Resilient From the Start
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Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of Young and Indigenous. My name is Haley Rapata and I come from Lummi and today here we also have... Hello my respected people, my name is Santana Rabang. I come from Lummi through my mother and I come from Nooksack and First Nation Shwai village through my father.

Hello everybody, my name is Waikikiya Curly Bear Hilaire and I come from the Kuna'a'ndi Nation. Hello everyone, Hello everyone, my name is Noa'lani. I am Nukesak Shwai and Kanaka Maoli. Excited to be here with the Young and Indigenous podcast today.

So today we're here to talk about caregiving. As native women that's a pretty natural role to us in our communities and all of us here have unique situations of our own where we've been put in caregiving positions in our family and had to take care of either our siblings or nieces and nephews. So that's kind of what I want to dive into today. Can

Personally, I've taken on my two brothers recently. I've had them for about six-ish months now, officially in my care. But I'm also...

and oldest of about 15 grandchildren. So I've been, I feel like in a caregiving position for almost my whole life, just naturally. I've always loved taking care of my little cousins and helping with my siblings. But now as an adult, I'm 21 and I'm in a position where I have them full time and my brothers are 15 and 10. And I don't know, there's so much, there's so much we can talk

Do you guys want to give a little bit of background on yourselves and your situations as much as you feel comfortable sharing? So I was, it was in 2016, the spring term. I remember it by school terms. I took in my three younger siblings. They were teenagers, 18-19.

16 and 15. So yeah, teenagers. And I was 25 at the time. So this was nine years ago. Yeah, I just had to kind of help them out of an unhealthy foster ship. A lot of wounds and trauma there that was that were being kind of navigated. And so I stepped in and took them under my wing.

until they graduated high school. Yeah, as an older sister, I'm the fifth of eight children. And so I'm right in the middle. But even my older siblings call me their little big sister. I remember the day I became a big sister, it felt like my life had purpose as like the youngest sibling I finally had. I remember the phone call like when Kalei was born, that I had a baby sister and I felt like I had a purpose and a job in this world was to be a big sister and teacher to them.

And so I just I really take pride in that. And I've really taken it seriously my whole life. And, you know, there's four of us right here. And we're what, four of the five or six indigenous women that work in this company. And all four of us had had to take our step into caretaker roles. So that kind of shows you.

you know, the stats within Indian country, how many sister cousins there are or, you know, sister parents or aunty parents or grandparent parents that have to step in as caretakers. And there's a reason for that. So, yeah, that's a little bit about my situation. I took in my niece. She's four years old. Her name's Nicole. Why did I take her in?

in July it'll be two years unofficially um they did take her away from me for about a month and I got her back in September I believe but yeah I don't know what to say I don't know how to follow that up that's crazy how did how did you get place her placed with you like what was the relationship um

Her mom is my sister. I don't know how she came into my care because she already wasn't with my sister before me. And I don't, I personally, I don't understand why I was like one of the last options because I am family and I don't understand why they took her from me. That was, that was a hard time. That was a really hard time. And especially cause I'm so young, I didn't, I don't know how to navigate and I don't know, like I'm finally just learning how to speak up for myself in court.

it's just really hard for me you are very clearly an amazing an amazing mom to her and they should be doing everything in their power to help you right i don't really remember a lot of logistics of when i do know that it was during covet time so maybe 20 19 20 20

was when I took in my two younger brothers. I finally got my own place in town. It was my first apartment ever. And at the time, my family was still, you know, battling like homelessness and kind of going couch to couch. We were initially kind of kicked out of our childhood home in a really

negative way and from there, you know, we all really struggled and when COVID hit my mom and my brothers and my dad both moved in, all moved in with my sister Tierra out in Everson and

They were kind of all shacked up under the same roof and my parents had been split up for well over a decade and my dad has pretty much been battling addiction my whole life and my mom, you know, initially left him over that but then for some odd reason during COVID, my mom actually started using with my dad and

So they didn't really stay at my my sister's for very long and, you know, started living on the streets. And one of my brothers moved in with his girlfriend at the time. And then my youngest brother, once I got my first place, he moved in with me and then moved.

From there, kind of that's where my caretaking started. My brother would, you know, be back and forth a lot. My oldest brother would be back and forth a lot from, you know, his girlfriends to my place. And, you know, he always knew that he had a place with me, but it was primarily my youngest brother that I took care of. And he was still in high school at the time.

My other brother unfortunately dropped out once his girlfriend got pregnant. And my brother, my youngest brother still had about two years left in high school. So he's about 16, I believe was the youngest of when I took him in and the other one was just becoming an adult, but still, you know, trying to find his grounding and his footing. So he would stay with me pretty periodically.

