#26. Santron Freeman: Good Vibrations
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What's up, everyone? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. You can almost reach us at thehonestdrink at gmail.com. And if you've been enjoying this podcast, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe. Now, our guest today is a real special human being. He has many things, and among them, he is a healer, fitness trainer, entrepreneur, co-founder of Empowerhouse, and an extremely accomplished dancer.

And when I say accomplished dancer, he has danced and worked with people like Mariah Carey, Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Kelly Rowland, Rihanna. And yes, I'm name dropping, but that's real folks. It's a very impressive list.

This man is passionate about setting the example of how being truly in tune with yourself and combining the right mindset can heal and empower you. Call it what you will, but we often lose sight of the spiritual aspects of health and fitness. But this man is here to remind us that it can be every bit as important as the physical exercise we do.

we do. He also shares with us some very personal stories and we get to reflect on some of the early trauma that he experienced growing up. And he also explains how we can all reflect on our past trauma to shape ourselves in a better way. So without further ado, please welcome Santron Freeman.

All right. All right. We're on. We're on. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. What are we drinking today, Howie? Abalor 12.

Highland single malt scotch whiskey double cask matured 12 years is that how you actually pronounce the name or we're just making that up I'm making it up. Yeah, but I think so Abel or I mean I'm using common sense to read. Oh, this is nice This hits you afterwards there's really I think it's really a very no it's smooth It is smooth, but it's a very unique taste. Mm-hmm right after I can't describe it almost a sort of bitterness. Oh

But a pleasant bitterness. Oh, I don't get the bitterness. You get bitterness? I get a little bit of bitterness. What say you, Santron? I say it's like a... There's like a bitter, but that's not the right word I want to use. It's... Like oaky? Yes. Very, very wood. Yeah, very wood. Very wood. Like very. And that's what's creating like the bitter taste. Yes. Yes. I agree with that. I'm trying to go with you right now about the whole bitter thing because I don't get the bitter. But I know what you're talking about. There is a sharp taste to it. Yeah.

It hits you like a few seconds after, you know what I'm saying? You don't get it right away. But I think it's really smooth. It's actually pretty nice. It is a nice one. It's warm. So let's introduce our guest, Justin. Santron. Hey. Thanks for being here, man. My pleasure. Thanks for having me here. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you. So look, we get a lot of fitness people around on our show. We've interviewed a few and even on our own, we've had a few episodes where we talk about

you know, fitness, health, nutrition, general well-being. But it seems to me, what little I know about you, it seems to me that you come at it from a very different perspective in a different way. You're kind of very outside the box.

I mean, obviously, you're a very accomplished dancer. You performed with people like Beyonce, Kelly Rowland, Mariah Carey, Rihanna. I mean, the list goes on and on. And you do what is called an intuitive energetic healer. So I guess, can you introduce yourself and in your own words, kind of just describe a little bit about what it is exactly you do? Yeah.

Um, so yes, I'm Santron. Hey, hi, hey. Um, the most important thing I do is heal myself. Um, that means I go in and listen to what my body is saying. And that means I sit with myself. That means I'm breathing in and really just taking a moment to like,

hear what's happening. Now, it's always an internal dialogue and not just like the voice, but the feeling. And so I'm listening for the feeling throughout my body and seeing what what's happening. How does it feel? And is that the outcome that I'm looking for? Is that is that feeling going to match what I want to experience in my outer world? And that's something you can do throughout the entire body.

We have learned to hold on to emotion and that stored emotion over time, it accumulates and then it becomes something more dense, like I said. And that's when it turns into a growth of some sort. That's when it turns into sickness. That's when it turns into dis-ease. And so my job is to, you know, scan my body and hear, listen into my voice and just tune in.

you know, check in with myself and it's something, you know, meditation is a, is a nice ground floor of just checking in, breathing, being with yourself. And then once we're connected, that's when we can ask and use intuition to guide us into what needs to be loved on the most. Um, and that comes with just practicing it like anything else. You know, there's no one person in the world to me that can do it better or more. It's just a matter of you putting it to work, putting it to use, um,

We learned to walk. We learned to speak. We learned to do many things. And it's just because we kept doing it. So the more we listen to that voice, the more we'll always know which way to go. And I use that same approach to guide people in fitness.

When the mind is clear when the mind is connected You're gonna approach fitness a bit different your body's gonna respond a bit different and so Instead of rushing off of the street and the train because you're late you want to get to the class You're actually working yourself up to then take that stress and put it on the bike or put it and you know into the weights or And it's good to get it out. Yes, I

But if I can go into it with a more stable mindset, a more balanced mindset, then my body is going to respond that way and my workout is going to be that much more effective. So maybe I don't have to punish myself. I don't have to punish my body. Maybe I can actually enjoy my session. Maybe I can actually enjoy my body. Maybe I can enjoy the music. So that's overall what I do. I do that with clients. I do that with groups, you know, um,

I'm a group fitness. And that's actually what brought me here to Shanghai is opening a place called Empower House. And, you know, we kept looking for names and just building the brand. And all of it was rooted in the empowerment of you. You know, how do you activate your healing? How do you activate your happiness? How do you activate whatever it is that it is you want to create? You know, oftentimes we look for a teacher or a healer or a doctor to fix and heal us and make us feel great.

a loved one, a partner, husband, wife, whomever. And it just isn't the case. Maybe if I see you, I'll see a mirror of my happiness. Maybe if I see you, I might see a mirror of my anger too. And that's okay. But,

I'm responsible for my feelings always. Like we're always looking outwardly for, for the solution when it's, when you're saying it's internal and it's always internal. And we hear it and we hear it and we see it and we, but the truth is we know it though. We actually do know it. We have learned, we've been trained yet to look outwardly for sure. But,

The more we experience on our own, the more we realize it was me that decided to respond that way. It was me that decided to react this way. It was me that perceived a certain thing that way. That's very interesting because even in previous episodes, we talked about whenever we talked about fitness and health in general,

you know traditionally a lot of people just only gravitate gravitate towards the physical side of it working out running eating healthy these things which are all important of course but they get so fixated on just a physical aspect we kind of oftentimes forget about the entire mental aspect which is arguably even more important sometimes right than the physical so so am i accurate in saying like what you're doing is just kind of more focusing on that mental aspect um

Um, the lifestyle itself. So, uh, the tools that we mentioned in class, you know, and, and class being we're on a bike, right? We're riding to rhythm and it is something where you get to strengthen your mind. You get to strengthen your entire body, your full body. And so while we're on the bike, we're also working the core section, we're working the arms. And so we do that in different ways.

But the main thing is riding together into rhythm because it's more powerful. You feel more connected to being in the moment. And that rhythm, that music, it just gets into your bones, into your veins, and it just makes you want to move. And so it also brings you into a state of just being in the moment. And when we're in the moment, that's where the answers are. You know, what you were just saying about, you know, focusing on the present and even, you know, answering questions of...

of your path and clarity and whatnot. I mean, is that what the majority of the people who have signed up for this, that's what they're seeking? Or are they seeking more on a physical change?

I'm trying to understand this. So whoever's listening or who's interested, they can maybe understand what makes you different from, let's say, SoulCycle or some other place. Absolutely. So that's where we get into the intention, right? So whether you came in for the physical change, because that's going to happen, it's inevitable. But some people still, they will show up, they'll take all the actions, they'll do the work.

And for some reason they still are holding on to weight. They're still holding on to that, that, you know, the, the, the heaviness. And it's like, well, why is that? And it's simply because that's why I get into the mind because when the mind is safe, when the mind is open, when the mind is happy, when the mind is free, then the body follows that. And so that's why I tap into the mind. And I believe that's why people keep coming back because that's where we, that's the root of it, you know, for me and my experience. And so it,

If you're coming to, you know, people that come to lose weight, that's it's going to happen. And that's just one of the byproducts. But the deeper thing is, it's not just fitness. It's not just, you know, a place where we burn calories. We actually get to feel good. You know, we actually get to walk out feeling a bit more empowered than we did before we walked in. And so that's really the premise. And I think that's why people come back, why people show up again, that that's up to everyone's own individual path, you know,

lose weight, come with a friend. So the person that they see on that stage is hot. Like everyone has their own thing. You know, what gets you in the door is, Hey, whatever that is. And so we do pushes against resistance. We do sprints and all these things we might expect, you know, in a normal sprint class. But the underlying thing, the difference is I need to ask you what your reason for pushing is. What is your reason? Because I don't want you to do it just because I said it.

I want you to know what's making you drive yourself forward. And once you know what that is, you won't need me or someone from the outside to tell you when to move. You won't need me or someone from the outside to tell you good job because you've already done that. And then that support, the right people show up beside you. And it just is a community of people who get stuff done and feel amazing about it.

Is this, I almost feel like it might be something like a cycling version of guided meditation. Yeah, I was exactly about to say that. Like you're coaching them through not only the physical workout of spinning and cycling, but you're kind of coaching them through meditative states. And it's on them to decide what state they want to go in. That's it.

Okay. That's pretty interesting. I think that's... I can see the appeal of that. Because I've been in spin class before, and from my experience, it's pretty general. Like, you can do it, push it. Yeah. It's really... You got this. You got this. Feel the burn. Yeah, yeah. But I think... And plus knowing you and...

And, you know, knowing where you're coming from. If you were leading a class, I can definitely assume that it's not going to be so empty. It's definitely going to be a lot more...

