Ten years on, has AIIB become a high-standard multilateral institution?
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Hello and welcome to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. Coming up, China's Premier Li Qiang calls on the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank to stay committed to promoting connections here in Asia and elsewhere. We're going to talk to a senior manager with EV battery giant CATL about global EV expansion.

China is tightening control on fentanyl And in shock to democratic politics in the United States, socialist Zohar Mdani wins primary for New York City mayor To listen to this episode again or to catch up on our previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching World Today

Chinese Premier Li Qiang has addressed the 10th annual meeting of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank Board of Governors. Premier Li Qiang affirmed China's commitment to high-standard opening up and China's ongoing deep integration into the world economy. The meeting aims to review the AIIB's achievements over the past one decade and outline its paths for the next one decade.

The Beijing-based AIIB was founded in 2015. Over the past one decade, it has approved more than 60 billion US dollars in terms of financing for over 320 projects. So for more, joining us now on the line is Dr. Yao Shujie, Chang Kong Professor of Economics with Chongqing University.

So thank you very much for joining us today, Professor Yeo. First of all, do you think the AIIB has acted as a truly international, truly rural-based and high-standard multilateral institution over the past decade? AIIB is established basically to promote the investment in the infrastructure of most of the developing countries along China's bail-in-law initiative.

But it's focused on the Asian area. Most of the Asian economy are developing very rapidly. But infrastructure development in many countries are lagging behind the economic development and urbanization requirement.

So China has lots of experience technically and also has significant financial capability. With China to establish the AIIB, I think there are two advantages that China can exploit to help other countries in the Asian regions.

One is the investment technological experience, the other is the technology of building infrastructure such as railway and motorway and also harbour and airline, airport, etc.

So, the establishment itself is to provide international level standard and also openings for all the countries that can benefit from the initiative. This is reflected by the rapidly growing number of the AIIB initiative.

The number is reaching 111 countries, economy not only within Asia but also some other countries in Latin America, in Africa, they also benefit from the bank. And this is for the 10 years of experience and practices, it proved that this initiative is working very, very well.

So a status goal of the AIIB is to serve as a bridge between North-South cooperation and South-South cooperation. In what ways do you think the institution is fulfilling this goal? What do you make of the key qualities that can enable this bank to fulfill this goal? We started with the South and South because the South and South, actually China itself,

is playing a pivotal role in helping the southern countries to raise not only the awareness of infrastructure development and the importance of this kind of development for economic and social development. This is doing very well. And the other thing is the north and south.

Most of the North countries are actually advanced industrialized countries. With the AIIB, China aims to attract investment of the advanced countries to supplement or even support some of the projects that are initiated by AIIB.

So in that sense, I think the AIIB plays a dual role, not only in terms of the integration of the Southern countries, but also built up a very useful bridge

for the North and South countries to tackle the most important issues in terms of infrastructure development and logical change, as well as these kinds of developments to facilitate social and economic development and also raise the general likelihood of the local residents which have been affected by the project.

Now, although the bank itself is named as Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, its projects are actually not geographically confined within the Asian continent. For example, the bank has supported the mission of protecting the tropical rainforest over there in Brazil, in Latin America, and it has also backed

developing renewable energy and waste treatment facilities in Egypt, etc. Why do you think it is also important for the bank to support projects beyond Asia as well?

That's right. I just mentioned that AIIB not only cover the Asian economies, it also have been extended to some countries along the Bell and Law Initiative, which extended beyond Asia, particularly those developing countries in Latin America, such as Brazil, etc., and also Egypt and other parts of the African continents.

Those countries are highly populated, lots of people in those countries and the environmental issue is a big concern.

For example, the protection of the rainforest in Brazil, it not only affects the ecosystem in the Amazon region, but also changes the global climate conditions and also carbon emissions, etc.

Now in Egypt, I mean, Egypt is also a very populous country. It's one of the largest countries in Africa. And the economic development also requires lots of technological support in terms of the waste system treatment. These are requiring lots of investment in capital and technological input.

Now, with the AIIB, it's not only providing the financial need credit, but also it can attract lots of high-tech companies, specialized companies to build a project which facilitates the local development.

not only for the project themselves, but also affect the local company and also enterprises, individuals to be interested and be aware of these kinds of development which could be duplicated in the local region.

