Why Everyone’s Talking About GLP-1 Agonists | Dr. Tyna Moore | Align Podcast #521
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Welcome back to the live podcast. This conversation was something I didn't think I would be talking about. It is with Dr. Tina Moore. She is a functional medicine doctor. She is a best-selling author. She's a fantastic human in general, and she's probably the, if not one of the world's leading experts on GLP-1 agonists, i.e. ozempic and things of the like. I have only really heard pretty like not that ideal things about this peptide, and

And Dr. Tina really opened me up to a whole new perspective on it. So I think it's very interesting. I don't have a strong bias in either direction. I just enjoy the education and to get to learn new things. And so if you guys are interested in understanding a little bit more about the potential positive effects of GLP-1 agonists and how they can be supportive in a person's life,

One of the things that was interesting was big around pain reduction, which I thought was very fascinating. There's a lot of stuff. So she impacts a lot. The first 30 minutes is all geared towards that. And then the latter half of the conversation was much more around interpersonal things around how to downregulate the nervous system, as well as how and why stress and trauma.

can be stored in the body as well as specific tools and tactics to start to bring that to the surface and process and integrate so that we can live a healthier life. Much of it is around the way that that internalized stress, unprocessed stress ends up manifesting into various different forms of dis-ease and how to tend with that in today's pretty stressful culture.

Thank you for subscribing. Thank you for reviews. Thanks for tuning in to the Align Podcast YouTube channel. Subscribe over there for a chance to win some sweet prizes. At the end of each month, we announce the winner. That's it. That's all. Let's get to it with Dr. Tina Moore. What do you do when you're freaking out, Dr. Tina? When I'm freaking out? Yeah, when you're having like a meltdown. How often does that happen? Has it happened more or less throughout your life? When it does happen, presumably it does on occasion, what do you do? I breathe.

I usually do box breathing and then I smell something and I touch something that I know. So I'll usually go for some essential oils or something that I know and I usually will go for my dogs just to touch them. My dogs ground me. Dogs are great. They ground you. They're just like negative electron grounders.

creatures of you know donors they're a little like love heaters yeah and they go out and gather they ground and go out and gather all the negative electrons and just come in and you know so what does that mean negative electrons what's the relevance of that well you get negative electrons off of moving water so like rivers oceans

oceans and they work to calm down your nervous system. We need them. Positive electrons are like what comes off electronics like washing machines, dryers, cars and those pith you out and negative electrons chill you out. So dogs go out and ground, gather them all up and then that's why they're so lovely to pet. They work to like stabilize free radicals in the body, right? Yeah. Extra electrons stabilize things. Yeah.

Touch is a really major one. I feel like there's, well I don't feel like, I think it's just a reality, but we're like an under-touched culture,

I think a lot of that's like loneliness is an epidemic it's like a silent epidemic and I think something's challenging with that is it's a shameful thing to share and I think there's probably likely a fear to share the reality that a person feels lonely in a fear that that might actually perpetuate further loneliness because it may push people away you know I'm saying yeah I

I feel like the cure for that isn't always finding another confidant, but going out and finding community. You know, just being in a space with other people where you don't necessarily have to talk to them so much or like share intimate details or even make small talk. So like concerts, church, gyms, whatever.

I always find peace where I can go be around people and not really have to get into it too much. You know, and I find that lonely people, I'm a hermit if left to my own devices. And the lonelier you get, the more you hermit up. And it's kind of like this self-feeding cycle. And an easy way to get out of that is to, well, purpose and going and being of service. That's always helpful to me. But like going out where I can be around people but not have to

sit there and chit chat, you know? - Can you share for audience a little bit of like your story, who you are, how you got to be where you're at presently and how you got to be so dang passionate about Ozempic?

It seems random to me. I know, it's weird. She loves her something. What happened to you? No, it's just a really miraculous peptide that is getting vilified. I am a seeker of justice and I don't like lies and I don't like propaganda. And I felt like there was a big propaganda campaign on that peptide and I'm still trying to sort out why, but that's another story. I was a really sick little kid, really, really, really sick and came out that way, just kind of came out the shoot sick. And

and spent, it was really active as a kid. I kind of fought through it and just dealt with it. And really happy little girl, even though I was just constantly in and out of doctor's offices getting poked and prodded and overly medicated.

- What for? - At the end of the day, it comes down to auto, just immune dysregulation, like autoimmune stuff. But at the time I was just getting hammered with antibiotics and that messes up the whole. - That'll make it better. - Yeah, the whole system. So anyway, along the course of the way, I found some incredible doctors. Most of them were chiropractors, cool doctors that would actually talk to me and listen to me and answer my questions.

and fell completely out of health in my teen years. My way of rebelling was to, I don't even know, I started chain smoking and living off of

junk food and you know just destroyed my health moved to Oregon the rain I think I moved from Southern California to Oregon so like going from Sun to Rain just did something terrible to me. I didn't know what was happening I was a teenager You know bottomed out my health by becoming a mac and cheese a terian and spent years that way and then finally ended up having a really difficult pregnancy and childbirth

When I was around 25 and spent a few more years just sort of in the doldrums. And then one day was like, I got to get my shit together for this kid. I can't be I can't be that mom, you know, that mom that like lays on the couch and can't take care of her kid. And so I had.

Throughout this process, in my early 20s, I went to work for a naturopathic physician named Dr. Rick Marinelli. He was an acupuncturist and just an amazing practitioner. He was doing the coolest stuff. He was doing prolotherapy, regenerative injection therapies, IV chelation, really, really cool stuff, very cutting-edge regenerative longevity, what we would call now regenerative and longevity medicine, but this was decades ago.

total Jedi and I just thought what he was doing was so cool but I was still taking terrible like just complete piss poor care of myself he pulled me aside he's like you can't work here in chain smoke we gotta get over this

So a couple years after I had my daughter, I was like, I got to get it together and started seeking what the truths were. That was right when the paleo diet had come out. So I found Rob Wolf and that whole path. I was in naturopathic medical school at the time and just kind of slowly but surely just always looking for the truth in things. And along this long journey...

I also in my undergrad had worked up at Oregon Health Sciences University. I've always been in medicine either as a patient or working in that field. And it's just pretty obvious when things are being propagandized, truths are being covered up. And I just always seek out – I do not like injustice.

I had a really hard time over the past few years with everything that was going on. I just do not like lies and injustice. And I push back like just automatically. And I was seeing a lot of that happen around GLP-1s and my podcast producer, because I have a podcast. And he said, you need to do a piece on Ozempic, the weight loss, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I don't like talking about weight loss with my audience. I like talking about strength. I like talking about strength over skinny and weight.

My journey has been in the world of rehab and strength training and movement and just movement is medicine, muscle is medicine. And I started researching this peptide and it was not at all what we were being told. And that fired me up because I was like, why is the entire community going, not only was the mainstream media going this direction, but the entire functional medicine community was as well. And when those two go in the same direction, I was like,

Something is off here. I mean, I have an ignorant suspicion of Ozempic, but that's coming from like an ignorant place for not knowing much about it. But the idea of a bunch of, you know, skinny LA girls on weight loss medication. But there's always that. I'm kind of like unleary around that. So could you support me in my ignorance and understanding what is GLP-1?

