Episode 40: Interview with Jackie Kirchner, Nutritionist; Fuel better, run faster
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Welcome to Chasing Life podcast where we talk about fitness, running, career, and life tips to inspire you to live your best life. I'm your host Sarah Cain and I hope you enjoy today's episode. Welcome to another episode of Chasing Life. Today's guest is Jackie Kirchner. Jackie is a registered dietitian who works with enthusiastic dedicated distance runners who want to fuel their bodies better so they can improve endurance and fitness, increase energy, and run faster.

We cover many things in this episode, including common misconceptions with runners and nutrition, what causes runners to bloat, what is runger and how we can prevent it, tips for fueling post-run, what quarantine trend she is obsessed with, what she is currently working toward in her training, and how she feels about running a virtual marathon.

Of course, an episode would not be complete without also discussing what chasing life means to her. I also want to ask you to stick around until the end of the episode for a new segment that I hope you enjoy. So without further ado, my interview with Jackie Kirchner.

Welcome, Jackie, to Chasing Life Podcast. I'm excited to talk with you today. Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I'm really excited to be here. Now, we've been connected through Instagram and we've been messaging each other back and forth, but I'd love if you could share with our listeners who you are, what you do, and how you ended up being a dietitian.

Yeah, I'd love to. So I am Jackie Kirchner and I am a runner. I am someone who loves running. I run a lot of marathons, half marathons, 5Ks. Haven't ever done anything longer than a marathon, but I love running and I'm also a registered dietitian. So that means that I went to school for dietetics. I did 1200 hour internship, passed an exam, have a master's degree in nutrition as well.

and so I'm a little bit of a nutrition fanatic, I guess, a little bit of a nutrition nerd. I love nutrition, I love running, so I combined the two and I am a dietitian that works with runners because one of my passions is helping people realize how running can be impacted by their fueling and how well they feed their body. So I really know that

From a firsthand experience, I've experienced how eating better has impacted my performance and I just really want to help bring that to other runners as well and share that passion and help them feel better and run better and, you know, just have a great experience and love running. So that's a little bit about what I do.

And I became a dietitian. Well, like I said, I did an undergraduate and a master's degree and an internship. So yeah, when I first went to school, I didn't think I was going to end up being a dietitian, but I always had an interest in nutrition and I thought about nursing school and it didn't work out and I wasn't disappointed. And I was like, oh, well, that was a sign. So I ended up in the nutrition realm and haven't looked back.

That's awesome. So working with runners over the years, have you found there's a couple common misconceptions or struggles when it comes to fueling for performance? Yeah, there's several, but one of the ones that comes to mind right away is

I can't eat before a run. Like people think that they can't eat before a run or sometimes during a run. They think that, you know, their stomach can't handle it or they'll have GI issues or they'll be running to the porta potty or they'll need to turn around and come home because they won't feel well or, you know, need to use the bathroom.

So that's one of the most common ones. I don't know if you've ever experienced that or talked to anyone that was like, oh, I just can never eat before a run.

I have, yeah. And I've had to learn over the years kind of what works for my stomach and approximately how long before I run that I should be eating or what I eat, especially on my long runs when I do those first thing in the morning versus my weekday runs, which I usually do after work. And so there's definitely different fueling that...

That I try to keep in mind prior to my runs and like, how long has it been? I last eight. What are some suggestions on what runners should eat prior to a run? Well, you touched on something really important and that is that.

the time of day that you run is going to make a difference, right? So if you get up and you're running at five o'clock in the morning, you're probably going to eat differently beforehand than if you're running at five in the evening, or at least I'd hope so, right? Yes. Yeah. So if you're running first thing in the morning and you have very little time before you get up and you head out the door, really, you're going to want to start with very simple carbohydrates.

So things like graham crackers or pretzels or banana or toast, something really simple. You want to avoid a lot of fiber. You want to avoid a lot of fat because those things take longer to digest and kind of sit in your stomach. Whereas simple, simpler carbohydrates are digested quickly and give you the energy that you need. So you're going to use it right away when you head out the door.

Versus if you were to run maybe later in the day, you have time to eat a good breakfast and you should eat a good breakfast and you should have time to eat a balanced lunch that has carbohydrates and proteins and fat in it.