So, by the way, Professor Yao, in your opinion, what can be done or what needs to be done to strengthen the synergy between the AIIB and the Belt and Road Initiative and this Global Development Initiative, which we know was raised by President Xi Jinping in 2021? Yeah. You know, President Xi Jinping essentially took power in 2012 as the Chinese leader.

He had quite a lot of creative ideas. The AIIB, as we just focused on, the Bill and Law Initiative, - there are lots of regional and multiregional, - or even at the global level, initiatives, - which to attract attention for the key sustainable development issues - raised by the United Nations.

China's development model is not only for the country itself but also to build up a harmonious international system for the benefit to all the people and also hoping that all the developing countries can enjoy the food of technological and economic development.

So, why China can play this role? Because China itself is a very large developing country. It has suffered a lot in the past, and with the economic, social development, technological change, China has entered to become a newly industrialized and prosperous country.

the Chinese experience is not only useful to the peer countries in Asia, Latin America and Africa, but also China has the capability to sustain these kinds of international and global cooperation, which can be beneficial to all the people, all the countries involved in the process.

So a peaceful, harmonious, integrated development is thought promoted by President Xi Jinping is particularly useful for the global change at the moment. We can see a lot of

regional conflicts here and there, it does require a very stable and responsible business power to support the sustained peaceful and also high-quality development of all the countries involved in the multilateral organizations.

The AIIB was established at the time with an aim to supplement the roles played by those Western-led institutions such as the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund, etc.,

Nowadays, though, there seems to be a pullback of the U.S. support for those financial institutions. The current presidents of the United States tend to claim or tend to argue that those institutions are unfairly benefiting other countries other than the United States.

So, against this backdrop, Professor Yao, what roles do you expect the AIIB to play in the global development agenda?

The World Bank and IMF, I have to acknowledge that it has played a very important role in the international financial market and also the economic system. But the initial role of World Bank and IMF is basically pro-Western countries, particularly the United States. So these international institutions

In terms of international development, it actually lacks a lot of expectation because their key interest is to centralize or anchor on the United States and also the G7 interests instead of the poor countries' interests.

So there is a significant gap in terms of capital need and technological need by the poor countries. The AIIB initiated by China, established by China, the purpose is to help the real need of the developing countries, particularly the less advanced countries in Asia, Latin America and Africa.

So this law is very important because it's rooted in the reality, it's rooted in the real need of the poor country rather than the rich country. So the AIIB, whatever it does, is always on the basic infrastructure, on the construction of the ecosystem. Every project it supports would have some sort of obvious local benefit.

And these local benefits are a very important element for local economy and people's livelihood and the general prosperity of the human being on the Earth.

Hmm. So to what extent do you think the AIIB's future destiny will be interconnected with the advancement of our mission of globalization, for example, as well as China's role in globalization?

China has been fairly open and China has benefited a great deal from the openness, internationalization and the global cooperation. So China has gained a lot of experiences and also advantages in terms of capital investment, technological progress, and human capital.

So China's experience through the AIIB to benefit the other countries is a very effective mechanism and effective instrument that would be sustained in the future.

So in my view, I think AIIB not only plays a very important role in the future, it can be also used more effectively to benefit more countries, more projects, and more people. Thank you very much for joining us. Professor Yao Shujie, Chang Kong Professor of Economics with Chongqing University. You are listening to World Today. I'm Ding Hen in Beijing.

A senior executive from the electric vehicle industry says global EV expansion will continue even amid rising protectionism and shifting industrial policies. Ni Jun, who is the chief manufacturing officer from CATL, namely the world's largest electric vehicle battery producer, says although EV adoption has already surpassed 50%, momentum is far from slowing.

Speaking to my colleague at the ongoing Summer Divorce Forum in Tianjin, northern China, Ni Jun also notes that overseas expansion is now a top priority for his company CATL despite ongoing trade tensions. Here is the interview. At yesterday's panel discussion, you mentioned that the ongoing price war in China's electric vehicle market is unsustainable and destructive.