There's a lot going on in this room. We got some stories. And I finally just moved out of my house. Like, this is my first month in my new home by myself without my brothers. And how does it feel? How are you looking at that? There was a lot of, you know, I felt really guilty at first. I felt like I was kind of abandoning them in a way. But now they're, you know, they're both over the age of 18 and...

I got to a point where I just was like, I need to put myself first this year and dive more into self-love because, you know, as women, as caregivers, caretakers, we tend to put a lot of people before ourselves. And I did that a lot with my brothers and sisters.

It just got to a point where I realized that they have to work through their own trauma and their own grief and I can't be the person to fix them or fix what they carry. I tried my hardest to take a lot of what they're carrying and put it on my own shoulders, but it just got to a point where

I was getting really down about life and ultimately not wanting to be here anymore. And that's when I realized that I needed to kind of take a step back from that caregiving role, that caretaker role. Let them step into themselves and let you step back into yourself. Yeah. And I think that's definitely one of the challenges that we can face, like having to

be that person for our siblings. Changing like, like for most of us, like it didn't start out that way with like it was, it was a, it was a dynamic shift. We went from being that sister, that auntie to being their parent and yeah, it's hard. That's something we should all touch on based off of like what challenges I think we're kind of naturally going into that question.

about like what challenges we faced as you know sister caregivers, auntie moms, sister moms is like we transitioned from a role of like their homie sibling to or the fun auntie to like this role where you had to be a disciplinarian at the same time and so that dynamic shift caused strain on our relationships especially when we're working with teenage boys you know there's three of us here

that took in teenage younger brothers. And we've talked about this before, and I actually had to pull out a quote.

and it has to do with the development of a young boy's frontal lobe. Santana's probably gonna laugh. Okay. During teenage development, the frontal lobe, particularly the prefrontal cortex responsible for executive functions like judgment and decision-making is still developing and not fully insulated, leading to impulsivity and difficulty controlling actions. Does that ring a bell?

So like, yeah, I mean, you know, the older brother of the younger brothers that I took in, like we just butted heads so much. He ended up like moving out and didn't want to follow healthy boundaries I set within the house. And so like, yeah, go into, let's go into more of those challenges of like what happened when those dynamics shifted from cool sibling to parent. It was hard. It was difficult. I think, yeah.

My family's gone through a lot of trauma in the past few years, so I've had to step into more of that role before I was fully the guardian or the... I don't like that word, actually. The, like, their caretaker. All right, so...

I feel like we had the dynamic shifted slowly over time for me. It wasn't like super immediate. They already had kind of started relying on me for some things. So I feel like that wasn't too crazy of a challenge. I think it was more just a lot of, like they had a lot of anger about the situation, which is valid. Like there was a lot going on. It was something that we never thought...

we would have to do, a dynamic we never thought we'd have to put in place. And so they had some resentment about that, which I think is really valid for them. They had to... I wasn't the cool sister anymore. I wasn't the person that they wanted to tell everything to anymore. And it took a while to build that trust back. And it takes a lot of work to build that trust back. But I think I'm doing it. And I think I'm...

I don't know, I'm really proud of how far they've come. It's only been a little while, but we're trying to build healthier foundations this time. So I'm one of seven siblings. I'm the second oldest girl. So growing up, I feel like I was kind of like the second mom, you know? Like I'd get all my younger siblings dressed and I'd be kind of like the house caretaker.

Like, making sure everyone has their stuff done, making sure everyone's ready for school, dropping my younger siblings off at school. And I feel like that kind of made me, like, an angry person. Like, I was mad that I had to do that when I should have had to have done that. And I feel like I carry that a lot within myself today, which I shouldn't, but therapy. Therapy's working somewhat. And I'm still kind of mad, you know, like...

Just because growing up I was in foster care, so it's kind of hard for me just with my niece because I feel like I'm not giving her the best version of myself because I haven't healed myself yet from it. So there's definitely times where I feel like I shouldn't be in this situation, like I shouldn't be the one to take care of her. I feel really bad sometimes because I think like this, but... I think I relate to you a lot on that, A.

Of course, like, I love that I've gotten to take on this role. And it's such a privilege that I can do this for them. But it shouldn't be our job. It's not something that we should be worrying about. It's what our parents are for. That's what our parents are for. But, yeah, I don't know.

I've never seen healthy parenting, so I don't know what that looks like. And I don't know if I'm doing a good job at all.

