Episode 1612 - Erin Brockovich
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Download the Redfin app to get started. Yeah, do that. All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it. What's happening? You all right? Are you keeping it together? Did you get that shit done? Oh, that's a universal question. Did you get that shit done? I don't know. It's just there's...

So much to do. All seemingly just as important as the other thing, but most of it just bullshit. Tomorrow, if you're in Los Angeles, I'll be at Largo here in Los Angeles tomorrow night, Largo at the Coronet. Today on the show, I'm going to talk to Aaron Brockovich,

I guess most of you remember her name or know her by the movie that's based on her, where she was played by Julia Roberts. Her legal work and her advocacy has centered around environmental issues. And her most recent book is called Superman's Not Coming, about the country's water crisis and why it's up to citizens to find solutions since institutions are failing us.

Her home is near the Palisades fire and she was evacuated during the week. It was raging. That was the same week I evacuated my house. Look, she just seemed like a great person to talk to as we're in the middle of yet another environmental crisis with no easy answers. And yeah, I'd been in contact with her on Twitter years ago. Interesting person. I mean, advocacy, consumer advocacy, environmental advocacy. It's an important role.

I talked about this a little bit before in the, I guess, last week that thank fucking God. If you believe in God or just be grateful that there are people that still are civic minded, want to help people, want to bring up, you know, these truths and realities and events that are, you know, should be stopped and,

or should be reckoned with pollutants, climate change stuff that we, we need to, to kind of come together on, but everybody's sort of isolated in their own little cocoon of their phone or whatever. And it just, I'm just, I'm very grateful for people that, that, that dedicate their life to speaking up to calling shit out and,

You know, I mean, we live in a time where this idea of speaking truth to power, that's all well and good if you've got the courage or the wherewithal or even the facts to do it with. But now we're entering this time where

Power is speaking to truth. It's yelling at truth. And if power yells loudly enough at truth for a long enough time, truth kind of buckles and, you know, recedes and hides until it finds a gap through it, until it finds a way through. And it's people like Aaron Brockovich that do this kind of work.

Because power really doesn't want truth to be speaking to it. I mean, I guess that's the whole idea. I don't even know where that speaking truth to power came from. But now, like in comedy, Jesus, man, you know, we're back in it.

You know, I remember this from the first Trump term. You know, these weeks and months, the beginning of the administration, you know, you're up on stage and you're taking it on if that's where you're coming from and you're making it funny. But these people, and I'll call them these people, are very sore winners. They vote the guy in and they're like, well, good. Now everybody can shut the fuck up. You know, there's a lot of loud power to truth people and they're...

They're still upset. They're still upset because it's so taxing for them to indulge or, or listen to or entertain or have any patience with anybody that thinks differently than them other than shut the fuck up or other than like, I don't have to deal with you anymore. That's where we're at now. You make me uncomfortable and I don't like it. And I resent you for it. And I disdain you for it. And it's just like, it's exhausting. Yeah.

You're just doing I'm just doing jokes. And some, you know, a couple of drunky, Trumpy people in the back at the store the other night just couldn't couldn't fathom that somebody was was talking about their leader in a in a derisive way. And, you know, you get that sort of like, I thought you were supposed to be funny.

And it's like, you know, I can just tell by your tone that your approval is not that important to me. And, you know, funny, it's pretty subjective. And the way this show is structured here at this club, you know, you just kind of wait it out. You can't keep your mouth shut for 15 minutes until I get done. And now I have to engage with you. And I said, this is funny. There's a lot of people in here that were laughing, right?

And she said, well, you were talking about freedom of speech, so I'm speaking up. And I'm like, yeah, but there's no freedom of speech here in this club where I'm the guy with the mic and the act on stage. I'm talking, and that's the context of the situation we're in. I'm telling you, man.

They had to take her out and she was yelling. It's like, I ain't no one's gonna get me. What are you talking about politics? And it's just like, God damn. It's just an upward slog when you're working at these rooms where you're performing for everyone. And I get it. You know, I understand you're upset because you won and someone's, you know, fucking with your buzz. And look, you know, I try to be as diplomatic as possible, but it, you know,

When the trend is for power to yell at truth or to tell truth to shut the fuck up, it becomes kind of a different job. This weekend, I'll be in Santa Barbara, California at the Libero Theater on Thursday, January 30th. San Luis Obispo, California at the Fremont Center on Friday, January 31st. Monterey, California at the Golden State Theater, Saturday, February 1st. Iowa City at the Englert on Thursday, February 13th.

Des Moines, Iowa at Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland on Saturday, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina at the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20th. Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21st. Louisville, Kentucky at the Baumhardt. Always love that one. The challenge is there for you. Baumhardt.

which I hope I don't, theater on Saturday, February 21st, Lexington, Kentucky, at the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd. March and April, I'll be coming to Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan. I have some new dates to announce this week, so check out my social pages and go to wtfpod.com slash tour for all of my dates and links to tickets. I'm very hung up on the idea of dehumanization.

through language and through tone. And I think there's something about the isolation we all live in, even among people, because of our devices and how we take in information, that it trivializes the human component. I think that conspiracy thinking that, you know, as opposed to just dealing with the humanity of a situation, once you start speculating about the reason it happened or the intentions, no matter how far-fetched, what you're erasing is the humanity of the situation. Right.

And I look, I know this isn't funny, but it's just some some part of my brain is working on that. And I keep thinking about those the Lenny Bruce pieces where he started doing all the slang for all the different types of people, for black people, for Jewish people, for Italians or whatever. And you start doing this idea about what language means and what words mean and that they're just words. And I get that. And I think that's that's true, right?

But words through repetition that diminish the humanity of people or groups of people, you're taking away the idea or the reality that these are all separate, different people with different lives, different aspirations, different journeys to where they've gotten. They might be good people. They might be bad people. But whatever the case, they're individual human beings that are being lumped together under a label of

specifically to dehumanize them with language so it's easier to not see them as people who are vulnerable. And I don't know, that comes into play. All the things that we deal with in our life and how we get information and how repetition of certain labels and derisive and dismissive and hostile categorizations

really enable people to not engage empathy. And empathy, you have to work it. It's a muscle you have to work. I don't think it happens naturally. I think in moments of crisis that people usually show up for each other because it's in those moments seeing real suffering or tragic moments like, you know, fires or war or whatever that people show up for people because they can see their own humanity and the humanity of others.

But that's not a day-to-day occurrence. And the tone of commentary and culture and political speak is now operating at such an amped up level. Look, I used to do radio. And I was thinking about this too, because when I did radio, I have to get into the mode of talking with a certain intensity without stopping. It's a focus thing.

