742. How To Transform Your Health in a Corrupt Food System
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Welcome to the Almost 30 Podcast. I'm Lindsay. And I'm Krista. And we're your hosts, guides, and friends on this path. Almost 30 is not about your age. It's about the feeling. All of us are almost something, seeking community and resources to support the rumblings of transformation within us. Our conversations are deep dives, shepherded by our insatiable curiosity and desire for connection, enduring inspiration, and a sense of levity that we can all benefit from.

from. We're looking to find the magic in the human experience. Buckle up, baby. Your evolution is waiting.

Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. I'm Crystal Williams and this is my best friend, Lindsay Simpstick, and we're so glad you're here. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the show. What's happening? We are a duo that met way back in the day and just started this pod to hopefully make you feel less alone. And today we have conversations about everything from health and wellness to spirituality, really supporting you through

transitions in your life, which are always kind of happening. So glad you're here. I'm really excited about this interview, you guys. We just had the best conversation. I know. It's feeling fresh. I'm like buzzing. There's an extra chair here if you're watching on YouTube. That was where she was sitting, where Autumn from Paleo Valley was sitting. I just am hyped up about some of the changes that are coming down the pipe as far as food

food and nutrition and just the education that we now have access to, to help us feel so much better about the food we consume. And during this conversation with Autumn from Paleo Valley, we talked a lot about our food system, sort of the broken aspects of it. But we also talked about the things that are happening and being changed that are going to really support us in being more healthy. And her company is kind of an OG in like how we're thinking about the food system, whether it's regenerative agriculture. It's not

necessarily at first the easy way to do things, but in the long run, it's actually healthier for us, healthier for animals and the livestock and the planet. So, um, yeah, really, really, really exciting. And I just, we were saying, I mean, the, the studies that she was pulling, like just so knowledgeable, so passionate and you can feel like in, in

In certain conversations, you can just feel that. And I think for me, that's important when I'm thinking about like things that I'm putting in my body. I want the people behind it, the hearts behind it to be just so, so in integrity and so passionate about what they're doing. Yeah. At Almost 30, you know, we talk about spirituality, personal growth, but health and wellness is such a foundation of the conversations that we have. And we want to helpfully educate people enough to

to make the right decisions, but also empower them to know that they're worth it to be eating well. Like you are so worth it to be eating well and to be eating food that nourishes you mind, body, and soul. And what's so beautiful about that is that the food that nourishes you the most is the food that nourishes the planet the most. The regenerative food, the food that's taking care of the animals, the farmers that live in Montana or the places that she gets it. And they're usually...

founded by people like Autumn that have deep passion and truth in bringing these amazing quality products to the world. So Paleo Valley is an incredible brand that we've worked with for a long time. It's Lindsay's like favorite brand ever, mostly because it has more meat-based products. I don't eat meat still, but I love their electrolytes. I love their greens. I love their bone broth powder. It's incredible. I love their organ meat complex. I'll have that every once in a while for hormones.

And I do find that so many of their products are just so potent and so clean in a way that I think makes me look at other brands a lot different too. Yeah, it's kind of like the standard for me. And it's kind of like taught me how to like look at labels because they use like

It's kind of rare to see a brand using whole food ingredients in supplements, in powders. Even like in the electrolytes. Yeah, in the electrolytes. There's usually some fillers or some ingredients where you're like, okay, I don't really know what that is, but I guess I trust that it's being used properly. Yeah.

Yeah. They're just so, so intentional. Um, and I just loved hearing too about her story. I think, you know, when you create a product or a brand based on what you need, um,

like magic things happen and it has. And so her background in being a dancer and just eating incredibly unhealthy, um, and having like very severe gut issues and just how she was able to, um, heal her gut and kind of what's come from that. It's yeah. I know a lot of people's story out there that are listening. Yeah. People always ask me what my protein powder choices. It is the bone broth protein from paleo Valley. It is like

frothy, light. It makes it like thick and so delicious. It's like the most easily digest. It helps my skin, my hair, my nails. I just truly believe that having bone broth protein has made me more beautiful and vivacious and I'm not having, you know, a lot of animal products. So that is the protein powder that I use when people ask. Yeah. It's so, so good and an easy way to incorporate, you know, I think a lot of us are on the go. We're really busy.

So putting that in your smoothie, putting that in your coffee, you can even like put it in and bake it into a muffin. I pack it with me when I travel. Oh, yeah. So that I can make sure in the morning I can have 30 grams of protein. I'll put it in water. Whenever I go to Europe, whenever I go overseas, even on this trip, I always have protein powder with me. And this is like I love the texture of it. It's kind of like –

It's different than other proteins. It's not as finely compressed or condensed, so it actually mixes better. It's just so good. So good. I'm a meat stick girl. Their meat sticks are my favorite hands down. Which flavor? I actually like the jalapeno. I'm not like a hot girl. But yeah, the complex flavor of the jalapeno is so, so good. They also have like a garlic flavor. And she said they're coming out with like just different meat blends in the meat sticks. But what I like about them is a lot of meat sticks out there are very tough.

and kind of dry. And they're quite juicy and really, really good. So I have those with me at all times. I just find that... I can vouch for that. Yeah. She's like, I smell it. The breath is always reeking. The breath is kicking. But it's been important for me as I'm breastfeeding or just doing the most lately with MAV.

then I'm able to fuel myself on the go like that. I don't even have to think about it. So a lot of the products help me to do that. I'm also cooking with their olive oil, which I'm obsessed with. A lot of olive oil out there, not sure if y'all know, is like a combination oil. So actually on labels, food labels, if it says olive oil, it might not be

pure extra virgin olive oil. It might be a blend. It might be a blend of canola oil, olive oil, and something else. So, um, their 100% extra virgin olive oil is cold pressed. It's just lovely to cook with drizzle on salads on meats, whatever you fancy, but that's one of my favorites too. Yeah. That sounds great. I am excited for y'all to listen. I'm, I truly, I was like

I was feeling things in this interview. I was triggered at points. I was excited at points. I was like impressed at points. I'm just...

This is good for anyone that's interested in health and wellness, that's interested in taking care of yourself, that wants to educate yourself more on our food system, that wants to educate yourself more on even what's going to happen in the next administration. We talked about RFK and sort of the plans he has for our food system, which I think is fascinating and interesting and I'm so excited about. So I hope you guys enjoy this one and definitely use the code ALMOST30 to get 15% off any of their products. That's the code ALMOST30.

at paleovalley.com. It's almost 30 at paleovalley.com to get 15% off any of their products. I'm such a fan of the bone broth protein. You love the meat sticks, but we pretty much use everything that they have and love them very much. So thank you so much to Dr. Autumn Smith. There's the co-founder of Paleo Valley and Wild Pastures, which is a restaurant in Denver. She also has the Optimize Paleo podcast and she just is such a gem. Yeah, love her. Thank you all so much for being here. We appreciate you.

this episode. If it feels like, Ooh, this would be a good conversation starter with friends, or maybe like you're, you feel like in the closet about your like health preference choices and you want to kind of bring it to your family, your friend group, share this episode. We appreciate you. Enjoy it. We'll see you on the other side. We'll see you guys soon. We love you. Bye. Another one of my goals this year is to remain really, really hydrated. I feel like in the winter months,

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say that they're nitpicky about the quality, but what does that actually mean when we're looking at quality? What are things we're looking for? Ooh, that's a good question. Organic, obviously. And what does organic mean? Because I know that labels are kind of funky. Yeah. Grown without the use of pesticides, hormones, or anything artificial. Hormones in animals. Yeah. Hormones in animals, antibiotics, pesticides. And it doesn't... It means something different in animal products than most people think. So...

So that will probably get there or I can tell you about it now. But you can still eat corn and soy that is organic. So an animal doesn't have to be living on pasture like people think it does. It has to be on pasture for about 120 days. Sometimes screen porches can count as outdoor access inorganic. So it's a step in the right direction, but it's not the same thing as grass-fed animals.

Does it have to say 100% grass-fed, like the languaging? No, that's a good another point. So in 2016, they kind of took away that regulation. And so grass-fed doesn't mean what most people think it means. Every cow in the beginning of its life is grass-fed. They always start the six months on grass. Whatever happens in the last 90 to 120 days...

matters and you can still grain feed under grass fed because people kind of bastardize the label because there's no real regulation around it. Now, if you see 100% grass fed and you call the company, they could be, but it's still not a guarantee. What you want to look for is something that's third party certified, like American Grass Fed Association. They will go in and actually verify because most of these claims are affidavit based, meaning the FDIC,

The USDA comes in and says, here, write down about your practices. Tell us what you do. And then they will fill something out. And then no one will really check on it. And they actually did a check, the FSIS, the Food Safety and Inspection Service. The American Welfare Institute came and looked at their process, essentially, and found that 85% of the claims being made lacked sufficient substantiation. How many? What percentage? 85%. What? 50% something lacked.

and 85% lacked sufficient substantiation. So yeah, it's kind of the Wild West out there, which is why you want to bring these third-party certifiers in. Now, organic will have third-party certification, but again, it's just the way that they feed them at the end of their life that really matters. That is, I just, this is so hard for me to hear as an animal lover in general. It's just like, okay, so what, like to think about, okay, so they're living in like pens. You're like, what? Why is that?

