Ep 499 After the Deal: The Hidden Cost of Generational Wealth
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Hi there, and welcome back to another edition of Built to Sell Radio, the podcast designed to help you punch above your weight in a negotiation to sell your company. I'm the executive producer, Colin Morgan, and today's episode is from our After the Deal series. And this series explores what life is like for founders after they've sold their company, delving into the emotional, financial, and personal challenges and opportunities that come when work becomes a choice and not a requirement.

And today's guest is Alex Bean, who's the co-founder of Divi, sold his company for $2.5 billion. But instead of coasting into early retirement, Alex found himself facing a surprising question. What now? And in this conversation, he opens up about the emotional aftermath of selling, the trap of never enough, and how money, if not handled with intention, can quietly erode the very relationships you built your business to protect. Alex Bean

If you're building towards an exit, this episode gives you a look around the corner so you can avoid the regrets that often follow a big payday. And as you can remember, Alex actually came on a year ago to share his story. So I'll share a link to that episode in the show notes section over at BuiltToSell.com. Without further ado, here's Jon's conversation with Alex Bean. Enjoy. Alex Bean, welcome back to BuiltToSell Radio. Yeah, we're back. Let's go.

We're back. Let's go. And I want to know why you're not on a beach somewhere. You sold your company for two and a half billion dollars. I would have assumed that you weren't interested in talking to me anymore. You'd be off, I don't know, in Bali somewhere. Hey, I've never been there. Maybe I should. Maybe if I went to Bali, I would stay there. But no, it's a question I have thought about and I have...

you know, been asked. And it's like, I did that. I sold the company and we went to a beach somewhere and we had our vacation and it starts to creep on you after a little bit of that where you're like, wait a minute, like,

Why am I feeling not unhappiness, but why am I feeling this loss of joy, this loss of fulfillment, this lack of, you know, I'm missing something. And so it sets you back on this journey of like, wait a minute, what's life about? Because for so long, you're climbing to like climbing what I call money mountain to like try to make money for your family and shelter and food and all the stuff you need. And then when you kind of check that off.

It's like, oh, I'm done. And then you realize that the human body, the human mind, we're wired to not just be done. We're wired to create, to challenge ourselves, to grow. And I just realized that there was no growth and no fulfillment in basically doing hobbies and doing nothing all day. And so I set myself on a journey to figure out what that meant. And we're here now. Okay. So I think some of my listeners would be saying,

Okay. That's nice for Alex because he's got billions of dollars and that's not going to be me anytime soon. Which is also not me, just to be clear. It's not billions, but yeah, keep going. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Which I'm getting there. And again, our listeners, I think would be, again, we run the gamut, but if they had a $2 million, a $5 million, a $10 million exit, they would be thrilled. This would be life-changing on every dimension. So that's the kind of people and obviously all different sizes, but I just want to frame it. Many of them will be way, way less than $2.5 billion. And so I guess one question that I have to ask is like,

And to help contextualize and make sure people feel like they can take your advice with the context within which I think they want it. You know, one way I've talked about this is like, did you walk away from Divi with like,

private jet money effectively that you could buy a private jet that circles the world anytime, any, you know, or are you flying business class? Like, where are you on that range to help us understand? I was on a Southwest flight the other day. Is that your question? Um, so, so look, here's the thing. I, we did do well. I don't want to sit here and say, Oh, we barely scraped by. No, we did great. Um,

But in writing the book and having this conversation and thinking through it, we were talking to all sorts of people from stay-at-home moms, but more realistically, people that had a couple million bucks, 20 million bucks, 50 million bucks. And yeah, we had interviews and conversations with people in the billions. But the concept is, hey, after you've made money to handle your needs, which by the way, for some people is a million bucks and other people it's 5 million bucks or whatever.

And once you've solved that problem or you've gone through that experience, it's like, OK, well, if you went to your job or your factory every day and you were trying to produce money so you can get food and shelter and all the things, opportunity. Well, what if we took money and that was no longer the reason you went to work or the reason you got up in the morning is a motivation to provide these things. But now it's like, wait a minute. What if I use money as my as an input, as a resource to say, well, instead of trying to produce money for my factory, what if I produced good?

What does that good look like? And all I want people to do is to think through that shift of, let's say you built a landscaping business and it's a great little business and it provided for your family and you sell it for a million bucks and you made a good living. And so you're able to like, quote, retire. But it's nothing crazy, right? You live in a nice little neighborhood and you know what not. It's like, OK, awesome. But when you retire, ask yourself, you're no longer waking up now with the sole purpose of like, how do I make money?

Now your question is going to be different. It's like, well, what's the good I want to put on the world? Who can I help? And I want, we created frameworks and conversations around that conversation of like, hey, you

Let's talk about how you can create a factory for good and figure out what your good is and make the world a better place. And yes, there's some money conversations in there for sure. But those are very widespread. And I definitely think they're applicable to anyone who's building a business or an end or I mean, looking at the picture behind you. If you are selling a business, I promise you that this conversation is going to be have something to stick out to you and something for you to glom on and say, wait a minute, I felt that before.

Hey, it's John. Look, if you're building to sell, I want to let you know about a resource you may find helpful. It's called the Value Builder Score, and it will evaluate your company in the same way that acquirers will look at your business.