I don't know, what's the acronym stand for? Maybe it's not a relevant thing, but like what the heck is it exactly? It's a peptide. What's happening there? It's a molecule that our body makes endogenously in our guts and in our brain. And it has receptors, receptors all over our body for it. And some of the impacts, it basically was discovered in the early 2000s from scientists

Gila lizard venom. It's not made from that. It was isolated and discovered there and then they found that we make our own too. I'm a big fan of DMT and Bufo. So anything that comes from any pus coming off of a creature, like a lizard-like creature, I'm like, that's probably good shit. Yes. I'm with it. So it was originally, from what I understand, studied for neuroregeneration. And then it was orphaned. It was given up and orphaned.

And then actually it was rediscovered and studied for type 2 diabetes because it has such profound impacts on metabolic health. That's my background. So my background is in metabolic health. That's really what my mentor taught me. And I know that I did a lot of regenerative medicine and I did a lot of bioidentical hormone replacement. I did all those things in practice, but at the end of the day, it was always coming back to metabolic health. And that's always been my platform. And I've been telling people to, you know, build muscle and eat steak for a lot longer than it's been popular. And so it's...

It was very interesting to me to start looking at it from that standpoint. And then the neuro regenerative impacts. I was like, wait, what? We can calm down glial cells in the brain and regenerate neurons. Like what else does that? Does it still actually derive from the, how's the lizard called? The gila lizard. No, that's a cool lizard. No, it's not. But I want to get some of that. Yeah, I know. Right. Where can I get the gila lizard stuff? I don't know. I would be so on board with that.

I know. It's really interesting. The backstory on it is really interesting. And so when I started finding that out and then so whenever I learn about something, I'm so interested in the impacts on the brain because all my background was in pain, right? That was mostly what came into my clinic was people in pain. And pain is so interesting. And I personally struggle with chronic pain. Where? Just all over. It's like a whole. Like fibromyalgia type? Yeah, it's like a whole.

immune I have psoriatic arthritis that never went diagnosed and so very painful condition that attacks the emphasis points of your tendons and ligaments where ligament and tendons meet bone is the emphasis it's highly innervated and it starts to erode and become inflamed and it's just like your whole body

Which is interesting because the injections, prolotherapy at the core is injection therapy where you treat the anthesis. So it's just ironic that my whole career was about treating anthesis pain. And here I am struck with this autoimmune condition. Full circle. Yeah. So I personally always research things that have...

whenever there's a brain impact, I immediately go to pain. What's the impact on pain? Because pain really is a central sensation, right? It's coming brain down. Your pain is in your brain. It's not as much in your tissues. It's being read and signaled from the brain. And so I started looking at the potential of these peptides on pain and then the potential on joints. And obviously for totally selfish reasons, like what is it doing in autoimmune disease? What is it doing in musculoskeletal issues? What is it doing in the brain?

And I was completely blown away. And it was not at all what we were being told. It was not what we were being sold.

And then I started thinking, well, shoot, this is just a peptide. The Gila lizard version and the version that we make, it has a very short half-life in the body. It's in and out very quickly. The version that they are selling through big pharma is it has a longer, it's bioidentical. Let's say semaclutide, that's your basic GLP-1 agonist. It is bioidentical to what we make. It just has a tweak on it to make it have a longer half-life in the body. So it lasts four to seven days.

So I thought, well, heck, this is a peptide. I mean, we've been using peptides for years, right? BPC-157, TB-500, like big in all the communities. Everybody in our communities tend to know about the... BPC is the Wolverine peptide. This is the Gila lizard peptide. Yeah, right. I love that you're excited about the Gila lizard. That's dope. Because everybody gets real... I'm sold. As soon as you say Gila lizard, like I'm locked in. I was nothing but suspicion before that. Gila lizard. Yeah.

Here we go. So I thought, well, what is going on? Why are we using it like this? In other peptides, the way we dose them is we might have some algorithms around dosing, but generally we dose it to symptom relief. We dose peptides to symptom relief, and that's different for each individual. It's not like the standardized dosing protocol where we slam people with higher and higher doses and blow them into oblivion. Another signaling peptide hormone in our body would be insulin, oxytocin, leptin, ghrelin. These are all peptides.

signaling peptide hormones. And GLP-1 is one of them that's in the suite. And for a 10-year-old, what's a peptide? A peptide is just a chain of amino acids strung together. And when you take them therapeutically, they basically insert themselves where they need to go and they do the work they need to do. That's why sometimes BPC-157 doesn't work because it's maybe not...

That's why sometimes Ozempic doesn't work because it's not what's needed for that body. So peptides are really cool that way. And what GLP-1 does for metabolic health is it helps with appropriate insulin signaling. So insulin doesn't need to be roaring all day long or even petering out. And folks with type 2 diabetes, that's the extreme version of metabolic dysfunction and most Americans sit somewhere on the spectrum.

97% of US adults are fairly compromised in their metabolic health. But the signaling of that insulin to do its thing appropriately is what's needed. And then the reception of the insulin, so the hearing of it at the cellular level, it helps with both of those. So we get better insulin signaling and we get better insulin reception. And that's what it got studied for. That just happened to be what it got studied for and marketed for.

But there's all these other impacts. GLP-1, Ozempic, synonymous. Pretty much, yes. GLP-1 agonist, semaclutide, terzepatide are the generic names. Semaclutide is Wegovy and Ozempic, and terzepatide is Monjoro and ZepBound.

And you can get these compounded. Do you have any like financial bias towards people going out and buying Ozempic or any of these things? No. I have no. You just want to spread the word. Yeah. I've actually been approached by, I cannot even tell you how many telemedicine companies who want to sponsor my podcast or do some kind of brand deal. Like literally today I just told a company, I was like, I will not accept money from anybody who sells GLP-1s. So going down the path of, I think that the, the,

pain aspect and like the neurologic aspect is really interesting. Is that tied into the insulin or is that separate, separate factors? It's both. So there's separate mechanisms of action that have nothing to do with metabolic health. And then also when you improve metabolic health, you improve those significantly. So you get both. And I think that we've got cardiovascular benefits, we've got musculoskeletal benefits, we've got

benefits on different organ systems of the body, kidneys, I mean, pancreatic, and the impacts there are a separate mechanism of action. And also when you improve metabolic health, you improve everything. Would somebody that does not need or have a desire to lose weight,

fat benefit from using something like a GLP-1? Yes. And that was my whole argument. That was what I came out the gates with was like, hey, wait a minute. What if we applied these in a different kind of dosing strategy instead of the generic brand name dosing strategy that is being applied to people in a very pathologic state of extreme obesity and type 2 diabetes? What if we handled it like we do other peptides?

and consider an individual personalized dosing and utilize it for a variety of other outcomes. And when I started talking to my colleagues about this, they were like, oh my gosh, I had never considered that. But you're right. Like the applications for this are phenomenal. If we, I mean, anybody can utilize these peptides if they find the dose that's right for them. And that dose is really varied and very individualized and often has nothing to do with what the standards say you should dose at. Hmm.

So main factors that would be, and so ozempic is just a peptide. I didn't, I didn't know that. It's just a peptide. Interesting. Yeah. It's just, you tell me it's from the gila gila guy and it's a peptide. I'm like, this sounds like great stuff. Yeah.

That's what happened to me. I was sitting in my room and I'm like, wait a minute. And you know, this was, I think last summer or last spring, you know, it was everywhere and it was being so vilified. And again, when the entire functional medicine community and the entire mainstream media suddenly like agree on something.

