Gary: Raw Interview
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It's Britt. If you just found my show, you're going to want to start at the first chapter. There are a lot of spoilers coming up in this episode. While we're busy working on season two of You Probably Think the Story's About You, you have a chance to listen to the raw interviews from season one. The raw interviews go really deep, and there's a lot of conversation that we could not fit into the show. I'm really excited for you to hear this.

So many people have reached out and shared their stories, and I will say that I am overwhelmed. It is heartbreaking to read so many different versions of the same pain. The messages that I've received and the conversations I've had have been so powerful for me to feel less alone, and I'm grateful that you have taken the time to reach out and

And the conversations that we've had make me feel less alone, and I hope they make you feel less alone too.

I'm working really hard to respond to each of your messages as thoughtfully as possible. So if I haven't gotten back to you, hang tight. One thing that I didn't expect is that so many men have reached out and they're sharing their stories. They're also being so supportive. Some of the creepers want to know what cologne Kanan wears, and I think that's real weird.

Today I'm sharing the interview with my dad, Gary. My dad and I are best friends. We do everything together from tearing down buildings to riding motorcycles and raising our families. If the only thing that comes from this podcast is that I have all this tape of me and my dad talking, that's enough for me. With that, here's my dad.

We talk all the time and we're super close, but we don't hug. Like our love language is like solving problems and... Smart ass comments. Smart ass comments. Are we allowed to swear on this thing? 100%. Oh. And they can, you know, it's his job to make us sound really good at the end. So...

You're doing great. Need an attorney to look through this list. I'll help you out. But you could tell them about the first time you dropped me on my head. Well, what's that? I told them we grew up together. Well, it's true. I told them I figured I grew up together with my parents. And, you know, at 18, I was already a year late with you. But one of the first times, Brittany was born in August and...

Idaho gets a lot of cold, nasty snow stuff. So we must have decided to go up to the big city and go to the movie theater. And I don't, you know, we went into the movie, went out. Those, I don't know what you call them, a basket, basically, that you put a kid in. A child carrier, like car seat? Yeah.

Yeah, a basket to put a kid in. It was probably a basket. That's the part of the story I didn't get before. If it would have been a basket, you wouldn't have tipped out because I've dealt with baskets. It rotated. So I'm 18 years old, maybe 19 by then. So I'm, you know, like old. Old. And done this a million times. And we went to the movie. The kid was in the basket in the aisle right next to me the whole time.

that gets over with. You get up and you just pick up the basket and start walking and it just rotated and on the floor she went. Straight on my head. But the weird part is I had taken four steps before somebody said, and it's a small town so I'm sure there's lots of people that knew we were good parents.

Right from the get-go. They were probably impressed you remembered to take me to the movie. That I came back and got you. You know, I mean. That's true. Yep. Ooh, this is scary. Other than a perfect angel, what was I like as a kid? As a kid, you always had this smile on your face. You should show them pictures of you when you were young.

This big because she had zero amounts of hair. She was bald until she was four. Five. Five. And her ears stuck straight out. Straight out. They used to tape my ears back for photos. Because it was ridiculous. And we... And they would put corn syrup, a bow, onto my head so people would know I was a girl. Yeah. On her bald head. On my bald head. Yeah. So...

But she always had this smile. We wouldn't let her look in the mirror. No, she was always a happy kid, always smiling, always doing something, even young. And then we got divorced, had all sorts of those issues. As a kid, once we were divorced...

Brittany took on the role of guardian for her little sister. And when you would see Brittany, you would see Braylee on her hip. And Brittany probably has a kink in her back because her hip was always out so that she had a place to sit. So that Braylee did. And, uh,

That's just how they went around about the world. And I think the whole time in Arizona, I'm guessing she was stuck there constantly because there was no one else for Braylee. And Brittany still needed to have friends and all of the things that Brittany needed kept going. And I think Braylee was just a magnet. And I don't know, probably good at doing things with one hand. Yeah.

What are some of your favorite things that we do together now, other than everything? Ride motorcycles together, go on rides, hang out at Sunday dinner. What else do we do together, other than everything? I like working together. I mean, there's just so much. Yeah. We seem to be able to talk about so many different things that have to get handled, and it's all about getting it done. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I figure it's...

There's always something to figure out and how is it going to happen and then go get it done. Let's pick on baby daddy. Brent? Oh, let's actually skip that one. That one might not be a good. Well, yeah, let's go with Brent. Yeah. So Brent is my daughter's dad. And I had Brianna. Same thing. I got pregnant when I was 18 and had her when 19. But we never got married. But still very close friends. He turned out way better than we thought he was going to.

