Defining "Wife": You Can('t) Define "Wife" for Yourself
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Good day, good people. Welcome back. As always, I appreciate you for tuning in to another episode of Imperfectly Phenomenal Woman. I'm Lauren, and in each episode, I chat with everyday women about limiting beliefs that hold us back from living fully and authentically.

So this week, I'm chatting with Carolyn Darville, and I always let guests choose their topic from a list of limiting beliefs that a lot of us hold. And this week, she chose the limiting belief that you can't define wife for yourself. You can't define what it means to be a wife for yourself. A lot of people get pressure from friends, family, society to live up to these expectations of what being a wife means.

And in doing that, sometimes we forget who we are and what we really want and what's important to us. And so in this episode, we talk about balancing independence and unity.

long distance relationships. We do a Google search for the word wife and see what comes up and then we go down a fun rabbit hole. So let's get into it. I always let guests introduce themselves by sharing what brings them joy as a way for you to get to know their spirit. So this is Carolyn and this is what brings her joy. So what brings me joy and has brought me joy throughout my life is

is being able to sing on stage. So right now I'm in a show, it's called The Soul of Broadway, and I've really been enjoying being in a community where I feel like I can be my true self and sing with a bunch of new friends. So I'm really enjoying that. I was literally thinking the other day, I was like, God bless me with a bunch of things, but I can't sing the

And I'm like really salty about it, like really, really salty about it. And so I was literally thinking to myself, I wanted to put a post on social and be like, is singing something that can be learned or is it really something that's just talent?

It can be learned. I think you are born with some talent, a lot of people, but you can definitely learn. I think a lot of actors, they learn how to sing. You just get a voice teacher and they kind of teach you how to access your voice. Look, I might be out here one day, you know? Yeah. I might get me a teacher and I just might be out here. So y'all just wait because I want to sing.

Lauren's coming through. I'm coming through. Yes. Thank you, Carolyn. I received that. Lauren's coming through. Thank you. Well, I appreciate you for introducing yourself. I feel like people got to know you a little bit better. So we'll get into the actual topic.

So each week I talk to different women about limiting beliefs that hold us back from living fully and authentically. And this week, the topic is about defining the word wife and the limiting belief specifically is you can't define wife for yourself. And so why did you choose that topic? Yes.

So I chose this topic because I got married in October of 2022. And my husband got a post overseas. He works for the State Department. And it's just been on my mind lately because I didn't immediately go with him. And a lot of people have a lot of thoughts about that. And I think it's just...

It is kind of that limiting belief of how do you define wife? And I think a lot of people want me to define wife in a certain way. And I'm trying to find it for myself. Yes. I really like the way that you said, like, a lot of people have a lot of thoughts because that is that's truly the world that we live in. A lot of people have a lot of thoughts and they want to put their thoughts on us. But I love how you said you're trying to define it for yourself.

But so when you were growing up, like what were your thoughts towards marriage and the idea of becoming a wife in general? Yeah. So I think with television, movies, books, what I've seen in my personal experience, a wife, you know, is someone who.

is kind of either a rock of a family, you know, if you have kids, that kind of thing, or someone who supports their husband, you know, cooking, cleaning, that kind of stereotypical vision that we've all seen on movies and TV. My mom, she did work full time, a pretty high profile job in banking, but she did make time to cook.

Yeah, for me, yeah.

So my parents are divorced. So I didn't really see wife in that way, you know, like I just didn't see it. And like most of the people in my orbit, they come from divorced families. My grandparents were together, but it wasn't a healthy relationship. So I think my understanding of wife really does come from TV too. You had mentioned TV. So I thought that that was an interesting one that you had said. And with my grandma, it was like,

the cooking, the cleaning. It was true, you know, throwback definition of wife. My grandma too. Yeah. Shout out to the grandmas. I always like to give a good shout out to the grandmas. But then when you got engaged, then what did that look like for you?

