycheck. I would say that's my first showbiz paycheck was being in and playing for Blue Man Group. And you just answered an ad. Yep. How funny. I was, I was almost, that sounded antiquated. And then I'm like, no, that is what happened. For some reason in my head, I was like, no, it must've been something online. There was no online. It was 1997 or something. Or there was no, I, online wasn't in my life.

But yeah, answered an ad, auditioned, and there I was. And it changed my life. That was my first version of seeing that entertainment can actually be something you can be in business. And you're watching very unique and funny movies.

skits or whatever you call it, performances, Blue Man Group, right? So you were getting a dash of funny while you're the drummer. When you say backup drummer, they would do these things where they would hit the drums, the one I saw, and they had liquid coming up or something, and they'd send it, and the lights were amazing. Were you backing them? When you say backup, were you... So yeah, in a sense, like above the stage, lit by blacklight,

would be a band, a trio, drummer, zither player, and something called a stick, a Chapman stick. Bass-like. A version, like a bass-like instrument. And we were above the stage playing along with the blue man. So that's what that was. And when I say rotating, it's there were different fill-in musicians per show. So I would play like two shows a week.

And I remember I made $100 a show. And $100 was like a million dollars to me. My first was $125. Right, you couldn't believe it. You looked at it like, I just got a paycheck. All I was used to was like restaurant, you know, tips or whatever. To see something for playing the drums was... And like you said, the Blue Men, you know, they're kind of avant-garde. You know, it's like experimental theater in a way, but it was still popular. So...

I learned a lot from that. I took my first $125 check, went to a bank to get a credit card. Wait, wait. Laughed out of there. Laughed out. You were like, so you deposited it. No, I just said I was no longer the out-of-work actor. I'm now a hired working actor. Off-Broadway. And I would like a credit card, please.

And they said no. Oh, yes. All right. Full disclosure. My cousin was a vice president two floors up. This was Manufacturers Hanover Trust. And he used to get so upset that I would show up in my out-of-work actor's clothes and he had to dress in a suit and all of that. And he'd say, please, please don't come up and visit me. Please, please don't.

But I turned to the guy who said no credit card. I said, oh, by the way, my cousin Danny is the vice president upstairs. And I got a credit card. Because I was going to say, like, now I feel like credit card companies are one. They really are like, yes. You're going to go into debt here. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, those early checks, God. Okay. Take me from music to, oh, wait, I'm funny. Well...

It was a strange thing. I was in this band. We broke up. I was in Blue Man Group and I felt a little, I wasn't like the rock star I wanted to be. I was like, I set out to really, you know, to be in a famous band. So I felt a little disappointed. And my wife at the time, who's from England, introduced me to like British comedy. You know, she's all these shows that we had on VHS and stuff.

And there was something about it I really like. I know it's such a cool thing to say, like, hey, only British. But she's from England. And I did this thing where I just bought a video camera and I went to this music festival in 1998 and I interviewed bands as different characters. Who knows why? As an exercise, you know. And something about the tape that I made made the rounds. It was like... Did you edit it? A friend of mine edited it. In fact...

A friend of mine who I didn't know very well, just this guy was like, hey, I'll edit it. So wherever you are, thank you for doing that. And... Were we analog? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Analog, you know, videotape. Or it was like...

high eight. But I made VHS copies and I sort of gave them out as a sort of here's something. Was it in Austin? Where was it? No. Austin was the festival, but I was living in Chicago. So you went down. And this festival is like... That was bold. That cost money to go try your craft. I was already going to play with other bands. I was a fill-in drummer for a couple bands and they were like, you know,

I was like, okay, I'll go down and play. There are some conferences and some talks that they're doing. Why don't I go in and just sort of, you know, interview people just as a joke. And that video made the rounds. And that video is what set me off to doing comedy. It's been nonstop. Who saw it that gave you feedback?

