Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. How's everybody holding up out there? What is going on? Nothing good, but you know, I'm here. That's okay, right? I'm okay. I'm good, I guess. Right now, I'm having a good few minutes as we enter this episode of this show.
I hope you're holding up. I guess, you know, I've got a couple emails, a couple DMs from people in Canada, and I'm sorry. I don't know what to tell you other than, look, we're very unhappy as well, and I don't know what it's going to take for –
the whatever's left of legacy media to start reporting on this for what it is. I guess we'll hang on to assessing this here as a just an odd presidency as opposed to what it really is until what it really is becomes undeniable. And again, I acknowledge my friends in Canada for what the monster here is doing.
But we're all living in it. And it's not going to get good or better, maybe ever. But, hey, what'd you have for breakfast? Huh? What'd you have for breakfast? Today, I talked to Ki Hui Kwan.
And it was kind of a great conversation. It's a beautiful human story, really. He won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor two years ago for his role in Everything, Everywhere, All at Once. He's now the lead of the action comedy Love Hurts, which opens this week, which I saw. It's a lot of martial arts action. He definitely wanted to make an entertaining, satisfying, violent comedy.
But we talked about his whole life, and it's quite a human tale. So that's happening. That is happening shortly. It'll happen right here. You know, I went out, and I'm doing the comedy, and it was an interesting weekend, actually. Me and Blair Saki drove up to—we started in—where was that first show? Santa Barbara. We were in Santa Barbara, then San Luis Obispo.
And then Monterey, beautiful drive, beautiful, nice towns, grown up audiences, my audiences, you know, kind of an eclectic but specific bunch. But a lot of them.
And if you know me from listening to this show, you know that I put an inordinate amount of pressure on myself to speak to the current moment, at least in my stand-up shows. You know, I hold back a little bit on the show because I don't want that to become a through line of the show to where I have to manage talking points and reactions. I'd rather just speak from the heart if I can.
But I go up to do these shows and, you know, my audience is like-minded people. And they're nervous, they're scared, they're depressed, they're in despair. And this is at the joy of the governing class right now. But I have to get up there and talk to them. And there's part of me that thinks, like, I should have some sort of solutions or I should kind of, like, you know, serve their anger. And I find that I could probably...
Sir, like because the anger is not as tangible yet. I think I think a lot of people are still traumatized and terrified and in a certain amount of shock and unable to really figure out how to navigate in the brains that they had before this presidency in terms of what they believed in. And you got to hold on to what you believe in and apply it wherever you can.
But nonetheless, performing for them, like I just had to tell them, I said, look, you know, this is how I feel. This is what I believe is going on. It's not good. I'm on your team. But let me try to entertain you in the way that I can. And this is sort of a first for me. The idea that acknowledging the state of things and then kind of just trying to entertain people
Like, I always want to talk, but I generally feel like I have a point. And I generally feel like a lot of my material is pointed. But I'm doing some bits that I think are, you know, story driven and personal, but entertaining. And I was very conscious of the idea of let's acknowledge what's happening. Let's agree on what that we can do, what we can. And then, like, you know, if you're here to see me.
And you like me, I can be entertaining. I'll do some entertaining. And I don't think I've taken the stage with the idea of being an entertainer ever. I mean, I somehow sometimes differentiate between being a standup comic and being an entertainer. But once I was on the same page and, you know, I kind of, we eased into it. We knew what we were up against and, you know, let's, let's just be entertaining. Can we do it?
And it was kind of rewarding. I don't really know what's going on, but there's something now that I'm doing the hours again, I'm generally doing about an hour and a half. I don't know. I've hit a zone with it.
It's kind of new, but it's good. And, you know, thank God, even at this age, I'm seeing some change. Not much, not really any regression, but some change in my approach. And I got tour dates coming up. I even added some shows. There's now a second show in Toronto at the Winter Garden on Saturday, May 3rd. Burlington, Vermont. I'll be at the Vermont Comedy Club for three shows. Two shows on May 5th and one show on Tuesday the 6th. We added that one on Monday.
And I'll be in Portsmouth, New Hampshire at the Music Hall on Wednesday, May 7th. Tickets for all those shows are on sale now. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour. I'm in Iowa City at the Ingward Theater on Thursday, February 13th. Des Moines, Iowa at the Hoyt Sherman Place on Friday, February 14th. Kansas City, Missouri at the Midland Theater on Saturday, February 15th. Asheville, North Carolina Saturday.
At the Orange Peel on Thursday, February 20th. Nashville, Tennessee at the James K. Polk Theater on Friday, February 21st. Louisville, Kentucky at the Baumhardt Theater. I hope I don't Baumhardt. I can't not do that. At the Baumhardt Theater on Saturday, February 21st. In Lexington, Kentucky at the Lexington Opera House on Sunday, February 22nd.
I'm coming to Oklahoma, Texas, South Carolina, Illinois, Michigan, on into New York City in May to record my HBO special. You can go again to WTFpod.com slash tour for all my dates and links to tickets. And yeah, there also is a couple of things here that because of, I don't always know what I'm going to talk about here or make a big plan.
But I think I should mention the passing of David Lynch for a couple of reasons. Kit loves him and to the point where she used to walk by his house fairly frequently. It was near her place and she was, you know, exercising. But she, you know, has sort of made me reassess some of the movies that I might not have gotten before. But I always was impressed with...
with David Lynch. And we, we lost a truly visionary guy in that guy. And I'm sort of an outlier, I think in that, uh, um, I, I, I feel honestly that, that his two best movies are, are the straight story and elephant man. And I, and like kit will not abide by that, but I've always, I've watched all his movies and I've watched some of them a couple of times. And I certainly appreciate, uh,
His commitment to his vision. And he was a very unique guy. And rest in peace, David Lynch. And also Marianne Faithfull. Marianne Faithfull. I mean, come on, man. I mean, Marianne Faithfull was one of the great...
The great interpreters of song. I mean, have you ever heard her version of Working Class Hero? I mean, she, you know, the arc of who she is and what she became, I guess it was back in the 60s. She got involved with the Stones. And I think that might have beat her up a little bit. But Broken English is a life-changing record for me. And she's just, in that period, was very menacing and very...
kind of intense and almost haunting. But she made like a record a year for decades. I mean, there's a lot of records here on small labels, but I did want to acknowledge her passing because she's somebody I thought about a lot, even without a full acquaintance with all of her music. But the weird thing about Maryam Faithful for me was that
After I left L.A. and got clean the first time back in the late 80s and moved back to Boston, I was working at the Coffee Connection. This woman used to come in like almost every morning and just sit by herself and have a French press of coffee. And she looked just ravaged. And I was kind of fascinated with her. And after a month or two of that, or maybe it was a lesser time, somebody at the place told me it was Mary Ann Faithfull.
And I didn't really know, you know, much about her at that time, but that's when I started to get hip to her. And apparently I think she was over at McLean's psychiatric hospital trying to get clean or doing whatever. Yeah.
But I just remember just every time she walked in, there was a depth to the darkness in her being that I had never seen before. And I was kind of fascinated with. And that sort of continued and does continue every time I listen to her music. So I do want to say, you know, rest in peace to Marianne Faithfull as well. It's very interesting in...
