Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
You ever think of that? If your dad had, you know, something coming out of his nose that night, you're not here, Ted. One booger away from non-existence. We're all living on the edge. ♪
Welcome back to Everybody Knows Your Name. I am giggling just thinking about who I get to talk to today.
Phil Rosenthal. He created and executive produced the wildly popular sitcom Everybody Loves Raymond. But these days, he's keeping especially busy hosting his documentary travel series on Netflix, Somebody Feed Phil, soon to be in its eighth season. Phil is one hungry dude, and I don't mean food, I mean about life in general.
He uses food and travel as a way to stay curious and engaged about the world we live in. And I think we can all learn a lot from that. He's one of my dearest friends. So happy he's here. Please meet the delightful Phil Rosenberg. You're my favorite person. Not just TV Ted Danson, but real Ted Danson. People need to know that you're the sweetest sweetie pie in the world.
You too are a sweetie pie. And we both said, we both said pretty much right off the bat, oh, we just made new, new good friends. Like kids in school. But, but what, answer me truthfully. Yeah. We first met, we were hot and heavy. We like, like, like, cause I came up to where you guys live. Yeah. And, and you said we, we had breakfast. Come over tonight. What are you doing tonight? Yeah, I'll come. And we come and we have dinner. And then it's like the Mel Brooks and Cary Grant stories.
where he's like, he sees Cary Grant on the lot. You know this story? He sees Cary Grant on the lot. I'll make the short version. You got to, if you want to hear it, you go to YouTube. Mel has told the story probably every TV appearance of his life. And it's a great story. He sees Cary Grant. Cary Grant says, oh, I love you. And he says, yeah. He goes, you want to get lunch? Yeah, we get lunch. And we're skipping to lunch. And I have my new friend, Cary Grant. And he calls the next day. Want to have lunch?
And yes, my best friend, Cary Grant. And Wednesday, we have lunch. And Thursday, we have lunch. And Friday, the phone rings. And my secretary says, it's Cary Grant on line two. He says, tell him I'm out.
No, I have not told anyone to tell you I'm out yet. No, but I haven't seen you in a couple of months. And I was wondering, was I too much? No, you weren't too much. Because I worry about that because my wife says I'm too much. No, no. So, but come on, just so you don't, people don't get the impression that I've been avoiding you. You've been on the road nonstop.
That's true. But you travel, too. You've been away from L.A. a little bit. A little bit, yeah. You go back east. You go— Go back east. Did you go to Europe at all? Kids and grandkids, no. We're about to do that. We're about to go visit our Lily and Charlie. In— In Copenhagen. Oh, the— You've been there before. Yeah. Isn't it the great— It's like an idealized society. It is. The taxes are really high. It's half. Literally half. Yes. But across the board for everyone. Yes. And you get—
Everything that you want to the point where it's illegal to be homeless because there is no reason to be homeless. None. If you have mental issues here, it's a wonderful place. We'll pay for it. Drugs here, you know, whatever. What if we could learn something? Interesting, right? That's maybe the sticking point, the learn part. I don't know. Michael Moore did a movie and it was about American ideas.
that were taken not by America, but by other countries who now thrive on their ideas. Where to invade next? I recommend this to... You haven't seen it? No, no, I haven't. You'll love it. It's not even political, the movie. I mean, I guess deep down it must be because it deals with who's in charge and who's not in charge. But it's all about ideas, good ideas that we... Why can't we...
You know, you go to Copenhagen and you don't see the Bentley going down the street, but then you don't see the homeless person either. Right. You see happy people. The first couple of days I thought, oh, they're being really sweet to us tourists. Then I sat there and I watched local neighborhood people come and they were equally sweet to each other. It was, it's a happy. That's the secret. Happy people. Look what they get for that, that tax money. The cleanest people.
food, air, and water anywhere. Your education is paid for through college. If you have a baby, you get to hang around with the baby during the most formative months. Yes, and free medicine. Yeah. I mean, just. But God knows we don't want to be socialists.
You know, like that word scares the crap out of people from doing all the things that we should really just be doing. Hey, does someone pick up your garbage in the morning? You're a socialist. Yeah. Does someone come and put out the fire when your house is burning down? Hey, you're a socialist. Yeah, yeah. Do you get to drive on free roads? Yes, that's you're a socialist. Well, we've handled politics. That's it. Dear Ted, I'm never listening to your commie bullshit again.
We've had Woody on for a while, so I think we've already weeded out the week apart. Weed it out! Oh, that brings me. Listen, I don't come for nothing. My son, you know I told you about this. My son, during COVID with his friends, invented a cookie mix with THC in the cookie mix.
Okay. But he's a genius. My son, Ben, he invented a cookie mix that doesn't taste like the THC that's in it. Because a lot of these edibles, Woody would know. Can you read the name of that? It's called Zaza's. Zaza's. And Woody's store was the first one to buy the cookie. So it's a salad. My God. Eat your heart out, Woody. Yes.
It's called Zaza's Cannabis Infused Chocolate Chip Cookie Mix. And all you add is half a stick of butter and one egg and it makes 25 cookies. So what I do is I make the mix and then make little dough balls. I put it in the freezer and then right before bed, because I'm old, right before bed, I put on the toaster oven to 350 degrees.
And it warms up and then I take the dough ball. I put it in the toaster oven and in 10 minutes, I have a fresh baked chocolate chip cookie. And you go to sleep. Yes. Yeah. Well, you start to feel a little, you know, maybe listen to music. Maybe look at the wife and she looks at you like, what's going on? And I brought your bag. Can I see that? If you want to try it. Yeah, yeah.
It's doing very well. It's at dispensaries everywhere and it's selling out and they're reordering and I'm thrilled about it. That's amazing. But he made it. He's the baker. He's the one who invented like a recipe that hides that flavor, that cannabis flavor. Was chemistry involved? Yes, yes. What's really involved is trial and error. Yeah. You know, I had to eat a lot of cookies. Tell the truth. Have you had a breakfast cookie today, Phil? I haven't. No, this is just me.
