Your Love Can('t) Evolve Over Time
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Good day, good people. In this episode, we're going to be chatting about love. Shout out to God for giving it to us, but like, for real, what is it though? Like, what is love? How do we express love? What's it look like in different situations and in different relationships? Let's get started.

That's what we're going to be chatting about in this episode. And so in this episode, I'm chatting with Charlie Williams and we talk about love in family, romantic relationships, and also what love looks like for herself, like to herself, you know? We get into topics like not being seen for who you are, what love means to us, emotional intelligence, the impact of therapy.

implications of that stereotype of the strong Black woman, emotions versus logic,

God's love, giving and receiving love, grace, and like so much more. And honestly, this is a topic for literally every single person. We all have an opportunity to grow in love. So this episode is another opportunity for you to potentially get yourself a little nugget to implement for your day as you walk in love with the people around you.

And we need more of that these days, dear friends. And so in each episode, I always chat with women about limiting beliefs that hold us back from living the life that we really want to live, right? From holding us back from really walking in love in this case. And so this is Charlie. And this is why she chose Limiting Belief, that your love can't evolve over time.

The care we give, the emotions we feel, the things we hold really dear, the values we possess that stick with us through time, even as they evolve, I think that's what our love comes from or turns into, is like from those things. And so my love evolving, it sums it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that over time, we're allowed to change in how we love. And I think that that's not something that we actually talk about a lot, just in how we grow. Yeah.

and what that growth looks like from a perspective of love. But one thing you had mentioned was that you feel like you can't expect others to treat you or see you in accordance with like how you've changed over time. And so I like to kind of start with the previous versions of who we were. So...

Who is that like past version of yourself that you think people still see you as? Being frank, I was, I don't want to say emotionless because I knew I had emotions, but they were not allowed to.

to be seen. And this was nothing that somebody ever told me. This was just something that I really thought was true. And so I think over time from a little girl, as then you grow up into when you're dealing with more things and actually experiencing pieces of life, that I started to feel like I was emotionless. I would call it maybe emotionally unintelligent and also promiscuous. And so...

without reason, knowing that it actually went against, like, again, from a little girl, not because anyone, I remember saying straight up this was wrong, but I knew there, I did not actually agree with what I was doing, and yet I was doing it. And so that was the promiscuity. The emotionally unintelligent part, I don't know where it came, where it came, and why it persisted for so long, but it did, and it became a part of me that I

eventually didn't want to agree with or identify with anymore. Yeah, I resonate with that too. We might not have the exact same, but for me, something I've been talking about in therapy a lot is like expressing myself more.

As in, like, I have a tendency sometimes to shut down in some ways and not fully, like, express my emotions. If something if something struggling is happening, I'm gonna just be like, oh, OK. Oh, OK. But that's not that's not the appropriate response. Mine is what it is. There is not a person that I encountered through my teenage through 20s where I probably did not hit them a few times. It is what it is.

Why do you think we've been like this? Like, why has it been hard to feel emotions, express emotions? Like, where do you think that come from? I want to process some things with a therapist. I have never been brave enough to do it because I don't want to sit with someone and talk in circles about myself and then not find help.

But I understand it's probably just a fear and somebody to get over. But when I asked myself why myself was away, I'll tell you the answers I get. I was a tomboy.

And I was my brother's best friend and I didn't identify with my sisters well. But even my brother, who used to cry a lot, I remember we used to punch him in his chest and say, I'm rough and I'm tough and I'm tough enough. That's what I used to have to say for him to make his mantra. That's what I was told to do to my big brother. And I don't know if somehow it got to me.

Maybe I didn't have as many emotions back then, or maybe I was just more happy. And so I didn't have to experience it. So when things started to come back,

I never, maybe in my head, I was telling myself I'm rough and I'm tough and I'm tough enough. And eventually it shows, it does not show in emotion expressing. You don't, I'm not rough, tough and telling you that I'm sad or confused or down or anything. I'm just still happy because I'm rough and I'm tough and I'm tough enough. And that's the only thing I've been able to tell. I never had someone do that to me, but I had to do that to my big brother whom I loved.

very dearly. And so I don't know if I told it to myself subconsciously. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds like a children's book that needs to be written if it's not a thing. I'm roughing, I'm tough, and I'm tough enough. This is a brilliant children's book. Yeah.

But, you know, I think we might have to reframe it. And I'm not rough and tough and tough enough because we shouldn't have to be. But when you were talking initially, too, before I even asked that question, my first thought went to like strong black woman.

How like we're told to be strong and usually strong does not end tough. Those things don't go along with emotions. Those things aren't typically correlated together. And so I think we've tended to bury the emotions. But really, when we bury the emotions, they're still there.