I was like, I don't know, something smells off here. I'm going to dig deeper. Right. And I'm pretty tenacious. So I start digging and I was like, this is not what we're being told. So would the main issues be with it be from a person that is using too much of it? And then I guess or maybe just whatever enough to make you not be hungry. You don't get the signal to be hungry.

to be hungry anymore. Is that kind of like the function of a Zempik in LA? Yes. You'll just not be hungry anymore and you'll start starving yourself and you'll lose weight in kind of an awkward way. I think it was originally designed to help those who are really struggling with, you know,

Leptin and ghrelin are signaling appetite hormones. They don't work right without GLP-1 on the scene. So that was the other part I found interesting. When I started digging in, I realized that the receptors for those peptides don't actually bind correctly in some cases without GLP-1 on board. It's like an orchestra.

And so I do think that some people who are struggling with, you know, I mean, that's a whole other conversation, obesity. It's a nuanced conversation. And it's not just to eat less, move more. You know, a lot of these folks have very, very impaired appetite signaling in their brains. They either aren't sending the signal or they're not receiving the signal. And so these are folks that will truly overeat themselves into pathology. But over here in our community of folks who are metabolically healthy, say you've got somebody with autoimmune disease or you've got somebody with the applications, the

the potential for the applications. And I'm not saying these treat these conditions, but we're seeing really incredible studies coming out and being done on Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and multiple sclerosis and neurologic conditions, right? Conditions that are immune in nature, they are metabolic in nature, but Alzheimer's is type three diabetes, but they're also neurologic in nature. And I think the peptides in that scenario, really incredible. Also,

pretty interesting data coming out about smoking cessation, alcohol cessation, opioid cessation, because it plays on your dopaminergic pathways. And so it's helping people have the onus of control back and not potentially chase their dopamine dragons other ways.

And what does GLP endogenously do in the body for a 10-year-old? What's like the main functions of GLP within the body, not taking it from in the form of a peptide to kind of stimulate production? I guess peptides, it's still endogenous because it's stimulating your internal production. The version that most people understand is that it slows gastric motility and it helps with insulin signaling and it helps...

clear up that impaired insulin signaling and also it works in the brain and what they thought was we make it in the motility being like peristalsis yes slowing down peristalsis so it makes you feel fuller longer peristalsis is being like the movement or the undulation of your intestines and such right kind of move like the second you put something in here it all starts

Going down this way. Yep. Smooth muscle, involuntary, makes its way down. And then in the brain, it has an impact on blunting appetite and chilling that out. But I don't think we need to dose people into it.

appetite crushing. I think that most people in LA, the Ozempic LA, that's what I was getting at is like, we've got the pathology version and then we've got the Ozempic LA version. And I think those people really are dosing themselves into anorexia. And I don't think that's necessary. You can give somebody appetite control. You can even dose so low for other reasons that you don't even impair the appetite and still have benefits of the peptide.

Why would one want to slow down gastric motility? Is that what you said? Yes. To me, in my ignorant mind, that sounds like what most people would probably want to increase gastric motility. Because when folks have impaired gastric motility, whether it's too fast or too slow, so you've got people with chronic constipation and then you've got people who are going too fast, the idea is that the body, with healthy endogenous GLP-1 creation and usage in the body, that the body would...

make gastric motility go at a rate that things can be absorbed properly. So there's a balance, right? It's all a big orchestrated event that the body generally has control over. - So this is where it's like homeostasis of gastric motility. - Yes. - It's like an equalizer of sorts. - Yes, but people's guts are busted and people's health is busted.

And so we're, you know, I mean, most people in America, I mean, most people that walk in my door throughout my career had some version of IBS to some degree. Most unhealthy people have leaky gut. And my, that was the other thing I started thinking. I was like, well, wait a minute. If it's made in the gut, it's also made in the brain, which we can get to, but it's made in the gut. In the L cells of the gut, most people's guts are trashed.

Most people have leaky gut or they've got with aging you get atrophy of the gut lining so their L cells are compromised So I was like well, maybe people are also just functionally deficient You know when we and what are L cells so L cells are the little cells in the gut that make GLP-1 So when a short chain fatty acid comes in contact with like butyric acid or you know sodium butyrate something like that comes in contact with the L cells they secrete GLP-1 and

And they'll do it in the presence of a bolus of food. They'll do it in the presence of high glucose. So the body, you know, we're supposed to run off glucose. I mean, we can run off ketones too, of course. But when we would eat fruit, if we were like hunter-gatherers, you know, nomadic people, and we found fruit, we want to really maximize absorption of that glucose to be used as fuel. And so GLP-1 would slow gastric motility so that we could

actually absorb the glucose that we need to use for fuel. But that's assuming that people's cells are working and that their insulin signaling is working. And, you know, we don't, you probably do, but like most humans on this planet are a bit of a mess in that whole department. So I'm a mess in other ways. It's okay. We're good. So it got me thinking like, what if people's L cells are just busted and they, they're not making it. So then I started researching that. It turns out folks who are obese have type two diabetes and fatty liver are not

low in GLP-1. And I was like, well, I'll be damned. These folks just aren't making enough. And yes, we could argue all day that heal their gut, get them eating right, get them moving. I argue that you have to do all of that. And also there's this potential to utilize a peptide to- Get things going. To get-

give them back what they're missing. You know, like we would with thyroid, for instance, most people go to their doctor and unless they're severely hypothyroid, they don't get any help. And in my career, I hand out thyroid very, very readily because there's folks who might just be functionally deficient for whatever reason. Maybe it's chronic stress. Maybe it's because their adrenals are tanked. Who knows? Maybe it's because they've had so much toxic exposure. They're

poor thyroid's petering out. Autoimmune is a huge component of low thyroid. And they have chronic migraines or they have chronic pain or they have chronic depression. And you give them just a sprinkle of thyroid hormone and the seas part and the lights come on and the, you know, everything shifts for them. And I'm like,

Well, maybe GLP-1 would have that impact. So I started experimenting on myself and my loved ones and asking every colleague I had if they were using it. So I've got colleagues doing chronic care, doing MS, doing rheumatology, doing all kinds of things in practice. And I'm like, see how this works and get back to me.

and started getting feedback. And then I started talking about it on my platform and I have a decent size following and people started messaging me hundreds, thousands of messages have come in so far of people saying, you know, I'm using it for my rheumatoid arthritis. I'm using it for this and that, or I started on it for my metabolic health and I was able to go off all my antidepressants because the impact on my brain has been so profound. So I kept digging and researching and pulling up information. And I just think that there's a tremendous impact here that

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What are the like, quote unquote, non-peptide based agonists for creating GLP-1 in the body? Is there like nutritional approaches or lifestyle approaches or is it a stress based thing or is it probably all that? No, no, no. That's a great question. And I would argue that we should do that too. So I'm all about, you know, as a naturopathic physician, I'm like, let's use all the tools. Let's do all the things. Yeah.

And if we do use any kind of pharmaceutical or exogenous anything or hormone, we do everything we can to optimize it so that we can keep the dose of this super low, right? So like testosterone, for example, we want to keep that. We want to be able to use these hormones as long as we need them. And so we want to do everything to optimize that hormone coming in the body. Same with these. So some ways to naturally raise it would be to have a healthy gut, right? Healthy microbiome. So anything and everything that would assist that, I would argue,

exercise, nutrition, sunlight, you know, all the basics, stress reduction, of course. I mean, stress is a whopper on the gut. So anything, all the work that you do, you know, movement and breath and the things that really help keep your nervous system in line is going to be helpful.

Just feeling safe. I think it's probably a major one. Yeah. It's not addressed so much in nutritional conversations. Yeah. Do you feel safe in your life? Yes or no? And then like unpack beyond that. What does safety mean to you? Can you wake up and feel at ease with yourself, with your day? Do you look forward to your day? Do you feel like you're on purpose? Yeah, purpose. Do you feel like there's like a reason for you to show up?

