Holy Toledo - 10 February 2025
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I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. We're always excited when somebody teaches us a new word, and I just learned a new one from Alex Riggle. He wrote to introduce us to the word anapodoton.

Annapotaton. Let me see if I can break that down. It sounds Greek. Anna means it's a negative, means not, right? Pod probably has something to do with base or foot. Annaton, not sure. What are we talking about here, Martha? Well, we're not talking about pajamas without feet in them.

Now, anapodoton, and maybe I should spell that, A-N-A-P-O-D-O-T-O-N, is a term of rhetoric. And it comes from a Greek word that actually means without a main clause. And it refers to the first half of a proverb or a saying where you don't bother to give the second half because you figure the listener already knows it.

For example, if I were to say birds of a feather. Ah, that's the one I was thinking of, birds of a feather. And then in my mind, I finish and go flock together. Exactly. That's a perfect example. Or say, if I said when in Rome. Ah, yes. Do as the Romans do. Neither one of us has to say it because we're both thinking it. Great minds think alike. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Exactly. But I was just delighted to learn this word. And who else does this? Surely it's not only in English. Yeah, it's not just English. You'll find these in other languages as well. For example, Japanese and Chinese. Well, Martha and I love it. We really do when you share your word finds with us. You can send them an email to words at waywardrigor.org or tell us all about your find in voicemail at 877-929-9673.

Hey there, you have a way with words. Hi, my name is Dallas Hyde. I'm calling from just outside of Atlanta, Georgia. We're glad to have you, Dallas. What's up? I'm calling you guys about this expression that my brother-in-law...

uses, and then subsequently my wife has picked up from him. And it's always kind of like gotten under my skin a little bit because it just seems so silly. And the expression is holy Toledo. Holy Toledo. And in what context would he use this? I think he would use it to avoid using

you know, a curse word, um, like holy cow or holy moly, you know, kind of, kind of like that. Right. What grates on you about it? Oh, it just always seems so silly. It never made any sense to me. So, you know, you know, maybe it won't seem so silly to me if I, if I actually understood the meaning, you know, I always thought like Toledo kind of sounded like arbitrary. Uh,

You're wondering why it wasn't Holy Valdosta or Holy Waycross. Because you're thinking of Toledo, Ohio.

Yeah, yeah. That's what I assume it is, Toledo, Ohio. What if I told you it was Toledo, Spain? Toledo, Spain. Really? Yeah. And there's a reason for it. Toledo, Spain, since 1085, the year 1085, has been well known as a religious center for both Islam and Christianity. Wow.

It is filled with mosques and churches and places of worship and places of pilgrimage and beautiful buildings. And even today, it is kind of this magical place of religious coexistence. And that's not to say it hasn't had its long periods of strife and religious conflict. But there are just this amazing history of art and sword making and metal work and history

El Greco has done paintings of its skyline, and Cervantes referred to Toledo as "Oh Holy City" and Don Quixote. And it's just kind of got this reputation as a place, a spiritual place. And so besides all of this, Holy Toledo has got kind of an assonance, you know, it kind of nearly rhymes. And so it just kind of sounds nice in the mouth.

Oh, I mean, that is, I never expected such a profound answer. Yeah, it's been around, I don't know how long. I think I found it back at least 100 years, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's older than that.

In Spanish, we say Toledo in English, but Toledo is more like the real Spanish Toledo. Holy Toledo. How about that? Holy mackerel. Wow. Holy mackerel. Holy cow. So you think you'll pick it up now?

Maybe I will use it. I just always thought it sounded so silly. Why aren't we replacing all the other holy expressions that we have with Toledo? Well, thanks, guys. Yeah, sure. It looks like you've got a vacation in your future going to Toledo, Spain. I would love to, yeah. All right. Take care of yourself now. All right. Thanks, guys. Bye-bye. Thanks, Dallas.