Because I feel like that's the moment where you start to think like, oh, shit, like, I'm about to be a wife. So I moved into my husband's place while we were engaged. And I think it did give me a bit of like an identity crisis. Yeah. You know, moving into his house that he owned and adjusting to that and figuring out, you

you know, what I would do around the house without losing my sense of self. You know, I, I couldn't do all of the chores. That's just not what I want to do as in my definition of a wife. So I think it's about give and take, uh, for us, you know, I'm not a good cook. Uh,

Sean is a better, my husband, he's a great cook. So I think, you know, he'll cook half the time. I'll cook half the time, easy meals. And whoever doesn't cook does the dishes. So it's that kind of trade-off. We both take out the trash. We'll both vacuum and clean the house. It's not like I'm not playing into that super stereotypical wife definition of I'm cleaning the house, I'm cooking and doing all this stuff.

just because that wouldn't work for me. - Yeah. And so do you think he had any thoughts about like being a husband?

I never really thought about that until this moment, you know? I think it was hard for him to adjust to me needing to know when he was like coming home and stuff like that. Because I think we've been so independent for so much of our relationship, you know, living in separate places, that kind of thing. And when we're together, it's kind of like, wait, you know, where is he right now? You know, that kind of thing. And I think that was an adjustment for him. Yeah. I think the word independent is...

is an interesting one in this context because it's like how do you balance your independence and togetherness I think this is something I've been trying to figure out in relationship period but what are your thoughts on independence versus unit oh yeah that's a fantastic question and I think it's really important to keep your sense of independence I personally

Don't think you should be together. Absolutely. All of the time. I think that we would drive each other crazy, honestly. And it's good to have support network outside of, you know, your relationship friends or an outlet, you know, for me, it's singing groups, that kind of thing. It's good for him to go out with his buddies and go, you know, watch football, which I'm not interested in. So I think it's important to have that.

Yeah.

Yeah, boundaries. Oh, yes, boundaries. Yes. Something that I heard recently that was really interesting. It's like you're two different people coming together and you both come with like your own world and you both think that your world is the right world, you know? And so you try to tell, you're trying to get your partner to like come into your world and say, my world is right, your world is not. Like-

come into my world and they're trying to get you to do the same thing. But it's like you really have to create your own new world together. That's totally true. How's that been for you creating your new world together? Yeah, well, I think

Right now, it's been a bit tricky since we're apart. So right now, I'm still in Virginia. And I think we're not really at that point. But when I do move over there, I think we'll be able to create that new world together. We'll be adventuring abroad together and finding what

brings us joy and experiencing new things, new hobbies, a lot of hiking, things like that. And I think that'll be good for us, but it also be a balance. You know, I think that there will be times where I'm a bit of an amber. So I think there will be moments where I won't want to go out, for example, with, you know, the people at the embassy or something. And Sean will, you know, understand that and respect that because he knows that I don't have enough social energy to always be

socializing with people. So I think it's just respecting that we are different, you know, and at times we won't be able to do exactly what the other person wants. I think it's important if you do have the energy to, you know, do that if you can, but if you don't, then it's okay to respect what you need because you do need to maintain your sense of self because if you aren't showing up as yourself, you're going to start resenting the other person too. Mm-hmm.

That part there. That part there. But so you had mentioned how like right now you're in a different place, like quite literally physically. How are you defining wife right now in this time when y'all are apart? Like, well, first, how do you think society defines wife? And then how are you defining it for yourself? Sure. I think in my mind, wife has always been

just based on society and what I've seen in TV and movies, I think wife is kind of the supporting partner, you know, the supporting player. And for me, that doesn't really work. You know, I always have a working role. So I think that

For me, it's supporting my partner. And, you know, if he has a bad day, I'll be there to talk to him about that or encourage him, you know, like, congrats, you got through the week, a long week, that kind of thing. But then also really taking care of myself and working on my self-love because that's so important in our relationship too. You know, if you don't have that sense of self-worth, it can leak into all of your other relationships. It's kind of like...

putting on your own oxygen mask first on the plane. Bro, I don't know if I ever even thought about like wife in terms of me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I think I've always seen it as giving to someone else maybe. Yeah. I mean, you know, this whole situation with my husband being abroad, so many people, including, you know, my parents, quite honest, my in-laws, um,

Everyone's wondering why I didn't want to go over there, you know, right away. Everyone at the embassy is asking Sean where his wife is, you know, and it's like, well, I had something I wanted to do, which is another show. And that's really important to me. That's what gives me joy, you know, and I need to have that joy.

And, you know, I said, I'm going to stay for a little bit until I get that opportunity. And, you know, it's nothing against you. I want to go and I will go, which is a compromise. And but I think, you know, it is so important. You have to keep your sense of identity or else you really lose yourself. And then you can't you can't give. Right. If you don't have any anything in your cup. Yeah. Yeah.