I'm sure what you're doing is allowing people to become even more introspective and having that discovery through physical activity and community to find your clarity, right? And obviously you need the shepherd to kind of guide you through this journey, right? And each class is just one leg of the journey. That's it. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to like...

regurgitate what I'm getting from this. Which I think is interesting because it's... I mean, for us, Justin mentioned it before, one topic that we tend to always go back on because we're all believers in it is mindset and how to positively...

change your life in a way, and that comes through mindset. And obviously there are some certain specific ways to do it that many people may share, whether it's building habits or whatever. But I think what you're doing with cycling is an interesting way to also utilize physical activity

with that mindset, you know, and combining it together. I think it's good. Thank you. And I'll share just really quickly why that's something that I wanted to do in terms of combining the mental aspect with the physical aspect. I wanted to ask you that. Yeah. So, like, you know, I was a dancer, was, I guess, am always. I was a mover. And for me, that was a form of communication and expression when I didn't know how to use my words.

That was a time where my vocal ability was shut down from trauma as a kid, abuse at home, and I wasn't allowed to speak my mind. I wasn't allowed to get it out verbally. So what does that mean, you were not allowed? You physically...

Did not talk. I would not express how I felt because I was told to keep it to myself. Oh, okay. So you kept a lot of things to yourself. So you felt it was wrong to express how you felt. I did not feel like I was wrong, but I knew I would be in trouble if I... So it was out of fear. Yes, it was out of fear. So I was fearful of being expressive. Got it. And that's something that I had to obviously... The thing about energy is it's going to express itself one way or the other.

And so while I didn't express it verbally, I expressed it through movement. And so that became me dancing. That became me listening to music and feeling it and moving my body. So that was a language that I developed. And it is a language. Body language is a big one. And the more we tune into it, we hear a lot more than we do when we're speaking to each other.

And so energy, emotion, that emotion me expressing became louder, more powerful. And I would take a lot of meditation classes and I would, you know, you know, experience some some good things. And we would just sit still. And that's good because a lot of people are just so busy, so busy, so busy. So sometimes we need to sit still.

But what I realize is the thing that moves energy, the thing that really gets us to shift not just internally, but our experience here on the outside is feeling, feeling something. And for me, if I, if my body, if I know that my body holds memory because it does, you

you know, we're made of water and so many other things. And so we, science has already proven how, you know, memory can be stored into water and we are made of water. It's in the body. So emotions get stuck. Sometimes old things get stuck. And so we have to learn to get it out and express it and release it. And so that's why I wanted to move more into, you know, how, how does movement, uh,

And then mindfulness, how do they mesh into something that is powerful and effective and allow me to move through what once was crippling for me? Can I ask you something? So I even want to take another step back. What got you into meditation? What got you even into it? I know you're saying you felt a little bit censored growing up. You didn't want to express yourself. But I mean, most people just live life like that, right? But what made you actually seek out ways to...

Express yourself. There's got to be a catalyst. Earlier, I talked about how energy is going to express itself one way or the other. And for me, I didn't... And I also mentioned how we don't know how powerful we are until we have to use it. And so...

I can talk about, you know, what happened as a kid and the trauma and the abuse and all the different things. And I can talk about, you know, my mother passing away at a really young age. My younger brother with autism was 13. My sister was 11. And I was 22 at that time. And I was moving to New York, actually, from Washington, D.C. Yeah, from Washington, D.C. to start my career in the arts. And she

She, the month I was moving to New York is when she passed out of nowhere. She was 43. Wow. Heart disease. Yeah. And I, I didn't know, uh, you know what, like it was like, huh? You know, she's young, she's active. Um, she was actually finishing her degree in university. She was, she was living. And then she wasn't in terms of the physical reality that I knew her. And that allowed me to one, be frozen, one, be in shock, uh,

And then I had to start picking up pieces because she had actually had a conversation with me a week before. Um, and I didn't know, you know, why she brought it up, but she said, I want to talk to you about my will. And I want to tell you what I want when that, when that time comes. And I say, okay, that's wonderful. But you know, I don't really want to talk about those things right now. And she says, well, we need to. And so, uh, while she didn't have the conversation with anyone else, uh, I knew that now I, you know,

hindsight, I know that she knew what was coming. And so she, it happened, you know, and when tragedy, when trauma happens, you, I mean, we respond in many different ways. It's grief processes, many different layers to that.

And so for me at that time, I knew church, I knew religion, I knew Christianity. That's what I knew. And that was a tool as all of it is a tool. And for me, there's no one right or wrong way. There's a tool based on where you are in the world, based on what you're exposed to. We're all given different tools and different resources to cope, to heal, to grow. And that was my tool at the time. So I learned to pray. I learned to

open myself up to there has to be something greater. There has to be a better way than just me, you know, this being an ending and my life no longer being the same. My mother and I were very, very, very close and not just as mother and son, but a really, really good friendship.

And that was something that felt like it was ripped from me. And I would obviously go through many holidays and many birthdays and many other things, Mother's Days, just with a feeling of lack, with a feeling of loss. And when I feel that in my body, that's obviously transmitting toxins now in my body, so I don't feel good. I'm unhealthy. And so it was a need.

Um, meditation found me because I realized, um,

You know, while prayer is definitely a powerful thing that I've experienced, I can't speak for anyone else anywhere in the world. But I know that there are things I've spoken and I know that I've spoken them for on behalf of other people that I love. And those people didn't know what I spoke. And then I will get a phone call from that person saying, hey, I know that in general you've been praying for me, but I want you to know that yesterday was the best I felt in months. And they didn't know that I prayed for them the night before that.

Because it could be a coincidence. Sure, it could be. But I just have seen it too many times to know better than that.

Um, and for me, it wasn't just about the prayer. It was the intention. It was a feeling. And so the more I, you know, experienced that and I wanted to open my lens to more than just religion, I wanted to open up to what, what does it mean to be a human being? Uh, what are all the different ways that people get to that state of being? Um, you know, as you change internally, then your outer world changes. And I kept meeting, I started meeting people and

you know, experiencing a church in LA, even that introduced me to the mindfulness aspect and kind of fusing the two together, you know, religion and meditation. And to me, it's, it's all connected. It's all, it's all in there one way or the other. And for me, meditation was how do I, you know, clear my mind? How do I just be in the moment? And that's, as I started asking for other tools and just what I knew, um,

it found me and so you know that's why i've really come to know that i don't have to search for it i just have to start feeling into it and knowing that this is something i'm ready for and somehow it comes some some person comes um you know even being here with youtube like i literally have been asking for a place to share and and be myself and be heard you know in this way because i do know that there are tools that i've learned that work for me and work for my clients

And it's time to get it out You can't hold on to these things You have to share it And so I'm grateful to both of you For having me here Thank you Yeah, definitely I mean, thank you for coming Grateful to have you here But is there Because there's a lot of beliefs out there, right? And if we talk about religion In terms of the traditional forms of religion Obviously, you know, there's a bunch Is there a name for this kind of belief That you have or what you practice? You know, everything you're talking about Is there a term for it?

Or is there a name that goes by? I mean, name? I don't think so. I think it's more of a, literally for me, balance means what do I need right now? What tool do I need right now?

Because we, you know, I thought balance meant I need to govern all these things at the same time and I got to like have my hands on everything at the same time and balance it out. And while in part maybe there's an essence of that, it's more of what do I need to focus on right now? What tool do I need right now? You know, what's happening right now? And so

I will pull from this. I'll pull from that. I'll pull from this. If it feels right internally and I know that it's making me feel more empowered, it's helpful to me and then other people, then I know that it's something I want to use. So I don't really see it as just one thing. I think there are gifts in all of it. So you don't bind yourself to any particular religious belief or anything like that, right? No, and just...

I respect it because it was a tool that I needed for sure at a time. And I just feel like there's more because there's so many of us out here in the world. And I can't condemn any one group or another based on any of that stuff. So I feel like we all have a heartbeat. We all are connected together and we're all connected to whatever it was that created us, whatever, however we want to see that. And the thing that binds us is that thing we call, I'll call it love.

I'll call it love. But what I really want to call it is it's more it's something that really a word can't you can't really describe it. It's more of a feeling. It's that thing that when I come here and I don't speak Mandarin and I look at another person who doesn't speak English, you know, we lock eyes and we are able to see each other and appreciate each other.

And so it's, it's that language that, you know, no words can really describe. And that's what I, that's what I like to listen to and connect with. And, um, that's why I like movement. That's why I like, uh, dance, all of that music, all that brings it out. Those are the languages I like to listen to and,

Um, yeah, the, as long as for me and whatever people are practicing for me, as long as you're not feeling limited, as long as it's not inhibiting in any way and you feel like you're open and you're accepted and you're appreciated and you're loved and you're growing and you're contributing, uh, then for me, then I high five it. And we're all, we're all, again, we're all where we are in life and there's something to be learned in all of it. So, you know, if you're in a certain space with religion, then use it.

So question, I mean, how long has it been for you? Because you started off just like you said, you're healing yourself, listening to yourself. So how long has it been where you've been kind of, you've been more outward with it, aiding other people, helping other people? How long has that been for? Funny. Well, the reason I'm thinking about that is because I've actually always been that way.

