How to Speak Up for Yourself: Simple Strategies for Being Heard
56:57 Share

The malos podcast is proudly sponsored by omega insurance are exclusive insurance partner. As amica says, empathy is our best policy. That's why they'll go above and beyond to tailor your insurance coverage to best fit your needs, whether you're on the road, at home or traveling along life journey, their friendly and knowledgeable representatives will work with you to ensure you have the right cover in place.

Amec a will provide you with piece of mind, go to amica outcome and get a today holiday shopping can be overwhelming, but maces gift guide makes IT so easy to get everything you need for the holidays all in one place with hand pick gifts for everyone on your list, and you can easily shop by Price or category from ug slippers, dior makeup and lockers, pots to dimension board games, and so much more. Take the guessing out of the gifting this year and lean on maces to help you find the perfect give for your loved ones. Is IT macy dot com slash give guide? Hey, it's your friend, man.

And today we are having a difficult conversation on the male Robin's podcast. So let just jump. Okay, you're ready because pliny to talk, and I bet just hearing those words we need to talk, doesn't IT make your arms pitch start to sweat.

I know whenever anybody text me or sends me email and they write the words, hey male, I have something that I need to talk to you about. I suddenly feel like its fourth grade male, and i'm about to get crowded. And so first things first, yes, we are talking about difficult conversations today, but take a deep breath, relax.

You and I are not having a difficile conversation today. You have a front rose seat as i'm coaching four listeners of the mellow abb's podcast or just like you who need to have a difficult conversation with someone in their life. Now they've been avoiding IT, they've been thinking about IT, and now they've reached out and they are seeking advice for the best way to handle those conversations that we all need to have at some point in our lives.

And that's what we're going to unpack today. And if you ran new to the mell Robin's podcast, welcome. I'm mell Robins on in new york times vessels author and one of the world's leading experts on change motivation and habits.

And today you're getting the rules, the tactics, the strategies that are going to empower you to have these hard conversations. You'll learn the three main reasons why you and I avoid these conversations. And that's important because when you know which of the three categories are in, it's going to help you create a strategy.

You're also gona learn when do you actually need to have a conversation and when do you not need to have one. And you're also gone to leave this podcast with scripts. That's right.

You're going to know exactly what you need to say to start these conversations, to have these conversations. And you're also going to know how to handle yourself if the conversation does go off the rails. Now i'm super excited for these coaching sessions today because they're gna help you.

They're going to help you tap into the courage inside of you. And I want that. I want you to live your life with the strength and freedom to express yourself.

And a lot of times you know what that means. That means you have to have difficult conversations. This is the perfect episode, by the way, to share with somebody that you know who may be struggling with the same issue are already awesome.

We're onna. Start off with a listener who has a question about a friend issue. And having a difficult conversation with a friend, you will relate to this one because I should do.

hi mill, it's kodiak. I have a question about dealing with conflict, especially when you have a lot of childhood trauma and makes you extremely conflict. Avoid that.

Currently, i'm gearing up to reopen a conversation with a friend who lashed out at me last week. This is a person who I honestly wish that I could just let go. Like you talked about in one of your earlier episode.

Des, unfortunately, he is inter twined with a large fire group, which makes IT difficult to just step away and move on. What I hope to do in this conversation is set boundaries about moving forward with our relationship. Basically, i'm going to be downgrading the level of closely by saying that I would like to limit our interactions to being in person because being in a group chat with her is what has driven all our conflict.

I also want to try to validate her feelings while i'm really clear on this, and I have worked through this in several extra therapy sessions, dealing with the anxiety leading up to IT and the courage to simply begin IT can get overwhelming, and I sometimes wish I could just escape and hide. Anyway, I would love some tips on how to start this tough conversation and maybe some tips on things I need to keep in mind when I talk to her. Thanks so much for your work and content. Have a great day.

katia. First of all, I love you. And you're right sometimes just let him go or moving on. It's not really the best option. So I commend you for wanting to just have the conversation and try to deal with IT like an adult. And i'm also glad that you told me what you hope to achieve. And I wish we could all have friends like cloudy a who have something that they need to say, who are willing to talk to about IT, who are worried enough about a going right that she's spending time and therapy working through IT and that she's reaching out. I mean, that is the sign of a great friend.

And as you listen to the advice and all the questions are come in today, I want you to listen with intention because there we're gonna times where your clodia and you've got something that you really want to to say to a friend and you don't know how to do IT and you think about IT and IT just makes you nervous to think about bringing IT up. And then guess what, there are times that we are all on the receiving end of a difficult conversation because we've acted in a way where we didn't realize that the way that we've been behaving really is bothering somebody else. And so there's so much here to cover, and here's where I want to start.

First of all, thank you, clodia. I love your thoughtful question. The details really help. And I want to start by unpacking the three main reasons why you and I avoid hard conversations to begin with.

So one of the main reasons why is you don't know what to say, like you're not even sure how to start the conversation. And I know that somebody in my family is going through this right now. They called me because bonuses came in and they were really frustrated with the bonus that they got.

And they wanted talk to their boss about IT. And, you know, he doesn't know how to start that conversation because the boss has already told him that, hey, profits were down. This is all I can do.

