Stephen Merchant
01:05:31 Share

where everybody knows your name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson sometimes, is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the Name Your Price tool from Progressive,

you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it at Progressive.com, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

Not available in all states. This message is brought to you by Apple Pay. Forget your wallet? It's all good. Because with Apple Pay, you can pay with a simple tap of your iPhone, a wallet you never forget. At millions of places worldwide, including websites, apps, and anywhere you see the contactless symbol. Security is built in with Face ID, so you don't have to worry about your cards getting lost or stolen.

And the best part, you still earn the card rewards, points, and cash back you love. So say goodbye to the buy fold. Add your card to Apple Wallet and start paying the Apple way. Terms apply. It's very, very hard to do anything well. And to do something well where you also need to have laughs every 10 seconds, that's really tough. Really hard.

Welcome back to Everybody Knows Your Name with me, Ted Danson, and Woody Harrelson, sometimes. Today I'm with a multi-talented comedian, actor, writer, director. His name is Stephen Merchant, and you know him from his work on The Office, Extras, Hello Ladies, and The Office.

And he's done dramatic work, stage work. Last night I devoured what was new to me was Outlaws. And it's just delightful. It's funny and scary and just very engaging. So can't wait for you to check that out. He is a super smart, delightful human being. Here's Stephen Merchant. I had the best time with you on The Good Place. So much fun. So much fun. How did they get you?

Did you know about the show? I knew about the show and also just an admirer of Mike Schur as well from his work on The Office. Of course, you knew each other then. I'm sorry. I think there was probably a...

begging email from mike yeah for sure i can't remember but it was no i was i loved the show and it was a pleasure to be asked and to work with you as well was it was definitely uh was definitely one of the impulses that's why i asked the question okay i can relax now yeah well we can talk i mean we can talk at length if you want about what an impact cheers had on the office

In terms of the conception, the writing, you know, but we don't have to hear English, the English version. And in a sense, the DNA of the English version was in the American one. And, um, they, it definitely, I remember when I was working with Ricky on the British version, it became a conversation because, and I, people often say to me, like, what's the difference between American comedy and British comedy? And, um,

In British comedy, traditionally, there's often been a sort of built-in bleakness that we're kind of willing as a British audience to accept and to sort of indulge. Whereas American comedy, traditionally, American sitcom was seen as being brighter and kind of a bit more optimistic. And yet if you pull back, you know, a couple of the layers of the characters in Cheers...

they are sad people, right? You know, Norm with that kind of, sort of hates his job and has this kind of, this loveless marriage, it seems. And, you know, and your characters, obviously a recovering alcoholic and they're all quite- Who will never be with any woman. Will never be with a woman and be happy. And so, and you can do that with all, you know, Carla, all of them have that. There's a sadness to it. And if you took it all, if you took the audience laughter and the jokes out, it would be a sort of bleak,

existential play about, you know, kind of sad lives. Yeah. And so Norm, for instance, was a big influence on the character of Tim played by Martin Freeman in the British version that Jim John Krasinski in the American one, that idea of a guy sort of found himself in a job

That wasn't his dream. Right. And it's kind of doing things to get through the day. Yeah. You know what I mean? Um, rather than sort of change anything in his life. Um, and the idea of the sort of sardonic put downs as a way of sort of dealing with, um,

you know, what feels really like a kind of bleak existential existence of like, what is my purpose in life? And so I know that sounds very heavy, but it's sort of, I suppose what we, you know, we took some of those elements and because we didn't have an audience laugh track, can we sort of let the awkward silences sit? A lot of that

the pathos and sort of sadness that was inherent in a show like cheers came to the fore, at least in the British version of the, of the show, you know? Right. And also I guess that idea of the sort of surrogate family, right? The idea of people in an environment who have become almost like a family in your case, because of the bar in our case, because of an office, but they don't, they have nothing else in common, right? Except they're,

to the, to each other in that, in that space. How long did America get to see your version before, uh, the American version of the office came out? I would imagine there were like 14 people that saw it. No, I, I was one of, yeah. And I think probably.

Probably within a couple of years of, of our version, it was on American screens. Yeah. I know you were executive producing. Did you guys write the pilot or not? No, they, they based the first season of the American version loosely on our, on our seasons. And, um, and we did write an episode later. Um, but no, there were pretty much, you know, the American team was sort of off to the races. Based actual storylines.

It kind of loosely, but I think the more in a way, the more they got away from our version from season two onwards, I think the more it found its own groove and the more it's appeal went partly because I think they did. They dialed back some of that. Yes. Um, I remember seeing the pilot of the American version, Steve Carell, and he was not Ricky, uh,

Yeah. But close, adjacent. Yeah. And then I don't know if it was when they came back or there was a break as happens sometimes after a pilot, but it was a different version. Yes. Of his character that, I mean, he was.

Definitely the wonderful pompous idiot. But they'd soften the edges, hadn't they? Yeah. He didn't. Yeah. Not many people can do Ricky Gervais and survive. That's right. Yeah. You know? Well, I think that's the thing about Steve is I think Carell has such an innate warmth. Yeah. That the more they leaned into that.

that warmth that he naturally has, um, the more they, he can kind of be the outrageous buffoon and Steve's sort of DNA will, will keep you on side, you know, um, again, to go back to cheers. Like I think, you know, you talk about the acerbic lines, but again, I think if you didn't have the audience laughing along, there were some very cutting lines that

that the characters in that bar would share. You know, again, if you didn't have the audience to kind of say, Hey, it's okay. Some of Carla's put downs and you know, there was a, there was a spikiness to it that, that, uh, felt very real. Um,

Cliff Clavin, the mailman, was the recipient of some of the most. It took so much of a beating. Again, another great example of a, lives with his mother. You know, it's just, again, you could imagine he would have been like a shooter in another version of that show. Yeah. That's funny. Have you done, I'm trying to think of what comedies you've done that did have a laugh track, that either a laugh track or an audience. Well, I've done some guest spots. I did a guest spot on the Big Bang Theory.

Chiefly for that reason. No, I'm sorry. I meant, but go on. Sorry. Finish. Certainly in the UK. No, we haven't. Not in terms of stuff I've myself written. We've never done stuff with a live audience. Um, and is that common or uncommon to have a live audience? I think it used to be. Used to be just like it used to be here. I think it's sort of fading away now. Um, yeah.

But I did a guest spot on the Big Bang Theory chiefly because I wanted to experience that, doing a sitcom with a live audience and sort of feeling the way it impacts the performance and the way the writers are throwing in new ideas or adapting based on the crowd, which is a completely different thing for me. The audience, I think, just takes you someplace that you have not gone during the week. And it can be very funny doing rehearsals.