Or did it go on? There was no online. There was no online, but there was a gentleman named Will Tannis at Warner Brothers Records who was a co-producer of a music show on HBO called Reverb. And he's like, oh, you'd be perfect to do little interstitials on that. And then I did that as a gig. So same kind of paycheck thing. I was like, wow, they're paying me to do this thing. I'll do it.

And it just kept going. And were you deadpan kind of? Yeah, yeah. You have to figure out that this was kind of funny. Yes, yes. Me doing characters. You didn't offend the band you were interviewing or whoever? No, no. I pretended to be German or deaf. I just pretended to be deaf or blind, I remember once. But the questions were never really, from what I remember, really making fun of the band. It wasn't that kind of thing. It was more like...

I try to get their sympathy in a way. Right. And it just... Is that still to be had? Oh. Can you find it somewhere? Oh, yeah, yeah. I think it's out there. Fred Amerson's Guide to Music and South by Southwest, 1998. And from there, you know, from that HBO thing I got, I moved to LA. I was in Chicago. And then I started doing stand-up at Largo. Great. And from there... Wait, that...

There's still a difference between having a kind of funny character and doing interviews. Did you sit in a room and just start writing your stand-up? It was more that I wanted to do it. So I was like, oh, what can I do? I could do a character on stage. It was more like... And Largo was perfect because there'd be all these comedians. And I thought, where do I fit? How can I do something that's a little different? Because I don't have the gift of telling those kinds of jokes. So I was like, I could be a character and...

fool people for a little while and that's that'll be part of the show this is around 2000 and Bob Odenkirk was there and I became friendly with him and he put me on a pilot of a sketch show he was doing called Next and that became like a more of an official entryway where I had things that I could send out as you know clips for like auditioning for SNL so very quickly with people's help is how I got to SNL so I

I was doing comedy, but... And was it just pure light bulb? This is it. Oh, I want to be here. It was such a fast light bulb that I didn't even have time to observe it. Before I knew it, that's all I was doing. I was just like saying yes to gigs and I was on Bob's... I mean, Bob, really? He plucked me from Largo and put me on TV. I forget that he was stand-up. I always think of him in these incredibly dramatic... Oh, my God. He was like...

Him and David doing Mr. Show, that was like the show. That was like the sketch show to rise up to. They were like, yeah, the centerpiece in a way. Very cool. At the time, yeah. And then comes Saturday Night Live. Yep, and then I had enough tape to send to Saturday Night Live and auditioned for them. And Marcy Klein showed my tape to Lorne. All the way through, it was just like quick doors opening. Yeah.

And my first TV show that I was on was Conan O'Brien. We're all here. We're all here. We're all here because of Conan. And Paula Davis, who's in the other room, she's the one who saw me at a comedy festival and put me on Conan's show.

So much later. No, no. This is during the same time. During the same time. Oh, wow. So that's, you know, did, were we on Conan the same? No, I think it was he doing in the year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was that. Yeah. I did a couple of those. Yeah. Felt honored. Yeah. Yeah. It was great being, I mean, I love that show. Yeah. Yeah. Paula Davis. Same thing. All these, you know, thank you, Paula Davis. Thank you, Paula. Oh, but she knows it. I've,

talk to her so much about it. I think she's tired of me saying to her, like, you put me, she put me on TV. She really, that was my first network, you know, and the light bulb moment, like I really, when I was doing it, I remember thinking, oh, I love this. You know, when the cameras were on and stuff, I loved it. I really did. Who was there when you first arrived in Saturday Night Live? When I first got there, I joined with Will Forte.

So we were the two new guys, just the two of us. So we got to experience that together. And then we were low on the totem pole where the stars, as it were, were Maya Rudolph, Tina Fey, Jimmy Fallon, Chris Kattan, and I think...

Chris and Tracy Morgan were just finishing. I think they were finishing. I think Jimmy was finishing too. And so they made us feel very welcome, but they were like, they were sort of like onto their careers. Right. And then as we stayed, you know, the cast changed. Yeah.