That relies on a specific energy to drive it. And I think people are so amped up with their anger, their grievance, or their actual contempt or hate that the risk of taking a breather or being forced to take a breather because somebody is saying something contrary to what you believe, it's a frightening thing that they don't want to deal with.

I think there's this condition where people have successfully disconnected themselves from their humanity for ideological reasons. And those ideological reasons happen at a very high kind of intensity and that they don't want it to slow down because the risk there, not unlike a narcissist actually seeing himself, the risk there is that you'll be confronted with your own humanity. Right.

And I guess I think we need more of that.

And we're going to need more of it going forward. Today's episode is sponsored by Squarespace, the best way to create a beautiful website. And now there are even more Squarespace features that will help you build your online presence. You get design intelligence from Squarespace, which combines all the platform tools that make Squarespace great with cutting edge AI technology to unlock your strongest creative potential. Anyone can build a beautiful, more personalized website tailored to their unique needs.

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Use offer code WTF to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com slash WTF. Offer code WTF. So we're still talking about the fires. We just got rain here for a couple of days. Oh, my God. Thank God, if you believe in God.

I mean, such a relief. And there's no breathing space between, you know, fire and rain that, you know, the rains were coming on the on the this after these monumentally horrible fires. And right away, it's like mudslides. Look out for mudslide. It's just just let's let's just get wet. Can we just get wet? Please make everything wet.

So Erin Brockovich is a consumer advocate, environmental advocate, and she fights the good fight, and that is her life. Her newsletter is called The Brockovich Report, which you can subscribe to on Substack. January 8th edition is titled An Unsettling Start to the New Year, which includes a lot of info about the fires. And it was a pleasure to talk to her and to be inspired in a way, because we all get into our own lives sometimes.

And our own lives are important. And we just hope the outside world doesn't crush us. And it's hard to know how you can help. And this conversation with Aaron was helpful to me. Maybe it will be to you. This is me talking to Aaron Brockovich.

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You've got allergies? Is that what's going on? Oh yeah. So you know, just the winds, everything in the air. Yeah. And I have tons of allergies. I have my whole life. Really? That's just who I am. Really? Yeah. And you just live with them?

Oh, absolutely. You know, I know what not to eat. But when you get situations like this, everybody realizes. It's horrible. The stuffy nose, the lungs. I know. My lungs are all fucked up. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I started the MedRoll Dose Pack. Yeah. Keep it clear. Is it helping? Yeah. It just makes my face look like I've...

It's got a sunburn. Like you're a little wind-worn. Or my eyes' pupils are real big. Everyone's like, are you okay? I'm like, oh, yeah. Are you high? I'm well-prepared. So did you, were you affected directly by the fires? No. Well, we always can be. I live out in Agora Hills. Yeah. So I was evacuated, gone, the Woosley fires. So this whole area, you know, we're a fire place.

Yeah, I know. We... So, Bell Canyon caught fire. They were calling it the Kenneth Fire. Yeah, oh yeah. And we got a mandatory evacuation for 10 million, which ended up being a... For how many? 10 million. People? Uh-huh. It's like... And...

They sent the mandatory evacuation notice by mistake. Oh, yeah. I saw that one. That was us. Yeah. Okay. How much panic was there? Was there a flurry of... So I live in Agour Hills and Camarillo is...

19 miles from me. Yeah. Took me three hours to get there. Oh, my God. So you left on that emergency evac to find out that it wasn't... Correct. And were you ready? Did you have all your stuff? Do you have dogs? Oh, I'm ready. So I'm all about my PIRP, which is plan, implement realism, and be prepared. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's what we've all missed here in the fires. Not all of us. You know, I have very specific concerns and opinions about it, but...

This shouldn't have happened. We should have been way more prepared. Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, I've read some of the stuff and like this sort of I mean, the life of somebody who has chosen to do consumer advocacy in a in a world of malignant capitalism. It just feels like a tall order. But I mean, going back to your original, you know, impetus for doing this.

Which was the thing that they made the movie about and everything else. But were you like that before? Or was that some sort of brain-changing, white-light moment that that was going to be your life?

So I was like that before. I'm a dyslexic. Yeah. So very early on in my life, I saw things differently. I felt things differently. I learned differently. And I was always categorized as special needs. Right. I had a mom and dad that were extremely helpful to me that taught me so many things. Where was this? Where'd you grow up? Lawrence, Kansas. Oh, okay. And your folks? Rock Chalk Jayhawk OKU.

Yeah, what'd your folks do? So my mom is a journalist and sociology major and was editor-in-chief of the KU Alumni Association. And then my father is a mechanical engineer and built and ran the pipelines for Citigroup. Okay, so these were like educated, self-aware, smart people. Right, and their frustration was my dyslexia, which was my frustration, was school.

Yeah. Like how bad was it? Like what were your major problems? Reading? Yeah. Well, it's how I put things backwards, which is interesting. So I kind of flip things around. Yeah. Which at the time in a conformed learning environment wasn't acceptable. So you start at the end?

Yeah. Well, interestingly enough, that's how I figure out my cases. You have to go back to source to find how it happened. Right. And then you can get answers. It was helpful. Like, this is the disaster. I didn't realize that until I stood in Hinkley, California, and I let these instincts come into me. I could feel them. I could see them. The absence of wildlife. Yeah.

A green water, two-headed frogs. I didn't need anyone to tell me, this is a fucked up situation. And that was the first big case, right? Correct. And so you were just, you got the paperwork as a paralegal and you went out and just saw what was... Yeah. And I couldn't help myself because my entire upbringing is about, and my father taught me, your greatest gifts are your land, air, water, and family, and health. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that it would be my...

responsibility to be a good steward to the land and to the water. And when I saw what was happening in Hinkley and I had my dyslexia on board, which I thought would be the downfall of my life, it was my superpower. So was that like a biblical thing? Your parents were just sort of aware, like the stewardship of the planet thing. Did you grow up religious? Actually, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

My, I think from both of my parents, especially from my father's perspective as an engineer, he saw the things out there, but just the land, there wasn't any real religion. For me, it was the land. It was the water. It was my environment. Yeah.

And if I'd listened to it and observe it and see it and connect with it, it was actually telling and teaching me everything I needed to know. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, that's you would think that most people would be like that, but it seems like we're so far removed from it.