And sometimes we would have to shoot. We'd let the audience go after shooting it and then stick camera someplace or something really didn't work and they'd tinker with it and the audience wasn't there. They almost never used that reshoot because the energy level and the excitement, and not just from their laughter, but the energy is just so vibrant when they are. But it's interesting you say that because

For me, the temptation is to really lean into the crowd and to kind of amplify your performance. And the thing I was always struck by, particularly in your performance, is that there was a sort of relaxed...

kind of effortlessness to it. It never felt like you were playing up to the crowd. Is that something that you just no lack of talent? I just couldn't. I try, but my job was different. My job was to behold all of the wonderful buffoons and, uh, far out characters and be the, the audience's way into loving them.

Yeah, but I think you're doing, yeah, but you're doing, you're being modest. It's false humility, by the way. No, but I'm interested because it's, it, it, that one of the things that struck me is, is the sort of, there's a kind of ease to your performance. That's just, that's so, that's so relaxed. And is that from stage experience? Is that? No, you know, I don't know. Were you stoned the whole time? Afterwards, after the show.

My mind has, I won't tell you the whole story because I've told it before, but it's like Woody and I, after the show, really stoned. We hadn't been drinking, but it's really stoned. Driving home on Sunset Boulevard and car phones had just come in, you know, and we were talking and just had the most amazing philosophical silence.

stoned conversation and two cops pulled both of our cars over simultaneously. Wow. I could hear on the guy's radio, oh, wait till you see who I got. And he said, wait till you see who I got. We got pulled over for going 12 miles an hour on sunset. Just so...

so ripped and having the most delicious casual drive. Anyway, I always, I don't know where I got this, whether it could have been Jimmy Burroughs who directed all of them and was really my show business daddy. He was my, you know, this is how you do it teacher. I always look at jokes as kind of how homeopathic can it be? How close to not

Touching the actual joke and still have it be funny. That's a great summary of the way you do it. Cause that's, that's what's, I mean, I still watch it now whenever it comes on and it's this, that's exactly what it is. You know, it never feels like you're selling the joke. You're never leaning into it. You just, it's, it's, it's a really, it's a kind of, you

You make it look way easier than it is as someone who's from comedy. Thanks. That's really kind because I admire you so much. The other thing I think that you do, and I know I'm sure you do this too, is when you have a joke, you don't know if it's going to fly away.

in front of the audience or not, or to what degree and others. So always have a back door, always be doing something more interesting, physically doing something more interesting than the joke. So you can continue cutting that lemon as if it was, I knew it wasn't funny. I don't give a shit. You know, is that why you're, you're often topping up your coffee? Yes. Yeah. Hey, I am jumping around, but, uh,

you made it really hard to do research on you because I would go, Oh, here's a clip. And then I'd get sucked into the clip. Mary and I sat there and watched four episodes of not the, but outlaws. Oh yeah. Right. Oh, thank you. Oh, Steven. It's, it's brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. It really is. It's my favorite kind of comedy. There are funny things in it. Obviously the characters are so well drawn out and acted and,

And you care about, and they're believably, not scummy, but believably damaged, low-rent criminals. They have indeed broken the law. And you grow to love them. And the villain is scarier than shit. We just left when we thought her parents were going to,

Yeah. You know, that moment. I won't go into it for those. But it's really, really worth watching. It is so good for those people who haven't seen it. It's just brilliant. Oh, that's very kind of you. Thank you so much. Really lovely. Thank you. Well, that was a show that originated because...

for those that haven't seen it it's about people doing as we call it in the uk community service or community payback you let you say you get the small crime the dui whatever and you uh you instead of sending you to prison they make you pick up trash or whatever and that came about because my mother used to was involved in that world she was not a criminal she uh supervised criminals right and through much of my kind of late teens and early 20s that was what she did and so in the uk yeah bristol

And so she would come back and she would tell stories of the sort of people that she would be supervising. And of course it was a real mixed bag because you'd have the kind of the people on the sort of criminal fraternity, but you'd have the businessman who, you know, the white collar criminal, you know, or whatever it is, or the DUI. Particularly dumb one. I love that story you tell. Well, there was a, so there was a kid that was the, that I went to school with.

who would constantly come through her doors. And because he was Bristol's most useless criminal.

And I've always, it's always annoyed me that if you're going to go into crime, at least be good at it. You know what I mean? You're not, you don't have to study. You know what I mean? You just, you're just thieving and you can't even do that well. And like one time he got, he ended up and she said, why are you here? He said, well, I got caught stealing someone's TV and then the homeowners came back and they went, Mark, what are you doing? And I said, I'm not Mark. And they went, yes, you are. You live next door.

And he was stealing from his own neighbors. Yeah. Like at least go two streets over. Yeah. And anyway, I just thought it was him and there was other people that she talked about. And I just thought what an interesting way to,

As we were talking about with The Office or with Cheers, how do you find groups of people that wouldn't interact otherwise and throw them together and watch those sparks fly? And the community service world was perfect for that because these people would never have met otherwise. And it felt like an excuse to sort of explore people from very different backgrounds and then make them rub up against each other and see how they fire. And we'll leave Cheers alone, but it's that. When you have a set, a location that allows people

people from everywhere to come in. Yeah. You can write stories forever. That's right. You know, and you, you did that. Tell me about the casting because everybody is so, so good in it. Well, I mean, obviously the, the kind of headline cast member was Christopher Walken, um, who, uh,

Yeah, you heard me, Christopher Walken, who we wanted the idea of this kind of older American kind of con man thief who had sort of come to England probably in the early 70s to avoid the draft or the Vietnam War. And it sort of hooked up with some local girl and had never really left England.

And was sort of bumming around and, and, you know, he was just sort of such a perfect fit for that, that way that he can do kind of charm, but also be sort of sinister, but be funny. You know, he's just, and, and the most unique, extraordinary performance, a phenomenal man, a strong eccentric performer, but just perfect. And, and to take him to my hometown of Bristol, where we shot the show.

And for him to be there was so extraordinary, but also unfortunately, um, it was during COVID we ended up shooting during COVID. So I couldn't even, yeah. Oh yeah. So we couldn't even, uh, I couldn't even show him around the city. He sort of had to go from set to the, to the hotel and back again. And it was a very sad time because social is, you know,

actors you get to play well that's so much of when you you know the actors particularly when it's sort of again the idea of the surrogate family people getting to know each other the fact you can't really do that yeah offset because you couldn't hang out and stuff it was it was tough but anyway oh i would never have ever ever thought that oh well that's great that's great and and i i read that you went to stonehenge at one point christopher walken and i went to stonehenge

Um, and you know, he's a, he's a, he's a sort of enigmatic man, Chris, and he doesn't, he's not, he's sort of a man of few words. And we were kind of wandering around Stonehenge and there was a tour guide showing us round and, um, he hadn't really spoken. He was just taking it in, taking in the vibe. It was kind of sunset. It was a, I mean, it's a very kind of spiritual place for many people. At one point he just, the only thing he said was he said, um, apparently the blue stones have healing properties. Yeah.