But God, it was great. I mean, those are all still friends of mine. Will Forte. Will Forte. One of my favorite people and great friend. Yeah. Never thought he would get married and have children. And he is so happily married and so happily a dad. Yeah. But he's organized in a way that I could see him being thorough. Well, isn't that kind of a nice way to say totally 100% compulsive? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like people have said to me,

you know, I think he's got to shake hands with everyone before. It's something he hasn't. No, there's a ritual. And I thought, that's not real. I noticed that he's, you know,

But then, sure enough, as I was watching, I was like, oh, I think he does. But it's nice, though, because sometimes it's nice. They make you feel good rituals. Always. And when that attention comes my way, I'm like, that's great. That Will's like, I'll be, I'll see you tomorrow. I think he early on found out that Mary has the sense of humor of a nine-year-old boy. So he would, one of his rituals was to come up

And fart in the morning, audibly, so that she could have this wonderful, pretend shock, horrified reaction. And where? On set? On set. This is while he was doing Last Man on Earth. God, that was such a great show altogether. You were on it playing a cannibal. Yeah. Yeah.

And you were setting up, grooming my wife Mary to be your next meal. Yep. Basically. Yeah. And you were pretending to be an artist? Yes, pretending to be, because then the art itself was terrible. Right. But Will decided to paint for you the picture of Mary that you were supposedly painting. Yeah. And it's horrifying, and it's in our...

little mini gym that we have at home hanging on the wall because we couldn't get rid of it, but we couldn't really allow it in the house. It was so horrible. It looked like a potato person or something. With shocking red short hair. Just like so, so terrible. No, I'm so glad I got to experience that with him. Yeah. It's great. And then

Also, I love that we just pop up at each other's lives still. And Bill Hader, too, who I had the pleasure of talking with here. And John Mulaney, who we recently talked to here. You guys are great buddies. Oh, yeah. We see each other frequently. It's the best. It's a nice surprise in life, you know? You work with people and you think, oh, hopefully we'll stay in touch. And then...

We really, really stayed in touch. It's the best. That's so cool. You're not all the same either. You're all incredibly bright and love funny and know how to do it. But it's all a little bit different slice. It's funny that you're not. Yeah. Now that you're saying it, I was just picturing everyone's personality and you're right about that. But there's got to, I mean...

But there is that shared, when someone wants to do a bit or, you know, a joke or whatever, that we're totally in line with. Yeah. Never have we been like, now's not the time to joke or like, what? It's always fine-tuned. I know when one of them, you know, is joking and that's the best. How did Portlandia come to be? How did that? Well, Portlandia is like... Because that's full-fledged.

Write scripts. Yeah, yeah. That's its own thing. Writer's room? Did you have a writer's room? Yeah, we sure did. The whole deal. The whole deal. Is that coming from your brain? Did you do this? Oh, no. It was me. Oh, really? Well, in combination with other people. But it was me and Carrie Brownstein. Carrie, who's magnificent. Genius. Yeah. She's like... So good. She's so great. And she was, or is in a band, my favorite band, Sleater-Kinney. And we were friends...

We had some mutual friends in the 90s, but in the early 2000s, we became friends to the point where we should work on something. And instead of doing a band, we decided, let's try making videos. And that's what we did. Started making these videos in Portland, and that turned into the show. But...

No, she thought of so many of those sketches. That opening number, musical number. Yes. The Dream of the 90s is alive in Portland. Was that? That's Jonathan Kreisel, our director, co-creator, thought of that. Because that's what it felt like in Portland. You know, the Dream of the 90s. And coming from the 90s, in a way, I understand. I feel like, sometimes I feel like now, even still, I'm like, oh, the Dream of the 90s. You know?

That's funny. I'm trying to go, wait. Dream of the 90s is like, do the right thing. Come on, you know. Yeah. Recycle. Yeah. You know, even though we all recycle, there's still a sort of like, come on. And this will work. And this will work. There's hope. There's a hope. It's like, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know, tattoos, piercings feels right. I know they're not from the 90s, but to me, that's what it feels like.