We have also learned that recently Chinese government has warned against this kind of unhealthy competition. So do you believe the industry is reaching a turning point or do you expect to see this situation continue?

Well, first of all, as I mentioned yesterday's panel discussion, this kind of unhealthy competition is really destructive to the industry. At the end, it's also destructive, affect the consumer. Think about it, if any industry, when every company is not losing money and yet you try to cut the price,

When the price is even below your cost, how can this be sustainable? It's really hurt the industry, hurt the company to innovate, to put more research on the product improvement. So as a result, the consumer will suffer. So in short term, a consumer may say, wow, it's exciting. The price has become so low. Let's buy it. It's like you're having a drug.

And with temporary, you have pleasure, but really it hurts your health, it hurts your life. So I think for the industry, we need to work together to prevent such kind of an unhealthy price war.

What do you think government should do in order to prevent this? Government should establish regulations and rules to prevent it because our government has to come up with a mechanism to evaluate a certain company's initiative, this type of price war. When they already see the prices approaching their cost or even below the cost, government should take actions and should punish those who started this kind of

in a healthy price war. The new safety standard for EV batteries will officially take effect on July 1st next year and is widely seen as the strictest battery safety regulation of its kind in China's history. So what's your assessment of this upcoming regulation, new policy? Do you think it will help eliminate post-collision battery safety risks? And also, how is CATL preparing to meet these upcoming standards?

Well, at CATL, we always believe safety is the number one priority for us. We pay extremely high attention to improve every bit of our business to make sure the product comes out safe. In fact, we come up with the strictest standard in the industry, and most people are still struggling with part-per-million quality standards.

we are actually switching years ago to part per billion quality standard. That means we want to product to have no hazard. In fact, the CA2 invented the NP technology, non-propagation technology. We have not only started NP technology several years ago, now we already advanced to NP 3.0.

And we believe the strict requirement will help the first question you ask about the unhealthy price wall. We want to eliminate those low quality

Let's talk about battery recycling. It's becoming increasingly urgent as production and sales of new energy vehicles continue to grow. So how do you see the battery recycling industry evolving to meet that demand?

And what steps is your company taking to manage the full life scale of its batteries, including recycling and second life applications?

Since the CATO's mission is to help humankind transition to cleaner, sustainable green energy. And so it takes a lot of actions to control, to minimize energy consumption. First of all, internally, when we own our product, we have now up to 10 zero-carbon factories already. Now when we

Practicing this, we also look at how our product, when the product reach the end of the life, how do you recycle this? And that has several purpose. Number one,

We want to sustain the supply. So we instead rely on raw material, virgin material. We use many of the recycled material. Right now our technology can reach up to 99.6% in some of the precious metals like nickel, cobalt, manganese. Even for lithium ion battery with the lithium we can reclaim also more than 92% of the material from the used battery pack.

We believe this is the only way to keep this industry sustainable and help us to transition to our green, sustainable energy. I have also noticed that at yesterday's panel discussion, you mentioned that CTL is making overseas expansion as a top priority in response to customers' demands. How does the company plan to navigate rising protectionism and

shifting industrial policies in markets like the United States and Europe? Well, CATL's customers are around the world. We reach all continents. Our product, whether it's a vehicle product or energy storage product. So we're

try to meet our customers growing demand in Europe, in North America, in Asia, in all kinds of even including Africa. So we are trying to support whenever our customer or hope we can support them most effectively. So we have already in factories in Europe, we have factories

in Asia, and we also work with our customers in North America. Try to come up with innovative ways to support the local peoples. We want to have the best technology, best product,

to be available to people around the world. But how is the U.S. trade policy? We work with our partners. We negotiate differently. We come up with creative solutions. There's different ways depending on the geopolitical situation. Sometimes we are ready to invest by ourselves. Sometimes we work with our partner, form a joint venture. Sometimes we just do a licensee so that they still can enjoy the best quality products

product and the technology. And lastly, Dr. Ni, looking ahead, let's say over the next five to 10 years, how do you see China's EV market and battery industry evolving? And what major trend or challenges do you anticipate?