We are. So, you know, I have, I don't know if they had told you, I've been fascinated. First of all, I was born and raised in Kansas, so I love Wizard of Oz. Sure. But I've been truly fascinated with L. Frank Baum and why he wrote the book. Okay. The Wizard of Oz. Yeah. There is a unbelievable, very well studied political allegory to the Wizard of Oz and its meaning. And I

It's mind blowing. So it starts, you know, Dorothy's a representation in his book. So he wrote his original book, The Wizard of Oz, as a way to teach his children the power of individualism and thinking for oneself in a world that would increasingly begin to speak for you.

Right there, you had my attention. Yeah. Oh, I get that. Yeah. But the elements, and you can go to Google and read all of these political allegories. They're all the same and very well studied. Dorothy represents the girl next door. Yeah.

Yeah. All of us want to be that girl next door and have our life and our journey. Yeah. And we know in the film, she grew up in Kansas and she ran away from home. You know, we're always like, I want to run away from my parents. Yeah. And as she was running away, you see, she met kind of like the snake oil guy. Yeah. Who ended up in the end being the wizard. Yeah. Yeah. And there was a tornado. The tornado was a representation of disruption. Yeah.

In Washington, D.C. So she goes home, gets hit in the head, and lands in Oz. Yeah. She lands on the Munchkins, who are representation...

Of the masked citizens. And they thought Dorothy was there to rescue them. So they told her to follow the yellow brick road. Right, yeah. The yellow brick road is the gold standard. Yeah. Follow the path of money. Oh, wow. Yeah. So back in the day, they were pushing between silver and gold as being the standard. Sure. So follow the gold path standard of money. So off Dorothy goes. She meets the scarecrow. Who?

Who's a representation of the American farmer who everyone at that time thought had no brain. Yeah. Because the banks were buying up all the land. I go, that's very interesting. Yeah. Because you see these same things happening today. It never changes, really. And then so off those two go and they meet the cowardly lion. Yeah. Who's a representation of L. Frank Baum's best friend, William Brian Jennings.

always running for populist, known for his fiery rhetoric, but had no courage. And off they go and they meet the Tin Man, a representation of industry, worker, who would lose his heart.

Oh. So, you know the story. Off we go. Follow the yellow road. They get put to sleep in the poppy fields. Yeah. The poppy fields of all things. Yeah. Which could be a representation of big pharma. Big pharma or media or anything that puts religion maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And so in that poppy field, and there's so many parallels that I see to what has been going on with us and where we are today. Yeah.

They got comfortable. Yeah. We got complacent. And I can say that because there's been moments where I clearly have. Yeah. And the wicked witch wakes him up. The good witch wakes him up. Yeah. They go find the wizard. And here's the moral to the story of where I think we've been.

Maybe asleep in the poppy fields. Maybe we were comfortable. Maybe we were complacent. Maybe we bought an illusion. But at the end of the day, they saw there was no wizard. And here's the message. They had forgotten. You have a brain to be your own critical thinker. You have a heart and you have the courage.

And we've been in that parallel. And I think we are in that moment again where we are finding that within ourselves. Right, right. It's my moment where we are posed to become the Jetsons, yet the Flintstones are hanging around. Yeah. And we got to be the gladiator. Well, here's the thing that I guess that...

Through your experience of this consumer advocacy and suing these large companies and the arc of how a case like that unfolds. And so I imagine sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the criminals pay up for the damages they cause and sometimes they weasel out of it. But nonetheless, whether they pay up or they don't, you know, people are destroyed. People are sick. People, communities are destroyed. Right.

So I think what is hard for me to wrap my brain around is that you're able, and maybe this is fortitude or part of the dyslexia, to sort of somehow frame it in a way where you're not going to lose your mind or become despairing or hopeless. That there's this idea that, you know, if you chip away and you keep making these stands, that I don't know if we'll solve the problem, but at least, you know, you're trying to.

Yeah, and you know, through my 30 years on the ground and the work, I can see where the problems are. And if you really back it up to source, I mean, first of all, in...

I see in my environmental work, and I kind of compare it to the Ford Pinto theory. Way back in the day, remember Ford? The bottom line thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. The bottom line thing. We can take the hit, you know, as opposed to recall the cars. But we're not going to fix the problem. Yeah, we're going to kill people. Can't do that anymore. We need to fix the problem on the up front. And we have every ability to do it. Okay. But, like, let's say, like, we start this in the situation we're in now, which is, for me—

You know, I'm watching the Duty Watch app, you know, every 10 minutes. You know, the evacuation line got pretty close to where I am, but it didn't. I could see that coming in. Yeah. It was over there by the two. Right. But, like, that area, nothing burned over there. But, like, I didn't know. I was looking at my app. I'm like, red is bad. You know, I don't care what shade it is. You know, and I left, you know, for a night. Right.

In my mind, I mean, as you said earlier, we knew this could happen forever. I mean, I think the natives didn't even want to live here because of those winds hundreds of years ago.

Joan Dinian wrote about it in the 60s. And you talk about infrastructure a lot. But my first reaction is, well, I got to get the fuck out of here. Of course. And that's a good instinct. We need that. You know, in Hinkley, I learned about what I call my three L's. Logic, your common sense. Yeah. Leverage, the power of a community. Right. And logic, leverage, and loyalty. Loyalty is your stick-to-itiveness. So loyalty to yourself. Correct.

You know, not not loyalty to because I got a little pushback when I talked about, you know, this is never going to change. And either, you know, you adapt or leave and there is no crime in that. But some people don't believe that at all. Yeah, I don't think we have to adapt or leave here. And we certainly don't have to adapt to these fires. We're never going to change the wind.

Yeah. We can talk about climate change. It is what it is, but we're not going to change it. But what we can do is respect it and prepare for it. And there's many things that we can do to prepare us should there be another fire. Right. And listen, I do not like politics, but and I try to stay out of it. But after this Palisade fire, I'm looking right at our legislative system.

People and governor and insurance commissioners in this state who have been in office for almost, what, eight years now? Yeah. And been a part of the 10 worst fires the state has seen. Yeah. We should have known better. We can do better, but we haven't been. We're not dealing with our infrastructure. We're not dealing with these matters on the upfront.

We have ways to become more prepared for these fires. We need to change how we're building. We need to change our infrastructure. We need to bury our lines. And this has all been on the table for eight years, yet the failure to implement. For eight years. I mean, when I was living in Highland Park and I had a gas leak,

And we were trying to track it, and the gas company came, and they dug a hole into the street in front of my house to expose a connection somewhere.