I've always been, when I was in maybe third grade, second, third grade, I was what you call a peer mediator. And that's where I would sit with two people who had some sort of altercation. That young, you were already, wow. Yeah. High school was the peer helper. Yeah.

And I just wanted to help people, you know, hear and understand. Uh, cause usually it's just misunderstanding, miscommunication. And so, uh, I was always sitting at a table talking to someone. And, um, actually when I was in the fourth grade, I remember, uh,

You remember the DARE program? Sure. D-A-R-E. Yeah, hell yeah. What did it stand for again? Drugs. Drugs, alcohol, right? Something. Yeah, drugs, alcohol. I remember those two, but the R-E's. I don't know. I forget. Someone tell us. I don't know. But we were supposed to write an essay, right? And I did not write my essay. And so everyone's handing their essay in that day. And I'm like, oh, shit, I need to write the essay. So I start writing it down, write it, finish it, turn it in.

And then I get a phone call at home and they're saying, hey, we're looking for a Santron and we want to let you know that, you know, we were selected the best essay in the school and we selected yours. And I'm like, what? Because. And so they said, we want you to read it out loud. And if you don't want to, it's OK. We have another one we like, but we really like yours.

What did the essay say? I don't remember. And I wish I still had it. I really wish I did. But I remember feeling like that's what I was supposed to do. I didn't feel afraid to stand on a podium and share at that time. And I felt like it was right for me to just stand and connect with people.

And so I've always been someone who wanted to do that, but it was out of my own pain. It was a way that I took my pain and use it into something that was good and beyond me. And so for me, if my pain meant that I can help somebody, because I used to say this all the time, like I love people. And, you know, obviously people can annoy you too, but I genuinely do mean that. And people say, what does that mean? I love people. And so I want to do my best to be helpful in the ways that I can and

That was one way I coped with my own pain, and I saw other people getting to feel better. And so then I learned, you know, I can't heal you. I can't make people happy, but I can certainly do that for myself and then share with you what I'm doing and then hopefully encourage you to do the same thing. So you had this very strong purpose from a very early age, kind of found that, I guess, calling or purpose. Yeah. Yeah. I would say purposeful. It was purposeful, and it was life-saving for me.

Because, again, you know, when we're in our own pain, when we're drowning in our own pain, it's something that it's heavy and you don't always see your way out of it. But because of love, because of my drive to be helpful, it drove me to stay in it, stay in the game, stay a bit longer, you know, keep showing up, keep pushing, you know. And that was something I discovered early on. It's interesting, too, because, you know, throughout history and now even all over the world, there's a lot of –

spiritualities, religions that use dance, movement, song as part of their ritual, as part of their practice to connect to their higher power. So that's more of a common thing than most people may realize throughout history, throughout several different cultures all over the world. Well, we also know that the character for music in Chinese is similar to the character for medicine.

Um, it, there's a commonality there. Um, and I know in also ancient times they would use music to put over a certain body part and heal the body part because the vibration would harmonize and help the body remember its original state. And so, um, music is definitely healing. It makes you feel, it makes you cry, it makes you joyous. It makes you feel certain things when we're open to it. And so, um,

For me, music is definitely a key factor. That's why I do love to sing. That's why I do love to dance. That's why I do love instruments. And it is, for me, the most real and raw way to really connect and really just move through anything. I need that music. Music is magical like that, isn't it? It is. It's really crazy you say that because I feel the same way. From a very young age, music and how he knows, it's like music to me was like my...

my thing, like my, I don't know, I don't know how to, I don't know how to put it, but it was the only way that I could tap, not the only way, but it was the most effective way that I ever tapped into my raw emotions. And I'm not comparing my spirituality and in terms of, you know, all those things to, to you, but just from my perspective, like,

All the emotions, all the most intense emotions, whether positive or negative, were always to a soundtrack. You know what I'm saying? Like my life soundtrack. I do know what you're saying. Yeah. And it was always at the most intense points. There was always music in that equation. I'm raising my hand because I agree, literally. I'm preaching to the choir here. For real, though. For real. Yeah. No, it's a real thing. I'm not bullshitting. It's like that's a real, real thing. Yeah.

So when I was maybe 12 or so, actually no, I was actually not much younger than I was like nine or something like that. And there was a, you know, my mom would buy CDs and we remember CDs and we would listen to the CDs and she had one from Mariah Carey. And there were some words in a lot of those songs like hero and butterfly and

Will you be there and always be a friend? Anyway, a lot of different songs that really at that time, you know, no one knew what I was internally feeling. But I was suicidal and that as in I wanted to kill myself, but I definitely didn't want to live life like it was. And that music, those words, they I would literally gush tears out because that was expressed. It was it was giving me like actual hope.

And I had no idea that she'd be the last artist that I danced for. I had no idea I would become a dancer. I had no idea that I have that opportunity to tell her thank you in person because your music helped save my life. And it is a very, very real thing because children these days, especially now, are losing it. They're losing it as in they're they're.

committing suicide left and right. It's happening a lot. Huge problem. And it's a, it's a, it's a big one. And it's simply to me because they are so sensitive and gifted. They are so attuned, you know, in tune with what's happening and they don't really know that it's okay. And they don't have a lot of tools yet to, to process and cope with.

But the truth is they know what's happening. And I really wish that our parents will look at children to learn from children because children are the answer. Children have the answers. And so the more we listen to them and stop feeling like we have all the answers, I think that they will...

feel more like they belong and that they don't have to leave and that there's purpose in them being here because they are everything. Well, I think social media also has a huge part to do with it too for a lot of these young kids growing up now. I can speak for Howie myself, but even you, you were kind of at the tail end, but we were the last generation to have witnessed the world pre-internet.

Truly. Truly. Truly. We are. That's not hyperbole. That's fact. We are the last generation to have experienced, to have known a world pre-internet. So all these kids growing up now, all they know is this social media shit, right? And obviously social media has its benefits, but it also has huge consequences that I don't think we fully understand yet. Not enough data has come out, not enough research, not enough time. And the impact it has on a lot of these kids' psyche is,

and like their their kind of thoughts and their beliefs and the pressures that they have to grow up with socially I Mean, I can't really relate to that but I can see how that can be incredibly damaging I mean, I feel like what you just said because we're older It's like what we feel I mean how we feel with social media if like getting like sharing posts getting likes and stuff like that or seeing what other people are doing and

I mean, multiply that times like 50. At least. I feel like we would have to multiply by 50. Because even us, we're like, oh, we didn't get a lot of likes. But it doesn't really ruin our day. But for a kid, that's all they know. And we're already mature enough where our social structure is kind of set. It's not going to change too much. But for a young kid in their adolescence, they're just building that. That's just being formed.

And so this social structure and their social hierarchy and how much they're liked and the friends that they keep around, I mean, that's a huge, huge, huge part to do with their mental psyche and their mental wellbeing.

Yeah. It's that community that's needing to be formed. It's that, you know, what is my place in my community? What is my value in my community? And that's why kids talk in class. That's why kids talk to each other. It's not so much because they don't want to be great students. It's more so because they're the most important things are relationships. And so those are the things we're building and where, you know, it's human. That's right. And so those essential basic things we're trying to figure out and sort out. And so, yeah, kids like,

I don't know what to think of myself because of what I'm seeing on the screen. And that's why I really hope that kids have more tools and I want to teach that more and other people who already are. Thank you. Because, you know, we need to be able to just let our kids know like you're good, you're good. And if you see something in someone else and it's empowering you to keep growing, wonderful, great. Um, but,

the, the, the idea of lack, it's not a real thing unless we decide for us that it is. So it's more about, I can, I can see a possibility in the world based on what's on my screen, but it's not my reality necessarily. It's not, I can, I can actually still create my own thing. I can still be my own person.

So it also, it sounds like, you know, from your own words, it sounds like a lot of kind of what sparked this path that you're on now as an adult really came from the earlier trauma in your life, right? And, you know, you mentioned obviously one huge part, if not the part, is really the passing of your mother. Were there other traumas that you went through that kind of grew out of this or, you know, what was the trauma like?

And how did you get out of it? So in spirituality, so and I'm saying that first because I have to have to look through that lens of what is the message that came from the trauma. So, you know, I don't necessarily need to relive the trauma. I don't necessarily need to re feel it, but I need to look at it and say, what was the message from what I experienced?

Because of my early years of devaluing myself and not feeling like I was heard, not feeling like my presence was really allowed because there were certain spaces, stay here, be in a child's place, that type of thing. A lot of adults in my culture would kind of put a child down instead of the mutual respect that I felt children deserve.

Um, it was a lot of, um, just the constant verbal abuse and there was physical abuse that would follow. And anytime, you know, a kid is in that state of mind for, you know, a long time and that accumulates, that's going to continue to transcend into a

Was this from other kids, this abuse? What was this from? Well, it starts at home. It starts at home. And so it was my mom's boyfriend. So my father in the American system, it's already out there. And we can look at it from any angle. But it's already out there that a lot of drugs were put into black neighborhoods in certain cities. And what the crack epidemic did in the 80s was horrendous.

