The Catch Up Trap & How To Speak With Your Friends Who Are Struggling With Fertility. Uncut with Tanya Hennessy
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Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura. And today I'm very excited to introduce our guest. How excited? Yeah, I'm pretty excited because she's one of those people who, you know those people that you look at and you're like, what can't you do? And everything you do, you do it well. Maybe the splits. Can you do the splits? I'm Tanya Hennessy, by the way. Just thinking

Like, who the fuck is this bitch? No, we have Tanya Hennessy, comedian, TV personality, radio presenter, multi-best-selling author. Girl. Can I tell you, you know how you say, what are you not good at? Like, having self-control when there's chips at a party. Good. I understand that one. Not having IBS on a cruise ship. I feel that one too. You know what I mean? Like, there's a lot. Having hemorrhoids. But you're not good at having hemorrhoids or you're good at having hemorrhoids? No, I get rid of them. Oh, damn.

Have you had them removed? No, they're just... She puts them back up. Why did I stop? I need to... Well, I'll ask you afterwards. No one wants to hear about my hemorrhoids at the start of this episode. Well, Tanya Hennessy, welcome to the podcast and your hemorrhoids too. Your hemorrhoids are welcome here anytime. The guys go before I get on, you know, it's unfiltered, you can say what you want. And I was like, all right.

Two seconds in, let's talk about my hemorrhoids. We do have a big chat that we are going to be talking to you about today. Something that you are really open about and that I have resonated with on a small scale, but I know so many women do, and that is your journey to fertility or your journey with infertility, whichever way you want to look at it. But before we get to that, we want your raw, open and honest, accidentally unfiltered

Yeah, good. That's your most embarrassing story. Oh, I have so many. It's February, right? Is this pod going to come out this month? It's going to come out soon, yeah. Okay, so it's February. I shut myself twice in January. Like I don't know how. Okay, the first time maybe it just slipped out when I was driving on the Gold Coast.

What do you mean? A poo just slipped out? Like, I thought I had endopain. Nope. I just shat myself in the car. That's upsetting because you can't, like, if you can't tell the difference, that's not your fault. Right. So true. It's medical. I'm actually a victim in this circumstance and not Tom, my partner, who threw up on himself after I shat myself on the Gold Coast Highway. What, from the smell? Yes. And then, like, this is what happened.

This is our honeymoon. It wasn't our honeymoon. It was just like after Christmas. And then I got home and I had an endosurgery and I'd taken so much endone that I got so backed up that I took a bunch of like Movicol and then it started moving and I shot myself again. I was like, it's January. I'm 39. I've shot myself twice. In a month. In a month.

Look, the move a call, look, both of those circumstances are understandable and I'm here to make you feel better about yourself. Everybody has shat themselves on move a call, everyone. Anyone who's taken it, that has been the outcome. And the other one, I'm like,

maybe people who have endometriosis would understand what that was. Look at all the endo girls listening. Don't put us in that boat, Laura. This bitch is a loose unit. We are not claiming her as a part of our community. Tanya, you recently wrote an article, which I loved, and we had big discussions about it afterwards around the catch-up trap with friendships. And it was something that I wanted to talk to you about because I

I resonated so hugely with it. I feel like I'm in this phase of life where I don't create new memories with my friends. All I do is have these endless conversations about what's been going on in your life. How are you? Oh, it's so nice to see you. Whilst I'm also trying to do 50 other things. What was happening in your life when you had this realization? I think I was just seeing friends and the conversation was literally just a recap. I felt like I was just recapping my life back to somebody as opposed to living it with them. And I was like, this is

I'm bored. And also I'm sick of talking about myself. And I sometimes think it's a bit dumpy. Like they're like, oh, these are the problems in my life. I'm like, oh my God, I also have problems. And then it just becomes a back and forth. And I was like,

we've got to go to the zoo or something. You know what I mean? Like let's go do pottery. Let's go feel something together. Let's have a shared experience. And I think, you know, when you're older and you don't have kids, it's sort of when people do have kids you kind of separate a bit so it's harder to – and you'll kind of get this. You're like it's harder to spend time with them because they've got different commitments and they've got birthday parties and you're sort of like, well, what do I do and do I binge drink still?

or like, do you know what, how do I do? Should I just shit myself in the corner? And the answer is yes, twice. It's also, and like, it's not an excuse for it, but like often you have distracted conversations because if you're going out with the people who do have kids and their kids are there, especially if they're little, like I honestly feel like I don't have any quality conversations with my friends when I've got my kids around. Yeah, totally. And I always walk away from it feeling like,

dissatisfied in the quality of the friendship, not the friendship itself, but like of what I was able to give because you're talking, but you constantly have a kid running up being like, mom, look at this. Mom, do this. Mom, get me a juice. I'm hungry. And so it's really hard to have that connection and also feel like you genuinely have caught up with someone. Yes. And then you're going, is this catch up valuable use of both of our times? Like he's catching up, just talking back and forth about what we've done.

to our relationship or do we need to do something as a shared memory to actually evolve our friendship forward? And how have you changed this now? I went on a Disney cruise. Yeah, but it's easy. Wake up! Like it was actually so ridiculous and fun. You did it with your friends? Yes. And it was just, they've got kids. They've got kids who would have probably loved to have been on a Disney cruise.

