725. Unlock Financial Freedom with THIS Money Mindset Hack with Tori Dunlap, Her First 100k
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Welcome to the Almost 30 Podcast. I'm Lindsay. And I'm Krista. And we're your hosts, guides, and friends on this path. Almost 30 is not about your age. It's about the feeling. All of us are almost something, seeking community and resources to support the rumblings of transformation within us. Our conversations are deep dives, shepherded by our insatiable curiosity and desire for connection, enduring inspiration, and a sense of levity that we can all benefit from.

We're looking to find the magic in the human experience. Buckle up, baby. Your evolution is waiting. Hello and welcome to Almost 30 Podcast. Hi, everybody. It's Lindsay and Krista. We're glad you're here. We are together here in New York. If you're new to the pod, welcome. We've been doing this for almost nine years now. I think that's accurate. I think it's eight. I feel like we can move it. Almost nine. But it's 2016. It's 2020.

24, almost 9, and 20, 25. So that's eight. Yeah. That's true. I feel like you've been saying eight for three years. I don't want to get it to be longer. I don't. It doesn't look. I think it looks less cool the longer we say it. What a relief.

So the more years I'm like, I'm like, it's been one year. Can you believe it? Can you believe what we built? It's been a miracle. This one year thing. Um, we're two best friends who started the podcast when we were almost 30 talking about all the things we were going through during that interesting transition. When your prefrontal cortex is coming online, your Saturn return is happening. There's a lot of change in your life. Um,

and we did talk a lot about finances for a few years on the podcast. So today's episode with Tori Dunlap, the financial feminist, her first hundred K, an amazing business woman will be great. Cause we get kind of a refresher and talk about more modern things as it relates to finance. Um, but it was interesting. I was having a conversation with a friend the other day and she is really high up at a really great company, like super successful, super creative. She's single right now. She's traveling, she's doing all the things. Um,

And we were talking about how right now it's like the women that we know, the women in our community, a lot of the women listening are just creating totally new templates for the existence of women on earth. Like women that are working, women that are spiritually evolved, women that are doing a lot of the facilitation of healing for their relationships and their partners. And it's just like, I think...

It really struck me because I think I overlook where I think that there are people to look up to that are doing what we've done, but there aren't really. I'm not saying that there aren't at all. Of course there are. But it's like we actually don't have that many examples of women that are working full time that are still on their spiritual path, that have successful family relationship dynamics that are like oftentimes the breadwinners. Almost all my friends are breadwinners. So it's just, yeah, it was just really...

interesting for me to think about because I haven't thought about that before. I feel like we've had a bunch of readings in the past that have kind of alluded to the idea of being like new paradigm shifters and how it might be frustrating that you feel like you don't have anyone to look to and or the path isn't like perfectly...

perfectly laid out, but yeah, I completely agree. And I think, you know, in a, in a way, like when we entered podcasting, there was, yeah, there was men podcasting. There was a few female podcasters by a few, I'm exaggerating, but I think we were one of, one of the first. And so, um,

So much of our journey early on was really head down and like doing what felt good and doing what excited us, what felt creative and innovative and really heart-led and community-led. And it, yeah, the pod grew like so quickly. And I think so much of that was because we like trusted that and didn't look for how do we do this? Like what's the right way to do it? Yeah. Yeah.

Cause I, and I think about like, I guess my mom was working full time when she was raising us. I think that generation was started to be the mothers that really were working full time. But now I think women are sort of figuring out what they want to do in the balance. There's a lot more women working from home. There's a lot more women that are working online, like using their creative endeavors to make money online, which is so amazing. Like the fact that

you know, they're like, women should stay home. And then women are making like $8 million a year on their Instagram is so insane and baller. And just, yeah, the, as the new paradigm shifts to, to more women, um,

in power or positions of power having more money it's like also navigating that shift to the dynamics and relationships with a lot of people I mean in the conversation with Tori she talked about how she's the breadwinner in her family um with her partner and sort of how that looks and what that looks like and we did talk a lot about those sort of shifting dynamics within men and women right now because so many more women are making so much more money do you feel like it's

Because we recently had a conversation about the masculine or you had a conversation in an interview, but do you feel like it overlaps? Meaning does the masculine, is it dissolved? Like how does that work in that like dynamic? Yeah, that's a great question. Like as the feminine rises, what's happening to the other? Because I guess if they're always balancing each other out, I'm not really sure. But it's interesting to think about like men also having...

kind of healing around feeling like they need to be the breadwinner. Yeah. Doesn't mean they can't make money. Doesn't mean they can't be, um, you know, focused on their work, et cetera. But I feel like that's also a wound that men have to being the provider and having that be a lot of pressure. It's almost like women have this wound of like, I'm only worthy if,

these things and men it's like I'm only worthy if I'm the provider or I am making the money or I am successful in my work and I think women have different things with that I'm only worthy if I'm everyone likes me I'm only worthy if I'm thin I'm only worthy if I'm pretty I'm only worthy if I'm whatever the you know the things for each woman has but yeah I do think there is some

healing there for that because there's like the natural inclination for men to provide and protect from an energetic, but then there's like, I'm only worthy if I'm doing this thing. And, and this is my only path of my expression. I think for a lot of men, their only path to expression is their work. And women have more, I think culturally we're given more paths to expression with creativity, with fashion, with like our connection with other people, like

We kind of have that option. I don't think men are really allowed to express creatively outside of anything outside of their career. It's like whatever they're doing creatively, if they do anything, has to make them money. Or if they do anything creatively, it's if their professional life sees it, it's like, well, why aren't you putting that energy and time into work? Yes. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. It's fascinating. I've seen like just, I've been just kind of digesting the what's happening in

in the motherhood space too, where it's like, are people, I've seen moms get so creative with how they're making money, you know, making freaking $10,000 on Amazon by like doing reviews. Yes. I know. Yes. Things like that, that don't take a lot of time. And then they're not on the opposite end of the spectrum. Just another approach is I'm reading this book being there and it's how, um,

being there for your child, fully leaning into motherhood for the first three years is incredibly impactful. And I've just come to terms with, and maybe people do it better than I do, but I don't think you can do it all really well at all. So it's like a constant juggle. So I'm curious to see how it evolves, especially, you know, um, as women kind of

have their hand on what like job and family really look like. I think they have a more conscious approach and I think there could be not necessarily a balance, but a way in which they could feel fulfilled. They could provide and also be there for their children, you know? Yeah. Cause men don't really win when they're not home with their kids either. For sure. You know, they want to be home more than they are. So it's like the pressure to provide and then also wanting to be with the kids more. Yeah.

So, so in this conversation with Tori, it was good because we did talk a lot about relationship dynamics as it relates to money, especially in this changing times. I also brought up what I think people know, but it's like men and women are struggling both equally because of the current economic climate. You know, she would call it the patriarchy, but it's like the current economic climate is just creating so much pressure for everybody. Like no one's really winning. Both people have to work extremely hard to make money.

you know, a living, a stable living. Like both people aren't around their kids because they have to work hard to live, you know, and it's just kind of an environment that doesn't set up people to win. So we talked about that too. We talked about who should pay on the first date, how you should handle the split of finances within relationships.