I've been in similar situations where, like, for example, I wanted to go to grad school, but and which was in New York, but my boyfriend was still here. And that that separation can be really, really hard. How do you keep that? How do you still make it work while apart? That's a great question.

I think, you know, regular video calls are important. I think we will always do the good morning and good night, you know, texting, texting,

And I think if you can see each other like every three months, that's pretty important. I would say, um, I recently was able to go over there and see him and where it's over there again. Where is he? Uh, Nepal, Nepal, Everest. Yes. Well, damn, I know it's about real distance right there. He's on Mount Everest. Like that's, that's some real distance. He's not on Mount Everest, but you know, he's nearby. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, we've done it before when I was in London doing my musical theater training. But I think if you can see each other every three months and, you know, regularly communicate, that's the most important thing. Yeah, agreed. 100%. How long are you staying here to do your acting bit, the show that you were in?

So I am going to stay through the middle of the summer. So probably July, I'll probably be heading over there. My show is in June. Because it's like, I think the timeline is something that gives me pause, not for you, but just in general in society where it's like, I'm expected to be with this person for the rest of my life.

of my life. And y'all salty that I'm trying to stay through the end of the summer. I know. My whole life. Bro. That's a long time. This is also why I have pause about moving in together personally. It's like

Once I move in, I can never really live by myself ever again. And I love living alone. I know. Me too. It's nice. It's like such a beautiful thing. Yeah. It can be beautiful to live in with somebody, especially somebody that you love. But damn, the rest of my life. I know. Right. Yeah. It's funny that people are all.

anxious for me to go over there because like you said the rest of our lives and I think absence does make the heart grow wander you know yes

the rest of your life. Girl, you stay here and do your thing and you're going to see him soon. Yeah, definitely. It's not that big a deal. It's not that big a deal. Jesus Christ. I'm going to, I told you I had started to look up the word wife and the definition of wife on Google. And so I look up definitions all the time. And so I typed in wife def, like D-E-F for definition. And

And so the first thing that comes up in, it says definitions from Oxford languages, wife. It says a married woman considered in relation to her spouse. The next part says the wife of a person with a specified occupation. I don't know why that says that. And then number two says archaic Scottish. It says a woman, especially an old or uneducated one. And that part.

that part it was like what oh my god and you know how google gives you like the primary definitions first or whatever and that's literally what comes up then i kept scrolling down and it says people also ask and then it has all the little drop downs to see like other things so the first one says what is the full meaning of a wife it says a married woman the woman someone is married to

Then the next one says, what does wife mean in relationship? It says, a wife is a female in a marital relationship. A woman who has separated from her partner continues to be a wife until their judgment is legally dissolved with a divorce judgment. On the death of her partner, a wife is referred to as a widow. Then there's the next one says, what is the role of a wife? It says, as

I think this definition of good, like this word good too, like a good wife, I think that that's an interesting part. Yeah.

Yes.

are called to be helpers to others, the Bible places a special emphasis on this responsibility for wives. Genesis tells us that God realized it wasn't good for man to be alone and that he decided to make a helper fit. Then two more down, it says, what are the types of wife? And I was like, oh, types of wife. Okay, let's see. So I want to click this. I'm going to click this one.

And see where we go here. It says, what kind of wife are you? Let's try this out. Tell me what kind of wife you are, Kara. I have no idea what this is about to say. So we shall see. Find out your type plus ways to improve your marriage. It says every woman has a different approach to marriage. Says Kara.

this random man, including blah, blah, blah. Whether you're more take charge or easygoing, bossy or nurturing, experts say that you can make a marriage work by recognizing your strengths and weaknesses. First, there's the nurturer. It says, if he has a need, you meet it. I'm not going to read this whole thing, but that gives a good little idea. The mothering wife, you make him breakfast in the morning, manage his social calendar, remind him to take his medication and lay out his clothes. Okay.

The next one says the little girl wife. Hold on. Hold on. Gasp. This style is characterized by a woman's inability to do much of anything on her own. She's the damsel in distress. The wife who can't fix a light bulb.