I'm excited to see you. I'm excited to see you too. That's all. I won't be selling anything else today. I promise. Yeah. I'm trying to think the last time we saw each other. Maybe it was your movie night that you have. I sent you an invite for Sunday. I know. I just saw that. Can you come? That's going to be very good. Maybe. You've seen that movie. Let's tell the people. The Last Waltz, which I think is Scorsese's best movie. I don't think it's on a streaming service right now.
But it is phenomenal. The filmmaking is so great. Is this the band? Yes. Yes, yes. And it was their last concert. And the band was great on their own. But then they were also the backing band for so many of the greatest acts in history. Joni Mitchell, Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, they all come out and do songs. Wow. Neil Young. It's so good. You've never seen it? No, I haven't. The best concert movie ever made.
not just because of this lineup of people, but because Scorsese pre-planned his shots. It was the first time that had ever been done in a concert film. And he staged, you know, staged theatrically. He had Boris Levin, the famous set designer, design a set. He had done West Side Story and Sound of Music. Wow. Designed a set for the Winterland Theater in San Francisco. You're going to love this. It's the best. And it's like a new transfer, 4K transfer from Criterion. Yeah.
I'm into this, I guess. No, no. I'm sitting here going, oh, I know why we're not coming because we're on a plane to Copenhagen. Oh, that's why. Listen, you should cancel. Yeah. Dear Charlie, sorry. Hey, let me... Here you are. We've talked about, you know, food and we're going to talk about food and your prolific writing and your love of music and your love of films. And I'm sure that's also true having seen your house about art. When did...
What is the origin of Phil the Renaissance man who is curious and interested in so many things? Because to me, that is the heart and soul of a truly creative person, is that curiosity of all things creative. Where did that come from in you? My parents started. Helen and Max. Helen and Max. They, my dad, not so curious, really.
Was born an old Jewish man and was an old Jewish man his whole life. And it was fine with very, very simple things. Didn't like much. But my mother, they both came from Europe. They were both born in Germany. They're Holocaust survivors. My mother had a love of opera and art. And I was just grew up around it. Didn't like opera.
As a child who really likes opera, I think you have to be, I don't know, some kind of freaky kid to love that yelling. Right. We had enough yelling in the house. And then on Saturday afternoon, God forbid you should disturb my mother when she was listening to WQXR from New York broadcast live from the Metropolitan Opera House every Saturday. This was her joy in life. You could not. Ma, I broke my arm. I'm listening to the opera. Yeah. Right.
My dad, simpler, all he wanted was fluffy eggs. Are my eggs fluffy? And she would say, I'm listening to the opera. This was their mantra. It's on their tombstones. Literally, I put, are my eggs fluffy? On my dad and I'm listening to the opera on my mom's tombstone because that's heaven for both of them. Did you tell them, by the way, beforehand? That I would do that? Yeah. Because they had a great sense of humor. I think it might be rude to say, hey, you know what I'm going to put on your tombstone?
We're going with fluffy eggs. Hey, you know what I'm thinking? And I can't stop thinking about it. You're a tombstone. I know you're not feeling well right now. No, we did it because, first of all... Makes you laugh. They can't object. Second of all, we knew they wouldn't object. Yeah. I think they would like it. I think, right? Yeah. I don't need a tombstone. Don't worry about me. I already got my thing. You know what it is? And I got this for somebody else who lost...
lost his wife early in life and was devastated. And he asked me, I don't know what to do. I don't know. I want some kind of memorial. So I told him about what my wife got for me already, a bench in Central Park. Oh, wonderful.
Right? Wonderful. I love those benches. I love reading them. And then you have a living, useful thing. And if you want to visit me, come to my bench. Yeah. I love that. That's not a graveyard. Who cares? If we believe in anything in the afterlife, our spirit is out there anyway. I told my wife,
You know what? When I'm walking with her in Central Park, which is where, you know, we had our first kiss, you know, it's my favorite place on earth. I said, you can, when I die, you can just sprinkle my ashes in Central Park. She said, anytime. Sooner the better. Yes. I confess that my mom, who was cremated, and we separated the ashes, so some would go there, some would go there, and I had a little...
little teeny mini pot with a cork in it that was my mom. And unfortunately, I put it next to the little pot that had our dog in it. And now I can't, I swear to God, don't know which is which. Any thoughts, Phil? As long as you didn't put it next to the cookie mix. Right. Wow. Sorry, mom.
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So can I ask you to go back to- You were delicious. Yes, where the arts came in. But I was trending towards my dad, who was like really funny, and I just wanted to be funny, and I didn't care about the opera or art, really. But then I went to college, went to Hofstra University, and then I had a roommate who was very, very brilliant visual artist, and he really turned me on to a world way beyond what I had grown up with. Like he, not my mother, because it's your mother, you don't listen to her, but-
But a peer said, let's go to the museum. I'm like, museum? And he showed me. His name is Rob Wiener. And he's a great director. And he became one of the directors of the Donald Judd Foundation in Marfa, Texas. I don't know if you've ever heard about that. That's the largest modern art installation facility.
an outside installation in the world is in Marfa, Texas, where they shot giant and no country for old men. So this giant canvas of nothing is all these modern art sculptures. And he recruited other modern artists. So this is stuff I know about because of my friend, which I would never even have an interest in, let alone now kind of understand. Right. And then, you know, if you get any basic liberal arts education, right.
You're going to love movies. You're going to love plays. You're going to love music. So I thank Hofstra University for that. And then just I was curious. The best thing college can do for a person other than all the drinking and smoking is it teaches you how to learn for the rest of your life. If you're not just drunk every day in school and not just stoned, you can learn how to learn. Get curious.
And that has propelled me through the rest of my life is that curiosity. That's what that's. What are we here for? I tell people when people who don't travel, right? I don't have to sell you on it, but people who don't travel. I say, if somebody gave you a house, gave you as a gift, here's a house, big house. Would you stay in one room of the house? Right. Go see all the rooms, people. While we're here, you know, because someday you're not going to have that house.