Like even for our health, why is that okay? And why is this like part of the process? It's like the standard. So we're like grass fed. And you think, I just think the idea people have of how animals live in this way is so different than what is the reality.

Of like how they're being treated or how they're like... Oh, yeah. That process. 90% of animal products in grocery stores today come from factory farms. Exactly. 90%. Despite the like vast array of pretty and seeming warm and fuzzy labels, 90% are coming from factory farms. Why is it... Is it like the truly pasture-raised products? Are they more expensive? Like in terms of...

how to make them or like maintain the animal's lifestyle? Like what is it that deters companies from actually doing that? It's because we've prioritized efficiency over ecology and the environment. And in 1850, before that, every animal was grass fed, like cows, for example, and they would live till about four to five years. It takes a really long time, four to five years. That's a good life, right? Out on pasture. But they found a way to speed it up.

with CAFOs. Well, the advent of antibiotics means you can put animals in small spaces and you don't need to make sure it's clean because we can give them antibiotics and prevent illness, right? We have hormones that make them grow faster. Grain feeding makes them fatten more quickly. We had supplements like vitamin D supplements so they didn't have to be outside anymore. They could just give the animals the supplements. And so just because they thought we need more, more, more, now today you can grow a cow in

14 months, 18 months, right? And chickens have a very short life. And it's just because of what we've prioritized. We want fast, cheap meat. And there's an environmental cost. There's a human health cost. Of course, the animals are suffering. Inhumane treatment like tail docking, beak clipping without anesthesia, taking the babies away from the mothers within hours of birth. You know, there's actually male chicks, like millions of male baby chicks are just

killed because they don't fit into the production system when they're in the egg laying system. Hogs are in farrowing crates. You know, they can't even like sit down. Chickens with less than a space of a piece of paper to live. I mean, I think we all know that's not how it should be done, but that is how it's being done. And companies are using those warm and fuzzy labels to make you think, you know, it's natural or whatever to kind of fool you because they know people don't want their animals to be raised that way. But we as consumers, we have to kind of drive that

them in another direction. We have to educate ourselves. You know, what's funny is we're doing that to animals and we're also doing that to ourselves. People are living in boxes. Yeah. They're injecting themselves with vitamin D because they're not actually getting the sun. Yeah. They're eating just processed shit foods. And so it's so funny that we're just like thinking that we can just get away with this, doing this to animals, but we're actually as humans living a very similar life. It's wild. But I do. Oh. No, it's just...

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Like we can't just do this to animals or creatures and not expect us to not be living or doing the same. You know, like even living in New York City, like you're living in a box, you have like wire around your window and like you're never seeing grass. You have to inject yourself with vitamin D or supplements. Like how is that any different?

It's not very different. And I love what you brought up about the cycle. Like we can't do this to animals. We can't do this to nature and then expect ourselves to thrive. Yeah. Because nature will correct itself. Yeah. And if we keep destroying the environment, we're in for a rude awakening. But you're exactly right. The parallel is the same. Our priorities are askew. We need to go back. We need to take a step back.

And, you know, keep a lot of the modern advances that we have, but also realize we're part of nature. Without nature, without treating animals well, we're just not going to make it very long. So the argument is people are like, it's too expensive. Yes. People wanted fast, cheap meat, and now they found a way to commoditize it, essentially, right? But it's, you know, full of hormones.

full of pesticides, antibiotics. We're dealing with antibiotic resistance, obviously, that kills 700,000 people worldwide. 70% of the antibiotics used today are used in animals. And they tried to come in and use regulation around it, but...

They can't use it to fatten them up anymore, but what they can use them for is to prevent illness. And so, and there's also very high levels, sometimes like the chicken industry, for example, lobbies for very high thresholds. And so there is question about whether they are getting them low enough to actually be considered antibiotic free. And then people come in and do these tests like,

15% of the animals in the no antibiotics ever program, for example, a piece of research came out, they still have antibiotic residues. And so it's just, and 26 in the gap program. That's like us too, just injecting ourselves with hormones and drugs to live. We're like just injecting ourselves with so many different things. So the pharmaceutical, sorry, sorry. I just want to, for the pharmaceutical, what is the pharmaceutical industry's investment or

Yeah. What is their investment or interest in this space because of so much it involves them? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, 70% of the antibiotics worldwide go to animals. And there's also drugs like rectopamine. Have you guys heard of rectopamine? No. It's a beta agonist that they give a lot of times to pigs, but it's banned in 160 different countries and yet it's legal in America. And what does it do? It basically like kind of hypes them up. It's a beta agonist, so it makes them put on more muscle more quickly. Okay.

But yeah, and it's like linked to heart palpitations and some poisonings and lameness in animals. And so other countries don't use it, but we use it here. And then there's hormones, right? There's at least six different hormones that are used today. And there's been 30 used historically. And so, yeah, I mean, pharmaceutical industry profits considerably from what they're using in animals. Wow. And then we, you know, some people believe that the hormones that we're using

There was a paper that it was linked to precocious puberty or early puberty in Puerto Rico, for example, right? Not necessarily cause and effect, but an interesting association to explore. And it makes sense, right? We have hormones in our water, in our plastics, you know, all the things. And then in our animal products, possibly too. But I think antibiotic resistance is the one that scares me the most because if we see a day where a routine infection or a simple procedure, we can't use antibiotics anymore because...

We've left this system to create so many antibiotic-resistant bacteria. That's really scary. It's a terrifying proposition. And in terms of, like, the role that the government plays in, like, the regulation, is it so, like, loose and...

not super clear. There's not like a clear like line in the sand when it comes to these like 100% grass fed. Well, if it's, you know, if they can do corn and soy at the end of their life, why do you feel like it's so vague? Is it money?

Like, do you have to pay to pay the government? Like, what is that? I think it's because, yeah, they're understaffed, right? Because they don't have enough money to go check, send a third party into the farms and ranches every time in order to verify what's actually happening, right? They're probably overwhelmed. There's a lot of different operations. And so they're just basing it off of what the farmer says they're doing, right? Rather than sending people to look most of the time. Now, organic is a little bit different, right? Because they are going to have that third party certificate.

certification. But also that's why all these other third party certifications, Animal Welfare Institute, you know, Certified Humane, American Grass Fed Association, they're kind of filling that gap. But yeah, you can't really necessarily leave it up to the government because they probably don't have the manpower to check or they don't want to. I don't know which one it is.

Where did this passion for this come from? Obviously, so many amazing products, but we were talking about kind of your history and dance and performing before. And I'm like, wait, how did we get here? Yeah, it's a crazy story. So 10 years old, I started to have digestive issues that no doctor really could treat. I was always a ballerina. I started at four, dancing intensively. Then when I hit my teens, because they told me, just take Beano, right? That's iconic. That's deep.

That's what they told me. And I was like, wow, that doesn't seem to be working. But as I got into my teens, those gut issues started to manifest other ways. You know, my mental health started to deteriorate. We didn't know about that connection at the time. Of course, my parents took me to the psychiatrist, talk therapy, medication, all the things. And then I just started to kind of feel like a zombie again.

It didn't help. And then it just became a little bit hopeless. I think I was in physical pain and also emotional pain. And I was a teenager, right? That's just a hard time. So I even got kicked out of my parents' house before I graduated high school because I started to get substances. I actually was older in my class, so I was 18. But it was, you know, around November of my senior year.

And so I got kicked out, but I still pulled it all together. Loved dance, loved learning. I think learning drives me a lot and made it to LA to dance for, um, to work for Tracy Anderson, do a little dancing. And then I met Chaz. That's where my story really changes. My husband and he just saw up close, you're in a lot of pain or do you, you really live like this? Like you are, you're bloated, like you're a fitness trainer, but you're bloated, so bloated. You look pregnant by the end of the day. And I had anxiety and

and he's just like, we just need to do better for you. And so he got on the internet, found some people were treating digestive issues with food, which at the time, back in 2007, I was like, no way. Like, no way would this work because no doctors told me that. And we even went to doctors in LA. But anyway, we tried 30 days of just cutting out processed foods.

And my digestive issues were completely gone. Then we shared it with 200 of my friends in like a little Facebook group. I was like, this is wild. Let's see if this helps anyone else. And then a lot of them experienced benefits and

My mental health got so much better over the course of the next year. I was a different person. And so we decided, okay, why don't we create products? Because I went on tour with J-Lo and we were like doing a seven month tour and I couldn't quite find the staples that I needed to. So my health kind of like took a backslide and I was like, we need to do this for people who

you know, want a busy life or just don't want to spend their lives in the kitchen. So we went into the product space. We had never, ever known anything about product manufacturing or farming and ranching. I mean, I grew up in Montana, so I had a very preliminary knowledge. But yeah, it was just the way I felt. I was like, I want to give this away. I want to help other people. I know a lot of people are suffering. And how do we meet the market where we saw the biggest gap? It's interesting, though, like,

So I have two questions that are going in different directions. So let me just land. Let me do the first one. So if you met your husband and you were struggling and your mental health was really crap and then you changed, what was that experience like for him? You know, to meet a woman and fall in love with her, but yet she's struggling and then have a woman completely change in the best way. I think it was wonderful for him. Yeah. Because I was, I always put on a happy face and I could make it happen. And I was, you know, up

beat until the end of the day. And then I just really fell apart. And then I would start creating kind of like conflict between us. And I was drinking heavily. And so it just seemed like peace. And that's how his parents were. Right. So that's the relationship kind of that he knew was one of peace and support and compassion. And so when I got rid of all that extra stuff, I was able to kind of

be like he was, which was probably just felt really refreshing. I knew that when I met him, he was very, he was ahead of me. Wow. And many of my friends would tell me, like, he is, I've never heard that in my whole life. I feel like that's rare. Yeah. I've never heard one single woman say that. Really? Yes. That is my fantasy. My roommate actually said. But then I would clip him so that I knew I was further ahead. I was like, that's my fantasy. Actually, no. I need him to have a reason to stay. I need to be his teacher. You know, like, fun teacher. Yeah.