San Luis Obispo at the Fremont Theater, which is kind of, it was an old movie theater. It's kind of a rock club vibe now. But nonetheless, during the show, you know, right up front, I was talking about politics a bit or about my reaction to what's happening. And some guy out front mouthed up about, you know, how he felt it was,
you know, the right thing. And I could not understand what he was doing at my show. It was just a fairly standard kind of probably a guy in his mid to late 30s, just a broken boy in some sort of alpha husk.
that, you know, he was kind of maneuvering through life. And, you know, I kind of went at him a bit, but I, you know, I tried to keep it on the level. I didn't I didn't want to sink the show just because, you know, one guy who decided to vocalize his support for some policy decisions currently, you know, specifically getting all the immigrants out of our country.
And I just, you know, gently asked him, well, not gently, maybe aggressively, but with some curiosity, whether he had any empathy for those people at all or even saw them as people.
And he aggressively said he did. And then I kind of listed the other things that, you know, he had signed on for in terms of, you know, it's kind of hard to be a single issue voter, you know, for a fascist regime because you kind of are, you know, you sign on for one, you sign on for all of it. And that's what you are. That's who you are. That's what you were part of. You can't sort of separate it after a certain point because, you know, it's on you.
But I couldn't understand what he was doing there. And it turns out his girlfriend was a fan and she brought him. And I couldn't understand why she did that necessarily. They were sitting right up front. And after I kind of went at it with the guy, he looked at me with kind of like amazed, but yet slightly angry eyes that I was saying what I was saying to him. And then he pouted for the entirety of the show. I wouldn't call it.
Yeah, I would call it pouting. You know, he just did everything he could to visibly look like he wasn't paying attention to me going to his phone a bit. And I did not give him any more juice. But I did. I told him I appreciated his complete detachment from the situation. And I don't know if she was took him there to make a point, whether it was early on their relationship or I'm not sure what happened after the show. But that's not my story to tell.
But I just kind of handled it the way, you know, like a person. And I think that's probably a better way to do it. And, you know, move on for the people that are there to be entertained by my new commitment to being an entertainer at this particular juncture in history.
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I did learn one thing. I went on a Saturday to the Monterey Aquarium, which is one of the best aquariums in the world, apparently. But it was Saturday. And one thing I realized fairly quickly is that the life of sea creatures and sea animals is beautiful and amazing. But human beings, not so much. Not so much. Just looking at these graceful, stunning fish and then just seeing hundreds of them.
humans with their human children just wandering around spreading germs and you know i i don't know i was glad i could lock into the jellyfish and also it was the first time i'd been to an aquarium uh since i've been a vegan so it was kind of it was kind of i felt kind of proud to be there as an ally and i say that in in a humorous way please don't get worked up but yeah i i am an an i am a
an ally to the animals because I do not eat them anymore. Not the reason I got into it, but it does change your perception of animal life. So that was a nice day trip. So when I got the opportunity to speak to Ki Hui Kwan, you know, I kind of jumped at it because I'd heard some of his story and it is a tremendous arc between
To be a refugee, to end up in one of the biggest movies ever, and then to sort of disappear into the wilderness for as many years as he did and then come back, you know, 30, 40 years later and win an Oscar. It's an amazing Hollywood ending or middle or we'll see how it goes. But but I knew it was an amazing story and he's a sweet guy and he seemed like a sweet guy.
And I was kind of thrilled to talk to him. His new movie, Love Hurts, opens in theaters this Friday. But this conversation with him was kind of beautiful. So this is me talking to Ki Hui Kwan.
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So, yeah, Noah, how about you with the fires?
We got a bit of a scare with the Kenneth fire in West Hills. My wife and I were glued to the television, and all of a sudden my phone was buzzing, and it was a warning. That warning. And then I went out. All my neighbors were out on the streets, and we look, and literally like two, three miles away, we see this smoke billowing in the sky. Yeah. And I go, oh, shit. Yeah.
And we frantically ran inside and packed. And it's insane because in that frantic moment, you don't know what to pack. What do you pack? It's like your house is full of stuff. It's like what do you want to make sure that it survives? And that confusion, I just got clothes in my wallet and that's it. Birth certificate? No, no. I couldn't even find it. I didn't even know. But then what's interesting is I walked out. My wife had a suitcase full of picture frames.
And it was nothing but picture frames. Well, with pictures in them. Yeah, with pictures in them. You know, those pictures that's been sitting in the living room. Right. And I told her and I said, some of them are digital. We can reprint them. Yeah. But she didn't want it. Yeah. She wanted that physical one that's been in the house, you know, for the last 15, 20 years. That's interesting. And we put the suitcase in the car. Yeah. Came back, wiped it.
Watch the TV. Yeah. Thank God. Everything. Those firefighters, those aerial. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, especially this time around, you know, I lived in L.A. for the last 45 years. Has been that long, huh? And over the years, you know, we've had like earthquakes and fire, wildfires all the time. Yeah. Yeah.
But this one was different. Yeah, because it was close. It was close. And when they said everybody in Los Angeles knows someone who lost a home, that could not be more true. And I know multiple people who lost homes. And it affects you in ways that it hits you hard. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. It's terrible when it becomes personal or you lose your home or you're close by because I've been here for quite a few years and you always live with the risk of it. You kind of know that's part of the devil's bargain we're in from living here. But it always seemed to be far away and it didn't seem to be that there were structural risk usually. Right.
But it was crazy, man. Did you get the app? Did you get the dude? Yeah, I got the app. But you're just watching. You're like, oh my God, there's fires everywhere. Yeah. Every day it was like one's popping up. How the hell is that possible? I don't know if they're going to figure that out.
But, you know, it made me appreciate our firefighters, our first responders, more than, you know. They were the true heroes of Los Angeles. Totally, totally. Well, I mean, did you, like, I know that, you know, when you were a kid, you know, you had to flee. Did you have a flashback? Was there anything triggering? No, no. Not really? No. I mean, when something like this happened, yeah.
You're so in the moment. I know. You can't think of anything else. Yeah. You know, it's only when the fires are out.
And you have time to reflect. That's when you go, wow, I kind of remember what that was like. Yeah. I'll never forget it. You did. You sat down. Yeah, I sat down and I, you know, and kind of like... The panic. The panic and just the, you know, the prospect of...
losing everything. Yeah. Not only of value, monetary value, but all the history, all the, all the memories. Yeah. It was kind of like when we, you know, escaped Vietnam in 1978. Yeah. You can still feel that in your body? Yeah. Yeah. Oh,
I don't think you really recover from it. You may heal from it, but the memory is there. Really? And how old were you? I was seven. We tried multiple times. It's not like we tried one time and then... But do you remember the actual feeling in Vietnam at that time?
Or were you too young? I was too young. And I have like, you know, bit flashes of different memories. Bits and pieces. Bits and pieces, you know, images here and there.
Of what? You know, of my life in Vietnam. Like helicopters, like American... Yeah, but mostly family related. Okay, yeah. Because that's what made me comfortable. Yeah. That's what gives me comfort. Yeah. You know, just, you know, for example, like, you know, at night my dad would take me on his, you know, scooter to go out for dessert. Yeah, yeah.
Or just, you know, playing with my neighbors. Yeah. You know, just stuff like that. Kid stuff, yeah, yeah. Kid stuff, just very normal. And then all of a sudden, you know, this war happened. And my parents were very protective of us. Yeah. I think, you know, we were so young. I think they shielded a lot of that from us. How many kids? Nine total. That's insane. Yeah, nine. And are you in the middle? I'm the seventh. The seventh. I'm the seventh. I think for me and my younger sister and brother, it was...