Yeah. So see it all. Why wouldn't you want to? And you might find out that the house is filled with people who are not that much different than you and you kind of enjoy. Listen, that's the whole message of my thing. Yeah. It's not, you know, people think, oh, it's a food show. It's not a food show. I'm just using food and my stupid sense of humor. Right. To give you the real message, which is when we travel, we meet great people. Yeah. And we fall in love every day.
Who doesn't want that feeling? I love your show, Phil. Thank you. I really love it. And I love watching you, unlike some of the other shows, which are great and all that. But I love when you turn to your crew.
Having just tasted something that we know is the best thing you've ever tasted in your life and offer it to the crew and all the crew comes up and eats the same food. I know your brother Rich produces it, right? Sometimes they don't wait for me to offer it. Yeah. And Richard will come and take it out of my hand. But it is the kindest, most exuberant, uh,
Delicious way to see the world. It really is. I love what you're doing. Thank you. I don't want to ruin any surprises for anybody, but Ted makes a special appearance in the season that's going to be coming up. I was very nervous, by the way. You were fantastic. Yes. No, but not at that point. When I was actually with you on camera, I was fine. But thinking about...
Can you say, you know, you ask people to think of a joke. Oh, yeah. So that I've done for the last season or so. Yes, ever since you're... Since my dad passed, we do a joke for Max. Right. I thought that was a good way to keep his spirit alive. Oh, it's a great idea. It's a great idea. And he would love that section more than any other. And I bet people were honored having watched you talk to your father to be, I was, to be asked to do this. But the pressure of coming up with a good joke...
That is honoring of Max and not just the stupidest, dirtiest joke you can think of. Right. It was a great pressure. And then I said my joke. Yeah. I won't spoil. Yeah. But I...
You did this sweetly. It wasn't distracting, but I noticed your eyes immediately go, I know this joke. It's a version of, a different version of a joke that was his favorite. Oh, that's right. You said that. So you picked a perfect joke. And I love the twist on it. In some ways, it might be better. Sorry, Dad. But listen, he didn't write any of his jokes. When he did the show, Yeah.
He would, my wife told me this because she was staying with him while I was away after my mother passed. When I had to go film, she very sweetly went and stayed with him for a month and took care of him with the caretaker. It was such a sweet relationship. And you can see that in the, you know, I think it was season...
five or six of our show. You can see them. They were always together on the Zoom. She said he would, before I'm calling for him to do the joke, his book of old Jewish jokes. And he's going through it and trying to find the right joke. Is this a written book? No, no, no. This is a published book, a volume. That's great. That he would go through. He had to find the right joke. Yeah. Yeah.
He was really good. He did. He did some. It's called Tumbling. Tumbling is not formal stand up comedy, but in the Catskills where all the old Jews sit around the pool and eat all day.
Mel Brooks had done this to a lot of famous people, Red Button, Sid Caesar. They all started this way. My dad did this. You go around the pool and kind of make the people laugh doing funny stuff. Tell a joke, you know, just be funny around them. So he was a naturally funny guy. And I didn't know this. I swear I didn't know this until we filmed a little tribute show to them. And I got to sit with their surviving friends.
The night my mother met him, he was doing amateur stand-up in his 20s in New Jersey. She was on a date with another guy. And I swear, if he wasn't funny that night, I'm not here. Well, we are getting some origin stories about you. That's a real origin story. That's amazing. Yeah. You ever think of that? If your dad wore the wrong thing, said the wrong thing, behaved badly,
Had a, had a, had, you know, something coming out of his nose that night. You're not here, Ted. One booger away from non-existence. We're all living on the edge. I still want to go back. I wanted to ask about your mom. Yes. Because when, when you say that she was interned. Yes.
During World War II in France.
Captured and... Growing up in France or where? Hamburg. Hamburg. But captured, trying to get out of there, brought to a concentration camp in France. People don't know they had concentration camps too. Yeah. They weren't the most severe death camps like Auschwitz and Buchenwald. But they were still...
We call them concentration camps because they concentrate populations in these internment camps. And if you die, you die. They're certainly not feeding you. You're certainly not staying in nice accommodations. You're a prisoner. And it's kind of a way station until they can ship you off to die. Right. And how long was she there? A year. A year?
And then liberated? Liberated. They get on a boat. That's where she got the most sick. Almost died at 11 years old. The ship is turned away from America and they go to Cuba. She said those, I think it was a year. Sorry. So was the war still going on? No, the war's over. War's over and they were turned away. Yes. They go to Cuba. Right. That was one of the happiest times of her life. Pre-Castro Cuba was a frigging paradise, she said.
To her dying day, she loved mangoes because of that time. Wow. Yeah. So this is, you know, not having Jewish heritage, I probably shouldn't make this generality, but a lot of times children of survivors have a kind of tough road to go. Yeah. It sounds like that you didn't because they were able to...
There were moments where you don't realize that it's tough until you compare it to other kids. Right. We don't know. We think if you grow up in a house, you think that's how everybody is until you meet other people. Right. Like I said, hey, Ma, all the kids are getting these cool Stingray bikes. Could I have one for my 10th birthday? She said, you know what I got for my 10th birthday? Yeah.
So it was like that. And how did that... Do you think that's an imprint on Phil that we know today or not? Has to be. Has to be. Doesn't it? Yes, it has to be. But I don't see it. Unless it's your determination to be cheerful, joyful, nurturing, all these other things that you are. I think you have a choice in life. You can either let the little negative things or major negative things bring you down, or you can fight against them and
Go the other way. And that was you from Hofstra on? The moment I got in the school plays, it was fantasy life.
Did you do the school plays when you were a kid? One I did at Kent School for Boys. I did because basketball season was over and we had to think of something to do. In White America by Martin Duberman. Wow. Was that unusual for a basketball, a kid on the basketball squad to even want to be in the school play?
Perhaps except my buddy and I, who was the real basketball star, Dwayne Retta, and I decided to do it. You thought it'd be funny and fun. Fun. Yeah, fun. Yeah. And I remember when I heard applause the first time, I went, it's not basketball, but there's something here. Of course. Yeah. Listen, I wanted to be an astronaut.