And then maybe you might need like a small snack before you head out the door. And then the small snack at that point would again be something more on the simple or carbohydrate, so easy to digest type of things. When people think that they can't eat before a run, I always encourage them just to start small. So yeah, you don't have to eat two pieces of toast with peanut butter and banana.

if you're used to eating nothing, maybe you start with like half a slice of toast or quarter slice of toast, or maybe you start with like three pretzels or a few bites of a banana. Like you can train your stomach to get used to a little bit of food and fuel, and that will help you give you energy for your run. - Thank you, I think those are great tips and things that I wish I learned years ago instead of kind of trial by error.

So I think this is great value. So another really common misconception is that you have to be thinner to be faster. And that's just not really true. I mean, really, you need to be fueled to be faster. So many people chase this goal of being thinner, but what they end up doing is under fueling their body. And then when they're

not fueling appropriately, not only are they losing out on energy for their running, but that's impacting their recovery, their overall mood. You know, it could be affecting hormone levels, thyroid levels, stress, and affecting your bone density, even your lab work. So like your vitamin and mineral levels can definitely be affected if you're under fueling. And so, so many times when I see people wanting to be thinner so that they can be faster, they

they actually just end up slower because they're so under fueled. That's I think a really great reminder. I know that's been something that I've actually struggled with over the years of like, what is the right calorie content? Because you know, the diet culture that we live in drills and like lower calories, higher exercise, like that's going to help you lose weight. But what I really only learned more recently is like, well, one,

With runners, we burn a lot of calories while we're running. Like I recently started increasing my calories. I don't know why it took me so long to finally do this, but I started increasing my calories and all of a sudden I had more muscle tone. And that's because then my muscles can actually have something to feed off of instead of just retaining the fat to, you know, kind of keep my body in a status quo. And for me, I had to,

like stop looking at the scale and, you know, as a way of thinking, okay, well, if I'm losing weight, then I must be getting better or that's like the step in the right direction or that's what I should be doing. And it like was this whole mindset shift. Do you find that other runners that you've worked with struggle with the scale? Oh, for sure. I have runners that just can't, you know, have a scale in their house because of

current or past struggles. So if that's something that's, you know, a trigger for you, then I would say, you know, get rid of it. If it's causing you mental distress, then it's not worth it. There's so many other ways that you can measure success besides looking at a scale, right? Like it could be your mood. It could be like, maybe you had low vitamin D or ferritin levels, and now they're so much more improved. It might be your time, or maybe you just like

get done with a long run and you feel good instead of feeling like you need to sit on the couch for the rest of the day. You know, all of those things could be wins. Those are great benchmarks to focus on instead of the scale. That's something that I'm definitely working on. And I hope that there's other people out there that maybe need to hear this message too. And hopefully that will encourage them. For sure. It's really common and diet culture grows it into us. It's one of the things I'm trying to dispel is

Is there any other common misconceptions? Well, I'll touch on one more. So it's kind of the opposite of the other one. And that's sometimes I hear people say, well, I can eat anything or I can eat as much as I want.

So on one hand, this is completely true, right? Like no one says, no, you can't eat that. And I totally believe that you can make any food fit. But I also see some people get into this idea where, oh, well, I ran today so I can have two donuts and a beer and pizza and something else, you know, and then that's repeated day to day to day. And I just want to remind people that

You're allowed to eat foods that you enjoy, absolutely, but you can't outrun a lousy diet. Yeah, I love that reminder because I am guilty of wanting to enjoy treats. I have a massive sweet tooth, but I've also, that's something that I've tried to work on too is eating.

Yes, those foods are really, they taste good, but they aren't maybe the best quality food that you should be refueling your body with. I'm glad that you brought that up. Yeah. So you can have those foods, but I also encourage people like make sure that most of what you're eating is food that makes you feel good and fuels you as well. So it's important to have a balance. Yes. Thank you. I think those are great tips. Something I...

Also wanted to pick your brain about recently. I saw an article about why runners blow. And I have to be honest with you. This completely like blew my mind of like, oh my gosh, this is why I've been so bloated. I always used to wonder, like, I used to look like I was like six months pregnant after a run and then my stomach would go down, like by the next morning it would go away. But like, I never knew that this had anything to do with my running.