It'll give you a score on the eight factors that drive the value of your company. You'll also get an estimate of value and things you could do to improve that value over time, whether you want to sell now or in a decade from now. Knowing how the movie ends, I think, puts you in the catbird seat, gives you all kinds of negotiating leverage. So,

It's available exclusively through a Value Builder advisor. So talk to your advisor. If you don't have one yet, you can go to valuebuilder.com slash score. Let us know what industry you're in and we will connect you with an advisor who specializes in companies like yours. Just go to valuebuilder.com slash score.

The book is called Factory for Good, and I would recommend everyone get it. I just refreshed myself with the audio book, and it was great. Really, really, really, really well worth the investment in time. I think one of the principles in the book is this idea that you're on Money Mountain, you're chasing money. In many cases, you're kind of on the lower end of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. It's shelter, it's food, it's like the basics, right? And at some point, you're on the lower end of Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

you kind of reach the top of the mountain where you've got everything you need. And then you have to start to ask yourself, okay, well now what is going to, if it's not money I'm chasing, what is it that is going to bring me purpose? And I'd be curious to know in your view, how do people answer how much is enough? Like what is their, what's the best way for them to answer that question? Yeah.

that it's not enough. So let me give you an example of this. So I remember driving down the freeway right over here, driving down the freeway. I was with my co-founder and we were like, you know, Divi was moving farther along. We hadn't sold, but we, it was like moving towards the direction of like success. So, you know, and he goes, Alex, what's your number? Right. Common question. What would I sell my business for? Right. That is a question. Every business owner is like, what would I sell it for? And they all have a number. So don't lie to yourself. There's a number, right? Okay, cool. And I gave him a number.

And what was the number? I think I said 20. Okay. And I said, that was your cut or that was me. I was like, if I made $20 million, Holy, Holy cow. I wouldn't, that's, that's more than I ever think. And so that was, that was the honest conversation. Well, let's fast forward. So it was like a year and a half later we sell right. For purposes of this conversation, I will just say it was more than that number that that was my cut. Okay.

And what was crazy is you pay your taxes, you know, you make some donations, you handle some stuff and you start to sit there and you're like, but my partner made more than me or that guy has more than me. And, oh man, I wish I had a little bit more. And what's funny is my partner has a lot more than I do. You know what he says?

That person has more than him. And you know what that person said? I've talked to these people. And so there's it's never enough. So it's never enough if you're comparing or if you're thinking like, oh, I need to have X amount of dollars to be happy or to do what I want in life. The answer is like, well, what do you want out of life?

Because, you know, yes, if you're trying to afford a house, yes, there's probably a certain number. But fundamentally, I would just be very careful on like how much is enough because the human spirit's always going to be a little greedy or a little jealous or a little, I wish there could have been more. And so I think you should get off of Money Mountain as if there is a number. And by the way, you remember this from the book, but like one of the reasons I wrote the book

I grew up with a great-grandfather who was an incredible business person and a grandfather who was an incredible business person. They were both incredible business people. The delineation between the two that I try to call out is that my grandpa was five times, ten times better of a business person than my great-grandpa and had all the success, way more than my great-grandpa. But he never stopped chasing Money Mountain because, John, it was never enough.

It was like, well, we can keep making more. We can keep making more. We can keep making more. And I felt like he took his eyes off the prize of what really mattered in some respects of his life, like family, you know, without getting into all that. And it's like, that's the type of thing I want people to think about is like, well, if you're just keep trying to make more and more money, it will never, never be enough.

So you have to align yourself and go through this process of like, well, what do you want with it? What are you really trying to achieve? And be real about what your outcomes are. And then from there, you'd be like, oh, it is enough, whatever that number is. How did you stop?

the comparison game personally? Like, how did you turn that part of your brain off that was always comparing? Still have it today. Like it's, it's, it's like an, uh, it's like an addiction that I'm like, well, I'm not a drug addict, but it's still tempting. Right? Like I, I will tell you, okay, when we sold, I specifically remember having some of these feelings. Um, I don't know. Do you know the, do you know Bible stories at all?

I'm not, no. But I can explain this story because it'll help you just like tell the story because this is what got me over it, right? There's a parable called the parable of the vineyard and people start working at 9 a.m., 10 a.m., 11 a.m., all the way up to 5 p.m. And at the end of the day, everyone goes to the employer and they say, hey, we're ready for pay. And everyone got paid the same. So someone who worked for an hour got paid the same as someone who worked for nine hours. Okay. Yeah.

And what do you think the people from 9:00 AM, how do you think they responded to someone who got paid at 4:00 PM the same amount as them? How do you think they felt? - Yeah, like, wait a minute, maybe I'll just show up at four o'clock next year. - Yeah, I've been slaving away in the hot sun, like I've been working all day, this isn't fair. And the two things, the one thing that sticks out to that for me was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. At the beginning of the day at 9:00 AM

When that person took the job with the employer and said, hey, if I work for you, can you pay me X amount of money? You know, whatever it was, shekels or something, you know, will you pay me X? And they're thinking, oh, I'm going to take this deal every day of the week because I can go feed my family. It's totally fair. I agree with this arrangement. I'm happy. The only reason that they were not happy at 5 p.m. was not because the money changed. It was because other people worked less than they did for the same amount of money.

And I realized I was like, wow, if you'd asked me like in the car ride five years ago, Alex, we started this. What would your number be? And if I said 20 and that number happened, why in the world? Where do I get the nerve to be mad or jealous or frustrated that it's not more? Because at 9 a.m., I was happy.

