Episode 1610 - Bill Burr
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All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. I'm recording this on Sunday. I am in Denver, Colorado. So it's not Monday morning, but I know it is for most of you. And I know for at least a few of you, it's not Monday morning.

Seventy five million, 17,626 of you. This is going to be a horrible day and it's going to be a horrible day for America. And it will go down in history as one of the worst days of this country, because after today, we're not really going to know the nature of our country. I don't know what happens now. And I'm as scared as you are. And just know that they they love it.

They love our fear. They want us to be subjugated by all of their actions, policies, points of view to push back on the marginalized populations of our of our country with no social reprisal. Look, I'm all about free speech, but just know that it's now conditional to abide by their rules, which I think mostly will be shut the fuck up.

Equal rights are going to be on the back burner. If ever coming back, I don't know. The living wage also on the back burner. Will it ever happen? I don't know. Health care for all. Will that ever happen? I don't know. The idea of sustainability being an important project for the human species. I don't know where that is either. They finally won the war against tolerance.

And now we got to live with it. But again, I don't think that number is unsubstantial. I mean, when you think about the electoral map, which is oddly a lot like the duty watch app that I've been tracking to watch fires, you know, red is a problem, all shades of it. It's a problem because despite what anybody thinks, it was always sort of the loophole of democracy that it was possible that you could freely elect a fascist that will end it.

And, you know, I don't know, the nature of democracy as a government body seems to be very codependent, suffers the same problem as any codependent situation. You know, you've got this idea, this body, this entity that wants everyone to be treated equally, that wants, you know, everybody to be on the same level. It's a real people-pleasing idea. And people-pleasers are vulnerable to racism.

major assholes and profound gaslighting. So here we sit at the precipice of an authoritarian America where people will be nominated and put in positions of power where they have no capability of doing it correctly or don't know the job. Primarily so, the autocrat at the top of the pyramid has all the say and all the power. He's terrorized his

his stooges and the Senate and Congress and in business to fear for their own lives, if not their own careers in politics, if they do not do what he does. And that fundamentally, I don't know, it doesn't sound like democracy. I'm not trying to bum you out, but this is where we are today. And I don't look,

My fears are the same as many of yours. I mean, I know some people in their denial or in their need to adapt are like, well, we'll see what happens. Yeah, we will. But it's not going to be good. And the dread and isolation and feelings of despair are real. And again, they love it.

This is a trolling population of autodidactic meatheads with heads full of garbage and bits and pieces that enable them to

bully and just gloat and find a real joy in that somehow or another, their disposition, which is basically built on the idea that empathy is for suckers and everyone's on their own and you just got to make do. And a lot of people that I thought were once relatively decent people have locked into this political movement as a way to

to make their personal fortunes and continue their grift. And I don't know, I, it's not that I assumed that humans were all innately good, but it's sort of interesting to watch the ones that you thought were somewhat well-balanced, you know, buckle for their own intentions. You know, I flew out of a fire zone into a blizzard and the dread of waiting for fire, uh,

Day to day, that feeling of a lack of control, a powerlessness in the face of natural disaster is a lot to live with. And then I came out here to Denver and did a couple of amazing shows. Great people out here in Boulder and in Fort Collins. We really had a good time. Me and Makovsky did some great sets and did what we could to ease the stress. But there was a blizzard in that feeling of driving on ice.

Driving on ice in a just a, you know, a car that isn't an all wheel drive and that weird tension where you just don't know when the car is just going to start sliding without you. That fear of powerlessness. I guess it was a primer. Is that the word I want? It was priming me for what's going to happen today and what it's going to feel like for God knows how long.

But again, the desire to isolate and lose yourself in your phone and losing to yourself in basking, you know, frightening information or information that's bullshit. I'm not suggesting, you know, denial, but I am suggesting that, you know, somehow or another, we try to keep our fucking heads together.

I mean, on some level, a little bit of denial is necessary just so you don't lose your fucking mind. Maybe don't look at your phone right when you wake up in the morning. Give it a few hours. Take a breath. Have a nice breakfast. And then blow your brains out with the fucking phone because it's going to be a shit show. It's going to be just like checking for fires.

It's going to be every day of that. Every fucking day. This week is going to be horrifying for tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of families who will be ripped out of their homes and thrown into transport vehicles and taken wherever, possibly to camps, possibly to countries that they haven't lived in as families for decades, maybe ever.

And, you know, that'll probably be on TV. But this is what making America great looks like to, you know, about 77,301,917 people in this country. Taking the rights away from women. This is what makes America great. This is what does it. It's a small price to pay, right? For people who just want their eggs to be cheaper on the backs of this kind of bullshit. But look, again, don't want to be negative. Just want to say, hey,

Try to hold on to yourselves. Try to hold on to who you are. Try to get involved on a, you know, community level, on a state level. See if we can, you know, regroup something or hold the line in terms of just treating people with some fucking decency because the war on tolerance has been won. And, you know, tolerance was the necessary lubricant for democracy to function. And I don't really even know what to do with the 110 million people that didn't vote at all. But, you know, who knows? They're the wild card, I guess.

But I do know, again, that 75 million plus people do not want this. And that's almost half. It's a difference of a couple million people. So we're out there. They're out there to try to do the right thing in their day-to-day life and probably try to do the right thing in the civic world of your community, of your state. And yeah, I don't really know what happens there.

But look, you can still enjoy a nice meal. You can still entertain yourself. You can still run your errands. You can still have your friends. Just try to hold on to your minds, will you? Could you? Try to take care of the people that are vulnerable in the way that you can.

I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Lobrero Theater on Thursday, January 30th. San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on January 31st. That's a Friday. Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater on February 1st, Saturday. Iowa City at the Ingler Theater on Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa at Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel Theater.

On Thursday, February 20th, Nashville, Tennessee. At the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21st, Louisville, Kentucky. At the Baumhart Theater on Saturday, February 21st in Lexington, Kentucky. At the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd.

I'll be in Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan in March and April. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. The set is coming along pretty well. I'm trying to think that that has any relevance or importance to anybody. That's the other thing about this thing.

is to think that whatever you're doing is futile. Can't think that way. And, you know, and also try not to let your mind slip and, you know, kind of drift into thinking that maybe this isn't so bad. I guess that again falls under the denial umbrella, which might be necessary, but it's going to be challenging. It's going to be challenging just to, to maintain yourselves. Today, I talked to Bill Burr, you know, he's been on several times over the years,

I see him at the comedy store all the time. He's got a couple of things coming up. His new comedy special called Drop Dead Years comes out in March on Hulu. He's also going to be in the Broadway production of Glengory Glen Ross with Bob Odenkirk, Kieran Culkin and Michael McKean. That's going to be I think that's starting. Well, they're going to start rehearsals in March. Look, you know, I wanted to talk and in some ways I had to talk.

to people who were around during the fire because everything stopped. And these fires are being managed miraculously by amazing teams of firefighters. Thank God somebody, many people, there is a type of person that wants to fight fires because, you know, with civil servant jobs and jobs that, you know, seem, I don't know, like there's a lot of

Jobs that are sort of thankless, but this isn't one of them and it is driven by people that want to fight fires That is what they want to do. That is their purpose in life and thank God They exist because if there were people that were like, well, I don't know this firefighting racket, you know There's not a lot into it. There's no future in it. I don't like my health care. It's very dangerous So yeah, I'm not into it. I'm gonna do something easier. I

Thank God there are people that want to fight fires with all their heart and save lives. It's amazing. And, you know, I guess on some level, we're all going to have to become firefighters metaphorically in our own way, in the ways that we can. Again, I'm not trying to be negative, but I'm just trying to be

Realistic. But Bill is here because he was around and he had to evacuate. And a lot of the talks we've had lately are pretty present. They're not backlogged. And it's good catching up with him. You know, we have our own issues, me and Bill. But, you know, he's sort of leveling off and he's really kind of fighting the good fight to be a decent fella. It takes time.

So, yeah, the blizzards, I've been in a blizzard. It was kind of a blizzard. It just got very cold. And, you know, I know it's hip for the grifting entertainers to kind of poo-poo climate change. And maybe we've passed the point of no return. And this is just the new reality. 23 degree below zero wind chills in Denver to the point where the hotel couldn't even heat itself anymore.

And, you know, the ice and a lot of it's just regular stuff. But we're on the precipice of a lot of dark stuff. And for those of us who are still alive and not excited about it, it's going to take everything we got, you know, just to do our part to push back on it or to just adapt to it, to find some quality of life in the middle of it. Oh, my God. So dark. It's so negative. Yeah.