And I don't know why it took me so long to figure it out or why it took until like a Runner's World article came out to talk about this. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like just mind blowing. Can you share on why runners float and what we should do about it? Yeah. So, you know, everyone's a little bit different, but there's a couple of common triggers, right? Sometimes it's the foods that we're eating. So,

If we are eating something that's higher in fat or fiber or maybe something high in caffeine before we head out on the run, those types of foods are a little bit harder to digest. So that could potentially cause bloat. If you have any issues digesting lactose, like a lot of people are lactose intolerant,

or sometimes sugar alcohols, those artificial sweeteners. So if your diet has a lot of things with those in it, that could potentially cause bloating, alcohol as well. So if you're finding that's happening all the time, then it's probably a good idea to like take a look and say like, okay, so what potential triggers could it be? Am I eating something kind of greasy? Am I eating something kind of high in fiber? Does something just not really agree with me?

So sometimes it's that, but a lot of times too, it's dehydration. A lot of people don't know that when you're dehydrated, you're going to have a lot more GI distress when you're on the run. So I always encourage people to show up to their run already hydrated. You know, if you show up when you're dehydrated, not only are you going to get more dehydrated and you're going to feel pretty lousy, but you're just not going to be able to get going the way that

You want to, because even if we're in a slight level of dehydration, our performance is affected. It really doesn't take that much.

Thank you for that information. Those are really helpful. And my takeaway from that is to start to journal my foods more specifically and what my body reaction to, especially after runners, because at least for me, it makes me feel like really self-conscious and, and it just also makes me very uncomfortable too, um, to begin with, but. Right. It's not a fun feeling to have.

But I love this idea of food journaling and I do encourage people to do that sometimes and not necessarily from the classic diet culture, like calorie counting standpoint, but more just writing down what it is that you're eating if you are having stomach issues frequently.

to see if you can figure out some sort of common trigger. You might be able to notice trends if you write things down. It's easy to think like, oh, I'll remember this for next time. But I don't know about you, but like, I don't remember what I had for lunch like two or three days ago. So you can bet that I'm not going to remember what I had a week ago that triggered

triggered something last time. So having a journal for something like that can be really helpful. Yeah. And thank you for bringing up the reminder of, you know, not doing it. So you're so focused from a diet, like losing weight perspective, but just a reaction to your body perspective. Yeah. It's just more about awareness. One of our favorite topic of runners, a term that we love is runger or run hunger.

Yes, I love that one. Can you touch on why runners get wrungry and what we should do about it? Yeah. So, of course, one of the reasons that someone might get wrungry is because they are under fueling. So,

This happens, I just want to say, so frequently and so if it happens to you, don't feel ashamed about it. But some people do this on purpose. We've kind of talked about this already, but some people are under fueling and they're not even realizing it or they're doing it unintentionally.

You mentioned that running burns a lot of energy and that's so true. So we need more fuel than the average person. So as runners, we need to be making sure that we are eating regular meals. We're not skipping meals. We're not skipping snacks, especially if we're physically hungry.

So making sure that we're properly fueled and not under fueling is going to make a huge difference in runger levels for sure. But another thing too is a lot of people will skip out on fueling before a run or during a run or after a run. Sometimes because they don't feel hungry. Sometimes it's because, like I mentioned, they don't think that their stomach can handle it.

Sometimes it's because they're trying to like, quote unquote, save calories or something. But if you skip out on all those opportunities, then not only are you missing out on an opportunity to fuel your run and feel better, you're going to miss out on an opportunity to recover faster. And

Oftentimes, when I see people under fueling around their runs, especially like, well, really in any of those times, but especially afterwards, they do end up extra hungry later in the day. And then they are more likely to feel out of control and feel like they want to snack on anything. And they're so hungry that they might make choices that they wouldn't have made had they

they've been less hungry. You know, like when you're that hungry, it doesn't really matter what it is. You're just going to go to the cupboard and you're going to grab whatever's there. But if you weren't that hungry, like you could take the time to like plan ahead and be like, okay, like what do I really need right now? And take the time to like go grab it rather than, you know, eating chips out of the cupboard. Yeah. Which I've also done. Yeah.

Right. And no judgment. We've all been there. Yeah. Something that I feel like has helped me is meal planning. So that way the food is already prepared for me. And especially when I finish a run, since I run in the evening, sometimes depending on the length of the run, maybe I don't finish until say 8 PM. And so that way my food is already cooked for me and I can just warm it up. And so that at least helps me to, um,

kind of feel more in control instead of like just raiding the cupboard and eating everything and anything that's quick. But since the meal is already made for me, that's just as quick as reaching for a bag of chips. So that's at least what I found helpful.