We talked about what being a financial feminist means. We talked about some of the trends that we're seeing on TikTok in the finance space. And I felt like it was such a good conversation. I just loved talking to her. She has such a great energy. She's super cool, super successful. And her company is just incredible. Again, it's Her First 100K, which is a financial education company aimed at young women. And she wrote the book Financial Feminist.

overcoming the patriarchy's bullshit to master your money and build a life that you love. You can find her work at herfirst100k.com or on Instagram at herfirst100k. I love herfirst100k. I know. Let's go. She got that handle. I know. I love.

I love. All right. Thanks, Tori. We appreciate you. Enjoy this conversation. If this resonated with you, share it with a friend. This is always a great way to start conversations in your community with friends, family, and to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at almost 30 podcast. Yeah. Morning microdose for our clip show. It is five to 10 minutes of the best of the best of almost 30. It is available wherever you listen to podcasts and we'll see you on the other side. Bye. Bye.

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I'm so excited to have you. Thank you. I feel like we haven't had a money conversation in a long time. And I was so grateful to talk to you before about this because I think there's, from my perspective, sometimes a few ways to go in money conversations. And

I'm always someone that wants to go to the root, like the reasoning why, the mindset behind things, because we can do, you know, the practices and principles all day. We can tell people what to do. But if people actually aren't motivated to do it, if they're actually not going to do it, if they're going to self-sabotage, then nothing's going to happen. And I find that so much within social media and even the money space, there's so much information available, but it's obviously not getting to the place where people are taking action on it. So

I'm excited to talk about mindset and all those types of things. But I'd love to hear from your perspective right now, culturally, or what are you seeing in the world and landscape as it relates to women and money today? Yeah.

It's really funny you bring up the, you know, going to the actionable steps because I literally say that in my book where I'm like, I can teach you to budget all day long. I can teach you how debt works. I can teach you, you know, what a Roth IRA is and how to invest it. But like, if you don't understand your financial trauma, the narratives you've been believing, what's going on in your brain and body, like as woo-woo as it sounds, like you're going to self-sabotage. It's not going to work. And that was my experience. I used to do one-on-one money coaching with people. Yeah.

You know, I would sit down at the coffee shop and we'd go over and I was always like, okay, here's how you budget. Because I would get to, you know, the actionable stuff, which I love. And then they'd come back to me six months later and be like, okay, I was good for like three months. And then I fucked myself over. So I love that we're talking about it. Landscape for women and money right now. I mean...

I don't, I'm not an economist. We could talk about the economy if you want it, but it's kind of boring. It's just like, everybody feels like shit's awful. Even if shit on paper is not that bad. Like you hear a lot of conversation right now of like, okay, you know, inflation's going down, unemployment's down. But I think all of us feel really, really stressed about money. And I think it's a larger conversation, um,

that I try to have in my book, in our work about how personal finances for many, many years, Ben, your own individual choices, right? Personal finance was, again, do you know how to budget? Are you managing money responsibly? And if you're not rich, you're not working hard enough, or you don't know the right things, or you're not doing the right things.

personal finance though is about 20% your personal choices and 80% systemic issues, racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, a trillion dollar student debt crisis, right? Stagnating minimum wages, lack of paid family leave, all of the things that have a much bigger impact on our money than our own individualized experiences. So I think, um,

Just having that as a realization for people can be so helpful knowing, oh, this is not all my fault and these are all things that are also outside of my control. So how do we control the things we can control and start to work to change everything else? Yeah, I think that's powerful and that's what I've been thinking about a lot lately is

And this isn't something I want to talk about, but it's just something I want to bring up what I've been thinking about in the context of relationships where there's this like power struggle between men and women right now, say we're in heterosexual relationship and there's the struggle that men and women are having. And there's this constant pressure over them looming around capitalism where the men want to take a break and the women want to take a break, but both are unable to kind of why we have the trad wife movement and many say more, but

I am good capital F feminist. And yet I look at these videos and I'm like, sounds nice. Like, okay, I just get to roll out my dough and make my little Cheerios. Then I get to like, it sounds idyllic. It sounds lovely. And, and yet at the same time, if you know, feminism one-on-one, we don't rely on a man. We don't rely on them to, you know, support ourselves because then we get trapped in situations we don't want to be in. But I think we're all just tired. We're just fucking,

getting tired. And so it's like something about that even for me where of course I would never have that happen. Of course I would never do that. I'm like, let's be nice. That's the whole thing. I think

And that was what I think about. I think both men and women want a fucking break. Yes. Men too. That's capitalism. Exactly. So it's like that undercurrent theme of like being pushed to the brim where people are working so much. They're not feeling like they're able to have a break where women now are wanting to be stay at home. They're wanting to rest. So when you say the feminism 101 is not relying on a man like

Say more about that because that was something I was definitely taught from a young age. You know, my parents divorced. My mom was like always like, have your own money, have your own thing. And I have always done that. That's always been really worked for me. And then there's a part of it where I'm like, will I ever be at a place where I feel like I trust a man enough or I feel safe enough with a man to actually rely on him? Like, how do you find that balance where it's like, I don't want to be always in a place of like, I'm never going to trust them, but I also want to be smart.

I don't think it's you don't trust them. I think it's understanding that you always...

regardless of whether it's a romantic relationship or a job or your company, you need an exit. Yeah. You need a fuck off plan. Right. And I think, um, we don't want to talk about that because it doesn't sound sexy. It's like, no, I'll love this person forever. But the truth is, it's like, whether it is something as serious as domestic abuse, 99% of domestic domestically violent relationships have some sort of financial abuse tied to them.

And when you hear a stat like that, okay, money's control, money's power, money is flexibility and choices and options. So, you know, whether it's something that serious or that intense, or it's just, I want to be able to spend some of my money on things that I find fun, but my partner doesn't get right. Like you always, one of my only hard and fast rules when it comes to money is you always need some of your own money. You should never completely combine your finances.

It's not about trust. It's not about like, oh, if I really loved this person, it would be, you know, it wouldn't be yours, mine. It would be ours all the time. And it's like, no, it doesn't have to be that. And I want to be in a relationship with somebody because I

they know I want to be there, not I'm forced to be in it because I don't have another option. Totally. So I think that it's not about trust. It's not about, you know, I rely on my partner for many things and it's not, you know, complete independence and, you know, fuck this person and fuck their needs. And like, I'm going to do my own thing. It's more the understanding that

both of you need some of your own money for a healthy relationship that is always a choice, not an absolute necessity. I love that. I love that answer. I want to go back a little bit to the mindset piece because, and then we can talk more about relationship dynamics, but I think the mindset piece is so important. So I've seen that a lot too with the women that I coach where it's like,

We know all the things, but there is something that is stopping us from actually having consistent action, consistent change in our life. So in the case of money, what are some of the stories or what are some of the beliefs that really keep people from feeling financially secure or free? This is my bread and butter. I love this question. Okay. So we all know the first one, which is talking about money is taboo.