We believe, based on the current trend, China is a leader in the EV sector. Already, for several months in a row, China's new vehicle sales, the EV, is already exceeding 50%. So more than an IC engine vehicle. That's a significant

a milestone. I believe personally, I can see the next three to five years, this penetration rate of an EV vehicle in the market will continue to grow. Once it reaches a tipping point of 65, 70%, then most of the consumer psychology, they will follow. Right now, most of the vehicles are

purchased by early adopters and young people. They want to see the excitement of driving EV and they enjoy the intelligent driving assistance and enjoy all the multimedia surroundings. So that is early adopters. But now I can see when the majority of consumers are also looking into that,

the time is coming. So I also believe the same thing, since we only have one planet, we want to protect the environment. More countries, more regions will adopt the green transition. So I'm very hopeful. This is a rising industry.

Ni Jun, Chief Manufacturing Officer from CATL, talking with my colleague Xu Yawen. Coming up, China tightens control on fentanyl. You are listening to World Today, I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. We'll be back after a very short break.

You're back with World Today, I'm Ding Han in Beijing. China has strengthened control on two chemicals that can be potentially used to make fentanyl. Six Chinese government agencies have added these two particular chemicals to a list of precursor chemicals for fentanyl that will be under stricter government controls. The new regulation or the new restrictions will take effect on July the 20th.

China's foreign ministry says the action is an independent measure taken by Beijing, in line with the United Nations Drug Convention, and demonstrates China's attitudes of actively participating in global drug governance. So for more, joining us now on the line is Professor Jia Douzhong from the School of International Studies, Peking University. Thank you very much for joining us, Professor.

Hello, Professor, are you there? Yeah, now it's better. Okay, so first of all, Professor, can you tell us more about the two chemicals targeted by Chinese authorities? Some reports say they are fundamental to resolving the fentanyl issue. Is that the case in your observation? Whether or not it's fundamental to resolve the fentanyl,

Tariff issue, that's a decision for the U.S. side to make. These two chemicals are known to have, number one, caused deaths, both in the United States and in other societies. Number two, more importantly, they are known to have no medical value. As was said, it's said in the Chinese medicine,

I mean, a white paper on China's treatment of the fentanyl class materials. There are thousands of these chemicals or precursor chemicals that can be processed, synthesized into fentanyl as a final product. Thousands of them have no medical value. So there is nothing really outstanding. It's just these two that are called chemicals.

uh, hyper-returned materials that are found to have caused problems in the U.S. This does not mean there are other, there are not other materials that need to be scheduled. Now, more importantly,

On July 19, China put nitrogen as a class under control, very much like fentanyl, which China did before. Now, nitrogen has been known to have caused problems in North America and in some parts of Europe.

And that material is actually, it's also synthesized, right? It's synthetic material. Nitrosines are known to be several times, or in some cases, 25 or 40 times more toxic than fentanyl. Okay.

Okay, I see. So according to China's official information, Chinese immigration officials have seized 2.4 tons of drugs and arrested more than 260 suspects for drug smuggling so far this year. In addition to that, China or Chinese officials said

prosecuted more than 1,300 people and arrested more than 700 people nationwide for drug-related money laundering offenses from January to May this year, representing a 2.1% year-on-year increase. What responsibilities does China need to take under this United Nations Drug Convention?

Well, those arrests and the tracking at the border mainly have to do with the inflow from Southeast Asia. We have long borders, both on land and by air through the sea. And if you look at Chinese official documents tracking many of these illicit materials coming to China from the Gulf of Thailand,

That's a different way of, you know, an Asian way of talking about the country source, and many times because it comes from a maritime or marine sources, it takes longer time to ascertain the country source of it. But when you ask about responsibilities under the UN-Durk control regime, look, China is

Other countries, you know, we are all at the same time a site of production, a site of transit, and a site of a...

final consumption of illicit drugs. So the UN Convention on Drugs and Narcotics, you have three treaties, you have a UN decision-making bodies. They are a very useful platform, and China should contribute to making these agencies work more effectively.