But we just like lived and went to see shows and got drunk and lived and made all these stupid, ridiculous new memories. And it was great. But that's the term. And that's what I was about to say. Not just in terms of catching up the catch up trap with your friends, but you get to a point in adulthood where you forget to live and you exist. Yes. You get through every day. And then every day you're like, I've just got to get through the week. And it's like, I've just got to get through this month. All of a sudden you've just gotten through the year by just getting through. Like you're not,

you're not taking those experiences and being like, oh, I'm only working so that I can live. And we forget that as adults, that we also can still have fun and you can still have life. And I think for me, prioritizing joy has been a huge thing because I'm a workaholic. I know both of you guys probably understand this, really fueled by the joy of work. I like finding new avenues to stretch my creativity. I, you know, I will do some random acting. But

But like I find all of that really stretching and rewarding, but I want to preface joy. And part of that is being an idiot with your friend in a pool after six cocktails, you know, pretending to be a crocodile when you're almost 40. Like I want joy. I want to laugh.

till it hurts. I want to cry because something is so ridiculous and inane. Like I want to remember the friendships that I made because of the stupid nuances that we did at uni and our stupid personal jokes. Like that's what I'm craving more and more as I sort of plunge towards 40.

Tanya, how are you navigating? I mean, and I know we're going to speak about fertility quite a bit in a moment, but when you are navigating friendships with people who are in that different phase of life with kids, I mean, I know you said that you kind of, they were on a Disney cruise and like fuck their kids off. But like from when you went through that sort of like start of that period of life where friends around you were having kids, what was that like for you? Well, I've been through it twice. So

I had friends who have 12-year-olds. I have a friend who has an 18-year-old. Yeah. And I have my sister who has a two-month-old, my sister-in-law who has a two-year-old. So I've been through it twice. And the thing with fertility is you'll go through it again when your friends become grandparents. And that is an interesting piece to be like, wow, I'm going to be constantly living in a feeling like you're missing out phase one.

kind of forever, which is a really interesting concept. And someone brought that to my attention recently. I was like, thank you so much. As if I didn't have enough in my fucking head. Thanks for doubling down that I can't ever escape. Yeah, exactly. Cool. But when I was young and my friends were having children, it was easy because I was 24, 25 and I wasn't in my zeitgeist. I was...

you know, building my career at that time. I was dressing. I used to work as a dresser in musical theatre and opera and ballet and I used to do warm-up comedy on kids' shows. So I just didn't even think about that and I just thought fertility was promised.

And then now as I'm older, it's harder because I miss my friends and I want to be where they are when they're going to first birthday parties and events with their kids. And, you know, Disney on Ice, I'm like, I want to go to that with my kid. I want to be doing that. So it's jealousy, but also like I'm happy for them. It's a really hard thing.

you know, duality to balance. Not malicious jealousy. No, not at all. I think people always think jealousy has to have this negative attachment, like a negative connotation, but it doesn't have to be. You can feel something because you want it and still be happy for that person. Oh, 100%. People can have two feelings and hold them with

With equal weighting. Yeah. Have you found that your friends have been continuously inclusive or have you ever experienced friends be like, this is too hard for me? And they had that pull away during them having kids and everything else? No, it does just naturally happen though I find that people go,

we won't invite Tanya to the first birthday party because she won't want to come. She won't want to come. I'm like, yeah, if there's fairy bread, I'll be there. Like, yes, I want to come. Alan's lollies? Immediately, yes. But sometimes, yeah, it is kind of you lose a bit of contact with them because you're not where they are. Yeah. You know, when they're like, oh, in the thick of parenting, which you can sort of try to comprehend but you don't have that lived experience, but they don't have the lived experience of years and years of parenting.

You know, so you're kind of going two different ways and it's really hard and I've had some friendships really rattled by it. But, you know, we come together every now and again. It's often without kids because they want to have time where they can just be themselves and not be distracted. And, I mean, I don't have a choice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Certainly.

Let's go back to, I guess, when you discovered you even had issues. You and your husband, Tom, congratulations. You didn't get married that long ago, actually, and it looked amazing. Five months. It looked amazing. It looked incredible. We had the same wedding designer. Kaya. She does the best dresses. Amazing. So I saw Laura's dress and I was like, this is hot. I'm going to steal this. I'm going to hit this chick up. Yeah, and I did. It was hot. Hot.

But when, I guess, how did it even come to light? Like when did you start talking about having a family and when did you realize that, oh, this is actually not a given. There's some things going on here. Well, Tom is heaps younger than me. So he's seven years younger than me. I love that. I'm a cougar as well. Yeah. It's hot. It is. It's hot. What's the age? It's not much though, is it? Well, my ex was seven years and this one's five. This one. What did you say, baby? Baby!

I love you. He listens to every episode. Does he? My beautiful fiance, Ben, five years. Okay, cool. Yeah, so I'm seven. So sometimes I'll be like, oh, do you remember Tarzo's? And he's like, no. Or I'll go, do you know that song All Saints? Never, ever, ever. And he's like, no, I don't know that one. Who's All Saints? I'm like, oh, okay. He's like, you're like the Beatles. Anyone? So we first kind of tried well before we got married. So I would have been...