If there's a word or phrase you keep tripping over or puzzling about, it may be that there's a great story behind it like the one Grant just shared. Find out by giving us a call, 877-929-9673. Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Debbie calling from Keokuk, Iowa. Hello, Keokuk, Iowa. Welcome to the show. Thank you. What's on your mind? Hi. Actually, I don't have a question. I wanted to share something really fun I think that you will find delightful from my family's

words. My mom, when I was a kid, I'm the fifth of seven kids. And so, you know, there could be a lot of clutter. And sometimes somebody would be coming over without a lot of warning. And my mom would say, quick guys, why did sepulcher approach? And we knew that that meant throw everything in the closet and vacuum. And then it looks clean. And I never really thought about

what it meant until I was a teenager. And I said, Mom, why do you say whited sepulcher approach? And she said, it's in the Bible. Go look it up. And so I went and I looked up whited sepulcher. And I found in Matthew 23, when Jesus is talking to the scribes and the Pharisees, and he's calling them hypocrites. And he says, you're like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones and of all uncleanness. And

And I realized that when we threw everything in the closet and vacuumed, we were being like whited sepulchers. And my mom thought it was funny and, you know, would say that, but without even explaining it to us, it was just like her little private joke. Well, so,

Then, you know, fast forward, I have five children and there tends to be a lot of clutter at our house. And I have carried on that little tradition of saying, why did sepulcher approach? And I had told my kids, this is why, you know, and it makes me laugh because we're a little hypocritical when we're pretending the house is clean when it isn't. But then this is the part that I think will really delight you. A few months ago,

One of my kids was looking for something and I heard them say to somebody, do you know where this is? And one of them said, go look in the whited sepulcher, which is what they were calling the bins in the basement of stuff that still hadn't been put away from the last time we had used the whited stuff. And so it's like a whole continuation. Like it, it became another thing just in our family. And I think it's really fun. Debbie.

Debbie, are you sitting down? I am. I am. Martha's going to blow your mind. Oh, I'm ready. Well, Debbie already blew our minds. I mean, that is fantastic. Martha, first spell this for us so everyone knows what we're talking about. Okay. Whited. Like the color white with a D. Whited. Something that's been made white. And then sepulcher. Right.

S-E-P-U-L-C-H-R-E, or you can spell it E-R. It's spelled both ways. And what is a sepulcher, by the way? It's where they would put the bodies. Yes. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Exactly. It's a whitewashed tomb. You're absolutely right. And I just

I love her application of this biblical image for what you're talking about. That's fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah, in antiquity and, you know, in the time of Jesus, this was a practice where people would whitewash tombs, usually with something like lime, to make them stand out so that, you know, you knew what it was. You knew it was a tomb because you didn't want to disturb or defile its contents.

And also, you didn't want to touch it accidentally because that would sort of defile you, too. You would be unclean, right. Ritually unclean. So as you said, Debbie, it's these tombs that appear beautiful outward but are within full of dead men's bones and of all uncleanness. It's not too pretty. Which pretty much describes my closet and my basement.

Mine too, I have to say. I think that is a fantastic application of that expression. But the larger point is that using whited sepulcher as an expression to refer to a person or situation that appears virtuous on the outside but on the inside is actually not, is evil or is messed up, goes beyond your mother. Right.

It's widespread. Oh, yeah. And it's got centuries of usage behind it. Well, and she was... But what I love is she was knowingly... Like, she knew exactly where she had gotten it. Yeah, yeah. And she just thought it was fun. And I love that my kid...

carried it forward a bit and I was like, oh yeah. Yeah, that's a great, that's a natural extension of usage, sure. Yes, this is my new favorite expression for this. We've talked before on the show about some people call it making a lasagna, you know, where you just put a bunch of unrelated things in layers or mummification. Oh, absolutely, yeah.

Scoop and shove, one listener called it. Yeah. Or the white tornado. But I think this takes the cake. This is brilliant. I'm going to borrow this if you don't mind. I will carry it on myself, Debbie. Thank you. Well, I think that's the greatest thing ever. And it's kind of full circle because my parents grew up in Southern California. And you guys are in San Diego, right? They grew up in San Bernardino. Yes. I grew up in Boston, so she was saying that to us 3,000 miles away. And now I'm in Iowa telling you in Southern California, and you brought it back. Yeah.

You and a whole bunch of other people. This is fantastic. Thank you so much, Debbie. Take care of yourself, Debbie. Thank you. Bye-bye. All right. Bye-bye. All right. We're ready for you to come over and talk with us, so call us, 877-929-9673. Thank you.

In an earlier episode, we talked about the way that dog rescue groups give different litters of puppies names so they can keep track of them all. And I was looking on a website where there was a litter of puppies and they had the names Saucer, Slingshot, Ramp, Kicker, and Flipper. Do you know which group of pups that was? Is this skateboarding terms? No.