And crack didn't just appear in these neighborhoods, and these people didn't just start seeking these drugs to destroy their lives. It was done. And so just like people who try cigarettes or people who try alcohol, people who try different things, as humans we try them, and that's already researched. It wasn't released to another. Exactly. And so it was introduced, and it was experienced, and then people who were now these –

of this drug are also the ones where the laws are cracking down now because, um, the war on drugs, right? And so the one's getting punished. So it's like, it's a double whammy, you know? Right. So I'm going to put it in your hood and then I'm going to punish you for using it because that's what I really want. I want to, uh, utilize the 13th amendment and create more slaves because I can now take these incarcerated people and put and get free labor out of them. So that's what I'm going to do. So that's what kind of took place. And as a three year old boy, um,

My father, who was an incredible man, still with us today, awesome heart and brilliant mind. He was incarcerated now. And so from age three on, I'm without my actual biological father physically, although every birthday he would write me a letter. I get to speak with him on the phone. So he was still present.

But my mother, you know, she moved on and she fortunately never bad mouthed my dad. She always, you know, share love and talked about how incredible he is. And my mom's family, like they all love him. And so that was a gift. That was one gift that I definitely appreciate. You lucked out. I did big time because we know that's not the only thing. And so that was there was that.

but then there's this new guy who, you know, who's trying to prove himself and, and be something that he feels like he's not apparently because he was pushing so hard and he would target myself and my older brother at the time. And, um, just continue to come down on us and talk crazy and, you know, verbally abuse my mom and,

And I didn't understand that because I saw the intelligence and the beauty and the power that my mom is. And I just didn't understand it. And so I'm witnessing this from about age four on to age 12. The two wonderful things that came from that was my younger brother and my younger sister. They became, you know, they were born. I was nine and then 11 when they both came into the world.

And so while those are the gifts, the trauma was still the trauma. You know, I come home from school and, you know, get, get a, I guess you would say a beating because I got ice cubes out of the freezer and he told me that he told me not to do that. And it's like,

Think about the basic thing that you're punishing someone for, the nonsense that it is. It didn't make any sense. And so that's when I started to question my own intelligence. Like, am I missing something? Like, I don't get it. Like, am I the crazy one? And because you're the adult and I'm told that you're the one that's supposed to know the way. And so that's just not the case.

There's another time my younger brother who has, again, autism, he was diagnosed when he was about three years old. He wouldn't go to sleep at night because that happens a lot with autistic children.

And people period. And so he's now being, you know, given a spanking for not, not going to bed. And so he would come up because, you know, my mom's boyfriend would come up into the living room and say, Hey, go to bed. And, you know, fussing at my brother. And then my mom would, you know, she's tired too. And so she came up and did the same thing. And then his dad would come back up again and hit him. And,

And I just asked them, like, would you want to go to sleep if you're being hit? Like, was that going to put you to sleep? And so I said, I got him. I got it. And so just witnessing things like that, being the one hit for simple to none reasons, not, you know, getting punished without telling the truth or a lie. It didn't matter. You know, I was in the house with someone who wasn't stable. And so I was getting the lashing of that over and over and over again. That's how that's where it started. But then that obviously, again, I didn't know how to deal with it after he left.

My older brother and I, we lost it. We were done. And so I was no longer a 12-year-old boy. My brother was no longer 17. We were beings who said, this won't happen to me anymore. And so while it didn't get physical, my energy, my mouth, my words, they came out. They were no longer hindered. And that shifted something. And my mom was finally standing up for us and for herself.

And she got to witness it more again because my younger brother and sister were born. So she was pregnant at home more often. So she could see a witness what was happening. And so she couldn't turn a blind eye to it anymore. She had to really face it. And she did. And I'm proud of her for that too. And so while that, you know, that was the thing that, that, you know, those events took place, um,

Again, I didn't know how to process what had happened for the last eight years. And so I took that energy into being a young adult and looking for my value, looking for my own answers, trying not to stay depressed. Thank you. Wanting the suicidal thoughts to leave because I'm feeling deeply and I don't understand it. I don't have the tools yet.

And so one thing that happened actually as a young adult, I was searching for my value. I was searching for my being accepted and accepted.

I was actually in clubs and I was drinking and partying. And fortunately, you know, alcohol wasn't like a heavy, heavy thing. And I didn't get into drugs because of my dad and because of the DARE program, because of me witnessing and saw what it did to my family. But I definitely used sex.

as something that would make me feel something, something that would make me feel valued because to me that was one of the deepest expressions that I could feel. Um, and to,

But to go further, I was also questioning whether it was what's wrong with me, that shame that seeps in, not just because of the sex, but what I was attracted to. And so me being a brown male from Washington, D.C., and being in the church, and actually even being someone who, after my mom passed, became a youth minister, you wouldn't dare, you would not dare be someone who was gay.

and being the church and leading people. You wouldn't dare be someone like that because of what you are taught, because of what someone else tells you, because of what is written in a book. You wouldn't dare. But then there's the truth at the same time.

there's a truth and a lot of, um, and some spiritual practice, it's actually believed that it's an imbalance, you know, people who are gay and who are not. Uh, and I said, well, then what would the value of me being a heterosexual male be and in society today? And I said, well, okay, maybe to be a father. Okay. I love children. I love to be a father. But then I said, well, if I were born a female, wouldn't it be, would it be the same thing? You know? Okay. Uh, it's not about the actual part, uh,

And so that's when I started looking deeper and looking beyond just the role of having children, because we also know many men and women who are heterosexual who can't have children or don't have children. So, OK, there has to be a deeper meaning behind being a male or female then. And so me being a male and me being a brown male in this lifetime. But with this message and with these experiences, I believe it's more of me, what I look like.

And then the words that will come through my mouth are a portal and an image for people who look like myself and other people to see another way other than what they're used to. And so the way that a beautiful, young, blonde woman would stand in front of, you know, a population, she's going to hit home in certain areas that they can relate to. Someone like myself, I'm going to hit home in other areas that other people can relate to.

So for me, I think it's more, it's not about, you know, the actual sex. I think it's more about who am I today? What message is coming through this body in this lifetime? And then who is that going to impact based on who's in front of me? So we have all types of, you know, things happening in America with racial tension and that's nothing new, nothing at all. Yeah.

And so but there are people who are, you know, needing to speak up and are speaking up. And so, you know, it's not always about the negative things and perceptions that a lot of cultures in the world have, you know, absorbed based on what media has allowed to be put out into the world. It's more about what is happening and who are those young people and who are you know, who are these men and women?

Gay or straight, whatever you want. Who are these people? These people who are living, who have love in their hearts? Who are these people that have a message? And what is that message? And is it from love and truth and connection and for the betterment of everyone involved? And so for me, I feel like it's more of a I'm just someone who looks like I look.

I am who I am and I'm just here to share a certain message. And as long as I'm open and allowing myself to, to be that person, it'll impact people beyond what I can ever fathom or think. And I believe in that because when I went to New Zealand to lead a dance workshop and these are people who, you know, I only knew them through one person. It was one person I was connected to in New Zealand. And,

As I'm, you know, I share on that stage, it was 5,000 kids. It was a camp. It was an Easter camp, actually. And 5,000 kids in this place and lots of activities and just a really good environment. And I got to dance on stage. And then the pastor interviewed me after. And he says, you know, tell them your story. And so I'm sharing and all that and letting them know what's important to me. And I get off stage and this kid walks up and he says, hey, you know, this is going to sound weird, but I want you to know that I came to this camp because I knew you were coming.

And I'm like, oh, no one knows me here. So, you know, how? And he says, you know, we were studying social studies about four years ago, how black people in America were treated before and how they're treated now. And he says, and, you know, I found this video that you were in some dance video. I still don't know which one it was. I should probably ask. But he said, I saw this video and he says, you know, for me, that was the first time I felt like God spoke to me and said that if I can help him, then I can help you.

And he said that because he said, you know, church at the time was rejecting me and I wanted to kill myself. And he says, but when I saw you, something in me said, it's OK. And so I had to pause him to really hear what he's saying and really feel what he's saying. And of course, tears streamed down my eyes because he doesn't know my story. He didn't know that I experienced the exact same thing because I never shared that story with him or anyone on that, you know, on any platform they could hear.

And so my energy, my soul, my message, whatever we want to call it, spoke to this kid who decided now not to kill himself. So he was gay as well? Yeah. So at what age, how early did you know? I've always known. You've always known? Yeah, it was never a question. I tried, you know, being with, you know, girls and all that, did that. And, you know, it was...

okay too, but just the connection of it, the, what I feel is a beautiful, intimate and, you know, loving connection is, it's just not the same, um, as it is with the guy for me. And that's for me, it's important to like what feels right for you. You know, I, I, I can't speak to anyone else's experience, but you know, I've been with women and for me it was more just sex and I don't want to just experience just that there's more to it. And so, um, you know,

You know, and I've looked at, you know, well, I questioned my relationship. Well, did I have a, you know, deep resentment against women? Like, what was that about? But I have the utmost respect for my grandmother, my mom, my appreciation there is very strong. So I don't believe that that's the root. I just it just is what it is. And it's OK to.

you know, be what you are, whatever that is. And I don't really think anyone externally can tell anyone what they are. I think it's an inside job and it's been here since the beginning of time. Um, you know, I feel like a lot of people feel like it was done or, you know, the whole thing about, you know, well, your dad wasn't there. So maybe that was why, um,

But I know too many people who have both dad and mom loving, supportive, where they're also gay and very feminine even. So it's none of those things. It's your soul's expression in your body, whatever that is. I'm not confused. It's just ignorant people. Well, the whole dad thing, the dad thing argument would be going down like a Freudian rabbit hole, really, right? So growing up, what you did was...