I would like to give you more, but I can. And he feels demoralize like IT makes them not even want to stay at the job. So that's a hard conversation to have with your boss. And so he called me because he doesn't know what to say.

And so if you're sitting there going, i'm in the same situation as katia or i'm in the same situation as your family member mal, who called you disappointed with my bonus and you don't know how to start IT, this is really Normal and we're gona give you some tools today. So the second reason why we avoid hard conversations is because you think, what's not my responsibility? And a group chat is the perfect example of that.

In fact, i'm going away on a women's weekend and there are eight of us going away and i'm super excited. But we all met as part of a larger group. And i'm sure you've had this experience where I didn't plan IT, but now i'm trying to feel like you are other people going to feel left out.

Should I says, should I not say something? This is my responsible. What do I do? I don't know. And that's an example of when you freeze a little bit because you are like, what should somebody else say this because i'm just invited, you know, should I raise something I know and the point is, is that if you feel uncomfortable, you should raise IT period. Doesn't matter if it's a group chat, doesn't matter if somebody else is event.

If you feel uncomfortable or you feel this discomfort about something, just raise IT think about not the content, just think about the context like what's the tone who do you say IT to um there are ways to deliver the message in a way that is a little bit softer and a little bit more um diplomatic but you should still say what you need to say because this is about self expression. But the third reason why we avoid difficult conversations is the big one. It's one that we are all guilty of. And IT is the need to be liked, the need to keep the piece, the need to not upset anybody. And there's lots of words that we can throw into this giant casual of avoiding difficult conversations.

For example, claims are related to one of the words and that childhood trauma, if you have any kind of childhood trauma, if you grow up in a uh, household where parents were unpredictable or abusive or there is a lot conflict in yelling or you got the silent treatment, you basically were in a situation where any kind of confrontation, any kind of upset made you scared as a kid and what happens when you grow up with that kind of trauma or stress or conditioning in your household is that you're basically trained to be very conflict avoiding. You are trained to keep the piece. You are trained not to upset somebody.

And this is really common. And so if you find that you freeze when the thought of having a difficult conversation entered your mind, you're not alone. I have a very, very close friend whose mom was severely emotionally abusive, not physically abusive, emotionally abusive.

SHE would deploy the silent treatment for weeks, like, literally act as though her daughter didn't exist. My dear friend is now an adult who avoids conflict at all cost, because as a kid, he was trained by her mother that if you do something that makes me upset, you don't exist. And so that kind of freezing is very, very real. And in fact, if you noticed in audi's question, SHE looked to the fact that he knows that this is tied to childhood trauma. SHE knows that the a thought of upsetting somebody or causing some sort of conflict that IT makes her freeze.

And so Claudia, that's another incredible thing that I want to point out and acknowledged for us, the self awareness that there is a difference between that kind of childhood trauma that is now impacting you as an adult and your abilities in adult to recognize that that's a play and to take proactive strategic steps to act in aligned with the woman you want to be now, which is a courageous woman that can have these conversations and that can draw these boundaries. Now, before I start to unpack more of the story with audio, I also want to highlight something that I don't think we think about a lot, and that is that we assume that if we avoid the conversation, IT somehow disappears. We make the mistake of believing that if we don't have the difficult conversation, if we don't have the conflict, if we don't ruffle somebody's fathers, that somehow things are you going to be more comfortable, right? I mean, that's why you're avoiding IT.

You think keeping the pieces Better? Have you noticed that avoiding a difficult conversation just creates this difficult feeling inside of you that as you are actively avoiding IT, you are thinking about the conversation as you are struggling with how to start IT, and you walk into a room and you see the person you need to have this conversation with, you can feel the discomfort inside of you. And so we sit here and tell ourselves a lie that avoiding IT will make a Better.

When the truth is, it's the avoidance of these harder, difficult conversations that discomfort inside of all of us. And a lot of times what i've found when i've had these conversations is the other person didn't even know I was upset and IT wasn't until I found the courage to have the conversation, that I relieved myself of the discomfort and I empowered the situation to get Better. And I love cautious question, because I think this is so common and friendships that we do have issues with friends, and that's okay.

You can have issues with friends, and part of friendship is having the respect for somebody else to be able to say when something isn't working because people can feel when he is off. okay? And i've got a really close friend that had a very similar issue to audio where she's part of a large friend group.

Their kids are all friends and there's no xing this person out of the friend group because the kids are all friends. And there's lots of times in your life where you're going to have family members or kids that are friends with other people and you don't really drive with the person that you. Therefore, I like IT just as part of life.

And I remember this friend of mine saying there is this one person in the friend group who is a drama queen, constantly making IT about ourself, constantly causing issues within the friend group. And finally, my friend said to this person in person, look, we're just not ever going to be best friends, but for the sake of this friend group and for the sake of our kids, let's just rise about this and let just leave IT at that. Let's stop trying to be good friends because we're just not going to, but we can be cordial.

And maybe that's what cloudy is gonna to do. In fact, I wanted to understand more about the specific thing that was going on with Claudia and this friend. So I reached out to her and he has got more details.

You're gona hear those details, plus my six simple steps to a hard conversation. All of that is coming up when we return. Oh, i'm so excited to tell you about one of our sponsors or a frames. I love them.

why? Because like me, proba took a million photo this year. Oakly graduated from high school. Chris, I went on this unforgettable vacation together.