He's not going to love me. No, it's a very vulnerable place to be. They're like, oh, wow, you really have your act together. And other people are seeing this. That's hilarious. But yeah, he just saw, I think he saw a good person underneath it all. And just, yeah, I don't know, something. But I feel lucky. And then the second question, just, so tell, in your story, when we think about your story,

A lot, not a lot, but people have had experiences where they've eaten differently and it changed their body or their relationship to themselves in their life, but they don't go as far as you go with things. So what made you want to go so far? Because you could just be like, Hey guys, I have a meal plan, 30 days, eat unprocessed food, feel better. Like,

To have the standards that you have with Paleo Valley is next level. So what was like that, not extreme, but that sort of just journey to the intensity? Yeah, I think that's just who I am. Like I always say, the only thing I do in moderation is moderation. So it's like, it's far easier for me just to say, I'm only going to eat unprocessed foods, go. And everything's, and of course, like when I go out to a restaurant, I can't necessarily control it.

But what I wanted to do was have the staples in people's lives be as high quality as possible. Cause my body talks to me. Like, you know, we all have our symptoms speak in different ways. Mine's my digestive system. My skin is just like instant feedback. Like I can't run away from it. I can't ignore it. It's very loud. And so, um,

I'm lucky that way. I'm one of those highly sensitive people who's had to come around to realize there are gifts there, even though sometimes very overwhelming. But yeah, and we're feeding these to Maverick, our son.

Our family, this is a family business. I mean, we have so much of my family working for us. So this is just, we are fully invested and this matters so deeply for me and my health. I think if I veer off, I'm just not as able as other people to not experience detriments, probably because I wasn't always good to my body in my youth and I'm paying for a little bit of that. But yeah, this keeps me feeling good and it's worth it to me. The way I feel is worth it. Yeah.

Were you always, I guess, what was your diet evolution? Because I feel like some people when they first get on like a healthy track, they choose like a certain lane based on maybe a trend. But what does that look like? Yeah, well, when I was a ballerina, I learned just count calories, right? You can smoke cigarettes. You should have coffee. You should eat lettuce and take ginseng. So it was the worst. I just got like a headache. I know. I was so.

bad. I heard some ballerinas would eat cod balls. Oh, that's crazy. No, I know. I remember going back like this and be like, good. Go home, eat lettuce, take ginseng. Like, okay. Yes. But back in the day we didn't realize. Anyway, so I thought, well, I really like candy and I, you know, I just have to count calories because everything's the same. My diet was atrocious and, you know, no doubt I had digestive issues, but then we just, you know, high quality animal products,

Fruits, vegetables. That's as simple as we went for the first 30 days. And now I'm a little bit wider than that. Not a ton, but a little bit. I can go outside. I have some bread sometimes. You know what I mean? I just, I know my body and when, you know, I've had too much. And I live in a very, you know, I'd say neutral kind of like middle of the road lane now. But yeah, it really matters to me. Like I won't eat. I don't eat before interviews. You know what I mean? My brain just requires...

a little lower levels of glucose. Ketones are very beneficial for me. And grains. I just have a lot of diabetes in my family and the grains. Have you guys ever done a glucose monitor? You guys know all this stuff. So yeah. I just keep an eye. I know my body. But I'm not afraid to indulge every once in a while. I do feel like that before I speak or

Not before interviews because we've done, you know, at this point we've done so many. But for a speaker on stage or stuff, I feel so much better fasted. Yeah. I feel so much better. Just like clearer, more energy. It's kind of like a little adrenaline kicks in, you know. Like, yeah, I just feel sharper before. And I'm not hungry. No. I just, you know, it's like such a, yeah, it's such a nice thing.

thing to know and kind of like hone in on. Yeah, I definitely, I intermittent fast most days, except for the last day of my cycle. Yeah. What do you think about that? Because a lot of women right now are talking about now it was intermittent fasting and now women are saying that they're not because of the hormones. Like what is your thought on intermittent fasting and women's cycles? My thought is pay attention to you, right? Crowd everyone else out. Yeah. I used to be hardcore and I used to do a once a week, 24 hour fast. Then I find as I age, like once I hit 41, I'm

My body was kind of like, ooh, I don't like all that stressful stuff anymore. So yeah, when I intermittent fast, it's only 16 hours. And I don't really ever go beyond that. And I've heard women who are a little bit older than me say 14 hours has become there, the time when they feel good to do it. So I think it's just like waking up and paying attention. But for me right now, 16 hours, that's all I do. And I don't always hold myself to it. It's not hard and fast. It's like, oh, did I not sleep well and I'm hungry? Okay. Okay.

I'll have an earlier snack, right? Just but for the most part, I try to give my brain. I read a lot about the brain. And so give my brain access to both the ketones and the glucose. What's been like the most important piece of your health to focus on as you get older? You look amazing and I'm assuming you feel amazing. And I think people are now optimizing like

feeling great as they get older rather than just focusing on the outside. So what's been like your obsession or focus as you've aged? It's protein. It's, you know, and that's so, it's such a part of the cultural conversation right now, but it's something I almost always avoided. I wasn't drawn to it when I was little. And so I just thought, oh, I don't need to

have that much protein, but it's the basis of our neurotransmitters, right? We're building our body, rebuilding our body every single day. Body composition, so important as you age, not for how you look necessarily, but you want to be functional. I've seen so many people with a really low quality of life around me lately, and it's just, it's heartbreaking. And I just want to make sure that I'm eating enough protein to maintain the muscle mass that I need to be able to run around with my son. But also, you know, just whole foods, fruits and vegetables.

I have five to eight like servings every single day and then just really high quality animal products. And of course exercise. I mean you can't exercise is my favorite thing. But yeah, just dialing in the diet. Greens are really important for my brain too. I don't know if you guys...

There's research that... Green brain? Yeah, greens. Like two servings of greens in this study was able to keep your brain looking about 11 years younger. Two servings every single day. So that's just one thing I do every single day is like a green shake. My husband laughs at me because it doesn't always taste great. It's like spinach and kale and lettuces and then our greens powder and...

usually a protein powder and just some lemon, maybe some blueberries. And then I blend that up. And every single day, it turns my brain on in an instant. So that's like, that's my staple. I get a lot of vegetables in and then I can kind of just like live where I want. I just like listen to my body the rest of the day. But that's something I do every single day. And then my protein is the centerpiece of every meal and every snack. I'm sure you guys have talked at length about that. But that was a big shift for me. Because before, what was it? Yeah.

A lot of grains, a lot of bread, a lot of cheese. And that was my diet. And now it's, I try to make a hundred grams every single day of protein. And that's hard for me actually, but it's a goal. You guys do the same? I'd say a hundred is my goal. Yeah. Yeah. I'd say, yeah, that's a good goal. I say my shakes usually like 40. Yeah. So I'll do like a pretty heavy shake.

And then I do fish, beans. I do these lupini beans. Have you heard of brahmi lupini beans? 20 grams of protein. They're great. Okay. In a bag. Nice. They're so bomb. Nice. I love your bars. I have your bars as snacks all the time. Yes. Like meat sticks for my interview days. Yeah. It's hard to like... I put two scoops of the bone broth protein in there because it gives that extra and it's like fluffy and so good, but...

Yeah, I'm like, I'm loose about it, but I do think 100 grams is kind of what I like to do. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I think it's a nice, easy goal. I think it's a good one for women. What about for your son? Like, how are you thinking about, because I feel like people who do have kids or kids in their lives, like it is crazy.

sometimes hard with their ever-changing palate to, you know, prioritize things that are healthy or protein-centric. And I know they don't need as much protein, but I guess, how do you think about that? We always just tell them the protein first. That's our rule at a meal, right? Yeah. Like, while we were traveling, he had a cookie and I was like, okay, we need a little protein first. Like, have a few eggs first. We don't not have fun. It's just

We teach him about blood sugar stability and you're going to crash hard if you don't do it. So yeah, it's really loose. And he has to try everything at least a bite, right? I'm not going to, I'm not into forcing him to eat. And yeah, he's not eating a perfect diet. He eats, you know, our whole foods. That's all we keep in the house really. But yeah, you gotta have, he's actually embarrassed a lot of times at school because it's so painful for him to eat so differently than everybody else, which is really sad. Yeah, say more about that.