It's gauche. It's impolite, right? We shouldn't talk about our salary. We shouldn't talk about how much money we have. We are more likely statistically to talk about any other uncomfortable topic. We'll talk about sex, death, politics, religion. We'll talk about anything else before we talk about money. But this narrative of talking about money is taboo. It's gauche. It's impolite. It keeps us underpaid and overworked because we don't know.

That Chad, who got hired two years after us and has the same qualifications we do, makes 20% more than us. And not talking about money means that we feel really alone and isolated when we have debt, not knowing that every single person sitting around that table

at dinner also has debt and also feel shame about it. When we talk about money, we feel all of that emotion of, again, shame and anxiety and fear as opposed to starting to become more transparent with the people in our lives and with ourselves. So that is just a bullshit narrative that's just meant to keep you playing small.

So one of the easiest things we can do to start overcoming that narrative is having conversations about money. Now it doesn't have to be, you know, like interrogator light, like how much do you make a year? Right. What's your exact salary? It can just be like, Hey, I feel a lot of, I'm really stressed about paying off my student loans. Do you feel that way too? Or I got to raise at work. That's talking about money. Hey, can we go out to celebrate? Right. So just starting to incorporate those conversations is really, really crucial. Uh,

Second narrative that I hate is that money can't buy you happiness. I'm sorry, it 100% can. Like money can buy you safety and stability and ease. And yes, if I...

expect a Porsche to fix all of my problems. Of course, that's not going to work. But for the average person, like money does solve almost all the problems you have. And I would argue that like choices and freedom and flexibility is happiness. And a version of this narrative that I see for women especially is that wanting money is bad. Yeah. Right. Wanting money, the pursuit of wealth is bad.

wrong. It's morally corrupt. It's wrong. I shouldn't want money. I shouldn't want to be rich. And then you feel guilty for it. This one is just so pervasive, especially for like business owners or especially for people who, you know, are trying to go in and ask for more money. I don't want a stack of government issued paper. That doesn't get me anything, right? I want the choices that money offers me and the flexibility that money offers me. And it's not

corrupt money is money has no inherent value, moral value. It is neutral. What you do with it is then where the morality kicks in, right? We see plenty of people who have tons of money, who make horribly terrible decisions for the environment and for the planet and for people. And we also see people with money doing really cool things. So the pursuit of money is

is not inherently bad. And in fact, we worship men for the pursuit of money and we actively demonize women for pursuing money. And that is a larger societal narrative where as soon as you start getting financially confident, as soon as you start making a decent salary and negotiating and showing up, the patriarchy panics because it realizes you're no longer controllable.

And for your entire life, you've been controllable because you haven't had your own money or you haven't had enough money to make your own decisions or you believe that money in the pursuit of it is bad. You were controllable because you had to stay in situations you didn't want to be in anymore and you had to play the game and sit down and keep your head down and just keep working and maybe somebody will notice you. But when you have money and you start to pursue it,

the patriarchy goes, oh shit. And so then you start getting the comments or the, uh, you know, commentary from people like, well, why are you asking for more money? You should just be grateful. Or,

Or, which I'm sure you hear all the time, why are you charging for your services? If you really loved it, you'll just do it for free, which is like a good chunk of my Instagram comments. That's just surprising for you because it being in finance. Yeah, but it's the internet. Yeah, that's so true. I was like, for me, because I'm in more spirituality and wellness, it's more like, you should because it's like spirituality. But I'd be like, I'm a money girl. I'm going to charge. No, and that's always my answer. It's like, it's contrary to my...

whole ethos. My whole life. If I give everything away for you for free. Literally. And again, like no, nobody's gone to a male doctor and been like, if you just love that. So all of these narratives are meant to keep you playing small, are meant to keep you broke and are meant to keep you from realizing your own power. And so again, even as you're progressing, as you start to debunk a lot of these things that I talk about in my work and the book, it's

the patriarchy panics because it realizes you're no longer controllable and then tries to like last dish efforts, get you to fall back in line, which, which is all of those comments of like, you should just be grateful. Why do you want more money? Don't you have enough? And it's like, money is our best form of protest as women. No,

Having a financial education is our best form of protest because in a society that constantly disenfranchises us and constantly tries to keep us playing small, when you have money, you have those options. And nothing bad happens when women have more money.

We're extremely generous. We take care of ourselves and our friends and our communities. We throw money at causes we believe in. We start businesses to give people jobs. Like nothing bad happens when women have money. And so for everybody listening out there, I need you to know that like money is,

does buy happiness, talking about money as one of the most radical things you can do, and pursuing money is not bad, it means you want options and choices. And don't we all want that? Yeah. Let's talk about that. The money buys happiness. So like, what was your journey to money changing your view and experience? Oh, I graduated college in 2016. Mm-hmm.

I majored in organizational communication and theater. Did not study. Obsessed. Finance. Did not even technically discover business. Yeah. And I thought I was going to work my way up the corporate ladder and say my little briefcase. I'm going to stomp around in my stilettos. Literally stomp the pavement. And I'm like, I've never worn a pencil skirt in my life. Why is this a fantasy? I was so excited. Yep. I was like, vice president is my goal.

Oh, yeah. I want to be VP of marketing by 30. Uh-huh. And I'm turning 30 this year. And that's... So, yeah. Graduated college in 2016. And I think I am coming to adulthood and really into womanhood in a country with a first female president. Obviously not what happened. So...

I'm 22 and Donald Trump's president. And I'm just trying to figure out like, what kind of person do I want to be? And what do I stand for? And it really radicalized me. And, um, I was the friend, all of my friends were coming to for advice and guidance around money because I had a really great financial education from my parents, but I thought that was normal.

Because that was my lived experience. Everybody knows not to overspend on credit cards. Everybody knows how to save money. And of course, I realized that wasn't the case. And so I was the personal finance expert for my other women friends. And as I started doing that, I was also in my own life realizing, okay, I have this emergency fund. It's not a crazy amount of money, but it's like a couple months of living expenses that

oh, this job turns really sour and I'm getting weird sexist things said to me and I don't want to be here anymore. Great. I can quit without even another job lined up because I have a little bit of runway. And oh, when I have money, I'm able to support the kind of causes and people and policies that I believe in. And when I have money, oh, I can start the side hustle in 2016, which is

now a multimillion dollar business that has 5 million followers and a New York times bestselling book and a number one podcast. Like that was the impetus for a lot of, of course, the broader education around money for, for the public and for, you know, past my friends. But it was also realizing when I had money, I had those choices and options and,

And so in 2019, I rebranded the company to her first 100K. And it was my pursuit of trying to save 100K at 25. I successfully achieved that goal. And then literally three weeks later was on Good Morning America, quit my job. And now everything is what it is now, which is

My favorite thing in this entire world is fighting for women's financial rights and educating women about money because it's not this niche issue. Like personal finance is not, you know, it's not nerdy. It's not about numbers. It's not about graphs and charts. If you want anything in life, you need money. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. I think, yes, which is, again, so that was... And your story of just love. And I had a... My first job, I had a sexual assault case with my boss. And so that was a lot of the reason why I left. But... We all have a version of that story. And that's like... Oh, my God. Girl... It's, again, why, like, women having money is so powerful. Because you don't have to put up with shit. The managing director was a woman who interviewed me. It was so judgmental. It was so crazy. It was just a crazy thing. It was such a learning. I'm just...