31 or 30 and we just started trying naturally oh what a grind I tell you especially when you're like oh it's not working it's not working and then you know went to a couple of doctors and it was just like young and healthy and you know you just keep going and I was very stressed at the time because I was you know it was it was around the time when I was really big on Facebook remember those days you were doing the skits the skits yeah it was like filmed horizontal and I would have like 30 million views per video I was like wow now I look back and I was like

That was wild. I can't believe that ever happened to me. That's so cool. Also, how come you didn't capitalize more on that? I don't know. It's a different platform at the time though as well. It's changed so much how it went from being like everyone was on Facebook to then everyone migrated to Instagram. It's kind of the same change of tides now with everyone migrating to TikTok. It's a very similar shift in user behavior. Yeah. I also think I've come to the conclusion that you only get a certain amount of time in the digital frame, if that makes any sense, and then you sort of –

Need to adapt. Yeah. Like I still make content, but nowhere near as viral as it was. But it doesn't bother me because I'm doing what I enjoy more. But yeah, so we kept trying, kept trying. Years and years went past. When I did I'm a Celebrity, we were trying. Since then, two of the campmates that I was in there with have had frigging full babies and they weren't even trying at that point. And yeah, so...

It was about four years before we did an internal scan and the internal scan was in Ashfield, I still remember, and the lady was doing the scan and she goes, wow, your endo is bad. And I was like, my what? And she's like, you've got real bad endo. I can see it. This and that. There, there, there. It's on your ovary.

And they're not meant to actually tell you that. She's like, I thought you knew because it is bad. She's like, this is probably stage four. And I was like, what? So you had no idea that you had endometriosis that time? No. And I was so mad because I was like, why didn't we do this earlier? Because it was just keep trying. You're very stressed. You're working a lot. You're missing cycles because you're flying all the time. It's probably just that. And no one did an internal until four years after the fact. And it just, what drives me nuts is when you go into fertility clinics now and they go, well, you're 39. I'm like, but I...

I was trying. That's so fucking frustrating that you are missing cycles and the answer was not let's have a look if there's anything wrong. It's, oh, you're probably missing them because you're flying, like travelling. But also I think that there are so many people who have their –

like so many women who have their issues dismissed as normal pain, normal experiences, like the amount of times that people have heard periods are painful. And I think of that time, you know, like nine years ago or even six years ago, endometriosis was not being diagnosed as significantly as it is now. And people just weren't, some GPs just weren't looking out for it. And that's exactly what happened to me. And it's fine, but that GP has kids, you know. Yeah, absolutely. You get to have kids, like.

But I mean, look, medical things happen all the time. All you can do is just take from it and keep going. And then it was like, okay, well, you've got really bad endometriosis. We're going to have to do IVF because it's pretty bad. And we did a couple of rounds of IVF with my endometriosis in its

And it just wasn't working. Eggs would break. Couldn't take the sperm with the ICSI, which is where they put the sperm into the egg. It just kept breaking. And these rounds are so expensive. And honestly, I thought it would just work because IVF works. Were you doing like have you got embryos frozen or were you doing them all fresh? So you would go in, take them, put them in, and then that was a fresh cycle?

Both. So I was trying to embryo bank, but I was also happy to do fresh if that was what was going to work. It didn't. Every time I had a chemical and I had ectopic, like it was just –

And working, you know, I know you've been through it, working on top of it is so hard when you're like, I'm bleeding and I can't let anyone know and I'm a funny gal. So, you know, like it's hard but it's invisible slightly as well and I think people get fatigued by your chronic situation as well, which is so fair. I can understand. I actually think that they don't. I think that that's something that we put on ourselves. I think you put on yourself that I don't want to burden anyone with work

with, oh my God, my cycle didn't work again. They're sick of hearing about it. I don't believe your friends or anyone would be sick of

hearing about it, but I think it's an internalized pressure that you put on yourself. I truly believe that. And I'm sorry that you're going through it. So how many times have you tried IVF? Six. Yeah. Six. And from the six, we have three embryos, two tested, one untested, frozen. And so I've since done two endosurgeries and I've just done another one a couple of weeks ago. And so I am like no endo. They took my tube. I am a fresh bitch. Yep.

So this will be my first ever no endo frozen embryo cycle, which is something I've not done yet. I've also lost 42 kilos. So I'm just like, if this fucker doesn't work.

there will be hell. Like I've done everything. I've eaten these stupid keto foods. I don't drink any Red Bull anymore and, God, I miss my Red Bull. I don't eat much sugar anymore, which has been so hard. And I've just like I feel like I've done everything possible to get what I want and I've done that in my career. Like I've tried so hard and I'm so ambitious and I feel like I am adaptable and I've done all of that for my fertility. And if it doesn't work, I feel like I'm not going to believe anything

in anything anymore because it's like, oh, man, I feel like I deserve it so much. And you do. I feel like I'd be a really good mom. And I feel like my life isn't complete. Like I really do. And I don't mean to say that for other people. If other people don't have kids, like that's amazing. And, you know, if that's your choice, like fierce, fierce. And we should discuss people not having kids more often and choosing that. It's so cool. I just want to meet my kids so bad. Yeah.

That would have made her so bad. I know it's a girl because I see her sometimes when I do my stupid acupuncture. I don't want to do acupuncture anymore. I'm going to hug you at the end because otherwise we'll just both cry the whole time.