But I'm going to go have some coffee. Look, I can tell you this. I'll keep doing this. I'll keep talking to people. I'll keep figuring out a way with my heavy heart to find humor in things or just to be self-righteous occasionally. You know, what are you going to do? So look, Bill Burr came by the other day and we hadn't talked in a while. And Bill Burr, you know, struggles. You know, he's he he is struggling with himself.

And that's where a lot of the good stuff starts. So his new comedy special, Drop Dead Years, will premiere on Hulu on March 14th. Glengory Glenn Ross opens on Broadway and previews on March 10th. Opening night is March 31st. Tickets are on sale now. This is me and Bill the other day.

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It's kind of ironic in some way that you were coming over and then I fucked that coffee grinder up. And I went through this with that coffee grinder before. Like, I couldn't get it to do the right grind. It was all the same, you know, it was like dirt. So now I bought two of them and I've got to find that part. So I was in the middle of that project. But that's a day, you know, it's going to be okay. And you were like, you're probably mad about something else. Yeah, I think so. But I mean, I am mad about that as well.

Right, but do you find the level that it goes to to be a little excessive? Like ripping out a drawer? Yeah, I broke things trying to... If I just slow down... Well, no, I think I got a little dramatic. But I was thinking about your... I watched a special. I think...

Because I deal with a lot of the same stuff you do. How old are you now? 51? No, I'm 56. Oh, so you're not that far from me. Yeah. Like a lot of this stuff's coming up for me too. The, you know, the sadness. And I've talked about that before. But like, I think, and this observation, that's kind of like something you would observe. Like if I'm driving alone and I get lost or I get frustrated, you know, I just sit in it.

But if there's someone there, then I'm going to be like, Jesus Christ. Oh, really? Yeah. Like, you know, like when, if you're driving alone, you know where you're going, you'll figure it out. But if there's someone sitting there, be like, where the fuck, where the fuck are we? Right. Like, you know, you need the audience. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's interesting. I wouldn't go that way. I kind of flip out whether there's somebody there or not. Yeah. I flipped out on the way here. You did? By what? Because I was...

I'd put in your address. Yeah. But then on the way, I was like, oh, there's this coffee shop I want to go to. So once I kept shutting it off. Yeah. And then I would go back into the map and it would automatically put your thing there. Yeah. And I screamed as loud as you could scream. I don't fucking want to do that.

And I was just like, what is wrong with me? Like, what the fuck is wrong with me? So how'd you, like with this, the fire thing, like how, how'd you fucking handle it? And I think you were on Kimmel last night, but you talked about it a little bit. Yeah, I, you know, I. For real though. Did you freak out? No, I don't freak out on these things, but I am freaking out somewhere. I'm just not in touch with it. But you weren't directly threatened? I didn't freak out during 9-11. I didn't freak out during the pandemic. I didn't freak out.

During this thing. But I freak out about the fucking Google map thing not working. So what I kind of was figuring out last night when I was on Kimmel is that because I don't flip out about the big shit. Yeah. I am. The little shit is where it comes out. So I'll flip out about a cell phone because I'm upset about what I saw, you know, when I was in New York and that stuff happened or whatever. Right. But you weren't, your house wasn't in danger? No.

No, yeah, no, it got a little scary there. That's what I mean. Yeah, so we, you know, definitely... Did you load up? Yep, load up, had to get out of there. You had a mandatory evacuation? Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But it was like, you know, I saw this, the flames never got close enough, but like, you knew they were coming and it was just kind of like this. Yeah, and it was like...

You know, it's just, yeah, I feel very, like, fortunate that survivors guilt. Yeah, I got a little of that. I freaked out. Wait, where does the benefit start with this many frigging people? What, you mean insurance? Yeah.

No, I mean just as far as helping people out. Yeah, insurance company. That's the thing I was talking about on Kimmel is how they always keep it on all the homeless people, all the immigrants. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about the insurance companies that aren't going to pay anybody a dime and still give themselves a bonus? What about those guys? It's going to be fucked. What about all these landlords that are now a two-bedroom in Pasadena is nine grand a month? Bastards. What about these hotels that was 89 bucks and it went up to like 700 bucks? Yeah. These fucking, and I met this guy at the In-N-Out was saying like, yeah, my landlord's trying to evict me. Yeah.

Yeah, really? Well, because there's all that Palisades money and they don't have any. So now these areas that were working class, they're trying to get that money. I think that they're trying to do that. Yeah, but that becomes that sort of like that shock doctrine capitalism business. Like, I don't know who's going to rebuild in the Palisades, but, you know, if a developer comes in there and offers enough money to buy out all that property, they'll probably take it. Oh, yeah. Well, how about the fact that banks won't even freeze it for two months? Like, you have to keep paying your mortgage, even though your fucking house burned down.

They won't even give you like a, hey, you know, you're going through a difficult time. You're a fellow American. You're fucked. You have to keep paying that thing. Plus getting gouged by these landlords and in hotels. Yeah. It's ridiculous. And I get that. This is why I don't fucking watch politics. They are, politicians are grossly underpaid. Their job is to give you and me somebody to blame and get mad at. And then,

And then their job is they stand there and they get yelled at. And then all the fucking people that they're really working for, they fucking, like, you can't make 200 grand a year and your portfolio is worth 60 million bucks. That just doesn't work that way. Yeah, you just become a money laundering operation. Yes. Big business. And also, like, well, the idea was that, you know, you try to make government work for people or protect people. And then there's one side that just wants none of that. They just privatize everything. Fuck everybody. Can I tell you something? Yeah. One of the dumbest theories out there is this form of government works better than that form of government. They're all corrupt.

They're all corrupt. They will be. Communism, capitalism. They never seem to make room for, they never seem to acknowledge the potential for greed.

You know what I mean? Like, it's a great idea. You know what's funny? But if somebody gets in there, they're like, I got an angle. Yeah. We can run money through this. Yeah. Yeah. I did a gig in Finland one time, and they had like socialism where they had over there. Yeah. And they go, yeah, we don't have any rich people in our country. And I said, really? They go, do you have banks? And they said, yeah. And I just laughed. Somebody's making money. Do you have sociopaths here? Yeah. Then somebody's fucking with the deal. Plenty of sociopaths.

You can call it whatever you want. But when you were in that moment, though, because when I decided I was going to freak out and leave, I did it voluntarily because I couldn't read my app right. I saw the red section, and it was right over there on the two. And I'm down. It's 7 in the morning. I got a guy coming to paint because my kitchen had a leak in it.

And we're standing out there. My neighbor comes out and I'm like, what are you guys going to do? It feels like it's close. And it's like, yeah, but I don't think it's that close. And then we just saw this black cloud come over the whole fucking neighborhood. And the painter goes, you better get out of here. So I got to load up these three cats. I got one crate. I'm putting one in the hamper. I got one taped one in a box. And I go to Hollywood to the Hampton Inn and I figure I'm good. I get them all in. I buy other crates. I'm...

And then that catches on fire. I watched it catch on fire. I could see it. The one by the comedy store. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I could see it blow up. And I'm like, you got to fucking... Now I got to move again? But nonetheless...

I found that in that moment, like I can focus. Like you talk about calm. It's not that I don't respond to big things, but I'm always happy that, you know, no matter how panicky or fucking nuts I am, that when the shit hits the fan, I can show up and do it. Yeah. Well, burning to death is pretty good motivation to get the fuck out of there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I didn't panic and be like, I don't know what

know what to do. Which way do I go? Yeah, you don't want to be the guy shitting himself. How'd you decide what to load up? It was very quick. I don't care about stuff. Me neither. You know what I did? I took my pilot's license and my log book. Passport? Passport and my laptop. Cash?

No, I just grabbed... I'm not a gangster. I don't have like cash in the fucking walls or anything. Yeah, we just, you know, we spent some time with some friends in the valley and then we went out to the desert. And I just thought after a couple, two, three days, it was going to be over. And it's just like... This is the one thing I do is I don't watch the news at all. Yeah. Because I'm already crazy enough. I don't need these people...

You know, like the job... You know, CNN, Fox News, all they do is just stir people up and get... That's right. Then they get their own countrymen fighting. Like, I think they should all be in jail for treason. Yeah. Because if you make money by dividing Americans, these fucking nerds who own these apps, who just have bots on there, just making everything political to get people to argue, but no one...