Yeah. It never ceases to amaze me. Like the experience of a woman and all of the ways in which that I've been made to feel uncomfortable or made to feel whatever. Yep. It's a whole nother bag. But, you know, so in just kind of pulling back again, the experience, because I know people are going to be like, money doesn't buy happiness, da, da, da. But with money buying happiness, I think my experience was

Money has bought me like a fluidity to life that like is really and like a piece that is really hard to match without it. Yeah. Like you're able to the ability to say yes.

And the ability to say no. Is provided with money. Yeah. Yeah. When I say money can't buy happiness, again, I don't mean, okay, I am deeply depressed and unhappy. And this, again, Porsche or insert like brand new apartment or big house is going to solve all my problems. The freedom and choice buys happiness, not the material good. Yes. It's the flexibility. It's the, I mean, if we really want to talk granular, like a lot of the stuff I, you know, talk about in my book is it's like how money affects women differently. Right.

For many years, and it's still a lot of the personal finance advice, right? It's like scrimp and save and hate your life. Yeah. Right. And the interesting thing is when you look up like personal finance advice for men, it's actually really great advice. It's like invest in the stock market, negotiate your salary, start businesses. For women, the advice is not expand. It's not do more, right? Or think more strategically. It's scrimp

And hate your life. Deprive or restrict, right? And so it's... Don't spend as much. Yeah. The reason you're not rich is because you get your hair blown out and you get a manicure and you buy lattes, which is, again, so gendered and so sexist. It's also bad advice because, yeah, let's say I cut out everything fun from my life.

well, at the end of the day, I still have to pay my rent. I still have to buy groceries. I still have to buy insurance. I still have to, you know, if you have children, take your kids to daycare, like you can only scrimp so much. So not only is the advice we're getting just terrible, but in addition, everything that's deemed frivolous, right? Oh, the frivolous spending. It is not NFL season tickets. It's not golf clubs. It's not video games. It's things that are

stereotypically feminine. The latte. So real. The manicure, right? The designer purse or whatever. And so there is something so powerful about being able to have enough money to say, not only am I going to, you know, have these joyful experiences and I don't have to think about, is my check going to clear in order to have this experience? But also you get to start being strategic. You get to start playing

a different kind of game when you have money because you don't have to worry about, Oh my gosh, I'm so stressed again. Where's my next paycheck coming from? Or, uh, I, I had three lattes this week and it's going to make me broke. And it's just like, no, it's, it's, there's something again, so powerful about a woman standing in her own power, about having her own money, about getting to say yes or say no and make strategic decisions that men have been making for centuries and

Like that's the feeling I want because you and I have that feeling. And let me tell you straight to cam. It's the fucking best feeling. It is the best feeling in the entire world. Knowing that like any minor inconvenience, I don't have to worry about anymore. Anything that I want to do or be, I can do, um,

and the patriarchy hates it. And I love being the patriarchy's worst nightmare. It's my fucking job to show up as the fullest version of myself that doesn't deprive and doesn't hate my life. Because really, it's like a diet, right? It's very similar to diet culture. And we talk about this on my show where it's like, okay, the scrimping and saving and hating your life. It's a diet. It's a game that you never win. Right. It's a game that you never win. Yeah. I was in Paris last week and

my flight got canceled. As soon as I got to the airport, my flight got canceled and I was like, fuck. Right. And the reschedule was way later and I was like able to buy a flight within the next hour. I just bought a new flight. Or I'm going to stay at this, you know, I'm going to stay at a hotel. I don't have to sleep in the airport and not sleep well. 100%. Or I think all the time about, you know, when...

My perfect example of this is a lot of the personal finance advice, again, to save money is to solve problems that cisgender white men, straight white men have never had to deal with, but that they created. So like the advice was like, okay, don't take an Uber. Don't take a taxi bike to work. Right. Or like bike to, I'm sorry, it gets dark at 5 PM four plus months out of the year. Or if I'm out late, I'm,

You want me to bike home? Like that is a threat to my safety. If we want to go even like, I'm a white woman, women of color, trans women, right? There is so many things that money helps you solve just at like a granular level. If you're LGBTQ, you're,

Living in a major city is more safe for you statistically, but it's also more expensive, right? So there's just, there's so many instances where I can prove that money and flexibility, and I'm not talking Jeff Bezos money. I don't need to be a billionaire. I don't want to be a billionaire. Just enough money.

Solves so many of your problems, allows you to live a safe, healthy life. And the pursuit of that, anybody who tells you that the, now I'm on a soapbox, but anybody who tells you that the pursuit of that is actively trying to

To get you to conform to patriarchal bullshit standards. Yeah, 100%. I think it's interesting too, like since I've had money, I don't desire it as much. I just like... Interesting. Yeah, I'm just like, I feel super... It's not about money. It's not like a number in the bank account.

It's like once I have enough to move freely in my life, do whatever I want, that's been just like enough for me. And it's not like I don't want for more. Definitely I have visions and goals, but it just gives such a sense of peace that I feel really good about. But so what's happening? There's a few things. And this is what I do when I have things I want to talk about and I don't want to forget. Yeah.

I crossed my little finger. I love that. A little insider trick because I need to listen clearly, but I don't want to remember something. So one of the things that I wanted to kind of expand upon is what is happening when someone is being triggered by you talking about money? Because there's probably a lot of women that are like annoyed. Oh, so yeah. Like especially when we're talking about this. Yeah. I can hear to the like...

She's bragging. That's the comment I get a lot of like, I'm from the Midwest, honey. What do you mean? Oh yeah. Bragging. Well, you speak and you're bragging. Right. Um, first of all, I get it because again, I can, it sounds like a broken record. I can link everything back to patriarchy. Patriarchy has told you that in order to be likable, in order to progress through society, in order to do all of the things, um,

you need to, again, keep your head down, just work hard and somebody will notice you and it'll be fine and play your nice little role as the good little girl. That doesn't work. And if you really sit with yourself for a second, you're probably dissatisfied with that role and you're dissatisfied with that life. And this is a larger conversation about like the internet and like seeing people that we don't know, like anybody listening to us,

knows us but doesn't really know us. Right? And it's very easy, especially if you're seeing this on social media, to be like, I saw 60 seconds of this interview and I know this entire person's life. First of all, you don't. And second of all, you have an opportunity then when something happens and you feel a little like spicier. I don't like using the word triggered for this, but maybe you do. You can either go...

who does this fucking girl think she is? Okay. Is I, whatever. Right. And you can be like, she's bragging and it's tacky and it's gross. And you can not sit with that and have that reaction. I would say the higher self version is asking yourself, why does this feel uncomfortable for me? And I would guess I would gander that it's because I,

You see two women standing in their power who like themselves, who are confident enough to say things that might piss people off, but that they know to be true. And that's a great challenge and opportunity for you to go. How do I do?

get to that level of self-respect and of understanding. And that's a beautiful place to be. That happens to me all the time. I'll see somebody online and I'm like, Oh, well, they're, they're pretty full of themselves. I don't really like that. And I really, it's, it's, it's, it's very hard to do, but I really try to sit with it and go, what did I have that reaction? Yep. Was it because I expect women to be humble? Yeah.