My recollection of the 90s is a lot of bands had stickers. I don't think bands do stickers as much anymore, but you'd see it everywhere. Just band stickers in the bathroom and... Bumpers. Bumpers and, you know, toll booths, you'd see a band sticker. That to me is the most 90s thing is stickers, in my opinion. Trying to think what I was doing. Clearly didn't stick. Yeah.

Cheers was over and I was making my way and discovering that not every time you do something, it turns out to be cheers. You can have to slog your way through. But what's funny is when I think of your career... Please do. Thank you. I always think you're just one of those guys where it always works out. In my mind, you jump from one big thing to the next. Let's just go with that. I can't help it. It's just like, yeah, to dance and, you know, just...

This and that and then this and then that and then billboard and then, you know, I mean it as a compliment. I'm not that talented, but I'm really nice. I'm a really nice guy to have around. Really? And really nice goes a long way. I just, for you, you know, budding actors, just be nice. I remember you on talk shows in the 80s and the 90s. I remember you on talk shows and you always seem nice. Yeah, see? Always seem nice.

You were a really good talk show guest. I'm nice. Yeah, you're nice. Don't be afraid of bland, ever. Bland and nice just gets you everywhere. We should all wish for that. Although your character...

On Cheers, I don't think that was, that wasn't bland. I'm not, by the way, this false humility thing I do. No, I know, I know. Is because I know I'm magnificent. Yes, yes, yes. I'm magnificent. Yes. Yes. And very different from all your characters. This person, I think you even have a different accent. When I'm talking to you now, I'm like, oh, he speaks differently. Yeah, this is slightly...

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Are you good at memorizing lines? Well, that's, yes, I am. I am good at it. Do you have to work at it? It takes a smidge more the older I get. And for some reason, this is just mean, Cheers was, Sam Malone was the slow, dumb joke. Now the older I get, it's the speedy, long paragraph joke. And that's not right. No. No. No.

Do you ever get tripped up on one word over and over? You're like, why is that word not settling into my head? I'll never understand the dynamics of why that happens. It's a little bit self-fulfilling too because I will say, oh, this is my hard scene. And lo and behold, it's the hard scene because I said so. Yeah.

Guaranteed. Yeah. Oh, this is a tough one. Not that many lines, but this is a tough one. And that line is going to be hard. And boom, that's the one that's hard. This must have happened to you all at Saturday Night Live where all week long on Cheers we would rehearse and there was something that we could barely get through. We would be rolling on the ground. It was so funny. Audience comes, here comes the moment and you could hear a pin drop.

And it's like, instead of being horrified, it's the funniest thing because your body is all of a sudden plummeting to earth. You feel it in your stomach. You're like, oh, no one thought that this was funny. There were times where a moment like that would happen. Total death, total silence.

And then we would blame the audience a little. Oh, well. Yeah. Or the mics. Yeah, the mics. You know, it must be the audience is off or something like that. And then later during SNL, there'd be a sketch that kills. So they were fine. They were present. Yeah. It was just that sketch that they were not interested in. It's pretty wild. Do you know Jimmy Burrows? He directed all of the Cheers and Friends and, you know,

But he was our director, and one time a joke died, and he turned and looked at the audience and said, can you hear it? And the mic sounded, and they went, no, no. And we turned it on, and the joke killed. And it was a week later that I decided to go, wait a minute, can you hear us? Yeah, we can. That's the only literal time that the mics were off, that they couldn't hear. When he called it. When I called it, it was, oh, no, we hear you loud and clear. We're fine. Wow. Wow.

God, you guys had, that's right. You had an audience every single time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly I have to work on lines a little bit. It takes me a couple nights to really get it down. Me too. Yeah. Me too. But that's, I guess that's the job. Yep. Yep. Yeah. And do what you have to do. Yeah. Okay. Now you have a baby. Yeah. Two-year-old, three-year-old? Three-year-old. Three-year-old. Mm-hmm. What is that like?