It's fucking... Fucks with those guys. So what I'm trying to do is to get the message out to the guys. We're all on the same team here. Yeah, people. Let's, yeah, let's, we need to like respect each other and we got to stop, we got to help each other. Yeah, I noticed that message. Like, you know, I've watched a lot of your standup and I know you fairly well. We've had our moments.

Mark, I think we've both had our moments with everyone. It goes without saying. I know, but like you have, but people just assume that I don't want to talk to him. Do you know what I mean? They're like, he's intense. You know what I mean? Right. So they stay away from me for that way. I think that you, it's like, yeah, it's going to come. What do you mean? Well, I mean, he might get a little defensive pretty quickly and get angry about something. As opposed to you? Did you just put me higher up on the hill of psycho?

A little. Yeah, all right. Well, I'll let you. I understand how you're wired. You're on the narcissist spectrum. I'll give you that. Are you? No, I am on the low self-esteem. I got that. I don't know if I'm narcissistic. I'm just selfish. Crushing need to be liked. Oh. So I don't have that thing where I like.

just fucking you know I mean the farthest I'll go is if somebody cuts me off in traffic you know I'll get in a fuck you fuck you fight with somebody but I would never like whatever you know you have an acting gig and treat a PA like shit no I don't do that I would never do like I'm not like that so like I've had to tell people in my life where like maybe you've had this too where it's like I'm not yelling at you I'm just yelling

Like I'll yell. I used to be that guy. I don't do that. I know I'm yelling now. I do. I do know I'm yelling. But not at somebody? Yeah, but I also, no, I also understand. No. And I've also gotten like, you know, the people in my life now I have like, you know, I think I gravitated to some of the same kind of wired people and it was just like,

You know, it was like junkyard dogs in a fucking pit fighting over a pork chop. But like, yeah, you can't hang out with guys like Dean Del Rey. Dean's like a total chill guy. Totally chill. So he's like one of the great people that I've met in this business. Yeah. Great friend of mine. And like I've I've it's good to hang around Dean when you're like us. Because he'll just level it off. Just keeps it level.

Well, I mean, I've never had an argument with that guy. Exactly. But I have like, you know, I got a good group of people that like, it's like, oh, this can be easy. Yeah. This doesn't have to be like, hey, bro, sorry about the other day, like once a month or whatever. So, you know, and a lot of that shit, obviously, I was bringing to the table. I was pretty impressed during the last fight we got into.

over whatever the fuck it was in the green room. Dude, I've had so many fights with you, and I don't remember what any of them are about. Well, I kind of knew what that was about, but there was a couple things I remember about it, though. Oh, the last one? I do remember the last one. You were trying to get a freebie in, and then you tried to act like you weren't.

You came walking in and you go, I could hear your voice from down the hall. And I go, I could smell your bitterness. And you go, hey, man. Hey, man. I'm just fucking around. I'm like, no, you weren't. You're in a bad mood. And I was the first guy you heard. And now you're being a cunt. No, this was a different thing. It was over a topic. It was over...

due process. And we were in the, yeah, well, that cancel culture shit was going on. Right. We were in the green room and Jess, there's a couple other people there and you go off on me.

And all I remember is like, I'm going to have to just fucking take this. I'm going to have to stand. I'm not, I can't walk away from it. I'm going to have to hold my ground and wait till this shit passes. And you go, and then I go. But the thing I noticed was, you know, within three minutes, you were like, you know, maybe I should be on the women's side once in a while. Like the distance between outburst and apology was tight. I was proud of both of us. Yeah. I thought we did pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

No, we're in a good place. And I know another one because of the way we're wired is coming. But I don't take it seriously. Like, you could literally say the most fucked up thing you could possibly say to me. And I'm going to be like, the next time I see him, he's going to be like, hey, man. Right. Well, yeah, I get that, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't get it. But I don't rage anymore. And I guess, because I remember, like, I don't remember. Dude, you just ripped a fucking drawer out of your cabinet. Yeah.

You know what it is about guys like that? No one was around. No one witnessed it. No. What it is, if you're like me, what you saw growing up, you're not anywhere near, so you think you're not crazy, but it's like your definition of crazy is so beyond regular people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that tends to happen. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's that you can't get away from what you grew up in. But I remember, I don't remember, when did you have that revelation thing?

I haven't talked to you in a long time in a long-form conversation. I remember you did mushrooms once. Yeah. And a week or so after, you're like, oh, man. You had it all figured out for a minute. You saw some... That's the honeymoon phase. But then what happens is after that, then the shit that happened to you still happened to you. Yeah. So it becomes...

Yeah. Then it's just weird. You can see it, but you can't necessarily unfuck it. Yes. So the anger comes back more so. Oh. But then that's like the work. You kind of got to work your way through it. I have a buddy of mine...

You know, who got sober was talking about that, how he gets sober and like the first day he goes, dude, I felt like I was walking on a cloud, waking up. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then all of a sudden they were out and about. And there was some guy looking at me. So what the fuck are you looking at? And his sponsor was like, oh, and then his sponsor goes, all right, the honeymoon part is over. Here is now here comes the work.

That's right. So that's where I am. That's where he was with his sobriety after the 10 days. Was there an event that tipped it? Tipped what? You into like saying, I got to do the work? Yeah, it was the, because post like the first mushrooms I took, I figured out so much about myself or figured out the main, I guess, issue. Yeah. Which was? I felt for 10 days. Was that the sadness thing?

Yeah. What that was. What was it? It was how I felt growing up. Just constantly terrified. Yeah. Not loved, not feeling like you mattered. Yeah. But I always thought when I was a kid, I was like, oh, I didn't need that. I was tough and I used to laugh at families that were like the other way. Because it wasn't necessarily my family. It was the whole fucking thing. Everybody's family was kind of like that. Yeah.

Um, so anyway, so after like the 10 days, for the 10 days I felt like, oh, this is who I would have been if all of this shit didn't happen to me. And then after 10 days it's like, oh, but it did. And it was like, oh, I could have been like this. Yeah. But now I'm like this. And then it's just like, and then you just start thinking like, you know, at different events, like how the fuck could you do that to a kid? Right. Why would you, you know, whatever. I don't want to get into it, but like. But you saw the parallel universe where you're having a healthy life.

Yeah, not in show business, not needing to get on a stage being, hey, look at me. And I don't know. Yeah. But I don't know where the fuck that goes. But then, yeah, so then I, you know, I will say every time I feel like, you know, okay, I've dug it all out and now we can start building a new house. I find there's another...

or area or whatever. I mean, it's a lot of shit. I mean, it was 50 years. Look, it's bad enough as it is for me. It's worse for the people around me. So that was really the motivation because I love my wife to death. I obviously love my kids to death. And like the one thing I am proud of is my kids are not afraid of me. I've probably overcorrected

But yeah, I come home, they treat me like a fucking bouncy house. They're just jumping all over me and everything. And we have all these games that I play. Most of them just involve me chasing them around the house. How old are they? About to be eight and four and a half. Wow. So, you know, my daughter's to the point now where she reads to me. She reads me Captain Underpants, a chapter of Captain Underpants. And what I love is she loves jokes. Yeah. And how they write that book. The chapter ends...

you know, with a setup and then the name of the next chapter is the punchline. Right. So like the guy would be like going, no, we covered our tracks. There's no way we're going to get busted. Chapter eight, busted. And she just thinks, you know, in her seven year old brain, that's something. And then she, she read it like five times and be like busted. And she'd make like this face when she did it. And she was totally getting into it.

And, you know, my son's like really into music, like loves ACDC and stuff. Oh, yeah. You showed me that video. Oh, yeah. It's the best. Him doing the Chuck Berry via Angus dance. Yeah, he can do the duck walk. It's amazing. The one thing, though, when I was watching the special, you know, I realized like, I mean, you and I are similar, but like...

In a lot of ways, but you went and had a regular life in the way that you got a wife, you got kids. I didn't even pull it together to be able to handle that. And when you talk about that sadness at being at the core of the anger for how you grew up, I mean, I relate to that. But one thing that you seem to have gotten over or at least have...

some range in your life is that like for me and like you say you want to be loved and you know we do this thing in a room full of strangers but like i don't fucking trust love i don't trust it you know if somebody if somebody loves me i'm like you're fucking with me you know i can't i can't let go and it's a fucking nightmare so that's i know where that comes from what's that because my parents were like needy fucking exploitive people

Why? What do you think? No, well, Jesus Christ, I'm on your side. Jesus Christ, Mark. That's it. Let's see. That's where we get touchy. We're like, what? What's your reason? How are you going to hurt me? Exactly. But you know that one. No, you...