I was like, wow, Chris really knows what he's talking about. And he said to the British tour guide, can I touch it? And she went, no, such a British thing. No, like this is Christopher Walken. He's come to Stonehenge for the first time in his life. Can he touch it? No, we don't let anyone touch them. Like what? What do you take them in at night? I mean, people are going to touch the stones, but yeah, it's those things where,

As someone who was a fan of film and TV and comedy and movies and all that growing up, the idea that one day I would be at Stonehenge with Chris Walker just seems so, so wild to me. Yeah. Even now. That kind of person, his talent and who he is and how much I admire him, but also his demeanor. Yeah. Because I'm, I'm the guy who vomits my life out on anybody and everybody, you know, and I'm, Hey.

Yeah. And I, I, I'm sure that would be met with silence and I'd be totally dumbfounded at what to do next. Yeah. And that's the thing. It'll just very occasionally he'll, he'll offer something up and you're like, wow, you know, just a fascinating little tidbit. And other times he'll just be quiet, but he's a real, what I was excited by was he was still passionate about acting. You know, even in his later years, he just still cared about

And he was, and he was invested and he was considered and thoughtful and he had take some things. It was just, I just, that was so exciting to me that someone of his status still gave a shit.

Hershey's milk chocolate with whole almonds makes for a wholly amazing, wholly delicious experience that's, well, wholly Hershey's. Everyone should get to experience the satisfying surprise of a whole almond tucked inside creamy Hershey's chocolate.

and if you have already tasted Hershey's milk chocolate with whole almonds, then chances are you're already a lifelong fan of this confectionery delight. Because let's face it, everything's better when you put your whole self into it. Why should an almond chocolate bar be any different? This is a chocolate bar that gives 100%

And that's something to celebrate nowadays. Late at night, I wake up, but I want a little something to go, you know, a little taste treat before I go back to bed. Quarter of that little chocolate-covered almond. Scrumptious. Shop for Hershey's Milk Chocolate with whole almonds now at a store near you. Found wherever candy is sold. Wasn't that delicious? So good. Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. I got it.

Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Oh, don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash back on purchases. Okay, rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. No! The Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. Visit wellsfargo.com slash activecash. Terms apply.

So, you just started using LinkedIn Premium. Now what? Well, on your Premium Company page, you noticed around seven and a half times more page engagement and five times more page views. Well done. And now, new clients are messaging you. All because you're using LinkedIn Premium, which helps you get the business growth you want. Think big, small business. Think big. Start your free trial at linkedin.com slash premium small business. That's linkedin.com slash premium small business.

Tell me about directing while being in it. Do you have somebody watch through the camera or watch the scene for you and go, maybe you could try such and such? I always... I was directing, so I always...

directed uh all of the british version of the office alongside ricky and then when we started doing stuff where i was also a performer we carried on directing and so i got used to that idea of sort of being in both both in front of and behind the camera what i found tough with the outlaws was firstly i was trying to make it a little bit more cinematic it was a bit more ambitious but also being one of an ensemble there's seven or eight main characters um

When you're as tall as I am, six foot seven, you inevitably have to put yourself at the back of the group. Right. You can't really block other smaller actors. Yeah. So I could never see what anyone was doing in the group scenes because they were up front talking and I'd be at the back. Right.

And I just never had time to go and check the take. And so it just, there was a great deal of faith you put in the actors to just deliver the goods. I know some sound people, you know, who go, and I can tell if it's good just by listening through my headphones in my little dark closet. I bet you there's some of that. Yes. I think there's that. And I think also, particularly if you're in a scene with someone, you just, it just feels right. If it's working, you know what I mean? You, you know, yourself as a performer, you just, you can just sense when the scene happens.

is firing and also when something's not working and trying to find ways to, to, to remedy it. But ultimately it just, I ended up letting other directors do stuff cause it was just too ambitious to try and do everything. Um, cause it was a big show and there was a lot of, a lot of, we can't literally can't wait. We're going to start watching again tonight. Oh, great. Thank you so much. Lovely. Is it new to the United States or has it been here for a while? It's all, it's all, there's three seasons and they're all on Amazon. So you can watch all on Amazon. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. Well, are people watching it? Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Okay. So I'm just late to the party. It's not a newsflash. Um, can we back up? Um, so I don't know, six, seven year old you, what were you doing? Were you aiming towards this kind of creative career or what were you doing? I, uh,

don't know if i at six or seven knew about this but certainly by my early teens i was very single-minded about being in comedy and in film and tv i was a i was a fan just as a viewer my dad and i would watch a lot of um particularly older american movies bob hope and the march brothers and um and then i sort of discovered woody allen and and then great american sitcoms mash and in

in other shows that were very important to me and and alongside that uh john cleese from monty python had hero grew up in the west country of britain of england as did i and he was very tall like i am and i think a part of me at a young age was like well if you need tall funny guys from the west country sure i'll throw my hat in the ring like i just was if that's what you need

And so there was a part of me that was just like at 12 or 13 going, I guess I'll be John Cleese. Yeah. And, and sort of people would look at me like, no, that's not an ambition. You need to, do you want to work in a bank or something? Like you can't be John Cleese. That's not what people do. But for some reason, and I don't know where this came from. It was not from a performing family. I just had this single mindedness like, eh, no, I'll do it. I'll give it a go.

And I'm not to compare myself with John Cleese, but in terms of getting into the profession and becoming a writer and a performer, that worked out. And so even now, I look back now, I just, where did that arrogance come from? How dare you think that you could do this for a living? And I don't know where that comes from because I'm not,

A man who's sort of arrogant, I don't think, or crazy confident in all aspects of my life. But for some reason, I just was very single-minded about that and sort of manifested it into happening. You do exude a lot of self-confidence. That doesn't mean arrogant.