Was that something, was your sexuality something you had to hide at an early age or, you know?

My stepdad would even, I was maybe 11 or so, and he would, you know, he said something that obviously I remember. But he said, that's why your mom thinks you're gay. Like teasing me about it. Really? Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. Okay. And so it was like. So your mom knew? She knew for sure. Because she told her or she just knew? No, mothers know. Okay. Mothers know. But, you know, I think anyone who actually cares and loves their child knows and sees them.

Uh, you know, we don't have to turn a blind eye to anything because really it's not, it's not that we don't love our children is that we're so worried about what the hell someone else has to say. I asked my grandmother, I said, grandma, I said, you know, why, what, what is it really that makes you feel like, you know, being gay is wrong. I said, is it, is it just what you, you know, what religion says or do you in your heart feel like, you know, I'm wrong or that I'm bad or what is that?

And she said, it's not religion. It's not, you know, it's not religion. And she says, well, it is because I do love you. It's just what she was taught, which I understand. We're all taught something. OK, great. But then there's always the truth. There's always what's in you and love for me. It exceeds all those different labels, constraints, limitations, everything.

It just is there. And so I'm either loving you for being who you are or I'm hating you for being who you are. And that's, I'm not hating you for being who you are. I'm hating me, really. I'm judging me. And so the more I can love on myself, that's why we get back to self. Then the more I can accept and love you. Yeah, I think you're hitting on something that I've definitely mentioned in some way or another in a previous episode. But I firmly believe, as close-minded as this comment may sound...

The majority of people, I mean, majority being over 50%, whatever that number is, I don't know. It's not scientific. But the majority of people out there in the world are closed-minded and don't have the ability to question their own mindset. Right.

Because they're just either whether you want to call it sheepish mentality, going with the flow, feeling like the tribalism, like needing to be part of the greater group. Or denial. Or denial. I mean, there's a lot of different reasons. But the majority, over 50% of the human population do not or do not allow themselves to have the ability to question themselves or question the big idea. Guess where that starts?

Where does it start? At home and school. How we're trained to listen to the adult instead of listening to ourselves. How we are not allowed to question things because this is what it is instead of what are the other possibilities. And so we are not allowed to question even a religion. We're not allowed to question because this is the law. This is what it is. This is just, there's no other option. And so you don't allow yourself to think of the possibilities. You don't allow yourself to be imaginative and really explore other elements of what

you know, could exist out there somewhere. And so that conditioning, that continued path of, I'm telling you this, you know, one plus one is two. Well, it might not actually be, there might be more elements to what you're, what, what is, what if it's not a given? Exactly.

And so for me, it's that constant conditioning and that's why it is what it is. And then we're either enabled, you know, we're not allowed to, we're not, you know, we can't fathom this cognitive dissonance. And we're like, you are now what, what I'm angry because you're, you're now bringing this idea to me that is going against everything that I know, but it's just everything externally is just that what's in your inner world, what's in my inner world is,

That's up to me to discover. And that, again, my mom passing and, you know, the way I was treated early on, those things made me question, made me ask. And I remember a time where I didn't really question anything. I didn't really ask questions directly.

And that is, to me, the lack of intelligence when I'm not asking questions. And so the more questions I ask, the more my engine is moving. I'm going to get answers and I'm getting them. And that's just how I've experienced it. Sounds like it's a blessing that you actually went through some shit. Because it made you. 1,000%. Not only is it a blessing, it sounds like a miracle you turned out the way you did. So loving, intelligent. You seem like a very put-together person, right? You have your shit together, it seems like.

I think most people who kind of go through that, and you had some added on kind of challenges, I guess. Societal. Than a quote unquote normal person, right? Or a straight person would. And you still come out of all that still having so much love in your heart is nothing short of miraculous, really. I don't know. I don't know how you find the strength to still be so loving. Right.

through all that shit, you know what I'm saying? - I appreciate it and I'll say that it's more of a, it's just a thing that just is. Because I will share too, like even, you know, I'm 33 now. Even before I came here, you know, if I'm not in active mode of healing myself still now, if I'm not in active mode of helping someone,

then I'm feeling the other things. I'm seeing the other things and it makes it

hell and so i have to put to use what has been and what is i have to put it to use because there's so much i my mom you know physically being here doesn't change and so i can stay in the trauma of that i can stay in the grief of that or i can actively pursue being well i can actively see it differently it's a purposeful life it has to be

So it really comes back to that whole like you have to empower yourself. Like no one else can really do this for you. No one else can take this path or take this journey for you. Like you have to find the strength internally within yourself to help yourself. And it does take work. It's work. And if you can't, then you're kind of screwed. But if you can, you're going to get out of this shit. And the beautiful thing is we all can because we're here.

We're here. But so many people don't. You know what I'm saying? Just because they don't know they have the choice. Which goes back to what I'm saying of over the majority of the people, over 50% of the people are just stuck in their way, you know? And I'm just going to use myself as an example. I feel like I've always been a bit more aware and a bit more cognizant of other people and reaction. Just like peer leadership. I would do that as well. And I actually wanted to do some sort of like, you know,

something where it was like aiding other people back in the day. Now, because of that, I feel like I always had a little bit of it, but it was not until about maybe, I don't know, seven years ago, I would say, that I started really changing, where I really made the effort to look deep inside myself and realize that, you know what? I ain't all good. You know what? I got to change. I am not perfect. I am not like...

You know, I used to always ride the potential road, you know, the potential boat. Like, how he's got full of potential. No, I had no potential. I only have what I do. You know what I mean? And if I'm just going to live off potential, I'm going to go nowhere. You know what I mean? And so it's like changing that mindset of being like, you know, I'm not good. I'm not good. I got to change. I got to be better. I can be better.

You know, that's where, you know, it became like this really, what's the word? Empowering. Yeah, it was really empowering. And I'm not saying I'm there yet. Just like you said, I think it's a lifelong journey. Always. Right? But then I also saw because of that, I saw the people around me and I started seeing, wait a minute, why can't you do that too?

And it started pissing me off. Whether it's without saying specific names, like family members. That's a natural thing. For example, I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ. Can you just empower yourself, please? Or friends, like our circle. I mean, I'm sure everyone has it. And it's almost like I want, I'm sure you feel it, I want you to empower yourself. I want you to see that light. And the best way for me to do that is to be it.

Yeah. And so that's my engine. That's my everything is because, yeah, the work doesn't stop. And, you know, me facing myself on the daily, it's a real thing. And that's why, you know, I'm grateful for the platform to teach and share because I need it.

And I like to show I'm authentic. And so that means I have to do the work. You know, I can't just talk and say, good job or keep going. That's bullshit. You know, I need to be able to, I need to, what am I actually saying? You need to be about it. Yes. Yeah. I love how you said, how, when Justin asked you about, you know, you know, give me, give us a quick background of who you are. Like immediately you just dive right in. It's not about you helping other people.

You're helping yourself. Yes. And through that, you can affect other people. Well, it seems to me like the real click moment is really like when you realize that you have to start overestimating other people and stop underestimating yourself. Yeah.

right that's a good one like i like that one like we we live in this world and i've experienced this in in different degrees and in different facets of my life um that i'm not gonna get into now but like we live in this world where we think the world is built on on the backs of these giants right

and that they are things that we can't achieve and that this world has structures and rules and guidelines that are built by these gods and these giants and these great men and women and these geniuses that we will just never be and we just have to live in this world. And we just have to live by that rules and just go about our business, minding our own business.

But the moment you realize like you're kind of like, you know, like Neo in the Matrix. Yeah. You know what I mean? Where you have more power than you think and you have to start overestimating everything else around you and realize that this world is built by people just like you and me. Yeah. You know? Yeah. They're built just by normal people like you and me and you are one of them. Yeah. Yeah.

And you have the power to really affect change in the world and for yourself. And the moment you really believe that and realize that is a game changer. You know, even like, you know, to a lesser degree, like Steve Jobs even alluded to this in one of his like rare speeches that he gave interviews that you can find online really that I've seen. He alludes to this. He alludes like the moment he realized that like he can do like real significant shit was when he realized like,

The world is built by people no smarter than himself. You know what I'm saying? And he's like, well, if they can do it, I can do it. Kind of mentality. And then that's all she wrote.

And I'll say this too, me working with celebrities, as you mentioned earlier, right? So I'm around these people that kids and adults, we put them on a pedestal. We call them stars because stars you look up to and they're in the sky. But the reality is that light that's reflecting back is, we are made of light. We all are. If you break the science down, none of us are solid. Only we open us up. We're atoms, light. We're many different things. Neil deGrasse Tyson, man. We're all made of star stuff. Exactly. So-

we, we, we shouldn't, I won't say what we should or should not do. I will say what we get to do is see our mirror images and see the brilliance in people and say, ah, I can see that cause that's P2. Oh, I can see that person's power and that person's confidence cause that's in there. So even if I don't, even if I haven't identified myself as that before, it's in there. So yeah, just like, you know, a Beyonce, I was actually doing the MTV awards with her and,

I forget what year that was, 2012 or something like that, when she announced when she was pregnant for the first time. And that was a really cool show. And I remember this little girl who was there as a dancer doing the Britney Spears tribute. And she's, oh my God, you're dancing for Beyonce. Oh my God, oh my God, I want to be just like her when I grow up.