Oh, because I see you're such a beautiful mum where I see your beautiful girls and I'm like, I want girls. I don't care. I just want a healthy kid. Honestly, I don't care if it comes out half a monkey. I'm happy. Honestly, like I don't, I just want it to be healthy. I just, you know, and I just, I want to hold my baby to term because I keep, you know,

It can't hold it. And I just want to know what it feels like to be pregnant. I want to know how it feels like to be a mum. I want to know how life feels on the other side. Becky Lucas said in a video once, and she's a great comedian, I'm such a fan of hers, she said being a mother is knowing there's a door there the whole time but you've not opened it and then when you become a mum you open it and you wonder why you never opened it. And I get it. I'm like, I hear you, girl. I want to open the door so bad. You're like, I'm trying to open it. The door!

It's fucking deadbolted. It's deadbolted. I have tried more at my fertility than I ever have at anything in my life and I've written seven books. Which is the thing that feels like so deeply unfair because it's like you almost grow up thinking as though it's a guarantee. You do. And where there's so much energy and effort that's put into it

putting the absolute fear of God into young girls that you're going to get pregnant if you look at a penis, like, you know, make sure you wear, use a condom, which for some people might actually be the case, especially when you're young. But then the alternate side is, is that when it doesn't work and then it continues to not work and then you have to go, okay, well, what is the next steps? How do you deal with the constant conversation across social media? You've been really vocal yourself in talking about your lived experience, but just how

The constantness of baby announcements, of happy pregnancies, of seeing other people living through what you want. How do you deal with that?

Well, I'm always like stoked for them. Like I'm like, yes, you got it. You got it. You did it. Like especially when someone's been through IVF, the feeling is even more because you're like it does work. Look, you did it. And I know that it was hard for them, you know, and even just trying naturally. Some people try for years because they, you know, want their natural pregnancy. It's like, yes, I love it. But sometimes when people are going through their pregnancies, I do have to mute them not because of I don't like them or I'm not stoked. It's for self-preservation because it's like –

feels so far away from me. I'm trying to manifest. Do you feel this added level of, okay, well, I only have three times that I can try. And then how do you fathom if you are, or decide, I should say, are you going to try and do all three yourself? Or is there a part of you that's like, okay, do I save one and then hope I do a surrogacy with it?

knowing that my body might not be able to carry it because when those three are gone, there's this stress that you would feel every day that's on top of your normal fertility stress. Yeah. So I think we'll put two –

So I'll do one in March, so like next month, and then I'll do, if that doesn't take, it depends on what happens to it, where it sits, what time it sits because you might have to, you know, and then put the other one in if that first one doesn't work and then the third one I might see if I could get a surrogate. Yeah. And then I might look into egg donation.

Well, it's not that I don't want to. It's hard. It's hard. It's a different conversation. It's a long process. And it's also something else to get your head around because once you've, like, okay, well, this is next step, it's almost like, and I can only assume, it's like so far in the future to think about, well, that's then the next step.

option, you know, and then going through the process of finding someone to do that. Like the fertility processes are very complicated and it's not easy to access all these things. And same with fostering and adoption. People think it's really easy. One thing that drives me nuts on comments is people go, don't worry, Tanya, you can just adopt. I'm like, do you know how hard adopting is?

Speaking of this, though, I can only imagine, and I've seen you speak about this actually on socials, about the way in which people respond to either infertility or like when people are really struggling in the depths of trying to become pregnant, how people respond to that can be a good thing or a really damaging thing. What do you think is the best way for people to respond?

Speak about it. Approach it. And what have been some of the things that you've experienced that you've been like, that was fucking not the right way to talk to me about this? One thing that really, and this is like because I work in an industry where some people know who I am is like I'll be having lunch and my brain is like not thinking about fertility and someone will come over and just go, oh, I'm so sorry.

Like a stranger. And I'm like, oh. And I'm like, what are they for? Like, oh, my God, for what? Is it that they know I shot myself in the Gold Coast? And they're like, I shouldn't have done that in front of that Marriott. And they. The Hilton. The Hilton. Fuck.

Fuck the Hilton have reported me. Honestly, I reckon it might be on camera. Daily Mail. Oh, God. Anyway, they come over and go, I'm really sorry. And then they will just tell me their situation. And I'm like, yes, okay. Or the other thing is, you know, you go, oh, God, yeah, it's really hard just, you know, to someone. And they'll go, yeah. I mean, my husband, like, looked at me and I got pregnant. I'm like, that is so wild. Also doesn't help. Yeah. It's sort of like you're going, oh, I'm really sick. And someone going, so weird. I am well.

I have never been more well. It's like just you would never. But I do think there is a discomfort in talking about it and people feel uncomfortable and scared because they don't want to say the wrong thing. I can understand that. But I think half of the reason I decided to talk about this so much, and I really don't want to become the face of IVF, I want people to remember that I do have art and I do create things and I am more than this story. I am

You know, this is just a part of my life, not my whole life, and I do create things. Read my books. Read seven of her best-selling books. Pink Santa. It's not even Christmas time and it's like the hottest run in our household. Yeah, it's so good. A classic. But, yeah, like…

I get it a lot, just people going, I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. And I think a lot of it is listening and asking, hey, is this a good time to talk about this? Do you want to talk about this? If I get the hairdressers, they'll ask. And I love that. Hairdressers have no boundaries. We love them. Oh, when they go, hey, do you – like I had a makeup artist the other day, actually, you know, Carla. Oh, yeah. One of my closest friends. Yeah, she's great. She was talking about Maddie, actually. And Carla was like, do you want to talk about IVF?