Then there's the bossy wife. Do you write your husband a to-do list? Get on his case about helping around the house. The super wife. Your husband doesn't do laundry. He is a deer in headlights when it comes to the grocery store. The husband-centered wife. Looking back, she says she was too focused on her husband. Marriage has the potential to erode the very fiber of your identity.

If you aren't careful, it can tempt you to become a yes woman. I think that's very true. This is the last one. The kid centered wife. It's no myth that becoming parents can add stress. In fact, a major eight year study conducted by researchers at Texas A&M said,

And the University of Denver found that as many as 90% of couples experience a decrease in marital satisfaction after having children. So there was the kid-centered wife, the super wife, the bossy wife, the little girl wife, the mothering wife, the nurturer.

And those are the ones. Do any of those resonate in particular? I think some of them do. But I think that they don't really fit for me. Okay. I just think that I couldn't put myself in that little box and just be that one thing for my husband, you know, being his mother. And I mean, sometimes I'll remind him to do things and

You know, I do like to nurture, but I'm not going to satisfy every need. You know what I mean? I think all of those definitions just really definitely place the woman in this secondary role. They do. What would you, I don't know, is there a term like that you might give yourself the blank wife? I would probably say...

I know this is a hard one to come up with on the spot. Because you can maybe even choose three words or something, because I think doing one is hard. Yeah. I would say, you know, the nurturing, the mothering, even though that's kind of weird. I mean, you don't have to go with words that are in this. You can do any words. Yeah. Sometimes I can be bossy, but only sometimes. I love the honesty. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know what I would call myself. I'm not a wife, but let me think. I think I might be like growth centered where it's like I'm continuously just trying to learn from this thing. It's kind of an experiment. It is. Yeah. It's an experiment. It's a leap of faith. It's a leap of faith. Mm hmm. Ooh, chat. Yes, it is. Yeah.

So let's talk a little bit about what's come up for me as I've edited this episode. I asked Holy Spirit, so what do you want me to say in this one? And the first thing that I heard was being in a relationship is an opportunity to give love and to be loved. That's just a really, really beautiful thing. It's a choice that

that someone is making to be that for you and a choice that you are making to be that for someone else. This is like your chosen person. And to give love and to be love, it's just a really beautiful opportunity.

I think sometimes when we're in relationship, we get caught up in sometimes the struggles. Sometimes we get on autopilot and are just going through the motions after you've been with someone for a while. But how do you want to be loved? It goes back to that question of sense of self, and we'll get into that in a second too. But then how can you also give love today to the person that you love?

to the person that you love? How can you seize this beautiful opportunity that you have to be loved and to give love? Like text your person, whether that's your significant other or anyone else in your life that you love, text your person now and just share some love with them. But another thing that came up for me while I was editing apart from that was I

the importance of sense of self. sometimes people enter into relationships without really knowing who they are and you're not going to know all aspects of yourself when going into a relationship but at least have an idea of who you are and what you want

so that who you are and what you want isn't swayed by this thing. You need to be grounded in yourself first and then build with someone rooted, still rooted in your values. And they should be grounded in themselves and rooted in their values. And then you come together and build something that works for you both. So that's what came up. Let's get back into the episode.

Day to day, what does being a wife look like for you? For me, I would say supporting my husband, giving listening ear when I can. At the moment, it would be doing some things around the house. We're getting ready to rent the house. So I'm kind of taking the lead on that since he's not here. Yeah. Yeah.

I think if he was here, he would be, you know, doing a lot of that himself. But the fact that he's 12,000 miles away makes it something that I'm working on. I would also say, you know, being helping his family in different ways. You know, his in-laws, hanging out with them, spending time with them and, you

I'm going to sing at his brother's wedding as well. So cool. Yeah, things like that. Well, can I tell you what I heard in that just now? So you actually said you're the supportive wife. You're the listener, like listener wife. I heard you're the partner. I think those are the three main ones.

I like those. Yeah. And then I like that you said, too, that you're going to go sing at his brother's wedding. And so I don't know what that would be called, but I think that's an interesting thing, too. Because...

it's like you're integrated into his life, you know? Yeah. And I feel like that needs a title because that's, well, as far as the blank wife too, you know? Family wife? Family. Yeah. Family focused. Yeah. The other one said kids centered, but like, it's like just family, family first. There's something family focused. Yeah. Yeah.