And I said, that's beautiful. And I said, and just don't limit yourself because you never know where you can go. You might get further. And just to say, you know, that is good to look and see something amazing because Beyonce has accomplished an incredible amount of things and still is. And,

But you little girl, you're younger, which means you get to learn how to make it even better. You get to learn how to advance it and be more impactful and meaningful and, you know, live a life that's more brilliant than what you have seen already. Just like Beyonce did, you know, before her predecessors. That's right. That's right.

And so the Mariah Carey's even that Beyonce respects and Tina Turner's. And so there's always something, someone in front of us helping us dive into what we already are, you know? And so that's where I say, yeah, there's no one greater or lesser, you know, that we are all able to do what we got to do. And as long as we know that, and which is harder to get to sometimes, you

Um, you know, then we, we, something just, it shifts internally and then ideas come and then the right people come and then just opportunities. They just show up out of nowhere, quote unquote, but it's that internal belief that changes. And then my heart's going to now, uh, magnetically pulse that out into some environment that we call whatever, whatever we walking around in. And then somehow some person or something or something happens, uh,

And it's something that, you know, sounds like, OK, what does that mean? But it's as simple as I believe it and I see it for myself. I've visualized it. I've even written it down. I've even taken pictures out of a magazine and put it on a board just so it can help me, you know, clarify my thoughts.

And now I can see it better and I can believe it better. And now I'm trying to get ideas and things are coming to me. And, you know, a commercial made me really, you know, oh, oh, I get it. I see it now. I see it more clearly as I see it, as I believe it, as I feel it, as I feel it, as I feel it.

then the other stuff starts to happen. Then I'm starting to see it materialize, and now it's more of a reality. That's why I'm in Shanghai. That's where we are. We're all here. And so we could be back in our comfort zone at home, but we're not. We're in a different land, and we're doing different things. No one else is, you know, incapable of doing that same thing. That is so important, right? It's because actually just what you're just saying right now, it's action, right? It's like forget about...

the child that wants to be like Beyonce but feels like, oh, that's so far away, but forget about that, right? You take action. You just move forward towards what you want. That's it. Just take action. And just like you're saying, you're putting it out there. It's like the universe has its way to bring you what you need, right? Always. And one school of thought that I have, I don't know if you agree, is if there's something that you really want to do or be or achieve, right?

you know, try to live it, you know, like live it, believe it, you know, talk about it in a humble way, but like, you know, in that way. But just by putting it out there, quote unquote, the universe will give you, right? Give you opportunity, will give you people, will give you chances. But what does that really mean in a scientific way? Because that could be a little bit more spiritual, right? In a scientific way is...

you're getting awareness to people around you. So they start hearing this, they start seeing this and you're being more aware of it and you're connecting dots and they're connecting dots and that's where opportunity comes. You know, in a scientific way. Yes, absolutely. So a prime example, New York. I moved to New York in 2010 to pursue my dance career and, you know, I didn't really come from much training

You know, I've always performed, but I didn't really have a strong dance background. I was 24 years old and I was like, you know, hey, I'm just going to go for it. And so I was looking for work and, you know, I wanted to be, you know, someone who knew about wine so I can do fine dining and, you know, be a waiter in the restaurants. That was my plan. Right. But I realized, you know, after two weeks of being there, a month of being there, I'm searching for work and I'm not finding it. I'm like, what the hell is that? Like, I didn't I've never had an issue getting a job before.

And then one night I'm up, you know, typing out a resume and I mean, filling out an application and realize, oh, I didn't move here to work a damn job. I worked, came here to dance. So let me just know that that's why I'm here. I let all that go. And literally about a week later, I hear about an audition and I go to the audition. I get, you know, a headshot from someone I knew, take great photos. And I go to this audition and there are hundreds of people, hundreds, hundreds.

But none of that meant anything to me. I knew I was supposed to be there. I knew why I was there. And I knew while I didn't have all the experience, I had passion. I had a good look. I could move. And so I did my very best. And long story short, you know, they cut it down to about 10 guys and a few, you know, a few women.

And that was the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show. That was my very first real dance job. And that is the second highest rated thing seen on TV in America after the Super Bowl. So that was my first job. And that's where Beyonce's choreographer saw me, Frank Gatson, and said, you know, the same magic I see in you right now, because I'm not just dancing again just to dance or just to work.

I'm dancing because it's the thing that saved my life. And so my story from my mom and my sibling, you know, my brother who went to depression and decided not to eat for 30 days was about to be done. And all these different things that made me want to like, you know, either live or die. You know, I put that into my movement. And Frank Gaston said to me, he says, you know, I work with Michael Jackson for years and I work with Beyonce now for years. And the same magic that they have is as you have that.

And that's something I couldn't hear, really hear and receive at the time. But now I'm understanding and I'm being who I am. I get what he's saying. And it's just a matter of you being authentically, you really connected to all that is. And you really showing up the best way. You know how I'm using something so deeply rooted in your genes and your soul and your spirit and you putting it out there for the world to live.

Help the world live, be. And so that's what I'm doing my best to do. And that's all I can do. And it is an inside job. It is for me. It is for me. And by me doing that for me, I am seeing how it's helping other people. And people who talk about selflessness, it does not exist. Because every time we do something for someone else, we feel good. And that's okay. That's okay.

That's all right because it should be a win-win. We get to help each other, and that's a beautiful thing. So we take action, we take action, we take action, and as long as we're feeling good and balanced and helpful and healthy, then go, do it. Well, for someone listening, you kind of give all these examples throughout your life where these positive things have happened to you, right?

But like, what about like, because undoubtedly, you know, you're a human, you're a guy, you're living your life just like the rest of us. And of course, you know, you're going to come across setbacks and things that challenges and hurdles in your way that we all do. Right. And, you know, just failures that we all experience. So.

Someone listening might be thinking, you're giving examples of all these really positive things that have happened throughout your life and these kind of milestones and these realizations you've had through these experiences. But how do you deal with and what is your mindset when you hit these road bumps and when you hit setbacks and when you do fail? My mindset now versus then. Now. Yeah, now. So everything is energy. Everything is a vibration. Everything. Everything.

And so if I'm not aligned, if my energy is not aligned with that outcome, then I need to look at my life. What is my what are all the areas of my life and how are they? How am I feeling in those areas of life? So if I'm wanting to expand my business, but me as a person, I don't feel like I'm, you know, having a good relationship with finances right now.

then that's going to impact how I show up in my business is going to impact me. So I have to look at all the areas of my life and I have to feel into those areas and make sure I feel confident and feel a good relationship with each individual area. Right. And so the way I look at it, there are eight areas of life and we, you know, everyone has their own model and their own system and we need to have our own system, whatever that is. And then, so for me,

There's family. There are finances. There's social life, which, you know, we talk about relationships, friends, all the things, dating even. There is physical. There's mental. There is spiritual. And there is a passion hobby, which is a big one that I'm currently working on. And then there's also your soul's purpose, that thing that gets you to drive, that thing that gets you to get up out of bed every morning.

And so if my relationship with those areas are healthy and I scaled them between a one and a 10 and it is a feeling, it's an intuitive feeling. And if they're always above between a seven and above, then I'm doing, I'm doing pretty decent in that area. And the second that somebody doesn't work out the way that I want it to, I just need to check my energy and my match and my vibrational match for this thing.

What does that mean though, checking your energy? Like dive in a little bit. Exactly. So when I'm in the meditative state, when I'm connected, when I'm feeling balanced, I'm not in my stress, I'm not like in my head about worrying about things. As long as I'm connected to myself, I'm breathing, I'm good, then I can go into those areas. I have to check those areas of life. And I literally will close my eyes and I will just feel what is my relationship with finances right now.

And if it's above a seven, then good, great. If it's not, if it's below a seven, if it's a six or under, then what actions do I need to take that's going to create the highest, you know, the greatest impact in this area of my life? What action do I need to take? Is it just that I need to appreciate what I do have? Is it that I need to, you know, feel like I'm respecting my money? So when I get money, I do pay myself first. Now,

Not my bills. I paid me first. And then, you know, I put a little bit to the side and maybe I could put a little bit to, you know, some sort of charity that I actually believe in that I can track and say, OK, the good work is being done here. Like, am I being responsible in this area of my life?

And then I look at the other areas and is it above a seven out of 10? And so once I've gone through every area for me lately, it has been passion, passion, hobby. I need to feel like no matter what storm hits me, I I'm feeling like I've won the lottery. So I'm good. I'm all right. I can take this hit because life is good. Anyway, I got my millions and billions and beyond. And,

And so that's a feeling I want to create. And that means fun. That means doing things that make me feel like I'm growing. And sometimes that means I have to use my hands, whether I'm sketching or drawing or playing an instrument, something like that where I feel like I'm growing.

And so when I do this thing, then I'm like, oh, I'm all right, you know, no matter what happens. And so for me, that's been lacking a little bit. And so what I'm doing now is finding these places where children are and going in to just do dance workshops where I help them to just be okay with expression, expressing. Because that, again, when I look at childhood, that was a big one for me.