I always like to tell people, like, make the smart choice the easy one. So that sounds like what you're doing is you made the smart choice the easy one. Like you said, it's just as easy to grab your meal as it is to grab chips. So when people tell me like, oh, I don't ever eat vegetables or, oh, I don't want to eat this. Part of the reason is because they don't have that stuff available and easy. So it is so much easier to just grab whatever. Yeah.

Yeah, I love that tip and that little saying. Little saying? Yeah. Little saying. And to make it easier on yourself is maybe prep it on a day, like on a weekend, you know, cut up the vegetables, make some meals, even if it's just dinner that week. I know...

A lot of people have commented to me with my meal prep. They're like, don't you get sick of eating the same thing all the time? And to me, my answer is always like, no, it's much more convenient to just have the food ready. I don't necessarily care about what I'm eating. I'm just caring that it's a healthier choice, you know, whole grains and vegetables and protein versus coming home after a long day of work, going for a run and then

staring at my refrigerator and be like, well, I don't know what to eat tonight. Like it's a hearty, I already made that decision three days ago what I was going to eat tonight. And so that's been helpful to me. And that may not work for everyone, but. Right.

I do encourage people to try it or at least like look at the week ahead and see where, you know, you might have an opportunity to do a little prep work or maybe you know that on Tuesday you're going to be booked from like 5 a.m. until 9 p.m. And so, yeah.

that might be a day that you plan ahead and be like, okay, I know that I'm going to have to, you know, get lunch out and I'm going to have 15 minutes for dinner. So I'm going to make sure I pack something and that I can keep in my car and I'll be near this place. And I know that they have this option that's healthier. So I'm going to plan on that. So just like look ahead at your schedule. So you're not like thrown off guard. Yeah. I love that tip. Thank you. Do you have any other

other running related dietician tips to wrap up before we get into some fun questions? Yeah, I just want to say like we talked a little bit about fueling before a run, but recovering afterwards is really important too. Getting that there's like an optimal time to really help your muscles recover. So if you eat something, it doesn't have to be a whole lot, but if you eat something with carbs and protein,

So you need both after a run. That's going to help you recover so much better. You're going to feel less sore. You're probably going to be less hungry later in the day. So ideally within 30 to 60 minutes, and we're looking at something with like

about four grams of carbohydrates per gram of protein. So more carbs than protein. A lot of people think, oh, well, you know, I just worked out. I need protein for my muscles. And that's true. But you also need the carbohydrates. And the reason for that is because you use carbohydrates as energy on the run and you store them in your muscles. And so when you come back from a run, they've been

depleted, right? So you need to get that energy back into your muscles. And if you don't do that, then the next run, you're going to start out already feeling lethargic. So, you know, taking the time to have a small snack, it doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to even be solid food, it could be something liquid, like a smoothie or chocolate milk, it's really going to make a huge difference in, you know, how you feel and how well you recover.

Thank you. Yeah, one of my go to, especially after long run is a egg burrito, or Greek yogurt with oatmeal mixed in are two of my recovery meals. Yeah, because they're pretty quick to make as well. But they also I feel like kind of give a good balance as well.

Yeah, it's always good to have a couple of go-to's. Yeah. Like, and then you're kind of excited, like, oh, when I get home, I can have my oatmeal. Right, yep. So a couple of fun questions that I like to ask all of my guests, with the first one being, what are you currently obsessed with or loving right now? Oh, I have two things. Okay. Um,

So I jumped on the sourdough bandwagon last spring when COVID first hit and I kept it up. And so I've been having a lot of fun making different sourdough breads and buns and pancakes and muffins and all kinds of fun things with my sourdough. So it might be kind of basic, but I don't care. It's tasty.

And there's something really satisfying about making your own food. It's just like, oh yeah, I made this. This is awesome. I would pay like $8 for this loaf of bread in a store, but I made it myself. It's really fun. And another thing, this is a little bit more serious, but I'm really just into like stuff about mindset recently and how adjusting your mindset can make such a big difference in how you feel and

how you live your life. So I have a lot to learn about it still. But it's a work in progress, just like anything. So yeah, I just think it's fascinating the way you can like if you can change your thoughts and beliefs and perspective, you can just have a totally different outlook and experience of life.