Yeah, basically he's don't pack those beef sticks, even though his classmates really like them. You know, he wants the Cheetos and the goldfish. And mom, everybody looks at me, you know, like I'm so different because you won't pack me those things. And I'm like, I'm sorry, buddy. But eventually you will thank me. And I just think your brain needs to.

to be powered when you're at school. That's not going to help. And so we rationalize, but we also make sure that he knows I understand that it's hard to feel different than I've been there. And so we empathize with him, but we still don't let that necessarily change what we give him. I used to trade. Like my mom was kind of the same, generally healthy.

And I'd like, I would trade for Doritos or whatever. And I'm sure he's doing that. You know? Does it, like, I'm like, is it the school? Is it the, like, how do we all get on the same page? Yeah. I wish we could. But yeah. Is it the marketing of those brands that have like a chokehold on kids? And the little characters? Well, I mean, these foods are designed to be addictive. Yeah. Of course. I mean, they make you not want to stop eating. They're full of sugar and salt and, you know, sugar.

man-made fats, dyes. Exactly. That just, they're different, right? That is their design. So yeah. And I always tell them that it's not your fault. Of course you want to eat that. They spend millions of dollars with these scientists making these food combinations just so. Have you ever heard of like the power log distribution? No. This is a really cool story that Rob Wolf told me about Doritos. They used to have this bag called Doritos Roulette.

And it would have different amounts of spiciness in each chip because they know in order to like maximally addict someone, it has to be kind of unpredictable. You know what I mean? I'm literally undone. Yeah. Just like scientists. Yeah. Just like food scientists come in and they know exactly what they're doing. That's the real evil in the world, everybody. That is.

So basically because it's almost like with gambling, the way that you get hooked is the potential hope that you're going to have going to hit the lottery or hit the win. So with the Doritos bag, and everyone's had the experience where we've crunched open a Doritos bag and all of them are different types of dusting. Yeah, you're like, give me that. And so you're hoping to get the most dusted chip and they do it on purpose? Oh, yeah.

There's one called Doritos Roulette. I don't know if they make it anymore, but I know that Rob Wolf wrote... The guy in the company said, oh, you know about the power log distribution? He was impressed that Rob Wolf had knowledge of the kind of algorithm they were using to create this addictive potential. Oh, it's wild. So yeah, we can't blame our kids, but it's like we still have to help them understand this is addictive. This is not nutritious. This is not helping your body. It's okay sometimes, right? It's, you know, but...

We just have to really minimize our exposure to that. But if you get your kid, you're going to have your child in school. It's everywhere. Cupcake. I mean, every day. It's only crap food. It's like an onslaught. It's only crap food. It's really sad. I was so unwell mentally and I was eating zebra cakes for lunch and then three chocolate milks. Yeah.

I had three cookies in the morning. Yeah. And then maybe some caramel apple suckers. Yeah. Oh, my God. The caramel apple suckers. I'd have a bagel and fries for lunch every time. Oh, no. I don't think you're surprised that my brain was actually working at all. No, I know. Like, too shocked. Like, shocked. Shocked by the way I treated myself. I know. And how I'm still here and survived those hormonal shifts and everything. But, yeah, it's hard out there for my little guy. So do you feel like it's for parents that parents are just...

And I'm saying this, it's going to sound judgmental, but I don't know how to say it otherwise. Do you think it's because parents are tired? Do you think it's because they're uneducated? Do you think it's because it's easier? Do you think it's because the kids want it? What's happening? What I think is happening is I think there's a lot of...

I mean, you see the different narratives, right? Like we're in our little bubble. There's a lot of people saying processed foods are okay and eliminating them, that's a food, that's an eating disorder, right? You know what I mean? Like being too restrictive to eating disorders. And so I think there's a lot of well-meaning parents kind of trapped in like, well, what's the truth? And also tired and don't understand the full picture

potential for just how addictive they can be. And I don't think for everyone, but for certain people and certain brains, absolutely just hijacked by these processed foods. Like I was that kid. I want to do it in full out, right? If I do a little bit of it, I'm going to, you know what I mean? So I think it's more of a big deal for certain types of people, but I think parents are trying, but I also think it's, it's, it's making up 67% of our children's calories today.

67% of our kids and 58% of our calories. And so it's the norm, right? You're not, you're going against the norm when you're doing anything else, which is why our little guy feels so different, right? Wow. But yeah, so it's just, I think they're just doing what everyone else is doing and what they think. And I also think there's this, um,

obviously we're on the go, we're busy, we're working a lot, the convenience of it. And then I think there is maybe there's like somewhat of a movement I'm kind of seeing online of kind of bringing back, you know, making food in the home, like really like kind of prioritizing home cooking and making things from scratch, which takes time, takes effort and also takes learning for people who don't know how to do that. Yeah.

So I do think it's kind of this like stress decision of like, but this is just the easiest thing. My kidneys eat. You know, so it's, yeah. I wonder if like more education around it would empower people or stress people out and they would tune it out. I hope they do. Yeah. That's exactly why we're trying to just create alternatives. Yeah. Because then you can just make those horizontal shifts, right? You have the chips, but it's not, and sometimes I put it in my, a little, you know, little container so he doesn't have to, they don't have to see the brand. Mm-hmm.

Do you know what I mean? So he looks like he's like everybody else. But yeah, I think it's overwhelm. It's not being educated. But then also your kids will object and it's hard to hold your ground. You know what I mean? So I just have to, we just cut it out. We don't bring it in the home. And yeah, he's tried to Dorito in his life, but we just don't make it the rule. It's the exception. Yeah. The best we can. It is a good, I think it's something you, two things. So do you know Elizabeth Gilbert? Yeah.

Yeah. She talks about two ways of like eating. It's like some people are abstainers where they can't have it at all. And some people are moderators. So they could have things in moderation. And then you could also like either you're all or nothing person. I used to be abstainer. Now I can be moderator, which is nice. But something I wanted to talk about is how now in the zeitgeist, there's the conversation around like eating, like not eating processed food is like an eating disorder or it's like

being restrictive. What are your thoughts on that?

Oh, man. I just think it's so interesting. So we have a docuseries coming out. Judy Cho. Are you guys familiar with Judy Cho? Yes. I don't know who she is. Okay. So she's a wonderful practitioner. She's got a carnivore slant. And she was hospitalized for this eating disorder, right? And in order to be cured, she had to basically be able to eat a cupcake or something like that. Oh, yeah. And eating disorder clinics, they have to make you – they'll take the food that you're most scared of and they'll make you eat it every day. Right. Right.

So for me, it's like, well, we have to step back and think about the fact that we are not evolutionarily designed to consume these foods. And like I said, for certain brains, they're hijacked. They're designed to hijack your chemistry. So...

I think it's very counterintuitive. I don't ascribe to that. No, I think that we need to be going back to whole foods and that's what our body is going to probably do best on. And then eating these processed foods, that's a giant experiment. I don't think it's something that we should necessarily normalize. I don't think it's an eating disorder when you don't have them. I think if you have a history of an eating disorder, I know this because I had one, you can be being restrictive, can be triggering.

But I don't think it's something that you stay away from entirely. I think it's something that you kind of try to work through. And that's what I've done too. And now, like you said, I've transformed. I'm a moderator. I can have those things, right? Whereas before, it would send me into a tailspin. It was very triggering. And I've spent a lot of time really working that out. Years and years and years. And now I can be in that more moderate place. But I don't think...

I think that's absolutely kind of crazy that we want to normalize eating foods that we weren't evolutionarily designed to eat and that are designed to be addictive. Yeah. It's almost like that choice and that boundary around like I'm not going to have processed foods is triggering for other people. Yeah. So.

Exactly. It's not actually... It's an underlying exclamation point. I think Peta Kelly talks about this a little bit where... And I'm going to butcher it. But basically, like, she's like, I can have, like, clear lines in the sand, boundaries around certain foods that I'm not going to eat or feed my family. And that's not...

like a psychotic thing. Like it's not, it's not like swinging too far to the left or the right. It's like that can be okay. And it's really about how it triggers other people. And so other people are saying, that's pretty restrictive. What are you teaching your kids? And also the food companies. Yeah. They, you know, they pay dietitians to normalize and saying, I wonder if we're talking about the same dietitian. Oh, a lot of them. Okay. Yeah. There's a dietitian online that like is all about that. It's like,

I don't even know. I'm just like, this is dark. But they are paid, right? Oh, yeah. There was a recent article that came out, I think last fall, that said several of them were being paid by big food companies to say, oh, a Coca Day is part of a healthful lifestyle. There was the Beverage Association or some front group for the Beverage Group, Beverage Association, that was paying them that time. But then have you ever heard of the Global Energy Balance Network and Coca-Cola's involvement in that?

So it's just like 2015, it came out. They created this whole global energy balance network. And it was like this consortium of scientists who were producing research to say that you just needed to exercise more. It's not about the quality of the food. It's about a lack of exercise. And they were caught, the fact that they were kind of co-opting this science to bring...