And the fact that I even got paid more than my 9 a.m., it's like I had to sit down and be like, Alex, stop it. Like, don't compare yourself to your partner or to these other entrepreneurs. Don't, the grass is not greener. Like, you got what you asked for and more so. You should be on your knees grateful. And so, you know, it's not easy. It always crops up. You see someone with a bigger car, nicer car, nicer house, nicer trips, whatever. And that's why Instagram sucks.

But you always have this notion. And so you really just do have to look yourself in the mirror, smack yourself a few times and say, it's enough. Because this is what really matters in my life. And you start to realize it's not the dollar amount in your bank account. It's the relationships you have. And it's the feeling you have as a person. It's your health. And those things, frankly, have nothing to do with money anyways. Money can be a detriment to all those things. And so it's like, yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting...

paradox for sure. Did you fall into the trap of buying any of the stuff that classic entrepreneurs buy the Tesla? I want to be clear. It was not a trap. I'm very happy with the Tesla. It's a very affordable car. I feel great about it. No, but I would say like, okay, so, so the, like black or white, like Tuesday, no, not that much money. And then Wednesday money. Right. So it was very like snap your fingers and it appears.

My wife grew up very poor, like, you know, single mom, six kids, like, you know, that's their world. I grew up in, we'll call it middle class, upper middle class, middle

And so our reactions were totally different. Like when the money came in, I'm like, let's buy a cabin. Let's go on a trip. Let's go. Let's do some stuff. And my wife was like, let's do nothing. Let's let's put the money in a freaking duffel bag and bury it in the ground because she was so worried about, you know, what it would do to our children and what the future looks like and and just change scared her.

And it was funny because I look back and there were mistakes where, you know, you buy a certain thing and then you realize like, wait, what? Like, I'll give you a good example of this, by the way. It's not me. It's someone I know. I was interviewing him for the book. And I asked this question all the time. What's the best thing you did with money? What's the worst thing you did with money? Just tell me your relationship with it. And he goes, you know, what's crazy?

When I was a kid, I always wanted to work hard and be rich. So when I got rich, I bought cars and I have seven Lamborghinis. And I was like, oh, wow, like seven. And he's like, you know, what's crazy is I literally they bring me like zero value.

I don't like them. I don't even see them. He's like, they're in a warehouse. He's like, so I'm in the process of selling them because they bring me nothing. And it's just it took him a long time to realize he thought that's what rich people wanted to do. But as he got more comfortable in his own skin, he's like, no, I'd rather work and I'd rather provide opportunity. And so he has this big scholarship fund for kids in his city that can't afford college. And and it's like, yeah, it's not the Lamborghinis. This is the thing that brings me joy. And that's what I would say is a good factory for good.

But it's that type of stuff. We all fall into it to some degree. I've seen some people incredibly disciplined, but no, I've definitely wandered into the consumer market and made some purchases I'd take back. Yeah. You make the point in the book that

big changes in financial circumstances, like IE, a liquidity event where one day it kind of hits the wire hits and you all of a sudden have more money than you've ever had in your life. It can be very stressful for relationships. And we've heard this a couple of times. I had James Ashford on the show a while ago, UK based entrepreneurial software company. And he said it was fascinating for him because they grew up very modestly and I'm

I'm getting to, I'd love to know your wife's perspective on this or how you and your wife stick out. But they grew up very modestly. And so their kids went to the local school because that was the only school that they could afford to go to, the free one that the state provided. They sold their company and all of a sudden,

they had all these complicated questions to answer. Like, well, where do we send our kids? And all of a sudden it sounds like rich people's problem. But guess what? It's still a problem. That that's the thing. I'm like, look, I'm not asking for sympathy, but what I'm saying is like, okay, I'll give you some very good examples of things that like, it does force a friction on relationships. And I see this all the time. So I'll say some, some of my stories, but I'll tell you from other people that,

Like, what if I told you the American dream is to work hard to build your business and to sell it? What an American dream. Okay. But what if I told you that that very dream, the outcome of money on the outside of that dream ends up becoming the nightmare?

Ends up becoming the reason your family fights. Ends up becoming the reason that like you got a divorce. And it's like people don't realize it. But the reason I'm so passionate about it is I saw this in my own family. I saw money destroy aunts and uncles and grandpas and siblings and cousins and my own family, all of us. Right. Like I saw it tear us apart.

And so when you're like, well, what was me? I'm like, no, I get it. I get that it's the world's smallest violin, but having seen it and having talked to and understand a lot of these people, the thing they care most about is their spouse and their kids, right?

But money can come in. And for example, Megan and I have been married for 15 years when this occurred. We were lockstep on everything. We agreed on everything. And now this came in and we're like, oh, we don't agree on how to handle this. Where to send our kids to school, for example. Should we send them to a private school or should we keep them at the local public school? And it seems like, well, that's an easy decision. It's like, well –

I know you're thinking that, but then when you start to be like, well, I want what's best for my kid. And you're like, well, what's best, a better education or to just, you know, to be with the neighborhood kids. And it becomes this like friction where Megan and I started to like realize, oh shoot, we've got to like figure out what we want to do and how we end up in a good spot. Because Megan's worst fear is having entitled kids that don't know how to live on their own and can't become real adults and are spoiled brats. And I agree with her. That's my like worst fear, right? And then you start to think about

I don't want to call out names, but we'll just say people close to you asking for money and needing the money. And think about this conversation, John. Let's say you don't have any money. And I say, John, I really need help for something super important. I won't use these specific things because it'll call these people. No, but it's like I need money for a roof over my head or for a child who's dying of cancer. It doesn't matter. But you don't have any money. What's your answer?