I mean, I love that Brent is still your best friend. Doesn't make any sense to me on any level whatsoever. And which is fine because it doesn't need to. But out of all of the things that you've been able to do or not do with Brent, you guys are still great friends. And you guys have been the best parents to Brianna as a separated, divorced, whatever you want to call a couple that I've ever seen before.

Because the first thing that you told us, you're pregnant, you're going to have a baby. And that was that part. And then I think you moved in with us. For a minute, yeah. Yeah. And so then it's like, so Brent wasn't a part of the picture right then. Right. And fine, come and stay with us. We rebuilt the attic and then she moved out. Wow.

That was a hell of a job. He remodeled that attic all summer. It was so hot up there. It was awful. Thanks. We're going to write. I need a notepad. But you got together again, spent some time, I don't know how much. And then when you broke up and you told me one time, it's like, well, we're just going to raise her, but we're going to raise her apart. We're not going to be together. We're just going to...

My instant answer is, well, that's not going to work. That never works. Of course you are. Well, we're friends. We can do this. And you've proven me wrong. And the statistics, I'm sure you've proven them wrong. So that's Brent's golden star and why we all would like to help him if we can. Yeah. You know, constantly. So Brent's always...

been a good guy in my mind just because he's good to you and so that works well and then there's the next one do we use names in this thing we can take them out okay and make it generic bill like i'm still not 100 sure how i got through thanksgiving like it's a blur because my

And what we've learned since, it was one of the probably first times in my life, and maybe shouldn't have been, but one of the first times in my life that I had, it's like I had no fuel. And my brain was just so starved and confused, and I couldn't start the engine. And it was just, it was so...

overwhelming is not the right word, but it was overwhelming that I couldn't just sort of like... I mean, to me, it felt like I handled my divorce of eight years a thousand times better than those few months afterwards. Like, I didn't feel like my brain was trying to recover from that. It was sort of like you're dealing with a divorce and a loss, and that's what it is. But this one was just...

Like it sapped me. And I'm sure that's what you experienced. I mean, you're the one that has to talk to me. That's what seems so different. It's like, I don't understand. I think I described it earlier that you were stuck. Yeah. Just kind of rigid, like a statue almost stuck. And that's not normal breathing. So I didn't know what to do because...

I mean, you've had these other relationships and families and situations and all sorts of things, and nothing has ever brought you to a halt like that. And so that's what made me nervous. Whatever must have done that. And then it made me even more nervous that you're going to go dive into it and...

poke the bear is probably what I said a few times. But I think what you've done is unraveled the mystery of what happened a bit. I don't know. I think I said mind control a minute ago. It had to be something more than just typical, normal relationship stuff where you

love one another and hurt one another and you figure it out and you may or may not be able to live through it together, but somehow it doesn't take you down to the core. Yeah, I think this one did. The manipulation and the, I think learning that not only was he a cheater, but learning that essentially every conversation we had was

a lie or maybe it wasn't. I have no way of knowing and none of us do. And meeting these other women and having our experiences validated in the sense that we're not the crazy ones, you know, and like we all felt this way and he sort of did this to all of us. And then once I know that we've talked about it a lot as far as my safety, but once we decided to

make him anonymous so that it wasn't poking the bear. It's telling the story, but focusing then on trying to teach other people how to see the signs from the beginning so that you don't end up with people that are like this because he isn't uncommon. And so it's so especially...

With the joys of me dating now, it's amazing how many people that I run across that are also narcissists and sociopathic because it's just common, especially in online dating. Because it's like they have a menu and there's no... But where does the line change from meeting somebody you don't know, either person doesn't know one another...