Oh, no, but it's an activity. It's a kind of game that you might see in an arcade. Oh, pinball. Yeah, the mom's name was Pinball. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, the mom's name was Pinball and all of her little puppies were named Pinball. Oh, yeah, because when they get out of that sleepy stage and they start knocking around, they're completely like pinballs, aren't they? Right.

ping their way right into your heart. Absolutely. Well, when you're not browsing puppy websites, you can give us a call with your language questions, 877-929-9673. And heck, your questions can be about languages and puppies.

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You're listening to A Way With Words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Martha Barnett. And I'm Grant Barrett. And wearing a kilt, playing bagpipes, and smelling lovely of the highlands, it's our quiz guy, John Chinesky. Hi, John. Hi, Grant. Hi, Martha. Can you smell the heather? Yeah, I can. Lovely smell of the heather. And your bagpipe music has really improved. Hooray!

Ah, yeah. I got to practice. I know I have to practice, though. You know, I'm at that age where the doctor is telling me I must make some changes. And not just the kilt. Most importantly, I have to change my diet. Now, I don't mind too much, but why does she make me change the way I talk about food? For example, she insisted that I say, that actor was chewing the scenery. He's a real hummus.

Really? Seriously? I can't call him a ham? I got to go hummus? Well, I know. I guess I should get used to it. We all should. Here are some foods that have taken over my vocabulary, slightly healthier foods. Let's see if you can figure out what they used to be. Okay? Okay. All right. Here we go. You know, I don't get along with my neighbor. I have a real tofu with that guy. I have a real beef with that guy. Yes. Oh, oh. Cut the beef out. Real tofu. Okay.

I used to be a lot healthier, but that was back in my kale days. My salad days, but as long as you eat the cheese and the dressing off salad, it's okay. Yeah, I can't do the full, I got to go back to the crispy kale. She may be strict, but my doctor is one smart fig bar. Yeah.

Cookie. Cookie. She's a smart cookie. I can't even do cookies. I have fig bars. Don't get me wrong. They taste fine, but still. Once I got used to it, substituting healthy foods turned out to be a real piece of cauliflower. A real piece of cake. Piece of cake. Oh, nice red velvet, perhaps. No, cauliflower it is. Red velvet cauliflower. Red velvet cauliflower. I love it.

Welcome aboard my boat. Listen, when that boom swings around, be sure to... Tafurki. Duck. Duck, yeah. Be sure to duck. Duck, nice crispy... Tafurki. Tafurki. Tafurki, everyone. Everyone, tafurki. Oh, look, the IRS is on my tail. I need a place to lay low. Can you help me out of this chia seed paste? Oh, my goodness. Out of this jam? Out of this jam?

Jam. Oh, I was going to say this is pickle. Oh, pickle. Yeah, sure. We'll do pickle. A lot of good alternate answers in this quiz. Very good. Finally, I heard he got nabbed by the IRS. How did it happen? Come on. Spill the water. Spill the beans.

Beans are actually quite healthy, but no, I'm looking for a little more slangy term for this guy. Spill the tea. Spill the tea, yeah. Tea's kind of healthy, too, if you don't put sugar in there. It depends, yeah. What kind of tea are you drinking? How much sugar do you put in there? All right, those are my menu substitutions for the day. Back to your parade, John. They're waiting for the bagpipes. That's me.

All right. Take care of yourself. Give her best to the family, John. You too. I'll talk to you next time. Bye, John. That quiz was delicious and nutritious. And if you'd like to chew the fat with us, give us a call, 877-929-9673. Or find lots of ways to contact us on our website, words at waywardradio.org slash contact.

Welcome to A Way With Words. Hi, Martha. This is Marcia Berenson calling from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hey, Marcia. Welcome to the show. What can we do for you today? I recently heard a phrase that my mom had used frequently. The phrase she'd use was when she was aggravated. Not real angry, but more annoyed. So the phrase was...

And she'd say it this way. Well, I was fit to be tied. She would use that if she was frustrated. So, for example, I...

If she wanted to buy a specific item at a store close to her home and they said, oh, no, but our such and such store five miles away has it in stock. And then mom would drive five miles away. And lo and behold, that item wouldn't be there.

And she'd be annoyed, frustrated, and she'd say, and I was fit to be tied. And so you're wondering what in the heck she meant. Well, you know what she meant, but why did she use that particular phrase? Right, and where it came from. And I thought, you guys are the experts. I'm not going to try to speculate or go on the Internet and look it up. We can break this down to its component parts. Fit, of course, means...

for or ready. So if you are fit, it means that you are in a position for something. So if I am fit for an occasion, it means I am ready for that occasion or I'm suited for it. So we might say...

other expressions that are very similar to this: "I'm fit to burst." "He was fit to burst because he was ready to speak but they wouldn't let him." Or "fit to drop," meaning "I'm exhausted." And then the "tied" part is what needs the most expression here. It literally refers to being tied up and the idea is that you need to be restrained.