You showed me a picture of your mom one time. Oh, yeah. And I was like, wow, she's beautiful. And you just made some sort of comment like, oh, yeah, she made sure she got all dolled up. It's all about her. And I said, oh, my God, child of a narcissist. Yes, two, yeah. Two. Yeah. How does that relationship work? There's usually one person just getting abused. Well, they... Waiting for the storm to be over and it never does until they die. No, no. They're both selfish enough to kind of float in their own zones and then just react to each other and then go back into their own little world. But now, like,

my old man's got dementia and there's a point, like, I remember when we did that comics come home thing, you know, and there's always that moment where your folks were there and you're like, this is my dad. I'm like, that's the guy. Like, I'm thinking that's the guy. And then you realize, like, God, they're just old fucks now. You know, but like how I look at them, I'm like, whatever happened to them was worse than

The same way you don't feel like you're yelling, but you are to somebody else. They felt like, you know, what they were doing was the right thing to do because they improved it from what happened to them. So then I improve it from them. And, you know. Was this empathy always within you, though? Or is this part of the new you? No, it's like it's trying to put shit to bed because what I have realized is

is that when you go back to your childhood, there's your version and your parents' version, and the truth is in the middle. Yeah. Because, you know, what parents don't understand, a lot of them seem to forget, I think, is that how small a kid's universe is. Yeah. So if they're literally going, I don't like this shirt, before they go to school, I go change your shirt. Yeah. Because I don't want you going to school feeling bad about yourself because these other kids will smell that on you, and next thing you know, you're getting bullied. Yeah. And, like...

Fucking when you're five, six years old, liking the shirt you're wearing to school is your universe. As an adult, seeing these fires and insurance and fucking, you know, never-ending wars, that's nothing to you. But you have to remember the value that it is. But...

You know, that information, I know that because it's out there now. So, like, my parents didn't have that information. Their generation didn't have that information. So, that's why when you go back, hey, man, you did this, you did that. Oh, that was no big deal. It's like, to you, to you it wasn't. So, one of the hardest, I think, human emotions probably is empathy. Yeah. So, that's a difficult thing to do. And I think a lot of people...

You know, I've been guilty of it. Like, just don't get there. So you got to be like, you know, that's a big thing with like a relationship is getting out of your fucking ego and not trying to win the thing. Yeah. Trying to actually hear...

you know, what the person you're with is saying and how you ended up getting there and like, and just acknowledge how whatever you're doing makes them feel rather than being like, oh, that's fucking nothing. I got a friend in my way. Well, you know, like when you rage and then like 10 minutes later, everyone's crying, but you're like, I'm okay. What's the matter? We got through it.

Yeah, that wasn't that bad. And then you do the worst thing. You say, that wasn't that bad. And that really comes from the fact that you love them. You don't want to feel like you hurt them. So you're like, you're fine. Come on, come on. It wasn't that bad. Come on, let's get an ice cream. Shake it off. You start doing that great Santini shit. So a lot of this new special and everything is just, you know, if you really watch my specials along, I was, you know, it's not like, this isn't like a sitcom. I didn't get here in like, you know, one mushroom trip. This has been something that is...

You know, I've been working on since I first started doing specials. I never wanted to be a lot of the stuff that I was. I didn't want to be that guy. I just didn't. It's like that was the guy I became and then how I had to be. So shit, you know, wouldn't keep happening to me. Well, I think it's funny because like you're a guy. The thing that, well, don't take this wrong. I mean, you're...

You're saving grace as your struggle with yourself. Right. Do you know what I mean? Like you were always, you knew and I knew and everyone else knew. It's like, well, Bill's, you know, he's a good guy in there and he knows that. He's fighting himself. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. And it's like, that's the whole thing. Like who's going to win the match? Yeah. And the thing is, I think when people watch, that's if there's something relatable about what I do.

You know, like one of my favorite head coaches right now in the NFL is this guy, Nick Soriano, the guy for the Eagles. Yeah. Because I see that guy.

Yeah. Where I'm just like, this guy is really good at what he does. Yeah. And he knows he is, but there's a part of him in that brain is saying, no, you're not. And it's just like, and fighting that fucking thing and having to do that. Yeah. As an NFL fucking coach. Yeah. With all these other cunts who don't know anything about football, questioning everything you're doing. It's a very like standup comedy experience where like getting heckled.

from the crowd or you know people like online I like when they take your jokes and they put them on and they rename them and make you say what they want you to be saying like there's a lot of that oh yeah some guys some people started all kinds of shit with me and Kreischer by you know taking something I said out of context and saying it was about him it wasn't even about him and we had to fucking work that out it's a fucking nightmare yeah

Like, out of all the people in the world, how does anyone start shit with Bert Kreischer? Listen, what do you mean? Fucking he's a comedian. It happens. Everything happens. I wasn't even talking to him. It doesn't matter. Dude, we're all followed our dream and it came true and we're still fucking working shit out. It's funny as hell. How do any of us, we tell jokes for a living. How are any of us upset? Yeah. Because it's not a fix.

Yeah, but I never got, but did you, like, you talk about the arc of your specials. All I ever did with comedy, all I ever wanted to do, and I've said this before, I don't know that I got into it thinking, like, I want to entertain people. I just knew that I could have my own fucking space to say what I wanted to fucking say, and that was, and it was mine. All right. I got into it because I thought it was an easy way to make a bunch of people I didn't know like me so they wouldn't get mad at me and no one would try to hurt me.

Really? Well, it was a combination of that and then being so walled off that I needed like a place somewhere to like a moat. Yeah. But that's taking a risk. That's not necessarily get everyone to like you because when I do it, I guess I want them to like me. But, you know, there's part of me that's sort of like, I don't like me. So go fuck yourself. How can you like me?

Yeah, I don't have that. No, you don't push back. But you like to fuck with them a little bit. You like to test them. No, I like to do that. But I don't get upset if they like me. I want them to like me. No, I want the laughs. I want them to like me, and then I also want them to feel like they got their money's worth. I don't want to be just going up there and dumping my day on them or whatever. Yeah, sometimes if I don't have a show that I think is good, I'll just go really long. And then at least they can't leave saying they didn't try. Yeah.

They're not enjoying me. I go, I know the solution. More of me. Yeah, more of me. Because then they're not going to walk out and say, like, why the fuck didn't he finish? Yeah. I don't know. That doesn't happen that much. That's behind me. Yeah, I don't... You know what I mean? I don't... I did... Here, let me tell you this. I was in... I'm just going to let you go, man. Come on, work this shit out. Go ahead. I was in...

Well, I don't know what hasn't happened in a long time. You know, last night. Well, what happened was I was in Napa and I do this show. I get one woman who's sitting in the middle of the front section at the theater and she really wants to give me a present. She brought something for me. She didn't know she was going to get it to me after. So in the middle of the show, she's like, I love you. I have a gift for you. It's taking time. And I'm like, all right, can we? And she's like, can I just? And like it was good natured. You know,

You know, she had knitted me a cat thing and she bought me a little thing or whatever. Right. But then the rest of the audience is like, hey, come on. I'm like, this is not a this is not a bad situation. This is not a bad. Oh, good. I thought you were going to. No, no. I'm like, you know, we just have you just hang out. You know, I'll get back to the show. Let her do the thing and I'll take the present. Thank you. And then some other woman was up in the balcony. It's like, yeah, like yelling like this. And I'm like, what the fuck is this now? So that's a whole different thing. So I go from like, you know, managing the nice lady.

just being like, are you going to shut the fuck up? Because I can have you taken out. I don't have to deal with this. People want to show. And it keeps happening. And eventually I'm like, what are you a fucking moron? And then it's being handled. Which person? The upper deck person? Yeah, yeah. So that all happens. And then you got to get back to you because you just showed the audience what a fucking monster you are by dealing with the heckler. I think you're being too hard on yourself. No shit. So today...

I get a fucking DM from somebody who was sitting near the woman up top who was drunk, I thought, and yelling. And she says, look, I don't know really what happened, but I was sitting next to these people and it seemed like she was a neurodivergent person who couldn't control it. So now I'm like, this is all sitting on me. I call this- Neurodivergent. You know, spectrum person who was with somebody who was taking care of her, wanted to see the show, but couldn't control her emotions and-

But I don't know what to do with that. I handled it the way I'm supposed to handle it. But now I think I shit on some person that has major emotional problems. No, that's on the person that brought them. I think so. If they have like that issue, you shouldn't bring them to a comedy show. Yeah.