Uh, we look at dance as a technique and as a skill, but there's a lot more to that. There's a lot more communication happening. And so that's something that's going to help invigorate me. I don't want to get paid for it. It's more of me going, you know, devoting my time to it. And it's something I just enjoy. It's not about the money. It's not about, um,

You know, me being more fit is not about any of those things except me just enjoying it and having fun, having a play time with myself because we think that we're older and we're, you know, adult like when we are also just bigger children and that's okay. Like we need to have fun. We have to. It's fulfilling for you. That's the same as somebody else gambling or, you know, fishing. Yeah.

or, you know, whatever. Something where you feel like you're growing and it's filling up your cup. You feel amazing. And so that's just what I look at. And once I feel like my vibration is good and then it's a match for this outcome, then I'm trusted. I believe that. And I take the actions that are going to put me in the direction. And that for me is how I check myself now.

Well, I love what you said about like kind of adopting that I've already won mindset and like anything bad that happens to you, you can kind of brush off. Yeah. Because like, oh, I already won. I already hit the lottery. Yeah. You know? And, you know, that doesn't mean I'm not going to keep striving to improve and do things I love and do good.

But if you have that mindset going forward, it becomes so much easier for you to do those things because it lifts such a heavy weight off your back. Big time. Where it frees you to actually progress even faster. Well, also, I feel like it also empowers you to be more brave. Yeah. Exactly. You just go for it. You just go for it. You're less afraid of failure. You know, like that episode we had where it's just like people are so afraid of failing, failing that they just stop doing anything.

They don't take action. Because they're afraid to fail, they don't do it. They don't do anything. I also deeply believe it's people that are afraid to actually really succeed and be powerful because it takes more responsibility. It takes more work. And I think that's a big one. And I'm saying that because that's what I've experienced too.

And I didn't want to shine. I didn't want to be in the limelight because now I have to sustain it. Now people are, you know, if I have expectations, that's right. And so I've been allowing myself to just let all that go and just do what I came here to do. Just dive into it. Just go, go, go take action. Just,

show up and if I fall okay guess what that's a part of it and it's meant to be that and then I get up because I'm alive and I'm here I am and so you know I've already conquered many different things and that's not to say that you know my life is based on just what I've experienced already but there's something driving me to go forward and so what is that thing you know what is valuable to you right now and if you know the thing that was giving me to go before was you know that was what it was but now it might have changed and that's okay too my driving force may be a little different

And so as long as I'm moving forward, as long as I'm seeing that, yes, I've already won. And if it means that, like back when I would audition, for instance, I would be told no, for sure. And what do you do? Like, I don't know.

I'm not talented or gifted. Hell no. You get up. Okay, great. Awesome. Thank you for the opportunity. I got to take a free class, basically. I got to have an experience where I learned something and have fun. That's why I have to have fun to make sure I'm enjoying myself. And then I keep it moving. Life goes on and we get to go on. That's such an important...

i feel like that's such an important message that people need it's and i say this not lightly especially in china um like what you just said right now is so important because whether it's through professional life or whether it's through relationships through loved ones or family or whatever

Know that every opportunity or every situation that you put yourself in, if there's a negative outcome or did not come out to what you expected, that's not the definition of who you are. And you just need to move on and continue on. The reason I'm saying this is because I just saw this article. It's really big right now on social media in China. Yeah.

is this girl committed suicide in a relationship because the guy was like controlling her and stuff like that. And like, she's like, oh, why do I even live anymore? And stuff like that, like heartbreak and all that stuff. And you hear that a lot here.

And it's almost like, okay, what? You get heartbroken and that's it? You're worthless now? Yeah, I hate those stories because it's like, I mean, no one should ever kill themselves. But if you kill yourself because of your own internal issues, I can understand. I can kind of understand that, maybe. But when you're killing yourself because of some other person,

That's when it gets crazy for me. Or a situation that's out of your control. It's like, what? Really? Because someone else thinks of you this way, now you're going to take your own life because of that fucking person? You know what I mean? That's where I can't connect the dots. You know what I mean? I can sympathize, but I just can't understand it truly. Again, it's a conditioning for me. It's a conditioning of your value matters most. And if you don't see value in me, then I damn sure don't see it in myself. But really, it's that I didn't see value in myself, and you had to show me that out loud.

You're just reconfirming that to me. Yes, big time. And that's what relationships are really for. So it's not about the fairytale story only. It's more about the reflection of how am I treating myself? What am I thinking of myself? How do I feel about myself? And so the people around me have to match and show me that it just is what it is so that I can say, I don't like the way that this person is speaking to me. I don't like the actions that they're taking. And so instead of me pointing the finger at them, I need to look at myself and start to make adjustments in my feeling. I do deserve to be treated with respect. I do deserve to be loved. I do deserve to be

uh, communicated with in a way that's respectful and fair and open. And so the more I see myself and appreciate myself, the more others do it. And I'll say it's a very simple tool that I've done. And it was me writing a list of things that I resonate with as in I am, uh,

I'll share one. I am, I wrote that I am a legend, right? And I wrote that because my intention is I want what I do here to exceed way beyond my physical body. So I want any work that I do or any messages that I, you know, share or any music or anything like that to come through and last way beyond my time. And so I wrote that down on paper. And then two days later, people who didn't fucking know, I wrote this list down. I walk in to this building and the people who I work with, and they're like, it's Santron. It's the man. It's the myth. It's the legend. Like,

they didn't know I wrote that word. They've never said it. They've never done it, but it was my belief that had changed two days earlier. And then I got to hear that from someone out of their mouth, just like when I was a kid and you know, my stepdad would say, call me stupid and all these things. And it was because I already felt stupid.

I already felt that way because of the way that I was tight and stressed. And so I wasn't able to absorb lessons. I wasn't able to absorb education. Well, you're also hypersensitive because your mindset is in that way. So you're hypersensitive to your surroundings. So if you hear certain things or you went in certain things, they get elevated. Big time. Accentuated.

because if you're a negative person and if anybody says anything close to negative to you, it gets accentuated. But if you're not feeling negative, feeling positive, someone says something, it's just going to bounce off of you. Literally. It's like we're living in a cocoon that's lined with mirrors facing you. So whatever the outside world is giving out, you're reflecting back to yourself because...

you already feel that way. You know what I mean? They say that, you know, we don't see the world as it is. We see the world as we are. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So talking, okay. Going back a little bit and not to change the subject, but this is something that because you're here and I, I have to, I have to ask you these things because, you know, it's not, it's not very often we get, we get a guest that's, you know, that's performed with, you know, all these legends, right? Um,

So what was it like, those experiences kind of performing with all these great artists like Beyonce and Mariah Carey and Alicia Keys, Kelly Rowland, like all these great artists. Yeah, these fucking legends, right? Living legends. And you even gave an example earlier that you said you had a lot of very personal and emotional experiences to the soundtrack of a lot of Mariah Carey songs. Yeah.

And there was one point where, you know, obviously you've worked with her several times, but, you know, you kind of try to express that to her maybe. So what was that like meeting her? And she has no idea that you've went through all these like very significant personal experiences you had to her music. And so what was that like meeting her and trying to convey that to her? Or did you try to convey that to her? Gratitude. Gratitude.

Um, that's what it felt like. I felt like I was grateful because, um, I'm here one, two, um, as a professional, you know, I didn't, I didn't lead in with that. I came to do my job, do my job well.

And so I stayed professional. And then when the time felt right, because, you know, we sometimes before we go into a meeting or before we go into a rehearsal, before we go into some situation, we like have this big plan and how we're going to do it. I'm going to say it's like this. I'm going to I'm going to stand up like this. And I'm going to, you know, and so I just let all that go and just did my best to stay in the moment.

And, you know, the opportunity came where we were actually recording a video from her boyfriend, Brian Tanaka, which is a good friend of mine. And he was recording a video and it just came out in that video of me sharing with her, you know, I want to let you know that we are proud of you and we thank you. And, you know, how your words, you know, for me as a kid, it helped me stay alive because I was, you know, I didn't want to live. And so thank you for the impact that you have and that you have had.

And, you know, not long after that, she won an Icon Award and I got to perform on that with her. And so it was she made a speech about how, you know, the people who share with me how my words save their lives. She says, I want you to know that that's, you know, it's saving my life because she's also gone through a lot of, you know, you know, energetic changes. And and so I was very grateful that she was empowered to share her story, too. And so for me, working with people like her.

it's just like, yep. Because what I understood before I walked in the room is that they're not better than me and definitely not, you know, worse than me. We're all here and we all are each other in a different way. Um, you know, Beyonce didn't look at me and say, uh,

Well, you know, he's he all right. So I'm gonna have him dance with me. No, she looked at me and she said, he's got something and he's a beautiful person and he's got skill and talent and he's a he there's a power in there. She saw those things. And so she allowed it to be on her stage because as an artist who is seeking to be the best of the best, you want the best of the best beside you.

And because I understood that, fortunately, I got to look at more of a mirror than someone who I idolized. Someone I got to say, oh, you're beautiful and you're powerful and you're strong and you're intelligent and you're all these things. Oh, just like me. So what is it like working with them? Are they very tough on the dancers, like Beyonce or Mariah Carey? Are they...

Because they get a rap as like these divas, right? Especially Mariah Carey, right? She gets a rap, she gets the reputation like she's this ultimate diva, right? So what was your experience actually working with them? You know, it's funny because, again, we talked about the world being a mirror, right? And so when I was working with different artists at different times of my life, I would experience them based on what I believed about myself. Right.