I would say it's really hard because she's so young so she like she doesn't understand like she calls me mom and she calls her mom mom and there's just times where we're having a rough day and she'll like she's four years old and she'll come home and she'll be like you're not my mom please you're only four why are you saying this oh yeah I just feel like it was like one of the most common responses that I've gotten is like you should

feel good that you're in a place where you're able to like take care of your siblings and it like always made me feel guilty or like invalidated like what I was feeling because like I just as much as like my brothers started to grow resentment towards me I was beginning to build resentment towards them of being in that position of like the disciplinary and like

having to like stop being the cool sister that they want to hang out with or like talk to or like vibe with and like it just always made me feel like I wasn't doing a good enough job even though like I was consistently putting myself before like them before myself and it just got to a place of like really like unhealthy like dynamics between like me and my brothers and I feel like

the biggest, um, like the biggest, I feel like issue or I don't, I don't even know if it's an issue feeling like the biggest feeling for me was like feeling like, you know, my brothers hate me. Like it was like really hard to like navigate those feelings. Cause it's like, I put so much time and so much effort, so much resources, so much money, um,

Like, I don't think they, I think they realize now after I left the house of like what bills are and what responsibility looks like, but it was like, it just got to a point where

I dreaded going home because, like, we wouldn't acknowledge each other. We wouldn't talk to each other. We wouldn't, you know, have... It didn't feel like we were having that, like, sisterly, brotherly bond that, like, I craved so much because of, you know, ultimately this, like, caregiving dynamic that has, like, was established. And so...

I think one of the biggest challenges that I faced was like that buildup of resentment and it getting to a really, really unhealthy place. And that's ultimately why I had to move out and get my own place because

there is no way that I could focus on bettering the relationship with my brothers if we were still in the same household. And so ultimately, I feel like I did what was best for our relationship. It's like, like I said, they're both above age now. And so they're able to like learn responsibility and learn how to, you know, take care of themselves. But

it did bring up a lot of like guilty feelings and feeling like I was abandoning them. And I feel like another challenge that I faced when I was taking care of them was like, once you like identify yourself as like this sister mom or this caregiver, you were judged so much for what you did and didn't do for your siblings. And it's like, you would have to remind people, I'm not their mom. You know, I'm their sister. I'm doing like the best they can. But I remember facing like

Quite a bit of backlash or like judgment or like people just had their opinions about how I would take care of my brothers. And I feel like that was something that I really had a hard time navigating through was like, I'm such a people pleaser. And so I wanted people to look at me like a good person.

sister mom or a good person that was taking care of their siblings, but ultimately when you step in that spotlight, you're also opening the door for people to have their opinions about you. -For sure. Yes, the guilt you feel when you feel those resentments start to build because especially with little teenage brothers, the attitude, the disrespect you get back when you do become that disciplinary role,

I mean, when you're getting disrespected that much, like over and over again, and you just, it's like, you know, as the hand that feeds them, it's like repeatedly bitten off. And so, I mean, your feelings were valid, like to question, like, why do I feel this shame or this guilt? Like when I'm just, you know, a sister doing my best, what is that word? Like that's all we're ever doing is like trying our best and...

And with my brothers, it took them till like after 24 to finally realize and actually like say thank you. Like it took them that long because, you know, I mean, even they're still young, but they just can't see like they literally are so like

you know, they can't see repercussions, they can't see like cause and effect. And so it's, it's does take some growing up and some years and time for them to finally see all the work you did. So hopefully someday those tensions and those, those, that gratitude will come.

I don't feel it coming any day soon, but maybe in a few years. Yeah, give it a few years. Because they're only 19 and 21. Oh, yeah. They're in the thicks of it, bro. Their frontal lobe is jelly. It's mush up there. So in what ways did like growing, because I mean, we were all pretty young.

pretty like in our young 20s when we took in our our siblings and our niece and stuff and so what ways did that influence like your own personal development as like you're all kind of growing up with each other having each other to kind of like guide I don't know does that make sense

I feel like we were trial and erroring the whole time. Me and my three younger siblings were learning from each other. I remember instances where I was way in over my head and I would just be so frustrated and angry. Something falling or a chore not being done would boil me over.

I think that like patience growing and patience because like the first time you come up become a parent whether it's you know biologically or you take someone in um like those responsibility shifts and you having to be accountable for somebody else's life um you I mean comes growth in that and those learning curves that you kind of you know you learn from um

That was like the patience. Like I remember lashing out on something so small and just like yelling at my sister and like feeling absolutely terrible after and being like, why the heck did I have to yell at her over a fricking drink spilling in the car? Like, like there's, there's worse things in life and like her feelings matter more than that damn car, you know? And so those were the things where like, it took time, like, you know, my patience and like being gentle with them and, um,

really taking into account their experience in the way that I responded to what they were going through. So I think that was one of the biggest ways I grew was in patience and parenting and gentleness and yeah, took time though. I was, yeah, there was some, yeah, sibling arguments for sure. Very high heat, high energy and heat for sure. - I bet at those ages, oh my gosh.