Hey, man, I'd love to help, but I don't have any money. Oh, man, that really sucks. I wish I could help, but I don't have the money. It's like it's an easy answer. Let's say that they know you have the money. OK, John, I know you have the money. I'm your father. I'm your brother. I'm your son. I'm your best friend. If you don't give me this money, I'm going to lose my home. What's your answer?

Yeah. Now I'm really screwed because I'm casting a judgment on the value of the relationship versus my money. So when you say no, I know that you're saying no. It's not that you don't have the money. I know you have the money. And so then there becomes these like –

And even if you didn't tell the world you had money, they come and they're like, but I know you have money and I need this money. It's very little money to you. And it creates a lot of weird friction and relationship. One guy told me this story. It was fascinating. He goes, look, he goes, Alex, I actually love to give. He's like, I genuinely love to give. But I've gone to so many family events where someone tells a sob story and everyone's looking down the table and just say, well, why aren't you going to write the check?

He goes to a point of like, I can't even go to family events at this point because everyone's just waiting for me to solve their problem. He's like, my mom asked me to buy her a second home. And I had to tell my mom, no. And he's like, it created this really weird thing. He's like, why am I in trouble? Because I said no to your vacation home.

It's like a weird, it's like a mind blowing thing. And he's like, now it's like weird. And his point was, he's like, Alex, without them knowing, I do all these other things for people that never asked for it. And he's like, I love to give, but I was like robbed of the joy of being able to help people because they expected it and they were entitled to it and they're demanding it. And if I didn't give it to them, they got mad at me. And yeah, I've seen a lot of family relationships. I say, I tell people it ruins Thanksgiving dinner quite often, more than you think.

Is there a solve for that? Yes and no. The reason I say that is like it's great, John. Like there's no right answer for how to handle all of these things, right? There are times where you want to help someone out. I could give how I've solved it and what I think is healthy. Yeah, I'd love to know. Yeah, so a lot of times one is like it's not just on me. I usually say, look, like let me talk to –

Megan, and let me talk to my financial team. Like, let's like, can you send us all the material? So at least we can try to have diligence. It's not just on me. So I try to make it more of a team decision thing.

And then, you know, spreading the blame on Megan. I love it. It's her fault. I wouldn't give any of the cash. It's always Megan's fault. The other thing I try to do is I, we, we, you got to write it down. This happens way more than you think, right? Where someone will say, Hey, I actually, I'm not going to out this person, but it's like, we had a verbal agreement. I know what the verbal agreement is. I handed them enough money, like six figures of dollars. And at the end of the day, they were mad at me because I,

I can't even really articulate it because it's like, wait a minute. I got nothing out of this. I gave you...

Six figures in dollars. I got nothing in return and I'm in trouble. I don't understand. But that's the type of entitlement that comes in these in these situations. And I would I do now I write them down. So I have like, you know, I have someone who helps me manage some stuff. And I'm like, hey, this person would like X amount of dollars for a loan or for whatever. And I say, can you handle it? What that means is like, can you write it down? Hey, we're going to give you ten thousand dollars, fifty thousand dollars.

this is what it's for. Even if I'm not expecting it to get paid back, just so it's like, this is what we agreed to. And if you don't pay me back, it's fine. But at least we have it written down. I think that's very, very helpful. Otherwise, what you think you said is not what they heard. And again, it creates like a lot of drama around like, well, that's not, that's not what you said. And now you're going to call a sibling, a friend, a spouse, or, you know, somebody you love and be like, well, hold on. And then it just gets very tough. I'd write it down.

Yeah, I love that advice, by the way. And there's a whole section of the book called The Bank of Mom and Dad, which one of the kind of key principles is like get in writing with your kids because it teaches them and gives them a kind of a bank charter, I think you called it. But these are things we'll fund. This is one of the conditions. That's similar, but different. The idea is with your kids, you know, getting back to the example of my wife growing up and she said, hey, I want to dress for prom.

you know, my mother-in-law, who's an amazing lady, would be like, no, because I can't afford it. Like, next question, easy. And, you know, when my kid asked for a dress for prom, I know I could pay for it.

They know I can pay for it. So now it's like, well, shoot. Yes, I can say no, but you have to start creating frameworks of which like, hey, we want you to be independent. So here's how we're going to help you. Here's when we're not going to help you. Here's when you have some responsibility. And that's a great example. There's not one way to raise a kid to make sure that they're not entitled. But I will say that if you're not writing it down and you don't agree and your spouse doesn't agree and your kid, all three of you have to be on the same page.

to this is at what age you're expected to do what things, and here's what our agreement is. It's extremely helpful to just manage all those conversations and to avoid the friction that comes with children and hopefully to raise them to be independent. How do you avoid looking like a...

transactional business guy with the people you love. Like I'm thinking of, and adults, you know, I've had similar conversations with my kids and maybe prompted by the book and, um,

you know, when I, when I, when I kind of get into the conversation, I feel, oh, I feel so dirty and commercial having this conversation with the people that I'm loving and unconditionally, I do anything for them, but I'm having this, like, these are the things you will pay for. And I, at the end of it, I just feel like, oh man, it's such a, like, I feel like I've taken this relationship that was so pure and divine and made it into some weird transaction. But think about, okay. So I told,