You have to be held back, that you're so angry that people have to grab your arms and hold you back because you might be swinging fists, you know? I can see it, Grant. I can see it. Flailing at somebody or flailing at the frustration. Is that an old expression? It sure is. It dates back to the...

at least 200 years old. Yeah, yeah. And it appears in, James Joyce used it, Dorothy Parker used it. And there's a lovely Australian synonym, which I think is even more concise. They say that someone is ropeable. Ha ha ha! Ha ha ha!

Oh, my. Oh, I like that. Well, that's just fascinating. It's interesting that it's over 200 years old, and I wonder where mom got a hold of it. She was always an avid reader. It's very colloquial at this point. I wouldn't even call it slang. I would just say it's idiomatic in English. That's how widespread it is in pretty much every dialect of English in all continents where it's spoken. Great. I'm so pleased that

That you found it an interesting phrase and that you took the time to look into it. Oh, our pleasure. As always, Marcia, thank you for taking some time out of your day and speaking to us. Well, it was my pleasure. I'm excited. Thank you so much. Call us again sometime, all right? I will. Thank you so much. You take care. 877-929-9673.

On our Facebook group, Ann Durham wrote, I have a cold today and I remembered my mother's phrase of feeling like death on a soda cracker. Do you all have any other cute sayings to help me get through this? And people stepped up with a bunch of sayings about how bad you feel when you have a bad cold. Greg Johnson talked about saying that you feel lower than a snake in a wagon rut, which I really like.

And, of course, there's the phrase, I've been rode hard and put up wet, which we've talked about on the show before. But I really like the one from Richard Drexel Phelps, who wrote, I'm going to hell on a scholarship. Apparently, that's a thing. I didn't know that. I've never heard that one, but that's a very good one. I feel like I'm going to hell on a scholarship. She's getting right in there. I think that scholarship has unlimited funds. Yeah.

Our email address is words at waywardradio.org, and you can talk to us through our website at waywardradio.org. Hi there. You have a way with words. Oh, hi, Marza. Hi. Who's this? This is Chris Milne from Kittery, Maine. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. Thank you, Grant. I was listening to some media recently and came across the expression no siree bob.

And remembered hearing that as a child and using it and assuming everybody used it. And just got to wondering about that expression, how it came about and how common it is. Okay. Yeah. And you took that as what? When you heard no survey, Bob, you took it as... It is a hard no. Hard no. As an impolite hard no or humorous hard no? Yeah, not impolite. Definitely...

Kind of a way to lighten the hard no, perhaps. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Absolutely. I think you're trying to avoid being offensive. It's an emphatic way to do it as well. So you want them to understand that you mean it, but you're trying not to offend. And you can, of course, yes, sirree, Bob, is the same. Oh, absolutely. It might be older than you think. What year would you put on that if you had to put one on it?

Oh, okay. I think I've just blown my chances of catching you out. It sounds like, it sounds Looney Tunes, but I mean, surely it's older than that. Yeah, it's older. Go 100 years older than that. Okay. Early 1900s. 1840s.

Holy smokes. Yeah, yeah. 1840s. No, sirree Bob pops up first, and then yes, sirree Bob is almost immediately used. And you'll find that Bob is probably the more interesting part of it. Yes, sirree really is kind of obvious. The sirree is really just an emphatic sir. And you will find sirree on its own without yes or no in front of it. It's just very, very emphatic. Sirree, sirree.

in the same way. But the Bob probably is a euphemism for God. In older slang in the UK and the US, prior to the 1840s, as far back as I think the 18-teens, you could hear people say things like, so help me Bob. And that Bob, by the way, is sometimes capitalized and sometimes not. So it's not

It's not necessarily a reference to a specific Robert or a specific person. Interesting. But anyway, so to put it all together, what we're doing here is it's an emphatic sir. It's a way to euphemize God. It's a way to be very emphatic and avoid offense. And that Bob, while at the same time it's emphatic by...

invoking the name of God avoids offending people by not actually using the name of God. Ah, there it is. We've changed God to Bob. Yeah. So it's like saying by God without saying by God. Very good. That makes a lot of sense. And in my...