They're trying to change the narrative in the mainstream, right? To align with whatever would make their products be able to be sold longer. Just like the cigarette companies did when the writing was kind of on the wall. Like, look, we're seeing lung cancer risk is increasing. How do we create doubt? We produce science that changes people's minds. And so, yeah, Coca-Cola, these other food companies, they've kind of been caught doing the same thing with the Global Energy Balance Network and I think paying dieticians. And they have a lot of...

vested interest in making people feel like they have an eating disorder if they're not eating highly processed foods. I'm triggered. Yeah. Yeah. I'm triggered because I'm like, why? Okay. So these pharmaceutical companies and these people at these big food companies, you go home to your wife and you kiss your wife on the mouth after like being like, oh, we're going to like make food that's toxic for children that like kills people. Like, I'm like, what are, how are you morally okay? Like living?

I think they probably believe. Yeah, I know. I was going to say, do they brainwash them? I think a lot of the good people in their companies work for people higher ups who might have some idea. In fact, there's like a meeting in 1999 where a lot of these executive CEOs of these big companies came together and they said, we, the sugary beverages, are probably part of this, you know, escalating obesity epidemic. And they could acknowledge that, but not all of them would. I think a lot of them believe, nope, they're just, people are being lazy. They're not working out enough. I think like you just...

You change your mind to fit whatever you want to do. Yeah, I agree. People were like, fortunately, it is wild what brains will do. Like even I see that just working with people like our brains will create and believe any narrative like you can actually and I've always did the other day. I actually was like, dude, this is so, so random.

But I have this, this is, I'm going back to the story. I'm just saying this dumb, silly story. I was at the gym and there's this, there's this guy that was talking to me at the gym and he's like, oh, me and the guys were talking about you at the gym, blah, blah. He's like, you run track probably. Right. And I was like, yeah. And I literally was like, I literally lied. And I thought I believed my lie. And then like a minute later, and I was like, oh yeah, I ran track in college. And I was thinking that I ran track in college because he was like, you ran track. So like five minutes later, I was like, I literally did not run track.

Also, with my age, when people ask my age, I lie so much that I'm like, how old am I? I've lost total touch with my actual age where they ask me and I'm like, what am I today? But again, I'm not ruining people's and kids' lives with all the lies. I think, too, they have the hook of it's everyone's fault. They need to be educated or they need to work out more. And I also think they say that I...

I think that they also believe that they're providing food that is affordable. I think it's the money. Absolutely. And that's the narrative too, right? Yeah. Because they have all the subsidies going to corn, wheat, you know, cotton, all of these major crops that can be turned into thousands of ultra processed foods. And that's really convenient, right? I mean, they are producing food. We just need to

Turn the conversation back to the quality of the food, right? And I do also think personal responsibility, if it's your fault, is very convenient for the food companies as well. And I think they like to shift that. You just need to change the way you're exercising, more exercise. And they've actually funded a lot of exercise programs in school because they're, again, around that idea. But it's just you need to exercise more. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. It's fascinating. Which isn't a bad idea, but... No, I think that's true. It's like... But just like overemphasizing one end and kind of neglecting the other, that the quality of our food matters. Right.

Are you hopeful for a change? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. More hopeful than I've ever been. It's 10 years. We've been doing this, saying this for like 11 years. And it's now becoming part of the cultural conversation. I'm so excited. And I think it will only be a matter of time before Maverick can say, thanks, mom. Look at that. That was good. I'm proud of you now instead of being a little bit embarrassed.

I'm grateful my mom was, you know, there was, there's a lot of it that I didn't need, but I'm grateful that my mom, we ate pretty well. Like I wasn't like fully being funneled that stuff. Cause it's so like, it's just not, it's not even about aesthetics. It's about your brain development. It's about my personality. Like your child, your child's personality is different. Your personality is different when you're eating these foods.

I'm really noodling on for myself just a last point on the eating disorder related to processed food of that because I completely agree with you. And I'm also like...

Yeah, it's almost like our culture normalizes processed food. So then we believe that that's freedom. And we believe that eating processed food, I think because, you know, that that shit food feels like, okay, this is what it means to be liberated and free is I can eat cupcakes or I can eat ice cream or cookies or whatever. And that is how I know that I'm being kind to my body is by being liberated and free by eating a food that is potentially bad.

And so my way of having body love is liberating myself to eat that food. But it's actually that's the distortion in believing that this food that's bad for us is freedom or is...

like is the thing that's going to help us. And what I've come to is like, I don't see food as entertainment, right? You know what I mean? And it's fine that it is sometimes, but it's just, I don't feel my best when I look at it that way. And I just feel my life full of other types of entertainment, curiosity, family time and all the things. And I'll have some birthday cakes sometimes, but it's really rare because I just see food as what builds my body, what builds my brain and feeling good.

that's freedom to me that's a good one i think it's like when you are seeing food as you're soothing and as your comfort and as your peace and as the thing that's going to make you be okay and you're finding that in the drug laden food of like the sugars the fats whatever then you feel like you're restricting something from yourself you feel like you're taking something from yourself some sort of soothing if you're not allowing yourself to eat that food

Yeah. I've done somatic therapy too. Have you guys ever done it? And that was life-changing, right? So yeah, learning to calm my own nervous system without outside inputs, that's a powerful thing. Yeah, it is. And I think if more of us moved in that direction at the same time, wherever you are and adding your journey, I think that would help you feel that freedom that people are really looking for. Yeah. Because it is just a self-reliance. And I think for me, I'm the type of person that when I have more information, I'm

It actually helps me to like make those decisions. And what I mean by that is like once I know what, you know, Red 40 does or whatever it is, like all those dyes or these ingredients that are in so many processed foods, understanding what they can cause in the brain and the body.

like that will never leave me. Yeah. But I think other people, they're overwhelmed by them information and it kind of, you know, they kind of turn off that part of themselves that would be a little bit more selective. So I just, I know that about myself. And I think what people can potentially do if they're not like that is like,

really tune into how it makes them feel and then base their decisions off of that. Because I really don't think people are in tune with how food makes them feel.

There's like, there's a numbing agent in there. And to your point of like, people are using food to soothe, then we're not really like tasting the food, allowing it to be processed in the body and thinking like, wow, actually, like I wanted to take a nap 20 minutes after I ate that. Does that feel good? Is that normal? Or did it like give me energy? And so there's just this disconnect, I feel like across the board with people who are consuming a lot of processed food where they're

they don't actually know what it feels like to feel really good in their bodies. And I did an eating psychology program with Mark David. Okay. And one of his, he tells me the story of this doctor who was like, I want to feel better. And I eat a Big Mac every day for lunch and I don't want to change that. So what can we do instead? And

That's what Mark David told him to do. Go eat your Big Mac, slow down, you know, really pay attention and just take every bite and notice how does it make my body feel afterwards?

And he said a few weeks later, the doctor was like, I don't even want them because I wasn't present. I wasn't tasting it. I wasn't noticing. And yet, to your point, I think that's exactly what's happening. There's so much going on in our world, so many things vying for our attention that we're living these out-of-body experiences and we don't even realize it. But yeah, I think, and even for binge eating, one of the awesome tips that he gave was if you're going to binge, they call it ritualizing the binge.

Light your candles. Plan it. Get your favorite bowls. Be present. Be as present as you possibly can because it's that stressed state that brings you into that binging state. And once you reverse that stress, your needs and desires, they change too.

So many of us are disconnected. As a former binger, I'm like, that's not how binges work. Oh. You become possessed. That's what I'm saying. And you're stressed and possessed. Ritual is the opposite of the binge. It's like, binge is like possession. You're like, oh, it's on and popping. Exactly. No one's around. Yeah. Let's do our thing. I'm checking out. Let's make it as fast as possible before I get full. Exactly. Yeah. So that's a good. Yeah. I think.

Yeah. It's almost like the ritual. I think even the first, when I work with people on binging, it's like just having, I think the first thought of even noticing that you're about to binge and being like, even if you're going to choose to binge, even just noticing you're about to binge and being like, I'm going to binge is such progress. Cause a lot of times you just become completely consumed and possessed and you don't even really know what's going on. You don't really even know what's happening. So just having the conscious awareness that you're potentially in it is like such a huge part of it. And the other thing is just like,

realizing it makes sense. What you're doing, there's a reason. It's logical. It's helped you in some ways up until a certain point. And just kind of having self-kindness, that always really helped too. Like, yeah, it's just a reaction to something you're dealing with and that's okay. It's a dysfunctional coping mechanism. It is. You know, for a previous version of yourself that worked for a long time, but no longer works.

suits as you get older, no longer supportive. And he always said it was like his reaction is something else you're just restricting on some other part of your life that you have a little choke hold on that you just might need to draw a little attention to. But yeah, I had to do a lot of work around that. And so I've come out the other side and I realized, yeah, restricting, you know, processed foods is ultimately a win for me in every

way. And it doesn't feel restricted. Just the last thing on that, I think is a great point that I'm sort of connecting now is restricting the processed foods is actually helpful for a binger because the only foods that I would binge were the processed foods that were hyper palatable, that were like the things that you'd want tons of that hit that spot. You're not going to binge salmon.