Yeah. I think that's like a really major one for people and they're looking for the peptide or the nutritional thing or I'll stop eating avocados or I'll start eating avocados or whatever the thing is. It's like there's, I think, deeper like metaphysical factors that are pulling a lot of the strings. Yeah, because if you're

unhappy and miserable in your job in your life you're not going to absorb any of those great foods and peptides aren't going to work for very long and you're going to hit a wall i mean yeah you're right 100 it comes down and how much cortisol are you cranking out which is going to completely just cortisol is catabolic period it just melts tissues so you're going to melt your gut lining you're going to not secrete your immune lining your iga of your gut lining so all of those things are important

Bitter herbs, and so this is where berberine comes in and any bitter herb really is gonna be helpful in GLP-1 secretion. We've got short chain fatty acids of course, and so your nutritional choices are gonna matter. There's different probiotic strains that they're researching and that seems to be a really popular selling point. I'm not a big fan of probiotics, I'm not a big fan of solo strains of probiotics for long periods of time. I think it's a great way to screw up your biome.

And they're only helpful while you use them. So yes, but also you can shift your microbiome to a more favorable biome by the foods that you choose to put in your mouth too and the stress mitigation that you do. So yes, all of those things matter.

But GLP-1 is made in the brain too. And that's where I got really interested. I was like, okay, so it's made in certain regions of the brain and there's receptors all over the brain and there's receptors all over the body that have nothing to do with your metabolism or your weight, right? And so that got me thinking, well, if it's made in the brain, it must be important in the brain. And it isn't entirely understood how it works in there, but we do know, again, it works on dopamine and serotonin pathways. It definitely...

So the nausea center of our brain has GLP-1 receptors. I think that people who have a really rich bed of GLP-1 receptors in the nausea center probably are going to experience more nausea on this peptide. But the way that I propose it is like we don't need to dose to nausea. We don't need to dose to side effects. We don't need to dose to appetite suppression. None of that's necessary. Okay. And so going back to the neurological stuff and pain reduction, how does that work?

Couple different ways that I understand, and I'm sure there's more, and I'm sure they're researching more, but it's anti-inflammatory in the brain. So our glial cells in the brain, do you know about glial cells? Yeah, go deeper into it. Microglial cells are basically the immune system of our brain, is the way I describe it. And...

When in our body, we have Th1 and Th2. And the way that I describe it to patients is it's just a teeter totter. It's a checks and balances system. When your immune system pops off in your body, head down, your immune system has checks and balances. In the brain, when the immune system gets ignited, there's no checks and balances. When it's on, it's on. So when microglial cells get activated, they are on.

And they are now primed. And the way that they get turned on is there's a variety of ways. It could be trauma, emotional trauma, physical trauma, head trauma, any kind of trauma, hormonal fluxes, pregnancies, taking oral contraception. Who knows different ways that the hormones will impact the microglial cells. Infections will activate the microglial cells. A lot of things pass through the blood brain barrier that we didn't used to think.

did. You know, if you have a leaky gut, you have a leaky brain barrier. So lots of different ways to get those glial cells fired up. Once they're on and they're primed, the way that has been important for me personally and in my practice is that it drives over-exaggeration of your nervous system. So you end up with a

wind-up pain phenomenon in a lot of people. So they end up in this, some will call it centrally sensitized pain. It's just this wind-up pain phenomenon where your nervous system starts to act aberrantly and confused. And so your pain receptors in your skin are naked. They're little C fibers. They're little naky fibers that are ready to go off, right? Because you have to react quickly to pain so you don't cause further injury. Unfortunately, when you start having this syndrome happening, these

fibers get confused and they start crossing themselves with like, say your mechanoreceptors or your pressure receptors. So now when someone gives you a hug, your body registers it as pain. Yeah. I've experienced that, but not in myself, but with girls. Yes. With women in particular. With guys as much. That's the estrogen. That's the estrogen fluxes we had at puberty and on the birth control pill and with pregnancy. And it's,

It's a whole thing. And so this is why we see more often fibromyalgia in women, right? So once we have that wind-up pain phenomenon, it's very difficult to turn it off. It has been my entire career trying to deal with it in patients and turn it down. It's usually there's some very...

and you may have experienced this with the women you know who have it, there's usually some pretty terrible backstory in their life of trauma, abuse, I think adverse childhood events. I read a study, which I have not been able to find again, but I read a study years ago saying that if you had, you know, five or more adverse childhood events, that your risk of developing chronic pain was like 80 some percent. I mean, it's so people who've been abused, especially as children are looking at a

life of pain. So that's really interesting. So anything that can help these microglial cells go back to their original form and stop being primed. And the other thing about them being primed is that they're quick to respond again. So even if therapeutically we calm them down, if that person gets in a car accident or you probably have heard this story, somebody...

I have so many patients who were like, I don't know what happened when I was 18. I was in a rollover car accident. Like we rolled like seven times and I walked away fine.

And then I had a baby and then I had a stressor and then I had a flu and then I got rear-ended at 35 miles per hour and I'm in chronic pain now. Like how come the rollover accident at 18 didn't send them into it but the 35 mile per hour bump from behind at the stoplight did? That's microglial cell activation. And so to have a peptide that could potentially

shift that back to a more normalized Cleo activity is like amazing to me. I have a random question in relation to women because I could always use help. What is something that men and or culture might not know about women in your experience that would be supportive for them to know? Because I think that women can be very confusing for men. Very complicated. I'll tell you something my husband does that I think is so phenomenal. This

This is so, it was so insightful of him. The first thing he does when I'm freaking out is he touches me. He just energy. I don't know if he's transferring energy or what, but he just puts his hand on me and it's a firm touch. So I think firm, slow touch, hugs, hugs are huge. Just that firm, slow touch without the, you know, attempt to get sex out of it. Like just that.

presence like that strong male presence is so helpful and I think the other part and not I'm and I say that a firm slow touch is how would you approach breast tissue you wouldn't like come in and be pokey and fidgety you'd come in with like you know what you're doing and it's like it's a firm touch so like that firm slow touch I think is really helpful and then the other thing is when I'm venting because women emotionally need to sometimes just off gas we're just talking and

We just want to be heard, we get it out. As we say it, we process it. And he said to me once, and he says it all the time, is, "Do you just want me to listen or do you want my input?" And I'm like, "I don't fucking want your input. I didn't ask for your input." And I realize, I mean, I didn't say that back, but I realized that's what women want. We just want to be heard and then we're done. We just have to get it out.

Men don't want to talk very often. And you guys have a different way of dealing with your stress. We just have completely different ways of dealing with our stressors. And so we as women, I think society wise, just bottle it up. And that often will present as pain and neurosis and anxiety. And then we come out as like these pithed women with, you know, our nervous system sort of fritzing out around us.

And it's just not necessary. It's just because we're processing things differently. I think that's the core of functional medicine, what you just said, is we as humans end up just bottling things up as opposed to allowing it to process. There's probably other factors too, environmental factors, all sorts of things, like childhood things. But I think that would be probably the cornerstone of most dis-ease is a system's inability to process and process.