Do I expect that of men? No, if men are really good at their jobs, I expect them to be able to talk about how good they are at their jobs. Why do I have a double standard for women? Oh, I'm okay with, you know, a man showing up and being like, I made half a million last month drop shipping, but I can't, I can't allow women to go, Hey, my business made seven figures last year. And I'm really excited about that. And now I teach other women how to do it too. So I think that again, patriarchy has ingrained this response in us.

And it's also told us that there's one seat at the table. Scarcity. There's one seat at the table for women. And again, if you're a woman of color, there's maybe no seat or half a seat, right? But there's a reason why, you know, especially in late 90s, early 2000s, in corporate culture, it was like there was a lot of conversation about how to be more like a man in order to climb the corporate ladder because we were told there was one seat. And so...

That's a great way for all of us to fight each other and to bring each other down and see each other as threats rather than seeing the system as the thing we need to fight together. So the quote I start and end my book with is, when you have all you need, build a longer table, not a higher fence. And it's this idea of when you're good, when you're financially whole, when you're taken care of,

You can not gatekeep and not prevent other people from doing the same thing and not build that fence, but actually not only pull up a seat to a table, but build a whole new table where it is more equitable and there's every seat at that table as opposed to just one. I love that. Yeah, there's so much there to unpack. Also go to therapy. Yeah, I mean 100%. I think...

A lot of what I see within the trigger conversation is just most of it's unconscious. So people are having the experience, but they're not really recognizing what's going on. And I've had that as well. Yeah, especially on social media because you're seeing 100 videos in two minutes and you're just like, oh, I hate that person. Oh, I like that person. Oh, that person's weird. It's just very easy to just have this

yeah, this very quick emotional response that you don't have to investigate because, oh, cute cat video comes right after that video. You know, I'll take that one any day. No, truly. Um, something with the, the trad wife stuff that I was kind of, I'm not done with that one that I was kind of noodling on, you know, I feel like when we talk about the patriarchy, there's so within the trad wife too, I think there's the experience of a lot of women that are like, this system sucks. I want out completely. And this is my way out.

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So say what you, I want to hear what you think about that, obviously, because you have a thought. I do have a thought. Can you tell my family? My girl, my girl has feelings. You're like, put a muzzle on her. I need to answer. Okay. I want that. And this is parlaying into the, it's the same type of question, but I just want to expand. So those women want to eject from it.

Because what I think we're seeing a little bit is like women that are burnt out, exhausted, pushing themselves to the brim, doing all the fucking things and still not feeling that they're abundant. So there's the eject out, which is the trad. So say more about what you want to say. Where do I start? You're just moving to non-compensated work. You're not working anymore. Yeah.

You're actually just not getting compensated for that work anymore. My mom is a non-compensated working mom. She's a stay-at-home mom.

a society just in general does not appreciate caregivers as much as they fucking should. But when you say, I want to opt out, which I understand because you're tired and you're overworked and you know, there's the women need to have it all and you can be a wife and a mother and a corporate girly. And it's like, I don't know if you can. So they opt out. But then it's like, well, one,

You're still doing work. You're not lying on a beach for eight hours a day and doing nothing. You're doing arguably the hardest job in the world, which is being a caregiver. So you're still working. And the second thing, you're a business owner. If you're posting it online and you've got a like it to like to know it and an Amazon storefront and you're selling, uh, I don't want to target particular people, but you have a farm and you're selling things from that farm. Like,

You're a business owner, girl. You're girlbossing somewhere else. You're not girlbossing up the corporate ladder, but you're monetizing your videos. Especially the tradwives on social media. No, you have a business and you're about to be, if you're not already, the primary breadwinner of your household because you have 10 million social media followers. So that's a complete fantasy. It's performed fantasy.

like tread wife, right? Like, like you're putting on a play. Yeah. And everybody on social media performs, right? We're kind of performing, right? There's cameras on us right now. We're not having a conversation. Just, you know, the two of us on a floor in our bedrooms, right? Like, I just think that it's, I get it. It's so easy to be so tired and overworked and you're just like, I'm over it. And I want this idyllic life. It's not that idyllic.

You're still participating in capitalism. You're still doing your Amazon affiliate links. And you're doing arguably the hardest job in the world, which is being a full-time caregiver who makes Cheerios by hand every day. So that's my first thing. And then I know you have a second question, but like, it's not opting out. You're not opting out because none of us really can, unless you're like living on a homestead and you don't have wifi, like you're not opting out.

we, none of us like capitalism, but at the end of the day, you have to pay your rent. You have to buy your groceries. And this is back to my original point of like, people feel bad for participating. Women feel bad for participating. We feel bad for making money. We don't like the system. So we're just like, I'm not going to participate. I'm not going to like save in my 401k because the earth's not going to be here. And like, I don't, I'm anti-capitalist. I'm like, okay, that's great. But unless you're going to live off the grid,

This is the system we have. I don't like it. While I'm working to change it, if I don't take care of myself, if I don't participate up to a certain point, I'm just fucking myself over. I'm just screwing myself over. Because if I don't have enough money to feel comfortable, if I don't have enough savings to be able to protect cute little grandma Tori when she's 65, like I'm

I'm just ruining it for myself. And again, my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is it's like, that's what the patriarchy wants. Now they're rebranding like, okay, well don't participate in capitalism because it's bad. I agree, but this is the system we have right now. So I need to teach you how to survive the system while we work to change the system that exists. Yeah. It's,

It is such a tough spot because I do feel like so many of the women, you know, we're told we have to do it all. And then we're participating in the capitalistic system and we're pushing ourselves to a limit that,

Because women have this perfectionist part of them, this like achiever part of them, this like can't let anyone down part of them. It's such an interesting thing because I do feel like the structure that we're in really exacerbates and plays on the very specific aspects of being a woman that you can...

Like, get the vulnerability with. Yeah. Like, being perfect, not wanting to let everyone down, being community focused. So it's just like such a system that really fucks women in that way. Because at work, we're going to be the ones that are going to be taking the emotional temperature of the room, going to be worried about other people. The non-promotable tasks. Yes. The birthday planning and the... Yes. ...DEI work that is often uncompensated. Yes. Yeah, because we care. And, yeah, it's so true. And it's also...