They don't remember as much, but for my older sister, the age gap is big. How old is she? I think she was 18, 19 at that time. Oh, my God. So even like to this day when I ask her to talk about it, I mean, she's very, you know, she remembers it vividly.
Well, of course. I mean, she was like, you know, in her late teens. So what was happening is what the Americans were leaving. Is that what was happening? Yeah, the North was fighting the South and America was helping, you know, the South. And then they felt, you know, the war was...
We should have never gone into the war in the first place. And they left. Yeah, and they left. And there was no real help there. And once when they left, the war was over. Yeah. And, you know, we...
We live in Saigon at the time. There's a big Chinese community. Yeah. Ethnically Chinese. And I think that population was targeted the most. So they were threatened physically that they would be either killed or put in jail?
Yeah. Or, you know, have everything taken away from you. And I think, you know, my parents at that time, they were very successful business-wise. Yeah. And they just didn't see a future.
Not for them, but for us. Right. You know, they had nine kids and all of us were coming, you know, my older siblings were coming into age and they felt that, you know, this is not a place that they want their children in the future. And they decided to give up everything they had. And were they both born in China? Yeah.
My mom was born in Hong Kong. My dad was China. Okay. And, you know, before the Vietnam War, I mean, Vietnam was wonderful. Yeah. It was great. And a lot of people go there and prosper from a lot of, you know, the opportunities at that time. And that's what happened to my parents. I think people go there again now. Yeah, even now. It's beautiful, by the way. I mean, disclaimer, this is, you know, this is in the 1970s. Sure. Just right after the war. Have you been back? I've been back. And how does that feel?
Uh, it feels very different, but I didn't go back. It's not recently. I did a movie in 95. Yeah. Uh, it was a Chinese movie, a very low budget Chinese movie that we shot there and it was very different. But even then that was like 20, you know, 20 years ago, 30 years ago. So now it's very different. But like 30 years ago when you, you, you decided to take that movie, what were you doing on that movie? Were you acting or were you doing that? Yeah, I was an actor. Uh,
It was an action movie. Well, I know you worked in film outside of acting as well, but I mean, but at that time... Yeah, at that time, that was my last job as an actor before I decided to step away. But were you nervous going back? No, I was excited. Yeah. I wanted to see what my home used to be. Yeah. And it was...
It was really interesting being there. It was an emotional journey in ways that, you know, when I look at everyone around us at that time, we were shooting in Saigon. Yeah. And I just kept thinking, oh, my gosh, if my parents...
you know, didn't make that sacrifice. Yeah. I could have been that person. I could have been this person. I could have been that waiter. Yeah. Or I could have been just this delivery boy. Yeah. And here I am, an actor. Wild. What did your other siblings end up doing? Oh, they're very successful in business. Oh, yeah? Yeah. The majority of them are in Houston, Texas.
I just talked to somebody from Houston yesterday, a Palestinian guy, a comedian. Houston's an amazingly diverse city. It is. It's crazy. And it's so big and so many different communities there.
So they ended up there the whole time, huh? Yeah. And it's amazing. It's really, it's grown so much since my sisters, my siblings came to. I mean, they were the very early group to go there in the late 80s. And was there a big Chinese community? No, no. Back then it was very small. But now there's a big Asian community, a big Vietnamese community, a big Chinese community. Yeah.
The food, the restaurants are great. I know. They got all kinds. When you have all the different communities, you got all the kinds of food. Yeah. And the ones that serve the community are the better ones. Yeah. You know. So how did it work when you guys left? You know, did you all go as one family? No, we had, I mean, it's too big of a family to escape. So it was a real escape. Yeah. And yeah, it was escape in the middle of the night.
It wasn't like, oh, we go buy a plane ticket and get on a plane and leave. It was nothing like that. Oh, my God. You know, we tried multiple times, got caught. And what happened when you got caught? Put in jail. The whole family? Yeah. Or half the family? I was in jail a couple of times with my father. The last time, my mom took three kids and escaped to Malaysia. Yeah.
And then they immigrated to Los Angeles. My dad took six of his kids, myself included. And then we went to Hong Kong. We escaped to Hong Kong. On the successful escape. So when you were put in jail, how long did you have to stay in jail for? The first time was three weeks. The second time was three months. You were in jail for three months as a kid? As a kid, yeah. With other kids? No, with my dad.
So it's just the two of you? Yeah, it was just the two of us, yeah. Do you have that memory too? Yeah, I have images of that, like my dad being handcuffed, me not knowing what's going on, and it was just a tiny cell with me. It's just me and him. And it was tough to watch because...
Every dad is every kid's hero, right? Yeah, strong man. Strong man. You look up to him. You look to him to protect you. Yeah. So to see him in such a vulnerable state, you know, that wasn't... It's hard. It's not good for mental health. Yeah, for a kid, yeah. And I guess you guys had no idea how long he would necessarily be in there. Yeah.
Yeah, you don't know. But I mean, you know, eventually they let us out and then we didn't give up. My dad was, you know, was very persistent. Yeah. You know, he wanted to make sure that we would have a bright future and we tried again.
But the last attempt was, it was more of a, it wasn't a secret as much. Yeah. It cost us a lot. It cost the entire fortune of my parents. In fact, they didn't even have enough. They had to borrow money from their friends. And who are you paying off? At that time, probably, you know, government officials. Right. You know, whoever that was, you know, was...
orchestrating this escape. Yeah. Because it wasn't a secret as much because we got on a boat that had more than 3,000 people. Leaving. Leaving, yeah. So I imagine even though they're grifting and making money off it, they probably wanted people to leave.
Well, they'll probably think, again, this is just me second guessing. They're probably thinking, you know, whether we want it or not, people were leaving. So might as well profit from it. Right, right. They're going to try to get out one way or the other. And where did you end up? Hong Kong? Yeah, we ended up in Hong Kong. I spent a year in a refugee camp.
With your family. With my family. You know, there were like pictures and books, you know, that was written about it. Yeah. And, you know, UNHCR, which I got involved with recently, a year ago. I didn't even know this. I went to their archive. Yeah. And I saw. What is that? You know, they do wonderful work for displaced people around the world. UNHCR? Yeah, UNHCR.
Oh, okay. So that's the United Refugee Administration Program? Yeah. Okay, yeah. And, you know, they were talking to the Hong Kong government at that time to get all of us
I mean, on shore. Yeah. We stay there and they will help working around with all the different countries. To try to get you guys relocated. Yeah, relocated. Yeah. And, you know, I'm really grateful to the American government at that time. I think Trump shut that down. Yes, unfortunately. Yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, you know, it's...
But we were just very lucky. And this was, you know, 45 years ago. And I just hope, you know, we have a lot of displaced people now, which is shocking. I mean, back then, I think it was like, what, maybe a million. Now it's over 110 million displaced people. And I just hope that people can really, you know, it's a very divided subject. But I just hope that people can look at it through the lens of empathy and compassion. You know, I'm very scared about...
The lack of empathy, because I think that, you know, if you don't work the muscle that is empathy, if you don't allow your heart to engage in it, it just goes away. I don't think it's a natural thing. I think it's something, you know, tolerance and empathy has to be something that you let happen as opposed to just work. That's a very good point, Mark. Yeah. Work from anger or some sort of resentment or hatred, right?