Do you identify with that, first of all? But think about the reverse of that, okay? Because I love you so much, I'll give you whatever you want. Oh, you want – my kids want a Nintendo Switch 2 right now. Oh, yeah, I'll get that for you. Oh, you want to go to dinner tonight? I'll get that for you. Oh, you want dessert? I'll get that for you. Just because I love you doesn't mean I'm going to give you everything because we know where that leads. Ultimately, that leads obviously to dependency, but –

Lots of stuff. We don't need to get into where it leads. I think everyone understands. But it's like, yeah, but that's why as a parent, my job is to not just be your friend. My job is to help prepare you for life. And that means, hey, because I'm your parent, there are some benefits. I can help you get into this school or maybe to share some of the costs of college education or to help you with responsibility for your car when you're 16.

But also because I love you, I need to help prepare you. And I just want you to know why we're doing these things. I'm not just saying no to you because I hate you.

I'm saying no, because I want you to learn how to make money, how to budget, how to save. And I'm going to teach you how to do that. That means I'll spend time with you. I'll help you create a business plan. I'll help execute. Like I'll do all these things that show you how much I love you. But I'm also trying to help you understand and see the vision of like, look, that's what we're marching towards, where you can be your own person and you'll be incredibly proud of yourself when you are your own person. You're not just accepting everything from mom and dad. Because again, at some point, at some point, at some point that breaks and is a disaster. So.

Yeah, I appreciate you going there with me. I want to bring us back in this conversation because some people are listening to this and say like these douchebags talking about having too much money. I get it. This is such an uninteresting conversation for me who's pre-exit, right? And maybe, you know, trying to make payroll and doesn't have all this extra money. At what point is kind of working through some of these questions important for folks? Like at what point of wealth is,

what point of life. Yeah. I do appreciate you saying that. Cause I I've, when I wrote the book, John, I knew that some people would be like, Oh wow. Like cry me a river.

I'm like, no, I get what you're saying. And I actually have all the empathy in the world for that position. Like, not that I've ever been dead broke, but I have been trying to make payroll and all the stresses of the small businesses that aren't working and stuff like that. And I'm like, the reason I'm super passionate about it is because if you're lucky enough to find success.

And to actually get to the other side and to have the money hit the account so you can provide and take that stress off of you. I've also seen it become just that disaster, that nightmare and to tear families apart. And it's like, what a waste. Why?

Why did you spend all that time and effort to go build your dream and to sell it? And it ended up becoming the very thing that destroyed all the things you love. And I've just seen it personally enough where I'm passionate about the subject. So I understand why people feel that way. What I would say to somebody who's building their business, though, is that say, look, yeah, like when you're in the midst of trying to make payroll, it's pretty tough to think about like, oh, how great is it going to be when it all works? But I would ask yourself, it's like, well, the motivation, why are you climbing them out? What's the point of doing all this?

what is there a number you're trying to hit? And if you are, why is it? Cause you want to buy a jet or a car or a house or what? And I think once you start to realize your motivation for it, it takes some of the stress off of like, Oh, I guess I don't need to go make a billion dollars or $500 million or $50 million. But the outcome can be the outcome and that's great. But you're also can be like, Oh, at the end of the day, what matters is that I have purpose and that I have relationships with the people I love and that I have

a legacy, which by the way, it means that you've passed values on to the people that you love and or the community at large. That's a framework of life that everyone can benefit from and can start to think through why am I building this business? To what end? Why do I exist? What good do I want to bring the world? And I think we did a decent job in the book having that discussion. And, you know,

As your business gets bigger, you'll start to start to process the emotional changes that might come into play when money comes. But it's still a conversation. Like, for example, we do a thing, John, I don't know if you've done it, but it's the happiness audit. It's an experience where you write down all the things that make you happy. I love that. We write down, you know, like how happy it makes you and how long the happiness lasts. And then eventually the big banger is you write down how much it costs you.

Because the idea is to really sit down and be like, you know what? Even if you had a billion dollars or a trillion dollars or you had a hundred dollars, I bet if you looked at your top 10 things that make you the most happy, it basically costs you zero dollars. And there is some perspective that comes in that that can de-stress life when you're working, working, working, trying to make it all, you know, trying to make it big to be like, oh, wait a minute. I actually just these are the things that actually make me happy. And it really resets you, like recalibrates you into life and helps you put in the right place.

Yeah, the happiness audit was an amazing sort of exercise. And again, for my listeners, they can do it anytime. They don't have to do it after they sell. You can do it right now. But talking about some of the activities that you do and putting a price and how long does the happiness last, it's a really interesting exercise. I'd be curious, in your case,

I think when you originally did it, I remember tossing the ball with your kid was one of them. It brings you extreme joy, but costs nothing effectively, right? How has your happiness audit evolved since you first did it? You're now on to a new chapter. You've got a new purpose. You've got a new factory for good. How has the things that you put on that list changed over the last, say, 24 months? So it used to be that all of my time was either just...

doing my own hobby, being with my family or working. That was it, right? That's what I did. Now I have a little bit more free time, we'll call it, okay? So I still work, I do venture capital and I come to an office, but like I have more time to miss out on a Friday. What that means is now I can get involved in some causes I wouldn't have had time or money to do,

And there's been a lot of like real joyful, happy moments when you realize like, oh, we can actually make an impact by providing this education or this mentorship or, you know, this eyesight to these people. And that's on my list. That wasn't on my list 24 months ago. So that's been a lot of fun. And I've really enjoyed that. But I've also realized that.