Like that feeling of repression or shutting down or disassociation or it's not safe to be expressed So I'm just gonna like put it down in I think eventually that ends up manifesting is some other symptom ology if you don't in some way process It doesn't need to be right now, but ideally in like 30 seconds or five minutes or two hours or like later today Yeah, or it will come out in other ways

And pain is a big one. And pain is a big one because what your body is trying to do is your body is just trying to communicate with you and it doesn't speak exact English. It speaks symptomology and it can come out in the form of nausea or cramps or tightness in your neck or in your jaw or it could come out as chronic pain in some place or it could come out as some type of itis somewhere or maybe holding on to some kind of type of tissue you don't want to hold on to or

takes you out of homeostasis. And I think what's happening there is your body is just trying to literally have a conversation with you in its own biological language of saying like, we need to adjust things. Like there's something going on here and I really need your attention. I think that's where movement and fitness come in because I mean, they've done studies where things, our traumas or our stressors

will come into certain parts of our brain and then slowly but surely move out to other parts of our brain. And it takes a long time for a trauma to make its way to the verbal centers of your brain. So talking through your trauma, I think, is not usually very helpful. I think movement through... It was interesting when my mentor passed away, I...

cried all the time because he didn't tell anyone he was sick and I took over his practice and he didn't tell anyone why I took over his practice. And when he passed away, I had to deliver the bad news to everybody. And it was like, you know, 10 times a day I'm telling people who loved him that he was gone. And

Every time I would leave the room, I had to be stoic. And every time I would leave the room and I would go in my office and start crying. And it was so interesting because I had a therapist who was she did art therapy. And she said I had a Pilates reformer in my clinic. And she said, you know, what's interesting is these traumas don't.

start and end in the same places in our brain. And it takes some time. She goes, try moving while you talk about them. And so I got on the reformer and I started talking about them and I was moving and there were no tears. And she said, art, drumming, music, particularly drumming, but music in general, anything you do with your hands, movement, all of that will help you process your emotions so much better than sitting down and trying to talk them out.

all the time. And I thought that was so interesting. And then I've seen other studies since showing if you have an acute trauma, it won't settle itself. It won't hardwire itself so hard into you to be relooped. If you are active, people who are active tend to be presented with

something traumatic and process it much better and then it doesn't end up being this like Achilles heel nearly as often if you can actually you know move through it quite literally so while talking about it can help or it's nice to be able to off gas the feelings that we're having the words are very static

I think movement is or art or whatever it is, music, whatever it is that allows us to be human beings, you know, working with our hands, I think is important having purpose. But I just think humans are so blunted and out of their bodies. Yeah, that's like when you get a stress response, what a stress response essentially is, is it's a mobilization response. So it's setting your physiology up to be able to either fight whatever's in front of you or run away from it. And if you go too deep down that path where you feel out of control, then you could go into a freeze response.

and that gets into like gut motility and all of those other aspects and that gets into repression and disassociation where suddenly like your physiology saying this saying this is so freaking intense my only solution to this is actually literally to like spiritually leave the room i'm gonna like leave my body because i cannot handle this and i'll i know that i need to address this because i'm now essentially spending money on a credit card and i'm out of money you know i'll address this i

I have a $5,000 debt now because I repressed and disassociated and left my body. I don't have the money for it now. I'll come back and address this later. And then hopefully you actually do. But like when you're getting, does that analogy make sense? - Yeah, totally. No, I just had, my daughter just went through a really terrible breakup

And I keep telling her, I'm like, come to the gym with me. Like, just let's move, let's move. - Yeah, move it through the body. - Sitting in your apartment, trying to process this is futile. It's just gonna drop itself into those dark places where everything else traumatic that's happened to you is gonna drop itself. And then you end up kind of pulling into it, right? It's like that comfortable, familiar space. And I'm like, let's go move through this. Let's go sweat it out, quite literally. Like, let's go sweat it out. Let's go process it. It doesn't have to be, you know what I mean? I think things like boxing and,

things that are somewhat warrior in spirit can also be very therapeutic, but shoot, just going to yoga. It could be yin yoga or just, it could be breathing exercises. It could be a cold plunge. It could, I mean, anything that'll just move you through what you're feeling. I have never gone for a walk. Like I have never had, you asked me what I do when I'm freaking out. I go for a walk actually. Like now that we're talking about it, I just, if it's too much, I get up, I leave whatever situation I'm in and I start going, I just start walking. I have never come back from a walk less clear than I went out. It's,

I always process it or I get in water or I go deadlift or something heavy. Like if I do some heavy lifting just to hit my CNS, I come back and I'm like, oh, okay, now I know what to do and I can deal with this. - Yeah, you get to metabolize all that you created in order to mobilize yourself. Like you actually get to utilize that response.

And with walking, walking is interesting as well because it activates your waist management systems, you know, so like your lymphatic system and different than the glymphatic system. But the lymphatic system, the places of highest lymph node concentration are in places that you'll naturally get movement because contraction is how you actually circulate that stuff. So back behind the knees and in the groin and the abdomen, up in the shoulders and the neck, all the places that through...

Just taking a little stroll you're rinsing all those rags if you're starting to feel like you're starting to build up in this kind of sensation of stasis or stagnation and you're just feeling like kind of like oh like you're almost like suffocating on yourself probably what your inclination is is

If you really listen to yourself, it would be to move. But because you've kind of gone so deep into that, the inclination is probably to collapse further. Yeah, you shut down and curl up. You shut down more and all that waste just builds up more and it becomes this really toxic cycle that's very challenging to get out of. Yeah. And so if you can have like a buddy, you know, or have a reminder to yourself or any of that,

that it's time to move, it's time to get up. Just to the least, you could say, it's time to activate my waste management system. There's a lot of shit building up. - Yeah, I think I'm lucky in that I'm such a, I'm a flight, so whenever anything gets bad, I wanna run away. I literally am like, time to go, let's bolt. House is on fire, get out. So for me, movement just seems-- - You're very frustrating to me in relationship.

It's the worst. I'm like, everybody sit down. We're going to sort this thing out. But I could go for a walk and sort it out. It'd be so much better. Oh, that's nice. Go for a walk. And if I think every therapist should just be a walking therapist, like nobody should sit there and try to process their emotions while their body's not moving. Like I, they called me hyper kinetic as a kid, but that's just a nice way of saying ADHD. But if people are not moving regularly, you're right. I mean, they can't process anything. And it's just the, it's,

Like you said, it's the lymphatic system, but it's think about it too. Just my husband's all the systems. Think of my husband's an electrician. So I always think of it that way too. When, um, imagine that you've got, you know, too much load in one place. I don't even know how electricity works, but you've got too much load in one place and it's going to blow the breaker or the circuit or whatever. Right.

But what if you could move and then open up the channel so it could dissipate and go like that's how I feel stress is. It's like you sit there and you can feel it. It's so cute, though. My dogs always know my dogs come up and start hitting me with their nose and they're like time to go outside because we live on 40 acres. So it's like time to go outside and go for a walk, you know, and they just know when I'm sitting there and it's starting to build up, they must smell it on me or something because they they come over and they're like, let's go outside and they do their little dance to get me to get up and get moving.

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Another reason dogs are awesome. So more around pain reduction, because I think like I'm I'm enamored by the biopsychosocial model of pain, which I've had Laramere Mosley on the podcast, I think a couple of times. And I think he's one of like the main pioneers in that. I've had a handful of people that are that are big in that space. And so I think that, you know, bio, psycho, like bio, biology, psycho, psychology, social environment and how you relate to it.