You eventually realize as a woman that anything you're going to do is going to piss somebody off. And anything you're going to do, like you're either too fat or you're too thin. You're too pretty or you're not pretty enough. Or you're, you know, you wear too much makeup. You don't wear enough. Like you just realize eventually the only person that you have to answer to is you. Yeah. So...

Do what you fucking want. Yeah. Yeah. And take care of yourself and take care of other people and then work to change the system that makes every single woman feel like this. Yeah. What would you say for the woman that's like in a job, a corporate job, and she's in a place where she wants to make more money to feel more freedom? Yep. Is it...

for a raise? Is it start a side hustle? Like, and this is a woman that doesn't want to kill herself overworking. So like, what is like the steps that she can take? Yeah. It's kind of all of the above, but it depends on people's situation. I always say personal finance is personal. It depends on you. It depends on what you want to do. I'm like, we're trying to play like not footsie here. I know it's cute. I'm trying to not kick you.

So yeah, I mean, if most women are undercompensated, they're not getting paid what they're worth. So yes, negotiate your salary, find a better paying job. Again, we talk about these narratives. We have a whole chapter in my book, Financial Feminist. It's like the earning chapter. And again, one of the narratives is it's like, well, they'll notice me. So again, I'll just do my good work. Oh, girl. I coach. The woman I coach with sometimes too. It's like they should know. I'm like- They don't know. Babe.

Let me talk to you about something. They don't know. They don't know. You need to write it out, every single thing. And if we're assuming positive intent, we're both bosses. I don't know everything you're doing all

doing all the time. Literally. I shouldn't, I got my own job to do and I have a whole team to manage. So sometimes I'm not seeing everything you're doing. You got to tell me, you got to tell me how it went. Like, and that's not because I'm a bad boss is because I got a lot on my plate. So you, yeah, you got to tell me, you got to tell your boss, um, you negotiate your salary, find a better paying job. That's the other thing is it's like, this is as good as it's going to get. That's one of the narratives I talk about, which is like,

you know what? Uh, my job's fine. It doesn't pay that well, but like I have, you know, okay. PTO, I only get 10 hours, 10 days a year, but like, it's fine. You know? And it's, do you want a life that's fine?

I feel like that's another mindset thing. Oh, 100%. Of just being like, it's good enough. Yes, because we're told, again, as women, to not want anything, to put everybody before ourselves and just say, like, I'm not deserving of more. It's really a self-worth thing, right? I don't deserve this job and there's no way I can get it. And I'm like, no, you 100% can.

And so, yeah, if you do have flexibility for a side hustle, it's how I started my business was, you know, doing it on the side because I really loved it and, you know, did good work at my nine to five, but was really focused on growing the business on the side. And... I did bad work at my nine to five, but grew the business. Yeah. My work was fine. It was good enough. I was not the best. Yeah. It was good enough to get me by while I did the thing I really wanted to do. And I think...

I talk about this a lot. And again, a huge chunk of my work is about how do we invest? How do we pay off debt? How do we save money? How do you negotiate your salary? But at the end of the day, and I would love to hear your perspective on this, I think you'd probably agree, I went from 100K at 25. Saved, right? Saved, yep. It was like total invested and saved and everything to being a multimillionaire at 27. So in the span of 24 months...

100K to multi-millions. The reason that happened, yes, I was investing, I was budgeting, I was doing my financially responsible things. The reason that happened as quickly as it did is because of entrepreneurship. And I'm not saying every single person out there has to be an entrepreneur. It often gets glamorized. This is a very, very difficult job. And also...

It is a lot of women's path out. It is a lot of women's flexibility and freedom to not have to make somebody they don't respect rich and...

deplete themselves trying to climb a ladder that doesn't actually support them or advocate for them or see their career growth. Um, so I don't know your feelings about that, but like entrepreneurship has been massive for my personal finances and for everything else in my life. I'll say, I think it's a, I think it's a personality type for sure. Um,

But for me, that's what I remember. I was in management consulting before. And I remember like my first year's pay, getting my raises, da-da-da-da. Yep. And I was like, wait, so how long till I'm making 150K? I'm like, heck, I was like, fuck.

years. What? And I was like, what? Wait, how are, how are people making millions? Like I was like, I was so confused with the disconnect and that's where entrepreneurship, I just saw like the exponential possibility of what you could do. And it's been so beautiful for me, I think to see women, especially on the internet, on social media, on Instagram, like obviously social media is not perfect. It has its things like it's,

It's very dark at times and very horrible at times, but I think it's been so beautiful to see women be like, we're going to use this tool and make businesses that are crazy. Like the fact that so many women that I know are multi-multi-millionaires based on the internet is like insane. Like you can really use your creativity. Like all the aspects that make women women, which is like

creativity, connection, community, conversation sort of like can be funneled through that. It's funny. I was at a dinner the other day with a bunch of friends and I had someone comment and they were like, oh, they were like, do you only hang out with influencers? And I was like, all these women are entrepreneurs. This woman entrepreneur next to me has a $500 million business. I'm like, if that was all men, they'd be like, oh, those are entrepreneurs. Yep. And I think a lot of times for women, it's like, you'll be called a content creator. You'll be called an influencer. Like I'm called an influencer all the time. I'm like, sure. Yeah.

And I'm making more than you. About two months ago, I had a very, very nice feature in CNBC. It interviewed members of our community. Like women called us a sisterhood. They were, it was like so kind. Guess what the headline was? This influencer. And I was like, New York Times bestselling author. I'm sorry.

multimillion dollar business owner. And I literally emailed the editor and I was like, hi, can we get this changed? And they're like, well, we just wanted to, you know, be able to encompass like people who recognize you on the internet. And I held my tongue and I shouldn't have, but I was going to do the like, I'm sorry, anybody else who's man and who's a male in my industry who has a social media following, you would not be calling them an influencer. And again, but that's a larger conversation. Why do we feel like influencer is an insult? Yeah.

Yeah, that's exactly. I had to noodle on that. Obviously, that. Because it's largely women. That's a good one. And because the society and the business world has said influencer with a side of like disgust. It's so true. I went on the Today Show and it was like TikTok star. And I remember just being like, they're not wrong. But I was also like, no, but I'm more than that. And then I had a crisis of like, why do I feel ashamed of that?

I hear you. I'm curious because, yeah, and I agree with you. I'm just noodling. Because I agree with you. I had the same feeling and I still do. And then I have the feeling of like, why do I as a woman feel like the spaces where largely women are succeeding, then I feel ashamed of that. That's a good one. Well, because I think that society has said it's not as legitimate. Yeah. Yeah.

