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cover of episode Cutting through the climate tech hype and looking for profit

Cutting through the climate tech hype and looking for profit

2024/12/12
logo of podcast Zero: The Climate Race

Zero: The Climate Race

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Eric Toone
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Eric Toone: 就碳移除而言,我们需要更精明的投资策略,区分碳封存和碳作为试剂的市场。目前,碳移除领域存在巨大的不确定性,包括确定性和需求两方面,这使得投资决策非常困难。碳移除技术将是一场成本竞争,不太可能出现单一主导技术。 就电网技术而言,现有线路的改造和电网运行技术的改进都值得关注和投资。电网运行技术改进被忽视,需要更多关注和投资,因为电网是人类建造的最复杂机器之一。 关于核裂变,我们需要将其成本与煤炭等传统能源进行比较,才能评估其竞争力。核裂变技术在成本和技术方面仍面临挑战,需要进一步发展和建设才能评估其最终成本。 地热能技术由于钻探技术的进步,其可扩展性得到提高。太空太阳能技术虽然不再是天方夜谭,但其必要性仍需考量。 核聚变技术由于高温超导材料的进步,其商业化前景得到改善。绿色氢能的商业化进展缓慢,主要受制于电力成本和电解槽成本。低成本电力的出现推动了绿色氢能的发展,但电解槽成本仍然是瓶颈。天然氢的发现为氢能发展带来了新的机遇,但运输和储存仍然是重大挑战。天然氢资源巨大,其发现将彻底改变能源领域。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why is Eric Toone concerned about the current level of investment in carbon removal technologies?

Eric Toone believes that the carbon removal market needs to be bifurcated into sequestration and carbon as a reagent. There are fundamental questions about what constitutes certainty in carbon capture, and society hasn't decided what level of certainty it's willing to pay for. Without this clarity, it's difficult to determine the right investment levels.

Why does Eric Toone think reconductoring existing right-of-ways is a crucial technology for the grid?

Reconductoring existing right-of-ways is crucial because building new transmission lines can take up to 16 years to permit. Reconductoring allows for more power to be moved through existing infrastructure, which is essential as the grid expands to meet the demand for electrification and decarbonization.

Why is nuclear fission still considered a viable option for clean energy, despite its high costs and safety concerns?

Nuclear fission is still considered viable because it can provide baseload power without a green premium, which is essential for meeting the energy demands of the developing world. Newer reactor designs address safety and cost issues, and there is a need for baseload power to complement intermittent renewable sources like wind and solar.

What recent advancements have made nuclear fusion more attractive to investors?

Recent advancements in high-temperature superconducting materials have enabled smaller and more efficient fusion reactors. Fusion also offers significant safety advantages over fission, with products that are radioactive for decades rather than millennia and no risk of runaway reactions. These factors, combined with the potential for cheaper and safer energy, make fusion an attractive investment.

Why is hydrogen considered the 'Swiss army knife of energy,' and what are the challenges in its commercialization?

Hydrogen is considered the 'Swiss army knife of energy' because it can be used for a wide range of applications, from making materials and steel to producing liquid fuels and food. The main challenges in its commercialization include the high cost of production, the need for very low-cost electricity, and the difficulties in transport and storage due to its unique properties, such as embrittling steel pipes.

Chapters
Eric Toone, science lead at Breakthrough Energy Ventures, discusses his experience transitioning from academia to venture capital, focusing on climate technologies. He highlights the challenges of scaling climate technologies compared to software and the importance of profitability.
  • Breakthrough Energy Ventures has invested billions in over 120 climate startups.
  • Scaling climate technologies is harder than scaling software.
  • Profitability is a key consideration in investment decisions.

Shownotes Transcript

On Zero, reporter Akshat Rathi speaks to Eric Toone of Breakthrough Energy Ventures about what’s hype and what’s not in the world of energy startups. Breakthrough is one of the world’s biggest funders of early stage climate technologies and has poured billions of dollars in more than 120 startups. Toone weighs in on everything from carbon removal to  the grid, nuclear fusion, nuclear fission, and green hydrogen. Explore further:

Zero is a production of Bloomberg Green. Our producer is Mythili Rao. Special thanks this week to Sharon Chen, Ethan Steinberg, and Jessica Beck. Thoughts or suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. For more coverage of climate change and solutions, visit https://www.bloomberg.com/green).

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