A lot of it's the same, like, you know, still throwing a ball with my son and still, you know, playing tennis with my daughter and, you know, going out to ice cream with my wife. Like that stuff hasn't changed. And again, that's the perspective that helps. And actually, it made me think of a story someone told me. So I had a mentor who was I admired a lot. They were very successful. And I remember talking to him way, way early stages of Demi. And I'm like, what if it doesn't work?

What if Divi like doesn't work and this whole thing just like goes belly up? And he goes, Alex, rich people vacation in Hawaii. If you don't have that much money, you go to California. If you have a little less money, you go to Arizona. And if you have less money, you go camping in the mountains. You know what the difference is?

Nothing. He's like, you're with the people you love doing something you love enjoying the outdoors. He's like, I know it sounds like it's different being in Hawaii in the mountains, but I promise you if you wrote down how happy that trip made you, it mattered who you're with and just being with those people doing the fun things. And that was one of those like, oh, yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So it's not the end of the world if I make X amount of dollars or Y amount of dollars, because what really matters is like I'm with the people I love and I have those relationships and we might go camping or we might go to Hawaii. But at the end of the day, it's still just a great, it's a great time. What would you say to someone who says all this stuff sounds great, Alex, but like I don't want to do it because I don't want to lose my edge.

If I do some of the stuff you're talking about, like figuring out my purpose and like other things that are more important than money, like I'm not going to be as good an entrepreneur. Fair. Yeah. So I would say, great. Why are you doing it? Right. By the way, let me let me let me be more specific. The guy I said earlier who had the seven Lamborghinis, he still works. Right. Obviously, he doesn't need to. He's got plenty of money.

Is he working to get a private jet? No, he's working because he's got this educational scholarship fund that he and his wife and his kids are engaged in. And he's like, the more money I make, the more kids I can send to college. And so he has this this factory that's printing out scholarships for kids that are coming out of trailer homes and they're ending up at Harvard. He's like, I'm changing their entire not not him solely, but I think I'm giving them a platform for these people to go from trailer homes to doctors from Harvard.

That is the most motivating thing I've had in my life in the last 10, 15 years. So I like to work harder because I want that. I want more people. I want to not send 10. I want to send 100. And so for him, it's given him more motivation to figure out like, oh, no, this is why I exist. This is what I'm going to do. And I can do this for another 20, 30 years. Whereas other people, I look back at like my grandpa. And again, I think my grandpa was an amazing person and very, very successful and charming and all these things.

I think that he just kept saying, I know how to make money, so I'm just going to keep making money. When they say money is the root of all evil, I disagree with the statement, but I understand the concept. Money itself means nothing. It's literally a digit or it's paper. But what you're utilizing that money for, that says everything I need to know about you. So are you just spending it on yourself or are you spending it on yourself?

making the world a better place? And are you allowing yourself the freedom and time to go do it? So if you're like, hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I still want to have my edge. I'm like, great. Go make as much money as you want. Go make a freaking trillion. Go beat Elon Musk. Great. But why are you doing that? Are you doing it because you want to have more money? And what do you think that's going to bring you? Because if you think that the more money is going to bring you more happiness...

Then that I would say that edge is not sustainable, that you will realize at some point and you will have a come to Jesus moment at that point of like, oh, shoot.

This isn't bringing me the happiness or it didn't bring me the happiness I thought it was going to bring. And you're going to have to process and recalibrate to a spot where it's like, oh, this is what matters. And so and by the way, in the process of building that great company, don't lose the things that matter. I would say, look, you know, it's the saddest thing I've seen. The wealthy person on their private jet by themselves, I promise you, is very sad.

It's very depressing because they don't, their kids don't talk to them or they're not married anymore. And you might think that, oh, but they have a jet. I'm like, I'm telling you, I've looked into their eyes. I know how they feel. They would do it all over again and they would do it differently and they wouldn't have sold their family for their success. Yeah.

Let's talk a little bit about the four stages of getting off Money Mountain, because a lot of our listeners will go through a liquidity event in the next few years, right? So that's why they listen to the show. They're either in the throes of selling their business or they're planning to sell their business. But in the next couple of years, they're going to go through this big, big change of life, right? And in the book, you articulate four things.

Pretty predictable steps they're going to go through. Can you just kind of walk us through how the movie ends? Phase one is honeymoon. It might last an hour. It might last a year. I have no clue, but you're going to love it. You will be excited. It is fun. Like you're going to feel a stress come off your back. I love it. Honeymoon. At some point, stage two creeps in and that's loss. It might be loss of identity. It might be loss of structure. It might be loss of motivation. It might be loss of friends. Like I'll give you an example. When I stopped going into Divvy,

I was like, wait a minute. I love going into work. I had like 20 friends. I love seeing every day. I don't see these people every day. That's itself was like its own like, wait a minute. I lost that. You know, and then identity. I was the Divi co-founder and I'm the Divi guy. And, you know, everyone worships you because, you know, they're your employees and whatnot. Yeah.