I'm not saying put them in the attic like the Kennedys. No, I know, but I came to the same conclusion. But you just, you can't win, and anybody can communicate with you. You didn't know. The person who brought the person didn't know. The person doing it didn't know. It was just a big misunderstanding. So when you talk about, like, that thing you said on Kimmel last night about how, like, what you're mad about is something much bigger that you think is going to, like...

consume you if you, you know, take it on. Do you feel that, do you know, you know what that is though, right? Mostly? Yeah.

What that thing is? Is it just your family? Well, it's, it's, it's, and it's also the powerlessness, powerless feeling of being a kid if you're not being listened to. Yeah. And that's what ends up happening is if you're not being listened to and shit, bad shit's happening to you and stuff, you just eventually, you, that's kind of how you, you, you stop emoting because no one's listening. And then you also shut down stuff because, you know, stuff, stuff is hurting you. Yeah. So then you just sort of become like, you get the 600 yard stare, the kid version of it.

And that was a lot of my friends. A lot of my friends are like that. And it's kind of funny. It's a neighborhood thing almost. Well, I mean, I go around and I do shows and my whole graduation class, like everybody has really interesting jobs and really cool to see them again. And I...

Run into a lot of them. And there's a couple of people where like, you know, you start having like family envy when you feel yours is a little weird. And then I ended up finding like, wow, it was very similar or it was like, oh, it was a little different or it was worse or whatever. So, but that's one of those things where-

So it's not like fair to my parents or anybody else who was bringing me up or something. It's not like I'm shitting on my parents, but it's just like they were my universe. So like the importance of things. Like when your kid comes up to me like going, you know, hey, dad, you said you were going to play with me and you're staring at your phone. It's like, that's a big deal. And you got to go put it down. Like, fuck, man. Like this is making this person feel like you're not worth my time. That's good. Yeah. You're good. You're catching all this now.

Because, like, I took a different approach in jokes with my parents. Like, I used to do that bit about, like, you know, when your parents say we did the best we could. And they didn't. They didn't know what they were doing, and you don't have to take that shit. You didn't do the best you could. I can accept that. But you didn't even try, really. Yeah, I mean, well, look, each situation is unique.

So, but I've interacted with you enough to know that they didn't try. They left me untethered. I think that that's why you're a cat person.

I grew up with dogs. I got dogs. I've had dogs. I think a dog would be too fucking needy and consuming. Yeah. And like you probably grew up isolated and you vibe with cats where it's kind of like, hey man, sometimes I want to be on top of you. Other times I just want to get the fuck out of here. That's right. Go kill something. We had a lot of dogs. I grew up with a lot of dogs and it's just the same reason I don't have kids.

I don't trust my emotional construct not to be selfish and, you know, and feel that like, hey, more people should do that. Yeah. Like, because a lot of people just have a kid because they think they should be doing it. Yeah. And you really have to want to do it. And you have to love the job. Yeah. And you have to want to help try to form a empathetic adult on the other side is what you're hoping to do.

come out with. But like, you know, um, you know, I, I got, I have, um, you know, I listen to my kids though. Like, like when they're upset, like I, everything stops and I sit down and I listen to them, you know, even if I don't agree with them being like, well, you can't do that. You can't have every toy or whatever they're doing. And then there's other times it's like, all right, you're right. I shouldn't have done that. Like, I remember like when I knew I was changing it,

My daughter was only three. She was so cute. Maybe even less than that. And she came up to me. There was something that was bothering her. And I sat down on the stairs. I said, what's bothering you? And she walked up to me and us spontaneously, not even thinking we both held hands while she talked to me. Yeah. And I was like, that never happened. Yeah.

When I was growing up. That never happened to anybody in my fucking generation. Maybe Italians. Italians are really good with like emotion. I always got along with Italians because I was just like, these people, like as much as they're fucking yelling at each other, I hear love in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where like, you know, my fucking Aryan, Northern European shit is just like- What do you think? It's just Irish Catholic?

Dude, I'm German. I mean, I am a gumbo of shutdown nationalities. Irish, Scottish, English, German, mostly German, French and Dutch. As much as I love French culture and everything, there is, I can't tell because maybe it's just Paris or whatever. It sort of has that Manhattan coldness to it. Yeah, yeah.

career, then kids. Yeah. And no God. Yeah. You know, the Manhattan vibe. Yeah. But it's good that you can identify in that moment when you're holding hands and that you can, you know, be present for the love from her and you. And, you know, it's good as opposed to like... No, I say that. I said, you know, absolutely. You know what I mean? And like, you know, and then you start having more than one. They have like disagreements. You become like Judge Wapner. Yeah. You got to make sure...

That you're not favoring either one of them or anything. Like, uh, I make sure, you know, I do that. Like my son learned, does something. Oh, that's great. And I'll ask my daughter, did you teach him how to do that? That's amazing. Like I just, I make sure. Balance it. Yeah. I make sure I, I, I, I balance it. Yeah. Now, did you start, did you go to therapy? Yeah, I did. Was it helpful? Uh, yeah. I mean, to kind of crack it open or whatever, but like, uh,

I kind of feel like it's almost like doing standup where you can rehearse as much as you want in your room. You have to go out and do it in front of people. So I feel like therapy, you know, you can go there and talk about your fucking problems forever. Yeah. It's like. And just spin them. Like it just becomes a habit. Oh, I got sick of telling the fucking stories. And I was just like, I just need to go live my life. I've learned enough here. Yeah. Definitely served a purpose. But then I needed to go out.

And I think mushrooms was a huge thing. That was like a fast forward button. How many times did you do it? Only like four times. It's the only drug I've ever done that never makes me feel the next day like I want to do that again. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then it becomes like a habit. Was it like a prescribed thing or you just did it? I just did it. By yourself? Nope. I was with my wife and my brother and my sister-in-law.

And we were out in the desert. Ah. Yeah. And then another time I took him, I was with my wife in the middle of Utah. During the day? I took him during the day. That's good. And I took him. And right after I ate, my wife's going like, because she took him with me. And then she's not into him. Yeah. She goes, I don't want to do it. I said, well, I'm doing it. Yeah. She goes, don't do it. I go, I'm doing it. And I just ate a whole bunch of them. Yeah.

And then, dude, I ate them. And 20 minutes later, I got a text. You got to call me. I know you're on vacation. You got to call me. And my, oh, God, dude, my buddy told me Bob Saget died. Oh, my God. And then the fucking mushrooms were coming out. Oh, my. It was fucking wild. Where'd you end up going in your head? I still had a good one. But the weirdest thing was.

was when I would think about Bob, like the room went like gray, like black and white, like a funeral or something. It was fucking wild. Because I took a lot, dude. Yeah. I mean, the ground was going in and out and shit. And I was talking to trees. I mean, I was fucking tripping. Yeah.

Yeah, dude, I thought I saw this guy way up on the hill and he said hello to me. He was way up on this cliff and shit. And I realized like the next day it was my fucking, the neighbor. It was like this vacation thing. He wasn't way up on the hill. He was like right where you were. But my depth perception. So I was just like staring at him. Wow. It was so fucking weird. A lot of the shit. But like, what did I say? Oh, and then that was the thing. And then I asked my wife, I said, can you go outside? I go, is there a little guy on the cliff?

walking, saying hello to people. And she just laughed. She walked out. She goes, there's nobody out there. But the guy had left. So then I fucking went back outside or whatever. And then I started thinking about it. Towards the end of my trip, I came walking and I said, hey, can I ask you a question? I go, this was the sad part of the trip. I said, was that little guy real? And she said, no. I said, okay, good. And I go, well, what about that text message?

about Bob was that real and she was like yeah it wasn't I was like ah fuck because I was kind of hoping for half a second that maybe I dreamt it I don't know why you would dream that but I was hoping that it wasn't the case but that was that one really got me man that was brutal you talk about that in the special too about we're at that weird zone of age it's a very good observation that one it's funny I'll never be over Bob I've made that peace that I won't be

Yeah, I don't think I will, too, because and it's not like I was totally close to him, but we're all weirdly close just by nature of who we are and what we do.