In my defense, I watched Looney Tunes when I was a kid and not in the 60s. It's funny how influential Looney Tunes is on a generation after generation. Very good. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, our pleasure. Thanks for calling, Chris. Take care. Of course.

What's the word or phrase that you've been puzzling over? Tell us about it. Words at waywardradio.org. Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Tori, and I'm calling from Madison, Alabama. Hi, Tori. Welcome to the program. You've been, in a way, very supportive of me because when I had finished Night Shift—

I'd listen to you guys and it would keep me awake on my ride home. Oh, that's so nice. What kind of work do you do? At the time I worked in the hospital, uh,

But now I do psychiatric home health. Okay. Well, we're glad to be some small part of that. And thank you for doing the hard work. We really appreciate it. What can we do for you today, Tori? So I had a question. And I've heard the term and then randomly thought, hey, where did it come from? So the term is nuthouse. And I was just thinking, you know, it's usually...

described for a mental health facility, but it's not like restoring almonds in a house. So to refer to like a psychiatric unit or a psychiatric hospital, they call it a nut house? Right. And do you have a sense of it being negative or pejorative? When I've heard it used, it was in a negative context.

Yeah, we see the term nut house for a psychiatric facility going back to the turn of the 20th century or so. But to really understand this term and its use, we have to look at the word nuts and nutty. In the early 17th century, the word nuts meant something that was actually really positive. It was something that was a source of delight or a satisfying source of pleasure.

So, you know, nuts was something very, very positive. And then it underwent this really interesting semantic progression because by the 18th century, nuts appeared in phrases like to be nuts on someone, which meant to be infatuated with somebody or really, really fond of them. And if you had a high opinion of yourself, you might be described as being nuts upon yourself.

And then over time, nuts extended as an adjective to mean somebody who's really, really, really enthusiastic, really, really fond of something and just kind of emotionally extreme, like weirdly obsessed, just super, super intense.

And so that's when nuts became associated with the idea of being unstable and the same with nutty. And then there's another thread involving nuts, which is the fact that at the same time we

We talk about the word nut applying to the head. You know, it's hard and round like a nut. And people tell you to use your nut, meaning to think for yourself. And all of that kind of blended to the point where we get the term nut house, which now, you know, you probably wouldn't use in polite company. I will tell you that

When I dropped out of college for a couple of years, I worked in a psychiatric facility. And, you know, the language that you use there, you have to use a lot of morbid humor, right? And maybe terms that you wouldn't use elsewhere out in the world. I'm sure you can identify, you know, and people who work in those kinds of fields.

Okay. So I guess the term came from maybe somebody who was grandiose.

No, it's really somebody who's just too, too, just overly enthusiastic, just emotionally extreme and weirdly obsessed. And then that led to the idea of somebody being nutty just a little too much. Do we know why, Martha, in the beginning that nut came into it, though? Why somebody could be off their nut or why nut was the word they chose in the first place?

Well, it is weird, isn't it? Because it was such a positive term to begin with. But why was it even positive? Why being nuts was a positive term meaning, you know, enthusiastic for? Well, originally, I think it had to do with just nuts being satisfying and delicious, right? Oh, okay. Very good. Yeah. Well, Tori, thank you so much for your question today. We really appreciate it. And again, thank you for the hard work. And by that, I mean everything that you do to help other people get their lives together. Okay.

Well, thanks. And thanks for keeping me awake on my drive home. Our pleasure. Anytime. Call again sometime. All right. All right. All right. Bye bye. Take care. Bye.

Where are you in the world, and what is the language that you speak to make sense of that world? Share it with us, 877-929-9673. That's a toll-free number, 24 hours a day, in the United States and Canada. If you're somewhere else in the world, we've got a lot of ways to talk to us. You can find them all on our website at waywardradio.org. ♪

Methylphenidate is a stimulant that's used to treat ADHD and narcolepsy, and it was first synthesized in the 1940s by an Italian chemist named Leandro Panizzone.

And like many researchers of his era, he first tried the drug on himself. But he didn't notice much of an effect, so he offered some to his wife Marguerite, or Rita for short. And she tried some of this drug before playing a game of tennis, and sure enough, Rita, who had low blood pressure, found herself running faster and swinging harder and hitting the ball with better focus. And because she was so pleased with this drug's effect...

her husband named the drug in her honor, which is why today methylphenidate is more commonly called Ritalin. How about that? How about that? After Rita. It's not called Margarita. No. Well, that's a different drug, different effect. Oh, that's very interesting. Yeah. Waywardradio.org is our website where you can hear all of our past episodes.