Mr. Tour with your band anytime you feel like it. It's pretty great. Yeah. It really makes you relaxed about time. Yes. So yesterday I had a moment where I had a good hour of really having to occupy his time. And it was the best because what I had to do, the things that I had on my docket didn't matter any less.

They kind of don't. They'll just be sitting there anyway. So it's almost like time stands still for a moment and it's all about him goofing around and it's the best. It's actually relaxing. And actually everything is just like, okay, is he having a good time right now? He's laughing. He's enjoying himself. We're good. It's the best. And it's the best seeing him figure out new jokes, new ways of doing jokes,

Because he knows you like to laugh. Because things will make him laugh. So if I make this thing talk. Yes. I mean, to us. And they're going to laugh really hard. Thank you very much. Thank you. You have to follow through now. Please. Make it talk. So if you make something talk, whatever voice you do. So that concept. We paid our money. Ah, damn it.

I got to make the lid open. Oh, we could, I guess we could do some CGI or AI to make the mouth. Yes. Because unlimited budget. Yeah. If you don't mind just, so I, when I did this before, just add a little, but so that, that concept, he, you know, he laughed at it, but today I saw him do, he did it for the first time. So that like,

Him transferring, you know, that is the best. It's great. It's great. And he's getting the gift of funny. Yeah. You're giving him funny. Yeah. That is a gift. It's also a good time occupier. Yes. To joke around. There will be a time. Well, maybe not for you because you're a professional. I watch some of my steak. It does not travel well past six. Yeah.

Oh, I bet you're right. And then they start to go, they're sweet. And you'll get a chortle and eyes darting for, you know, someone else in the room to go talk to. But it's different. I've heard this and I've heard worse. Meaning like eyes rolling. Yeah. A friend of mine described walking into a room.

And his kids are teenagers. Oh. And he said him walking into the room made his son make a face. He didn't do anything. And his son made a face. He was like, oh my God, all I did was enter. Yes. We had that experience with one of our grandkids recently.

we come to visit at school with our arms open wide and it was the worst thing that had ever happened to her ever it's shocking but I'm going to be now I'm prepared you're going to bring food or candy what how are you I'm going to come in disguise so I'm going to show up at the school totally as like some other yeah creature and that'll be you know I'm seeing completely disguised yeah okay

Like they do in Disneyland or whatever. If you had, let's pretend you do, and you do anyway, have a mission, a goal in life that's bigger than just yourself. But if you had a North Star that kind of guides you and you go, oops, or ah, I'm on track. Oh, you mean something that's bigger than career? Yep. Or something you do with you, you want to accomplish with your career better.

for the good of or for other people or... All I really do whenever something like that comes up, I think of people I admire. So I think, okay, David Byrne is still making new versions of entertainment. And I feel like Steve Martin, the way he's like mixed...

uh music with his in his life um and performing i'm like that's a good way to go i just look to what those people i know i know this sounds very career centric but i also mean it as far as far as like making things i love making things um so that's kind of like that's like a a basic north star is becoming more and more like people like my heroes who are still my heroes um

Because of their work they do? Yes, and the way that they approach it. Right. Which it seems, something about it seems to come from a place of like, I want to keep making things. And it is for other people. I want to do that. I don't see, you have a different...

Niche? Niche. You are a producer, writer, director. You can quibble over if you want, but you're a producer, writer. You are self-starting. You can sit in a room and go, I'm going to create this, and out comes a film or a TV show or something. And...

Hopefully. Yeah. Knock on microphone. Yeah. So my, mine is much more what, what I can do with other people's work. Oh, do you know what I mean? Meaning, meaning I'm an actor, actor, actor. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stop. Yeah. So I depend on really good writing or somebody who, and what I'm discovering recently, do you know Mike? Sure. Of course. Yeah. Right. Saturday night live. Right. Um,

I find him very purposeful. Yes. In what he puts out into the world. And he wants it to make it a better place. Yes. Or a thoughtful place. Or let's have a conversation about what I just did with him, a man on the inside. Let's have a conversation about an uncomfortable topic. Aging, death, grief, memory loss. Let's have it in

Be able to laugh and be honest and real. I love that sense of purpose. So that's what I want to kind of hitch my wagon to, that purposeful. You mean his purposefulness? Yes, because I'm not writing it.