They just cause health issues. They just cause, yeah, they just cause all these other issues that we ignore and don't want to address when we don't just like let them out. And I also, I never heard be strong, Charlie, but I saw my mother strong. Mm hmm.

That, I don't ever recall her ever saying, you know, you can't cry, you can't feel, but I saw her strong. I don't ever remember once her telling me, you have to be strong. You're a Black female. But I saw her do it. And again, when you're a kid and my life was stable and I loved, I was loved and I knew that and I was able to give love.

And when you get out of that stable household, but you've seen strong and you have not been shown or told that it was okay to be emotional, I think it just adds to it. So I didn't see the emotional female part.

And then I told my brother, who was my best friend, that he was rough and tough and tough enough because he cried and showed his emotions a lot. And I know that men often express this about how, you know, maybe they don't feel comfortable or that they're not, their emotion side is not embraced and groomed, you know. But I think you're right. As a Black female, the culture is strength. And like our value was in our strength and our strength.

Instead of in our gentleness or emotions or feminine, our value was placed in our strength. And from so long ago, both to when I saw my grandmother, when I saw my mother be, and I've never said these out loud because I don't think I've ever thought about it that hard. Mm-hmm. And this is what therapy will do. Podcasts are like...

kind of therapy like I've had people cry on these things it's interesting see I'm not at that place where I can cry on a podcast that's totally fine you don't have to but I do suggest like all listeners I think everybody should have a therapist I almost feel like it should be required that every person see a therapist because they're the only person usually in a person's life where you can say absolutely everything the ugly the good the bad and they will sit and listen and try to help it's like an amazing thing

So something that I like to do in the middle of episodes is jump in and share my thoughts after I've re-listened to it. And something that stood out for me was when Charlie was saying, I'm rough and I'm tough and I'm tough enough. I'm telling you, we got to make a children's book out of this. But dang, I don't want to be tough. I don't want to be tough.

I don't. I don't even want to be tough no more. I think a lot of us have entered this like collective phase of soft. As women, a lot of us have felt the need to be strong. A lot of people have been deemed to be the strong one in their family, in their friend group. Check on your strong friend, y'all. But like really everybody's kind of going through it and everybody needs support.

Who decided that you had to be the one to carry all that weight? Sometimes you just want to be gentle. Sometimes you just want to be soft. I was like so intent on having a soft girl summer this last summer because I had been grinding and grinding and grinding without rest. But you are a human.

You cannot do it all. You are not multitasking. You are doing everything halfway. I need you to take a beat. I need you to take a breath. You've been strong for a really long time. You've been rough and you've been tough and you've been tough enough for a really long time. If you're listening to this and this is resonating with you, might not resonate with everybody, but it might be resonating with you. Take a breath. Breathe in. Breathe out.

It's time to enter your gentle era. Now, this does not mean that you can't be productive. This does not mean that you can't accomplish your goals. This just means it might be time to do it a little bit differently. So let's reevaluate how we're approaching all the things that we're doing. If you're approaching it from the stance of that strong woman, put down the weight. Even if it's just in one small area of your life, ask for help because your gentle,

Because now we're soft, we deserve rest, and we're doing our best. That's what we're going to replace rough, tough, tough enough with. Because for real, I'm not rough and I'm not tough and I don't got time for none of this. And for real, I just want to go to bed and there's too much going on in the world. And you know what? Sometimes I just want to be a soft girl, okay? And I wish somebody would just bring me some food. You're soft, you deserve rest, and you're doing your best. Now let's get back to the episode. But you mentioned love. What does love mean to you?

What do you think it means? This is a very loaded question, by the way. Very loaded, Lauren. But I understand because I do ask myself this as I process relationships of all levels and throughout time. Love continues to be an action and a sacrifice and a compromise. A feeling that might be attached to those things.

But not of, you know, I don't think love is a feeling. I've always felt more loved when I knew someone was doing something for me. Not like not performing an action for me or buying, you know, but like you stop yelling because you see me.

shutting down. Something that simple. Because you're taking the action to see me and then adjust. And you know it's out of love because you want to yell and I'm being torn down from your yelling and so you stop. Something that simple. But it's definitely a sacrifice and it's definitely an action. And that differs depending on the relationship, of course. But

I know my mom loved me because she never wavered in taking care of me, no matter how hard it may have gotten. And she didn't show that either, of course. You know, you don't know that until you're a young mom yourself and you're like, mom, how did you? How did you? And you realize that it was from a place of love that she hustled and bustled and sacrificed her time to be there and sacrificed her energy to show up and keep us going. That was in love versus my children.