Because I grew up in the 60s, right? So all the kids, I was born in 1960. So if you were born in 1960 and you saw the space program, you were like, this is the be all and end all. This is going into outer space. It was like beyond anything. And then I realized, you know what my favorite part of being the astronaut, the coolest part? Being on the Ed Sullivan show. Yeah.
And maybe I just try to get there without the dangerous shit on the rocket that might blow up. This is just a side note, but I was with Senator Mark Kelly.
Yes, great guy.
And started singing because she wanted to say, hi, I know who you are. Love, cheers. And that was her way of doing it. It's practically making me cry. Did it make you cry? Oh, yeah. I would lose it. Yeah. It was just the most amazing moment I've ever had regarding... Did you see her documentary? That's awesome, that movie. Yeah. What a hero she is. Unbelievable. And her husband. Great people. But Mark Kelly, right after dinner, it was a fundraising dinner and there were about 20 people there and...
They were asking all the end-of-the-world questions and how horrible and what are we going to do and how do you deal with this? And my turn, you know, and I said, I walk in a room. I listen to all of this, this hard stuff, you know, that we're all talking about that's very real, but it's really hard and it's complicated with people doing stupid things and mean things and all of that. But I walk in the room and I see you and Gabby and you have a sparkle in your eye and you're a very happy person.
undeterred man who's going to do what's right. Yes. And not be, you know, I said, how do you do that? How do you balance listening to this horrible stuff that you have to listen to and be happy? He said, well, you got to remember, I was strapped onto the back of a rocket four times and shot into space. The fourth time was immediately after all of his friends died in the explosion. So,
You know, don't sweat the small stuff that comes to mind for astronauts. I can't even fathom doing it. I would never in a million years. No. I had to be in a race car in the show. Like they took me around the Formula One track in Austin. Right.
With a professional driver, I went 187 miles an hour. Did you ever do this? No. Don't. No. It's the most violent, horrible thing I've ever experienced. It is violent, right? We see it on TV. We have no idea. It looks like, yeah, it looks like they're going fast, but it looks smooth. It looks like zoom, zoom, zoom. No. No.
You, when that thing takes off like a rocket, you are pinned back so violently. And then when they go into a turn, it's not just, they turn and you go smoothly. They hit the brakes as you would have to going into a turn at any speed. Yeah. But because he's going 187, he hits it like a ton of bricks. So it's like you're crashing into a wall and then it
turns screeching like mad. You're pinned to one side. You're then thrown to the other side as you come out of the turn. You're then thrown backwards again as it takes off. This goes on for two and a half years.
Yeah, I felt like two and a half years. I love that. One lap. One lap. You're like, when will this end? I can't go on rides anymore. They are athletes. They have to be. I mean, they have to. And I look at him during a straightaway, and he's got the biggest smile on his face because, yeah, he's 22. Yeah. Yeah.
And he's driving. He knows what's going to happen. As a passenger, you have no idea. I come out of the car. I'm shaking. And the crew comes over, having seen, because the cameras were just on my face, crying, laughing. This is the best thing we've ever shot. It's the worst moment of my life. And was that producer your brother? Of course. Yes. He said, okay, listen, we need to get the exteriors for this next lap. I'm like, there is no next lap, Richard.
He goes, but we need the extras. I took off my helmet. I gave it to him. You get in the goddamn car. And he did. And half a lap later, I see the car slow down and stop. And out of the car comes Richard shaking. That's right, Richard.
My kids won't go to a carnival with me because at one time I was in the teacups. You know the teacups? Yes, they're designed to make you throw up. I was begging the controller. Please stop. Please stop. No, I'm serious. Please stop. Because all it is, I don't understand. I know when you're a kid, you love nothing more. The rides are designed to imitate daddy throwing you up in the air. And if you're daddy, you're just throwing up. Ha!
I can't anymore. I literally can't. Yeah. I was, I went to Disney World recently. They wanted to show me around. They said, we've got a ride for you.
They put me on Guardians of the Galaxy ride. They said, this is the state of the art of rides. I'm like, it's really not for me. They said, guarantee you're going to like it. Guarantee you I don't. And sure enough, I wanted to die because it's not just Space Mountain. You know what that is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've been on that. It was fun.
Okay, I wonder if you'd think it was fun today. That's true. That was 40 years ago. 40 years ago. Different inner ear. Yeah. Different stomach, right?
I'm just it's not just how it is. I loved it, too, 40 years ago. And now I'm like, not only is it Space Mountain, but the movie is around you. Oh, and not only are you zooming, you're spinning. And not only you're spinning at one point, it stops and goes backwards. The whole thing. Yeah.
I wanted to die. They said, we have one more ride. I said, no more rides. They said, no, this is for you because this has food. This is Ratatouille. So it's a kiddie ride. The way like you go through Peter Pan, you see the different dioramas, except now because 2023, they've souped it up. So there's dips and things and they spray water in your face and the giant movie is in front of you and you're dipping and going and it's nauseating. Yeah. Please, Disney, stop.
Stop being nice to me. Stop. I just can't. I just can't do it anymore. Okay, I want to go back again because I want to learn stuff about you. You started acting a little bit in college? High school even. High school. Junior high school. And was this... All I wanted to be was funny on stage like my dad. That's all and everyone I saw on TV.
I watched way too much TV as a child. What were you thinking? I might do stand-up or I might be an actor. I wanted to be, I think, tell me if this was you in any way. I didn't know when I was little that there was writing and directing and producing. I would watch The Honeymooners. Right. Every night. They were in reruns when I was a kid.
I just wanted to be, you know, Ralph and Norton. I just loved being the characters and I could imitate them and I could stay up later at my with my parents if I found if I could make them laugh. So that was my way. I did stand up once when I was 19 in a jazz club as an amateur night.