Our family climbed mk katon, where the photos are Normally they be on my phone, but not anymore. Why I have an ora digital photo frame. IT sits on my kitchen counter.

I gave one of my parents, it's on their kitchen counter. I gave you to kendall, who lives in la oakly, up in a dorm room or is a digital frame, looks and feels like a Normal picture frame. But check this out. You just send photos to IT and all the sudden your photos are right there everywhere and IT updates all the time and your family can update IT I free love IT it's the best gift to give yourself.

It's the best gift to give everyone else and for a limited time visit or a frames dot com and get forty five five dollars off or as best selling cover mount frames by using the code ml a check out that's A U R A frame start compromise. Well, this exclusive black friday cyber monday deal is their best to the year, so don't you dare miss out. Terms and conditions apply as A B to b marketer.

You know how noisy the ads space can be if your message isn't targeted to the right audience, IT just disappears into the with linked in ads, you can precisely reach the professionals who are more likely to find your ad relevant. With link targeting capabilities, you can reach them by job title, industry company and more. You'll have direct access to and build ships with decision makers.

A billion members, one hundred and thirty million senior level executives and ten million sea level executives stand out with linked in ads and start converting your B2B aud ience and to hig h qua lity lea ds to. What i've learned first hand is that lindon can help you find the people who can actually move the needle for your business. I can't imagine working without IT start converting your B2B aud ience in the hig h qua lity lea ds tod ay.

They'll even give you a hundred dollar credit on your next campaign. Go to linton doc sash mail to claim your credit that's linked in slash mell terms and conditions apply linked in the place to be to be. This show is sponsored by Better hell for me decembers all about cozy nights at home.

I'm talk in soft lankester t tea, sinking into the out with my family nearby and the fireplace where there's some about that kind of comfort that just feel so good, isn't there? But you wanted, know what, comfort doesn't have to be something you only feel for a month. And if I be an ice, the best gift i've ever given myself is the kind of comfort that comes from working on myself, especially through therapy.

It's a way to keep that cozy, grounded, wrapped up in a blanket, feeling all you're along no matter what life throws your way. So if you've been thinking about starting therapy, check out Better help. It's a super easy way to get started.

You just take a quick question here to match you with a license therapies, and it's all online. You can switch therapies anytime without any extra charges. Find the right person for you. Find comfort this december with Better help. This is a Better help that comes such small Robin today to get ten percent off your first month as Better help H, L, P that come such malroy ts.

Welcome back. I melt Robins. Today you and I are talking about difficult conversations, why we need to have them, and more importantly, how you can have them. So we were just talking about katia, who is having an issue with a friend in a big friend group, and this woman was like blowing up in group chats. And cloudier is really triggered, SHE stressed out about having a hard conversation with her. And so I ask korea, can you give me a little bit more detail about what actually happened with this friend so that I can use the details to walk you through six steps of how you have a hard conversation? And this is what cloudy I had to say.

This conflict comes after many smaller ones were even minor disagreement with my friend, such as not liking the same things with them resulted in disproportionate anger and statements. There was something wrong with me in the current conflict. My friends flew into a rage and really late into me when I could not return. Her call is clear. I would like, I have felt like i'm walking on exists with this friend for over a year, so i'm ready to set some boundaries and protect my piece.

Wow, katia, ah I commend you because I think a lot of us would just be like i'm just gonna this person. I'm just slowly going to exit stage left. And I commend you koda, because I don't think this conversation will necessarily change the other person, but finding the courage to have this difficult conversation will change you, because every time you tap into your courage and you take actions that empower a higher version of yourself and empower yourself expression and help you protect your peace and advance your values, you become a Better you.

And so the first thing I would do is I would stop calling this person a friend, because friends don't rage on each other like that, not all the time. And now what I want to do is I want to give you a tool. So this is the first tool that I want you to take away when he comes to those moments, when you feel you need to start a hard conversation.

The tool is no. You're why you have to know why you want to have this conversation. What are you hoping to get out of this? This is really important because your why is going to anchor you?

As you think about the structure of how you're gonna this conversation, your y cauda is you want to protect your peace. That's a great why, and the why you want to protect your peace is everything. And i'm going to keep coming back to IT as we talk about the structure of a hard conversation.

And for you listening, I want you to think about your y OK. The y could be that I need to find the courage to speak up at work. The one might be, i'd actually like to improve this friendship.

The why might be, I need to start sticking up for myself. Or the y could be, claudius, I need more piece of my life and i'm not onna get IT by trying to not let IT bother me because IT does bother me. And protecting my piece means speaking up for my piece.

So take away, number one, everybody. You need to know you're why. And then you have to pick a specific example that you're gonna point to as something concrete, very factual, that you can anchor the conversation around.

You want to narrow IT to something that has a time, a place, something very specific, that has specific facts to IT. When you called me on tuesday and left a message and I didn't respond, you then texted back in all caps doing blobby, blobby blood, you just, anna, describe what happened very fast. okay?

I don't want a lot of adjective, because anything that becomes a little bit bigger, the person's going to be on the defense. okay? So you're gonna explain something recent, something factual so that you anchor the conversation on one specific incident.