Recently, China's Minister of Public Security had a meeting with the newly appointed U.S. Ambassador Mr. David Padour to discuss efforts to fight drug trafficking. Is this a sign that confidence-building in terms of tackling the fentanyl issue is going on between Beijing and Washington? Well, between China and the United States, as a high-level policy matter,

I would think if I were a Chinese government official, it's one of those situations where you are damned when you do and you are damned when you don't. Meaning, yes, some of these chemicals are produced here in China. Yes, some of the chemicals have no medical use, but many of these chemicals, which can be turned into precursors, have other industrial use or commercial use. Now,

the product turning many of these chemicals into a final product is not done here in China. And there are many other countries mentioned in that process. But then,

On a more grand scale, you have the supply and demand. Nobody is throwing these drugs down to the throat of anyone. Your consumption drives demand. Demand drives supply. So I don't want to characterize this as confidence boosting or whatnot. I would think

As I have written as well, I have advocated, it's for both China and the United States to treat

illicit regards for the cooperation under the UN system parallel to trade and other issues, rather than making one being president a precondition of another. So in other words, it's by no means a good idea to make the fentanyl issue as part of the trade issue between the two countries. There's no connection. There should not be.

That has to be clear. Okay. Thank you very much for putting everything into perspective. Professor Jia Daojiong, joining us from the School of International Studies, Peking University. Coming up, we will take a look at a 2025 China-European Union Human Rights Seminar held in Spain. This is World Today. We'll be back.

Hello, my name is Alessandro Golombievski Teixeira. I'm a professor of Public Policy Management at Tsinghua University in Beijing. I am a great listener of The Wall Today. In my opinion, The Wall Today is one of the best China radio programs.

In the World Today, we can get the best news and analysis in what is happening now in the world. So please come to join us. You are listening to World Today. I'm Ding Hen in Beijing. Representatives from China and the European Union have adopted a consensus document urging actions to counter technological dominance and close digital gaps in order to better safeguard human rights.

This particular message was at the center of the 2025 China-European Union Human Rights Seminar held in Spain.

Amid growing global concerns over data governance, for example, as well as artificial intelligence ethics, the seminar highlighted the shared commitment between China and the European Union to updating human rights frameworks for the digital era. My colleague Song-Rui Xin earlier spoke with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder of Germany's think tank Schiller Institute, who is also a keynote speaker at this particular event.

Helga, I see you participated in the conference and gave a speech, right? So what is the significance of a conference like this? Well, I think this was extremely important because obviously artificial intelligence has opened an entirely new chapter in the history of mankind. It has increased the effectiveness of human beings in so many areas.

And naturally, this brings on the one side enormous advantages, but on the other side it opens many new moral or ethical questions.

So this conference was on how to protect human rights and I was very impressed because especially the young people demonstrated a very acute understanding of what is required to protect privacy, data protection, how to protect people against the manipulation of fake news.

So I think it was a very important step and I was also very happy to see that the intention of China and the European Union seemed to be very much in tune. And in times of big turbulence, I think such a cooperation between China and Europe is extremely important. So I think it was quite a success.

Okay, so your speech topic is "Makes a Beautiful Soul". What inspired you to choose this theme and why has human rights become an increasingly important topic in this so-called era of digital intelligence?

Well, AI is like every intelligence, very much dependent if it's used for good purposes or bad ones. And that depends very much on the character of the person or the persons who are applying it. You know, the advantage obviously is that it frees men completely from repetitive labor. It gives people much more free time.

for lifelong learning, you know, so it has incredible benefits because, you know, it really is a new chapter in the history of mankind. On the other side, it brings the dangers of surveillance and, you know, many other dangers.

So I think it is important to recognize that we are entering a completely new paradigm in international relations. And I think that the new era must be characterized by an end of geopolitical thinking and thinking more of how to organize relations among nations

so that each one is concerned about the benefit of the other and vice versa rather than confrontation. I think that that is why I think the aesthetic education of men

will play an increasingly important role for the future. Later on the 26th, there's a reader's colloquium on Xi Jinping's theme on respecting and protecting human rights. So from your opinion, what contributions has China made to the global protection of human rights? Well, it depends how you define human rights. I mean, I personally think that poverty is one of the most severe problems

violations of human rights, because if you are poor, like many countries, many people in the global south, and you have to be concerned that you have a meal for the next day, you cannot unfold your potentials as a human being, and you are reduced to just trying to survive. Now, if you look at human rights from that standpoint, then China has done more than any other country

to overcome poverty, 850 million within China, including in the rural areas where I think in particular Xi Jinping had a hands-on approach to make sure that every family

found a way of overcoming poverty. And given the fact that the Belt and Road Initiative is now almost 12 years being realized, many, many projects which were realized in the countries of the Global South

have opened for these countries for the first time the possibility to overcome the remnants of neo-colonialism and develop industrialization for their own countries. So I think that the role of China, I really think, has been not appreciated enough in terms of the civilizational contribution China has made for human rights.