Thank God Monica wasn't there that night. Bye-bye Ben and Lily. Right. So that was a wake-up call. No, stick to being someone else or be a character. And did that carry through into college? Yeah. I was encouraged. I was a very big star in high school. And I was encouraged to go to
school for theater right so i went to hofstra had they had a great theater program and and uh i was a very big star in college too and then i moved to new york and no one called new york to tell them what a big star i was in high school yeah and so i cut to me selling farm and implement cleaner on the phone cold calling people in a in a in a you know what do you call those rooms
Boiler room. Ooh. Right? Yeah. Phones and phones and phones. There's a series on right now. Can't plug them. Yeah. But if this is after, telemarketers, it's called. Oh, oh. Very interesting. Oh, great. Yeah, somebody else said that. All a scam. All terrible. Yeah. So I was one of those guys. Lasted four weeks at that job. And when did you get, did you get paid to act in New York? Not really. Yeah. I couldn't even get an agent. It was awful. But I went from job to job, odd job. I was a security guard at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Yeah. Wow. That same roommate that I told you about turned me on to the world of art. He worked at the information desk. And when I lost my job telemarketing, he said, you could be a guard.
You don't need any training for that. You put on a suit and you tell people don't touch the art and you tell them down the hall, second door on the left. And was it like an art class for you in a way? Absolutely. Because all you do is stand there all day. And then I worked the shift from four to midnight, which is after the museum is closed. So you're in empty galleries. And you know how you don't have time to read all the things next to the paintings? I did.
What an education. It was awesome. And then I worked midnight to eight in the morning. That's called the graveyard shift. Have you ever done that? I did it in a can factory, but go on. In a can factory. Yeah, oof. Pittsburgh. That sounds like fun. And did you notice this? People that worked the graveyard shift from midnight to eight in the morning, those people, you know why they do that? Because they can't get along with regular people during the day. That's what I found. It was, everyone was just this side of the law if...
Right. Even on this side of the law.
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So speaking of breaking the law, I was working midnight, day in the morning. Why? Because I got into a play. So now I'm rehearsing during the day and now we start performances at night and I have just enough time to get to my job midnight, day in the morning. And I'm 21 years old and I think I can do this. And the third night without sleep, they found me asleep.
On a 300-year-old bed in a gallery. Oh. Yes. And I was fired. On the spot. On the spot. That was 1981. And I went from odd job to odd job. It was embarrassing. I was humiliated. My roommate who worked at the information desk the next morning said, you know, there's only one room closed for the Metropolitan Museum of Art today. It's your room.
Yes. Because you messed up. A guard slept on a work of art. The dispatch guy, he's a cop. You know, the guy who runs dispatch, he goes, listen, as he's firing me, he goes, listen, to me, it's a bed. To you, it's a bed. To them, it's a work of art. You're fine. And they open the back door of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, which is Central Park at one in the morning. They throw you out.
And it was the most humiliating thing that's ever happened to me. And I went from odd job to odd job after that. I worked as a bartender. I had no idea how to bartend, but I did it. I worked in telemarketing. I told you I did temp work. I worked for a movie company selling movies to colleges, which is something that I did. I ran the film program showing movies to kids on the weekends at Hofstra. So I knew how it worked from the other direction.
And I did that for a few years, all the while trying to get a show. And then some friends of mine and I wrote a show for ourselves to be in. And that became successful. At the same time, my friend Alan Kirshenbaum came over to my apartment with a word processor and said, let's write a screenplay together. And we did. And sometimes God shows you what you're supposed to be. We sold that screenplay.
right away to HBO for $70,000 in 1988. That was when I told my parents. My father was so thrilled. I was like, the American dream has come true. And my mother got up. Why is your father dancing on the roof? What is going on? I said, Alan and I sold a screenplay.
Your first screenplay? Yes. You sold it? Yes. What do you get for something like that? I said, $70,000. And the phone went silent. I said, Ma? She said, do you know we've worked our whole lives to have that in the bank? She wasn't, she couldn't even be happy. She was stunned at the value system of the country, right? A teacher doesn't make half of that. Right. And you little pisher, you scribble some jokes on a paper and you get that? Well, it's not right. I said, you're right, Ma, it's not. But-
I've been eating tuna fish for dinner and now I'm going to eat whatever I want. I moved to Hollywood because we thought the screenplay was going to get made. It didn't.
But I moved because it seemed like I should be a writer. And so I get here. I get a new partner. Alan was already working with Ed Weinberger on a show as a solo writer. He didn't need me. So a friend of mine, Oliver Goldstick, was a playwright at Columbia Grad School whose plays I had been in. He was out here already trying to, he said, you want to write a spec script for a sitcom? I said, sure. And the spec script we wrote was for Roseanne. And what should the story be? This is 1989.
So, I said, we couldn't wait to rack in our brains. How about this? How about the husband? They don't have enough money. So, he gets a second job at night as a guard in the museum. And he falls asleep on a 300-year-old bed. And we wrote that. And we sent it around. And all the agents in town said, what an imagination. And we were hired immediately on a show. It happened that fast. Not on Roseanne. No. Nope.
But that's how it works. The spec script goes around. You're never, you must have found this on Cheers. Most of the time, the outside writer, they don't know the show. They don't know. And it has nothing to do with they could write it. They couldn't write it. You're going in another direction that they couldn't possibly know because they don't work there. Right. But we did get hired. Do you know, did I tell you this? No. My first show? No. I got hired on a sitcom for Robert Mitchum.
A sitcom for Robert Mitchum. Wow. This was 1989. What was it called? Family for Joe. Robert Mitchum. Did you ever meet Robert Mitchum? Never. And regret it. You would have loved him and he would have loved you. He was a great guy, but very gruff and very no nonsense.
He enjoyed marijuana, too, my understanding. Early on in his career, he... Robert Mitchum for Zaza's. Sorry, go on. So, remember TV movies? They were a thing. Yeah, yeah. Huge. Huge thing. You've probably done your share. It was what you did in the summer after... Right? And they got great ratings. So, this thing, this was a TV movie about Robert Mitchum as a homeless man living in a refrigerator box in Central Park.
Three recently orphaned children come and say, would you pretend to be our grandpa so we're not split up and put into separate foster homes? That's a great plot. And that's the movie. The movie was the highest testing anything in NBC history, including your show, including Cosby Show of the 80s. Swear to God, they couldn't leave it alone. It was so high testing, this movie, they said, we need a backdoor pilot. This has to be
A sitcom. So they make a sitcom in front of an audience with a Brady Bunch set. And the very first moment of the very first show, there's an empty Brady Bunch looking set. You hear ding dong. You hear offstage. I'll get it. It's Robert Mitchum. The kitchen door opens. In comes Robert Mitchum on a sitcom stage wearing a flowered apron.
And he pauses before he gets to the door to adjust the flowers on the table. They castrated him immediately. Oh, why? The most the most terrible word in television from an executive likable. The show was dead. My grandmother would have said, don't do that. That's the only chance at humor is that he's gruff. Robert Mitchum, like Uncle Charlie on My Three Sons. That's the only chance you have for laughs. Yeah, right.
By the way, the children on that show were Ben Savage. And this girl comes into the audition. She's 16. She's recently been emancipated from her parents at 16. Her name is Juliette Lewis. Oh, wow. And she was fantastic. Wonderful. She was in the show, too. She went right from our show, which was canceled after seven, by the way, into Cape Fear with Martin Squissies. So it was an amazing learning experience. What you can learn.
From your first show, you can learn on any show. You just have to know how the machine works, right? And at this point, had you met Monica or no? Oh, yeah. I met Monica in 1986. I saw her in a play. In New York. Yeah. Mutual friends from Hofstra. She transferred in after I graduated. So my friends from Hofstra were doing a play. Here's this girl I never saw before, but she's really funny. And I said, tell that girl she's funny after the show. And then I ran away.
And then a week later, I'm at the Ninth Avenue Food Festival, which is they close off 37th Street to 57th Street on Ninth Avenue. And it's wall to wall food on both sides. And I'm walking down the street. I'm eating a rib. And here comes, oh, the funny girl. I'm a big fan of yours, I say to her. She says, I'm a big fan of yours, too. And I'm very flattered. And I think she must have come to Hofstra when I was a big star there and seen everything. No, she lied. She lied. The whole thing's based on a lie.
So I'm here to say on your podcast, it's over, Monica. I'm on to you. Is that why you sent her to Philadelphia? That's it. Yeah. It's all built on. You know, then we're going to get it. We're going to get some. Hey, lies aren't all. That's true. Just just to recap.
All of the things that I was just asking you about being the renaissance man in love with music and curious. This is why. This life. That was you. This life. That was you even before L.A. You got it. You did all of that. All that. You did movie nights. Oh, yes. I did. I was doing movie nights when I was 15 because when I was 15 in New City, New York in Rockland County suburb, here comes HBO. And HBO is the first time, you know this, but.
probably a lot of listeners have no idea that HBO was the first time you could watch an uncut, uninterrupted, uncensored movie in your house. Yeah. There was no other way. There was no VHS or Laserdisc or Blu-ray or streaming. And so when I'm 15, there's a new, did you know there was a new R-rated movie every Saturday night? So my other, I call my other idiot friends, come over, we may see something. Ha ha ha.
And I'd order pizza, and that was movie night. That's great. Yes. Okay, so now you're in L.A. How far away are you from Everybody Loves Raymond at that point? Five years away. Five years. So Oliver and I, we go from bad show to bad show, and then we got on Coach.
and worked for Barry Kemp. And that was a big hit show. Big hit. And I learned, you know, a lot from that too. And in my third year of being on that, Oliver and I am amicably split up because you know the deal with partners. They pay you one salary and you split it. And after a while, you feel like you're good enough that you don't
You know, we should get paid as one person each. We don't sit in the writer's room and huddle before we each say something. We're two individuals. Right. But I do recommend to anyone listening, if you want to start in the business, being a partner is a very good way to start because, first of all, you're a bargain. Second of all, you have someone to bounce your stuff off of before you have the confidence in your own head. Yeah. So that's great.
So I love Oliver and I love doing it with him. But now I'm a solo guy. And on my first solo year there, I get a video cassette of a comedian. They're looking for writers. This comedian had been on Letterman one time after 12 years of trying to get on. One six-minute appearance and Letterman says, there should be a show for that Ray Romano guy. And I see the video cassette and I fall in love with it. In fact, I had already seen it. I had already seen the night he was on because I never missed Letterman. And we meet.
Who set that up? The agents that do these things. You know, I think he must have read a spec script of mine. I think I wrote a Frasier at that time because I now had to establish myself as a solo. Right. So they read it. They liked it enough to meet. He met with a dozen guys.
I don't think I was his first choice. A guy who wrote Friends was his first choice, but he didn't want to do it. Now, was Ray Romano at that point Ray Romano, or was he just... He was just stand-up. A great stand-up. The world didn't know that well, or did they? Maybe he had HBO Half Hour. Remember when they did those? I think that's it. He was well-known on the comedy club circuit. So, I meet him, and I always tell this story that...
I said, tell me about yourself just as I would with you if we're just meeting and we might work together. And we don't know what the show would be. He said, well, I got twin boys and an older daughter. My family lives close by and they're always bothering me. My brother's a police sergeant and he lives with them. And he's kind of jealous of me. In fact, he saw my award for stand up and he goes, everybody loves Raymond. Never ends for Raymond. I'm like, wow. Wow.
Well, it doesn't seem like there's anything there we can use. Yeah. That's great. And then what I didn't know about his, the personality of the family, I filled in with my family. Yeah. I have so much respect for Ray Romano. Not only was he brilliant in your show, but he went on to do
He was bold and brave and would do all sorts of different characters. And he's a great actor. He's a really good actor. Speaking of Scorsese. Yeah. Cast him in that. Yeah. Cast him in The Irishman. Yeah. And then he made his own movie that he wrote and produced and directed and stars in. Oh, wow. And that's called Somewhere in Queens. And it's fantastic. Oh, fantastic. Yeah. I'll find it. So I'm, you know, triply proud of him. I mean, he's just, he's great.
He's great. And he's the kind of neurotic guy who is the best kind of neurotic because he only hurts himself. Is he bemused? Does he get the joke? Of course. Yes. He knows he's crazy. Of course. Okay. So how long, when did you guys go, oh, we're a hit? Was it third year? The third episode of the show. I mean, I thought as we're casting even, oh, I'm getting lucky here.
When Doris Roberts comes in and nails this monologue, this speech that was verbatim from my mother. Verbatim. It was the scene that I believe got us on the show because no one else had a scene like this, which is a lesson in being as specific as you can be. Yeah. Right? It was, I gave my parents Fruit of the Month Club for Hanukkah. I thought I was being nice and I got that call from my mother saying,
Philip, we got your Hanukkah present. Did you know it was a box of pears? And I said, yeah, you like them? Oh, oh, yes, they're very nice. But there's over a dozen pears here. How am I going to eat all these pears? I said, well, give them to dad. Okay, but how many pears can your father eat?
please don't ever send us any more food again. It's too much. I said, okay, well, you know, another box is coming next month. She said, what, more pears? I said, no, a different box every month. She said, every month? Max, you got us in some kind of cult. Please don't do this. I said, I don't know what to tell you. I can't talk anymore. There's too much fruit in the house. So I put that scene in the
I remember it well. And Doris knocked it out of the park. She was perfect at doing that. I don't know. We might be related. I don't know what it is. But no one else even came close. I have to be honest. I saw 100 ladies for that part. No one came close. And that's how I felt about every one of them. When Brad Garrett walked in the room and we were looking for a shorter, older brother to be jealous of Ray because that's what he has in real life. So I was looking for little guys.
And then this talking tree came in the room with that voice. Yeah. And we all fell over laughing. It was better than what we thought. Yeah. You have to be open to that too, right? Yeah. And I just got really lucky. And I'm blanking on Doris's husband's name. Peter Boyle? Yeah, Peter. Oh my God. That was actually the head of CBS said, how about Peter Boyle for that part? And I'm like, what do you mean? We could get Peter Boyle? He's a movie star. I never thought for a second that he'd even be available. I'm going for known TV people. And he came in and scared the hell out of me. I just gave him the part.
I'll never forget him and Joe. Remember Joe? Yes. Yeah. Yes. He shot kids like me for breakfast. What a wonderful cast. But you know what? Talk about liberal. Here's two things maybe people don't know about him. He studied to be a monk. He studied to be a monk. And when I asked him, what made you give that up? He said, not enough girls. And then the best man at his wedding was John Lennon.
Wow. That's cool. You don't expect Joe to have John Lennon. No, no. So that was phenomenal. Yeah. All great. And when did you go, oh, we're a hit? When did the world? So it happens incrementally. First, we made it on the schedule. Right, right. Almost as an afterthought. Friday nights at
8.30 after Dave's World. I think there hadn't been a hit in that time slot since Gomer Pyle. So we don't know then. And then, you know, when you're first starting a sitcom, they don't know you, the audience, the literal studio audience that comes. My hand to God, did you ever have this? Old age home and inmates. Yeah. Bust in from jail. And you're just hoping to keep their attention so one guy doesn't go, hey, let's kill that old lady. Right.
But the third episode, there was a moment where I think there was an IQ test that Ray and his wife took and Ray scored higher. And he was very smug about it and said the wrong thing while his wife was eating ice cream on the couch next to him. And she took the bowl of ice cream without saying anything and just turned it over on his lap.
And the audience went crazy. The laugh went on for over 30 seconds. Wow. Which is a rarity. Yeah. It means that not only, yes, that's a funny physical gag, but it wouldn't go on that long if they weren't connecting to something larger than just our little sitcom. They understood a truth about men and women, husbands and wives. Yeah.
And I turned to one of the other writers right then and there during the laugh. I said, we're all going to be millionaires. That's fantastic. I said it as a joke, but the truth is that is the key to success right there. When you can tap into the universal thing and you don't hit that universal thing unless you're very specific. In Cheers, that wasn't a generic bar. That was a very specific bar with very specific characters.
with very specific personalities and problems. It's true. I mean, I picked up script as an actor and got... Well, actually, my character and my wife's character could trade lines and it wouldn't make any difference. Because all you're hearing is the writer. Yeah. You have to...
And for me, the cheat was I had these beautiful parents that I could always draw from. Right. I had my wife that I could draw from. If you worked for me, I would say, go home, get in a fight with your wife, come back in and tell me about it. And that's 90% of the show was that of something that happened to me or to Ray or to one of the other writers. Here's a fight between Mary and me. Yes. Mary says, are you mad? And I go, no.
And she knows that I'm furious. Oh, my God. So that's what we call in the business Gentile problems.
Okay, going back to your mom. Right, Yiddish. What did your mom say when you all of a sudden were being syndicated and making those large numbers that one makes when you're successful? Couldn't understand her whole life. Couldn't understand. Like, what the hell? I couldn't even tell her. Yeah. Syndication money. She understood that, you know, it's money.
And you and I and the people around us were lucky enough to get in and out of that business, which does not exist anymore. No, it doesn't. At the peak of history. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I don't know what the future is. Yeah.
Can you figure it out? I'll tell you what Larry Gelbart said. Spiritual plays, church plays, you know, we'll be acting in churches. We'll be back to those in our caves. Yes. Larry Gelbart, the great comedy writer, wrote MASH, Tootsie, that has my favorite line about all this. I was lucky enough to be friends with him and I was having lunch with him and Norman Lear.
And he asked me, what's it like to pitch a show now? Larry says. And I start to tell him. And about two lines in, he stops me and he turns to Norman. He says, we're dying just in time.
Just how I feel about a lot of things. Yeah, it's true. There are a lot of things that we're ducking out of. I'm sorry, kids. Good luck. Nowadays, if older people die, you should be yelling, chicken, you big chicken. Hang in there. Come on. You screwed it all up and now you leave?
I don't know how much time we have, but we have to transist into... Whatever you want. We have to talk about what it's like to be behind the scenes. Yeah. Hugely successful. Yeah. And now all of a sudden, somebody feed Phil, all of a sudden...
You are now recognizable wherever you go. This is a very good third act, I think. Yes. And you enjoy it. Love it. Who wouldn't love it? Look what I get to do. I'm the luckiest guy you're ever going to sit with. That's really how I feel. You might have big, big stars coming in here. I am the luckiest. I agree. And you love it. I mean, you love it. I do. I love that. I love that response because...
People come at you with smiles and thank you for being part of something that made me laugh. Who wouldn't like this? Yeah. And the work itself. Yeah. Travel, show. When I told my brother that I got this show, what is it again? He goes, I said, I'm going to travel the world and try to get you to travel the world by showing you the best places in the world to eat. He said, they're going to let you do that show. I said, yes. What are they going to call the show? The Lucky Bastard?
I said, quit your job. He was already a producer. Quit your job. Come produce the show with me and we'll call our production company Lucky Bastards. And that's the logo at the end of the show. Oh, I didn't notice that. Oh, that's great. It's two stick figures. Yeah. Lucky Bastards. On top of the world. Oh, that's great.
That's great. My last line as Sam Malone was, I'm the luckiest son of a bitch in the world. Oh. Isn't that a great last line for a character? Isn't that sweet? Yeah. I'm going to cry thinking about that last moment of that show. Sorry we're closed. Yeah. And you know who they said it to? Brandon. No. It was over the shoulder of Bob Broder. It wasn't Brandon Tartikoff? It was Bob Broder, who is the lesson Glenn and Jimmy, the creators. Their agent. Their agent.
That's hysterical. Why did I think it was Brandon Tartikoff? He was around. He was there for that shoot. He was on camera. Okay. But it was Bob Broder, yeah. And then you guys had the most notorious on-camera cast party, wrap party ever.
In the history of television, on Leno. Yeah, on Leno. And in our defense... I like any story that starts with, in our defense. They brought us... This was going to be the final episode, the airing of the final episode. But we had finished shooting it three months before that. Yes. So we hadn't seen each other for three months. Right. It's the airing of the show. Yes. Yes.
So it was an emotional, wonderful reunion. Yes. And we were going to then go from watching it straight into Jay Leno. But they brought us to the Bull and Finch, the bar that was the facade for the show. Yeah. At 2 o'clock in the afternoon.
And it wasn't until 11.30 or 11 or whenever. So you have nothing else to do. Except drink. Yes. Get stoned. Yes. And carry on to the point of almost being, you know, unable to stand up. And they put us in these big director, tall director chairs. And Jay was busy. I think this was early on in his reign. You know, was busy making notes. And he didn't really look up until they went five, four, three, two, one. And he looked up.
and saw this cast that was falling out of their chairs and thought, oh, dear God. Oh, my God. We got a lot of shit for that. People were not amused. There was a lot of people. I was. But I had no idea it was nine hours of prep. That's awesome. What a great, that's a great show business story. And that tape exists. You can revisit that. Here's our thing. We rap.
And that night, you must have had a cast party that night. Yes, yes, big party. So we wrap, and we're having the little party on the stage. And I go behind the set to grab a soda, and the big fridge is gone that night. Wow. I said to the stagehand, where's the big fridge? He said, they need it for another show down the street. Yeah. Yeah.
That's your business. The train keeps going. Just because you got off doesn't mean the train keeps going. For nine years. And the moment you're done, you're done. Yeah. Also, I was at Paramount for a total of 17 years. Wow. 11 with Shears, 6 with Becker and something else. Amazing. And I pretty much knew the people, the guards, families, names. Yes.
It was like home. Yep. Until the day that you're not on, you know. On the caution. Not that they were rude. No. But it was like, party's over. No, you need to go park in the visitor's parking lot. You got it. You know. I have to walk? Yeah. To walk? Wasn't I a somebody? Wait a minute. Okay. How about, how about.
I know it's a lot of work to travel around the world, fly someplace. Only physically. Yeah. Is that it, really? I like every part. I swear to you, I love going to the airport. I love going. I'm taking off my belt. I'm putting on the bag on the thing. I'm going somewhere.
And now I get to sit in the lounge and relax a little before the thing. And then I go to my seat and I'm going to watch movies and I'm going to get there and check in and
Walk around the new place. And is there an advanced team that sets us up here so that you just have to kind of show up and have fun in the moment? We do a lot of research. We do research that anybody can do. You go to your phone, you look up best place to eat in Copenhagen, and then
You know, you Google stuff and you start making lists. And then, you know, I have something that maybe you don't have, which is a production company in New York. And they used to be Anthony Bourdain's production company. So they have fixers all over the world because he was on for 18 years. Yeah. Right. Yes.
So they know a lot. So I say, what about this restaurant in Copenhagen? They go, that was three years ago. That was the thing. This is the new thing. This is the better. And then we leave room in the schedule for serendipity, as I advise anyone who goes and travels to do. Yeah, you want to make sure you don't miss the big stuff, but leave room for stuff to happen. You've done this where you're tired. It's raining. Your plane is late. You get in. Let's just eat. You go next door. Merely your life.
That can happen. But it can't happen if you're sitting home watching somebody feed Phil. You have to go, people. That's what I'm saying. Or street food. Love. Love. And are you taking a chance sometimes? Yes. But if you want to lessen the odds of something bad happening, look for the street food that has a bit of a line. Because if they were poisoning people, the line wouldn't be so long.
Phil, I love you. I adore you. I appreciate so much what you put out into the world. Thank you. You put it out in the world, but you're no different than when you and I go out to dinner with Monica and Mary. You are putting out that same thing all the time. You are consistently, you know, Phil, really appreciate you. I appreciate you. I'm so glad that we met this late in life. Yeah.
Because who's to say if we met earlier, you wouldn't be sick of me already. Yeah. I caught you at a good time. Yeah. No benches for us quite yet. No. That was Phil Rosenthal. Thank you, Phil. I hope to see you for lunch sometime soon because you always pay. I don't know why. Probably because you're Mr. Food. It's appreciated. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love.
As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating or, you know, whatever is truthful, as long as it's great, and review on Apple Podcasts if you have a sec. We will have more for you all next week. Everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Leal, and
Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grawl. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gann, Mary Steenburgen, and John Osborne. Special thanks to Willie Navarro. We'll have more for you next time where everybody knows your name.
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