And I said, oh, my God. I mean, you know, how old is that thing? And this guy was like, the guy was like 1901. And I'm like, is the whole city like that? And he's like, yeah, don't tell anybody. No, it is. But that becomes this weird thing. I mean, I don't know if it's a lack of foresight. I don't know how it could be. I mean, you're dealing with the technology you're dealing with at any given time that you're putting things in place.

But I mean, once you bury those lines, I mean, I guess what you're talking about, and I'm just being a devil's advocate, how do you rewire or re, you know, pipe an entire city that's 10 feet deep? Well, that's where I talk about PIRP. What's your plan? Right. Let's get a plan. Okay. How are you going to implement it? And in implementation, I think it's critical that you've,

Because I'll go from implementation to are you being realistic? Okay. Full transparency at implementation. Yeah. We're not going to have this fixed tomorrow. No. It's going to be decades. Yeah. So in the interim, if all those boxes aren't checked off yet...

Be prepared. And there's many things you can do to begin to be prepared. And I would quickly look at infrastructures in and out California with power lines above ground. Right. I would look at...

The state's obligation with these utilities to clear their brush, to clear their underbrush, all of these critical routine maintenance that's not followed through on. And then year after year, it just accumulates and you're going to get a windstorm here. It's going to happen. But

I'm very concerned we're not addressing our grid and infrastructure failures in this state. And do you think that is because of budgetary reasons or just laziness? Or, I mean, do you think that people are delusional enough? Because I know people on the ground like myself, you know, something like this happens and it's still burning. And your brain is like, well, I'm just going to I got to get back to my routine. It's not here now.

You know what I mean? They don't foresee the future that, hey, I live in a fire zone. Hey, these infrastructures are going to fail. And it's about putting the investment on the upfront. And nobody wants to do that.

They like to kick the can down the line. They don't want to interrupt. To keep their budgets right. Correct. Yeah. And I'm really deeply concerned. Gavin Newsom administration, it's right there on their budget, 24, 25. They cut $100 million out of it. Why would you do that?

So I don't always know what they're thinking, but I think they need to reprioritize, especially when you live in a state of California. You know, you have wins. You're not going to change it. We talked about going back to the days of the Indians. We know that it's here. Yeah. So get fricking prepared. Right. And we are more than capable of doing things like that right now. You know, I live out in Agora Hills. Yeah. Um,

We're very fortunate we haven't always been wiped out by fires. And there's an interesting phenomenon that I've observed and people talk about a lot. We have a fire break throughout around the city. They're called goats. They eat everything. Yeah. And then you have a fire break. There's so many things we can do. And you're thinking flying in more goats?

Oh, yeah. Let them go. Let them live their life out there. I mean, they're wonderful. See, there's so many things that we could be implementing, even in nature, that can make things better. It's so funny. It's not funny. It was very sad and touching, though. I saw a reel on Instagram of a woman who went back to her burned down house and her sheep were alive. I saw the same thing and I bawled for a day. I know. Yeah.

Let's talk about this. Yeah. Let's look to nature. Yeah. How did they know where to go? I don't know. I don't know where they went. So, you know... They must have stayed ahead of the fire. Man's ego always thinks we're going to be beat out and be smarter than nature. Instead of trying to do that, I want us to start learning from it. This power of observation you have. What is it they're doing? How is it they know? What is it they can offer? Yeah.

This is the same thing that happened for me in Hinkley. It's the same thing that happened to me in Kansas. It's we want to know why, but we won't accept it is and learn from it. Yeah, I well, that's I mean, that's the hardest thing. That's what I was going to tell you before is that when I talked about leaving, I had a lot of people that are like, we love our city. We're going to build back better and bigger. And I'm like, well, I don't this like the wind is not going to go away. It's not.

And this is the reality of where we're at now. But when you talk about this stuff and the other cases you've kind of been involved with,

I mean, how do you like in the same way there is individual denial in order to survive or in order to maintain some sort of semblance of life and routine? I mean, I don't I really don't understand. I understand the idea of greed, but I don't understand at what point, you know, I guess the corporate mindset just becomes completely insensitive to the struggle of regular people.

Because I don't know how these corporations or these people that are polluting the environment one way or the other are causing these problems can go on knowing that there are these, the results of what they're doing are killing the planet that we all live on. I mean, I don't, do they have some other secret plan? Is it New Zealand? What are they thinking? New Zealand won't let them in. How do you bend that in your experience with pushing back on corporate structures and

How do you bend them into understanding that we have to go the other direction? I think we had to go through everything we've had to go through to get here today because I think the bend is ready to break. And here's why. I'm talking about the Ford Pinto theory. Back in the day, Hinkley settled for $333 million. To the township, right?

Or the city. It settled and people got that money who were poisoned and all of that. And where was this? It was here. It was here in California. Now, for people that don't know, the Ford Pinto thing was that when the Pinto was made, a few of them were blowing up and killing people. And they realized that it would be cheaper to pay the lawsuits and fix the problem. Yeah. So there is an antiquated theory. Yeah.

All these antiquated and infrastructure is part of exactly what we're talking about. That is your fix the problem, fix what's wrong on the line. They've been used to we can pay out the lawsuits because they got a lot of money. Right. Here's where it's going to flip. So Hinckley settled for three hundred and thirty three million dollars. Now, I've been chasing PG&E up and down the state for 30 years. You know, they did the same thing in Kettleman.

Let's talk about the sand. Well, it's in Kettleman. Exact same problem with hexavalent chromium and antiquated cooling towers. Antiquated. Antiquated. They're running a major... Like from the 40s, 50s? Yeah. So what happens with the gas we push and pull through the state comes out of Texas. Yeah. So its first stop is going to be in Topoc. And you build these gas compressor plants that compress...

And pull the gas up the line. Natural gas. Yes. Yeah. So then it goes to Hinkley. Yeah. So they have these huge compressor stations and it operates kind of like your car. Yeah. And they're running water through the system so it doesn't cease to operate. Yeah. Because they're pushing and pulling all of this gas. Yeah. So they add these chemicals that are corrosion and rust inhibitors. Right. And then they dump it into unlined ponds. Right.

I remember in Hinkley talking to my dad and he goes, are you sure they're still operating that way, Aaron? That's a very antiquated system. Yeah. Well, after the lawsuit, they're now fan cooled.

So they've upgraded the system. Kettleman is exactly what happened in Hinkley, just up in Kettleman City along the five following the pipelines. And then you had the San Bruno explosion. That was antiquated, failed infrastructure. What was that? Where the gas pipelines blew up.