But, like, he was always the best guy in the world. And it was such a shocking fucking thing. You know what I loved about him? He just loved jokes. Yeah. So if you started texting with him, I swear to God, if you wanted to go eight hours, he would just keep going. Doing jokes? Well, he never got sick of it. And then he would always go crazier and darker. Yeah. And I always just thought it was so fascinating. He was such a nice guy. But he could go just so twisted. Yeah, yeah. And dark. Yeah. But it kind of worked because he was, like, just such, like, a nice guy and...

And, you know, and whenever I would do something on TV, if he saw it or whatever, he always took the time to say, you know, great job. And like, and it was like sincere. It wasn't like, oh, hey, you're moving along in the business. This is a guy I need to know. It wasn't. Sweet guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. It's so weird because did anyone ever figure out what happened? I, you know, I don't want to.

speculate or anything but this the stuff that I heard was I think that he hit his head he hit his head and had a bleed and he went to bed he didn't realize how bad it was well you want to know something I don't think it's bad but like I'll tell you man you know we go into all of these different hotels that after Saget died I turn on fucking light on in the bathroom because you know you get up and you don't know where you are for a second

Oh, yeah. What's... Yeah. You know, some of these places got those fucking marble floors and shit. Like, and I'm old. So, like, now, like, anywhere I go, I just got to make sure... Well, the big thing, too, is you're alone. Yeah. And then you hit your head and you have to make a decision. Right. How the hell is he going to know he hit his head? I'm going to lie down for a minute. He doesn't know how bad you hit it. But... That one was like...

That, Patrice, like some of the... Greg Giraldo. I mean, I've lost a lot of people. Yeah, I lost those same people. Fucking awful. Yeah, but you knew what happened with those guys. I know, but it didn't make it any easier. No, it was fucking horrendous. Greg was the... Giraldo was the one that made me believe in addiction. Oh, dude. And I was just like... To see it take a guy... That smart? That smart. And that good? And that sweet guy? And that alive? Yeah. He couldn't fucking stop it. That was... Literally. Because I remember like...

The first time hearing him about him having an issue. Yeah. I thought like, oh, come on, man. What's he having a midlife crisis? Like, I just, I just didn't believe that addiction was strong enough to take a guy. Like that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and like, uh, who the hell, I think Vinnie brand called me when. Oh, he died out there. Right. In Princeton or where new, what is it? New Brunswick. Yeah. That was a fucking brutal one.

Yeah, I mean... I mean, it's bad enough he died, but to have you last set at the Stress Factory... I know. In that hotel. I'm fucking with you, Vinny, if you're listening. No, but I remember... Why'd you have to say that? People are going to take that seriously. He still got the phone on stage? Oh, my God. He got that payphone? Oh, my God. Patrice's life work was fucking trying to get him to get that fucking payphone. People say, Vinny... First, he trashed him, and then he had to try to logically go, like, you are encouraging people to yell...

Up at the stage. Yeah. What it was, was Vinny's a comedian and a club owner and he, you can't write material fast enough every fucking weekend. Yeah. So he needed a gimmick. Right. So he would do that. And it was just, it just, it turned every crowd into like a bachelorette party there for a while. It's fucking worse. But then he stopped doing, when he stopped doing it, it became this, this great club. And he used to run those like car crash videos. Yeah.

Like, do you remember, like, before the show, the videos? It was just like, I don't even remember, but I just remember it was like crazy. The thing I was going to say is I had talked to Geraldo because I told him, I said, you know, when I got divorced from Mishnah, she'd gotten me sober, right?

And I was sort of, you know, I told him I was framing it like. And she was just like, what did I do? Well, no, I told him, like, the divorce cost me a fuck of a lot of money, you know. She earned it. Yeah. That's true. That's true. I have peace with that. You should. She's a sweetheart. I was able to see my side of that. Because you get stubborn, you get competitive, you're like, it's this and that. But I realized, like, years later, like, you know.

It's okay, the money and whatever. But I told Geraldo how much it cost versus the fact that she got me sober. I said, I have to look at it like this is the price of my sobriety because you got off easy. I've been through six fucking rehabs. That guy tried hundreds of thousands of dollars in rehabs and whatever, and he just couldn't get a handle on it. You know, I don't know if part of it was like he was a social guy too. Like he really liked –

You know. Hanging out with losers, doing drugs? No. Not that. You're talking about the end. That's where it ends. Yeah. And if you get lucky, you know. No, I just feel like, you know, I toured with him a few, a couple of those, you know, Just for Laughs thing. Yeah. Him, Tom Papa, and just the hangs were fucking. Yeah, it's great. Amazing. And, you know, he was clean when I was touring with him. But he was saying, he goes, don't you want to go up to that bar, you know? Yeah. Have fucking drinks and talk to some chicks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like.

He just was a fun, fun guy. And we were kind of going through this business the same way where it was like, you know, we like, it was, it was a period of time. Any place I went on the road, he is either just there or was on his way to be in there. Yeah. And we would always get the same feedback, like, you know, one of the quad cities or something, wherever the hell we were getting booked back then. And,

you know, Duluth or some shit and they would just be like, dude, you're like one of the funniest comics that's come through here in years and like, we would laugh about that going like, you know, if somehow these regular people were the industry, we would have something going on in our careers. So we used to joke that, you know, we used to call it killing and obscurity. Yeah. So you'd be going out there and it was, you know, and you keep coming back to these clubs and the same fucking 30, 40 people were showing up

And then also the whole alt scene exploded in the 2000s. And I was sitting there as a club comic. Like there was a part of me going like, am I playing disco? Like what the fuck is music changed? And I'm out here like, you know what I mean? And there at some coffee shop. Yeah. So I was going like, yeah, I still remember where I was, where I had that one time I ever had that thought, which was the scariest thought ever. I'm like, wait, am I the guy who doesn't make it? Yeah. We're out. What I do is old timey. Yeah. Where was it?

It was at the Funny Bone in St. Louis, Westport or whatever they called it. Funny Bone in Westport or whatever. It was like one of my favorite gigs because the staff at the Funny Bone was fun. Yeah. And I was still drinking. It wasn't out of control then. So I would go out and have some pops or whatever. But I used to just mainly talk about sports and shit. So I would be asking them, you know...

you know, Ozzie Smith, did you see him at the old Bush Stadium and shit like that? Actually, one time with the staff, I went to the old, the old, the first one they had that the St. Louis Cardinals football team played in. And to me, like when I went on the road, like those places were like cathedrals. I used to see it every week. Mel Allen on this week in baseball. And like Ozzie Smith would come out doing the backflip. Yeah. And,

And, or, you know, the Kingdome with Ken Griffey Jr. later. You know, all of that stuff, like, was iconic to me. So I got to go to a lot of those old stadiums and old ballparks. They're all gone now. County Stadium, Bush Stadium. Gone. The Kingdome. Yeah, they, all these owners fucking, you know, for some reason the cities had to, like, they're all billionaires, but for some reason...

And we're buying all their merch and shit and rooting for the teams and buying the booze and all of that. But we also have to pay for the stadiums. It's kind of a great gig. Yeah. That's why I like Bob Kraft. Like he paid for the Patriots stadium. Yeah. So you had the realization that alternative comedy might take over when you were in St. Louis? Yeah.

No, I felt like what I was doing was still vibrant in St. Louis, but where it air quote mattered in New York and LA. Oh, dude, do you remember the height of that alt shit? I think I was in it. Well, all of a sudden, no, you were the guys who kind of started, the first comics that started, that's what always killed me. We were club guys. You were club guys that created the alt thing because it got stale, which it did.

And then, but then it created this scene where you could start in the alt room rather than doing all those hell gigs that we did to season yourself to, you know, to understand that. You could literally start your career doing a 20 minute bit about the fucking, you know, Transformers. And now you just have to post a reel. That whole sort of like come up, open, middle, close thing, done. It's over. Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, it's just everything is just different. And what they were saying when we were coming up, like I used to have to go on in between a stripper and a guy playing a ukulele. We had clubs. So shit is always...

changing you know what I mean like I love I love how old people are oh man you missed it you missed it it's like they're not missing anything they're gonna look back in the 2020s and say and tell people in the 2040s that they missed it because you're young don't you remember that's what it is in Boston after the happy hours closed down and all those guitar acts came in and you'd have to you know feature for a guitar act and they were the big headliner and it was sort of like what am I doing but how bad did your drinking get

It definitely got to the point where I wanted to not be doing it and I was still doing it. What it was for me was... The tipping point for me was I brought it into the house. And then once I had it in the house and I could have it every night... Yeah, then you saw it. Then... Well, then it was a lot... That's how my cigar smoking... As long as I don't have cigars in the house, like, I don't have...

