How lifting missile restrictions could shift Ukraine’s frozen frontline
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Welcome to The World in 10. In an increasingly uncertain world, this is The Times' daily podcast dedicated to global security. Today with me, Laura Cook and Stuart Willey. Ukraine has long complained it's hamstrung by range restrictions on the weapons it's supplied by Western allies. Restrictions that blocked them from being used deep into Russian territory.

Now Germany's Chancellor Friedrich Merz has announced that his country, as well as Britain, France and the US, have lifted those restrictions. His comments came after a weekend where Ukraine was hit by the biggest drone and missile strikes of the war, three nights of Russian attacks that killed at least 18 people.

Joining us to talk through this shift in how Ukraine can use Western missiles is The Times' defence editor, Larissa Brown. Larissa, were you surprised by this move? Well, it's a bit of a strange timing, really, because, you know, from our perspective, we thought last year that these restrictions had been largely lifted. We had...

Joe Biden, the US president at the time, under intense pressure from the British government and others to loosen their restrictions around the use of storm shadow and scout missiles inside Russia. Then we had this moment where we're told that Biden had lifted those restrictions, that Britain and France and America could now use those weapons inside Russia. It was a bit unclear at the time exactly where they could be used. So,

We knew that at least one Storm Shadow missile was used in the Kursk region and there was a suggestion that others had been used nearby too. But there was never confirmation that the long-range weapons could be used anywhere inside Russia. And I think that's what then we heard yesterday from the German Chancellor. He unexpectedly announced that all these weapons could be used anywhere

wherever inside Russia, so, you know, into much deeper territory. But of course, he sort of left us wondering whether that means Germany is going to then send its Taurus cruise missiles, which have a lot, lot longer range than the British and the French missiles.

whether he's going to allow a shipment of those to go to Ukraine anytime soon. And it seems that it's still a little bit unclear when and if that is going to happen. Larissa, we're hearing reports that the Chancellor Friedrich Merz may be meeting with Vladimir Zelensky in Berlin on Wednesday. Will they be talking about those Taurus missiles? And could they change Ukraine's prospects in this war?

It's got to be at the top of the list for the Ukrainians because they've been arguing for months that, in fact years, that they need those missiles because Germany's got a significant stockpile of them, several hundred of these Taurus missiles, whereas Britain and the French...

don't have as big a supply of their own long-range weapons. So the German ones are crucial. You know, if this meeting is happening, it goes ahead, then Zelensky's going to want to be really clear that that is a crucial, critical priority for Ukraine as it's continuing to be on the back foot in the war in Ukraine. You know, the Russians are still advancing. They're grinding forward, but they are still advancing forward.

You know, all of the time. And that's going to be extremely worrying for him. And of course, you know, Germany is going to want to now be seen to be helping. There is a change in government and they do have a different mindset, a different perspective on all of this than the predecessors.

How has Moscow, how has the Kremlin responded to all of this? The Kremlin responded quite swiftly. I mean, they're not happy. I think they said something about, you know, this threatens to escalate tensions, as you would expect. And just to go back as well to your previous question, you were saying, you know, what could be the impact of these missiles? The point is, is that a lot of the Russians have obviously moved a lot of their key bases, their logistics hubs,

fuel depots back away from the front line from those areas that Ukraine can target. So if they've got the Taurus missiles that can reach targets from as far as 300 miles away, then they're going to be able to hit some of those crucial key targets with these precision weapons.

And so it could have an impact on those supply lines reaching the Russians at the front, you know, on the front line inside Ukraine. And by cutting off their ability to get fuel or weapons or ammunition, that could really help the Ukrainians on the front line. Is all of this perhaps tacit acknowledgement from allies that peace is further away than ever?

I think that generally people don't see peace coming anytime soon. It's clear that Putin was given this chance by Trump to make a deal. It's obviously not going to happen as many people in Europe for no one actually expected, apart from perhaps Trump and his administration for, you know, no one expected Putin to actually make

suddenly end the war because of course he could have ended the war he could have never started the war and then obviously he could have ended it at any point so I think there is this recognition that this is going to just rumble on and Europe needs to do something to help Ukraine to really get on the front foot again and be able to push the Russians out because that is not happening at the moment on the ground.

And as that rumbles on, you've been talking with some of the Ukrainian soldiers and conscripts who are being trained here in Britain.

Larissa, talk us through Operation Interflex. Yes, this was really fascinating. I've been writing about Britain training Ukrainians for quite a while, but I've never actually gone to see it for myself. And this is the UK mission to train Ukrainians inside the UK. Now, this has been happening at different bases. The Ukrainians fly in and they are given anything from basic training for civilian

that have just suddenly come out from working at their flower shop and are now being trained to be battle ready to be sent back to Ukraine's front lines and also training more senior Ukrainians and things that they don't have the time to be trained in in Ukraine and don't have the facilities and that's things like medical care and other battle

battle techniques and strategies that the UK might focus on. And the Ukrainians that I was chatting to at this base were, you know, they were really fascinating, a whole host of different people. Quite a lot of them had had actually a lot of battle experience. And

obviously I was sort of asking, well, you know, you've been on the front line for several years, what can the British teach you? But they were all pretty optimistic, pretty resilient. They were saying that the UK does have a lot that they can teach. And obviously being here away from all the shelling and the air raid sirens was, you know, a breath of fresh air and it gave them a chance to actually learn. They do quite a lot of interesting stuff to make it seem like it is a war zone. So when they're out on the

the wheat fields, it was in this base, they were playing the sound of bombing. They often put animal organs from the local slaughterhouse on the fences to make them feel like they're in a war zone, obviously trying to replicate, you know, human...

human flesh which is pretty grim and they have actors that are brought in including amputees so it's all very realistic and it gives them a chance to to feel like they're over there but actually then step away from that scene and learn the skills that they need to be able to fight better when they go back to Ukraine. Do we know how this training compares with what Russian conscripts get?

They were saying here they're doing five weeks of training, which is a really condensed course. You know, normally the UK would do that basic infantry course in six months. And compared to the Russians, they were saying that the Russians do it all in just 10 days. So they get barely anything. And I think that kind of speaks to generally the treatment of Russian soldiers who are just being trained.

sent to Ukraine in huge, huge numbers without the proper training or equipment. And actually, one of the Ukrainians was telling me how when they come across the Russians, injured Russians, instead of being taken away for medical training by the Russians, they're just shot in the head by the Russians. So they have a very different treatment of their wounded on the battlefield. Even in what is very compressed training, the Ukrainian soldiers and the British trainers must develop quite a bond.

How do the trainers feel when those troops head back to Ukraine? I think they find it really hard because they spend five weeks with these people and then they obviously develop a friendship with them, a rapport with them. And then they're on their way to the front line and obviously the soldiers, the British soldiers, realise that some of them will die on the front line. That's just the reality of the war at the moment.

And what they do is they do give them a proper farewell. They all stand and line the road as they go out on the coaches and salute them. One of the officers was telling me that he believed that, you know, some of those British soldiers really wished they were actually going with them to fight this war. And in reality, the Ukrainian troops that are going back to Ukraine are fighting a war for Britain because they

It's Ukraine that is having to defend itself against Russia. But if Russia was able to take Ukraine, obviously a lot of people in the West fear that that would mean Putin sending his troops onto the rest of Europe and potentially attacking the UK. So there really was a sense that Ukraine is doing the fighting for them.

Larissa, thank you. Larissa Brown is The Times' defence editor. That's it from us. Thank you for taking 10 minutes to stay on top of the world with the help of The Times. We'll see you tomorrow.

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