And killed people and blew up an entire neighborhood outside of San Francisco. Oh, my God. And then, you know, you follow them up to the Dixie Fire, the Kincaid Fires, the Paradise Fire. Oh, my gosh. The idea that there wasn't more dust coming out of Pacific Palisades. It blows my mind. There wasn't more what? Deaths. Yeah. I mean...

They were in a very precarious situation. Happened so fast. Pacific Palisades, these fires were very much paradise and Maui in one. Yeah. And it's so upsetting and it's so frustrating to me because we're not learning and it doesn't have to be this way. So what happened with PG&E... Yeah.

And this is my philosophy, my observations from 30 years on the ground, working with attorneys, seeing the lawsuits, being there with the communities. It's settled for about 38 billion. If I'm going to look at this company and what they had to pay out, look, Hinkley settled for 333 million. But what we're not adding to that and the corporation is looking at, a hundred year cleanup.

You can easily add another $100 million plus to the $333 million for a 100-year cleanup order, not to mention defense costs. So PG&E settled for way more.

And costs PG&E way more than $333 million. Yeah. But if I calculate that all the way to the fires at $38 billion, this company is on the brink of paying more out in damages and litigation than the value of the company. Right. They're figuring out that's not working out for them. So we need to change antiquated business models as well. As well as the equipment. Yeah.

Absolutely. So if you look at all the money PG&E's paid out in these fires and the value of that, had you used that to upgrade your infrastructures, we wouldn't be in this position. So it's going to take a lot of corporate work in changing a business model that may have worked then, Mark. It will not work now. Yeah. What about the whole idea of...

kind of aggressive developers who are probably going to... I don't know what happens to Altadena, but I imagine that a lot of those people aren't going to get paid out properly. That the rebuilding process is going to be...

But, you know, how do you stop developers from buying people out, you know, at a low dollar to just take over an entire neighborhood or community? These conversations, working with people. And this is where, you know, let me if you've watched Phil Mary Brockovich, you'll know I hate lawyers. I just work for them. Yeah. It's kind of true. Yeah. But there will be a time where you need them because they are going to be there forever.

to ensure things like that don't happen. And this is where state legislation, Gavin Newsom can come in and stop those kind of things from occurring. Well, he did some of that with the rental hikes and with eviction notices immediately. Well, that's because we shouldn't even be here having this conversation. So he needs to get in front of this and do it immediately.

very, very, very, very quickly. So it is conversations like this, being on the ground with these people, having town halls, giving them information so they don't make a mistake where they cave to, you know, these developers coming in really quickly. And they're... Listen, I'm going to tell you something. These communities are real...

Really savvy. Yeah. Now, you've burnt their home to the ground. They are thankful. They're devastated, but they're thankful to be alive. Yeah. They are critical thinkers. Yeah.

They have instincts. They operate that. I'll tell you one thing I know for absolutely positively certain. Everything I've learned in 30 years. Yeah. Do not underestimate these people. Yeah. And never, ever underestimate a pissed off mom in that community and they will be there. Yeah. They will do exactly what I saw and learned.

They use their power of observations. They have a very keen instinct intuition. They will start organizing and working with their neighbors. And I'm going to tell you, they already know what my mom taught me. And that's the power of stick-to-itiveness. They're in this for the long game. And I am...

I wish more people could experience this with me in these communities. It's a real phenomenon and they are popping up everywhere because here's the Wizard of Oz moment. They're figuring out there is no fucking wizard, man. And game on. I'm coming the gladiator. I'm coming in informed,

I'm using and relying on intuition and instinct that everyone thinks is a bunch of bullshit, and it is not. And good information. Correct. Yeah. And that's another tricky thing to find now. It is. Good information. And we'll definitely be out there the best we can be to provide that type of information. And yeah, there's going to be a lawsuit in Southern Cal Edison. Again,

After your Woosley fire and your Thomas fire and all this bullshit, you're probably going to be like PG&E. Listen, this is not working out for you guys. Yeah. I mean, so that like when you in your experience of bringing communities together to fight these fights, you say it starts almost most of the time with moms.

Every time. Really? Going back to Hinkley, California, the original mom, Roberta Walker, one of my best friends in life. A mom. Yes. She saw what was going on. She knew two-headed frogs wasn't normal. The water was green. Yeah. The trees were dying. Nothing made sense to her, but yet she could scream from the rooftops and nobody was listening to her. Yeah.

And she kept pushing through that. And then I came out and then we joined forces and then we joined other mothers. Every single time I've been involved, it starts with a mom. Fuck with their kids. Fuck with their home. Those instincts kick in for them. They know it's real. It is real. It's speaking to you. But we're so busy doing other things. You won't stop to listen to it.

This is where I've learned my head, my heart, my gut. If it's not in alignment, something's off. But they will organize. They will fight. And it's worth it to them. It's a message that I heard from my father. It is your job to be a steward to the land, to the water, to the family, to your health. They know it. And they're popping up everywhere. And when I get involved in these communities, I turn from that advocate, if you will, to

To their greatest cheerleader. Yeah. They got the ball and you need to let them run with it. And then I can get to another community and watch them do the same process. And what do you do when you do that? Do you make sure that they're represented well or how does it work? You know, once... It can be a whole lot of things. So they move through the state government generally and it starts with town halls and then it starts with, you know, pushing back on state representatives. Yes. But at what point do, you know, who says like, well, you got to get a lawyer and are you, is that part of your gig? Yeah.

Well, so in like Altadena, when you have a utility that caused the fire... Now, do they know that for sure? That's my understanding at this point in Altadena. That Altadena, that one of those towers shorted out in the wind? Yeah. Okay. That's aged infrastructure. Well, I mean, but that happens a lot. I mean, these towers are always blowing up or these power stations. But they have to get out there and replace the aged infrastructure. You remember the Paradise Fire. We all do. Yeah. Well...

A hundred year old transmission, transmitter blue, a hundred year old. So where is it? And I think state governors here in California, the PUC, you have an obligation to, to follow through and oversee. Are these utilities, are,

upgrading the infrastructures? Where's the problems on their lines? Are they clearing their brush? Are they doing what they need to do to prevent this type of scenario happening again? I'm not sure when they're going to figure it out. I think if you...

if you keep hitting them, I mean, what is the estimated worth of these fires? $160 billion? But also like, you know, but you're still up against the fact that, you know, you have lunatics who set fires, you have other sources of fire and you have these conditions that aren't going to change and you're not going to be able to manage all the brush. Let the goats go. That's right. That's where the goats come in. You know, I dig all about that, but it is a really good way to keep that brush in check. Right.