They always end up at the store with me grabbing them out of the box. Yeah. Well, I don't have that now where I don't have that one. Like I'm somewhere on the spectrum of addiction, but I don't have that thing of like if it's not in the house, I'm so Jones and like I'll go out on my fucking boxers and just go get it. I never had that. My shit is like if it's not in the house, I won't. If it's in the house, I consume it. So I just have to be aware of that.

What I have in like my day to day because... The cigars turned on me. I don't like them anymore. Oh, yeah? I don't know what happened. Well, I'm doing these zins. I'm getting nicotine. But at some point I smoked a cigar and I'm like, it just didn't taste good anymore. And it was kind of good for that to happen. Yeah.

But, you know, it'll come back. You're probably also, like, smoking a lot of them. And then, yeah, you sort of get, you get numb to it. Yeah. And you're expecting that same thing, that great thing. And then by the third one, it's not so good. Oh, my God. Dude, chain smoking cigars is not, no, I never did that. Like, I would have, like. Two a day, come on. No, I was always a one a day guy. But then, but there were times, like, if I was hanging with friends. Like, if I'm, you know, out on the golf course, I don't golf regularly.

There's nothing for me to do out there. I'm a redhead. It's sunny. You don't golf? I fucking hate golf. But you go hang out? I go play. Well, it's funny. I bring my little Bose thing. Yeah. And the album I always play is Paul Anka's one where he did this fucking incredible album. Oh, the covers? Yeah.

of, of yeah. Like Nirvana and stuff. Yes. Great. Yeah. It's fucking incredible. And the arrangements, like he could have so just gone like captain Kirk and just been like all cheeky or whatever. Yeah. He didn't, he honored him. He respected the music and the arrangements are incredible. Yeah. So it's like everybody, you know, you want to play like Sinatra. This is like the, the, the happy medium where it's just like, all right, it's our generation's music, but it's that, that old, you know,

Paul Anka, Sinatra, Tony Bennett, Klass. It's kind of a great record. Yeah. I know that record. It's so funny that you're using, like I used to do this, I was working on this bit about that every male is on the spectrum of male toxic. Everyone, there's a toxic spectrum of men.

And it kind of goes from like insensitive to murder. Right. I actually, there's guys I see that aren't on it. There's definitely like one of my buddies that I hang out with. I always say that to him. I'm like, dude, like you're like what I'm trying to work towards. You're like, dude, he's just like this chill fucking cool guy. You know, like anybody, he has his problems or anything. But like, I just noticed like when people meet him,

Like they're really drawn to him. Yeah. Like he's just this open guy where like, you know, for the longest time in my life, people would meet me and they were just like, oh yeah. Hey, what do you attribute it to? Have you talked to him about it? Um, I haven't analyzed it too much. I just like his growing up thing. Yeah. I mean, however, like, well, there's probably your DNA or whatever, or how you came, whatever you came from. But like, um,

Maybe he processed his pain in a different way. Or maybe his parents were just loving people that gave him the space to grow up with love. Yeah, it could be that. That's fucking crazy. I don't know. But I don't want to know if that's true or not because if I find out that it isn't true, that that's actually a myth, then all my work is just out the window. For naught. Yeah, it's all just a theory. I was telling a story that you were in on stage about that night at a fucking...

that comics come home thing that we did. You know, I was so like, you know, he put me on that thing and I was like, great, you know, it's full circle.

You know, I'm going to come back. I'm a pro. You know, I remember like doing one of my first guest spots at Nick after Leary and just dying. And I'm like, now I've got it all together. You know, I'm seeing everyone who's on there and he's reading the list of the order. Uh-huh. And he's going through everybody. And I'm like, what the fuck is happening? And he goes, all right, then Robert Kelly, then Marin, then Byrne. I'm like, God damn it.

How the fuck? Now I got to go fight? I got to go fucking... I'm drowning upon the intro? But you know what's funny? I did fine. Exactly. Everybody who gets that spot. Yeah, but here's what I remember. Dude, I saw Bobby did it this year. Bobby Kelly had to go on last. And he's like, dude, what the fuck? And he's just going, I got to follow all you fucking guys. And I'm looking at him like, dude, you think it's fun following you? It's not. Yeah, it's not. So...

And then what happens? What happens? He kills. He went on after me and it was within two seconds. It's like I didn't even go on stage. He fucking murdered. Bobby Lee's like that. It's like, Bobby, nobody wants to go after you. You fucking kill. You kill. Well, that was the funny thing is I'm back. Once I figured out that I was told the order, I was like, God damn it. And I'm between you and him. And I walked up to you. I said, why don't you go after Kelly? And you go, I don't want to go after Kelly. I can kill him.

Oh, dude, I loved watching you twist in the wind. And then what was funny is you got off stage. I go, you opened with the proctology bit. And you're like, I had to. I was going after Bobby. I go, yeah, but you had the bit. You had the bit. You weren't winging it, dude. The colonoscopy bit? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it was. Yeah, look, dude, we all had our... No, I didn't. I went up one year.

I went up one year, one comment. It was the first time Trump got elected, and this person went up on stage and so trashed Trump. Half the crowd was booing. And then the next guy went up. Oh, is that Wanda? Wanda's here? Wanda, Nick, Tupalo, and then me. Oh, wow. Dude, it was fucking amazing. Yeah. It was one of my favorite nights of comedy. Wanda went up there like fucking fight. She went off on everybody like they all voted for Trump. It was fantastic. This is a comedian. Yeah. To watch somebody do that in an arena and not give a fuck. Yeah. So half the crowd's booing. She's like, ah, fuck you, you motherfuckers. Right? I was just like...

You know, I already love Wanda. I think I love her more. And then Nick goes up there and just goes the other way. Oh my God, dude. Oh my God. Took it to another level of fuck this crowd. And I remember Cam Neely comes down and he's going, he's going, what the fuck is going on? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I go up there and I got to save the day. And what did I do? I went up there with a chunk of airplane material that I already had. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The most hackiest shit ever. Yeah. That's what I did. I opened it. I said, hey, how are you guys doing? You guys want to talk politics? And they all laughed. And then I just did this airplane thing.

It was so funny. I get off stage after doing like the hackiest shit ever to bring everybody back. And they're all looking at me like, oh my God, that was amazing. I go, that was amazing. That was like my evening at the improv set from fucking 88 before I even did comedy. I will say though, I went up there and I started pretty strong. I knew you were going to be fine because this is the thing, because he's only going to do 10, whoever you're worried about is only going to do 10, 12 minutes. Yeah, Bob did. He did like 15, 20.

But you remember that Pete Davis... But it was funny this year to watch Bob freaking out. He was going like, dude, what the fuck? I got to fucking go on after all you fucking heavy hitters and I'm just sitting there

I wish I said to him, I was like, Bob, do you understand every year someone's freaking out, they have to follow you? Yeah. You do understand. He doesn't. That you level this fucking place. You do understand that, right? The opening joke I did, though, is because Pete Davidson went up and it was weird. It was a little weird. It was all about trying to get his mother fucked.

Remember he said just trying to, his mom had had sex since his dad died on 9-11. So he's been trying to have, you know, get his mother to date and have sex. And then he did. That sounds like a good premise to me. Yeah, it was good. And then he does this joke. He ends sort of like, I might have to do it. It was funny. It was a little weird and dark, but he did fine. But he talked about it for the entire time. And I went, I went.

I went on and I said, you know, I like doing these things, hanging out with the comics. And it's not definite or anything, but I think I'm going to fuck Pete Davidson's mom. Oh, that's fantastic. It worked. It fucking got me in. No, but then also, but the crowd loves that. Yeah, they love it. Because then they can see the, you know. Camaraderie. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. But I do find there are some guys, the guys who kill the hardest sometimes are,

Oh, because Bobby fucking levels. He's just hard on himself because he doesn't think he writes enough. Like he knows he can kill, but he knows he's going to do that same 15 minutes. And I think that's what drives him nuts.

It's like, I think maybe in his... He's got all kinds of material. But he's pretty hard on himself about it, about generating material. And I think his mindset is like, you know, like he knows he can kill, but he knows he's just killing with, you know, these certain bits. Like, I don't think he really thinks that he's going to bomb. Well, I think everybody has, I'm in an arena set.