I hug them when they hug me back. That's love to me. My mother was never a hugger or kisser, but I hug and kiss all my children every single day. And they are all teenagers now and I can go to their school and I will still get a hug and a kiss. And that's love for me from them. And so it differs to me with each of my relationships versus romantically. It's in the silly time spin, not doing anything in particular, but when it's just me and my

that person and it's just time spent. Quiet, watching a rom-com or, you know, being held. Like, that is... Those things feel like love to me. Honesty. Honesty on purpose and that, you know, even if it might hurt, that's love to me romantically. Yeah. I think...

Love, the definition of it can be so like hard to wrap your head around sometimes, I feel like. And it was interesting, I was having a conversation with a friend not too long ago about like, what does love mean and will we ever fully understand what love is as humans? Like if it says God is love, right? Will we ever fully understand if it's like...

God level? I don't know. It's something I've been thinking about a lot. Right. Yeah. Then I started looking in the back of like in the concordance or whatever in the Bible and saw that the first one I got to, I think it said it was a noun. And then I was like, what? I thought that it would be like an action or whatever, like a verb. And then I looked again and it was like, oh, verb. And then I looked again and it was like adjective. And I was like, OK, it's a lot of things. Like love is a lot of things. Love is complex. Love is complex.

But I agree. I think from my perspective, more often I've often viewed it as an action. And I think for me, love has always looked like showing up. Yes, that's good. Yeah, as opposed to like a feeling. I think my love language is showing up because sometimes those feelings will like waver over time. So it's like, is that really love? But if you choose to show up for me, then I believe you love me.

Kind of. I agree. Showing up is something you can count on. And that also goes to the emotionally part because I've never, you can't count on them. And so I've always leaned to logic. And logic can sometimes combat emotions. But I like logic because I can depend on it most often. And it's like, oh, this doesn't make sense, then I don't want to feel it. And if I can't feel it, I definitely don't want to show it.

But I agree. But with the definitions or with the word part that it might be according to the concordance, if God is love, then that makes love a noun. That too. It's all of them. It's so complicated. You are right. That is... Wow. And I wonder if we try to be...

If we're godly people who recognize the power and presence and being of God and we try to do anything in his likeness, then I think we're carrying out an action of his now. Charlie, look at you, girl. I've never even looked in the concordance. You know what? I feel like I have, but I don't remember seeing all three different. You would think it's like right there, just the one, but there's three of them.

There's three loves in there, which was so interesting. I wasn't expecting that. But I think like also with the if God is love, will we ever fully understand it? And it says the greatest goal is love. Like nothing else matters.

Other than love, honestly, faith. Yes. All that kind of stuff. But like it literally says, make your greatest goal love. And so I think all we can do is like try our best to get better at it and to start to understand it more. But with this to like how we're evolving over time, I want to go deeper into what you were saying with your children and your romantic relationships.

How did you used to show up in your relationship with your children compared to how you do now? Because when you were texting me, it sounds it sounded like it evolved a bit. Yeah. Let's start with your children. How do you think it used to be versus how they see you now and versus how you like show up and express love to them now? Being a young mom, I had a whole lot of energy, even when I didn't have a whole lot of time. We lived at parks, you know, and I coached track.

And so they all ran. I coached basketball. They played basketball. And so you get this sportier, energetic mom. And we had rules. We had respect. But it didn't have to be so strict and stringent. I was the only one in the household as a single mom. So I was also the disciplinarian. But they didn't make me

teeter-totter too much. I laid down laws initially, and then, so you knew the expectation. But I got to be gentle. I got to be fun. And it wasn't that I wasn't parenting them. It just, they were very, I had really good kids from birth. Like I didn't have a terrible two or troublesome three, the stuff that, none of that. And so we just went on. We went on. But they hit the age

I mean, I basically told them that you're old enough now that you have to have a social contract with me as your mother. Because I'm not just giving now. You are old enough to reciprocate some things. Before, when we're teaching our children, we're teaching them. We expect them to not understand. And we know that we're going to have to teach them again. And that is correction. And that correction was in love. But it was mild because I'm expecting you to not get it.

Now, with teens, I'm expecting you to get some things. And so that... And I don't have as much energy. And I don't want to repeat. I'm not, you know... We can't live at the park anymore. They're all busy. We're all busy. And so I feel like the level of love has not changed at all. I love them literally to life. But the expectation is changing. And I think they're not responding well to that because...

In a social contract, if you don't meet these expectations, you're in breach. And that means things can change. And we implement them with every other relationship as we grow older, you know, with our friends, with our jobs, like...