I'm glad I have a cute little 10-year-old still. He's got a little baby face. He hasn't yelled at me yet. The oldest definitely has, but the youngest hasn't. I feel like I'm still learning. I don't feel like I've... I think, yeah, that's all I can really say is I'm still learning. It took me a month ago to finally put my foot down and say that I'm going to put myself first. And I feel like...

I need to get better at like not, um, you know, and there's instances where I haven't, you know, responded back to their like negativity, but there are times where like, I've really experienced like a different level of like mental abuse from my older brother. Um,

And kind of like feeding into that and kind of, you know, going going at each other. And I feel like that's something that I'm I'm still learning to kind of navigate through because it's like I've never even been with a man that allowed like I allowed to talk, talk to me in the ways that I

my brother specifically one has talked to me you know the youngest brother has always you know been really respectful and has never really called me out by names um but then I've like

Gotten to a point where I kind of feed into the energy that my older brother is giving me and I'm just still trying to learn how to like navigate through not giving him like the power over me, but it just like consumes me and like makes me like so mad and frustrated because it's like.

I've literally done everything that I can in my power and still like you don't respect me at the end of the day. And so I guess just navigating through like having patience and not responding back to whatever mean or bad things that he's said to me. But I think, I guess if it's one thing it has taught me is to like put myself first and then like also, um,

you can't fix everybody. I think I tried so hard to like fix them and fix what was broken that, you know, our parents initially broke inside of us, you know, because my brothers, you know, never had my dad in their life. You know, I actually got to experience my dad at a younger age and, you know, remember, you know, more fonder memories and experiences and memories that I, you know, I have with my dad when he was younger.

you know, clean and sober, but my brother's never had that ever. Um, and you know, I try so hard to just kind of also remember that, um, their pain and their trauma is just as valid as mine that I carry. And just trying to remind myself when I do get mad or I do get heated that his actions and like his trauma, like don't define him as a person, you know, he still has,

Both my brothers still have really, you know, kind traits. I feel like a lot of that resentment that I have from being in a caregiving role has like overshadowed remembering that. And so I think that I've just gotten to a point where I have to like

acknowledge that like our generational trauma is still here and the work that comes with like actively like dismantling that and breaking that is like so hard it's not easy to do and I think that's why like I need to move out because I want

healthy relationships with my brothers. I want them to know that I did everything I could to be a good sister to them. And, you know, sometimes if that those, you know,

if my role as you know a caregiver and a sister was like overshadowed i hope that one day they can recognize that i have pain and trauma that i carry as well and so i think it's just learning to like understand where they are coming from and

knowing that it comes from a deep-rooted trauma that all of us have as Indigenous people throughout all of us, and that trauma looks, you know, different in everyone. And so just I think knowing that has helped me a little bit in regards to, like, growing more and just trying to build more understanding between them and I.

You like, I just have to piggyback off of, because you really went into the intergenerational trauma history and like it is so present in all of our relationships. You can't say it's in the past because it's literally in our blood memory. You know, people can act like their parents or their grandparents and they might not even be connected to them anymore. But those traits are still there in those, that blood memory that they call it, what is it? Quantum genetics. There's a name for it and an actual trait.

scientific field that we hold the DNA of our ancestors and the memory of our ancestors. And like, we're all still trying to heal our own traumas while trying to like parent youth that are so, you know, still trying to navigate trauma and even identify it in the first place. Right. So that was one of the things, you know, learning as a caregiver is being trauma informed really helps you

you know, navigate why your brothers are acting like this or why, you know, your niece is like this or her parent, her guard, her, you know, biological parents are like that. There's reasons for it. And we can't be hard on ourselves. We've brought up words of shame and guilt. Am I doing the right thing? And it just sucks that we have to feel that way when we're stepping into roles that were never ours to carry in the first place.

And so it's like, be proud of yourselves in that shame, like don't carry it. We can't share that shame and the regrets and the, oh, I could have done this better because we're doing the best we can and that's all we can do. And when we're dismantling this huge system individually and collectively, that's gonna take generations. They say it takes two generations to start seeing that healing in our people.

So we're just, you know, we're just starting. Doing our best. Yep, doing our best. That's all we can do, right? Yep. I don't know. I feel like in my situation, yeah, we're just unlearning a lot of toxic behaviors together. I think communication is a big thing because we didn't know how to speak up for ourselves.

we were taught to be pretty quiet. And so like now that we're in this new environment together, learning how to live life in a new way, like I think communication is definitely one of the biggest things that I'm trying to teach them by also trying to teach myself and model for them because they just...