And we're going to have to stay on top of the utilities regarding their infrastructure. Yeah, I mean, that seems to be the key element. And the weird thing about, you know, there is no wizard, you know, that goes both ways. There's no wizards coming to help you, but there's also no one, you know, effectively outside of people that do what you do looking out for people. I mean, we have this basic understanding or this false sense of security that like, well, all that stuff's taken care of.

of. We're out doing, we just know that, you know, like, well, my, my power's on, so that's good. Um,

But, you know, we don't know, most people don't know what's really going on in terms of safety of infrastructure in any way. We take it for granted. So here, that's the Wizard of Oz. Yeah. We are in our awakening. I hope so. The facade has slipped. Yeah, yeah. The curtain's being pulled back. Yeah. And I think many of us are realizing, what the fuck? There is no wizard. So really, I'm going to go to what just hit me and I shared it on social media today. Okay.

We're moving into the Jetsons. We all know it. Yeah. We're moving into the future. So like, yeah, I talked to somebody the other day that, you know, in terms of rebuilding and in terms of changing building materials, it's going to look like everyone's going to live in cement houses.

No, it doesn't have to be that way. There's many other ways to build, to develop. I've seen some of those newer homes. To secure communities from the, at least to temper the risk of fire. That's a good word. Absolutely. And they're

You know, so there's always this idea it's one way or no way, my way or the highway. That's ridiculous. If we're even going to talk about renewable energies, it's not just one thing. It's going to be a multi-pronged approach.

It could be six, seven different avenues. And it's the same thing in rebuilding our homes. And it doesn't have to be those cement blocks. I saw one with some of the new construction, how they do grass on the roofs. On the roofs, sure. Yeah, it's been going on for a while. Yeah. And it's beautiful. Yeah. But it can stop things.

fires from burning the whole house down. So I think we have to break out that we're so accustomed to just kind of one way. It's that comfortability. And sometimes it's the cheap way, which is where you run into the problem. You can. And it's finding that balance. It's striking that balance. Now, in the face of the political culture that we're about to enter, where, you know, you have a sort of unbridled champion of

of disaster capitalism and, and a seeming lack of care or acknowledgement of, of science that, that do you just see that as making your, uh, or the people struggle more difficult? Because like, like a lot of what you're saying makes sense to me. And I'm, and I'm not doubting that people on the ground in communities, you know, once something horrible happens, they mobilize, but, but there's also a lot of people that have, have given up in some way.

And that are despairing or despondent or hopeless. So how do you, you know, if they don't wake up to the disaster, you know, how do we start to mobilize that world? Is that out of your purview? Yeah.

No, it's not out of my purview because I see it every day. And I'll keep kind of going back to Hinkley to kind of, I hope, answer the question you're asking. So I feel things. I see things. I know it sounds really weird, but this is who I am. And I think it's because of my dyslexia that this is what I'm connected to. I run into exactly what you asked me when I get into these communities. They feel hopeless. They shut the door on me. I can't deal with it. Yeah.

And you have to respect that and let them feel that. And what I do is bring them information. That's it. Give them a moment to read it, to look at it. Because I've learned 99% of the time, when they do, if you respect that hopelessness that they're feeling. Yeah.

and let them feel it. Yeah. But give them some information. They will eventually, in their own time, maybe take a look at it. Maybe make that phone call and maybe come out of it. And I've seen it everywhere I've gone. And then how do you deal with the people that, in their hopelessness, become angry and grievance-driven and are easily, you know, manipulated by more insidious forces to push back on the truth of

I've learned just acceptance with them, that they're there. And if you're feeling uncertain, don't hesitate to call me. If we could just share with others that we are vulnerable. In of itself, acknowledging that, you find empowerment. Well, that's interesting that there is a breaking point there.

Like the hopelessness is one thing, but anger is another. But eventually that has a breaking point as well. It does. And it's a process. But we've been taught, you know, it's wrong to be vulnerable. That means you're weak. That means I can step on you. And I have learned my vulnerability was dyslexia. And when I could embrace that as a superpower, I became empowered. Right.

And everyone has to get there on their own. And communities in devastation, they often do. They'll begin to look at that. There is nothing wrong, nothing wrong, especially in this situation, to be able to say because we've been taught not to because it means you're weak. Yeah.

When you can say, I'm scared, I'm fearful, I'm not certain, and own that vulnerability, it flips to empowerment quickly. And then also, I imagine having to deal with people that instinctively, because there is some part of the tone of how we're talking here, is that there's a profound ineffectiveness and...

negligence on behalf of state representatives and government, right? Who have ultimately, you know, are being kind of turned out by business in a state, right? And then you have a lot of people, a lot of people who are fundamentally against the government in terms of they just see that as a racket. And on some level it is because we talked about that. But how do you shift that?

You know, that sentiment, because, you know, the only other way to deal with these things is through, you know, privatization, which, you know, leaves the sort of vulnerability of total greed and ineffectiveness. You know, and sometimes the government works hand in hand with obviously corporate powers, right?

But I mean, how do we get people to believe? Because what we're talking about here is that, you know, representative democracy has to work in this situation. Right. Right. On a state level. So I think the other obstacle is getting people to believe that government is necessary.

Again, there's a balance there. And I hear exactly what you're saying. And I've learned we have been taught and believe that there's this huge umbrella that everything's coming down from the top to us. Yeah.

Flip that. Right. It begins with us. Right. And it builds from there. Yeah. And I always envision and I see it happen in communities. And you are going to see it happen here again. Yeah. You will see the community of Pacific Palisades. You will see the community of Altadena. Believe me, they're going to rise. Yeah. They will become that gladiator. I know it. I believe it. And I've seen it.

But if in every situational disaster we have across this country, if every community did just that, light that up. Yeah. You've answered and start to solve the problems at the source across the entire country. Well, how come, like, I guess... So don't think about the bigger picture. Deal with what's in front of you. Right. And also, like, you know, I guess you have to sort of...

Like you talk about these moms and stuff, but there does feel like in, you know, outside of how you're talking, and I'm sure there's a lot of people that have the same sort of focus and anger that you have, that, you know, there is this idea that maybe there's no wizard, but you kind of want a leader you can believe in, you know, in terms of... Believe in yourself.

That is what I've learned. That's why I wrote Superman. This is what I talk about. Stop looking for that hero. You are that person. You have to look no further.

than that person in the mirror and trust yourself. Believe in yourself. That's what's been missing. You're missing you because we're so busy looking for somebody else to do it. You can. Absolutely. Blame yourself. I have fucked up so many times it's ridiculous. And you know what? When I go, oh, I'm going to own that one. I feel a lot better. So what? I fucked up. Who cares?