And then you leave and you're like, oh, yeah, I'm not that anymore. No, like no one cares. Right. Like and so you will feel loss. And I don't know how that loss will express itself to you, but you will feel loss and you'll start to be like, wait a minute. Why am I feeling loss? Because when you think you're at the top of the mountain, you're going to it's going to be weird when you're like, why am I not feeling like I'm at the top of the mountain? So honeymoon loss. The third stage is experimenting, experimenting.

And for me, I did all sorts of weird stuff. As I said in the book, like I started playing piano. I started I did magic lessons like sleight of hand. I even have a deck of cards right here. And, you know, I started doing that and I realized like, oh, this is fun. But this isn't purposeful. It's not like a challenge. I'm not going to bed thinking, how is this contributing to my family or the world? So you start to experiment and you might try nonprofits. You might try another business. You might try hobbies. It doesn't matter. You're going to experiment.

And they won't work. And that's okay. And I think the thing I would tell someone is like, just keep trying, keep testing stuff out, let it let the process play itself out. But eventually, you're going to want to reinvent yourself, which is stage four, which is like, okay, what's that next mountain you need to climb?

That gives you purpose, that gives you like that thought in the shower on the way in driving in the morning, like, all right, I'm going to go build this. I'm going to get excited. I think I can do this. I think I can achieve why. And once you start to reinvent yourself, you'll feel it. And because you're going to you're going to feel that purpose come back in your life. You're going to be like, all right, this is who I am. This is what I'm building. This is my new identity. So for me, like this factory for good has been a super fun experience.

reinvention. It's not going to last forever. I'm going to go back to another, hopefully another honeymoon and then have to redo it again. But it's those four stages from honeymoon loss, experimenting to reinvention. If you had someone in front of you that's about to go through those four stages, what advice would you give them? I would say it's funny because people don't realize the emotional toll that this will take.

They're thinking it's all about the money. I get the money in the bank and we're good. And I'm like, I hear you, but I've, I felt it. I've talked to hundreds of people. It's going to happen. It's going to be more emotional than you think. You're gonna have to process stuff you've never felt before. And that's totally normal and totally acceptable. Let it happen. Don't rush it. Don't try to speed through the four phases. Just let it happen. Feel it out. Take your time and try to ultimately come out on the other side to be in a better spot. But like,

It's the grieving stages. Like it's going to happen. Just don't try to force it. Let it come upon you and try to take it with some proactive elements and try to get out to the other side.

What advice would you give someone who is thinking of starting another company? They're like, I'm a business guy. I did it once. I've gone through all. I did the piano lessons. I'm good. I'm going to go start another business. Me. Yeah, I did. I started another business, a venture capital firm. I totally get it. I realized actually, John, I don't I love helping people.

But I don't like nonprofits. And that's kind of a weird, like, I just realized my, I just didn't fit in the nonprofit world. I didn't feel comfortable in it. I didn't enjoy it. So to me, it was like, well, I thought about doing that, but that wasn't my gig. I enjoy making money. I enjoy building businesses. I enjoy, you know, that, that side of things. And I was like, oh yeah, that's totally, I got to a spot. I was like, oh, I'm comfortable in my skin saying it's okay to go build more businesses. Let's do it.

But the factory for good structures helped me realize why I'm doing that. And so I can siphon off some of the money or profits that are coming and put it towards causes that I care about and let other people and nonprofits execute that. And that...

I would say, great, go start another business. I would tell them not to rush into it. I'd probably tell them to say like, go breathe, go sit on a beach for a second, go make sure that you've like de-stressed, that your relationships are good, that you're in a good foundation before you get back into it. But I would not shame anyone and say, don't like, I think it's great. Go do it again.

Hold on. Let me try to square something that appears to be a contradiction, but I'm sure it's not. And I'd love to just- I'm sure it is. When I think of venture capital, I think of almost the opposite of what you're talking about. So when I think of venture capital, I think of very ambitious,

uh, business owners being funded with the sole purpose of achieving an exit that the, the business is, you know, once the investors put the money in the sole purpose of putting the money in is to get a return. So I feel like that's such a contradiction to some of the things we've been talking about. Help me square that circle. Yeah. That's a great question. I, I, um,

My answer to that would be like, well, hold on. Like, let's go back to this. Am I happy that I built Divi and had success? And I would say like, no, I'm infinitely grateful for the experience and for the outcome. I think we built a product people wanted. So like the world's a slightly better place because we built it. And, you know, in exchange, I got some money and that's all great. Like I would say, so that experience for me was life changing in many respects, not just the money and the people I met and what I taught myself and the experiences I went through.

I started Venture because I was like, hey, I want to help out another 10, 20, 30 founders go through that journey. And if I can give them my playbook, if I can give them advice, if I can be an ear, whatever I can do to help them, if I can give them capital to go have that experience, I would do it every time. Because again, I loved my journey and was grateful for the whole experience. Now,

My job as a venture capital is to get a return. Right. So like there is some decisions and stuff where you have to pass on certain people. It doesn't mean we're not a charity, but that doesn't mean that we don't roll up our sleeves and really try to help our founders. And I just enjoy that process. So that's why I do venture capital. And frankly, a lot of our LPs are like my friends and they're people that I said, look, I'm the first money in.