Because, you know, everybody's pretty selfish. So to sort of engage in the concern for other people, it's not really second nature, I think, in the big picture. I think like if you're on the street and somebody's in trouble, you know, people will show up. But if they have time to think about whatever politics or whatever they think is a threat, then they stop being able to see people as people.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, like, how did you end up with the United States? I mean, I imagine the agency was trying to move people wherever. Well, yeah, they were asking us where we wanted to be. And then because my mom got out early before we did. She went to Malaysia. To Malaysia, yeah. And then she immigrated to Los Angeles.
So when they were asking us where we wanted to be, of course we wanted to be reunited with my mom and my other siblings. Yeah. So Los Angeles was the place we chose. Yeah. And in 1979... Yeah.
I got on the plane for the very first time and landed in Los Angeles. How old were you? I was eight. Yeah. Yeah. That must have been crazy. Was it a military plane? No, no. It was just a regular commercial plane. And you had your papers and you were ready to go? Yeah, yeah. I remember my dad holding a bunch of folders, a stack of documents. Yeah.
And then just coming here and reuniting with my brother, who's my best friend, and my mom, who I hadn't seen in a long time, was such a wonderful memory. Even now, I can recall what that was like. And of course, back then, when you get off the plane, your family meets you right at the gate. Yeah, they're there. It's not like now where you have to meet them baggage claim or outside the terminal. Sure.
But, yeah, the minute we walked out, it was incredible. And you remember it? Yeah, I remember. The joy? Oh, yes. Yes, yes. The crying. Everybody's crying. Yeah. Yeah. And so was your mom all set up? Did she have a place? Yeah, yeah. You know, we were living in Chinatown, Los Angeles at that time. Yeah. It was a really small community. We rented a house. Yeah. Down there? Yeah, in Chinatown, Los Angeles. Mm-hmm.
And it was crowded, I remember. It was just three bedrooms. And there was 11 of you? 11 of us. Yeah. And we also had to rent, you know, half of the room out just to help cover the rent. Because when we got here, I mean, we had nothing. Yeah. And not only nothing, like we were, my parents were in debt. Yeah. Yeah.
But it didn't matter. Yeah. You were here. We were here. We were all together. Yeah. And how did everybody start getting work? Oh, immediately. The older siblings. Yeah. You know, they all love to work and they're very ambitious. Yeah. So in Chinatown, you know, they went and we didn't even have a car. Yeah. But it was such a small community that you can walk.
anywhere and everywhere. Yeah. What is the makeup? What province do most of the people in Chinatown come from? Is there a specific one? It's a variety. But then this is, I'm talking about like in the 1970s. The majority of them were
Vietnamese, Chinese refugees. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But then you also have the Chinese people who lived here for a long time. Already. They didn't come in the 70s. They probably came way earlier than we did. Maybe in the 1800s. Yeah. You know, for the wrong reasons. Yeah.
But, I mean, did you feel a class tension between the Chinese community that had been there forever and the new people? No, no, no. Not really? No. Do you speak Vietnamese? No, I don't, but my older siblings do. We all spoke the same language. We spoke Chinese. And everybody there spoke Chinese.
you know, Chinese. Yeah, yeah. Cantonese, specifically. Yeah, it's amazing, like these Chinatowns, like the, I don't know if they call it a diaspora, but it's always interesting to me that Chinese people got everywhere. I mean, they're represented in every state, everywhere. Yeah, there's so many different, you know, provinces and different dialects. Yeah.
But yeah, we do have a big, you know, Asian diaspora. Oh, yeah. Which is great. And have you been back to China? Yes. My wife is from China. Okay. So, you know. She's first generation here?
No, no. She's born and raised in China. Oh, really? Yeah, we met in Shanghai. She's born and raised in Shenzhen, which is a city right next to Hong Kong. Yeah, and we've been together for 22 years. Oh, so she's got family there. Yeah, she's got family there. I went to China once, I guess in the early 90s, and it was like going to another world. Yeah. I mean, I went to Beijing once.
And it was crazy. I'd never seen anything like it. A lot of different types of bicycles. Yeah. Well, back then, a lot of bicycles. Now, a lot of cars. Oh, yeah. Well, there was that too, but I noticed that a lot of people were riding contraptions almost. I mean, that was one of my memories. I'm like, how many different kinds of pedal...
machines do they have? You know, when my wife and I dated, which was in the early 2000s, China was a very different country. One, like she couldn't even get a visa to come here. And it wasn't as wealthy or as developed as it is now today. You go now, I mean, it's just incredible. Yeah. Incredible. One skyscraper bigger than the other. Yeah.
There's a lot of wealth, a lot of new buildings, residential buildings. It's very different. And there's no trouble getting in and out? No, no trouble getting in and out. People can come here. People can come here on a visa. And they have a lot of tourists over there too. So when you get here and you're eight years old, I mean, I'm sure you've told this story plenty of times, but how do you end up being a child actor?
I did not look, I did not want to be an actor or even, you know, this profession was not even on, you know, on my radar. Sure. I was just being a kid. I was just like, you know, I was 11 and I was just busy trying to learn English. Right. Acclimating. You going to public school? Yeah, public school. How was that?
It was great. I loved it. You know, because it's largely a Chinese community, so all my friends, all my classmates were Asian. Yeah, yeah. So it was not hard to, you know— Integrate. To integrate, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So I was just busy being a kid, and one day this casting director showed up.
At your school? At my school with a camera and with his associates. And all of a sudden I see all these kids lining up to audition for this movie that I know nothing about. Yeah. My brother was one of them. And I kind of, you know, I was with him. Yeah. We were just chatting and I was just looking over as he's like studying the sides of
I had no idea what it was for. How old were you? 10? No, I was 11. 11, yeah. 11, 12. And he was just looking at these script pages? Yeah, script pages. I can barely read them. My reading comprehension wasn't that great at the time. And when it was his turn to go into the room to audition for the casting director, I was with him. I was with him and I genuinely...
loved the process and I thought he could do better. So I was giving him direction, like as if I was the director. So they were giving him notes and you were explaining it to him? Yeah, and I was just telling him to be scary or to have bigger energy. I was just like throwing these directions at him. Yeah, yeah. And the casting director saw that. He looked over and he says, who is this kid, you know? Yeah.
And he says, hey, what's your name? I said, Key. And he says, do you want to go and audition for me? Yeah. And I said, yeah. I didn't think much of it. I didn't think it was hard or anything. But then, of course, once when I was in the seat, it was hard. You got nervous? Yeah. I stumbled on my lines. I didn't know how to.
how to say the lines properly. Right. Uh, but luckily he, um, uh, he, he, he saw past that. He says, he just put it down. Just, just, I just want to talk to you. Yeah. And we had a nice chat. What was the chat about? It was just like, you know, like, you know, how many siblings do you have? Just, you know, just very, uh, a common question. What's your favorite subject in school? Yeah. Uh,
How many siblings do you have? How long have you been here? Right. You know, just common questions. And after it was done, I didn't know. I was told years later when I walked out.
He called Steven Spielberg and George Lucas, who were looking for an Asian kid for a long time. And they said, we don't have to look any further. I think I found him. And from that day forward, my life has been changed. So you're at home and they come over to your house and say, we want you? We got a call the following day. And their assistant says, we would like you.
He had to come in. Yeah. I didn't even speak English. So it was my brother, my older brother, who was on the phone talking to the assistant. Right.