And I was like, oh, I love that. That is so nice. You know, sometimes you might want to, right? And I was like, yeah, sure.

But it gives you that ability to say no or just say, if you don't know what to say, sorry is a good one and listening. Don't try and fix it. I think, you know, people will often go, oh, have you done acupuncture? I've got a friend who used a witch and the witch had this wand that she found in a forest and a lizard licked it and unbelievably three kids. It's like, come on, love. If I've gone through coming up to seven rounds, ho, do you not

reckon I've seen a witch in a fucking dungeon. Yes, is the answer. I've done kinesiology. I've done Bowen therapy. I've done every type of meditation. I have prayed to every type of God. Ho, do not tell me what to do, especially if you've not been through it yourself. Yeah, that's the hard part because they just want to connect and help you. But it's also like, yes, I have turned the computer off and on.

You know, like I am, I'm there. It's also just inappropriate. But I mean, I know you say you don't want to become the face of something like IVF. And I definitely don't think that that is what's becoming. You have so many accolades and so many achievements. If anything, I think you're known for too many things that you can do. It's like my biggest problem. My manager's always like, just do one. I'm like, I can't. Impossible. I can't. The reason why like this conversation is so important is because it's something that happens to so many women. But

all you seem to see online is the happy outcomes. And I mean, it is becoming more common now that when someone has been through an IVF journey that they're talking about it. But historically, it wasn't that part of the story that was being told. It was just, here's a baby. And

Even miscarriage is something that we're talking about more. Like no one wants to be the face of that club, but I think it's only by talking about it that other women who are in the exact same spot go, yeah, fuck me too. Girl, I needed Jackie Gillies. She talked about IVF on Real Housewives of Melbourne. Yeah. Girl, if she hadn't have done that show and been so open about her journey, I don't reckon I needed to see myself. Yeah.

I needed to see it. I needed to know that I was not going crazy. So I guess the idea if I put myself out there, even to be honest, what I share is so bare minimum compared to what I'm actually going through and experiencing. Like I show, you know, very small parts. But if it helps someone feel less alone because I think the rate –

self-harm and those types of things and self-hatred in people going through IVF, like it's very high. Depression, anxiety, real, real, real sad feelings because it's uncontrollable. And I think if I can bring attention to that and help someone get out of that dark space or just see themselves, then it's worth putting myself through this slightly uncomfortable, you know, public position. I think one of the most like

like powerful conversations. It wasn't even a conversation, to be honest. This sounds so – this might be hard to put into context, but hear me out. When I did Dancing with the Stars, Mary Custis, she has a girl, a daughter, and had been through 23 rounds of IVF. Like it's unfathomable how many rounds of IVF she went through. And she did this – oh, I'll cry just talking about it. She did this dance at her last dance on Dancing with the Stars and it was her dancing in the middle with 23 lights all around. Oh, stop it. Yeah.

I am said, I am said. And we just had a really, we had a really good conversation about how much it is just not a given. And this expectation that like, as a woman, you expect that you have a choice, but you do think that whatever choice you make is the choice that will come into fruition. And I can only imagine, and I think unless you've ever tried to walk in it

trying to reconcile what that conversation would be if you don't get the thing that you want and then what's the next steps you know it's very powerful of you to be able to have the conversations especially on such a public platform rather also especially as you're doing it like for you to openly but for you to openly you know because in a

In real time. In real time. I was doing it without a lot of the time not being open and I would talk about in hindsight, which if I'd go through it again, I'll probably be more real time because it's easier just to be like talking. But for you to be saying openly to the world, like I'm going to try one of my three attempts next month is really brave. And I hate the word brave. I hate it. But like to know that you are

people will be waiting with bated breath for you. It adds another layer. Oh, man, I feel like one of my biggest like sore spots is, and I know anyone who's gone through this will get this, is like I want it to go away. I want it to work so I don't feel so bad. Like I feel bad for my family. I feel bad for everyone hoping for me and I just want them to be happy. Like I want to be happy.

please people and I want them to get what they want because they want it for me so badly and I just want my mum to feel like be happy and I want my family to kind of come back together and not feel maybe as like they have to walk on eggshells because it's hard because I exist and I don't want it to be hard. No.

but it just innately is because of the circumstance. And, you know, people can understand what it's like to have children because they have children but my mum doesn't know this experience so it's alien to her and so it then becomes a little bit more alien to you and then it's very lonely. And I miss the girl I was before I did IVF because I was so light-hearted

And now I feel so weighted by this experience. And people say to me, oh, I miss when you were so much funnier. And I was like, girl. Same. Bro, me too. I miss my old self.