That's really important because we're going to ultimately flip the surround to how I made you feel because not really about what the other person did because they're going to argue about that, but they can argue about the impact, intentional or unintentional, that I had on you. Now we're going to talk about guidelines. And again, we will link to all the resources and any studies or any articles that we refer to in this episode.

And then i'm going to give you my formula for difficult conversations. So number one, harvard business review, don't ever assume that your point is obvious because most of the time is not that obvious. Now I think people are very self aware when IT comes to how you feel about yourself, but we have a huge blind spot when IT comes to how we occur for other people.

And I have a personal example of this being a really crappy friend to somebody. So I had been friends with this person for a very long time. We'd raised our kids together.

IT was during the period of time where Chris's restaurants were in major financial crisis, we were profoundly scrambling financially. And IT was just a really bad time. And this friend of mine who had known me for a long time had no idea.

I know this was going on, and I had no idea. 对。 SHE was starting to feel like I was using her for babysitting.

The truth is, I D never thought about IT that way because I was in such survival mode and in such a panic that I was doing whatever I could to work, to bring in any money that I could. And I needed help, but I wasn't really great about asking for IT or sharing what was going on. And IT wasn't obvious to me how this was coming across to my friends.

Well, finally, this friend had had enough with me, and he didn't confront me right away. What he did instead is he was having a birthday party and SHE didn't invite me. Every one of our friends was invited to this massive party.

And I only found out the next day because a couple friends were like, hey, why weren't IT so on those party? And I was like, what party? I knew immediately that IT was intentional, that we weren't invited and that I had done something profoundly wrong. And I had felt for months like the energy and the vibe was really off.

And this goes to this point that i'm trying to make that these uncomfortable conversations just create discomfort when you don't have them, you know, when somethings off, you know, when somebody y's kind of matter you but you don't know quite why it's not obvious to you because again, i'm going to say this over and over. We're in our own heads. We're dealing with their own issues.

And while we might be aware of what we are dealing with internally, we usually have a massive, massive blind spot to how we are showing up for. Other people are not showing up or how our behavior looks from the outside. And at this period of time, nobody knew that I was struggling with drinking, and nobody knew that, Christina, I were eight hundred thousand dollars in debt.

Nobody knew that we had leans on the house where that Chris wasn't getting paid. And we are hiding all of that. We are just scrambling. And i'll never forget how scared I was when I picked up the phone that morning, because I had no idea what I had done.

And I called, and I got a voice smell, and I just said, I know i've done something wrong, and I would love to know what IT is. And IT was one of the hardest phone calls i've ever had to make, and that LED to one of the most gut ranching and difficult conversations i've ever been a part of. And if I put myself in her shoes, what SHE shared with me was right, that I was absent.

I was always working. I made my friends feel like I was their babysitting service while I was working. Nobody knew what the how was going on, that I had clearly changed, that IT seemed like my values had changed.

IT was very, very painful to hear and IT wasn't obvious to me. And I really appreciate my friend for saying what needed to be said because i'm sure IT wasn't easy for her to say either, but he was the only one who did. And I wish he would have set IT before I gotten to that point.

And I think that's why these conversations are also important because you don't know what's going on with somebody else, you don't know if they're really struggling, you don't know what's going on behind the closed doors, and you should assume they don't have a clue either coming off because ninety nine percent of the time when i've had these hard conversations or i've been the one that somebodies had a hard conversation with, I didn't know, they didn't know. And it's only through the courage of having that conversation that you know and then you can do Better. And you know, I will also tell you that our friendship was very off for years, and it's been in recent years that we have found our way back to one another.

But i'll tell you what I trusted more than most people, because I know he will tell me now, and he knows I will tell her now, and I love for that. So it's not always obvious, and you should assume that. And that's why it's important to go into these conversations with a little bit of compassion, very specific examples because you know, again, going back to the situation with my friend, I could explain, and I did a nosier, all of the things that were going on that made me appear the way that I appeared.

And I could apologize like crazy IT doesn't change the fact that unintentionally, I made somebody feel that way and that sucks. But i'm grateful for the fact that I got a chance to hear that out, to apologize and to do Better honestly. So that's number one.

Don't assume your point is obvious. And this matters because IT brings compassion to the way that you think about this. IT makes you step in the other person, choose for just a second, even if there are annoying, outrageous.

Ash le, second thing from harvard business review, this is huge. Do not exaggerate. Don't go under that. You always do this. You always do that. You always do the other thing, because even thinking back to that conversation, IT did become a piled on.

There was one instance that my friend referred to, and I immediately felt crushed because I knew exactly what he was talking about, and I could see why I matter, feel that way. Then IT just became like in this and that and you just need one thing really. But when you also get to the point where you're like you always do this or you always do that or you always do the other thing, IT does make the person shut down.

That's on the receiving in. And IT also makes them extremely defensive because IT does feel like an exaggeration. Somebody y's not always one way.

And if you have just one example, IT usually things enough and it's enough to have one example to unpack the dynamic and your feelings. And trust me. Even if the person doesn't respond the way you want them to, you've dropped a grenade in their head.

It's gona go off later. These kinds of conversations stay with people. As you can tell, in the way that I explain that conversation, IT stays with me decades later.

So keep IT to one example, because that's all you need. okay. Now I want to give you the six simple steps that I use whenever ver, I need to have a difficult conversation. And you know, as a baseline, also want to say something else you should try to have these conversations in person, and if you can't have them in person, have them on zoo.