I hear you and I agree 100%. I am noodling on it. So the influencer, it does because I think the connotation when I think of the word influencer is that you're someone that does something that's like not providing a sense of value but something that's sort of vain or vapid. You're like professionally hot. Literally. And you do dances on the internet. My dream. But also like that's a job too now. Yeah. And that's the thing is and this is the thing. This is the thing. Kind of like the trad wife. So much...

of some of our brands work is to promote a life that doesn't seem like we're working. So, and it's not like I'm hiding how much I work, but I'm not documenting my workflow. I'm documenting the things that I want you to see. Yeah. You're performing. Performing. I'm literally a clown. I put on makeup. I put on the camera and I make jokes. Yeah. So it's like,

There is that element too, where it's like, we're not even sharing the aspects or ins and outs of your business on business calls all day. So people are consuming where we're not showing the holistic. I don't know. It's a whole thing. You know, we all have opinions about people we've never met. It's so true.

And that's been going on, you know, forever. Yeah. Everybody had opinions about Elizabeth Taylor and yeah. You know, but it's, it's more that we get a little bit more of people's lives now because of social media and because of paparazzi and because of all of that. And so, yeah, I could have a three hour conversation with you about like performed authenticity and that even things that look authentic on the internet are innately performed because you're posting them. I know. But like, that's, that's the environment. I know. And yeah,

To circle back about your point about social media, like as awful as it is, it's also...

you know, the democratization of entrepreneurship in many ways. Yeah. Which is what I think is so powerful. Like I agree. I wouldn't have the brand I do without social. No, I wouldn't have my whole business, my whole, like, I'm so grateful for it. I feel like the internet has been such a beautiful place for me. I'm not on TikTok. Like I'm in my community. That's why I'm grateful. I'm not so much grateful for social media. I'm grateful for the people I was able to connect to via social media. I have so much kindness. Like obviously people say some stuff, but like,

It is what it is. But it's funny with entrepreneurship. I think about this a lot. Like, and I talk about this a lot with friends. Like when I was talking about a specific person is the entrepreneur. It's like, there's an element of my brain that says that you're either born with it or you're not. But I do feel like entrepreneurship is so embarrassing.

because you put yourself out there all the time. Like you are literally like embarrassing yourself potentially all the time. And I think a lot of people are not ready for that. Like a lot of people can't handle that. Like we've done stuff that has not worked. We've done stuff that has worked obviously, but it's like so many people are not okay with being embarrassed, putting themselves out there, doing all those things. Cringe. Exactly. I, a lot of people,

asked me as I progressed in my childhood and then in college, what are you going to do with a theater degree, Tori? And I'm like, make a bunch of money. Like my theater degree, I feel like is the reason I'm a good entrepreneur. And I have so many friends who are entrepreneurs who have some sort of like arts background because it makes you resilient. The amount of times I've had to hear the word no, I

and keep going anyway, or the amount of times I can give you 10 auditions right now that I absolutely bombed that are some of the most embarrassing moments in my life. I love that. Like starting at age seven, I could tell you, oh, I tried to sing this song. Literally, I auditioned for Fiddler on the Roof Community Theater. I was about eight years old. My voice, nothing came out. Clearly, I still remember, right? It's like, oh, my body flooded in sweat. My voice, nothing came out.

They tried it again. They played the song again. Nothing came out. I still remember it. And guess what? I had my cry session. I had my emotion. And then a couple of weeks later, got back up and auditioned again. That resilience is what makes me a good entrepreneur. And to your point of like, you're going to have to show up and you're not going to know all the answers to the questions you don't even know either. And I feel like that is the thing. And I'm going to look straight to camera. That is the thing that's keeping you from becoming an entrepreneur. Like

Like, because you feel like it has to be perfect or nothing. I have to have the brand color and the logo on the perfect website and everything that's ever going to happen in this business.

Even if it's five years later, I have to know the answer to right now. Even if I don't know the question yet, you will figure it out as you go. You will figure it out because that's what we've all had to do. I didn't have all the answers. Nobody does. Even people who, you know, are the most celebrated business owners. They have never had all of the answers to the questions they didn't even know to ask yet. So,

It's the same thing with money. You feel like, okay, I can't invest yet because I don't know every single thing about the stock market. Or I've spent two hours researching the right bank account as opposed to just picking one and then moving on. You just have to get started. Imperfect action is better than inaction every single day. And I think especially with entrepreneurship...

It feels so intimidating because you're looking at Mount Everest and you're like, how am I going to climb this thing? And I'm like, one step at a time. Yeah. And I hope we all build Mount Everest. Like that's the goal, but you don't build the mountain until you start climbing it. Like you don't realize the mountain, nothing happens unless you actually get going. That's the biggest way I see people self-sabotage is they'll like,

look at the end product of someone that's way too far along on the path and be like, well, I'm not like, they'll make either their goal really big. Cause they're very ambitious. I did the same thing. Actually, we were talking about Jenna Kutcher before, who's now like a friend and a colleague of mine. And I literally looked at her business, you know, in 2017, 2018. And I was like,

I want that. I can do that. Why is it not happening? Like, why is it not happening quick enough? And you know, everybody looks like an overnight success because you discovered them last night. Yep. I remember it was maybe two years ago when we were together and she was like, yeah, I've been doing this for like 10 years at that time or seven years. I was like, thank you for saying that.

Because I found her, you know, further along than those years. Right. And was like, oh, wait, I needed that reminder of that. Well, and if a genie came along and gave me Jenna Kutcher's business that I wanted, right? If I said, oh, I want this business.

I would have tanked it. It would have gone into the ground in a week because I wouldn't have had all the skills that she developed in growing that business. I wouldn't have had all the answers to the questions. So that's the other thing is it's like the ambition's a beautiful, glorious thing, but it also, you have to couple it with some patience, understanding that

You're not ready to have the business that you see maybe, you know, you or I have because we've been at this for a while and there's people, you know, like Jen or other folks who have been doing this for even longer. So... That's a huge part. I think all the opportunities I've been having, I always think about this with speaking. So I do speaking a lot and it's like... Yep, me too. The rooms that I'm in have been a match for what I'm capable of. If I was like speaking early on and I was like, okay, put me in a room with 2,000, I

I wouldn't have been able to hold and do a good job to get me booked again and again and again. Like, you always are sort of met with the match of the next step that you should do. And if you're given the opportunity, even with podcast guests, like, say I would have had the biggest person I would ever, like Glennon Doyle or something on years ago. You know, if she was on, she was on like two years ago. But if we would have had her on three years ago, we would have been...

What are you talking about? What do you even know? You know what I mean? You would have failed at the opportunity. So you always are kind of like sculpted and like set up for the opportunity at the right time. And I think people look at everything going on with social media and just want to be further along than they are very obviously, but in a way that just kind of keeps them small and from taking action. Well, it's all back to patriarchy. Say more. Oh, you just said like, you know, keeps us small or keeps us like, we always want somebody else's life. Yeah. Yeah.