Yeah. And this is kind of like my RAM program that I talk about. RAM is my acronym for realization, accountability, motivation, and self-renewal. Realize who you are. Realize your strengths. Realize your weaknesses. Well, collectively, not to interrupt, but collectively...

It's that apathy in the face. Because it goes two ways with this sort of like, you know, you are your own leader. You're the one who takes the emotional responsibility. But I think a lot of people, you know, in terms of whatever their place in life is or their sense of entitlement or their class or their status in the world, I mean, personal responsibility to them is,

You know, become selfish. So what you're talking about is there has to be some sort of rising up from within in a righteous way. And then you kind of try to get other people to to see what you see.

Right. And you have to give them the space to see it for themselves. And they will. But, you know, for me, see, again, everything in my life is looking at nature. Yeah. It taught me everything. And if you really do, if let's talk about the ram for a minute. Okay. Their courage. Yeah. Their strength. Where did they get that from?

They know themselves as a ram. Yeah. They know their terrain. They know what they're capable of. Well, they don't ask themselves many questions. I sure think so, but you know what I'm talking about. And how we envision that. But to just realize the strengths that you have. Yeah. And accept the strengths that you don't have. And it's in that acceptance that you find empowerment. Yeah. And also there has to be the realization that there's nothing more important than this.

Yeah, because nobody else is going to come in and do this for you. Right. But also just as a species, that at some point, you know, you're going to have to pull away from the kind of churn of making yourself feel better through consumerism or whatever, or distracting yourself to sort of realize like, well, our survival is...

Is at stake in the face of sort of inhuman corporate interests and arcane or ancient infrastructure. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think of the caterpillar. And again, I will always go back to this. To nature, yeah. To nature. In order for a caterpillar to morph into a butterfly. Yeah.

It has to dissect itself first. Okay. And I think about that. Yeah. And I channel these things in a good way to help find my strength. For every moment in my life that I thought I'm a dyslexic, you know, I was judged and labeled, perceived, you're stupid, you need special ed and all of that. I had to turn that inward. And oftentimes we're afraid to do that. Yeah. And

Like I said, I've fucked up so many times it's ridiculous. But I'm like, I'm better when I own it. And then I can work through that. And I just think that there's this massive moment... Of self-realization. Absolutely become...

Think about this. We're a species floating on a blue ball in space. There's going to be these things we can't control. But what you can control is how you feel, how you see, how you think, your observations. And that is what has saved me.

And this is a lot of the work that even I do in these communities. There becomes this moment of self-realization. I just hope that, you know, it can happen in a spark in light of

you know, this kind of, uh, this, this brain mangling technology that's, that's, um, thrown everybody into conspiratorial thinking and, you know, and, and there's a lot of broken brains out there because of misinformation. Now, like, let's just talk for a minute about like right now, um, we've talked a little bit about it, but in, in light of the, the Palisades fire and the Altadena fire, what, what has to happen? Oh, well, um,

We have to give these people... Nobody's even had a chance to breathe yet. Of course, yeah. Nobody's had a chance to breathe yet. Literally. No. We're not even out of this yet. I mean, it's still smoldering. It's a process. And again, going back to Hinckley, that I learned that...

We need to respect that of them. And they're going to have to process this in their own time. The PTSD and the sort of grief. Absolutely. And the, you know, figuring out just on a personal level what they have to do with their families and housing. It's overwhelming. Yeah. And what we can do at this moment is support, listen, support.

And again, it's about respecting the space that they need and not pushing on them. They will figure it out. They really will. But this is an important window here. And I think at this moment, it is critically important that...

our leaders of this state give every bit of support to these communities that they need. And hopefully the larger government, you know, the... Absolutely. Yeah, the federal government. Absolutely. And so it's not... God, see, even this conversation is like, here we go again. It's my way or the highway. It's all or nothing. And we have to kind of change that antiquated process. You just... I think of it...

So, like a computer. So what happens? We all know this fucking computer and the blue dot that spins around and around and around and around. What's it doing? Thinking. It's thinking and it's trying to process something.

billion data sets coming in at once. Well, that's kind of what's happening right now. And so everyone's going to be spinning because they're trying to process all that information. If you don't give it that time to do it, what happens? It shuts down. It shuts down. You got to reboot it. You got, you just said it. And that's what I was going to say. We have to,

Let them reboot. Yeah. Let them reboot. Right. And they will, and they'll come up stronger. And then, and then it starts at the, once, you know, people start, you know, pulling out of the explosion of trauma, uh,

You know, then you start to deal with practical things. What was the water issue? What was the power issue? What was, you know, back to the source. Right. And then, you know, bring the community together. Town halls, you know, standing in front of committees of representatives and screaming. It's true. And, you know, it's counterintuitive, Mark, in a crisis like this to step out of it. Step out. And you need to do that. Reboot. Step back.

See it. You know, I think a lot about even, you know, and I've really enjoyed Mel Robbins' new book, you know, The Other Side, Let Them. You, if the other side is going to do what they're going to, whoever that is in your life is going to do what they're going to do, they're going to do it. But you need to do here what I've learned, step out of the chaos.

reboot, really stop and breathe and take it in what's happened. And through that process, they'll begin a slow reboot. And

We're so busy. We're so worried about the future. We're so angry about the past that we have completely forgotten to be present. And as painful as it is to be present in this moment and feel every bit of vulnerability and anger and everything, and then step out of it and allow yourself, give yourself permission.

And you'll start a reboot. So I feel like we as people. A personal one, a community one, a political one, whatever needs to happen. Correct. But see, and we're all going to move very fast. We're going to create this phone. We got to do it right now. It's going to unfold. But the first step, honestly, the way I've learned to help people that's even helped myself. And that's all I want to try to do because we're all in this together. Yeah. What you need to do.

Step out, reboot, visualize what you need to be, a ram, a gladiator, or whatever. But start that process. And you won't start the process till we take and step back. You know, Mark, I even wonder where we're at. Do you stop to check are we breathing? Well, everyone's got these watches now. You can just look on your phone. I know, right? I'm breathing. But...

I've just seen in too many disasters, this process will happen and it will unfold. And so, but it's sort of amazing that you're not, you also have to figure out how, and this is just a matter of how any individual is wired, not to be fatalistic. And you seem to be like proactive immediately, mentally, to kind of just, you know, forge forward and continue to fight the fight. Yeah.