M, the reason why i'd like having them in person or having them on zoom is because when you can see the person's facial expressions, IT just brings a whole level of humanity and understanding and connection to these conversations. And there's way too much they can get misinterpreted if you're on the phone and never have this stuff over text or over email, do not do that because I think that's a lot of why we need difficult conversations because there is so much that gets misinterpreted with the written word. Okay, so in person on zoom.

So let me give you all six in the time, and I pack them using cloudy as example. So step number one, you start the conversation by stating your y step number two, you're going to have a specific singular example of what happened. And then step number three, you are going to state how IT made you feel.

I felt acts when this specific thing happened. Step number four, you're gonna listen with your mouth shut. Step number five, you're gonna validate whatever you hear, because whatever you hear is there lived experience.

And when you validate whatever you hear, IT takes this from an argument back into a conversation. And then six and final, how you ended how you get out of this is you state your way again. And if you have any request related to a boundary or a change in behavior you stated then, and that's IT.

So let me unpack this with quarter as example. Okay, so cloudy is why is very simple. I want to protect my piece. That's her. Why then she's gonna have in mind a specific example that happened, and I would recommend that SHE anchor in on the most recent thing.

And based on what he said, the most recent thing is that this friend got really upset with cloudier because katia did not return a phone call in the amount of time that this friend expected Claudia to return the phone call after saying, you know, I, I, I really want to protect my piece. I want to figure out how we can, like, remove the friction between us. And I want to talk specifically about when you ve got upset with me last week because I didn't return your phone call in the of time I thought I should return IT.

Now what cloudy is gonna is I felt attacked or I felt triggered. You know, I have a lot of past trauma when you came at me for something that I felt like I didn't do anything wrong. I literally felt like that little kid again that was getting in trouble for for something I didn't do wrong like I don't O U A phone call back um and that's how I felt when you lashed out at me then you're onna, listen, is there anything that you wanna say about what happened? And SHE might be just dominating stress at you.

Just listen, you know, a tactic that I use, I call IT the snow globe. I imagine the person just inside a snow globe that shaking up and all that crap coming out of their mouth. I just kind of let IT stay in snow globe with them.

And if you can find one thing to validate, like maybe what you're going to learn is i'm really you and hopefully they apologize. Maybe they don't, but maybe what you're gona hear is i've just really stressed out. I really needed you and you know, a lock going on and and I told you that I need you to call me back ba ba ba.

All you're gna say is I hear you, you needed me. You told me that you needed me to call you back. I can understand how that would make you upset.

That's IT. That's IT. And in six, you say you're why? Again, I just need to protect my piece and I went to remove the drama. And so moving forward, please know I do not return phone calls on demand.

And if you need an immediate response, I recommend that you text me and you tell me that you need an immediate response, and I will at least get back to you to let you know if I can respond or not. And that IT, that's IT. That is the anatomy of how you have a difficult conversation.

And your, why is the most important part? Because imagine if cloudy went in saying, I really want to care this friendship. The conversation goes a little bit differently, right?

Because when you say, want to protect your peace and dissipate the drama between us. And so let's talk about what happened last week, because when you did that, I felt this. And that makes me not want to text you and make, I don't want that.

I want to just dissipate the drama. Know what do you need to say and i'll listen validity. But imagine if quality, I went in and said, I really want to repair this friendship.

That is a very different tones to IT, right? Your why is everything, which is why you got ta know IT going in. And it's why the specific example matters too. Now you have very specific takeaway already in this episode for having a difficult conversation.

When we come back, you're going to meet a woman who is having a lot of problems with her husband's x and he wants to know, should I even have a conversation with this person? Is this might be a waste time. We're going to tackle that when we come back.

You know what? There's one thing that I know about you because you listen to this podcast that you have big ambitions. You care about your goals. And the question is, are you there yet? If you're not, that's a good thing.

The highest achiever s among us all are the people who are still striving, people like you still reaching for something beyond what's right in from you. And for people who approached the impossible and embrace IT, there's a vehicle for you. It's called the defender.

This iconic vehicle now has a cool and sleep and modern design, which is called the defender one ten. The defender one ten is legendary. Whether you want to face off road chAllenges or harsh weather conditions, this car is engineer to me, chAllenges head on, just like you to drive.

The defender is to explore with greater confidence, plus this car has an awesome driver display, the confident seats and camera technologies. For anyone who can't seem to park without one, explore the defender at landrover USA 点 com。 That's landrover U S.

A dot com. I love everything about the holidays, the lights, the cozy iss, the family time, but i'm going, to be honest, stand on top of shopping for everyone, not so much. So I usually feel like him all over the place when holiday shopping season began.

But this year I found skin holiday shop and oh my gosh, game changer. It's now my one go to spot where I check off everyone on my list, and I don't have to worry about forgetting someone stressing over what to get. One of my absolute favorite finds the cozy rope is super soft, warm and just perfect for holiday logic.

Oh, and my other favorite, the soft lawn sleep, said, my new one is in red sawyers already stolen that one. Now it's gone because she's got IT. These pj are buttery, super cozy, and their new holiday colors are gorgeous.