We had to put up with a lot and we thought we had to. We thought that's just what was supposed to happen. But I'm trying to teach them that we don't have to. And they have a voice and they have a say in what goes on in their life. I'm like, sorry, I didn't think I'd cry.

I don't know why I cry every time. You don't gotta apologize. Do you guys notice we say sorry for feelings all the time? That's trauma too. We don't gotta apologize. Like, your feelings are so valid. For real.

For real, for real, for real, for real. For real, for real. I do it all the time. I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm crying. I'm like, why did I just apologize for feeling? But I didn't start actually asking myself that until like two years ago. Like, why am I saying sorry for like, yeah, yeah, that's, yeah. We are owning it. Breaking cycles. Yes.

You know what Liam called me? He didn't know I was listening. And so he was up mingling with his cousins up on the table and I was down in the living room and he couldn't see me. And they were talking about big back. And he goes, no way. My mom is a big back. I was like, I don't know if I'm hurt that he said that or that he's saying that and he don't think I'm right here. It was comical. But like, yeah, my four year old straight up dissed me and called me a big back behind my back. Behind my big back.

Oh my god. That is so funny. Oh my god. These kids. These kids. I mean. Oh my god. It's ruthless. That's insane. Kids are just so lame. No, their disses are crazy. OMG.

Or when they say you're like, or "you're not my favorite no more" oh that one hurts too. He'll like say "you're not my mom no more" like stuff like that you're like oh yeah ouch damn Ruthless, ruthless. So did any of your guys' situations influence like your career or your educational decisions? Did it stop you? Did it fuel you more?

How did that impact the way you thought about what you were going to do for yourself?

Okay, so I was really in a good place, you know, done with my undergraduate degree and in my career. And so I was at a really good place in my life where I was like idle and I had the time to really focus on them. But they were also older and, you know, driving themselves to school. And so that was actually the time having them with me. I applied for my graduate degree, the program I got into in, I started in 2018, and

So this was while the youngest brother was a junior in high school and still had his senior year. So pretty much his last two years of high school, I started my program. And I think they inspired me. I just wanted to be able to provide. And, you know, I thought of

Like as, you know, matriarchs in our family who have it together, we kind of are called on a lot and have carry responsibilities within our own family. As you can see, we all became caregivers. So I just felt like they encouraged me and really motivated me to go get my graduate degree in a way that I wouldn't have done if they weren't in my home, I think. Yeah. I feel like I'm still growing up myself.

I don't think I'll go to school until she's older because I feel like I have no time. It's so hard. I feel like I'm 40 and I'm only 23. They need a lot more attention at that age. Don't feel bad about it. I don't think I could go back to college right now either. That seems impossible. Going unmedicated for ADHD throughout my whole entire childhood to now, I can't. Literally, it's so hard. I don't know how to function.

with anything and I'm just like uh so I feel like a teenager still kind of just a little bit yeah I get that something to remember is like career and education is not the only measurements of like wealth right and success so like don't think that because you don't have time to go get a degree right now that you know you're any less than somebody your age who is

because you guys are doing things that other people aren't doing. I mean, you're like literally well done on your way to becoming a master weaver, which is a degree, many degrees in itself. So remember that those measurements, right? We have our own ways of, you know, counting and measuring wealth in our indigenous customs. So I just wanted to, yeah, don't feel bad. Yeah, I think that's what I was, for a little while I felt bad because I'm like, shouldn't I be setting the example that,

they should go to college and like get their degrees and have their education but then I'm also like and at the time it like feels so unrealistic for me and it also like again like you said it's not the only unit of measurement I'm also showing them that like the work that I do here is also amazing work and probably I'm probably learning a lot more than I would in college right now

Just by being in this environment and getting to be around all the people we are, like, that's a top tier education. Exactly. I agree. I think, yeah, I was a first generation college student and I didn't really have

anyone besides Nalani to really like look up to within our family when it came to like getting their college degrees. I mean, I'm pretty positive all my aunts graduated from college or a few of them, but I was so young at the time that when they did graduate college that I wasn't really, I was probably like really young, like probably still in middle school or high school. And so really my only

role model that I had for like setting that example was Nolani and I will always say that she has always inspired me throughout

my getting my college degree and it made it so much easier that she worked on campus when I was going to college. And so anytime I was having a rough time or needed a revision on like any of my essays, I would go and sit in her office for like hours at a time. But I definitely feel like it was something that pushed me was like being that example for my brothers and showing them that, you know, we are capable for anything we put our minds to and