No. Or broccoli. You're not going to binge broccoli. Like, no. You're going to binge the hype. I mean, my thing was like nut butters, dude. Oh, yeah. Fucking nut butters. Chocolate covered nuts. I was just like, nut butters, protein bars actually, hyperpalatable protein bars. Yep. Um...

Like granola. Like it was I would move to like healthier foods, you know, for the but they were still hyper palatable, like those types of foods that were like very addictive. Yeah. And I just found stability right in that. Yeah. When you take those foods out, it's like, oh, you know.

even have that same desire to, you know, you still have to work on the underlying stress, whatever else is, you know, in your life causing it. But yeah, no, I agree. I think for some people, especially cutting those foods out can help expedite that process. Yes. And I think people also just in terms of what they crave when they do have quite a bit of processed food in their diet, what they're craving is different, you know, because of how it's affecting their gut. Absolutely. And so when you do start to incorporate more whole foods into

you notice that your palate changes, like everything, what you desire changes. And I think it's hard for people to think that like, oh, I don't want a salad for lunch, you know, because they're not craving it based on what's happening in their gut. But once that shifts, it's,

There is kind of this tipping point that's a little uncomfortable, you know, does take discipline, but it totally changes your biology and what you're craving. Yeah. In the first few weeks, I was, you know, Chaz and I would be really good for five days and then we'd go and for two days eat whatever we wanted. And, you know, but yeah, finally now it's like I have zero desire for that whatsoever. And that used to be all that I ate. But yeah, it took some time. And I used to, like I said, have to totally abstain. I couldn't keep anything in the house that...

was a trigger food or whatever. Now I can, I'm better at it than Chaz. There's one thing and I can actually moderate now, but yeah, it's been a journey. Okay. Sometimes I experienced like a 3 PM slump. I'm not sure about you. And usually I have a little bit more work to do, or I have like a lot more momming to do. Uh, and I don't want to have coffee in the afternoon. Absolutely not. Um, because it takes a while to get out of your system, but I have been obsessed with mud water. Um,

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Hey, it's Linz. And I just wanted to take a moment from this episode and talk to you about our new book. Y'all, Chris and I wrote a book. It was a journey and one that we're just so grateful to have been able to do, to be a part of, to do together, and to share with you. We're really proud. We got to say.

We're humble, but also we got to say when we're really proud of this book, Almost 30, A Definitive Guide to a Life You Love for the Next Decade and Beyond. And honestly, y'all, our hope and prayer is that you can go from lost to a life you love. I know that...

Life can serve us just a lot of uncertain seasons throughout our lives, but especially in your late 20s, early 30s. And we went through it. You heard us go through it and we've learned so much, not only from our own experience, but from experts on the podcast and just in our research. And we're really excited to share all of those lessons.

and stories in this book. So if you are feeling like you are in a season that is more agonizing than exciting, or you feel a lot of pressure to have it all figured out, maybe your job, your relationship, your life, you know, we get it. We've been there.

your Saturn return and your late twenties can really bring you into this time of reckoning, of looking at your life and being like, yo, what's aligned and what's not. And when we realized that we were in our Saturn return, y'all game changer. It became a period of true power and purpose rather than like what the, you know what I mean?

So dive into this book, order it now. It is coming out in June. I know, feels like a long ways away. It'll be here before we know it. If you order now, pre-order the book now, we have lots of goodies for you.

Lots of little gifts for our babes, including a ticket to our live virtual event, including a really special intimate workshop with me and Krista, including a Saturn return guide. So check it out at almost30book.com, almost30book.com. We're so excited to share this with you.

pre-ordered today. It means the world to us. Thank you for being on this journey. We wouldn't be writing this book if it wasn't for you. And we hope it supports you in whatever season of change you're in. I think it's, for me, that's been a lot of my change in evolution has been being very strict at the beginning and disciplined.

strict and disciplined set in quotes, but being abstaining, you know, whether it was from social media or whether it was from drinking or, and then it later in life kind of getting my bearings and my ground within myself so that I could choose consciously what I wanted to engage in. So I do feel like at the beginning it is,

It worked for me to be abstaining of things, you know, in my life and to be like cold turkey and to just cut it. You like find your baseline outside of the addiction. You find your, the feelings that you're avoiding have to come up and out, especially with food. And you really address those and are with those that when you can re-engage with something, it's from a conscious place. And they say, I don't know, I'll butcher this quote too, but within discipline, there is freedom. Yeah. Yeah. So getting those bumper rails. Yeah.

definitely very helpful. Yeah. That's like such an advanced level. You know what I mean? Like when you, like when you learn that truth of like within discipline, there's freedom. It's such a, it's such a weird thing. It is like, it's like one of those phrases that you really have to feel and experience to believe. Yes. Cause I even struggle with that. I'm like, is that true? Yeah. I want to be free. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like within discipline. I'm like,

Yeah. That takes a minute. Yeah, my part's like, no. I wanted to shift to just some of the products. I feel like I said this before we started. I was like, how do you all of the products within Paleo Valley...

I'm like, every time I look... Lindsay's the most stickler person with stuff like that. I'm psychotic. And I live in Los Angeles, California, where not a single person at dinner doesn't have a list of 10 things that they're not doing. Or their cards. But she does do that. I'm more about like what the ingredients, where it's...

grown, raised, yada, yada, yada. Like all the things. Any sponsor product gets run through the Lindsay. I'm chill. I'm annoying. I'm like, this is great. I love their founder. Like, and Lindsay's like, this has this ingredient. This is a no. Like this has this. I'm sorry. I don't do this. But I'm just so, I get really pumped and it doesn't happen often when, you know, a brand is just so

in integrity with their values. And I know it must be so hard, like you said, with the supply chain to be able to do this and produce products that are this clean or just, you know, this, you know, safe for animals and people across the board. So I guess when you are thinking about products, what...

What inspires them? Like, what are you, what are you looking at within, is it within like the community or within your own home? Um, and need within the collective. What is, what is that? Yeah, basically both. We started our product line based on what we needed. And so it was originally the beef stick. I never thought I would be a meat stick manufacturer, but I am protein. I realized I woke up to the incredible importance of that. And then, um, organ complex came next because I got pregnant and I was tired and I was thinking, Oh,

oh no, what do I need? Oh, the most nutrient-dense foods are organ meats, but there's no way I'm going to eat those or enjoy them. Chaz tried. And so we did the organ meats. Yeah. And we were establishing these really beautiful relationships with farmers and ranchers, right? And they taught us all about the nuances and all the different flavors of

grass feeding and how animals can be raised. And we became partners with them and really they wanted to move to more regenerative systems. And there wasn't always a safety net for them because going against the conventional system is hard. So we were like, okay, let's work with you. And then we became, we kind of like absorbed their passion. And that was really a beautiful place to come from because this is a team now. These are our partners. And so, yeah. And also we're feeding these to our children.

right? This is my Mavericks food. And again, my body doesn't really allow for any gray area in terms of I just feel differently. And I know, right, our health is the same as the health of the planet, is the same as the health of the animals. I'm like really grounded in that concept. And we're just sticklers. Luckily, we built our business at a time where nobody was really doing that, but it's become part. It's absolutely embedded in everything we do. And we will never deviate. In fact, we always have to, things

things are out of stock or right now we're looking at buying chicken farms just because the kind of chicken that we want isn't necessarily available. And so we're just really passionate. I think it just is deeply, deeply personal to us. And we're just sticklers. And we started that way and we're just not willing to

go any other direction. What are some things that you've learned making products? Like when you look at the products that you make, what have you learned? We don't need to like name names, but like about like greens powders or hydration packets or like certain supplements where you're like, dang, I cannot believe that this is going on. Yeah. Okay.

the first ingredient encapsulated citric acid. Have you heard of that? No. It means six. Okay. So this is like when I got off of tour, I was like, okay, something wasn't sitting right with these grass-fed beef sticks that Chaz brought over to France for me. And it was this ingredient I believe called encapsulated citric acid. So it's just genetically modified corn. They coat it in hydrogenated vegetable oil, cotton seed oil, and then it in these little balls and then it melts into the stick.

Now, that's the industry standard. Why do they do that? It drops the pH and preserves the stick. But you just have to label it citric acid. So our manufacturers, I know, we're like, I see that all the time. I'm like, that's lemon juice. I'm like, I love citrus fruit. That's the

But they would be like, oh, don't change that. You don't have to label it. You only have to label it citric acid. So anyway, so that's why we fermented our sticks. And that was our first like, oh, we can do this really differently. And so that was our first iteration. And then in the Oregon meats, you know, we just wanted them to come from grass fed, finished American. That's another big thing with us is domestic. Right. We want to support American farmers and ranchers. And 75 percent of the grass fed beef comes from another country.

In America today. So that was... And greens powders, like wheatgrass, barley grass, they're pretty much in every... Cereal grasses are like the bulk of most greens powders, but they rip stomachs up. I don't know if you've ever... If you read through the reviews, they contain lectins, plant defense compounds that can be... They can, at least. It just depends on when it's harvested and it can be cross-contaminated. Anyway, we wanted to do a cereal grass-free greens powder. And so instead we put, you know, high quality spirulina. And so, yeah, we just find...