Does your family talk funny? Share your stories as A Way With Words continues. Business taxes. We're stressing about all the time and all the money you spent on your taxes. This is my bill?

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You're listening to A Way With Words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. One of the great strengths of poetry is that it can make even a mundane act astonishingly beautiful. And I have a wonderful example of this from a long poem by Irish writer Seamus Heaney. It's called Churning Day, and it's a description of trinity.

of churning butter. And Grant, I wanted to share a couple of passages from it. Oh, yes, please. Early on in the poem, he writes about how the milk is taken from the cow and then put in pots to ferment. Now, this is an everyday task, but he makes it incredibly sensuous. He writes, after the hot brewery of gland, cud, and udder, cool, porous earthenware fermented the buttermilk for churning day.

And then later in the poem, he describes the process of churning itself. He writes, My mother took first turn, set up rhythms that slugged and thumped for hours. Arms ached, hands blistered, cheeks and clothes were spattered with flabby milk, where finally gold flecks began to dance. They poured hot water then, sterilized a birchwood bowl and little corrugated butter spades. The

Their short stroke quickened. Suddenly a yellow curd was weighting the churned-up white, heavy and rich, coagulated sunlight that they fished, dripping in a wide tin strainer heaped up like gilded gravel in the bowl.

Ingrid, that's just a taste of it. Goodness. There's so much beautiful alliteration in there. Phrases like coagulated sunlight. But also the idea that he's demonstrating with this act of churning butter that all of the acts of the farm, which produce our food, are beautiful.

Everything that appears on our dinner table, those of us who aren't on farms, has this labor behind it, right? Everything that puts the bacon on the table and the potatoes on the table is a beautiful act.

Yeah, it's beautiful and it has dignity. Yeah, it has dignity. But all of it can be described with this kind of beautiful poetry. I also like suddenly. The word suddenly. You know, there's a curd suddenly appearing. Yes, yes. Because it seems like an interminable act to churn the butter. But there are sudden things that happen.

Right, right. And you can feel that rhythm in the poem. I just, you know, I've never churned butter myself, but I feel it. Oh, I have. Yeah. What? We lived on a farm in San Francisco.

Southeast Missouri, we had a beautiful cow named Daisy and she got into the wild garlic. So for a time we had garlic flavored milk and garlic flavored butter. Daisy. Daisy. I mean, you don't throw it out. You just use it. But I got to tell you that garlic flavored butter on cornbread is nothing to be spurned. It is very good. Oh, that sounds great. It was very good.

Well, I recommend reading the whole poem. It's called Churning Day, and it's by the Irish writer Seamus Heaney. Seamus Heaney. We'll link to that from our website. Martha and I love it when you send us passages from your favorite books and poems. You can send them to us in email, words at waywardradio.org, or make our day by recording it on our voicemail at 877-929-9673. Put your beautiful voice in.

into the phone, toll-free in the United States and Canada. Or you can reach us a dozen other ways, such as Blue Sky, Mastodon, and Threads. You can find those handles on our website at waywardradio.org, where there's also a contact form and some other ways to reach us.

Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, I'm JP and I'm from Temecula and I was wondering about the origin of the word with W-I-T-H. What got you thinking about that? Well, I'm learning a bit of French and Spanish and Spanish uses the word con for with and

And we also use that in some of our words to, like, mean with, but I was wondering...

if we use it as like a root word, why we don't just use con instead of with. In English. Yeah, that's a good question. And then French has a vec, which is also a different, whole different origin too. So we've got these three languages, English, Spanish, and French, and they all have these different etymological stories for their words that mean with.

So let's talk about Spanish first. That cone is really interesting. Absolutely, you're right. There are a lot of words in English that have that cone. Sometimes in English it shows up as C-O-N, and sometimes it shows up as C-O-M. And Martha probably has a ton of

these words at her disposal because she's got this, this Latin expertise, like Congress means over there, right? We get together that C O N or compress C O M gets compressed, pressed together.

So that's what's happening in Spanish and Portuguese and Italian. They all have that. And they all come from that Latin word, C-U-M, cum. And we do use that C-U-M in very formal kind of stilted construction English. We might say something like...

Oh, it's hard to come up with an example. But we might use it actually literally as a Latin word in English to mean with. Right. If you graduate cum laude, you're graduating with praise. Yeah, exactly. Perfect.