Shop skims holiday shop, its skin that come available in styles for women, men, kids and even pets. If you having yet be sure to let them know, we sent you have, do you place your order, select podcast in the, and select our show, the mall, rob's podcasts and the drop down menu that follows. Do you know what the hacks is in your laundry detergent? I didn't neither until I actually took the time to read the label. All free clear is the number one laundry detergent brand recommended by dermatologists, allergists and p attractions for sensitive can is an effective, clean that gentleman skin while removing impurities like dirt, body oil without leaving irritable residues for a clean you can feel good about all you need is all free clear.

Welcome back, I ml Robins. And today you and I are tackling difficult conversations. How to have them, when to have them, why you need to have them.

And up next you're about to hear from america, SHE wrote in, because her husband's x girlfriend is very present in their relationship, and eric has head enough. Listen, hello, mal ec ka, my husband has an its geiringer end with two Young daughters. They have been separated for more than two of years, but he is very controlling.

Ten guard will live in a different day, miles sin, miles away from her. I would, the time we go visit his daughters and my husband, family. SHE wants to be present in every single activity.

I always try to be my best to tolerate hair, but her petition is ridiculous. What can I do or how I can make this situation Better for myself? Thank you, erica.

I love your question, and I love you for writing in with us. And thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. And look, first of all, this woman's beef is with your husband and with life in general. It's not with you and you can't fix that.

And so number one, I want you to be honest with yourself. Are you upset because of her? Are you upset because your husband will not deal with this head on?

Maybe you're not the one who needs to have the conversation. Maybe your husband needs to have the difficult conversation and needs to start, settle boundaries. And the bottom is, is that if she's upset with your husband, or upset with the separation, or upset with life in general, you can fix that.

You just can't. And so I personally feel like what's gone to benefit you the most is a strategy to talk about the conversation in a minute that you could have. The first I want to talk about the strategy.

You got to ized about this. You you said i'm trying to, mel, but there's something about this that is hooking you and I personally think it's not the x girlfriend. I think it's your husband and how he's dealing with this and how he's letting the bullshit side.

But that's just my assumption. I could be wrong. But for you, rising above IT means not letting the ex get her hooks in you.

And there's a great strategy that doctor romney, who is the world's leading expert on veris m, uh, she's bent on the podcast twice. And SHE calls this strategy gray rocking, which basically means whenever ver you are around the x be like a grey rock. You're so boring, you don't even notice.

You're not trigger by anything. You keep your answer short. You're not that interested in this woman's life.

You're not trying to be her friend. You're just let her petals be like water dripping off a gray rock. And when you're grey rock, you're also not her target.

So imagine a great rock every time you're about to see the X A second way that you can rise above this is every time you see your husband's X I want you to see a seven year old girl having a ridiculous tantrum. That's what her petty ss is. She's trying to get your, just like a seven year old would try to get your attention.

I want you to put in your mind a little seven year old version of your husband's acts. Put her in a ridiculous little dress up dress, then sticker inside that snow globe. And every time he does something petting, or something annoying or something ridiculous, you're just going to imagine that seven year old version of her in a ridiculous little party dress throwing in time.

Trump, because, because then everybody get that her way to get power. SHE just loves IT when SHE irritate you. why? Because now she's the center of attention.

But you're not going to buy into that anymore, are you? Because you're either are going to be a gray rock you and be so damn boring that everything just roles right off. You're not even really paying attention.

You don't add any fuel to the fire or you're going to a gig letter because you throwing a time term seven year old and her party trust you can really pity because it's the only thing he has in life. You know, that's what you going to do that helps you emotionally unhook yourself IT helps you stay separate. And that is going to help you not have to have a difficult conversation.

Because I personally think if you're going to have a conversation, you need to have IT with your husband and you need to tell him that he's got a step up because every time he does and and SHE acts petty, IT makes you feel a certain way and that IT makes you feel like you don't respect them or whatever IT may be. It's just frustrating to you the other way that you could step into this if you think about your why and maybe your why if you're gona have this conversation with your husband is you can't stand watching her walk all over him or maybe your why is something more powerful and here's the more powerful why his daughters are watching. And kids don't learn by hearing what we say.

Kids learn by watching what we do. And if the why is big enough, that the adults rise above this bullshit for the sake of the daughters, that we got to lose this petty crap for the sake of the daughters? Because you know what, whether you like IT or not, the way the x is dealing with your husband and the way that your husband refuses to deal with his ex, that is modeling a relationship for the daughters.

And so for the sake of the daughters, you could have the hard conversation with your husband and with the ex, but you gotta figure out what the y is for you. You know, again, i'm gna say what I said to cordia. Maybe this is happening because you're the one that's the bigger one.

Maybe you're in all of their lives because you're the one that's gonna break the chain of behavior. Maybe you're the one that is here because your mental tap into the courage inside you to hold all of you to a higher standard. And look, maybe the x isn't capable of IT, maybe there is so much trauma and resentment and SHE hasn't done the work and it's easier to be angry and pet and all that self because you know, when somebody's angry and pet is just pain that's IT.

They don't know how to tolerate pain for the attack. People in their petty and they seek attention. But when you get clear on your way, I wanted to talk to you because I would really love for the sake of the girls first to rise above this.