And so she was saying, we want him to come in. And my brother nonchalantly says, he can't. We don't have a car. We can't get to Hollywood. And it was literally only 12 miles away. Right. It was only 12 miles away. So would they send a car? So that's exactly what they did. They said, don't worry. We'll send a car. We'll send a driver over. And yeah. And then you go what? They take you over to the production? They took me to Burbank. They took me to Burbank Studios. Yeah. It was the first time I've seen a studio. Yes.
We went past the security, and all of a sudden, I'm there with my mom in the lobby, and out walks this man with a beard and a mustache, and I had no idea who he is. And then he got down to my level. We had a nice chat. I was wearing this stupid three-piece suit that made me really uncomfortable. Yeah.
And, yeah, we had a little chat. Yeah. And I was told to go back the next day and just wear something that I'm more comfortable in. Like your clothes. Yeah, just like regular clothes. Just clothes that I would normally wear to school. Yeah. And I did. And I...
walked in the room and there was George Lucas, Harrison Ford, and Steven Spielberg. Crazy. Yeah, it was pretty insane. And to think that only four years prior to that was when I came here as a refugee. Yeah. We had nothing. You'd been in prison. You'd been in a refugee camp. I'd been in a refugee camp. And all of a sudden, I find myself walking
on a set with basically the biggest filmmakers on the planet and the biggest movie star on the planet. So you're in that room with them at first, but you have no idea who they really are, but you know that you're in a big thing. I didn't know I was in a big thing. I didn't know who, because at that time, I've never seen Star Wars or Raiders. Right. So to me, they were just, you know, guys. Yeah.
And I think it's because of my lack of knowledge of who they are made me really comfortable because there was no stakes for me. Sure. And what was that first meeting like? Was it sort of like to see if you had chemistry with Harrison? Yeah, we did. I did the famous card scene.
from Temple of Doom. Yeah. That scene was not in the script. Right. It was a scene that Stephen came up. It was improvised, but that exchange between Indy and Short Round came off so funny. Yeah. Stephen and George says, we got to have that in the movie. And you did that in the room, just improvised? Yeah, just improvised. Yeah, so he gave me the premise. He was just like, hey, you guys are playing cards.
And then you catch Indy cheating. Okay. He's cheating and you're not happy. Yeah. And so that's the premise. And that was the kind of, not the audition, but that was the first time you were with him. That was the first time. Yeah, with Harrison. And then also, you know, we did a couple of, you know, scenes from the script. Sure.
And we spent, you know, in an afternoon together, a couple of hours. And you still don't know who he is, really? I still don't know. But he's just... I still don't know. But he's being nice to you. He's trying to connect. To me, it was, oh, these guys are really friendly, really nice. And a few weeks later...
You know, like before I got on a plane to go to Sri Lanka, then all of a sudden I'm going in for wardrobe fitting, you know, all of that. And I said, oh, this is, what's going on? I had no clue. And I still didn't know at that time, I still didn't know I was making a sequel to
To the biggest movie. Yeah. In 1982. Yeah, that's hilarious. And what's your mom thinking? She loved it. Yeah? Yeah. Did she know who they were?
She didn't know who they were, but she knew, you know... What was at stake. What was at stake. Yeah. And she was just very proud. Yeah. She was very proud of me. Oh. Yeah. And so, and then the next thing you know, they shot it in Sri Lanka? They shot it, we shot in Sri Lanka for three weeks. That's your second time on a plane? Yeah.
Yes. Second time on a plane. I went from riding in the back of the plane to riding first class to Sri Lanka. And we shot the majority of the movie in London. Yeah. And every day must have been just amazing.
Because, you know, you don't know anything about this process. I know. It was like – And you were just a natural at it, I guess. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I mean, I look at that movie now and I'm still surprised because I had no prior acting experience. Sure. Never been on a movie set before. Yeah.
And I look at that performance. Yeah. And I said, yeah, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. But I would have to credit Spielberg. Sure. He's so good with kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.
What was it about him? He just trusted him and he'd kind of make it clear what you needed to do? Yeah. And his voice is very soothing. And he's just – because he's a kid himself. Yeah, yeah. And every time he talks to you, he's never looking down at you. He always gets to your level to give you directions and tell you exactly what he wants you to do. And every time –
And what's incredible is like, you know, when I do something, when I do a good take, you know, I would get a high five. You know, I would get, you know, wow, really good key, you know, that constant praise. And as a kid, you love it. Yeah. It's the greatest feeling ever.
How long did it take to shoot it? It was five months. Back then, five months. They don't do movies like that anymore. Everything was practical. I mean, you know, I didn't need to imagine anything. Sure. You walk on it, you can touch, you can smell everything, you know? Yeah. That must have been so exciting. So you do the shoot and then like you just wait. You're like, I don't know.
You know, like, I mean, you didn't know what the movie was going to look like. Once when it was done, I went back to school. Yeah. And to be a regular kid again. Yeah. And then when the movie came out, we premiered at the Man Chinese Theater. It was the first time.
I saw it all put together. Because I wasn't allowed to watch dailies. Yeah, yeah. So I had no idea what we shot. Right. They're all like bits and pieces. Yeah. And for someone who has no knowledge of filmmaking, you don't know how it's going to put together. Yeah, of course not. So the very first time I watched myself up on the screen was at the premiere. Big screen. With 1,400 people. And they loved it. Yeah. What did you think?
I thought it was incredible. I could not believe it was me up there on the screen. And you can understand why I fell in love with acting immediately. Yeah, of course. And I follow that with The Goonies. That was a huge movie. Yeah. Now, after you did The Temple of Doom...
Is Harrison in touch with you? Yeah. Yeah. He came to visit us on the set of The Goonies. Oh, yeah? I remember after we finished shooting, he came over –
Again, because we didn't have a car at that time. He came, picked me up, took me to his house, and I had a wonderful day with him and his kids. Yeah, that's sweet. Yeah, and then he took me back home. Yeah, that's sweet. So the Goonies, now you're on fire. Yeah. Yes, yes. Two out of two, can you believe that? Do you at any point...
at all a little bit? No. No. You just kind of went with it. Yeah, I was never trained as an actor. Somehow, it just come naturally to me. And then, but you had these other parts and you were in Encino Man with Pauly? Yeah, with Pauly, with Sean, Sean Astin. Brendan Fraser, was he in that? Yes. Yeah. And they're a little older than you or the same age? Oh,
We're about the same age, but one thing was very different when we did Encino Man. You understand? I was one of the stars in Temple of Doom. I was one of the stars in The Goonies. Yeah. And all of a sudden, you know, I'm struggling. Now I'm struggling as an actor. Already. Oh, yeah. By Encino Man. Yeah. I just had a very small role in that. Yeah. But I was grateful that I was working. I was happy that I could be in this movie with Sean. Yeah.
Yeah, so after, but after The Goonies, it became, you knew a big difference, there was a big difference in how you were being cast. Yeah, and also it was at the time where, you know, I was going through puberty. Yeah. Now I'm like 15, 16. Yeah.
I was coming into age. Yeah. And, yeah, I spent more and more time in school. Yeah. Then, you know, afterwards I graduated, and now, you know, I'm deciding what I want to do. Should I go to college? Yeah. Or should I, you know, pursue acting full time? Hammer away at the acting, yeah. Yeah. And I chose the latter. I wanted to be an actor. And when does it get to the point where it's heartbreaking? Yeah.
When you, first of all, when you audition and you don't get anything. And this is like, you know, after you've been in two big movies. Sure, yeah. So first you audition. Yeah. You don't get it. Yeah. And then even the opportunity to audition. Goes away. Goes away.