I like it. I like those a lot better than the other definitions. Yeah, yeah. Defining them for ourselves. That's why we like need to do that. So what is, what would you say is one of the biggest things that you've learned about, well, from being married? From being married, I've learned that you really need to communicate. You need to communicate your needs as well. That's really important so that

you know, resentment doesn't build, for example, you know, if I need my husband to send me a good night text or that something like that, that's important to me. I just communicate that to him, you know, and it is really important to be able to, you know, support your partner and listen to them. I think, you know, really listen to them and put yourself in their shoes is really important. And also, you know, you do need to compromise sometimes.

At times. And I think it's knowing what to compromise on and what to and then when to put yourself first. Because you have to put yourself first. That's a good one. That's definitely a good one. It's definitely both. You have to learn when to compromise and then when to put yourself first. Yeah, I like that a lot. Cool.

Well, so at the end of each episode, we always reframe the limiting belief to fit more within our desired reality. And so an example of a reframe, so it was my first episode. So I always go back to this as the example. If I were to say that if I'm not married by 30, then I'm a failure. I would reframe that to say I can get married at a time that's right for me. Fuck the societal timeline. It ain't even real. Like I can start a partnership. I don't even have to get married if I don't want to. So yeah.

In this case, if we're reframing this living belief that you can't define wife for yourself, how would you reframe that to fit more within our desired reality? I would say you can and you should define wife for yourself because obviously the internet, society, your parents, your in-laws will have many different ideas of what

what a life means, but I think that you can and you should define it for yourself. Whatever definition you want to be a combination of definitions. I don't think any of us are just one thing. And I think whatever you choose is what's best for you. And that's all that matters. And, you know, you do need to be able to let go of other people's opinions and, um,

make sure to still keep your sense of identity. I think that's really important. - Yeah, I love that. And it made me think of the worlds again. So, 'cause you had said a lot of people have a lot of thoughts, the internet got thoughts, your family got thoughts, everybody got some thoughts.

And so just like I was saying, like you come to the relationship with your own world and your partner comes to the relationship with their own world. And we keep saying like my world is right. It's all these other people coming to this thing in their different worlds. You got thousands of worlds coming at you in your relationship. But really, you need to deal with the two. And two is already a lot.

Yes. Yes. Yes. And even before you get to the two, I think we need to define the word wife, define the word marriage, like define these things for ourselves even before we meet our partners or before we make these commitments, too, because I think a lot of the time people go into these things with just not an understanding of who they are and what they want.

And if you go into it without knowing your own definition, then it just makes it a gray area, which leads to more resentment too, I think, over time. That's so true. I definitely recommend that. I think that would really help because, yeah, we go into these things with so many unconscious thoughts about it, you know, that we've seen. And if

If we can, you know, journal about it and figure out what it means to us, then we can communicate that to our partner and, you know, go from there. Yeah. Because I was, I tried to define marriage for myself recently. And that took a lot of thought. You know, it's kind of like deprogramming in a way. First you have to shed all the things that other people say it is. I realized that I want, I don't even really care as much about the marriage as I do about like a life partnership relationship.

So I want to have that first. And then after that marriage is just like a thing for tax benefits in my mind. But so then I think now I need to define wife and,

And I love that we did that activity. And I love that you said like supporter and listener and all of those things, because I might do something similar to try to figure out how I want to define it. So thank you, Carolyn. You're welcome. Yeah. Very good.

Cool. Well, if people wanted to connect with you, where can they find you? Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram. I don't post too much on there, but it's just my full name, Carolyn Fox Darville. And I also have a website, carolynfoxdarville.com. You can go on there and see where my show is going to be in June. I'm really excited. We're doing some great songs from Dreamgirls. I heard it through The Grapevine, The Jackson 5, things like that. So, yeah.

you know, if you want to come see what brings me joy. Love it. Love it. And y'all know where you can find me. I am at IP woman podcast on Insta on Twitter. I'm working on a new show. So that one's taken up a little bit more time to y'all know I was, I realized that I was scared of going on video. And so I've been staying in podcast world, but I'm ready to go and do some production shit.

So get ready. It'll be cool. I've told you about it before. It's called New Growth. I will keep you posted. You will hear more soon. But thank you for joining me, Carolyn. Thanks, Lauren. Thanks for having me. Of course. And listeners, I will chat with y'all next week. Farewell.