I like to be around people. And it can be silly. It can be stupid. It can be whatever. It doesn't have to be this serious woo-woo thing. But I want it to be purposeful. I want it to make some sort of difference, no matter how modest. His specifically has a real theme to it. His book, his recent book, was it How to Be Perfect? What was it called?

We might have to look that up. But his book is all about that. I wrote the foreword, but I didn't read it. Okay. It's great. How to be perfect. He's not just like, hey, I'm going to write comedy and hope that it's all a hit. He's more like he has a theme. And yeah, I love that. Would you rather work for yourself and your writing than someone else's or do you care? I like both. Yeah. Both is great. Because when it's someone else...

then it really like, it expands how you think of things. That's what I like about it. I love, I'm interrupting. Pardon me. No, but I'm going to interrupt. No, no. I have final edit. I don't actually. They do.

I look at you, first off, you're a really good actor. I've seen you really good acting. You always, whether you're being funny or not, you're a really good actor. I would love to see you, and this is sounding old and everything, but I would love to see you do Leading Man because you're so interesting.

and we're used to you being silly or making us laugh or doing characters. Do you ever think about, yeah, I should write something for myself or be part of something that is? Well, that's very nice of you to say. Or do you have no, if it's not funny, you don't have a desire? It's not that. It's that like I, whenever I've put myself in something, I always picture it.

alongside other people, but not dead center, but featured enough. You can be dead center and still be part of. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I always used to think I was the tall guy in Cheers because the stories went every direction and everybody was brilliant. Yeah, yeah.

Everybody was. I laughed just now because I just thought of just the idea of Cheers. I remember like watching it and laughing. So, you know, I've thought about it a little bit, but there's one idea that I had that I pitched to Tina and that's Tina Fey that she liked. So somewhere in there that might work. But it's almost like, it's almost like being pretend, having pretend humility. Yeah. Where like... Oh, that's my bailiwick. Can I be in it? Yeah, yeah. It's good.

Of course. You're too busy. But yes. But it's almost like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. But then I think when I sit down and start writing stuff, yeah, of course, it's fun to be in stuff. But I do like being alongside other people. Me too. I love ensemble. I wanted to be a basketball player and it was all about team. Yeah, it's the best. I love team. Love it.

Portlandia with, you know, with Carrie and SNL with all those people. I love it. Portlandia was hysterical. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Thank you. I loved it. Yeah. I love getting to do it. Eight seasons. Do you got something else coming up? The second season of Wednesday is coming out.

soon god i love that yeah so i forgot sorry i should have mentioned no no it's great i think over the next couple months we're going to start i'm doing some more press stuff for us i'm like i may as well you've shot it oh yeah where where did you ireland oh my god but how wonderful yeah it's perfect right what a life like moody magical place oh fantastic i loved it

And yeah, it was in Ireland and it's all ready to go. I don't know the exact date of it. I think they purposefully don't tell me. This year on Netflix. God bless Netflix. God bless them. Thank you, man. I really love the tradition of comedy that you come from and you're so good at it. I appreciate it. And I feel the same about you.

Everyone does. I am a natural sycophant kiss-ass, but I actually do mean this. I don't think you are. But I do mean this. I could tell when people are, and I don't think that's what you are. Yeah. I think that, in my experience, this version of Ted that you're getting, I think this is the same experience I have when I see you out in the world. So, FYI, that's the real thing. Much, much respect. Thanks.

Fred Armisen, everyone. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love. Find us on YouTube where you can watch full-length episodes. As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and a review on Apple Podcasts if you have a second and if you're in the mood. More for you next time where everybody knows you're in the mood.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, Sometimes.

The show is produced by me, Nick Liao. Our executive producers are Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Bautista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Yen, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne. ♪

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