I think that's really interesting of our perception of pain being something that's just like a cut what is your perception of pain and How do we manage chronic pain that we may be experiencing where we're kind of think most people get acute pain out hurts Yeah, do whatever you got to do for it but there's probably a lot of people that are pretty boggled by the fact that their back or you know neck or

or head or whatever has just kind of ongoingly been this. - Chronic pain is so interesting. That was my whole career. You know, it was people who just couldn't shake what was going on and they would go to the chiropractor, they'd go do whatever and then they'd end up in my office as the last resort. I was that girl, you know, and that's whoever, all the other practitioners in Portland who referred to me sent, they're like, go see Tina, she'll figure it out when no one else could figure it out. And I think a lot of it is deeply ingrained traumas. - Why?

Why is trauma create pain? Why is trauma catalyze pain? I cannot tell you the number of times that, cause I would drop four inch needles into people and I cannot tell you the number of times I would drop a needle and it could be a big dude like you. I would drop a needle into a spot and I have this weird Spidey sense. So it's, and I used to teach this. I've taught hundreds of practitioners how to do these injections and they would be thinking they were in the right spot. And I'm like, hold on, hold on, give me the syringe. And I would just ever so slightly reangle it and drop into like the eye of the storm. And that person would just start bawling.

And they weren't crying because it hurt. They were crying because I hit whatever spot was there, you know, and traumas they had completely forgotten would come out. I had one woman who was a power lifter, big, tough lady, and did that on her ankle. And she just fell apart on the table. Is this like dry kneeling? What is this?

It's prolotherapy or PRP or stem cells. It doesn't matter what's in the syringe. It's the technique of really hitting the spots that need it. And so this is more of a palpation base. And we do use ultrasound, but hitting those emphasis points, hitting the pain points, hitting the pain generators. And that's what I did for decades. I hit this spot on her and she ends up in the bathroom and she's crying for like

I can't get her out of the bathroom. I mean, it was a long time she was in there. And finally, I was like, hey, are you okay? And she came out and she shared. It was so sad. She said, I was raped when I was like seven or nine. I can't remember what year. And she said, and I had completely forgotten about it.

and he hurt my ankle and I hit that spot with a needle 'cause I was walking by as one of my students was injecting her and I was like, "Hold on, hold on." And I just have that sense. And it's like this curse and this gift 'cause I can always find those spots on people but people just fall apart on your table. - Why is that a curse?

because if you're not prepared for it or you don't have somebody in the room who can help them process that trauma right then and there, it's like releasing demons. It's like hitting a nest of spiders sometimes. There's some dark places there. I remember my assistant, the way I would describe it is sometimes you hit the eye of the storm and it's almost like

I mean, some pretty heavy dark energy will come almost shoot. I, this sounds crazy, but almost shooting out at the end of the other end of that syringe and into the room. And I remember my assistant, I tried to warn her of this and she was brand new. And I remember her almost passing out right when I hit a spot in a person's back and she like an old injury. And, uh,

She almost passed out and I was like get out of the room go sit down and she said what was that? And I was like, that's the that's the gig. I don't know I don't know why I can do that But that's where you need somebody in the room to help them work through that because they'll end up in your office crying for 40 minutes and you've got other patients you've got to move on to you know, so it's That's a thing and the body holds it and it stores it in deep deep deep places. Why does it do that? I don't know. I don't entirely know. I mean, I've read all the books I've talked to all the people

Everybody has a little bit similar, a little bit different theory. I think that at the end of the day, we walk, I think of it like a vampire, you know, if you wall it up and bury it, it won't come back out unless the light hits it. And I was going in there with a syringe full of light, you know, and breaking open the spider's nest. So I don't know why it does that. I think the body needs to forget. Imagine, imagine what happened the past few years and the denial that people are in and people

we don't want to remember painful things, right? We don't, it's just easier to forget things. It's like, are you talking about like the, the, the pandemic? Yeah. Nice. So many people just, oh, well we did the best we could. We did the best we could with the information we had at the time. We have to move on. And I'm over here like,

No. There's some serious crimes against humanity that need to be dealt with. It's odd that there's never been an apology. That's because this is how our body... It's very immature, it feels. Well, we can't... Clearly, whether it was intentional or not, I'm not smart enough or aware enough of what's happening in politics in the world, but most of the things that were considered conspiracy theories have now been validated, which is fine. Like...

It would just be sensible for there to be conversation, like open conversation. I'm like, Oh shoot. Like, yeah, a lot of the stuff that I was touting and a lot of the, the, the relationships that I was burning during that timeframe, because I was so like, you know, in this high, mighty elite pedestal within myself, like moral pedestal within myself, I was actually wrong about that. And, and,

that's, that's fine. Like I'm now evolving and growing and, and, and like, I'd like to move on, but I just want to like share like my bad, like it'd be interesting. It'd be interesting to me. It's interesting to me why that hasn't ever become a, a,

Unless maybe I just still living in my own echo chambers and I'm confused. - It's because of the way we process pain. We put it away. Our brains can't remember pain. Imagine if you had a memory of a very painful event, like say you broke your leg. If every time you remembered it, you re-felt that pain, you would die.

Right. We our bodies, our brains naturally repress pain memories. So that is a very painful memory for a lot of people. And so people want to repress it and forget about it and put it away in a little cabinet where hopefully it'll never have to be accessed and it won't come back to bite them. And so denial. We do this with our own pain, though. Right. Like my husband, he he literally will break a bone.

and walk around on it for weeks until it gets so bad that I'm like, can I please do something about this? Like, can I please help? Is this something that like happened once and now it's a story or is this like a regular occurrence? He literally, he's a farmer and he breaks things and he's tough as nails. So he's had tremendous amounts of

some very severe injuries, and he has the least amount of chronic pain of anyone I know. But chronic pain is, I think, a series of repression. And also the brain wants to forget. The brain has to forget. It has to forget painful memories. It has to forget actual pain, physical pain. It has to forget these things. Otherwise, we would die every time we remembered it. And I remember in chiropractic college, them going into this very deep

explanation of all of it. But at the bottom line is, is the brain puts it away somewhere where we can't access it readily because otherwise we would go crazy or we would die. I mean, imagine if you were traumatized. Look at trauma survivors who've, you know, endured horrific whatever as children, people who've been trafficked.

or terrible things, right? They don't walk around with that front showing all the time. I mean, maybe they do if they're really not in a good place. But for many of us who've been, you know, I'm an abuse survivor and I just, it doesn't come out until it comes out. And when it comes out, it's not great. But for the most part, I'm like, well, I have to deal with the world. So-

The body just turns it into pain, like physical somehow, you know, and it gets locked away until you either deal with it or maybe you. And there's other people who would argue that you don't deal with it. You learn to mitigate your nervous system so that when those things come up, you can process them through you. Probably a combination.

Yeah, you don't necessarily have to sit there and talk it through because often when you talk about it, you're just ingraining it further into the deeper nether regions of your brain. You're hardwiring it harder versus learning how to feel where it lands in your body and what your nervous system's doing and what tools do you have available to you to process through that? What have you found to be the highest impact or longest lever tools to process internalized trauma?

I think the actual just overall static load of stress in someone's life is really the linchpin. If people are chronically stressed, they're stressed at work, they're stressed with their family, they're just stressed, right? We can get cortisol resistance just like we get insulin resistance. We can get resistance to any signaling peptide hormone or any steroid hormone for that matter, anything that has a receptor, we can get resistance to. And so

I think that just allostatic stress load that people carry, if we can overall help them reduce that, then the other parts tend to start taking care of themselves. But as the stress goes up, so does the physical pain. So does the emotional pain. So does the pathologic behaviors and all that jazz. So does the chasing the dopamine dragon thing.