The gaps. And, you know, apple cider vinegar complex. We did that one too. I love that one. I was recommending everybody just drink apple cider vinegar until one of my friends that's a dentist was like, don't do that. You're going to ruin people's teeth. Dude, that's what I noticed with my teeth. Yes. I was doing it every day. And it was fucking disgusting.

came from my date. Wow. Yeah. So we put it in capsules and then the bone broth is just, I love bone broth, but not everybody does. But we're missing a lot of the, you know, eating nose to tail that we used to do. So there's specific amino acids like glycine and bone broth that are very important for anti-aging and glutathione production and bile production and on and on. So like, how do we meet people where they are and create delicious products

So and people write in and just, oh, hey, why don't you do this? Or and in electrolytes specifically, a lot of them contain. I'm obsessed. Yeah. Oh, they're good, right? They're so good. That Lindsay the other day in our chat was like, hey, everybody. Let's talk about what you're doing with electrolytes because I know the best one. That makes me so happy. It's such a thing right now. Yeah.

So I feel like... What's the differences between them? Like what should people be looking for? Oh, electrolytes? Yeah. So this is what I think people should be looking for. I really like a high quality sea salt. It's going to be lots of trace minerals, right? It's not refined, right? So that's where we started. Just a really high quality sea salt. And then also we have our like potassium comes from coconut water, right? And our magnesium comes from sea water.

And the calcium comes from seaweed extract. So it's all whole food sources of these minerals rather than just being isolated in synthetic nutrients thrown into a powder with a low quality salt. And so and then the flavor is absolutely amazing. So but I really like and the balanced profile. So if you're going to do, you know, exercise every day, we like to have I think we have around like 400 milligrams of sodium.

you know, 280 of magnesium, then a little potassium. A lot of them have higher levels of sodium. So if you're an athlete, if you're a keto person, like that's okay. Right. But we wanted it for more of the person who was exercising, you know, just like normal or a weekend warrior or whatever, but just like a more of a normal person. So really, again, it's just all down to the quality. I have this reverence for whole foods and in my dissertation, meat,

beef, 40,000 different compounds in beef, right? We measure, we label about 13 different vitamins, minerals. We track about a hundred, but there are tens of thousands of compounds in food. And I just don't think we can recreate that even though we have this kind of arrogance around, well, we've isolated. And I just think there's so many more benefits that people get from eating the whole food. And research has shown that, right? I said, instead of synthetic nutrients, sometimes they increase the risk of disease and we don't really know why, but

I think it's just because we don't fully understand. Yeah, the body doesn't understand. And we don't understand the complex matrix. So that's why everything we ever do is whole food. Whole food based. What was the number you said that 75% of the meat people are getting is from overseas? Grass fed meat in America. Grass fed meat. You guys.

Where? Yeah, a lot of times it comes from Australia, New Zealand. It's because the season, like they have. Okay, I'm okay with that. That's a long ass trip though. I also thought it was going to be China. So much of the food that's labeled organic through Amazon and Whole Foods is from China. Yeah. And do we think that they're being truthful?

I don't. Oh, yeah. And also... They're a country that's very interested in economic gain. Yeah. Over the environment and over the people. Absolutely. And in the meat industry, 85% is owned by four companies. And one of them is out of China, Smithfield. They own a lot of the hogs. And we don't want CEOs in a far-off country dictating what happens in our country. Yeah. We just don't want that. We don't want our food supply to be shut off.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah, we saw that in COVID. If we're having all these things shutting down and we don't have a sustainable domestic supply, it's vulnerable. We get vulnerable. So what this can be cut, but I'm just curious. I'm curious. And I would love to like, what are your thoughts on RFK?

Oh, interesting. I'm really excited. I am pumped. I'm so excited. I think, yes, there's a lot of people who are very opinionated about RFK. Yeah. But I think what he's trying to do for the food system, remarkable. I've never been more excited. Yes.

to think, wow. You know, right now, I mean, they did an analysis. I just read the paper. 95% of the Dietary Guidelines Committee in 2020 had at least one tie to the food or pharmaceutical industry. There was only one person who didn't. Many of them had multiple. And I hear that Nina Teicholz, are you familiar with Nina Teicholz? Oh, she wrote the Big Fat Surprise.

She was on that paper, actually. She might get in there, some sort of like an advisory position. And I think the guidelines could come out dramatically different. Wow. Which, I mean, that's the basis for our school lunches. Yes. For what's happening at hospitals. I've never, I'm so excited about the potential for what he could do. We're so excited. I completely agree. I feel like just a renewed sense of hope.

of making America healthy, kind of cutting ties with the pharmaceutical companies that lead everything with the big food industry. I think what I perceive is I think all of us want to be healthy. This is the whole thing. It's like there is division among things, but it's like all of us want to feel healthy. All of us want to feel good. All of us want to have access to healthy food. All of us want to have the best opportunity to live a life that we love. And we all know now enough

to know that we have a broken system within our farming, agriculture, pharmaceuticals, schools, like food industry as a whole. We know, I think it's pretty well known, that America is so much less restrictive on

like food dyes on toxic things in our food on hormones all of these things so to think that there could be an opportunity for us to figure out how to do better which would not only improve like our life in America but jobs in America and our kids health our mental health is such a beautiful thing so that to me feels like a political and it feels like really exciting and I think it would have like

that we wouldn't even think about. Like, I think crime would go down. I think, like... Say that. You know what I mean? Like, I just think there's so many, like, symptoms we're seeing in society that actually stem from what we are feeding ourselves or what we are, like, taking as a pill or, you know, it's just...

It's wild. It's really, really wild. So I'm excited. I'm like, how long is it going to take? I'm so impatient. I'm like, we're ready. I know it obviously is a process and takes time. And to do it overnight, I think would probably not be sustainable. But...

Yeah, it's really exciting. Do you see any, like, rumblings in the food or product space about this? Like, are some people, like, a little nervous about it? Or I guess, what have you heard? I think they'd be very nervous if I were a processed food company. I know the pharmaceutical companies are probably feeling very nervous. But I'd say the processed food companies... We probably got to head out for our boy, to be honest. Yeah, I know. We've got to be careful. Especially the people who are supplying things from out of the country.

I think the tariffs, I've heard that people are getting starting to get worried about that. And then in creating a supply chain is a very hard thing to do and to shift. And so I'd imagine the food and beverage companies who are supplying many of their inputs from out of the country are.

But I also hear a lot of good things like Joel Salatin going into the USDA potentially or having a position within it. That's very exciting. Who's that? Tell me more. Oh, Joel Salatin. He's a farmer, rancher, very advocate for regenerative pasture-based settings, diversified farms, you know, organic type agriculture. So that could be life-changing for our food system. It feels surreal. I know. It does. It does. I know. I know.

I just am like, where's the catch sometimes, you know? But it's funny because I think we've all been praying as a society and culture for change in different industries. And I'm not saying that this administration is going to be perfect or everything is going to work out fine. But what I'm saying is that we now have more of a clear idea how things could change. And we now have people like RFK in place that do have more of the interest of the people being healthy than the pharmaceutical companies and then the big food companies. And so it just seems like...

The change that I think I've been wanting around our health and around our schools and around our food could potentially be on the horizon or happening. Absolutely. And I don't know if you know that RFK did a lot of work on factory farms back in the day. Yeah, he did. Righteous Pork Chop. Nicolette Hahn-Nyman wrote a book about their work. And I think Iowa mostly in hog factory farms. So really excited for that because that's one of the main goals of our company too is to make factory farms a thing of the past.

move back to more pasture-based and integrated systems. But he, yeah, he's definitely passionate about that too. How do we get meat sticks in his hand? I know. Right. Yes! I like the way you're saying it. I'm sure everyone has it. I'm sure. I hope he does. I want to know what peptides that man is on. Seriously. That man is jacked. And strong. Yeah, I'm just saying. Yeah.

I'm like, he's on some sort of, I'm like, what are we talking about, BPC? He looks healthy and strong, but he also looks his age. Do you know what I mean? How old? I think he looks... No, meaning like, he looks aged, but he looks healthy at his age. Yes, physique is just like... You know what I mean? I know what you mean. But he's got like a strong physique. Totally. How old is he? Oof.

60 something. Yeah. Something like that. Something like that. Maybe 60. That feels right. I'm not sure exactly. You know what's so wild is now this part of our ages are like what? Like someone's like 20 and they look 40 and someone's 40 and they look 20 and someone's 65 and they look 85. It's like people, it's like you have no idea how old people are. I know. There's been some sort of shift happening. I don't know if it's what it is, but I know people in my life like from my hometown that are whatever age and I'm like, oh, you look...

10 years older than that. Some of my friends in LA, you know, obviously we know what's going on in LA, but like, do you know what I mean? We know we got support, but like, I'm like, you look like 20. Like, and then, and it's also not just about what people are doing. It's just about vitality and their energy and their mindset, like alignment. Yeah. It's just weird. Yeah. It's like,

I agree. Yeah, I don't have any idea how old he is, but he looks like he'll be around for a long time. What else about that administration excites you? So we talked about regenerative farming, doing dietary guidelines. What else can people look for or be excited about? Anything that you noticed? Yeah, I think he's big on the glyphosate conversation as well. I think he will get out the...