I definitely would say that they had a big inspiration in me finishing my associate's degree. And right now, I think if I were to continue, I took a break off of from doing my BA because transferring from NWIC, Northwest Indian College to Western Washington University was definitely a culture shock for me. And I had a really hard time adjusting. And so if I do go back for my BA, it will be, you know,

To inspire them to further their education. But I think it mainly this time around will be for me. You didn't you transfer to Western too while they were with you? Yes. Yeah. They were in your household when you applied and all that. I remember. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm happy to say that my brother, my oldest brother,

is enrolled into Northwest Indian College and he's doing his associate's degree he I just remember the day that he came home and showed us his diploma because he went through the same program as me which I went back to I dropped out my high school year my senior year in high school because I experienced a really traumatizing experience of one of my friends um

being murdered at a house party. And so I took that really hard and I ended up dropping out and I didn't get my diploma, which, you know, in my mind, I was going back for my GED. Like I didn't know that you could get your diploma, but I think it was,

Kathy that was at Northwest Indian College that I went to see her to go do my GED and she was like no we do high school diplomas now and I was like what how does that work and it's like basically they get your transcript your transcript from high school see what credits you're missing and have you work in those in those areas and so I was only like I think like five credits shy

from graduating high school. Like I didn't have that much to do and I, you know, it's a something that I look back on and, you know, part of me

you know, regrets it. But then again, I, you know, was able to finish it, finish strong and get my, get my diploma. And they actually did a walk for us at Bellingham technical college. So I got kind of like the experience of like a high school graduation, but my brother ended up doing the same thing and went and got his high school diploma and now has finally enrolled into Northwest Indian college. And it's so crazy. Cause like,

I'm just so proud of him for doing that. Like literally, I felt like a really proud sister in that moment when he's like in the living room and he's at his computer. And it's like I took a picture of him and he like looked at me all crazy. And I was like, what? You're in class. I'm seeing you in class for the first time. I'm proud of you. He just sees me with my camera out like taking a picture. That's me all the time, too.

I was like, my brother is a college student. Oh my God. There's nothing more I want for my brothers to just...

Because whatever they decide to do, I'm proud of them for doing that. And I'm just really happy that my brother took the next step in furthering his education because he was a teenage parent and he dropped out at a young age. And so to see him really getting that motivation and inspiration to go back to school just

makes me feel really good you should be proud and should take part in that too because without your influence in his life like would that have been a pathway that he even knew about

You know what I mean? He may not say it. He may not think he can attribute anything to you or he did it on its own. But without those role models and those examples and those direct pathways that you provided by leading by example, you have a hand in that. So be proud too. Yeah. One day. That's why we're doing it. I'll feel more proud. Right now it's kind of just...

Gotta heal. A lot of healing to do. Yeah. I have my counseling appointment next week. So that's exciting. Your first one? Yeah. You're really going to love therapy. I'm excited. I look forward. I've never been more excited for therapy. I need it. Just like, it's just yapping. Yeah. And I love to yap.

In my situation, I, like, my brothers came from being with both my parents, my mom and my dad. And my mom was a stay-at-home mom, so she took care of them 24-7, and my dad went to work. And so now that they are fully with me, who is a single young woman who also has...

I don't go to school, but I have a full-time job. And I think I dealt a lot with or I deal a lot with gender expectations. And so I was wondering if you guys had felt that in your experiences as well. Yeah, I mean, with me...

I wasn't single and, you know, I had kind of a partner that I had been with for a little bit. We were just like starting out and he really like stepped into like this male figure for them and like a really stern, affirmative, strong voice that they would listen to just because it's that male on male thing.

you know, energy. And so I was really lucky that way. But what I would, I would, if I do have some advice, I think, because I can't really speak to that personally on my own experience, but, you know, we as like indigenous people, we embody both feminine and masculine energy. And it's like this society that has pushed us so far, you know, into one way or the other. And so really like tap into those, like that,

that power of masculinity and like a strong voice, right? You have such a strong and gentle voice that could be like so easy for your brothers to be like walk all over, you know? So just like, you got to show them like the big bear voice sometimes. And you got to tap into that energy, that loud energy, that anti-energy where you're going to like, you know, like try me,

You have to. You have to. I know. I have such a hard time. I can be stern, but I can't. They will just like look at me. I can't see you being stern. And I feel stupid. I'm like...

I'm sorry, but I cannot. Just try me. Just freaking squabble up one time. That's all it takes. Squabble up one time. I just have a hard time because like in my family, it's like it was such extremes. It was either like we were all talking to each other, having a conversation or we were screaming at each other.

so I have a hard time finding that balance because like I don't I don't want to scream at them I don't want to yell at them because nothing that they're doing warrants screaming or yelling so like I'm stuck on the opposite end and I'm just having a hard time finding that like middle ground hell no I'll box it up see you just need to channel your inner Santana your inner Nolani and yep you just gots to

He just gots to, you gotta put on the boxing gloves sometimes. Thankfully we like don't butt heads too much. We haven't come into like too many quarrels. But yeah, I'm anxious for the day. Those are coming in the next three years. 15 to 18 is the one. He's still kind of sweet to me sometimes. Well, I'm thankful I have a little four-year-old girl.

that sounds crazy that sounds so crazy but um I definitely notice uh I take away from like the parenting experience I grew up with and like do notice that I'm going towards that down that path that I don't want to go in but I don't know she's still young she's really young so she can't like communicate back to me like hey I don't like how you're doing this or hey

I don't feel good about that, you know? She's kind of still in her silly phase. So I feel like you definitely have a lot of learning to do still. That's the funnest age for preschool. Because she has so much life ahead of her. She hasn't been...

I don't like to say it, but like, you know, like the more our kids grow up in a traumatic household, the more like baggage we have to carry and the more damaged we are. And so like you right now came at a time where it's like she can have that healthy life from a young age. And she's really lucky. She's a sassy baby.

I think just like going back to what I said earlier about like being put in this spotlight that like allows people to have their opinions about you. Like I feel like I was like looked at like, oh, okay. Like, and I've heard this before. Like if you're going to identify as a sister mom, then you need to like act like it, you know, in like all walks of my life, people were looking at me to be like a perfect example for my younger brothers. And it's like,

I was nowhere near perfect. You know, I'm still no one. No one can be perfect. I'm forever going to be a working project, like growing and healing. Like and if anybody thinks that they're done growing and healing, then that just says a lot about them, you know. And I just feel like that door was kind of

like pushed wide open for people to like have these like expectations of me and when I would let them down like as a as a woman who like stepped into like that caregiving role that like it would just make me feel like really down about myself and question like my capabilities and my just where I was at in my life and I think like as women were like made to like

People expect us to be perfect mothers or perfect sisters, perfect aunties. It's a lot harder for women to make mistakes than men to make mistakes. When women make mistakes, we're held to a higher standard of those gender norms that are put on us. We're shoved in these boxes of being...

only caregivers when at the end of the day we bring so much more to the table than being caregivers and so I think it just like it was really hard to like be in the spotlight for people to like have opinions about you and I've just gotten to the point where like and it's taking me a long time and I feel like I'm still navigating through it but I'm a lot better than where I used to be is like

caring what other people thought about me. But now I'm getting to a point where I'm just like, people are going to think about you. People are going to think what they want about you, regardless of whether you're doing good or bad. And so at the end of the day, I'm just going to try and live my best life. Yeah. I've adopted that mentality as well. I'm like, as long as everyone in the situation is happy, I don't, I don't really care what anyone else has to say. Yeah. To end us out, um,

What is some advice that you would give to somebody coming into a similar situation, taking on a similar role? Don't take no bullshit. No BS. It's okay to cry. Cry your eyes out. You can't fix everything. If you're questioning everything you're doing, it's probably because you actually care because you want to do well and you care about the people

the lives that you're responsible for. Like we're hard on ourselves because we care so much. I mean, we took them in in the first place because we care so much, you know, so like can't be hard on ourselves. Oh, that's a good one. That is a good one. Take care of yourself first, right? Like how are we supposed to take care of others if our heart and our spirit aren't well? That was one of the things.

take care of yourself spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, so that you could be the best for whoever you're caring for. Yeah, I feel like that's one of the most important things. That was something I put off for a really long time just because the situation was so crazy and I felt guilty stepping out of it any time. But yeah, we can't do anything for others if we're not good ourselves.

Step away. If you need to, like, if you're in a heated situation with your little siblings or or Nicole and you need to walk away, let Josh handle it. Right. Do it. Walk away. Just walk away for a moment. Go out for a walk. Go out and do your peaceful whatever it is you meditate, whatever it is that you get your spirit right, your mind right.

walk away come back imagine a heated argument with a four-year-old oh dude it's getting there she's i'll tell her to do something or why she can't do something and she's like why and i'll tell her and she'll be like i don't care and i'm like bro it happens okay like the whole quack with her teacher her teacher didn't put her pants on right and she was like you know quack and i was like i've never talked to her like that i don't know where that came from oh i'm sorry

She's funny. Bro, four-year-olds are something else. They will make you need a time out. I've had to walk away from my Liam and have rich handle situations before because, man, they can get nasty. I brought her home one time, and my best friend was holding her, and we're just eating dinner. And then out of nowhere, she looks at me. She points at me. She's like, she's just quack.