Hi, I'm so-and-so. And you have all of these. It's like sharing your resume. It's a whole bunch of bullshit. There's a bunch of facts in there, but there's a bunch of stuff that looks a little bit nicer than the facts. Best foot forward, yeah. So I would guess we all have a little bit of narcissism just because you're going to meet somebody, you're going to put your best foot out there, you're going to tell them,

how great they are at what you're doing. I really enjoyed that performance. You're so great at this. It's so fun to see you do that. And even if you're sincere about it, it can start feeding that same process, right? Well, but because, and I think this is really common in just with how many people throw the word narcissist around now is there's a very big difference between

having an inflated ego or having narcissistic tendencies to being a narcissist and or a sociopath, the psychopathy behind them is that they have zero empathy. They don't, it isn't that they don't care about people or that they only care about themselves. They don't have the ability to have empathy. It's the same as a psychopath.

psychopaths just inflict physical harm and not just you know emotional and mental and so if you are an actual narcissist it's very different than having narcissistic tendencies well so it makes sense to me because it's not it whatever I think this art narcissist means it's not

That side of it that gets you, it's the side that has no empathy. It's the side that is manipulating because they don't have a self-esteem and they don't have any ability to create that. So when they see a bright light, that's their fuel. And so they'll just, they'll take it. The empathy is a big deal to me because rather than looking for the narcissistic side up front that is just telling you what you want to hear...

There may not be anything wrong with that if it's sincere and backed up with, you know, kind of some time. But how do you recognize no empathy? It's probably a little more difficult in a conversation or an interaction with people because...

You almost have to get into a situation where empathy is required to even begin a conversation. And sometimes it can take up to seven years to put somebody in a position where empathy is needed. Yeah. Not really, but turns out. It could happen. I did that once. Okay. So he answered that.

Think about any, do you have any questions off the top of your head or anything? I mean, you're doing, this is great. Both of you, thank you very much. You're welcome. Yeah, there's. We can call this teaching a boomer about narcissists. You're not the boomer in the story. Not if you don't. You're going to feel a boom. We call them boomers for a reason, you know. Yeah.

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I'm assuming you already talked about my strengths and positive qualities. You can go on. That list that you gave me. So we have talked a little bit about this, but what do you think about me deciding that I should do a podcast? I've gone off the rails here from our normal. What do you think about me doing a podcast as a

with this goal, I guess. I think you doing a podcast is awesome. It's exactly what you should be doing. It's like me asking my mother, what do you think I should about a demo excavation company or a dirt business? Or she trained me to be an architect and or got me through school to be an architect. I started on the farm and I've always thought how did this little

farm kid in a potato field get to be here and it's by doing these very things as you do what your talent and passion takes you to. And I think you doing this is entirely what you should be doing because it's working. You're not swimming upstream here. This is all coming together rather than falling apart. It's not unraveling as you do this. It's coming together.

And that's the only way I can tell if I'm truly off the rails is if I start doing something and things just start, you look around and there's nothing around you, it might be time to turn around and take a breath. Try something a little different. But as long as things keep going like they do and you have the determination and drive and the talent to make it happen, so...

I mean, there's no reason not to. Well, I get that from you. Absolutely. Yeah. Or a granny. I mean, it might skip a generation. No. No? No. Okay. No, she gave it to me. Well, you got some stuff from her. So this is actually one that it's a question for me. So don't answer. And this is...

The way they phrased it is, what is one of the first things you taught me about life and relationships that still sticks with me? And I'm going to rephrase it a little because I already know the answer that I want. So I'm going to rephrase the question. But I think for me, it's what is one of the greatest lessons that you've sort of taught me. And it's one that has been ongoing since the very first time you dropped me on my head, which is

You've never said, whatever it is we're doing, you've never said, well, I know you're a girl, but you can do it. Or just because you're a girl doesn't mean you can. You've never, it's never even been a question that I can do it. So it isn't just because you are a girl, you should still get out there and ride that motorcycle or get in the excavator, whatever it is. But it has been...

consistent throughout our entire lives that you've never once doubted anything. You've probably doubted a few of my decisions, but you have never made me feel like I shouldn't be trying or couldn't just do it. And we've talked about this a lot. It doesn't even mean that we succeed in what we try and do. Sometimes trying it and failing is sort of the funnest part of

generally not on a motorcycle, but in other aspects of life. And I've always appreciated so much because I don't even realize that I shouldn't be doing stuff sometimes. I'll go, I don't know, when we were working at 801 and I wanted him to teach me how they were welding that stuff on. It

It didn't even seem weird to me that I would want to learn that. But everybody else was like, you know, you're like, do you need to know this? And it's like, well, no, but I have the opportunity. Like, I kind of want to learn and, you know, all this stuff. And they all think it's kind of weird that I'm a girl and I do things like drive excavators and ride motorcycles. But

It's just never felt weird to me. And that was you. I mean, that was you never doubting that I could. You've created a monster. No, it's how I see the world. I don't care if you're a girl or a boy or anything in between. Whatever you want to do and call yourself these days, I don't care. That doesn't change who you are.

or what you're interested in, or what we might enjoy, or I don't care what religion or your race or all of those sorts of things. I'm kind of fascinated by those things as much as you are the welding things or something, because when I see a different race that I get to interact with, I learn, and the learning is the fun.