The habits, right? The bad habits, the vices we have. So I think just helping people overall look at their lives. And I've had to tell people that were in chronic pain in my office, like your job is literally killing you and you hate it or you hate your husband. You hate your husband so much and you're in chronic pain and you,

like you have to end some of these relationships. I mean, some relationships had to end during the past few years, right? Over all of that. And I found it to be quite cathartic. There were people that I was entertaining in my life that I just never really liked. And it was real easy. They called me terrible names for telling them the truth of what was going on. And I was like, I never actually liked you. Okay, bye.

You know, and it just made it really clear. And I think just my journey has been as a total cortisol addict, admittedly, and I came out that way. I had my mom was very stressed during her pregnancy. That changes the way my brain responds to cortisol. And so I seek it out. I get really calm when things get really stressful, but then I bubble over my tolerance for it is zero.

as I age gets worse and worse. So for me, it's been a journey. I shut down my practice in 2018, started the process of getting rid of my big practice. So now I just have, you know, a few choice patients that I take care of, got rid of my clinic, got rid of, thank God. Cause I was in Oregon and that would have been a total shit show in 2020. I would not have been dealing with that. I would have shut it down then anyway. A lot of people did. Bend wasn't too bad. Bend, Oregon. No, Bend was, Bend was like a free. Bend was pretty chill. Yeah. We just went to kayak and freaking go for hikes. Like,

Portland was not chill. Portland was not, it's still not chill. It's bizarre. It's bizarre zombie apocalypse land, but just the overall, and then I moved out to the country with my husband, like just the overall reduction of stress as a whole, I think has significantly impacted my stress levels. And then I, you know, I pushed back really hard.

really hard and I was politically targeted. I had my merchant services shut off. I had death threats, like my board, well, I shouldn't say my board, I was constantly being reported to my board by my colleagues. My whole profession came after me, which was really weird. Like naturopathic physicians, you think that was so bizarre. And my stress levels went through the roof

and all my autoimmune disease came roaring back and all my pain came roaring back. So it's definitely, I think the biggest needle mover for people in chronic pain is to have a good look at their life and figure out where can they start cutting things out or dealing with the massive stressors that they're entertaining.

People are addicted to it. How does a person break their addiction to stress? Again, this is where I think movement is very helpful because it's a different stressor. I think of hormetic stressors as like these beautiful, if done correctly and done, you know, within the confines of it being safe, that they're brilliant ways of giving the body the hit.

it needs and then you rest the body. So, you know, heavy lifting or the cold plunges or sauna or any of these things that put you into a hormetic stress load for it's controlled, you can control the variables on it, is a really brilliant way to allow the body to get that sort of like, ah, I got my hit

And then I can go, now I have to learn to rest and recover. That rest and recovery phase is probably more important. And that's where walking comes in. That's where community comes in. There's a drumming circle in my little town that I live in that I keep wanting to go to, but it's a bunch of old people and people make fun of me for wanting to go. But I just feel like that would be so cool to like drum in a huge community of people or being outside in nature, you know, just finding ways to get out of your fricking head and your misery that you're addicted to. Mm-hmm.

And drumming is really powerful as well because it's, I don't remember. There's a bunch of research on this that I was enamored by like years ago. So I don't remember exactly what it is now, but a big part of it is the attunement and a big, it's a similar thing that happens with like when you go to a church or you get like a choir or you go to like a, a concert, you know, yeah, a concert or anything like that where people are, we're all doing the wave together or we're,

We're all singing together. We're all harmonizing together. Any of that stuff, the togetherness, it takes a person out of the, that kind of like solipistic, lonely experience of it's just me against the world type thing. And which is coming from a place of feeling like, uh,

You know, or coming from a place of scarcity. That's why suddenly the spotlight goes back into the self because it's like the self is so disoriented and dysregulated. The self needs to figure the self out. And now you're in a self-perpetuating spiral where you start pushing relationships away and you start pushing movement away and you start pushing all the things that actually heal you. I've been there. I've totally been there.

Everybody has. I do different iterations of that on a daily, weekly basis. It's a little different than probably a lot of people's. That's why I was saying I love concerts because you get that and you don't have to talk to anybody. You can just go be. You can move and dance. I think the crowds at concerts really matter. So concerts in Portland now, they've sucked for a long time because the crowd generally sucks.

but concerts in like i went to a concert in boise and it was amazing you know it was outdoor everybody was healthy and beautiful and vital and just like so much vitality in the crowd and

That was a great venue and that was a great crowd. So it could be the best band in the world, but I went and saw Nine Inch Nails at an outdoor venue in Portland and the crowd just sucked. So, cause it's just so Portland, Portland just sucks so much. I'm not even gonna, I'm not even ashamed to say it. I was just like, everybody was unhealthy and it was just like a bunch of old aging, alcoholic, industrial kids. It was just-

- Yeah, not you. - Yeah, yeah, it just was so bizarre. But I, yeah, I mean, the crowd you're with matters, the people you're with matters. They say you become the five people you surround yourself with, but mirror neurons matter. People's microbiomes are contagious. All of these things matter. So who you choose-- - Watch out for the salads you toss. That's what I always say. Do you know salad tossing? Do you know that as a reference? - Yeah. - You do know what that is? - Yeah. - You really do. - I do.

- If you don't know, you could look it up. - No, I do know. But even just the people you hang out with, like just the people you choose to live with. I know we can't all choose who we live with, but if, you know, they talk about communicable diseases and non-communicable diseases. And so, you know, for the audience listening, communicable diseases are things that are contagious that we know of like COVID or the flu or,

a cold or whatever. Non-communicable diseases are things like heart disease and type 2 diabetes and obesity. There's energetic diseases. Well, those are contagious though. I mean, I would say that every disease is an energetic disease. Yeah, but non-communicable, you know, categorized non-communicable diseases are

are quite literally contagious via people's microbiome. If you live with someone with heart disease, your chances of eventually developing heart disease are pretty damn high, probably energetically as well as microbiome, but like this shit's contagious too. So who you choose to spend time with. So if you're,

miserable and you're surrounding yourself with other miserable people and that's your whole life plus if you fight with your partner I remember when I was in school still and I saw this guy Dr. Alex Vasquez brilliant guy he was speaking at a conference and he was showing data that if you

are fighting with somebody you are inflamed for like three to five hours and you're immunosuppressed for three to five hours so imagine you're living with someone you can't stand and you guys fight every three to four hours you're chronically immunocompromised and you're chronically inflamed and I literally went home and got divorced I went home and I was like I'm done with this marriage that I was in I

I was like, that was enough for me to convince me I had to get out because I was chronically sick. I had pneumonia all the time. I was miserable. I was skin and bones. And everyone's running labs and doing procedures to me. And I'm flying all over to all these great doctors. And I had access to everything. And I was like, oh, I'm just in a super shitty marriage. Could a Zempic cure a shitty marriage? No.

Ozempic cannot cure these things. I'm just talking about tools in the tool belt. And it's a comprehensive, like we don't use any peptide alone. We don't use any hormone alone. We don't use any therapy alone. It's part of a comprehensive program. I just think that sometimes we have big levers that we can pull and

That may give somebody the leg up they need. It may be the icing on the cake to kind of sweeten the deal. But all these other things you and I are talking about are the non-negotiables, no matter what you're using. Good times. Yeah.

I'm a naturopathic doctor. What, where could people go from here to go deeper into your work and the things that you offer? Well, I have a podcast called the Dr. Tina Show. I would love if you would come on my podcast. I'd love that. Yeah. We could do it virtual for real. I'm up for whatever. Whatever we do. Yeah.