I will do everything in my power to get my money out with your money out and get a good return. We actually told people, if we don't double your money, I'm not getting paid. So I'm just saying, hey, this is a long term bet where I might freaking not get paid any money. And that sucks. That's on me. But that's OK, because I'm I'm trying to make it a win for the entrepreneurs, a win for our investors. And hopefully at the end of the day, if I've done that successfully, it could be a win for me.

That's how the venture sets up. But I would also go into it like, no, no, no. I think like creating businesses is one of the coolest things on the planet because you're creating a product that people want because otherwise they won't buy it and it doesn't exist. You're creating jobs. Like I look at Divi and when we started, if you'd said, what's your goal at Divi? I would not have told you 25 million. I would have said my goal is to have a building. I said this to my partner. I said, my goal is to have a building along the freeway.

with our name on it and a thousand people in our building that are joining us in our journey to build something special for the world. Now, okay, awesome. That money's going to come, but you look at that and you're like a thousand people. That means there's a thousand homes in our area that are being paid. Their mortgage is being paid because we are employing them.

And you start to be like, oh, my gosh, like there's kids. Like how many kids are being impacted and how many homes are being created? And so that to me, that's America. That's capitalism. And so to me, there's a lot of benefit in go create that company, make it positive for your employees, give them good opportunities. You know, if you're able to create – we created 40 millionaires from Divi. Really? Yeah.

That's life-changing stuff. Their kids, kids, kids are going to be impacted by that. That's awesome stuff. So I'm proud of that stuff. So I don't want to sit here and say capitalism is bad and all that because I definitely don't believe that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you brought up –

The number of millionaires you've made out of Divvy, it's an incredible number. One of the things that we hear a lot is the aspiration to create generational wealth. And the term actually kind of makes my stomach turn, to be honest with you. I find it to be...

just really, really stomach turning. But the number of times I've heard on this show, quote, yeah, I made generational wealth. In other words, my kids and my kids' kids will never have to work. But think about what they're saying. I know, it just makes my stomach turn. Let me tell you this. We joke in our family, my siblings and I, we joke about the concept of like, you know what's the greatest blessing in our life?

is that we inherited no money. Okay. So my grandpa was very, very, very successful and like no bones about it. Not like, Oh, no, no, no. Very, very successful. Won't go into why, but ultimately like other people got the money. Not my dad. We'll just put it. We'll just keep it there. Not my dad or some of his other siblings. It was very, very little. And ultimately we inherited nothing of that. So when you look at the numbers that they were dealing with and ultimately what came to my dad, you could sit here and you can play the victim and say like, we didn't inherit the money.

Like what a crock. What a shame. But we look at it and we're like, wow. I mean, I guess it would have been a lot easier, but what a privilege to have the pride of like, we built something on our own with our own hands and our own ingenuity and our own hard work and luck and all this stuff. But like,

When someone says my generational wealth and they won't have to work, I'm like, that is the worst mentality. You want your kids to want to work and to want to build and to want to create. And you might open up a door or two. But if your thought process is like my kids won't have to work, it's like you're setting them up.

honestly, for unhappiness that I can go into a lot of it. There's a reason you get to that outcome, but so many of those people just aren't fulfilled because they don't have to work. And therefore they never find purpose and they never find skills and they never have to go through the challenges that push them to their breaking point that make them who they are. And it's really sad. I hate the mentality as well. And that's why it's this really hard notion of telling your kids no and not just giving them all the money you had. I would raise my hand and say, they shouldn't get all the money you have. You should

They should have to go build their own stuff. And we've gone through that in our family. And sometimes you wish that you did get the money. But for the most part, we look back, we're like, wow, really grateful that we had to go do it on our own.

I think that's a great way to a great moment. And this round two, Alex, I really enjoyed this conversation. I think, uh, you're an inspiration for a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of people. Uh, so that's fantastic. The book is called factory for good. If people want to reach out for you to you, what's the best way for folks to say hi on social media? Yeah. I, you know, I'm not really super active on, I would call myself a lurker on social media, but I would say I'm on LinkedIn, hit me up on LinkedIn. Um,

And then go to factoryforgood.com. We've got newsletters. We've got these happiness audit experiences, the bank of mom and dad. There's a lot of stuff that even if you're in the midst of building and you haven't sold, come and do some of these experiences. And we'd love to hear from you and have that conversation. So factoryforgood.com is the best place to go. Amazing. And we will put Factory for Good, Alex's LinkedIn profile, along with his venture capital firm links all in the show notes at builttosell.com. Alex, thanks for doing that. Hey, thank you.

And there you have it for today's conversation between Alex and John. If you enjoyed today's podcast, be sure to hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to today's show.

And as a reminder, you can watch this full video interview over our YouTube channel at Built to Sell. For show notes, including links to everything referenced in today's podcast, including the first episode Alex did with us last year, you can visit his episode page, which you're going to be able to find over at BuiltToSell.com. Also, if you know someone who would be a great fit to be a guest right here on the podcast, you can nominate them. Head over to BuiltToSell.com slash nominate or email me at Colin at BuiltToSell.com.

Where there you're gonna have a chance to nominate yourself or someone else to be a guest right here on the show with John. Special thanks to Dennis Labateglia for handling today's audio engineering and to our community of certified value builders who help us bring our message to you. Our advisors are experts in helping you build the value of your company. To get in touch with an advisor or learn how to become one yourself, head over to valuebuilder.com. I'm Colin Morgan, and I look forward to talking to you again next week.