And I know that not everybody agrees with that view, but if you really are serious, then you have to come to that conclusion. So looking ahead, like you've mentioned about Global South, as AI systems become more embedded in people's daily life, how can the EU concretely support or

cooperate with global South countries in strengthening their digital and technological capacities while ensuring fair representation in global digital governance frameworks? Well, I mean, obviously, before you can even talk about digitalization, you have to develop the most basic infrastructure without which nothing else functions.

If you take Africa, for example, there are 600 million people who have not yet access to electricity. I think what Europe and China should do together is develop joint ventures to bring electrification to all African nations.

and that way the preconditions for digital development can be poured. I think this is extremely important because Europe is no longer the center of the universe, which some people think it is, but the global majority represents 85 to 88% of the human population, and they must find an appropriate and adequate representation in all of these agreements.

which means they have to be represented as 85 or 88% of the human population. In the context of EU and China cooperation on AI governance, how can we kind of strike a balance between technological innovation, ethical oversight and the protection of individual rights? Well, I think obviously one needs agreements, one needs to...

make sure that these agreements have an oversight. But I think that all agreements depend on the same principle what I mentioned in the beginning, that I think we have reached an era of humanity where we have to become adults.

And that means, you know, we really must stop to try to impose the will of one nation over others or a group of nations over others, which means, you know, we have to end geopolitics. We have to enter a system based on the five principles of peaceful coexistence. And if we have that attitude, then every single problem can be solved in a good spirit of taking care of the benefit of the other.

which I think is the only way how we can survive as a human family. So at the current stage, my final question, Helge, what are the main difficulties in reaching this kind of consensus? Well, I think that we have still a situation where, you know, for example, trust issues.

has almost been lost in international relations. I think we need to rebuild trust. I think there are many areas which are much more difficult, like for example the military application of AI is a big topic which

which I think has played a role in the recent Middle East conflict. I mean, these things demonstrate that our fate as mankind is not secure yet. And we have to make a redoubled effort

you know, to arrive at a system where humanity can survive and live together in a harmonious way. And I think, you know, the Chinese approach of cooperation instead of confrontation has been really a guiding light where to go.

Helga Zapp-Larouche, founder of Germany's Schiller Institute, talking with my colleague Song Rui-Hsing. Coming up, in shock to democratic politics in the United States, socialist Zohan Madani wins primary for New York City mayor. This is World Today, stay tuned.

The newly launched Payment Connect scheme between China's mainland and Hong Kong is set to transform cross-border payments, making transfers faster, cheaper and as simple as using a phone number. How may it reshape trade, tourism and convenience across the Greater Bay Area? Will it pave the way for broader use of the digital Chinese currency and future breakthroughs in global finance?

Get these and more on this week's Chat Lounge, wherever you get your podcasts, and on CGTN Radio.

You're listening to World Today, I'm Ding Han in Beijing. In the United States, a socialist is upsetting mainstream democratic politics by taking a commanding lead in the New York City mayoral primary. With over 95% of the vote counted, Zohan Madani led his arch-rival Andrew Cuomo 44% to 36%. Addressing supporters, Madani said he and Cuomo need to bring the nation's biggest city together.

The 33-year-old Zohar Madani is a member of the New York State Assembly. He was actually born in Uganda and also has an Indian ancestry. If elected, he would become the first Muslim and Asian American mayor of New York City as well as the city's youngest mayor in one century.