New South is hotter, but do you know what I mean? Like I do miss my old self. The first time I ever had sex, I made the guy wear two condoms because I was like, I will not be Tina Pereganant. And now you're like ripping them off. You're like cutting holes in everything. I feel bad for that guy. By the way, it was like two condoms. That's actually funny. I've never heard anyone put two on. I've never heard anyone make something. It was really hard. You really double bagged it. Because I was like, I need to be a – I wanted to be an actor actually. How do you manage –

I want to be careful how I say it. No, don't. No, but how do you manage the self-hatred and the blame that you put on yourself when your body doesn't work? Because so many women will relate to that feeling of I'm broken, what's wrong with me? Every time you get a negative test, every time it doesn't work. It's so easy to sit back and be like the smart girl in me knows it's not me, but sorry, it is me. It is my body. The primitive version or the reptilian version, it just wants to rip.

your house apart. I don't know. I don't know. I do a lot of therapy and I do a lot of like grounding, which is so weird. Like I'll just take my shoes off and stand like, you know, outside. It's not weird. And

Often water is really good so I'll put feet in the water, sand, head in the sky and just like channel it and ask. This is so woo-woo but I just have to do it. And I'll ask the waves to take the pain from me. Even if it's just symbolic, I need to do it. You know, I'm like take it, take it, take it and bring, when the ocean comes back, bring me joy and peace and

And that's why I'm looking for joy so much in my life because a lot of it is not joyful. Like it's hard. And also, oh my God, my IVF doctor is so funny. He's so down the lines like, Tanya, now I know you got problems but you're

We'll try and get you a kid, but I don't know. You know, it's science. Like it's really funny. Yeah. Also, you know what's wild? Sometimes it's really funny. I actually made a documentary called Sticky about IVF and no one picked it up. Do you know how harrowing it is to film three rounds of IVF and the $50,000 it costs to film it and then for every network to say no?

Don't give up on that because someone will. Yeah, absolutely. And also it's something that, I mean, I'm sure it's a lot of men who are also sitting on the board of directors who are like, who wants to watch this? And the thing is literally every woman wants to watch that. Every woman, whether you've gone through IVF yourself or…

or it's because you want to better understand how you can support your friends going through it. Like this is the thing. So many people are so ill-equipped because they haven't had that lived experience. And so they don't know how do you respond? How do you support? What do you say? Of course. And these are the things that like everybody needs exposure to. You mean you mentioned that you feel like you have this burden and obligation to your family. How does Tom respond to you during this period? And how is your relationship and the support that he's able to give you?

He is like the best person alive. I'm just such a fan of his. Like when I had my endosurgery, he's a chef. Oh, my God, I'm a genius. But he prepped every meal.

Because, like, I want to eat my high protein. I don't want to have too many carbs because I'm kind of, like, most of my... Magnesium. Yes, yes, yes. Like, and so, and I, like, I need to have all these things. And he set it all up. And then every meal he had ready to go when I got out of hospital. When I was in hospital, he came and bought, like, all my food because, you know, I'm eating this keto stuff. And he's, like, my biggest fan.

And he is like, oh, God, you know, sometimes you make shitty decisions and Tom Poole was my best decision. Like I never really wanted to be married but I really wanted to be married to Tom. Yeah. Like I just never dreamed of getting married, to be honest. It was never my dream. I never thought I would get married. Yeah. But I love him. He's just like in service and in terms of like acts of service, he's

I learned so much about kindness from his behaviour and that's the worst part of it is that this man is born to be a father and I want him to be a dad so bad. In our vows I was like, I will do everything so you can become a dad because this man will be the most unbelievable parent and he is like the most...

dedicated man. Like I'm such a man hater at times. You know, he's such an unbelievable man. Yeah. And so kind and generous. Like my mum comes over, he makes all meals for my mum. Like he's just, when my nan died, my, like Tom made 15 meals for me.

For my mum and my dad, when my best friend had a baby, he made 30 meals for her. When my sister had a baby, he made all these meals just so that's his gift of love. If he does this for my family, like I'm just getting this unbelievable experience, but he finds it hard. It's a lot for him emotionally. And he's trying to go to work and he's like, oh, this mental health wreck at home.

So yeah, well, that's a lot for him to hold. The other layer that women take on in these IVF situations is they also take on the burden of that they're taking something or robbing their partner of something. So it's like, it's an extra layer that you put on. Oh, they won't be a parent now because of me, which again, we know that there's no one to blame, but you wrote a really interesting article. I watched people wait for their baby scans while I was actively losing mine.

Off the back of that, like what changes would you like to see in the healthcare system? How do you think we can make this a smoother, more holistic approach to pregnancy that's not just the successful pregnancies?

So that piece was about the fact that when I had an ectopic, I didn't realise, but they take you out of the IVF section and put you into the public system. Fine. However, the public system, and this was not explained to me, is the pregnancy area. So it's where people are getting their scans. It's where people are, you know, having their moments. There's partners. Everyone's joyful. But you're there bleeding. And so you actually have to move from your seat so pregnant people can sit down. Obviously, I'm going to do that. Obviously. Obviously.

But I think that if we are providing IVF care, which is pregnancy both positive and negative, we need to create space for positive and negative. Pregnancy is holistic, like you said, Britt, so it needs to be encompassing all of that. If we have the facilities to make babies, we have the facilities for them not to work. Where is the care for that?