Oh, today I thought this full disclosure, I thought this conversation was a remote conversation. So I was at my house in my remote studio and then I looked deeper into the schedule and then I raced over to the studio studio. And now here we are. I flew out here for you. I know. I appreciate it. Also, I have information on my website. I have a

a bunch of podcast episodes I've done breaking down just different data around GLP-1s that are really interesting on different topics. And then I have a free four-part video series for people that they can find on my website at drtina.com. And I'm on YouTube and Instagram and all the places. It's D-R-T-Y-N-A. You think I should try Ozempic? I don't know. I would need to know what you would want to use it for. I guess that's the better question is like, why do people want to use it? There are some people in the biohacking community that are just...

using it for longevity, kind of like people take metformin for longevity. I mean, if it chills me out, I'd try it. I think it's worth it. You know, it can actually overstimulate some, some people get anxiety on it, but I do think the dose matters. So for me, a little bit too much gives me anxiety. The right dose makes me feel really clear headed. So, and does it, I've heard you talk about and listen to other conversations with you that it can reduce

muscle mass or like lean body mass. And the suggestion that I heard you say was something along the lines of like reducing adipose or fat within muscles, which obviously if a person is eating less calories, that would start to eventually the body would start to pull from all tissues, including muscle. If you're not eating enough calories to sustain your present body type. It's a low calorie. It's a calorie deficit that people are going into in extreme cases, which is any low calorie diet.

is going to put people into losing lean muscle or losing lean mass, period. So those studies are on lean mass. Muscle is but part of your overall lean mass. And I think that what people don't understand is that these peptides have a healing regenerative property in the muscles too. So they help with angiogenesis in the muscles. They almost have an anabolic impact. Angiogenesis being stimulation of blood vessels. Yes.

So they almost have an anabolic impact on the muscles when done properly. It's people who are, I think people are dosing too high, too fast. I do think the medical community is starting to catch on since I've been trying to get this message out everywhere. Like we're talking two different types of people that might benefit from it. You know, in your case, you're very lean and fit and muscular. And so a tiny little dose, but over here in the folks that really do have pathology, I still don't think they need to be going as high and as fast as they are. We don't need to crush people's appetite. We don't need to drop them into muscle loss. None of that's necessary. Uh,

you know prioritizing your muscle mass is always the most important whether you're on a glp1 or not period if you want to age well as a woman especially if you're a skinny white girl these these gals that are going into bone thin ozempic land are going to be in a heap of shit when they're in their 50s like this is not going to go well i'm like enjoy your broken hip because that's what's coming if you don't take care of if your muscle so the issues with the like the

cautions around taking something like ozempic would probably be more the dietary decisions that you make as a product of reducing your hunger and if you're eating 12 oreos each day and you're like cool i'm not even that hungry and i'm tearing off all this weight that will create issues just the way if you just generally stop started starving yourself and eating a crappy diet anyway

Yeah, well put. That's very accurate. And I think that most women don't appreciate the importance long term. They don't look at the weed as humans. Again, you know, we're short sighted as humans. We don't look at the long game. And the long game of this is having good insurance in your on your body going into your older years. That's what I'm always thinking about is like, how do I be vital at 80? You know, how do I have a good libido and be able to

you know hike and be active and do all the things i want to do and run through the airport and go have fun with my husband that's muscle mass right that's long term because your muscles your bones and your joints are bffs and when people have chronic joint issues they probably have sarcopenia and lack of muscle mass and when people have osteoporosis they have sarcopenia and lack of muscle mass it's all frailty at the end of the day so everything we do we do to prioritize and protect that if we're going to use a peptide

that could potentially impact our appetite to the point where we're not eating and not making the best food choices, then you're gonna have a problem down the line. I do think that there's a real risk if we're gonna slow gastric motility and somebody sitting on the edge of gallstone issues that you have to be careful. That doesn't mean they're not a contender for the peptide, it means they have to work

closely with a good doctor to make sure they're just being, you know, just what's your risk tolerance, go slow and low, be careful with like with any medication, FYI, you know, like we never prescribe and just say, hey, bye to our patients. Like a good doctor is going to be checking in with somebody and a good patient is going to come back frequently. The other risks, though, I think have been really blown out of proportion and the data coming out around things like thyroid cancer, pancreatic cancer, gastroparesis.

it's just not there. The longest term data we have, it's just not showing that those are real concerns. The reason we have the black box warning on Ozempic for thyroid cancer was studies done in rats where they were given crazy high doses of

super physiologic doses and they developed a rare form of thyroid cancer that rats and mice tend to develop readily and it's very rare in humans and the control group of those rats also got the same type of cancer and they put a black box warning on it and you know interesting there's not a black box warning on the current intervention that was mandated and going around the past few years but some rats get thyroid cancer and that's like headline news about ozempic that

I think that was the other part that really drove me was like after 2021 and the shit that went down with that, I was like, wait a minute, we're not going to talk about this big elephant in the room and what's happening with this, but we're going to vilify Ozempic. Like what's happening here. Something is, that's what got me typing on the keyboard and going down the rabbit hole of research. Cause I was like, so what is, who's behind, who's behind this push to vilify this and why? Well, I appreciate you. Thank you. I really do this conversation. Thank you. I,

Anything else to finalize, close out before wrapping this piece up? Well, just know that at the end of the day, you know, no one's coming to save you and your health is your responsibility and it's nobody else's. We have tools, but they're just tools and you still have to do all the work no matter what. And that work can be all the things we talked about. Really, I think we hit them all pretty well. You know, don't rely on a shot every week to, it's not your savior. Yeah, I really like the idea of

I mean, this is cliche and I'm almost embarrassed to say it, but like the idea of responsible, like I am able to respond.

And something I feel very strongly about is anytime I notice myself or someone around me, I have like a an allergen to victimhood. And anytime there's there's some kind of story of like, you made me feel this way. You did this to me, you know, any of that stuff. It's like just I think know that what's happening within that it's like a temporary balm to relief the sensation. But it's I think it's also creating like a stoppage or a stasis to be able to grow through that.

and so just like taking an audit of where in my life am i pointing the finger out into like oh no they did this to me that's their fault that's that and just like experimenting or tinkering with what would it be like if i just anytime i did that i just reversed it even if i don't believe it like what would it be like if i just reversed it of like i brought this person into my life there was some subconscious knowing within me that was probably attracted or resonant

to that person. And then I did that to myself through that person. Yeah. Amen. Please go tell that to my daughter.

I hear that. Yeah. Well, we, we, I think we invite the lessons we need to learn, right? It's just a journey and people are there along the way to help us through that journey. And sometimes we have to repeatedly learn the lesson. I don't know what it is. Yeah. But I think, I think, or I feel that the, that the accelerated version of actually growing through those lessons, I think,

is leaning into how did I create this? Where is my part in this? And if you are, or if one is in that place of, oh, cool, this is my creation, then suddenly you place yourself into a place of empowerment to be able to create change. As long as a person is living and existing in a place of they did this to me, it's fine because it acts as like a temporary anesthetic, but the anesthetic doesn't actually treat the root issue. Yes, I agree. Well said. Thanks.

All right. That's it. That's all. Thank you all for tuning in. I'll see you next week. Hope you guys enjoyed that conversation. Once again, I want to invite you over to the live podcast YouTube channel. Subscribe over there for a chance to win some sweet prizes at the end of each month. Thanks for reviews. Thanks for sharing this with your friends. If you find it worth sharing, thank you for doing you. I will see you next week.