So joining us now on the line is Harvey Zeldin, former vice president of ABC TV Network and a senior fellow of the Center for China and Globalization. Thank you very much for joining us. Sure. So for a month, Andrew Cuomo had led in the polls. So now there is a reversal. There is a turnaround. What do you think has really enabled Zohar Madani to win this primary?

I think people in New York are tired of rhetoric. Words don't pay the bills. The words don't help people have a better quality of life.

And Mr. Mamdani hit the nail on the head when he concentrated on making living in a very expensive place more affordable. Nothing to do with ideology or anything like that, but it's more a message of common prosperity.

He also used the social media very, very well. And he was everywhere, both online and offline. He ran a very energetic campaign. And considering that he was at 1% a couple months ago, it's a remarkable comeback. So does this race in NYC serve as a bellwether for the larger Democratic Party as well? It could. It could.

It should definitely be a wake up call. The Democratic Party, and I consider myself a Democrat, the Democratic Party has tied itself up into a knot over ideology and who is more right and who's more left and who's more centrist. And so people are tired of that. They want results. And Mamdani

campaign on these issues that people are concerned about. In fact, he carefully studied Donald Trump's campaign, and that was that people are hurting, that they don't know how they're going to pay their next bill. They don't know how things are going to be affordable again. And Mbani has been

painted a roadmap really for doing so. And I believe that's why he was so successful against these giants, one of whom was a former governor and from a political family and another one, the mayor who was under a cloud. In other words, they are the political establishment within the Democrats, right?

Yes, exactly. So Madani says if elected, he would prioritize the needs of the working class. How do you think things will work? How do you think things will turn out when the New York City, which can be arguably called or labeled as one of the most capitalist cities, not only in America, but worldwide, is

How do you think the New York City can be governed by a socialist mayor? Oh, look, New York City and the five boroughs, it's over 8 million people.

And there's every class of people there from very poor to very rich. And I lived in New York City for over 20 years. I consider myself middle class, except at the beginning of the month when the bills came due. And I definitely thought of myself at that time as a working class person. So I believe that somebody like him who believes in common prosperity,

will resonate not only with the people of New York, but has a much broader message to the United States where people just want to get by and they want the return of the American dream

that's been missing for so long. It's kind of like the Chinese dream that you have, but the American dream is that people want to be proud of the country and want to be able to afford a good quality of life. But isn't that sentiment also something that the Trump campaign or the Trump movement is also trying to cater to? Well, if you look at the words, yes.

If you look at the results, no. If you look at the people that Trump caters to, who his legislation is directed at, it's trillionaires and people with all the money

And there's lip service for everybody else, but for the rich people, they get all the attention. Look at Jeff Bezos. This weekend, he has a wedding coming up that's supposed to cost $50 million. Imagine if he were taxed more highly and that money could be spread to more people for hospitals, for schools, for libraries, etc.

and things. So it's not about what politicians say, it's about what they deliver. And in America, unlike China,

Talk is cheap. Talk is cheap. So what we see here, what we have here is that previously we saw Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren, these big names from the Democratic Party as well, enjoying a lot of popularity among the younger voters in America. And now we're seeing the momentum of Madani's

What do you think this tells us about the socialist movement in America and what kind of socioeconomic problems do you think it is pointing to? I believe that the problems are problems of all the people and not just the few. And so people like you mentioned, and you should include Alexandria Hogan,

ocasio-cortez who was a bartender who was elected at age 28 to the house of representatives these people are the future because they're promising that people can have a good life and not have to struggle as they are i think it's a universal message and uh whether you call it socialism or whatever term you put on it it's not important it's how the results get

President Trump called Mandani a raving communist, a lunatic. And this is not the case. I think there's a strong movement in America for many decades for socialism, which means spreading the wealth. And so I'm...

I believe that that's where we could be headed if the Democratic Party sees the light, which it doesn't seem to yet. But if Mamdani gets elected, I think there's a chance that the political fortunes are shifting in a more socialist direction. Thank you very much for joining us. Harvey Zoldan, former vice president of ABC TV Network and a senior fellow from the Center for China and Globalization.

That's all the time for this edition of World Today. To listen to this episode again or to catch up on our previous episodes, you can download our podcast by searching for World Today. I'm Dinghan in Beijing. Thank you so much for listening. Bye for now.