And when x happened, I felt x, and I think we can do Better. When you do that, you've got a chance to transform the family dynamic. And remember, you're only going to use one example, and then you're gona give time for your husband or the extra respond.

And two things we're gonna happen, especially when you're dealing with somebody who's petty or volatile, either the person is gna listen and how we should they apologize. Like there's something in you rising above the noise that is almost like a hand that helps them step up and rise above the noise. I might surprise you.

You know you could be the force that changes everything because maybe the ex and your husband had been locked in this stupid as dynamic for so long. They don't know anything else, but you're the one that could demand something new. Or if when they listen, they don't apologize, they immediately react like that seven year old in the party dress like throwing yet another.

How, gare, you say that all you say is calmly. I'm not blaming you. I'm explaining how something made me feel. I'm expressing a concern. And if you don't have the capacity to hear that, that's okay.

Thank you for at least letting me say that because I i'm committed to being a Better example for the girls you restate your why boom and you're out and don't forget the most important peace you're having this conversation for you. It's not about your husband, it's not about his ex. It's about you being self expressed.

It's about you taking a stand for what you want and not caring what anybody else thinks. But I know that you might be thinking as you listen to me. Yeah, that's great.

That's great for her. But what if the reaction does scare me? What if I do have this hard conversation? I asked for what I need and then they are roped. Well, you're not the only one of service about that because that's exactly what canada is worried about.

Hi, mail is canas. I listen to the episode about people pleasing and absolutely loved IT. I have tried this strategy of taking a pause before answering more than once.

My question is, how do you handle family members who won't accept a pause or a delayed response? What happens when, instead of allowing you apple is the person gets combat tive or aggressive? How do you stop the guilt from forcing you to answer?

Candice, thank you for this question. You know, one thing you might want to do, canal, is also go and listen to the episode we did about attachment styles, because you might be dealing with somebody who has an anxious attachment style. And we had an incredibly amazing expert and doctor on that episode. SHE teaches about attachment styles and that framework might help you and said, family member, so that's the first thing that comes to mind.

The second thing that comes to mind is I want to make sure that when you say the person gets aggressive, that they're not crossing over into abusive, there's a big difference between somebody getting triggered when you go, I need time, and then feeling anxious that they are gonna lose you, or they need to stay connected to you, or they got to control you in this moment of uncertainty, and somebody being abusive, uh, abusive, you need to get some help if you're dealing with somebody who's clingy and annoying that's anxious attached in style. I know IT because I have IT and my husband, ten needs a pause when we're kind of in a difficult conversation. So here's the thing you said the word guilt and that's why I think you're dealing with an attachment style thing or you need time to process and this family member once an answer now and then you feel bad that they're like hounding you about this.

You have to double down on your needs. And here's what I would recommend. I'm going to give you a script that you can take and make your own.

When you request a pause, you're in a conversation, you say, I need to think about IT. Here's what you're going to do. okay?

So I wanna a change, this frustrating dynamic between us. And because you come out me, I need a pause because I feel scared. And here's the tactic you're gonna use.

Okay, here's the thing that a person with anxious attachment style needs to hear from you. I need a pause. And here's my promise. My promises I will give you an answer in an hour. My promises I will give you an answer in the morning.

And if you want to change the dynamic between us, like I want to a change IT, I want to have a Better, healthier er connection. I don't want to fight like this. I want to be able to have these conversations.

I need you to not act like that. I need you to not use that tone of voice. I need you to respect and trust me when I say I need a pause because I am going to tell you how much time I need in order to give you an answer.

And what i'm doing is helping you use a bridge. So, you know, like when you're dropping a little kid off at daycare, what all the experts say that you should do if a kid has separation anxiety is you should say, you're going to have a great day and i'll see you at five o'clock. You're now creating a bridge to when you're coming back.

If you you're dealing with somebody that gets intense or pushy or uses a terrible tone, voice or guilt you to make up your mind, do you do that pressures you? You need to create a bridge. I need to pause.

I need to take a moment and collect myself. I'll be back in an hour to talk about this. I will let you know in the morning, because now you have let this person know that you are coming back.

And so if this is a trigger for them, you are also helping to repair this idea that people that care about you come back, but they got to hold up their end of the bargain. They got to realized that their tone of voice, the way they're behaving, this conversation, is not acceptable. And that's why you need to pause.

And the thing that I want to understand, as you have probably been locked in this dynamic for a while and you're now doing something different. So you probably have been locked in a dynamic where they want an answer, you don't have an answer, they start to raise their voice. You then be an answer.

This was me and my husband. I grew up with a parents that erruptive when they got frustrated. And so I erruptive when I got frustrated. I'm working on IT. And the second that you shift the dynamic, people tend to get more emotionally triggered.

And so when you say, look, this is exactly why i'm doing this because I don't want you yelling at me anymore and I need time to think and you need time to come down, I promise you we will talk about this in the morning, and I love you for respecting the fact you need time to come down and I need time to think. And we will resolve this when we're both a little more clear added that's IT. You can do this. Our final question comes from a woman named Carola. And this question is so good because IT helps me explain the real reason why we need to have difficult conversations.

Hi, man, it's carla. Can you give me advice on how to approach your partner, friends, family members who have trauma and securities or mental health issues without trying to change them or fix them? I absolutely love your podcast, and IT told me tremendously. Thanks mile carl up.