And you've got agents. Yeah, that's tough. Your agents are telling you, don't worry, you know, we're going to send you out on a, it's just constantly talking you up. Even getting the agent on the phone was hard. Oh my God. It's not like, come on, if you're an agent, you have so many clients and all your other clients are making money for you. And who is this actor that's not making money for you? And he's calling you to, to, to, to, to see if he has, if there's, if there's any opportunities out there. Uh,
Yeah, it was like just getting my agent on the phone was hard. Oh, my God. It's such a unique story because, you know, generally...
I would say more so than not, it doesn't really end that well for child actors. Yeah, yeah. In terms of, you know, where their life goes. It's hard. Right. Because they change physically. And, you know, what you're known for is gone because you were a kid. You know, my Goonies brother, Jeff Cohen, also went through the same thing. You know, he was this cute, chubby kid in the Goonies and hit puberty.
All of a sudden, you know, he lost all the weight. He also had a really difficult time getting a job as an actor. And Dick Donner, the director of the Goonies, really mentored him and says, kid, you know, it's not just acting to be in this business. There are other stuff that you can do too. Yeah. And kind of guided him down this path to be an entertainment lawyer. And that's what he— Paid for his tuition. Oh, he did? He did. Oh, wow.
That's sweet. And came out, and now Jeff Cohen is one of the most successful entertainment attorneys in Hollywood. He has his own law firm. He's my entertainment lawyer. By the way, he's been my attorney for 25 years, ever since he started his own law firm. I was one of his first clients. I signed with him right away.
But what's incredible is this. Yeah. I never made him any money. But you were friends. We were friends. From noonies. But I never, yeah. I would tell people that he's my lawyer all the time. But then secretly, I'm just thinking, God, should I even say that? Because he's never made a dime off of me. But what's incredible is that. Yeah.
Every time I call him or need legal advice, he's always there. He's always there, picks up my phone, returns my call the very same day all the time. So I'm really happy that I'm making him some money now. So when do you figure out that you want to stay in show business, but you have to figure out a way to do it that doesn't involve acting as much?
You know, it was not an easy... It was not like, oh, one day I wake up and go, wow, okay, I know what I want to do. I need another plan. Yeah, yeah. But it was like slowly, gradually, and, you know, and I think the...
You know, the seed was planted when you spent so much time alone. Yeah. And waiting. And then especially like when you're in your, like, what, 21, 22? And you have no real control over your life. Yeah. You're just waiting for someone to make a decision. Yeah, because there's nothing you can do. If nobody hires you as an actor, there's practically nothing you can do. Yeah. And that's what happened to me. And I said...
I didn't want to live my prime years like that. Yeah. I mean, so how did you decide? What changed? What did you do? One day I decided to go to college. I said, you know what?
let me try to enroll in film school. And if I get in, then it's meant to be. You're in your 20s? I'm in my 20s, yeah. Yeah. So I said, I want to see in, you know, film schools are very hard to get into. So I applied and I said, if I get in, then it's meant to be. It's meant that I need to continue my education. Where'd you apply? To USC. Oh. You could have got a good letter of recommendation there, it seems. Yeah. Did you? No, I didn't want to...
People were saying at that time, oh, you should get, you know, you should call in the favor. Yeah, yeah. Cardano or especially, you know. Oh, Donner's from there too? No, no, but especially Lucas and Spielberg. Yeah, yeah.
I didn't want to bother him. You didn't? Yeah, I just feel like, you know, they're so busy. I'm one of those people where, ah, they're so busy, let's not bother them. Wow. Just try to do things yourself. That's pretty noble. Yeah. Well, when you graduated, you got a film degree, you did some shooting, you made some movies in college. Yeah, my first movie out of college was X-Men.
As an action choreographer. But was the plan to direct or was it when you got out? The plan was, yeah, the plan was to direct. But then before I even got there,
I got this call from this Hong Kong director who just got a job as an action choreographer on X-Men. Okay. So he says, would you want to come work for me? Yeah. And I said, of course. Yeah. Hell yes. Yeah, yeah, why not? Packed my bag and showed up and... In Hong Kong? No, in Toronto. Okay. Toronto, Canada. Yeah. Met a young Kevin Feige. Yeah. Met a young Hugh Jackman. Yeah. And that was the first time...
that I stepped behind the camera. Yeah. I was being paid. I had a job and all of a sudden, I knew what I wanted to do. Like the future didn't seem so bleak anymore. You wanted to be, you wanted to be the coordinator? Yeah. Now, when you were in college, did you make films? Yes, we made films, made short films. Yeah. You know, and those were really fun. It was, yeah,
It was that time where all of us wanted to be the next Spielberg and the next Lucas. Yeah, yeah. We're all like full of aspirations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, we were – because that generation, my generation, we were all heavily influenced by those movies in the 70s and the 80s. Of course, yeah. And you were into. Yeah. Yeah.
So when I, you know, like all my friends, my USC friends and I, we graduated with really high hopes. We all think we're going to change the world and make, you know, record-breaking movies. Did any of them do it? Reality set it. We realized that first, there's no one, you know, no one is going to be Steven Spielberg. No one is going to be George Lucas. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, yeah, some of my friends went on to be great writers. Yeah. Some of them are great, you know, sound mixers. Yeah. Film editors. They covered it all at that school, huh? Yeah, yeah. So this action choreography. Yeah. Did you know anything about it other than being a kid actor? I had the background. I studied Taekwondo for many years. I have a black belt in Taekwondo. And I grew up watching Taekwondo.
And loving those Hong Kong 80s action movies. Yeah, yeah. From Jackie Chan, Samuel Hong. Yeah. And so my brother and I, we were enamored with that genre. Yeah, yeah. So we would go, we would study. Yeah. Come back, watch those movies, and then we would like walk out the fights ourselves. Because you knew the moves. We knew the moves. Yeah. And then I would even buy a sandbag and put it up in my backyard and practice my kicks. Yeah, yeah.
And I did that for a long time. As a kid. As a kid. Yeah. And thinking that, oh, now that I have a black belt, Hollywood's going to put me in an action movie. Yeah, you're ready. Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready to kick ass, you know? But then, unfortunately, the timing wasn't right. Yeah. Hollywood was not hiring an Asian actor to kick ass alongside, you know, Stallone or Schwarzenegger. Yeah.
So I put those skills away until I call upon them again, working behind the camera. Yeah.
As a kid, and also behind the camera, that's how I made Love Hurts. I know. I can see it. And you're definitely on top of it. I imagine you had to do some training. Yes. Oh, yeah. The training is because I haven't done those moves in a long time. They exist in memories. But they're there. But they're there. So before I did Love Hurts, I trained with our action team from 87 North.
for three months. Yeah. And so you have the memory. Now it's about getting your muscles back to do what you remember you can do. And when you were doing the coordinating, you know, did you become like when you worked for that guy, uh,
Did you eventually become your own coordinator? Well, I worked with him for a long time. You worked with him and for him? Yeah, I worked with him and for him for a long time. So you really learned how you do that. Yes. How you stage fights. How you stage fights, how you do fights that look good on camera. Yeah. And then also how to shoot it. Yeah. Because when you do fights...
there are not places to put that camera. Right. In order to sell that punch or that kick, there's only one or two good angles. Yeah. I learned that. And so doing Love Hurts and talking with JoJo, our director and our action team, whatever they were saying, I understood it right away because it's the same language. Yeah, well, you did it for years, right? And then so now I can, not only am I an actor in this, but now I can contribute. I go, you know what?
this move looks great, but I think I can do more or can we do this? And it's really about...