Mental health and IVF are so deeply connected. We need to start support. And can I tell you, IVF nurses are unbelievable. The care you get on the phone, wow. I would love to see that in practice, in the practices. I would love to see areas that are specifically for miscarriage, specifically for, you know, when pregnancy has not turned out the way we wanted it to. And that

means that we don't have signs around about postnatal, antenatal care when you're like, bitch, I want that. Yeah. You know, it's just these minute changes. And I had a bunch of people in that article be like, the world isn't set up for you. I was like, but it's set up for pregnancy and the holisticness of pregnancy. And if we are benefiting, if IVF clinics are benefiting financially from us,

Why isn't that money equally put into when it doesn't work, which is a fucking likely scenario? And it's when you're dropping $16,000 or between $12,000 and $20,000 a round on IVF, you have some expectations that I think –

Pretty low. Can I tell you, for my ectopic, all I needed was a blood test and an internal. Guess what they do at the IVF clinic? A blood test and an internal. And I had to wait for eight hours for a blood test and internal. And I couldn't work that fucking day. How did you find out you had an ectopic pregnancy? What was the outcome? My pregnancy hormone kept going up. Yeah. No pain at that time? Too early. Yeah. Thank God it was caught when it was caught. Yeah. So then I had to go to the hospital and they're like, okay, so you're six weeks? Yeah.

girl, that fucks your head because you're like, oh my God, I would love. I saw a positive pregnancy test. It's so exciting because I've never seen that before. I felt like a child. Do they have a reason why? Is there a more high likely chance for it to be an ectopic pregnancy when you've got endometriosis? Okay, right. It's a high risk. It's more likely to result in ectopic. I didn't know that. But also they never found it, by the way. They never found it. It was a pregnancy of unknown location. So they actually never found it.

So I didn't need the methotrexate and I didn't need to have my tube taken. It just passed naturally. So did they say to you, because now that you've had your endometriosis cleared, are they still saying that that is the reason for your infertility or have they put you in a category of unknown infertility? No, it's endo. It is still endo. So even though it's cleared out, it can still leave like a lasting damage. Yeah, or it's scars. Scar tissue. Scar tissue. Yeah. So it depends on where it attaches in the womb. Yes. Is that correct? I think so. Right. But-

I've got, was it adenosis or whatever? I've got a bunch of it. I've got frigging PCOS stuff going. Like I've got everything. It's a fucking circus in there. And the irony is I would have never known and I would have never particularly cared if I didn't want to have a kid. That's the weirdest part. Yeah. It's so unfair, isn't it? It's strange to get to a level four, which, I mean, phew.

I was going to say it's great that you don't have the pain. Yeah, well, it's great that you got to a level four and you didn't have the level of pain that some other people do. Some other, it's like debilitating. They can't get along with their day. They can't go to work. They can't do anything. But having said that, the contraindication of that is that you didn't find out you had it. If you had that extreme pain, then maybe you would have found it earlier. Yeah.

The thing is, I did have pain, but I just thought it was normal. That's the misconception, right? That we've been built to think that period pain is just a normal part and parcel. And the thing is, well, what's pain on a scale? My experience of pain is different to your experience of pain. And if you've always had that pain associated with periods, then you think that that's normal pain. And the bleeding, I just thought to go through a bedtime pad...

three times a day in the middle of the day was normal and to change it multiple, like I thought that was really normal because I could never use tampons at school because it was so heavy. And also I didn't know how effective mesindol was, which was over-the-counter codeine. That's when I, when they took over-the-counter codeine off the shelves, that's when my pain got worse because I was really feeling it because I didn't have codeine over-the-counter.

Yeah, right. And so you've been masking it for so long. It's also the case with so many people who take birth control. It masks so many things, you know. And then there used to be this real sort of thought that, oh, it's the birth control that makes you have infertility or fertility issues. And it's like, no, it's not. The birth control masked it for so many years. You had no idea what was going on in your body because you just were suppressing it. Because when you were 15 and those issues were there and you went to the doctor about it, they put you on birth control. And that was a solution to those problems. What do you think?

we can do and this is such a tricky conversation but I imagine social media contributes a lot to the pain of infertility the constant seeing baby showers birth notices pregnancy announcements what do you think we can do to make that like a safe manageable space because on one hand you don't want to take that joy from someone else it's like their moment you're happy for them but there has to be like this happy medium I guess where we can be a little bit it's

It's not up to some stranger to monitor, I guess, their announcement in thinking that maybe someone that's going through infertility will watch that and hurt. But where do you think the happy medium is? I don't think there is one. I think it's just like it's going to hurt and it's okay and you can mute or you can unfollow if it's going to be particularly triggering. But I think it's like…

Part of it. Yeah, and you, like, I would never, and I think anyone listening to this going through fertility treatments, they would never want someone to mar their joy for somebody else in a way. Like, I want people to, like, especially my sister just had a baby, right? I wanted this girl, girl. I wanted my sister to be, like, revel in it. I wanted my sister to be, like,

living her best life. I wanted her to just feel everything because she's wanted to be a parent too and she's got this cute little boy. Oh my God, this kid is so fucking cute and I want her to just

post all the time and be excited because like, you know, we should chase joy. And if that's where your joy is at that point, post all you want. Like you should feel that. And I think if it makes people going through infertility feel that way, we can remove ourselves. I don't think we should make people stop feeling their joy. It doesn't make sense.