And so going back to Beyonce first, that was me really stepping into my power as a person trying something new, doing dance for the real first time and me doing all that I could. And so I was working my butt off. I was doing my best. I was the most fit. I had been all these different layers. And so when I got to work with her, it was the same thing. She was very hardworking. She wanted the best. She was in.

in the moment. Like she was pregnant while we were filming level and top music video. And I was here taking a nap, but then getting up to dance full out after and be so engaging and so in. And so her work ethic was through the roof, just like mine. I had to work my butt off at that time. And so she was kind, she was respectful. She handled her business. Um, did she have a lot of interaction with you guys? Uh, quite a bit. Uh, in fact, um, if you look at the video level on top, uh, I'm the guy on the far left with no shirt, uh,

And people say, you know, why were you the only one with no shirt? It's not just, you know, other guys are fit too. But we just happened to be changing, you know, clothes and we're trying to figure out what wardrobe we were going to, you know, wear. And I didn't have one shirt at the time. And she says, she looked at me and says, you can keep your shirt on. And so that's how that happened. You know, no, no. Jay-Z ain't got a body like that. Shh.

Yep. Yep. He does this thing. And so I just had to, you know, appreciate those moments of working with someone like that at that time. She worked her butt off. Again, always respectful, always kind, silly even.

I remember the time we were in rehearsal for Run the World, actually, and she's watching the dancers and I'm over there eating almonds, right? And this is when I really felt like, you know, okay, I'm actually with a celebrity. And I felt all really, really special. And so she asked her assistant to ask me for my almonds because she wanted some. She was hungry. And I said, Beyonce ate my almonds.

but it was just a cool moment, you know? Um, but again, just very like down to earth. She was, you know, direct and just, you know, hardworking, but also like chill, you know, not like, uh, she wasn't a diva in the sense of being disrespectful. And I feel like, you know, if I were bringing an energy like that, then I might've experienced that, but I wasn't. And you know, you could, every dancer, every person has their own experience. We're all in the same place, but everyone's having their own experience. And so mine was always good. Um,

There was a time in New Orleans we did Super Bowl, and that was an intense time for me as a person. My relationship at home was crazy at the time. It was stressful. And so it wasn't her. It was just the environment, even the people. It was a heightened time. Was this for Beyonce, for Super Bowl? Yeah, Super Bowl with Beyonce. And it was like, wow, what, huh? It was just an intense time.

But she was more quiet. You know, that was a big moment for her for doing the Super Bowl. And so she was more focused, more in. And, you know, I didn't you know, at first I was like, you know, did I do something again? Going back into the introspection, did I do something? She's not really as warm, you know, as I've known her to be. But it's not about me. It's about her, where she is and what she's focused on. And so I respect that. And I gave her, of course, space and just it was what it was. And so, you know.

All good experiences in terms of my working with her. Nothing was wrong. Then going back into Alicia Keys, I smiled big on this one because I got to tour with her for a year all over the world. I love Alicia. I love Alicia. And let me tell you. She seems like such a wonderful woman. I mean, I just can't even, I can't, words again, don't do it. She's someone who, it wasn't just her. Again, it's the people that were attracted to the project.

And so some of my closest friends still today are from that cast and because they're incredible human beings to me and love them dearly. And Alicia, for me, I never forget. It was my it was my birthday and we were in Belgium and she we were backstage playing.

in a prayer circle before we went out setting intention. And she said to me, you know, she did the normal thing. And at the end, she said, you know, I want to dedicate this show to Santron because, you know, it's his birthday. And, you know, every every corner you turn on, every street you walk down, you know, you really light it up. And she would just someone like her.

you know, respecting and acknowledging someone like Alicia Keys said that to you, it meant everything to me. It meant everything to me. And, and so it's important who you allow, uh, to, to speak words into your life and what words you allow to sink in. And those words from that person, I allowed to sink in because I knew that she meant it. I knew that it was real and she's a gifted woman. Um,

And her soul just- She seems real spiritual. She is. Really positive. She is. And very, just in the journey. Just really in it. Is she really down to earth though? Because she comes across as really down to earth. But you never know with these celebrities. She's down to earth. But she's also very, she keeps her space. She respects her space. And I respect that. Right.

Very down to earth, very loving, very like, what's up? How you doing? She's very chill and very professional and very about the work being done to the best way it can be. But her biggest thing on our tour, she was talking to Jamil, our choreographer. She says, I don't care how talented they are. I don't care how skilled and gifted they are. Their energy has to be right. Right.

And I love that because she has a son, you know, Egypt, which I adore that kid. And just that's her family. She's touring with her family and not just her family, but her, you know, your vibe has to be right. Yeah. And so she made sure that and I love, again, everyone that was on that cast.

And that didn't mean that we didn't have challenges, but in terms of interacting with her, it was always love. It was always just good. It was always us getting to the meat, you know? That is so important. And I just want to also emphasize, it's like that mentality of what Alicia Keys set. Mm-hmm.

of finding the right energy i don't care how talented you are i don't care what your resume is that's right the same thing is like i feel like hiring in a company right or like the company you keep you know i don't care what your background is i don't care how much of an ace you are yeah well i don't care what diploma you have from what school because at the end of the day what does that really mean right you know i mean i care about who you are and what you what you stand for yeah

Because, you know, we on our deathbeds, we don't really remember what people said exactly. We don't always remember what people did either. But we do remember the way we feel. We do. And so the way you feel who's around me and how does that make me feel? And so she was one that was really intentional. And I'm so grateful. Kelly Rowland is another one who I love that lady.

I love her. In fact, she's the first person that bought my first bike at SoulCycle in America. And because I told her that, you know, I was interested in becoming a cycling instructor. And, you know, a friend of mine, he says, hey, you know, I would take his class at Equinox. And he said, you know, you should you should do SoulCycle. You should be an instructor at SoulCycle. And I was like, never heard of it. Don't know what it means. Whatever. I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Then I'm on, you know, we're in Germany with Kelly Rowland. I'm scrolling her Instagram and I see it. I follow him. Okay, this is SoulCycle. Cool. And, you know, allow me to think about a little bit more. And so at dinner we're sitting and I'm like, she's talking about how she loves SoulCycle and how she goes to SoulCycle. I'm like, huh, okay. I thought about teaching there and she says, I'm going to buy you a first bike.

And she kept her word. And but beyond that, beyond that, I'm going to backtrack a little bit. Touring with her, you know, all over the place, all over the world. She was always down to earth, always supportive, always supportive of us, of our individual journeys outside of us dancing with her.

you know, people wanted to sing and record music. She put them in touch with the vocal coach. Like she was with that person who was very hands-on and very, very supportive and loving. And I love her. I love her. Like she was like giving it back, truly giving it back. Um, she gave, you know, bonus money, you know, one time it wasn't expected for Christmas, just, but it wasn't about the amount. It was just the fact that she intended to gift and intended to make connection. And that was one way she, you know, showed love.

And we always ate dinners together. It was a family affair. And I'll always respect her and appreciate her for that. And so I came back to her investing in me, you know, being a cycling instructor. And here I am opening a spin studio in Shanghai now. You know, one of my own. Yeah, so at that point, you didn't even know what these were. You didn't even know what SoulCycle was. You had no idea. Zero. And now you are here in Shanghai opening one of your own. At the Anders. Right. Right? Right.

So to her, that's pretty, pretty, pretty great. Yeah. To her, to everyone involved, you know, I said, thank you. So working with artists again, there was more of like, what was my state of mind, my state of being, you know, with these people. And that's what made the outcome so beautiful. And Nicole Scherzinger, another one just,

down earth. You eat off your plate, you eat off her plate. There's superhuman type of people who... Wait, who? Nicole Scherzinger from the Pussycat Dolls. Oh, shit, okay, yeah, yeah. They came back together just now, too. And just people who, you know, again, people look at celebrities and their lives are on blast. And, you know...

So that's where social media, like I gotta be this or I gotta be that. But everyone is going through their own experience and that could be there. Everyone's going to have their level 10 in life of like, I can't take this shit. Everyone's going to have their moment of like, what? This is too much. Everyone's going to have that. And so,

Every artist, every person, every doctor, every whomever is going to go through things. And so that's why we know that anyone and everyone doing something that we value or think is amazing, the giants, people creating these huge corporations, we can do it too. We are those same people. We're all made out of the same stuff. Literally. Literally. Let's go.

Well, Santron, man, this was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for coming. I'm so grateful to be here. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I feel like, I mean, I'm going to speak for myself and maybe even for Justin. What you've shared today has basically expounded upon what we've always been thinking about

And we've kind of dived in a little bit deeper from your perspective, which has made us even more clear moving forward. And that's what we hope that the listeners also feel that way as well. And just going on with what Justin was saying is like,

Thank you so much for coming onto the show. Thank you for having me. And, you know, we hope to have you back in the future. I would love it. You've only been in Shanghai for like not even half a year, right? Just about half a year. Just about half a year. We haven't even gotten into your experiences about what it's like to be in Shanghai. I want to talk about that. That's a whole nother, that's a different episode. That's another episode. Like I want to, I want to dive in next time about Shanghai life. I want to dive in and like, you know, maybe like, you know, how, how has it been going, you know, since being here and stuff like that. But yeah,

I think this is a great introduction to you and to your beliefs and to a great mindset. And thank you for sharing, bro. Thank you, guys. Cheers. Cheers. I'm Howie. I'm Justin. All right, guys. Thank you. Thank you.

Bye.