A great fight sequence should have a story. Yeah. And that's the most challenging part. And that's what we try to do with this movie is every fight should have a story. Yeah. And it should also advance the plot or it should tell you what that character. Well, yeah, because the movie is played for comedy. Yeah. And the characters are very well-defined, even the bad guys, to the point where one of them is a poet. Yeah.
And so each individual... It's interesting how it's written like that because each individual...
outside of maybe one of them, you get a very strong sense of their little backstory. Right. And they're kind of comedic because it's an ironic juxtaposition between what this guy does. You've got the guy who's having a hard time with his wife. The other guy is a misunderstood poet. One guy is your brother, and then there's a bad guy. But you're really entering any fight scene outside of the choreography having an arc. You've got these guys who you...
You kind of get them as comedic characters. Right. And also, like for Love Hurts, it's really an homage to those Hong Kong movies. Oh, yeah, totally. The fights. It's very martial arts, very choreography driven. Yeah, and it was kind of funny because I was noticing there was a period there where these movies...
Like, it didn't kill as many people. Wait, Rambo? I thought Rambo killed a lot of people. No, I mean the more comedic ones. Yeah, yeah, the more comedic. Yes, yes. You're right. It is a comedy, a romantic comedy on some level.
And like I kept thinking about the cop movies in the 70s where, you know, they just destroy an entire city. But then there was a period where comedy cop movies, they'd hurt guys. Yeah. But very rarely did they kill them. And in this movie, some guy catches a bullet in the head that didn't even, you know, have it coming. And it was like a big... It's all about the, you know, the payoff. Yeah. It's a punchline. Yeah, it's a punchline. Yeah, yeah. But before this movie, you know,
So had you given up on acting totally once you became involved with the coordinating? So you were okay with your life? You were making a living? I was making a decent living. I was making a lot of money. I was making a paycheck. Sure. But I was doing what I love, which was like, you know, I was still making movies, but just in a different capacity. Right. Yeah. And I was having a good time. And you were okay. And I was okay. And you let go of acting in your heart.
Yes. Yes. I was doing okay. But, you know, it's as the years went by and I started to watch, you know, more and more movies and seeing great performances up on the screen. Yeah. I couldn't help but just not have that, you know, that feeling. Nostalgic. Nostalgic, yeah. But you didn't know, you couldn't have figured out a way back in really.
Yeah, I couldn't because I was already out. My job was behind the camera. There was no...
There was no way that I could see myself stepping in front of it. Right, right. Yeah. At your age. At my age. What would you do? And also, I'm working with all these great directors. Yeah. Even they didn't say, do you want to play this? Like, they didn't even do that. Yeah. You know? But they knew who you were. They knew who I, yes. They knew who I was. Yeah. Everybody knew me.
That's the kid from Temple of Doom. That's the kid from Goonies. In fact, on X-Men, when we were walking out the fight sequence, we spent a few weeks choreographing the big finale, the fight between Wolverine and Mystique. They gathered the entire cast and crew together, and it was me and another stunt guy walking out the entire scene so everybody can see what's going on. And it was Kevin Feige standing to the side. He says, hey, that's...
hey, that kid, that is the kid from Indiana Jones. But then, you know, and also, just because I was working with all these incredible filmmakers and none of them
ever asked, you know, Keith, would you want to play this role? So that kind of cemented my, my belief that my, yeah, my, yeah, my, my acting days are over. Yeah. So like, this is just crazy though. So like, how does, you know, how does everything everywhere all at once happen? You know what I mean? It's crazy. It's pretty interesting how everything came together. Um,
One day when I was 49 years old, and I was like thinking, oh my gosh, I'm going to be 50 very soon. Yeah. And I was just like, you know, my career wasn't going that well. I don't think I was happy. I wasn't making a lot of money. And now you got kids? No. Oh, okay. We don't have kids. Yeah.
My wife and I have been together for, you know. What does she do? She sells, she does a lot of stuff, but she also sells jays she took after my mom. And then it was at a time where I was also doing Comic-Cons. Yeah. You know, I was doing. Signing pictures? Yeah, signing pictures, you know. Try to make a, you know, a decent income. I was doing that. That's not a happy thing.
I imagine it's bittersweet in some ways. You know, in the beginning when I started doing it, I was not comfortable with it. But then, honestly, the fans, it's all about the fans. Sure. They love it. They love seeing us. And I'm very grateful for those opportunities. But I was at that point where...
Gosh, I don't know what to do with my life. And it was then the idea of what if, you know, what if I try this again? Yeah. You know, do you think people would want to see me? So you did try. You did try. I thought about it for a long time before I finally said, okay, I'm going to do this. What'd you do? I call up my friend who was an agent. Yeah. And I said, hey, crazy idea. Yeah.
Do you think I can be an actor again? Yeah. And he said, yeah, maybe. And I wasn't even asking for much. I said-
It would be incredible if I can just get like a series regular. Yeah. A series regular on a television show. Yeah. Doesn't have to be number two or forget about number one on the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe number five, six, seven. You know, something where I'm working as an actor. Get my insurance back. Yeah. Do you think that's possible? He says, I don't know. Yeah. There were so many uncertainties. Sure. Of course, always. Yeah. Yeah. And also it's not like, oh, I stepped away for a year. Yeah. It's not like that. I stepped away for more than 20 years, you know.
And then it was one of those things where everything just aligned. Yeah. When I said, when I decided to be an actor again, it was at the very same time. Yeah. That the Daniels. Yeah. Were casting, they were looking for an actor to play Wayman. Yeah. And everything came all at once. Right. And literally when I got myself an agent, it was two weeks later. Yeah. Yeah.
that they asked to see me. Wow. Think about it.
Had I procrastinated, I'd go, wow, I don't know, man. If I sat on my ass and continued to debate whether I should be an actor again, that opportunity would pass me by. You would have missed it. And none of this. That ship would have sailed. And none of this would be happening. So you went in for an audition? No, before I did that, because I was insecure.
So I told my agent, I said, who's the best acting coach in Los Angeles? I want to get ready. Yeah, yeah. So I met with him. He was just coaching people for auditions. And I met with him, had a couple of sessions. Yeah. Even in the beginning, you know, he says, Keith, you're acting. Stop acting. And I was like, oh, my God, I suck. This is such a horrible decision. Yeah.
But then after a couple of sessions, he says, yeah, I think you're ready. And this was, it was for that part? It was for that part, yeah. So you had the screen, you had the size. I had the acting lesson. It was only specifically just to go in to try to land, to nail the job. Yeah, yeah. And so you went in and you were kind of confident a little bit?
No, not confident. Scared as shit. Sweating. But I was like over prepared. I was very well prepared. Yeah. Memorized all my lines. Yeah. But still, you know, being in a room with strangers is very hard. Yeah. Especially when you have a camera facing you, you have a reader. Yeah. And...
You don't know, the scariest part is you don't know that if your interpretation of the character is what they're looking for. And it doesn't, the Daniels were so sweet because when I entered the room,
They said, we love you. We've been a big fan of yours for a long time. We've seen all your movies. Since we were kids. Which is something that I've heard a lot. Sure. But even in my younger days, every time I walk into a room, I always hear the same thing. But then I didn't get the job. Right. So it was like...
okay, well, that means nothing because I've been down this path many times. Yeah, I don't need to hear that anymore. My girlfriend is, she said you were the first age-appropriate movie star that she had a crush on because she's younger than me. But when she was a kid, she had a crush on you. Really? Yeah.