No one's going to be bullied or harassed or not feel respected and then continue on doing whatever they're doing. And so with them as they try to, you know, I have two sons and they they filling out their britches and I have my daughter and she's filling out her attitude level and they're still really good kids. I can't complain. Thank God. But as far as our relationships and I also another thing I used to tell them, give the world your best because they don't love you like I love you.

And come home and let me deal with any of the messy stuff. Because in love, we'll process it, you know? And so there's no one in the world outside of our home that would even think any statement I might make about them in home would be true. Because they have done that. They've given the world their best. But over time, I think I've wanted them to...

Cooperate more. Do your part without having me say so. So it kind of sounds like expectations have changed, which makes sense. Because, you know, when they're a kid kid, they, you know, their brain ain't fully developed. Their brain still ain't fully developed. It's absolutely not. Expectation shift. And then I guess like I think that might be the main one. Expectation. And the response to them not meeting the expectation is what I think is

they're focusing on. And so my response is a little less patient. And it's not because I don't love them as much as when they were younger. It's because I'm expecting, you know, the expectations are what they are.

So you know them and I'm expecting you to meet them on top of that. So it's like, it's almost become a twofold because of course you had expectations of them as a kid, right? You know, they have these levels of growth and levels of learning that you want them to meet and these milestones and stuff. But if something went awry, I wouldn't, there would just be, you know, a corrected or something to redirect. Now is different because not meeting the expectation, usually I feel like it's a choice.

And so if you're choosing to not meet that expectation, then how can you call that reciprocity me giving you all of me every day? This is interesting. This is interesting because of the next question that I wanted to ask, because next I wanted to go into romantic relationships and.

I was curious about how like how you showed love back then is different than how you might show or want to receive love now within your romantic relationships. But then the just a conversation about expectations is interesting to me because I feel like the expectations we have for people sometimes will dictate how we show up in those relationships, like how they respond to the expectations. Yeah.

slash boundaries and whatnot too um dictates how people show up i agree i i wholeheartedly that's and that's it's interesting hearing that from like starting with children children whose brains fully aren't developed to like the expectations we have for grown people now i don't know it's just interesting but with the romantic relationships what is that like for you from where you were and where you are now how have you grown in love in that area

Growing to understand my emotions and to be able to express them. Growing and knowing that promiscuity is not a value model. Sexual relations are not high on my priority list. Spiritual connections, something that I think can last, are high on my priority list. So naturally, that's what I'm expecting. I'm expecting someone to come in and be able to have some type of spirituality on their own and

And then it connect with me. On top of that, as a single mom, you know, I can't help but boast and brag about my kids and not being a mom. But I don't, my life does not look like what I want. I believe in that nuclear family with a head, a household being led by the head of a man. Like I, that's what I think I would have wanted. I just didn't plan it out. I didn't, and so my life doesn't look like that. But that doesn't mean that,

That's not what I want and that's not what I deserve, even still. And so the expectation is that somebody can come in with their own spirituality that can be my own, you know, and match my own. And then other things just blossom from that. As we connect, you can respect that I want to practice celibacy until I'm married. Yes, with these three children, you know, and if you can only see celibacy

an old version of a person that existed, you know, you're not there. And it's really easy for people outside of any household, an adult can see an issue with a child and have an expectation of that parent, right, for that child. Not your person. Like if I walk down the street, you know, we're in the store and we see somebody's child cutting up, we automatically have an expectation of that parent

to change and do something to correct their behavior. And yet as adults, somehow we don't have those expectations of ourselves in relationships with other adults. That when we, if there is something afoot or that's not working, we expect a change. If my relationships haven't turned into and panned out to be what I wanted, you should expect me to change something. Right. But that's not what it is. You want me to do the same thing that I've always done. And I'm like, I don't want what I've always had.

Oh, that I don't want what I've always had. I've grown. I want something different now. So I'm going to have to, I heard something and it was like, whatever you're not changing, you're choosing. Yes. And so it's like, if you aren't where you want to be right now and you keep staying in that same thing, if you are actively changing it, then that is what you are choosing for yourself. Yes. Yeah. I had a conversation with the older woman who's married and, um,

She said, things don't change when you get married. If you are a willing participant beforehand, you can't try to expect someone to change what you participate in. That they're just going, you were a willing participant then, your title did not change your participation. And I said, wow. Okay. Wow. Wow. Your title did not change your participation. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. So she said, you have to know what you're participating in beforehand beforehand.

And expect to still be participating in those things afterwards or cut it off. Like you said, change it unless you're choosing it. So, yeah. Mm-hmm. So good. What about your relationship with yourself and how you've shown love to yourself now? How has that changed over time? That is totally in the space of grace. Ooh, good. Because I am perfectly okay with the circle of Charlie. The circle of Charlie. Yes, I am.