Yeah, I don't have one in the chamber. I don't do them enough. But yeah, you got to slow things down. Listen, I saw the freak out. Yeah, yeah. Where was that? Oh, at the thing? Yeah. Dude, I enjoyed doing my set and watching you freak out that night.

And the harder Bobby was killing, the harder I was laughing. Because of me. You just kept walking out. Just like, dude, the look on your face. It was like, what was that when the first time the stock market crashed? Was it Black Friday? Yeah. Yeah, you looked like the guy that was going to jump off the fucking window. And I was secretly rooting for Bobby to kill even harder. Yeah. Well, thanks, buddy. It's nice. Well, what else would we be doing? Do you know one of my favorite childish comedic moments? What? Comedy moments? What?

We were doing the improv when it was at Harris. Yeah. And we were sitting in there and the guy that was opening had some sort of prop and we were teasing him about it. And he came running in. Yeah. And they were doing like his intro. Yeah. Remember that stupid da, da, da, da, da, da. Y'all ready for this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he comes running back with this panic look looking for his, because it was like his opening joke.

And he's like, where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Neither one of us moved. We just sat there and then he found it. And as he found it, I reached over with two fingers and I closed the door. And me and the other guy, he goes, you fucking assholes. He rips open the door and he comes. He came running out. We were actually listening to him out of breath doing his first joke. Hey, thanks for coming down to the improv. Dude, it was the hardest. We laughed at his jokes all that fucking week. But like, that's the shit that I like. So I love that, you know, you go, I'm going to fuck Pete's mama or...

Save it. Yeah, yeah, you know, whatever. So what's going on with this? One of the questions about the psychological stuff is that like when you, and I'm just asking because I'm trying to. Because you're fucked up too, yes. Yeah. You know, when you make the decision to not react or not fight or take the hit, don't you just feel it in your chest? Like, you know, like, ugh.

You know, there's a decision and then you got to ride out that kind of like. I'll tell you the one that I am not able, I don't even know how to attack the problem. I have no clue how to do it is like that Google map thing that happened to me on the way over. Oh. Where it's like I try it, I try it and I do it. I go from like fucking calm seas to tsunami. Yeah. And I always, but now I just immediately say after like, dude, you didn't have to do that. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Stop being crazy. You don't thank God nobody else was in the fucking car. Right. Like, what is wrong with you? So that's, and that's as far as the solution has gone to. Now I still do it and then I just say, I beat myself up. What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stop doing that. I don't need to react to these things. I say that out loud. And then,

And then the next thing happens and it's literally like that moment and that realization never happened. So, but I've also know through, you know, trying to figure myself out that like, uh, this is, this is why most people don't figure themselves out because you got to push through this,

part that's difficult yes because it's easy because you know once those grooves get worn in and your brain it's just just automatic pilot something's bad I'm gonna rip a drawer out I'm gonna fucking scream or throw my fucking phone against the wall yeah and then apologize afterward that's how this this is the move it's a play but you it's good you've got it down to just mostly like freaking out when you're alone

No, I still freak out. I got an acting gig coming up. I'm trying to memorize the lines in this one section. How's that going? Well, we haven't started yet. So I'm trying to get off book before I get there. And I keep fucking up this same part. So I'm with my wife last night and she's reading me the lines. All the kids are in bed. And then I fucked up this. And I was like, it's coming. It's coming. But then I tripped up on a word. So she goes, oh, you got to do this. I'm like, all right. So then I go back. And then I forgot everything.

And then she said the line that I forgot like 50 times in a row. And I just went like seven times on the fucking arm of the chair. Yeah. Yeah. And then my daughter came into the room. I said, what happened? I said, oh, sorry. I go, I was banging on the chair. And what's so funny is she just looks at me because she's always going like, dad, it's not that big a deal. Yeah. I go, sorry, I lost my temper. Yeah. And she goes, all right. I go, I still love you. You know, daddy has issues. And then she just looks down.

at my wife and kind of laughs and then leaves. But like, so as much as, you know, uh, I fucked up in that moment. I, I, the, the saving thing that I'm trying to do is I, I address that, you know, what I just did had nothing to do with you. Right. I'm fucked up. I'm sorry that was wrong or whatever. So, uh, yeah, I didn't mean to scare you. That kind of stuff. Yeah. So my daughter actually, she kind of like looks at me in like a funny way. Like she kind of knows that I have like,

but she does say funny things. She said the other day, like she was with one of her friends yesterday

And her friend had brought her little sister along who was only like five, six years old. And they saw an ambulance go by with the lights on and go through a red light. Yeah. And the little girl was like, can they do that? Can they go through the light? And she goes, yeah. She goes, they're allowed to do that. When they have the lights on, they can go through the red light. And then she goes, and sometimes my dad does too. Yeah.

And so that's a big deal to memorize the whole play. Because when you're shooting movies or TV, you can go scene for scene. It's a big deal, right? Getting that all in your head. Yeah, but I also find like it's... I just think it's going to be fun. Yeah. And I met with some of the actors and we were already like... Who was it? You and Bob and Kieran and who else? Is it Count of Olly or no? No. Michael McKeon. Oh. So it's those...

four people I think Bobby Carnavali did it he's done it before yeah I definitely talked to him he's been helping me through it and but like you know we were hanging out and we've just just the the bust and chops that was already happening it was really good natured and funny like like Michael I'm so happy to be working with you I mean Bob I don't want to work with Bobby just like that level of shit you know just fucking around

Um, it just seems like it's, it's going to be, I just think it's going to be a lot of fun. So when does it, so you haven't even started rehearsals yet? Yeah, we start rehearsals beginning of February and then mid-March it starts going. And so you're locked into New York for like, what, a month of rehearsals and then you go? Yeah, something like that, six weeks or whatever. So I, I just figured like, you know, everybody's getting off. It's kind of cool to like the, uh, the Better Call Saul, um,

Breaking Bad sort of connection that we all have. And like someone was saying that they had talked to Brian, asked for advice, and he said, you know, be off book. Be off book so all of your rehearsal time is working on the character. So if Brian says something, you do it. Right, for sure. Because that fucking guy is unbelievable. He is. He's great. I just watched the whole series again. It's so funny. When you were on the plane the other day, and I didn't even know you were sitting behind me,

That was so funny. And then you stood up and I was like, yeah, that's like Mark Maron. Oh shit, Mark. And I was just, I was just rewatched Breaking Bad. So literally I'm watching you on TV and then I get up and I go, oh shit, there he is. So now I got to go back in the house and find that fucking thing. You have beautiful woodwork in this house. Thank you so much. It's a little easier on your drawers. All right, Bill. Good seeing you, man. All right, buddy. I'll see you. There you go.

Again, tickets are on sale now for Gwen Green, Glenn Ross on Broadway and also Bill's special Drop Dead Years premieres on Hulu on March 14th. Hang out for a second, folks.

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Hey folks, long time listeners probably know Dan Pashman. He used to work with me at Air America Radio and we've had him on over the years when he became the host of his own podcast, The Sporkful. Last week, The Sporkful turned 15 years old and Dan was on The Friday Show with Brendan and Chris, which is available now for full Marin listeners. You know, back in 2010, it was the stone ages of podcasting and

Mark was our first celebrity guest, and so I emailed the people at Apple Podcasts, back then it was iTunes, to see if they would feature Mark's appearance on The Sporkful in their big promotional carousel. Now, today here in 2025...

There are whole teams of marketing and PR people who are lobbying Apple to get features in this carousel. It is prime real estate. You cannot buy it. It's only up to the editorial discretion of what is actually a group of people at Apple. But back in 2010, you literally just emailed a guy named Steve. Steve Jobs? Not that Steve. Steve Wilson. Oh, okay.

But and you were like, hey, Steve, I'm this guy, Dan. I have a podcast called The Sporkful. Mark Maron, famous podcaster, is going to be on my show in a couple of weeks. And he'd be like, oh, cool. Yeah, sure. Just here's the specs. Send me the art. And that was it. You know, that was how we got featured in Apple in 2010 was I literally just emailed Steve and he said, OK. Yeah.

To hear the full episode with Dan Pashman and get bonus episodes twice a week, sign up for the full Marin. Go to the link in the episode description or go to WTFpod.com and click on WTF Plus. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. Here's a bit of guitar work from the vault. ♪

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Boomer Live! Bunky and LaFonda Cat Angels Everywhere

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