And you're actually in her age range. Wow. I want to meet her. You might. She might be here. Oh, that's great. Yeah. No. So, yes, I went in. I was really happy. I was in the room for a long time. Yeah. Which is a good thing if you're auditioning. Sure. Sure. Because they want to see you do it a couple of different ways. So they were, you know,
Yeah, they were throwing out directions at me. Good guys. Oh, great guys. Yeah, yeah. I'm so grateful to them because, you know, they took a chance on me. So they had you in the room a long time and then you left? And then I left. Yeah. Called my agent and I said, hey, I think I might have a chance. Yeah. I feel really good about that audition. Yeah. And then I didn't hear from them for two months. Yeah.
Two months. As weeks went by, I'm like thinking, I'll call my agent. I said, any news? Yeah. Again, this is something like, it's very traumatic for me because I've been down this road before. Sure, of course. The board's part of the road. Yeah. Have you heard? No, no. Have they cast anybody yet? No, no. Two months. Two painful months. Yeah.
Then that phone call came. It says, we want to see you again. So it's not like you got the job. We want to see you again. So I went in the second time. And before I did that, I got more acting sessions. Yeah. Coaching sessions. On the second, when you went in the second time, did they have you read with other actors? No, it was just me. But then also they wanted to see me cry on cue. Oh. They also, which is very hard to do. Yeah, I know. And they also wanted to see me do martial arts. So-
I was like, they wanted to see some kicks. So you were in good shape then, right? I was in okay shape, not great shape. Yeah. And it's not something that I was, you know, doing, keeping up with anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was a little nervous. I go, oh, shit. So then, you know, again, memory, muscle memory. Yeah. I did it. And I was like sweating.
And they were so sweet. They wanted to give me a hug afterwards. And I go, no, no, no, no. Don't hug me. I'm sweating. I was like literally like doing punches and kicks, you know. Yeah. And I was really embarrassed. And I left. And it was not long after that they called me. Oh, my God. And you know what? Yeah. I'm sure every actor knows this. Yeah. When you get that phone call from your agent. Right.
It's this, it's an incredible, incredible feeling, especially for a role that you just want so bad. Yeah, yeah. And you got it. Yeah. And then you got an Oscar. Yeah.
And I got an Oscar. It's so fucking crazy. Yeah, isn't it? Well, it's so, what was beautiful about it, other than it was, you did a great job and the movie was, you know, spectacular and unique and great. But, you know, it was one of these things where, you know, Hollywood and, you know, and everybody who, you know, knew you from when they were kids, you're like, what a great story. Yeah.
What a great ending to that story. It's not an ending, but, you know, this full circle thing. It's a full circle moment, yeah. It's crazy. And what's really even more crazy is you, and when our movie came out, this was on my mind. The last time the audience saw me on the screen was I was 12 years old.
And all of a sudden, here is this middle-aged man up on the screen. Yeah. But, you know, but luckily, you know, they embraced my, you know. Yeah, but oddly, you know, you maintain some of the look.
I didn't look like shit, right? Well, no, but you're not unfamiliar. They didn't look at you and go, that's the same guy? You still have something about you that's the same. Because a lot of child actors, you're like, oh my God. What happened to that guy?
I think also my voice. Yeah. Everybody said, that guy, he sounds exactly the same. I don't know if that's a compliment or what, but how can a guy sound exactly when he's 12 and now I'm 50-something? Yeah. It's okay. So he won all the awards, and it was all very exciting. And you had that reunion with Harrison. Yeah. And you hadn't seen him in years? No.
I saw him. I was doing Loki at that time. This is like after the movie came out. I did Loki. Yeah. So I attended an event called D23 for Disney. Yeah. And it was at that event that I saw him again after, you know, 38 years. Oh, my God. And we took that photo and that photo went viral. It was...
It was really incredible. It was, you know, seeing him again. And of course, you know, on Oscar night, I didn't know he was going to be presenting for Best Picture. One, we didn't know we were going to win. Right. Second, we didn't know who the presenter is. It was your old buddy. And when he walked out and I said, could it be? Do you think he's going to say everything everywhere? Yeah. And sure enough, you know. It's such a, it's such a. It's such a beautiful, like we could not have asked for.
for a better night. Like if you were a writer, I don't think you would go, oh, let's do this. Let's write. No one would believe it. This would be a nice ending to the, again, not ending, but a full circle moment. And then also it's like with Spielberg in the audience, John Williams, you know, it was just, yeah. Unbelievable. To have my first, very first movie family in,
And then, you know, and that night I was with my brand new family, everything, everyone's family, to have both of them together. This, you know, where I started and where I am now. Yeah. What a wonderful circle. It's unbelievable. And now you're back in it. Yeah, yeah. And how's that feeling? It feels amazing, Mark.
It really is. Very different this time. Yeah. Yeah, very different. Well, this movie, the new one, Love Hurts, it's a fun movie. It's all you. You're doing the thing. It's funny. It's kind of crazy. You know, I love, I grew up in loving, you know those movies in the 80s? They're like an hour and a half, an hour and 40 minutes. Yeah.
And they're not trying to do anything but just to entertain you. Yeah, and that's what this one comes in at like an hour 20, hour 20. Yeah, an hour and a half. And it's like it's meant to be where you just go and you escape reality for 90 minutes. Yeah.
And come out feeling a little bit more refreshed. Forget about all your troubles. Whatever problems you have goes away for a little while. And it's just kind of for you to recharge. I love those movies in the 80s, and I really miss them. It does feel like one of those movies. Yeah. Well, great job. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. And great talking to you. Yeah, nice talking to you. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
What a story, right? What a sweet guy. Again, his new movie, Love Hurts, opens in theaters this Friday. Hang out for a minute, folks. So, people, listen. I had one of the biggest recording artists in the world here in the garage last week. She's also nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress. And before you hear my talk with Ariana Grande next week, you can hear me preview it tomorrow.
On the full Marin with Brendan. I brought up that thing that I wrote down the other day, that ambition is not a point of view. And she found that very enlightening somehow that, you know, her intention early on was to sing. It was not to make money. It was not to make a pop, you know, a hit single, you know, that she wanted to sing. And I think what.
What struck me towards the end of the conversation, which I think is a very great part of the interview, was that when she was auditioning for this role, that she had the wherewithal—
You know, to work with a vocal coach and to work with an acting coach. I mean, this is Ariana Grande, who has certainly has complete control of her instrument rights for what she does. But she realized that, you know, this the character of Glinda and what it required vocally was something completely out of her wheelhouse. It was it was operatic, right?
And it was, you know, a different type of of of octave and a different type, a completely different type of control necessary to do justice to this character that that it was not in her wheelhouse to sing for this role.
So she had to very deliberately separate, you know, everything that she is in order to honor the role of Glenda and learn how to sing appropriately for this type of role in this type of singing. You can hear the rest of that tomorrow. If you're a full Marin subscriber and everyone will hear the Ariana Grande episode next Monday to subscribe to the full Marin, go to the link in the episode description or go to WTF pod.com and click on WTF plus and
And a reminder before we go, this podcast is hosted by ACAST. ♪♪♪
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