I recognize that I keep going and sometimes I double back to things whether I like them or not because sometimes it's a need and I'm okay with that. You know, and I'm like, all right, well, another day. If I wake up again, I have another day to do it differently, to do it better, to choose to change. And I give myself this grace that just makes me happy with me because even when I'm not happy with me, I'm the only me I have. And so...

It's in this space of grace. And I don't think I used to be really hard on myself. I used to badger myself about stuff and only expect in frustration to change. Now I'll change in grace and with time and as I need or as I want.

Instead of because that's what the world is saying to do, this is what your children need. No, I'll make my changes as I need and as I want. And I give myself grace along the way. So good. I feel like your values have changed over time, too.

And so as you've grown and evolved, like what do you think might help you stay true to these like new values that you seem to have for yourself? If I'm being, I don't think my values have changed. Okay. Got it. Got it. I think the courage to stick to those values and let those values be known to draw lines in the sand about what I stand for and what I don't. The courage to do that is what has become a, you know, at the forefront.

You know, like my small voice of me is louder now. And so I'm not able to teeter-totter about what I value. I value what I know I know. And that courage can be hard. Like the small voice of you becoming the big voice of you, like that takes time. That takes work. It takes silence. It takes quiet. It takes removal. Yeah.

It takes sitting with yourself sometimes to hear her. You know, I want, I pray to be able to hear God so clearly. Yeah. And yet I live with myself every day and I never used to listen to me. And yet I want, I'm expecting God to be able to hear God. Someone that I don't know that I've heard as I want to hear him. But I know I've talked to myself and I've talked myself out of things that myself told me. You know, I've gone against my small voice after I know I heard it.

And yet I'm expecting, no, I think God's saying, Charlie, shut up and listen to you. Once you learn to listen, you learn to listen. And what you're listening to will start to change because I'm seeking to hear him. But in that, I've been that courage to listen to me and let her voice grow louder and

is what I think is going to help me stay true to the new me because it's so much easier. And doing it in grace, because I don't care that you're not evolving with me. I'm evolving and I love it. And the love of it, the action of giving myself grace is love for myself. And that grace has given me the courage to say, all right, this might not be what you used to do, but this is what you know you need, what you know you feel, what you know you believe. Yes. That's so good. That's so good.

So at the end of each episode, we always reframe the limiting belief to fit within our desired reality. And so a reframe might be, I give the same example every single time. It was the first episode I ever did. It was like, if I'm not married by 30, then I'm a failure. We could reframe that to say,

you can get married at a time that's right for you. The societal timeline isn't real. What's more important is that you find the right partner as opposed to rushing it type of thing, right? Absolutely. So in this case, if our limiting belief is you can't evolve, your love can't evolve over time, how would you reframe that to fit within your desired reality? For me, my love had to evolve over time. And

Everyone's love should be able to freely evolve over time without judgment from self or others. And it's beauty in it. So my love had to evolve over time. There is beauty in the evolution of your love, listener. Yes. In the growth of your love. We didn't really, like, no one ever teaches you love.

And so the only thing that we really have to go off is like the family that we had around us, the people that we had around us. There's so much to learn about it. And I think it's like an action that we have to intentionally take every day to grow in it. Like I told myself this year, I was writing out my goals. One of my goals is to learn more about love and to walk in love more. And so every Thursday is going to be my love day. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Join you on your Thursday love. Yes. Join me on my Thursday love days. It's like I want to read more about love. I want to think more about what love might look like. I want to show love to people more. Just be really thoughtful and intentional about it. And then maybe if I can focus on it on Thursdays, it'll grow. I love that. Yeah.

That is beautiful. There is beauty in our love and the growth of our love and the evolution of our love. So Charlie, thank you for sharing all of that with us. Thank you for making me share it, Lauren, because I love thinking these thoughts out loud. I've never thought some of these.

So good. So, so, so, so good. Yes, therapy. Yes. Fake therapy over here. But if people wanted to connect with you, where can they find you? Nowhere. Not on social media. Okay. DM me if y'all need anything from Charlie. Yes, do that.

OK, so my handle is at Lauren dot e dot will on Instagram. I'm also at IP woman podcast on Instagram. Feel free to connect with me. And if you need anything from Charlie, feel free to connect with me, too. Charlie, did you have any last thoughts before we wrap up? No, this was amazing. Thank you for this opportunity, Lauren. No problem. All right, then. Well, listeners, we will chat with y'all next week. Farewell. Bye.

So