Right. I think maybe that's it. I always worry that, you know, that they, that they can blur into each other. Yeah. Yeah. But your mom, your dad, was that the same? My dad's a very funny man and, but, but was not in the profession, but was always very funny and shared my love of comedy.

comedy and stuff and i think my mother was a lot more kind of oh you're gonna go into comedy well you know you have something to fall back on get an education you know all those sensible things which i did um but i luckily with the british version of the office it happened when i was still quite young in my early 20s and so i was sort of off to the races and so that confidence or that

but self-belief was sort of born out quite quickly. I was like, okay. But what was weird was I remember going to the BBC to pitch the British version of The Office and I said, being known by nobody. Nobody knew who we were. We were complete strangers and we went, this guy Ricky's going to be in it. We're going to write it. We're going to direct it. And they said to me, why would we let you do all those things? And I remember saying, we might be the next Orson Welles. But I didn't mean,

mean it arrogantly. I meant it in that way that nobody knew that he was going to be Orson Welles, right? He just was. And I, but in my mind, it was like, take a chance. We don't know, but it sounds like the most arrogant thing in the world. And Ricky was in the same position. He was a little older than me. So he was a little more, he had,

I think that he was in his thirties. So I just think he was, he performing. No, no, this is what I mean. He hadn't, none of us had any experience. We just were people off the street. I mean, it was mad. Yeah. And, um, they, the show. So they just left us alone. Cause it was super low budget. It was just in one room, essentially no star actors. No one came to visit. No one came to check on us. It went out. No one watched it.

They did a test audience screening and it got the lowest test audience score except for women's lawn bowls, which is like where they sort of roll little balls along a lawn. Didn't even know that was on TV. But women's? Specifically women's. Men's lawn bowls is crazy popular. But apparently women's lawn bowls, very low scoring. Office was second.

And no one watched it. And we're like, oh, well, we tried. And then it just started to pick up some steam, you know, and they started to win some awards. And then it got rerun and people started to watch it. Did the press love you? The press were on top of it and they loved it. And then it just started to gather steam. It's very similar to Cheers. Was it? Right. Oh, we were dead last one week that first year.

Yeah. I mean, 70, Jimmy likes to say we were 75th out of 70 shows. It was just dead last. But isn't it interesting how many shows have that reputation and the people stuck with them and they became phenomenon Seinfeld, obviously being another example. And I just don't know nowadays whether things get that breathing space, right. Or that runway, you know, um,

But yeah, it's, it's interesting. I think like you said, which is with it, just the audience starts to engage with it. They start, they, once they tune in to the world and they start to find the characters affection for them, even the, the, you know, the, uh, mean characters, they, then they're in. And once you get them in there in, and it's like, they, it's like a soap opera. They just want to spend time in that universe. And it's kind of unique to sitcom, I think.

Um, you know, uh, you watch things like the Sopranos and that, and yes, you're intrigued, but there's a, there's an edginess to the viewing. Whereas with comedy, there's a sort of, there's just a, there's something, I don't know, enveloping warm, inviting about being in the other end and you can go to bed feeling a little better about life. Absolutely. Did you ever get to meet John Cleese? I've never met him. No, I've never met him. Um,

But my shame on him. Well, so my parents were on a cruise once and they found out that Cleese was on the same cruise. He was going to give a talk and sign copies of a book that he'd written free cruise, John, a free cruise for John. And, um, my parents were like, this is so exciting. We're going to get a book signed for Steven, but being my parents, they got the wrong day.

And they showed up and the talk had already happened. They'd missed it. And so through the kind of, you know, through the ship's people, they said, could we try and get this book signed? Anyway, I came back to visit them one time and they were showing me this kind of shaky book.

camcorder footage of them in their in their room on the ship and you can see my mother going i don't know how it works ron it's a camera running and anyway they press play on the kind of um the kind of answering machine in the cabin and it's john cleese and he's saying hey uh someone asked me to sign this book for you of course i'm happy to do it can i just ask is it the same stephen merchant who did the office because um i'm a big fan of the show and i want to send my regards and it's like i'm done i don't need to meet him you know i yeah

you know we came full circle he was on cheers and it was like yeah because we all grew up we all grew up with monty python it was i was over by the time you came along but for us it was like the holy grail it literally was a comedy yeah it was yeah we've never seen that's one of the great one of the great episodes i think yes yes yeah yeah and he was so smart and giving too because there was this

And the writers, everybody, he's visiting royalty. We all felt the same. And I think the writers were trying to make sure he had something wonderful. And it was the last scene. And just the scene wasn't working. And John finally said, I think you need to stop worrying about me. I'm very happy. And just write what the scene needs. And it just... Yeah, that's great. They ended up writing this terrific scene. But he is...

So generous. And so then I had a root canal or something like the weekend after we shot and he came to visit me at the house unsolicited just to see how are you feeling? So anyway. Oh, that's lovely. That's nice. We have a good hero in common. Absolutely. Yeah. Who were your other kind of comedy heroes when you. Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Cause again, he has that very relaxed, almost effortless style. Yeah. And physical comedy. I mean, both John Cleese and Dick Van Dyke are just incredible with their. Well, that's something I've tried to incorporate where I can. No, you're magnificent. Physical stuff. Seriously love watching you act. Thank you. Thank you. I think it's also when you're very tall, like I am. Someone said to me once in an interview, do you, do you think you went into comedy to control when people laugh at you?

And I thought that's a hell of an opening question. But it has stuck with me because I,

I think there's probably some truth to that. When you're six foot seven, people naturally look at you anyway. And, and so there's something about, if you're going to stare at me, let it be on my terms. I agree. I didn't have that, but I was at age 13, six foot and 120 pounds. I was scary, scary. And I went to a prep school and they had their share of bullies and,

but the bullies did not know what to do with me. It was like if I hit him, he could shatter and I'd spend the rest of my life in jail. So they just would leave me alone. And then I also figured early on, I don't know, I'm not like saying this is the way to go in life. I think being confrontive is a good thing sometimes. But I would find the biggest bully on the playground and make him laugh. Yeah, right. And then

he was mine. I'm he, he became human to me. Yeah. And I was the kid who made him laugh. Yeah. Yeah. I think I, I never remember being bullied, but I think I got in there preemptively by trying to be funny. Yeah. And so therefore I, like you say, I was kind of insulated from the bullying, but at the same time, I think I used humor at school as a bit of a

barrier and therefore I think I don't, I never felt like I was part of any gang really. You know, I was always slightly on the periphery kind of observing and, you know, got on fine and was not, and it was not a, it was not an unpleasant experience school, but just never quite, you know, because I was using humor to just keep people at arm's length for fear of that bullying attack. I wasn't ever really quite part of any, of any circle. What was, do you remember when it went from one person to

Once a week, oh, I saw you in such and such, to when it became...

a torrent of people recognizing you. What, how, how was fame has fame sit on you? Well, I think it was a slow burn, you know, the, um, the old analogy of the frog in the pan of water and you slowly turn up the heat and it doesn't realize it's being boiled alive. And I think because I started as a writer and then I would start popping up here and there on talk shows or, um, and then started to perform and, and was on screen and it just, so it was a much more slow burn experience for me. Um,

And I think there was probably an occasion where, uh,

I remember like, you know, there'd be like a kind of gossip column and they'd, they'd, they'd have seen me, you know, like I remember they said they'd seen me in a blockbuster video arguing with my girlfriend, presumably squabbling over what movie we were going to, although I don't remember ever arguing in the blockbuster anyway, but I remember then you get slightly, uh, kind of complacent. Like, I don't know if I've, you might've heard me tell this story before, but, um, much like in time square, it,

at New Year in sort of central London in Trafalgar Square at New Year. There's a big congregation of people for the big countdown and the whole thing. And I was there and, you know, and I'm six foot seven, so I'm taller than most of the people in the crowd. So I'm like checking out the scene and I was young and I was single and I'm like looking for, you know, so maybe a New Year paramour. And this girl comes up to the crowd and she walks up to me and she says, hey, are you going to be here for a while? And I thought, here we go.

She's probably seen me on TV. Yeah, wants a little piece of Steve, of course. And she went, she said, I said, yeah, I'm going to be here for a while. She said, great, because my friends and I have arranged to meet back at you.

I went, sorry. She said, yeah, yeah, yeah. We just, we need like a meeting point. We're all going to get, we're going off to a party. So we just thought we'd use you if that's all right. Cause we can see you wherever you go. I was like, uh, he said, yeah, move around. Don't worry. We can see you. I was like, okay. So I would move around. Then finally I just started fight people, like just started gathering and I would move and they would move with me.

I'm like, oh, and then eventually she showed up. She's like, thanks so much. And I'm thinking, well, she'll invite me to the party. They went off to the party. I didn't get invited. I went home alone. I'm like, yeah, I was getting a little too big for my boots there on the old celebrity front.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a, it's a strange experience, you know, very celebrity again. No, I think because I was tall, people always looked at me. I was about to say, it was hard to tell the difference. I always got stared at, you know, and even now, if people don't know who I am, I'll still get people's comment, you know, cause I think people think being very tall is like an accomplishment. It's not an insult. Yeah.

You know, so I get a lot of, do you play basketball? And I'll order a drink in a bar and someone will be like, that's a tall order. And everyone will laugh and high five. And I'm like, is that allowed? But yeah, so I think that I've always, yeah, I've always had people gawping. Yeah.

Next level pet people will do anything for their dogs. That means treating them with next level protection from parasites with Next Guard Plus, a Foxel Honor Moxidectin and parental chewable tablets. Next Guard Plus chews provide one and done monthly protection against fleas, ticks, heartworm disease, roundworms and hookworms, all in a tasty beef flavored chew. Used with caution in dogs with a history of seizures or neurologic disorders. Dogs should be tested for existing heartworm infection prior to starting a preventive.

Ask your vet about NexGuard Plus Choose. Get Memorial Day savings now at The Home Depot with free delivery and up to 40% off, plus up to an extra $450 off select appliances like Whirlpool. Store dinners and keep your coolers iced for sports practice with the large storage and ice capacity of a Whirlpool refrigerator from The Home Depot.

Your parents, how are they with your fame? Do you have siblings? I have one sister, Alex, who's involved sort of behind the scenes in TV and film. So she's worked on a number of the projects, including The Outlaws. But my dad, I think, is quite enamored with...

of my celebrity partly because we put him in the british version of the office right so very occasionally he'll get recognized yeah which is a huge thrill for him he didn't have any speaking lines but he was a sort of janitor who will occasionally appear like holding some toilet rolls and just stare at the camera transfixed and occasionally people will recognize him but if i'm walking with him like i'll go for a little walk with him in when i go visit and we'll like walk past his local butcher shop

and he'll just suddenly grab me and throw me in the door and be like look who it is and they'll be like hey and I'm sort of like a piece of meat like a surprised cow to be admired by the butcher but um

But no, he's, yeah, but it's, I think there's a kind of, it's like a big picture of me on the wall when you walk into the, to the family. That's great. My, I grew up without a TV and my parents didn't want television and, and then Cheers came along and they, they were, oh, well, we guess we have to buy a TV. They put a kind of a religious tapestry over the front of it. So, you know, it was only when they,

took the, you know, open up the devil and turned it on. And they would just watch Cheers and then throw it back. Yeah, I mean, now, then they grew into news and other things like that. But I think what they loved about it is people reached out to them who they hadn't, friends who they hadn't spoken to or had lost track. So it was like a good thing to them because they got to hang around and meet other, their friends that they hadn't seen. Yeah. Do you remember though, it's interesting you said that about, because I remember when I was growing up,

But certain households, there was almost like a shame about having a TV. Like I remember, I don't know if you had this in the US, but they would have, they would have like video cassette cases.

for the VCR, but the cases would look like books and you would put the VCR and the VCR tape in the, and then he would put them on the shelf. So they looked like books. No, that's like, you know what I mean? Like the idea that people come around and go, Hey, can I borrow that book? No, no, no. You can't read that book. No, that's a family. That's a family book. You can't keep just the idea of like hiding your videotapes. No, that's one piece. That's the book. Exactly. Yeah.

But were they, so were they religious? Is that why? No, I think it was a combination of things. We lived out in the country. And so in Arizona, so it was early, this is in the fifties. So, uh, satellite was not in, you know, play. So they had to take, lay a cable.

uh to your house in essence and uh that was very expensive if you lived out in the country you would have to foot that bill so it became out of the question and then they just loved to read they were readers my father was a museum director geologist anthropologist and my mother was um i like to say she became spiritual but she was very religious

Um, but not, not like anti. Right. I'd rather you read and you go play. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, uh, of course now I'm the guy who will turn on a cooking show and watch it for 12 hours straight. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Yeah, I think that my dad, my dad was like a plumber and a builder and I think he would come home and be exhausted. And so TV was just a great kind of salve for him. And so we would watch it together. And like I say, we'd watch a lot of old black and white movies and things. And so it was always a kind of bonding thing. And particularly comedy, watching comedy was a big bonding thing for he and I. So there was never any, in fact, I remember once we, I said, dad, maybe I should go and like play some sport or something.

And he's like, oh, okay. So he took me around to the park with a cricket bat and a ball. And I had the cricket bat and he had the ball and he bowled me the ball and I thwacked it. And he said, I'm not going to go and run for that. So we went home, watched TV. It was the last time I played sport with my father, really.

He was having none of it. And so I was never encouraged to go out and play. I was always encouraged to sit in and watch movies and TV. Are you nonstop work mode, basically? I mean, you love what you do. Yeah. But what do you do when you don't do this?

Or do you not have those? No, I don't do a lot of non-this. Because it was a hobby before it was a profession. My hobby is acting. I love it. I love going to a studio. I love this. The whole process of it. I used to draw comic strips and I used to write little sketches and things. I just...

It was fun to me. It was creatively stimulating. It was nutritious. And so, and people would often say, oh, you're a workaholic. And it's like, well, that sounds very pejorative. And it's like, but what am I supposed to do? Like go and play golf, even though I don't play golf. Like I, I, you know, I mean, so aside from playing a bit of online chess, I don't do a lot. Yeah. Are you good? No, no, but I'm enthusiastic.

Um, but what I like about online chess is, uh, you can play anonymously and you have like a little avatar image that you can choose for some reason. Mine is Prince on roller skates. But anyway, um, you'll often, you'll also get people will can write to you when you're playing a game and they don't know who you are and they'll just insult you, you know, be like, you suck, you know, whatever. And.

It's quite a few occasions now where they've had a little avatar of like Dwight Schrute from the office or one of the shows I've done. They don't know it's me. So they're like insulting me, but they're also a fan at the same time, which I, I find quite delicious. Thank you. Thank you again. Nice one. Have you written a book? Forgive my ignorance. I have not written a book besides publishing some scripts of shows we've done, but no, I've not. I'd quite like to write a book. You would? I would. Yeah, I would.

Have you? Like an autobiography? No. Oh, no. No, there are too many people still alive who go, why did you put that? You know. No. I think I'd quite like to do that at some point. But I've just started rebuilding. I started doing a stand-up act. I haven't done it for about

12 or 13 years. That's ballsy. Yeah. And I stand up as a whole different deal. Well, that was one of the things that when I started, I started doing standup and then I got sidetracked with TV and kind of didn't go back to it for a long time and eventually did. And then again, put it on a hold. Cause it's like you say, it's, it's, it's ballsy. It's also tiring. It's hard. You know, you have to go out of the house and try out the material in bars and clubs. It's very antisocial. And, um, and, but anyway, but I, I've been enjoying it and I've, and I've been touring or,

At the moment, I'm just building an act very slowly and eventually I will tour it. But I suppose it's a form of autobiography, right? Because you're doing it in LA. Have you been doing it? I've been mainly doing it in the UK, but I will, while I'm here, I'll do some, I'll try some little spots here and there. What is it like taking, building an act in either LA or in England? Yeah. Does it translate?

Well, the problem is some of the reference points. It's very hard when you're in a particular city or culture, you inevitably draw on some of those reference points. And so that's the thing which is harder to translate. But I think that kind of hopefully the DNA of it will still translate across. So I will ultimately, I will try and make sure it can work on both sides of the Atlantic. But at the moment, it's just sort of, it's just, yeah, it's just throwing a lot of,

shit at the wall to see what what sticks and do people know that you're doing that by the way i always hear that people show up to the laugh factory or whatever here in la to try out material that's what i try and do yeah just show our people is that kind of an unspoken thing with your audience they know that this is you trying out stuff you i think you declare look

I'm trying this stuff out. It's new and you'll have maybe a notebook. But I think what's exciting is not being announced so that there are people in the audience who don't know who you are. So they have no built-in affection for you. Oh, he's funny, so I will laugh because he's known to be funny. Exactly. So therefore, it's sort of like a stronger test of the material in some way because they're not your audience and they're just judging you on if you're funny or not. So I find that quite effective, but it's also very...

It's a slow process. Do you have a go-to for bombs, if a joke bombs? I always love that. Cheers. All week, some joke was just killing us. We thought it was hysterical. The writers thought it was hysterical. We couldn't wait to perform it. And on show night, it would bomb. It's crickets. And you could not help, but we would all burst into hysterics because it was so

physically funny to your body. Yeah. Right. Right. You know, thought there was a step there and you just fell two stories. I think the difference with standup is that there's no one to share the, the pain, you know? So it's just you on the stage and there's, you've left this gap for a laugh and it didn't come. And there's sort of no hiding place. And that's, I remember when I first started out before I was known at all, I, um,

I sort of, my early act was a bit postmodern and it was, the idea was me, I was sort of playing a character of this arrogant standup that no one had ever heard of that thought he deserved more credit and applause than he was getting. And that was sort of, so I would come out and I would be like annoyed that they weren't giving me enough applause. And I would like, I would read reviews and,

my reviews but i'd written them in such a way that they were clearly negative but they could be interpreted as positive you know what i mean and um and if the audience got the joke they went for it they loved it because they could sort of they could laugh along at my arrogance my fake arrogance but if they didn't get it and they just thought i was an arrogant comedian i was done for i when i had because i had no act because the whole act was like pretending there was going to be an act if you started showing me some respect and one time i was performing it and it just nothing

i mean brutal and someone shouted taxi for the comedian you know the sort of classic kind of slam and i had nowhere to go and i remember coming off and and the only person who liked it was the waitress who had who had done it seen a lot of comedy and she could see what i was doing and and i remember leaving and i called my agent i was like you've got to get me out of all future gigs i'm done this is it's over this is before you were steven before i was known yeah yeah and um

And he said, well, it can't because you're contracted to go to this next gig. And I showed up at this next gig. I'm like this, it's all over, but they went for it. I was back on the horse. But I remember at that moment thinking, looking back on it, it's like, oh, I bombed so terribly and I didn't die. And I did get through it. And they were, and I, and I sort of carried on. And so once you've experienced that,

sheer terror you're sort of slightly insulated you don't you definitely don't invite it and you don't want it but you're sort of prepared for the right the physical experience of it yeah i i cannot identify at all it's just too ballsy for me and i've always loved the ensemble-ness of of acting but that is just terrifying to me yeah it's a strange perversion not everyone who does stand up

when you put them into a scripted show is generous. It's like, I got the ball, let me run, get out of my way. Because they're used to controlling the situation completely on their own. And it's a rare stand, not rare maybe anymore, but rare stand up that

passes the ball back and forth, you know, as it were with, with the other actors. And I always admire it when people do and can, and you, you certainly do. Well, I appreciate that, but I think it's because I think in my DNA, I probably am a writer first and a performer second. And as a writer, you're always looking at the bigger picture. Right. And as a director, you want the whole ensemble to gel to work. You understand that this sort of give and take happens.

that sometimes the emphasis needs to be on other characters. And so I think, and I think the more I've done it, the more I've become experienced as an actor, the more I've, it's both fed back into the writing. It's also given me a lot of faith that actors will help me solve problems, script problems, if scenes not working. And I always think,

The thing I've realized is that as an actor, I think you're seeing the script from the inside out somehow. And as a, and as a writer, a doctor, you're on the outside looking in. And I think sometimes if something's not right, I'm like, I can't figure out why as a writer, this is not working. I'll ask the actor and they'll be able to some, there's something that's not right for their character in that scene. Right.

And so I do try to think of them as almost different disciplines. You do the writing, then you move to the acting and thinking of them as very separate things. And as time's gone on, I've started to do some drama acting as well.

Um, and that's become a whole other sort of skillset, you know, as you start to get into Jojo rabbit, you were absolutely brilliant. That was an amazing film. Thank you. That was a, that was a, that was a very good film. Yeah. But I did a thing in the UK for lives where I played a real life serial killer.

And that was fascinating because you don't know, how do you get into the mind of a serial killer? And that became almost like a writer, a writerly exercise, like almost writing in your head. What are they thinking? When they're in court, do they know they're lying? Have they convinced themselves they didn't commit these crimes? And that itself becomes a really interesting thing to explore. I did play it a part early on, beautifully written. It was about somebody who incested.

their child who they loved. And I did a lot of research and talked to people who treated those kind of people. And you could understand, you could sit there in your process, go, oh, I see, I see, until the act. And then there's a line that that person crossed, which is

unknowable yeah yeah yeah and and taboos in society this sounds like and this is actor talk so wow i hope this comes across all right but taboos are set up in society because it's not unheard of right right what this crime or this thick this act it's not unheard of so you make it a taboo so

Anyway, I don't know how you felt. I mean, was the person was killing lots of people? He killed at least four men that we're aware of, maybe more. And not in acts of passion, acts of insanity. No, there was a premeditated aspect to it. So how did you, you know, you can get close to that, I would assume, as an actor, writer, preparing, thinking. Right. But then there's that line. There's that line where it's baffling and you just can't.

You can't understand it. And there's a little bit of footage of him being interviewed by the police. It's quite a recent crime, so he's in prison now in the UK. But the little bit of footage I saw, there was something almost childlike about him. And that was something I used almost just as a way in of kind of like imagining a child who sort of doesn't quite fully understand crime.

Their actions or the blurring between right and wrong, you know, maybe that was just a way of trying to compute it. Which you'd, you'll have to say a sociopath or psychopath. Yeah. That there is that lack of understanding. Right. That lack, if you don't have compassion or empathy or, and you can't teach it. Yeah. I mean, you could probably give it a, you know, a good shot, but you can't teach it. And so. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm always very admiring of actors that really go into that territory. Because again, it's not until I started to explore that as an actor that I started to really understand those that do it incredibly well, sort of how challenging it is, you know? I'm not sure I'm that guy.

or want to be i mean right i mean you never know whether you don't have the chops to do it or whether you just don't have the emotional desire to do it i remember when i was playing this thing uh it was called something about amelia playing that character i knew that my job was to be as truthful in every moment as possible so that people couldn't dismiss me oh

Yes. Oh, well, that's not me. Once you lose them and they start, they go, oh, well, Stephen kind of blew that moment up or Stephen lost me there. Then you're doing a disservice to the peace because really what you're trying to say is there but for the grace of God, go I. Not that, oh, that's something...

foreign and that's right inhuman no it is human yeah well it's horrible and that's what's all the more chilling yeah exactly but i think also it's that fear of you know because people know you for comedy making sure you don't sort of unbalance the piece because it's inadvertently perceived as comic even if you yourself are not trying to be comic

And that was my fear, but from certainly the reports I got back, it wasn't seen that way. But it's interesting because to me, comedy was always very instinctive and very easy. And I sort of understood how to do it as a performer. I understood timing. It was never intimidating to me. Whereas this was very different because it felt like this was new territory. I didn't have any...

kind of guard rails to help me. And that was both challenging, but exciting. I don't see it as a stretch for you. I mean, I'm sure it was, but your comedy, I'll give you the compliment back. Your comedy is believable. You're taking people and maybe tilting one little quarter inch past what would be perhaps drama or sad and

making it funny, but you never lose people into, oh, well, this is so broad, you know, that it's, it's not, you're not laughing at something that I would ever be. You always make sure that you're human and relatable to, and you can't be dismissed. I hope so. Cause I think it goes back to what we said at the very beginning, which is that, you know, certainly the comedy I've always loved both sides of the Atlantic. There is, there is sort of a, a

not necessarily a tragedy, but there is a, there's a realism. There's a sadness or a desperation or a, or a, just a humanity at the core of it. And yes, you're dialing things up for laughs, but, but,

but what's relatable, what you're tuning into is something very human. And so, you know, like even in something like Outlaws where I'll have a scene that's played for laughs and the next moment it will be very dark or dramatic because to me that is what life is. You know, it can shade between those two areas in an instant, right? Something can be hysterical and then you get a phone call and it's the saddest thing you've ever heard. So that is to me what life is. And I always think

Sometimes, you know, people will get criticizing because they'll be like, oh, well, you know, it's totally all over the place. And it's like, well, kind of like life because life is, it's only very wild. Yeah. Yeah. And it can change on a dime. Where do you have sadness in you? This me being Barbara Walters. But what do you do? I mean, you write, you have a familiarity within your work.

Yeah, I don't, I, I often kind of flippantly say that I, I kind of am annoyed. I don't have more sadness just from a creative point of fuel, a creative fuel, you know, more, um,

depression or darkness in my past or whatever. I just, that I, I just, but it's not really there. And of course, ultimately I'm thankful for that, but you know, I, I sort of, I read about these very tortured comedians or artists or writers who have just got so much pain to draw on. And I'm like, I'd love a piece of that. I'd love a little bit of that, you know, but what I, my dad wouldn't play cricket with me. Like that's not enough. That's not enough fuel. Yeah.

He's used it for like 30 years. It's really a big, big day for him. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, but I am just interested in people, I guess. And I think, I think increasingly one of the things I love about like the podcast world is just, just how you get to hear those long form conversations with people that really help you dial into what makes people tick.

That's literally why I want to do this. Yeah. It is a privilege. And it's something that I'm not. I do the self-deprecating, who am I to way too much. Right. But for whatever reason, I do it. And it keeps me in a party or picking up the phone and going...

you're fascinating. Can we just hang out for a minute or have a beer or talk or, yeah, I don't do it, but now there are these guard, they're not guardrails, but this is what we're supposed to do. There's, we have a microphone in front of us and we get to spend an hour talking and I would never do this with you. Right. Yeah. I would definitely never do this with you, Ted. Hey, well, if you call me, I would never answer. I'd be like, Jesus, this guy again. But you know, I, I love my relationships. Yeah.

I never want to go have a hangout and have a beer. I'm not that guy. I'm really not. I want to go hang out with my wife. Yeah. But not go have a beer, even though I like you and it'd be nice and it'll be nice and relaxing because we're guys. Ho, ho, ho. Yeah. But it's, I wouldn't do it, but working. Yes. Having a project together. Yes, yes, yes. Is my favorite thing to do. Yeah. Well, I'm very good sort of in isolation. Like I'm very quite happy on my own, um,

You know, I like, I like having, I say I like having conversations. I, I'm not completely loathing the idea of a beer, um, with you or anyone else, but I could also spend two weeks, you know, at home, never seeing anybody. And I would, and I would be quite fine. Yeah. And even if my partner, say was not around, like, you know, I love spending time with her, but I, again, I'm quite good sort of on my own. Just. Is she good on her own? Uh, I think she would prefer, uh,

That I was in the house and that we were hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and she's just, I think naturally more adept at sort of social interaction. I think I always have had to work at it slightly more and sort of try. Yeah. I, um, it took me a long time, I think, to, to think that,

It wasn't through sort of, this sounds like I'm being really kind of down on myself, but I just used to think, I don't know, people would be fine if I wasn't around. And I don't mean that in a really bleak way. I just feel like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm all right. You know, if I'm at the party, yeah. But if I wasn't there, you're all going to be fine. And as I got older, I'm like, oh, that's true of everybody. Like we can all cope without people.

other people you know well there'll be a substitute and there'll be someone else but so but it sounds like i'm like oh this guy hates himself but it was just no i thought i was getting close to something sad but shoot shoot i guess not darn it i love going to like award shows and worried about uh and being self-conscious and worried what people might or and then realize there's this blinding flash of

No one is paying attention to anyone else in that room. They're all going through this self-doubt. Same thing. I was nominated nine times before I won an Emmy. And I think I've won two out of 18 or 19 nominations. But people...

in those rooms will go, oh, well, you've won so many times. No one has any idea about it. You're just in your own little world of self-consciousness. What did you win for, ultimately? Thanks a lot.

Did you win for cheers? Hold on. Hold on. Yes. Two, two, two cheers. But I think, Kenji, I think that comes down to the fact you made it look easy. I think people, it's not showy. It's not a showy performance. And I think people underrate that. Could be. You know, I think some, often the people that win awards are, they're doing, they're doing a lot of tricks. Yeah.

Yeah. And even when we as let's go with that, I like, or maybe you were just terrible in those first eight seasons or how come we don't have more Academy award winning either comedic performances or comedies.

Well, that is an interesting question. I do wonder that. To pull a comedy off as a filmmaker, as a writer, let alone as an actor, is hard. That's really hard. It's very, very hard to do anything well and to do something well where you also need to have laughs every time.

10 seconds, that's really tough. Really hard. And I don't, like you say, I've never quite understood why it's not more valued. Uh, like you say it, they say. As an actor, comedy is like an athletic sport. You need to be in training. You need to be in good shape. You need to have all your brain cells firing drama. You can show up divorced, depressed, and drunk. And the camera goes, Oh wow. There's so much bad. Yeah.

Yeah, but I think it's that you were saying about being at the award show. I think one of the great reliefs as you get older is realizing no one has it figured out. Everyone's guessing something.

everyone's insecure. Everyone's, what did that guy think of me? Did I say something dumb at the dinner party? And that's it. And when you realize that a great weight is lifted, I think when you're certainly when, when I was younger, I just was like, I just felt like other people had figured it out. And what was I missing? No, no one knows. And even as you get older, you realize that, but you don't have anything figured out more.

You know, you still feel like that. What the hell did I say that for? You just don't care as much. I have this prayer. It's like when I go into a situation like that, I say, please, Ted, do not tilt too far forward. Just relax. Let people come to you. You don't have to, you know. And it never works. The last thing I went to was Screen Actors Guild.

and we were kind of late because we were late to the crowd. So they were just starting as we walked through the crowd to get to our table. It was all round tables. And this sweet lady was leading us and Mary was behind her and

I was behind Mary and I took my eyes off this little line of, you know, the sweet lady and Mary and they went left to get to our table and I went right thinking that it was this table I was approaching. And man, I was glad handing all these...

And I was just going, hey, Howie, good to see you again. Last time, and I went around the table and somebody finally grabbed me gently by the shoulder. Your table's over here, Mr. Danson. And everyone's looking at you like such a prat. Yeah. The saving grace is I find my stupidity

Right. Right. Kind of delights me. Yes. That I'm such an idiot. Well, I think when, particularly when something happens, even in the moment that I'm humiliating myself, like the story with the, the Trafalgar square at new year. Yeah. Even at the moment it happened, I'm like, this is gold dust. Yes. Like I can't believe my luck. Cause you're in a profession that allows you to turn that into something, whether it's standup or talk show or whatever. And there's such a relief to that. Yeah.

Being able to, and I think I'm all the thing that I always judge people on is, can they laugh at themselves?

When I meet people that can't, that are never the center of the joke, that never the butt of the joke. That's sad. That have to sort of win in every conversation, in every anecdote. I know they're never going to be my people. I just can't tune into that. And they're exhausting to be around. Yeah. I like the people that are willing to share the time that they fell on their face. I'm interested in alpha males, but ultimately they're boring. Yes.

Yes. You know? Yeah. They soak up too much oxygen. They're just soaking up all the air in the room, aren't they? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I find that, you know, you, sometimes I, you realize what someone's like and you're like, okay, I just, I'll just let them, let them talk and then go find someone else. Yeah. I'm not going to compete with this. Um, this, the one upmanship thing. I've not, I've never got into that. It's just, Hey, let the work do the talking. Yeah. I'm so grateful. You came in and talked with me.

I so admire you, your work as an actor. I love watching you act, but I cannot wait to go home and see the rest of Outlaws. That's incredible. I just love it. Well, it's a huge thrill for you to have invited me. I'm such a fan of you, as you know. And so, yeah, I'm sending all that praise back at you. And thank you so much for having me.

That was Stephen Merchant. Really, he's kind of John Cleese-like to me. And check out Outlaws. I think it's on Prime Video and it's really brilliant. That's it for our show this week. Special thanks to our friends at Team Coco. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to someone you love.

Be sure and check us out on YouTube where you can watch full-length episodes. As always, subscribe on your favorite podcast app and give us a great rating and review if you're in the mood on Apple Podcasts. Thank you. We'll have more for you next week where everybody knows your name. You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, Sometimes.

♪♪♪