I'm really hoping pesticides, herbicides technically, because that is causing a lot of, that's eroding our soil and creating, you know, massive pollution in our waterways. But the soil is what I think the bigger issue is because that grows 98% of our calories, comes from our soil. The basis of our economy is the soil, our antibacterial agents, they come from the soil. And right now we have a system where about

Estimates vary. 30% to 60% of the soil is already broken. And some people are saying we have 60 harvests left, 80 harvests left. We don't exactly know. But yeah, I think if he comes at it from a policy level and tries to crowd out the use of herbicides and the things that are killing our soil bile,

That is probably the most important thing that can happen. And also, yeah, food dyes. I mean, he seems to be on the food bank bandwagon where he's, you know, worried about the fact that products are made differently in Canada or other countries or in Europe than they are here. So I hope that even the processed foods that we're consuming will be higher quality. I just...

Yeah, it's exciting for me. I think there's a lot of changes. I'm excited to see too in schools like what they're able to do because I do think there's a big focus on children and just the childhood obesity epidemic. Absolutely. And I guess what policies, you know, they would be able to put in place and maybe like the money being given to schools from the government.

have that be like regulated in terms of what they can spend on? Like, because I feel like now they're just getting the cheapest, grossest things, you know, and just having there be... Well, they're based on the dietary guidelines. Oh, that's so true. I think if we change that... Oh, wow. ...then we change what's happening in all the schools, which I think is an incredibly powerful thing. So hopefully... Because government subsidizes...

Corn, soy, dairy for schools? Corn, soy, wheat. Basically, those are the inputs that 90% of our subsidies go to. And I think there's like 5% to fruits and vegetables. But if we can change the Farm Bill and give a higher percentage of our subsidies to farmers and ranchers who are prioritizing regenerative ag and things like that and growing fruits and vegetables, which they deem specialty products, then we'll change what we have in the food system. And I think that's really, really exciting. I've also heard that he's working to...

The NIH funding, some of it, a large majority of it, or at least...

closer to a majority or half will go to preventative. Like how do we prevent illness rather than what do we do when we're already ill? And what do you mean? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Which is a very exciting thing. Like let's study that. Let's study what it means to be healthy rather than what we can take when we're already sick that will be a bandaid. Wow. Yeah. It's exciting. So exciting. Connect to God. That's going to be the healthiest thing. Last question from me. What is, um,

What are some nutrients that you're seeing that most people in America are deficient in and how could they support themselves in getting those? That question. Well...

I think nutrients we're all deficient in or many of us are deficient in vitamin D, magnesium, right? Vitamin E, B12. So Ty Beal did a paper in 2022. Have you guys heard of that? No. About this paper? Oh, it's so funny because you see- I love when you throw this data in here, honey. I love it. I'm talking about that paper and I'm like, mm-mm. That food compass rating system. Do you remember when like Lucky Charms and these cereals were higher than beef and eggs? Yes.

Anyway, explain this vaguely. Okay. So there was something called the food compass rating system, and they were basically trying to put foods in categories that were more healthful than others. And when you saw it, Lucky Charms, ice cream cone with nuts, you know, all of these cereals. And then they had like beef and eggs at the bottom. So those were... Anyway, that was not the rating system I'm talking about. That is just...

One of the types of rating systems that you will see for nutrient density that maybe penalizes a food because it contains saturated fat or some other nutrient they think is dangerous. Anyway, Ty Beal, what he did in 2022 was he looked at the nutrients that most people are deficient in worldwide in middle and low income countries. And then he found the foods that would fill those gaps.

And nine out of 10 were animal products. It was liver, heart, kidney, goat, bivalves, crustaceans, fish, beef, eggs. These are the foods. And dark leafy greens.

That was one. But I think animal products are a way. They're, you know, high quality protein. We all know how important that is, right? And they contain many of the nutrients we're deficient in, vitamin B12, vitamin A, and highly bioavailable. I think this is really important. Highly bioavailable zinc and iron. Iron is our number one deficiency, right? So many people are tired.

Yeah. I mean, just so many different things, but your body can use the nutrients and animal products better than in plants. Most of them, not all of them, but for as a general rule. And so I think

So prioritizing high quality animal products that are raised in a way that aligns with environmental health is one of the most important things you can do. And obviously I love greens, my daily greens. So I think getting those greens in every single day, you get your vitamin K, you can also nuts and seeds. Like a lot of people are deficient in vitamin E even and magnesium also in those greens. So seafood, yeah.

organ meats, if you can palate them. And if you can't do organ complex, high quality animal products, vegetables, and some fruits. That's, I think those are the foods that I would prioritize. And you can do the grains, legumes if you want to, right? Those aren't bad foods either. But I just think if you're looking for maximal nutrient density, it's those dark leafy greens, colorful fruits and vegetables, and fish and organ meats. Mm-hmm.

What do you see for the future of Paleo Valley and its impact? I'm excited about that. We have so many products coming out. It's,

How? How more? I know. I'm so excited. I know. Give me the menu. Okay. So we have some savory bone broths like I told you. Those are coming out. We actually have an apple cider electrolytes that is designed to be drank hot for like the fall season. Oh, I love that. It's amazing. So those are the things. We're working on a line of gummies that's actually sugar-free, right, that is only sweetened with a little bit of honey but won't even contain like a gram of sugar. And like gelatin? Yeah. Mm-hmm.

And then we have a sleep product coming out for bone broth that includes like chamomile and saffron, like lots of different like sleep promoting ingredients because glycine already does that very well. We're working on a vitamin D, K2, maybe some zinc product, like more of those whole food multivitamins and just more meat sticks. We're going to look to go into bison. We're adding shrimp to wild pastures. I mean, we're just there's so many things.

that we're passionate about in every category. So that's the future is just continuing to grow the product line. And then for wild pastures, the same looking into, you know, creating farms and ranches if we have to, in order to maintain our standards. And we're just opening more warehouses. So, and then we have the burger restaurant too. So we're really excited. I was like, where are you opening a restaurant? Boulder.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You will love it. It's we have, you know, keto milkshakes and they're still super delicious. Everything, you know, we have organic house made sauces, no seed oils. We fry our French fries and tallow all regenerative egg. What's it called? Wild Pastures Burger Company. Wow. So, yeah, taking that we're looking at our second location. So we're really excited about that, too.

So yeah, just we're like full speed ahead because we love this. We're just, it's just our mission. You know what would be cool? This is what happens if you hang out with me. I have business ideas. I'm excited. Tell me. Creating like a little, you know, for kids, it's like, how could you create a little snack pack that's like little chunks of the beef, like little nuts and seeds, maybe like what would be some things that you could have for kids that could be like easy snack pack on the vegetables? Yeah, like a new lunchable. Oh, it would be so good. Even like a hard-boiled egg if they want to, right?

something like that. A little bit of meat. One of our little superfood bars. Yeah. And that greens powder, he used to call it ninja juice. It actually tastes really good, right? And the electrolytes, he loves. And in the morning, we give him just milk with our bone broth, our chocolate bone broth or chocolate and a little caramel. I love that bone broth. So yeah, all the things. You could do like milk that was actually bone broth. I'm obsessed with that. Could I do that for a man at this age? Yeah. Yeah? Well, yeah. He's eating real food. I give him the electrolytes a little, like a little...

Yeah. And you just test how they respond, obviously. But like I said, they're all just real food. Wow. Yeah. Even the organ meats, like people will sprinkle them on their kids' eggs and things like that. Just open the capsule. It's the same thing with essential C. It's just berries. So...

Yeah, but I love that idea. And please keep them flowing if you have ideas. To have a healthy kids, especially snacks, because you know kids, they're just always snacking. I have the hardest time finding brands that live up to my standards for kids' snacks.

So they all have a lot of sugar. I know. And the ingredients are like, eh. Or just not nutrient-dense. They're just puffed air. Yes, exactly. That's, again, why we started Brandt, too. It's like, we don't want to hear what we're not eating. No food, no soy, no refrigerators. Like, what is the rest? Yes. Is there anything in there at all? And you're right. Kids, it's a real battle. You need an adult character, cartoon character for the brandt line. I know.

- What a single rancher. - There you go. - Yeah, that's so true. - Oh my gosh, like it was a cave. - Like the rancher. - Like a super-- - Yeah. - Superman farmer. - Yeah.

I like it. I like where this was set in. Let's do it. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. This was incredible. I'm so grateful to work with you. Thanks for being here. We just love y'all and we're so pumped. So we have all the discount and show notes and stuff and we've been sharing what we love from Paleo Valley for so long and we're just so excited. Yeah. Appreciate your support. So good to meet you in person. All right. Bye, guys. We love you. Love you. Bye.

Thank you so much to Dr. Autumn Smith, the co-founder of Paleo Valley. You can find all the Paleo Valley products at paleovalley.com. Use code ALMOST30 for 15% off. That's ALMOST30 for 15% off all the incredible products from Paleo Valley. Thanks for being here, everybody. Remember to pre-order our new book coming out in 2025. It's called Almost 30. You can do that. The link is in our show notes as well as on Instagram and our website.

Love you guys so much. We'll see you soon. Bye.