Yeah. Yeah. But I also think that there's, there's definitely levels of posting joy and also then there's levels of being understanding that not everyone is having that lived experience. Yeah. You know, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's such an impossible one to navigate because no matter, it's like if you do or you don't, like someone is going to be experiencing a very different reality to what you are experiencing. Yeah.

But, yeah, Tanya, I'm so grateful for everything that you shared. Like I know that a lot of this, even from like the friendship chats to around like how you've navigated that to around fertility, like it is something that literally women go through every single day in so many different parts of their lives. Like I said, whether it's yourself or it's someone that you love. And even myself, I've learned so much about how to better navigate that with the people who I care about.

Yeah, I feel like I have this really loud, and you guys probably have it as well, voice inside of you that is like what you're here to do. Yeah. And for me, I think, and I always come back to it, everything I make, everything I create, I'm running a TV show at the moment and it's really exciting and I so hope it gets up. Brittany, you've got to be in it! I've written a whole TV show as well. We need to talk. Okay. But the thing that I keep coming back to and it's so beautiful

I think is that I think I'm here to make people feel less alone. And so sometimes sharing some really dark, awful truths and painful things or embarrassing things, cringey things is going to make people feel less alone because this world is kind of hard. And if I can soften it for someone, maybe my life is worth it, you know. What a powerfully beautiful contribution that that is. Yeah, and I hate that you said that you don't want to be the face of infertility yet we've had you on here to talk about it. Oh, everyone does. Don't worry. Bye.

But what I want to say to people is we will have you back on this podcast. You are one of the funniest people. You are such an incredible talent in the entertainment industry. And if anyone has just discovered you somehow from this episode now, please go and investigate every part of Tanya's life because she's brilliant. And we'll have you on another time where you can just laugh the fuck and tell jokes the whole time. You don't have to talk about your pain and trauma. But you have absolutely done that with this episode. You have made so many people feel less alone, I promise you.

myself included in a way, but I know how many women go through this. You know how many women go through this. The clinics, when you go in there, it is quiet and it is deafening and it is awful. When I've gone into the clinics before, I have run into so many people I know in there doing the same thing. People still feel a certain level of wanting to conceal it and not wanting to talk about it. They don't take it to their workplace. They cry in the toilets. Yeah.

I don't want that for people. I want to get rid of this stigma. I've seen people here at my workplace in the clinics and we say hello and it's like this unspoken thing where you don't talk and that you look at each other across the clinic and I'm like, and in my eyes, I'm like, don't worry, I'm not going to tell anyone that you're here. Like, not that it should be like that, but you've made people feel less alone. And also, I know this is going to mean nothing to you, but...

I am huge in manifestation. I manifest everything. And the second that you leave here, I'm going to be writing it in my notes. I'm going to do a manifestation for you. Please. And people think that's woo-woo. No, I'm so woo-woo. I do a manifestation board every year. Yep. Every year. Mate, let's do it every month. Oh, shit. Okay. I'm doing it wrong. I put real random stuff on there though. I don't even want to know what you put. Please stop shitting myself. This year I didn't shit myself. I wanted to own a bunch of like lizards. Anyway.

You don't have to manifest that, Tanya. You can go and buy yourself a lizard. Was that post being in the jungle? You're like, mm, lizards. That'll make me happy. You can buy yourself one. God damn it. I can't do reality shows. I honestly, Brit, I don't know how you do it. I love them. Yeah, but you're good at them. You're good at them. Someone was dragging me on my YouTube.

Yeah, I was dragging Britney. I thought, yeah, take down a pig. No, on my Dancing with the Stars announcement, someone was in there dragging me. There's always trolls. Always. And Tanya pops up to my defense and she's just like going the trolls back. But somebody was like, oh, my God, what reality show wouldn't this girl do? And I just wrote, maths. And then I thought, what? I love reality. Why am I? Oh, I would do maths. No.

But I was like, when he was right, I would do this. Like, when you think about it, who wouldn't want to go and dance for two months and have fun? Like, of course I'm going to do that. Can I tell you, that is like the best show. I'm like going to be this like uncomfortably close to the TV when you're on. We need to get you on there. I'm going to get a team Brit shirt. Yeah, please. I'll be –

Did you enjoy it? I loved it. Yes. It's a fun. Yeah. It's a really fun show. That was the only reason why I did it was because Matt had done it prior and he had loved it so much. And I was like, it's my turn. So yeah, it's really, really fun. I feel like I used to see Matt so much because we used to do a show together and we used to talk all the time. And now I just randomly ask him annoying questions all the time. And he always answers when he's like looking after your kids. Like he's always like in the middle of dadding. And I'm like, Matt,

What do you reckon if I made a video and he's like, Tanya, Lola, don't do that. Yeah. I think you could don't sit down. Like it's so funny when he comes back to it.

He's daddy. He's daddy. Hardcore dadding. That's what he is. It's usually Lola getting fingers out of your ass. Like she'll be there just trying to like stick her hands out of her underwear. I mean, to be honest, relatable. Yeah. Don't we all? Let her just live. Tanya, you are an absolute dream. Guys, we'll link everything in the show notes that you can find all of her stuff, all of her best books. Also, once again, Pink Santa. And thank you for coming, being part of the show. Good for this age group, I think, that's listening to this podcast. For all the young women? Pink Santa. Unbelievable. It rhymes.