Two things I'd like to add to that. One, I've also been working on my mindset, especially when it comes to sports performance. And I read a book recently called Mind Gym. I definitely recommend that book for sports psychology. Plus one of my earlier guests on this show was Dr. Megan Cannon, and she's a sports psychologist. And my most recent guest was a mindset coach, Nicole Romandi. So that's

I recommend you check out those episodes as well. Okay. I haven't listened to that one yet. Awesome. So you mentioned that you run half marathons and marathons. Are you currently working toward a goal race or do you have any other intention that you're currently working on? Well, I just finished grandma's marathon a couple of weeks ago and I did really well. Actually. I, um,

I got a PR. I got a Boston qualifying time by quite a bit actually, so that's feeling really good and I thought

about another marathon but honestly I don't think I'm gonna do another one now until Boston which would ideally be in April 2022 so for running race actually maybe I'm hoping to be able to do the Twin Cities 10 mile in October it is a lottery so we'll have to see if I get in

Well congratulations on your Boston qualifying. Is that your first time getting a BQ? No actually, let's see I ran Grandma's in 2018 and that was the first time. So I ran Boston in 2019 and then I was supposed to run it in 2020 but we all know what happened

Yes, yes. Did you still do it virtually? I did and I will never do another virtual marathon. It's very tough. I ran a virtual marathon. It's just something about the crowd, you know, that really just makes a big difference.

Yeah, definitely. So my last question is what does chasing life mean to you? So I thought about this and one thing I've been working on, especially with this mindset work is that life is not a desk. There's no destination. It really is a journey. So our running is a journey. Our work is a journey, our relationships with other people, but even our relationships with ourself

is such a journey. And to really embrace the journey and be okay with it and yourself when it doesn't go exactly as planned. And just knowing that, you know, some days are going to be good and some days are going to be bad and some days are going to be just days. And that's completely acceptable and normal and okay. I think I used to have this

hope or dream that like I would achieve something and then everything would be perfect and hunky dory and, you know, I'd never have to worry again. And that probably sounds silly, but I think, I hope a lot of people can relate at least on a deeper level. Like even if they don't think that outright, maybe they can kind of relate to that. And I'm really just trying to embrace this idea of embracing the journey, the whole, the whole of it, the ups, the downs, the winds,

All of it. Yeah, I love that. I definitely think that. It's relatable, uh, you know, the culture that we live in, they set these milestones that we're supposed to reach and, you know, that supposedly brings happiness, but really.

I think you're right. The reminder needs to be there that the happiness lies within us. And if we're not happy with who we are, where we are, we're not going to be happy when we get the new job, the new house, the new whatever, you know, the new race PR, like the BQ or the 10 pounds down, whatever, like that, that isn't going to make you happy at the end of the day. Right. Yeah, definitely. And especially with runners too, right?

I mean, we train for months for a race that lasts for a 5k less than a half an hour or a half marathon, you know, less than a couple hours. Marathon is a couple more hours than that. And, you know, that's over in such a short amount of time for all the lead up that we have to it. And sure, you might get a PR, you know, you hope for a PR on race day, but really it's the

What I try to remind myself on race day is that's a celebration of you getting through all that training.

And that's what race day should be. And so it goes right along with what you said, that it's the journey that you're on to get there. So I love that answer. Thanks. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Jackie. Where can people connect with you? And do you offer any consultations or to...

Are you accepting any new clients? I would love to work with people. So you can find me on my website. That is www.jackiekirchnernutrition.com. I have a blog there with tons of run tips. And then there's a contact form as well and a link to book a free consultation call with me. You can also visit me at

on Instagram. My handle is at fuelbetter.runfaster. You can send me a message. I love interacting with people even just to say hi. I'd love you to say hi and introduce yourself and let me know what you thought of the episode. And yeah, if you are interested in working with me, like I said, I am working with runners.

And endurance athletes, you don't even have to consider yourself. You don't have to be a serious runner. You know, it's not like I only work with people that are super elite or anything. I work with everyday people just to help them feel better and feel better, improve their fitness and enjoy the run. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time and all of your tips and I hope everyone found them as valuable as I did. Yeah, I'm so happy to be here and glad I could share.