And, you know, that's a tall order for a lot of people. You know, it used to be for me, too, until I just accepted, oh, I come in hot and all kinds of fucking messed up and own it and accept it. And it's just interesting in that phenomenon, you start to accept yourself. Yeah. You start to find your own self-worth. Yeah. You start to realize all these things.

things that everybody else labeled you to be is falling away and you're finding out who you really are. And thank God for firefighters. Oh my Lord. I was thinking about the other, I was thinking about the other day because so many people, you know, they, they don't want to do certain jobs or they don't want, but you know, thank God there are these people that that is what they live for.

Do you know like there's like community service and helping people is one thing. But these people like to fight fires. It's their calling. Yeah. I don't understand half the time why I'm doing what I'm doing. It's calling. Thank God. Oh, thank God. Thank God if that was like some other kind of like civic service where people were like, what's the point?

You know, like, you know, or they were jaded or like, it's just like, it was amazing to me the other day that there is a breed of person that that is what they live to do. Absolutely. And thank, thank God. And these very interesting moments of that breed of person is within you, but it again, it isn't until those firemen know who they are. Yeah.

Oftentimes, we don't know who we are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, my mom was a huge influence in my life. She taught me the power of stick-to-itiveness. Yeah, yeah. And its definition is a noun, a propensity to follow through in a determined manner, dogged persistence born of obligation and stubbornness. Yeah. Every one of us is that. Yeah. And when I get backed up into that moment...

I've, I've become a little engine that could, I think, I think I can, I know I can, I know I can. It's all about how you think and perceive yourself. And my mom taught me, listen, Aaron, it's everyone else's choice to perceive you as a loser because of your dyslexia. But I want you to remember one thing.

That doesn't have to be your choice of how you see and perceive yourself. Right. And we all are insulted every day with tags and labels. I spend most of my day. I think of it, of a pack of fucking post-it notes sticking all over me of everybody else's idea of who I am. Yeah. I start ripping them off. Yeah. Well, fuck you and fuck this and fuck that. Can I say that? You know? Yeah. Um,

WTF, right? Yeah, you can't, sure. WTF. But there also, I guess the other component is, alongside with self-realization, is you have to engage your empathy. Right.

Because, you know, it's not natural. It's not a natural thing for, I think, more people than people realize that empathy, you know, has to be, you know, nurtured and you have to have a vigilance around it. No, and I'm an empath and I don't say that in some glorious way because it's really painful. I have to, the agony that all of us are feeling for everyone in Pacific Palisades and Altadena, I've done nothing but cry for a week. Yeah.

We want to stop that because it hurts. Right. You need to feel the hurt. Yeah. And to find that empathy. And then we can...

We can move on. Yeah. The empathy combined with that, that self-realization you're talking about seems to be, you know, the kind of community engine, personal engine, you know, the political engine that has to, you know, we have to find that as a country as well, being that we're so divided, this realization that we are really all in this together and we're all vulnerable. Yeah.

We are. And, you know, we're so afraid of failure. And we're so afraid of that vulnerability. Or being, you know, bulldozed. But you owning that fear and vulnerability, when you do, will turn in to empowerment. Yes, I believe you. And I'm hoping that what you're talking about takes off like a wildfire.

I do, too. And I think we're here. Yeah. I think we're here. And, you know, I wrote Superman's Not Coming in 2020 because I couldn't figure out what is a way that I can really help them. You know, lawsuits are always going to happen. That isn't always the answer. You're not giving everything back to them just because... And they can take forever. Absolutely. So...

It is everything that we've been talking about and is creating your own Superman. And it begins with you and it begins at a local level. And we cannot continue to think or assume somebody else is coming in to save us. Yeah. Yeah. There's no one coming to help. No. And you know what? It's a hard. It's horrible. It's horrible because we've been taught to believe that. Where's my mommy? Where's my daddy? Yeah.

But we're here. Yeah. We're here. Yeah. And we're ready. Okay. To be here for as shitty as the things that we're seeing happening. We're here. Okay. And I see people, we evolve. We're a species. We're a planet. We better. There's expansion. Yeah. And we either find that within ourselves. Or perish. Or we get left behind. Yeah.

Yes. And on that note. Gladiator. It was great talking to you. It was very helpful. Oh, well, thank you for having me. You know, earlier we just started talking. I thought we were just chatting and then I realized I'm like, oh my gosh. It's happening. It's happening. That was very, very good of you, Mark. So, and now I'm going to look back and go, oh my God, what did I say? I've had 30 years of experience doing this with communities and everything that you and I talked about.

I have put into practice. I have seen it work. I've seen how we can change, how we can transform. And I believe that at the very core of who I am and that every one of us is that, is that, and we can find it. Well, I'm here to support you through it. I'm going to, well, thank you. Cause now like, you know, I'm, I'm sort of, uh, invigorated out of my, uh, my, my dread and despair. And, you know, and I'll, and I'll think about what we talked about. Thanks for coming. Thanks, Mark.

There you go. You want to get involved? Get involved. Again, Aaron's newsletter is called The Brockovich Report. It's on Substack. Hang out for a minute.

Hey, people, the Oscar nominations were announced last week, and if you go back through our shows from the past year, you can hear several of the nominees talking about their films. Cynthia Erivo, Adrian Brody, Jesse Eisenberg, Clarence Macklin, and Sebastian Stan, who was on episode 1580 talking about The Apprentice. There has to be enough recognizability of the guy, but then if you're like 10% to the right, almost too much, then you lose the audience, or if you're too under...

then they don't recognize the guy. So it was, it was always a balance. And of course, you know, I went into this with everybody saying, you're making a mistake. Uh, you're alienating half the country. These are people in Hollywood that are telling me this, that like are in terms of taking the role, taking the role, cast director saying, don't, you know why we need another Trump movie. Um, this is going to be a disaster. You don't look like him, all this stuff. And, and,

So it was an interesting mental exercise to kind of not deal with that. But in a way, a lot of what I was dealing with seemed fitting towards maybe what he seems to be dealing with. In terms of sense of self? In terms of what probably... I feel like there's a lot going on in that head, actually. Yes. I think there's a lot going on in that head of his. You know, a lot more than maybe he admits or he puts forward. Yeah. But I think there's...

And so any internal struggle that I was having going into this was probably going to work for me anyway. To get every episode of WTF ad-free, sign up for WTF+. Just go to the link in the episode description or go to wtfpod.com and click on WTF+. And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by Acast. And here's some guitar, like I play what I play. ♪

Boomer lives. Monkey and La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere.