Denmark’s anger as Trump reignites Greenland furore
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Welcome to The World in 10. In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. Today with me, Stuart Willey and Alex Dibble. There are many policies that Donald Trump is posting about in the weeks before he returns to the White House. One that is raising questions is his stated desire to own or control Greenland.

It's a topic he's returned to again. It caused a diplomatic spat with Denmark during his last presidency. Now the incoming president says getting Greenland is an absolute necessity, prompting anger from some. Our guest today is Alex Maxia, who reports from across the region for The Times. Alex, now Donald Trump Jr. has touched down in Nook, the big city in Greenland. What's behind the Trump family interest in this place?

It is something that Donald Trump said last time he was president of the United States back in 2019. He was offering Denmark a deal to buy Greenland. And Greenland is an autonomous region within the Danish realm. They have their own parliament that is based in Nuuk and their own representatives. They also have some of the members of parliament in the Danish parliament in Copenhagen are representing Greenland.

So this proposal in 2019 was seen as sort of a joke. People did not take it seriously. And the Danish prime minister at the time, Mette Fredriksen, who is still prime minister today, said that it was absurd. And because of this, Donald Trump cancelled his visit, his state visit to Copenhagen.

which was sort of, people were quite surprised. Fast forward the clock, now it's 2024, in a few weeks' time, Donald Trump will be back in office, and he has been interested in Greenland again. Greenland is a very big island. It's in the Arctic. It's still quite a frozen island, but beneath the ice, beneath the melting ice, there is quite a lot of natural resources, rare minerals that are of great interest for the world economy.

So he has the idea that Greenland could potentially be part of the United States. I'm not sure what his idea is. Either way, from what I understand, from the Danish side and also especially from the Greenlandic side, they do not see themselves as being, they are not for sale. They are open for business. This is the message that

the Prime Minister of Greenland has said. And these words were also echoed by the Danish Prime Minister that this afternoon spoke about what's happening, said that the US is Denmark's closest ally. Both of them are founding members of NATO.

And they have an agreement of security with the US that also involves a US military base in Greenland since the 50s. So there is a strong partnership on many aspects. Another thing that Mette Fredriksen, the Danish Prime Minister, said today was that Greenland's future is in the hands of Greenland. So it's them who will be making the decisions, but that she does not wish for this agreement.

agreement that has been in place between Copenhagen and Nuk to disappear. She believes that in times of crisis, it's better to stick together. But how this should be done, it's up to the government in Nuk

Donald Trump's stated reason for wanting to control Greenland, he says it's an absolute necessity for his country's security. We've seen Denmark announce a bump in defence spending in recent days with more than a billion pounds extra to defend Greenland. How is Denmark's military looking at Donald Trump's comments?

So I spoke to retired Admiral from the Danish Armed Forces Torben Erting Jørgensen who has been also working in Greenland and has also was deployed working for NATO in the United States. He says that it is not Russia but rather Denmark's closest ally

to have become the greatest threat to the integrity of the Kingdom of Denmark. So quite strong statements from his side. And for the way that the agreement is built between Denmark and Greenland, it is up to the Greenlandic people to decide if they want to still be part of Denmark or not. Let's remember that on the whole island of Greenland, a very, very big island, it's a total of 56,000 inhabitants.

most of which live in the main city, Nuuk, that is in flight time closer to New York than it is to Copenhagen. But historically, it has been part of the Danish kingdom. It was a Danish colony up until the 50s, but then it gained this special status, as did the Faroe Islands,

So it is up very much to the Greenlandic people how they envisage their future. Of course, the collaboration with Denmark now is that on foreign policy and defence aspects, it is Copenhagen who is sort of in charge about many other aspects in terms of healthcare, education and other aspects are totally governed by NUC and by local authorities there.

We're talking a lot about Copenhagen and Washington here, but what do the Greenlandic people think? There's 56,000 of them. What are they making of all this? The aspect of being open for business has been underlined by several politicians who have spoken about this publicly. The Prime Minister of Greenland, but other politicians too. Being open for business and open for opportunities. And this has also been helped by the fact that Nuuk has a new international airport.

that allows direct flight connections, both to Copenhagen, long distance flight connections, both to Copenhagen, but also to Canada and the US. So for sure, there's going to be more tourism coming in and that is a good source of income. But obviously other business opportunities are also on the table. But the key message is that they do not want to be part of

of the US. They want to be their own reality according to the independentists. Some believe that they're interested in best lies staying as part of Denmark, but obviously it is an open negotiation on how this partnership should be and how it should develop. So it's a conversation that

both sides need to have. I don't think that that many people that are keen on becoming part of the United States or an overseas territory of the United States, it is unlikely that Greenland would ever become the 51st state of the United States. But either way, I think that the consensus is that they would like us to keep a lot of independence and the capacity of making their own decisions on their own territory. Often in these discussions, Alex, we touch on the rush for the Arctic.

The sense that a new great game is underway with Russia, the US and the Nordic countries all wanting to control the area in both a military sense and also in a natural resources sense. Is there any sort of belief that Mr. Trump's talk stems from that? It's something that...

The recent escalation of relations with Russia dates back to the beginning of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and that's 2022. Trump had his eye on Greenland from 2019 explicitly in a way that was surprising for many. So that is...

I'm not sure if this is part of that broader sphere. For sure, what we do know is that there is global warming and that temperatures are rising, the ice is melting, and there is a need for certain specific metals and uranium and other minerals that are

in abundance in regions that have been covered by ice for many years. And Greenland is no exception, same way as the north of Russia and Norway, Finland and Sweden has also got a lot of resources. But in the same way, they have in Sweden and north of Sweden, Norway and Finland, there have been discussions between national governments in the capitals and the local indigenous population who have

have been inhabiting those lands for many years and have visions of how they would like to see their lands and mines are not part of that greatly, not part of that vision. So that is also to be quite an important point there. There is definitely an interest from several countries in those minerals and

Looking closer, you find them in countries further afield, but closer to Europe or to, say, North America. Yes, of course, the Arctic is there. And that is therefore interesting. The soon-to-be president has been posting, make Greenland great again. I suppose, Alex, we all just have to wait and see how it plays out. Yeah, it will be... Well, this visit today, happening today, is a private visit. He's recording a podcast, just as we're doing now.

But what will happen next when his father will enter the White House and how his foreign policy will look like, that's to be seen. The Prime Minister of Denmark said that she's looking forward to collaborating with the US President as she has had a great relationship with the predecessor and

So on the diplomatic level, it's open for talks, but one message is clear, that Greenland is not on sale and that whatever future Greenland is going to have,

It's a decision that the Greenlandic people need to take. But obviously Denmark does not want to see this division between Nuuk and Copenhagen. Alex, thank you. Alex Maxia, who reports on the Arctic for The Times. That is it from us. Thank you for taking 10 minutes to stay on top of the world with the help of The Times. We'll see you tomorrow.