And that's the growing and that's when we get to know more about whatever thing that it is. And these days with race and religion and all of these other preference stuff, all of that happening, I think it's the only way we can survive anymore because everybody is so different now.

And then on the other hand, I kind of think we're all the same. We really, ultimately, we're all the same and we all have the same opportunities. I wish I believed that. I don't think that all people have all the same opportunities, but I don't know how to fix it. And so the best thing I can do is my interaction with people is give opportunities or interact and learn, but...

I don't know how to fix the bigger problem, but I kind of think that's how. And I think we all get along better than the world says we do, but that's politics and that's not what this is about. Well, I think you and I both just like to learn stuff or we see something new and it's like, well, let's just figure out how to do it. And that's, you know. About relationships moving forward, if...

If she's been hurt by this guy, do you have any advice for her moving forward in a relationship? My advice would be to don't give up. I think you met... I don't even like saying his name. But I think you met this guy. He seemed like it fit all of the needs that you had. And I know that you have a lot to give. And...

whether just simple advice or love like nobody else could comprehend. So whichever it was, but you met this guy and I think you must have felt like he's the one that I can open up and trust and enjoy and share. And all of those things require that opening up to let that happen. And then,

Right when he got you entirely laid out there, opened up, starts dropping acid in this thing that doesn't just make it close. It kind of burns through and leaves a mark. And that is going to take some time, I'm sure, to heal. But trust I seek and find in you, you will find that with somebody and you'll recognize it.

But unfortunately, the only way you ever find that is to open up again. And so good luck with that. But you're trying and you're out there and you're taking care of your own self. And I think that that's the best you can do is you are getting stronger and stronger every day, not only just physically, but mentally. And that makes you strong enough that

If you do decide to open up one of these days, you're going to do it with a lot more education than you had last time. And when you see somebody that appears to be the same person that can let you trust and share that trust, you can allow it to happen. And if it doesn't happen, I'm certain you will strike. And that poor bastard will have to deal with

ultimately is what and he won't know why he just got bit right at the ankles with that one silly I didn't mean that I meant this like doesn't matter you're you're not going to ever go down that road again because I've been there and if this is the no empathy guy we're going to find out right now but that's okay I mean we've we've done things that are tough

to deal with and psychologically get through and figure out. And so we know we can handle that kind of thing. You know you can. But I think once it happens, it'll be even better because you find the trust in somebody else. Then all of a sudden, the happiness comes back and all of those things. And in the meantime, you're meeting all these people that

I'm sure they're going through the impossible test of, nope, you're out. I would guess it's not a very long conversation. It's a really low bar. I have a lot of first dates. No, it's not a low bar. It's the ultimate high bar. Yeah. Because nobody can get over that one right now. I'm sure it's a barrier that can't be overcome.

The hard part is, is it's not even the guys that are like, oh, no, I want to be in a monogamous relationship. They're like, I have a brother that lives in Colorado. I'm like, probably not. I don't even believe that they went to the grocery store, you know, and got bananas the day before. It's a high bar. It's a thick wall. And it's, you know, it's a thing. But that's OK. That just means some time. Well, the right person will take it.

figure it out. Melt it. Yeah. They'll just walk right through it like it wasn't even there. Because I sat here for 10 years when we got divorced, your mom and I got divorced. It's like, I'm not going to do this for 10 years. I'm going to devote architecture will be my entertainment and raise two kids and I'll be fine. And that lasted approximately a year and a half.

So, but it's because I was getting stronger too. I mean, all the same thing. Not on this level, I don't think, but maybe. I mean, it's. I was pretty done. Well, she did a number. Yeah. On you. I mean, on all of us. So it, I don't know.

Somebody will walk through your barrier, build it as high and wide and thick as you want. It won't matter. Yeah. And that's kind of the fun part, isn't it? Well, I'm probably armed on the other side. So we're just... I know, but the wall will melt. The holster will melt right off. I mean, it won't even exist. Damn it.

You probably think the stories about you is a production of large media. That's L-A-R-J media. Our executive producer is Brittany Ard. Our showrunner is Sid Gladue. Creative direction by Tina Knoll. Our associate producer is Kareem Kiltow. Sound engineering by Chris Young and Sean Simmons.

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