Thank you for listening to my episode with Jackie Kirchner. If you enjoyed that episode and want to hear more nutrition tips, be sure to check out episode 29, which is another interview with a nutritionist, Erin Sparrow. It's been a year since I published my first podcast episode. And I have to tell you that I've learned a lot since then. I went from recording a two minute segment that took me over an hour because I didn't know how to edit anything. And I ended up going down a path of incorporating interviews and writing

Just connecting with some awesome guests over the last year. So if you've been a guest on my show, thank you so much for expanding this in a way that I never imagined. Actually, the intention of this podcast was for me to share information that I found helpful, whether it's running, career, life, or fitness tips.

I wanted to just share it with other like-minded people. I feel like I got a little bit away from that, but all the feedback from everyone has been that you have loved the interview. So I'm going to keep that format, but what I'm going to try to do a little more often is incorporating five to ten minute tips of an article, a quote, or whatever it was that connected with me that week, and maybe it will connect with you too. For my first tip, it was very timely that my

Believe Training Journal section landed on nutrition as I was interviewing Jackie. So I wanted to share some of the tips that the co-author Lauren Fleshman shares about nutrition and what she learned as a professional athlete. So these are her words.

Establishing good habits around what and when you eat can shape your body into a performance machine. It sounds simple, but in practice, nutrition is a socially and emotionally loaded subject that carries pretty big consequences if you get it wrong. For an athlete, the best approach is to become informed about healthy eating and healthy ways to gain or lose weight without allowing nutrition to control your life or surpass your focus on performance. If you can become an ace at nutrition, you will reap the benefits.

such as one, you'll feel better all over. Food is fuel and filling your tank with premium will help you get the most out of your body without bonking, getting stomach aches or feeling fatigued.

Two, you'll recover faster. For elites, speed of recovery is crucial to being able to handle a world-class training load. Three, shape your body for better performance. Learn how to lose or gain weight without a lot of drama or stress. These are Lauren's top nutrition tips. One, eat 200 calories within 15 to 30 minutes of exercise. These are Lauren's top nutrition tips.

Eat 200 calories within 15 to 30 minutes of exercise. Lauren says that this rule has been the single best influence on her performance and physique. There's plenty of science to show that during that post-exercise window, a balanced snack is absorbed right into the glycogen stores, not your fat stores, and helps your muscles recover. It also takes the edge off your hunger so that you are able to make healthier choices at your next meal. If you can only do one thing, do this.

Two, eat foods as close to the source as possible. The fewer steps of processing a food goes through, the better.

3. Workouts are not the time to skimp on calories or carbohydrates. Inadequate fueling right before, during, or immediately after your exercise slows your metabolism and makes you more likely to hoard calories when you do eat them. Those extreme hunger fluctuations have negative effects on hormonal health. If you can find yourself binge eating late at night, it's a clear sign you need to eat more fuel and surrounding exercise. 4.

Don't overthink meals. When it's mealtime, a good general guide is to have one quarter of your plate covered with quality protein, one quarter with a minimally processed whole grain carbohydrate source, and one half with a veggie and or fruit. Five, calorie counting is no way to live. Reading nutrition labels can help you get a handle on assembling balanced meals and setting appropriate portion sizes, but once you figure out some general guidelines for yourself, set yourself free from the numbers.

Six, you don't have to be perfect. A consistent B-plus diet gives you great results and leaves room for life. Sugar and fat cravings are part of our biology. Even the fastest, fittest runners in the world enjoy treats. You should see how many spoonfuls of sugar the world champion Kenyans put in their tea. Here are some warning signs you might need to adjust your nutrition path.

1. Your social life is negatively impacted by your diet. 2. You develop habits you feel you need to hide in public. If you wouldn't do it in front of other people, you probably shouldn't be doing it. 3. Your day is ruined if the number on the scale isn't what you want or if you stray from your meal plan. 4. You care more about looking fit than competing well. 5. You become a food pusher, making or buying sweets you won't eat and then pushing them on others. 6.

and six, you skip several periods in a row. I hope you found these tips helpful. I'm going to try to share more articles or tips that I find, especially if they connect with the guests that I'm interviewing. You know, it's just a way to share more information with all of you and add value to this podcast. So if you enjoyed this tip, I'd love to hear from you. You can follow me at Sarah Chasing Life on Instagram or at Chasing Life Podcast. Until next time.