And then we've got the French and the avec in that also comes from Latin, but completely different origin. It comes from two different words, which means nearby that, a pulled hook. Yeah. And they've been just kind of like been condensed and contracted together over this. Contracted. Yes. Over the years to turn into a vec. Now let's talk about the English with.

Well, there's several interesting things about this. One is that its meaning has kind of changed over the centuries. It used to more or less mean against, as in in opposition to. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's got this complex history. You can still find that old meaning of in opposition to in the word withstand, which more or less means to stand against. Right.

English used to have the common proposition mid, M-I-D, which is a little different than other mids, which had many of the meanings of our modern with. But with took them over. And you can still hear those old meanings of mid in modern words like midwife.

Meaning with woman, a midwife is somebody who is with a woman when she has a baby or in the word midst, meaning among or enclosed or surrounded. But again, our with, W-I-T-H, took over those mid meetings.

Yeah. And with is weird, isn't it? Because if you're playing a video game and you're fighting with somebody, are you fighting alongside your teammates or are you fighting against somebody? Yeah, exactly. So all of these stories, and those are the short versions. So your curiosity has rewarded you with these crazy tales. Thank you. Well,

Well, JP, you are definitely a member of the word club of the air. You're clearly one of us. Thank you. Con mucho gusto. Au revoir. Yeah, thanks for talking with us. Bye-bye, JP. Bye-bye. Bye. Talk with us about language, 877-929-9673.

I was flipping through the dictionary of Smoky Mountain English the other day, and I came across an interesting expression. It means to ignore better choices, especially of a mate, before picking a poor one. And it goes, fly all over a daisy field and settle on a cow pile.

So this is when you pass by the good suitors and settle for the lazy bones. Yeah, you go for the bad boy or something. Or you can flint like a butterfly from flower to flower and land on a cow crap. There are lots of different versions. Oh, goodness. I'm saying the nice ones.

877-929-9673. Hello, you have a way with words. Hi, this is Sylvia. I'm calling from Bismarck, North Dakota. Hello, Sylvia. Welcome to the show. Yeah, so my family says a phrase. I always think about it when we make ice cream at my grandma's house.

Because she is convinced that it tastes better if you crank it by hand. She's right. She does. She's right. Of course. Grandma's always right, first of all. But so we crank it by hand, which obviously takes a long time. And so everyone has to take turns cranking it. And so if you've been cranking it for a while, someone else will come up and say, do you want me to spell you off or spell you?

And that means that they want, they'll give you a break and take a turn cranking the ice cream. And we use it for other things too. And I thought this was something everyone said until maybe when I went to college and I realized I said it and

people didn't know what it meant. More recently, I talked to a couple people that knew it that were big readers. So then I was thinking maybe it's just like an older phrase that people might know if they read a lot. But I would love to know what the origin is and if this is like a regional thing or kind of just not in vogue so much anymore because I love saying it. And so just to

Get this phrase out there one more time. It's to spell someone off, meaning to take their turn at a task. Yes, correct. Or sometimes we don't say off, we'll just say spell ya. Right. But either one is acceptable. Yeah. Well, the origin of this word is really, really old. It goes back to Old English.

In Old English, there was a... Yeah, yeah. From the time of Beowulf, the word spalian, S-P-E-L-I-A-N. Yeah, yeah. And that word meant simply to substitute for or take the place of something.

Its origin beyond that is kind of obscure. But by the 16th century, people were using the verb spell to mean to work temporarily, to give somebody a rest, whether they're, you know, babysitting.

bailing a boat or churning ice cream or churning butter, I guess, in those days. So that word has been around for a very, very long time. Sometimes people would talk about working spell and spell. That is, you know, taking turns. I take a spell, you take a spell or spell for a spell.

You're right that the same idea is reflected in that idea of spell being a period of time, you know, like sit a spell or we're having a dry spell of weather, spell of good weather. So this has been around for quite some time. And I'm surprised that other people don't know this term. Spell off may be a little bit...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah, Martha, I think that spell-off construction is more unusual, though it's not unheard of in Australia and the UK. Okay. So it doesn't have anything to do with, like, regional. It's just...

older and maybe less used by some people. Yeah, less used. Yeah, it's just sprinkled here and there because that's where it's lasted. Wow. Sylvia, thank you so much for your time. We appreciate you sharing. Yes, thank you so much. And this was, this like made my decade, I guess. It made our day too. So thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. Take care of yourself, Sylvia. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

Language. Who knew? It's weird as heck. 877-929-9673. Email words at waywardradio.org. And you know what? If you don't like those two ways to reach us, there are a dozen more on our website at waywardradio.org. Hello. You have a way with words. Hi. My name is Dale Dozier from Virginia Beach, Virginia. Dale, welcome to the show. What can we do for you? I didn't know about the word Deadpool and Deadpool.