I absolutely love you and your question. And I think it's going to help us all tremendously because at the end of the day, it's not about fixing other people. It's about improving dynamics between people that leave you feeling disempowered, worried or afraid.

That's what it's about. It's really not about the other person. So whether your having a conversation with a friend that goes off the rails at you because you don't call them back or you're having a conversation with your boss because you're upset about something, it's not really about the friend.

It's not really about the boss or getting more money. It's about you accessing your own self expression. It's about you finding the courage to make request so that you feel supported, respected and empowered.

And it's about you expressing concern or holding boundaries for what you will accept and what you won't accept in your life. And that's why these conversations matter because without finding the courage to fully express your highest, most express self, you will know that you are not reaching your potential. You will feel that disruption and that discomfort of knowing that there's something that you need to say that you haven't said, and I don't want that for you.

And when IT comes to family members that you need to have a difficult conversation with, particularly if you're dealing with a family member that is not taking care of themselves, you have to do that not from a place you're write of trying to fix somebody because we can fix other people. We can only express how they are. Behavior, or lack of behavior makes us feel this reminds me of something that happened to me long time ago, but it's still very relevant.

I was in my twice, Chris. I were just engaged and I became really good friends with this woman in at work. And as we became friends, IT was very clear that he was struggling with some disorder eating.

And that became very, very serious when her boy from broke up with her and four months, SHE was complaining about the boyfriend. SHE was complaining about the way that he looked. SHE was complaining about her body.

And I would listen and I would listen, and then I would offer support. And then I would ask her. He thought he should speak to her therapies.

I would ask her. SHE was worried about her mental health or her lack of eating, and SHE would deflect IT and that would make me feel uncomfortable. And I didn't know how to bring that up.

And I was only in my twins, and i'd never really doubt with anything like this, and I didn't know how to support her. And then finally, one day I said, I love you. I'm profoundness worried about you.

And I feel helpless every time you complain about this relationship that spent over four months. And I see you not taking care of yourself. And here's my request, you're no longer allowed to talk about this with me because you're not doing anything to change IT.

I will be here to hang out with you. I'll talk about work with you. I'll talk about the books you're reading with you, but I am no longer available for you to vent about this because you're not doing the second you get into therapy, the second you seek treatment, the second you move on.

I'm here to support you, but I feel like by listening to you, I am part of the problem. SHE caught me out of her life. SHE got a different job.

But i'll tell you some several years later, i'm talking probably ten, fifteen years later, he reached out and said that conversation was so confronting and SHE didn't know how to handle IT, but IT was a tipping point that got her into treatment. People don't change until they're ready to change. But that doesn't mean that you can't have a conversation about your boundaries.

And you need to if somebody is acting in a way where it's scaring you, you need to say something. If somebody's behavior is alarm you, you can draw boundaries. I'm not going to give you money unless you go under treatment.

I am gonna listen to how depressed you are. Unless you get back on your medication. I am not going to let you rent about dad who've been divorced from for ten years.

Mom, you need to freking move on with your life. I'm not here for that. I'm here for you and your future and the healthy you and the happy you.

You can be a stand for that without trying to fix someone. And often times all of us dancing around on egg shells is keeping somebody in that place. Sometimes they need you to be the stronger one, not to tell them what to do, but to say, i'm gonna sit here and watch this happen.

But the second that you need somebody to drive you to rehab, the second that you need somebody to pay for your therapies, the second that you need somebody to hold your hand through this process, I will be there. That is how you talk to somebody. You talk about your feelings, you talk about your fears, you talk about what you're willing to do and what you're no longer willing to do.

And then the other person gets to make a choice. That's how you have that conversation because at the end of the day, that's what these conversations are about. You being your best and highest, most expressed version of yourself.

And that's what I want for you. You know, look, you know what you need to do. The hardest part is starting the conversation.

But the longer you put IT off, the more uncomfortable it's gonna be. IT just builds and builds and builds. Just know it's not gonna go perfectly.

That's okay. Finding the courage, getting the conversation done. IT is so much Better than perfect.

Your health is worth IT. Your confidence is worth IT. Your relationship is worth IT. And you know what? You might just turn out way Better than you ever expected.

And IT will turn out Better than you expected because now you have the tools to empower you to make IT Better then you're fearing right now. And one more thing, in case nobody else tells you today, I wanted tell you that I love you. I believe in you, and I believe in that courage inside of you, that you can tap into IT.

You can express yourself. You can do this. You can face the hard stuff. Now, five, four, three, two, one, go to up.

Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. IT is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. stitcher.

Running a small business takes endurance, determination and the right support to reach your goals, and mastercard is here to help fuel that journey in a fast pace digital world with innovative tools and resources. We are heard a gude businesses every step of the way digitally because when small business, when everyone wins, let's power of our communities, one small business and one step at a time keeping the community running strong.

Celebrity cruises black friday event is so good, you're onna need a bigger bucket list, explore the caribbean, europe or alaska was seventy five percent off your second guess plus bonus savings book today and see why nothing comes close to celebrity cruises. This is a celebrity 点 com， call one hundred celebrity or contact your travel advisor. Offer applies to select sAilings, savings amount varies by state room category, other terms supply, this is celebrity 到 com for details， ships registry, multa and equal.