I'm like, Nicole Ming-Ali, bro, what are you doing? Where did this come from? I wasn't even doing nothing. That's why. I was dumb mom the other day because I wouldn't let him have candy. Dumb mom. Yeah, they're mean. Give yourself space. Let Josh handle the drama for a sec. Any advice that comes to your mind, Kix? I was going to say what Nalani said, but my mind's kind of blanking.

I would say definitely don't be afraid to ask for help because I'm kind of closing myself off and I could use a lot of help. That's a good one. I'm going to feel on that one. That's so common in Indian country. There's a reason. Trauma. Like I think I need to take care of everything by myself and realizing that I can't do that. And that's too much for a single person to do.

Just one person. Like, there's times I feel like I won't even ask Josh for help just because I feel bad for putting him in this situation. But he, like, he probably said yes before I said yes to taking her in. He was like, no. Like, he was like, yeah, let's drive to Wenatchee. We'll be here right now. And we did. So I'm definitely grateful for him for stepping up without a second thought. No, that was a good one. Mm.

I know. That was a good one. That's a keeper. Yeah. He's a good one and that was a good one because that's so valid. I feel like I never asked for help from my brothers. Man, I think I would just echo what all of you had said and then just like, I think just knowing that, yeah, don't be too hard on yourself because you're doing the best that you can and you were put in a situation that you didn't ask for and...

Also to just like not take anything from them. Like I said, I kind of experienced a lot of resentment and mental abuse. And, you know, sometimes it's hard to put your foot down, but you have to. You have to let them know that there's ground rules. There's expectations of how you want to be treated. And if they want the same respect, then they need to give it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

That's I wanted to go back where you talked about like we don't ask for help or asking for help. Like if you think about, you know, boarding school experiences and like the people we had to ask for help. There's a reason why like we don't answer the doors or the phones. Right. For numbers we don't know that all stems back way back, bro, from our grandparents, great grandparents. It's because we're guarded and like.

asking for help seems like you're putting a burden on somebody or something. And it's never that. Ask for help. One of my teachers would say, the only stupid question is the one that's not asked. And that just reminded me of that.

Good one. Those are good ones. And then you, Tana, you said at the beginning, don't take BS. And that's so true. And right now you said, you kind of reiterated again. And I think it's like the biggest thing of that is like stand up for yourself, like stand up for yourself. That was like the biggest thing you like touched on is using your voice to take care of yourself too. Yeah.

yeah that was that was something I feel like yeah it was a really strong point don't forget about yourself either self self-love is so unimportant so important within like caregiving roles and if you forget to take care of yourself then you're just not in the good head space to like take care of others kind of just like what what you both said

- It's not doing anybody favors. It's just like, you know, it's almost like the blind leading the blind or trauma leading trauma, right? - Yeah. - Like heal, if we heal, we can help others heal. - Yeah. - Facts. - Facts, I like it. - Straight facts. - Frill, frill. - I think that's why I'm so for therapy lately because I just like, I was so scared of it and against it before.

but the the mentality that I'm trying to go forward with is like just doing the opposite of what I would do before because the way that we lived before was in an unhealthy environment and you can't you can't act healthy in an unhealthy environment and you can't like continue acting unhealthy when you're trying to rebuild that so like I'm just trying to change like the way that the way that I go about things I guess just like

Doing everything the opposite way. I was so scared of therapy, so not for it, but I love it now and I'm trying to model that and I've gotten one of my brothers into therapy. We've got to end the stigma and the negative stigmas that come with what people think of mental health and therapy. What do the big macho white men say? They're like, oh, therapy's for the weak. No, bro, therapy's for the strong. Therapy's for the strong.

Because it takes a lot to work up and get there. We all need help. For real. Well, that was our last question. Is that a wrap? That's a wrap. Thank you all for your answers. Thank you, Nolani, for joining us. Yes. You need to come on like every episode now, I think. No, just a few. If the topic is fitting. This is y'all's. It's beautiful to see you guys working.

the the products coming out so just from the last couple years and recently so yeah honored thank you well thank you all for joining us and we'll catch you on the next episode peace out gang that's what my brother says to me when he leaves the house this episode is produced by hayley ricotta by kiki at curly fairy santana ribang nalani augustin roy alexander and emmy smith

Music by the Lactamish Canoe Family, Dylan Letchworth and Roy Alexander.