And the character from the X-Men, so I was just trying to get that straight because I was into the X-Men series, but I never really stayed up on the character Deadpool and how people are using it in and out of the comic culture and in the regular world, in the vernacular, as they say.

And you were wondering about the word Deadpool itself? Yes, the word Deadpool. Oh, that's a really good one. I think there's some reference in the first of the Deadpool movies to what the meaning of Deadpool is. Do you know what a Deadpool is outside of the movie? No, I do not. It's a Deadpool, or actually earlier it was called a Deathpool, is...

a sum of money pooled together by participants that's going to be paid out after a death or deaths. So there are a lot of different forms of it, and the gambling world has turned it now into an art form, but originally there were two basic forms. In one form, the families of any of the participants in the death pool might get paid some of the money if...

one of the participants died, such in high-risk car racing. So it would help the families of the deceased. So for example, here's how one of the newspapers described it in 1910. It says, "Contestants in the Vanderbilt automobile races the other day formed a death pool

before the races took place, and each contestant contributed $100 to the sum, which was to be divided and given to the family of any married man who was killed in the races. The men knew they were tempting death, and that the spectators would not be satisfied unless there was a crimson trail in the wake of the racers. Very morbid. But the whole idea here is that all of the guys that were racing put in some money so that if they should die...

then their family would get a share of that pool. And then in other death pools, everybody puts in money and then the last living participant claims the entire pot. So sometimes it's in high-risk occupations like people who defuse mines or police officers or things like that or just groups of old friends.

And then there's another version, which is where there is a list of famous people. This is the version that usually takes today, like in Las Vegas, a list of famous people. And you put money down on the day or the method or whatever when they're going to die. And then you get a payout if you match that. And again, Las Vegas has perfected this to an art form. And there's a dozen different kinds of death pools there. And I don't want to get into them. But generally, that's how it is.

So this is where the character Deadpool gets the name as far as I understand it. I'm not fully up on the comic book character who first appeared, I believe, in 1991. But in the first movie, there is a pool on a chalkboard behind the bar.

where I think they're talking about who's going to die when. In any case, it was originally called Deadpool, but we have to mention the last Dirty Harry movie with Clint Eastwood. These are legendary films. You might remember these, Dale. Did you ever see those? I saw some of Clint Eastwood's.

Classic, classic films. So this one, The Deadpool, is about exactly this kind of bedding pool. This came out in 1988. Clint Eastwood stars. It's actually Liam Neeson's first big role, believe it or not. Yeah. The screenplay by Buddy Van Horn and the whole film centers around this Deadpool that's being manipulated so that somebody, a serial killer is manipulating somehow, I think.

so that they can win. But that formalized the form Deadpool in the common vernacular. But prior to that, it was usually called a death pool or sometimes a death bedding pool. How about that, Dale? Mm-hmm.

That's amazing. Yeah. Quite awakening and very informative. I really appreciate your diligent research. Dale, take care of yourself. Call us again sometime. All right. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to be on with you guys. Have a great day. Yeah, you too. Be well. Thanks, Dale. Take care. Bye-bye. All right. Thank you, Dale. All right. Bye-bye. Well, we talk about Latin and ancient Greek and Old English, but we also talk about all

All kinds of aspects of talk culture. Gambling and Clint Eastwood and death. So if you want to talk with us about any of those things or other things involving language, give us a call, 877-929-9673.

A Way With Words senior producer is Stephanie Levine. Tim Felton is our engineer and editor, and John Chinesky is our quiz master. Go to waywardradio.org for all of our past episodes, podcast links, and ways to reach us. If you have a language, thought, or question, the toll-free line is always open in the U.S. and Canada.

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Although we're not a part of NPR, we thank NPR stations throughout the United States that carry the show. And special thanks to our nonprofit's volunteer board. Michael Breslauer, Josh Eccles, Claire Grotting, Meryl Perlman, Bruce Rogo, Rick Seidenworm, and Betty Willis. Thanks for listening. I'm Grant Barrett. And I'm Martha Barnett. Until next time, goodbye. So long. ♪

Thank you.