We're always discontent with our own life or our own experience. Which I feel like is capitalism or patriarchy. It's capitalism. For me, patriarchy is white supremacy, is capitalism, all of these things together. I just choose to say patriarchy. And also, I feel like I don't have to say this, but patriarchy is not men. Patriarchy hurts men just as much. Patriarchy is the system that we uphold or that gets upheld. So yeah, I think it's just, again, we're told as women the entire time, like,

It's always what's next. It's always, you know, do the next thing. And you shouldn't, you shouldn't be happy now because you haven't lost 10 pounds or you don't have that business or you don't have the boyfriend or the partner or the girlfriend. Like what a beautiful statement to just be like, actually, I'm really happy as things are. And yes, there's things I'd like to change. And I always want to grow and develop as a person because that's important. But also, you know what? I like my body or I'm at least okay with it.

I'm making good money. I like my job and I feel like I'm worthy of money and worthy of love and safety and belonging. That is, if every single woman felt that way, the diet industry is gone. Most of the, you know, so much of society is just meant to make us hate ourselves. And what a beautiful thing if we actually just said, you know what? I actually really like myself. How did you get to that point? Oh, yeah.

What amount of money? Just kidding. No, like I, whenever I walk into a new therapist's office, I'm like, there's a lot I have to talk about and there's a lot of things I want to work on. I'm never going to have a self-worth issue. I'm obsessed. With my therapist now, I'm like, it's just two peers. Peer to peer. I'm always like, how are you? How are you? How are you doing? Tell me about you. Literally. Tell me more about that. I'm like, we'll put that on the shelf and we'll bring that up later. Yeah.

I, the number one question that is non-finance that I get, which is very kind, which is how are you so confident? Which kind of feels a little bit like a. I took the words out of my mouth. I literally, there's something about that that feels odd to me. Feels odd. But I think, um, again, uh, if I'm assuming negative intent, it's you with that body and that personality, or are you so confident? That's not what I think. But yeah. Assuming positive intent, I think it is

oh, I don't feel that way about myself and I would like to feel that way about myself. So how do you feel that way about yourself? Confidence is a self-worth issue and we don't talk about it like it is. If you believe yourself, again, worthy of love and worthy of opportunity and worthy of money and worthy of really great things, you will show up different in every space. And as soon as you get a whiff that maybe you're

that person or that job or that situation or that client doesn't see your worth, you leave. And that's double-click underline. You leave instead of trying to figure out ways to prove that you are. Because, girl, if I had a dollar for how much time has been spent with my clients, even myself doing that, that was my whole goal. Oh, you don't see my worth? My relationships in my early 20s, that was all of it. Yeah. Was tap dancing for men. It was just like...

You know, it was a whole tap routine. It was like, if I can shuffle off to Buffalo enough, you will finally believe that this is a great relationship. I love sports games. A lot. Or even just... So chill. Even just...

Oh, you want to stay in this relationship because it's a great relationship and I'll prove to you it's a great relationship. And you're saying you don't want a relationship, but like, I'm great. So you'll want a relationship with me. Yes. Yeah. No, they don't. Yeah. I think it's just. Self-worth. It's self-worth. And it's also, again, money allows you to exercise that self-worth. Yeah. Because if I'm on a date and it's not good.

I throw down my credit card. 20 minutes in, I'm like, you know what? This was really great. I don't see this going anywhere. Really appreciate it. And then I don't have to worry about it. I don't have to worry about this. Like, well, they won't they pay? Are they going to expect something? I'm just like, no, I'm good. I don't have to worry. Wow. If a job or client doesn't respect me, I need to leave. If I'm in a situation that I don't want to be in anymore because I don't feel safe, I get to exercise that. And that's a great point. It's like, you know, that...

money underlying or allowing and enabling self-worth and action. Yeah. Money as a tool for that. That's my whole... That's what I'm trying to do. That's the whole business ethos. Hey, everybody, listen to me say that. That's our whole ethos. That's it. Yeah. It's not about a graph and a chart and your investment gains. It's about your own confidence and your own self-worth. And we get now...

which is so lovely. You know, we have a community of 5 million women now and we get messages every five minutes from women saying, you know, I paid off my first credit card or I have a thousand dollars saved for the first time in my life, or I maxed out my Roth IRA this year. And there's always the second part. It's always like, you know, a comma. And then, and I feel so much more confident in every aspect of my life now because you show up different.

When you have money, you show up different when you feel financially confident because you don't have to stay in a situation that doesn't respect you. And I think that back to, you know, what we were talking about earlier, when you see somebody on social media or in real life that has that confidence and that self-worth, it can either feel like a threat or it can feel like an opportunity. And so it can either feel like, who is this person that likes themselves? They look stupid or they are this or that, you know, it's like, it's very easy to have that response because we don't investigate that.

Why do I feel so threatened by this person? Or you can see it as an opportunity to say, wow, that person seems really confident and really proud of their accomplishments. And how do I get to that?

The point on the dating with the putting the credit card down, you know me, I'm going to go here. I love dating as a multimillionaire because I make more than 99% of the men I'll go on dates with. That's what's been interesting is that experience. Now I'm in a different, the first round of my dating was that experience. And I had a relationship and because of

my money, how much money I made being a threat to that person. Can you, I'm going to pull the therapist. Can you tell me more about that as much as you're willing? Was it like a...

I make less and I feel threatened or was it just intimidation? Like what was it? So it was this person works in finance. Oh, yeah. Okay. We don't need anymore. Say more. So they're in a world of obsession around money and how much you make. Yeah. So it was a joy and a pleasure because this person was super open about talking about how much money I made, asked a lot of questions, loved it. It was like such a fun experience. Very in awe of what I did, but I noticed over time there would be so many different comments about...

Yeah.

That's a larger conversation. Again, how I was on the Man Enough podcast, you know, Justin Baldoni and love. Yeah. Yeah. So we talked on that show about that feeling of like patriarchy again hurts men just as much as it hurts women. Because if you're a heterosexual man, man, your your job is to provide. And so if you do see a woman who doesn't need saving, doesn't need providing for, then there's this crisis for you of going, well, then what is my job?

And so I have empathy for this person. And also I'm like, okay, let's investigate a little bit. I know. I'm like, I am just, it was weird because it was the first of a few experiences. I think a lot of the experiences I had were men not even wanting to know or be interested or curious about because they were like... Off-put by it. Yeah. Like I don't even want to know the details of how much money you're making because it's going to be like...

It's emasculating. It's emasculating. And also, too, I think when it's like you're first meeting someone, they're like, oh, you're a hot girl. And so they're just like, that's my archetype of like the thing, not like successful business owner or whatever. And that's kind of what happened. I don't online. You're an influencer. You're not an entrepreneur. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

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How would you say people with dating go about the topic of finances? Do they talk about it? Yes. What is the thing? Okay. So number one cause of divorce and separation in the United States is money. See, that's where capitalism is really fucking up with our homes. What do you think? Couples don't talk about money largely until they're already married. If you're not having conversations about money,

you're not going to have the most healthy relationship. It's just like anything else. You got to talk about if you want children, you got to talk about what you like in bed. You got to talk about all of these things. Yet money seems to be the one because we associate our net worth with our self-worth and we won't talk about it. I saw a stat recently, I think it's 30% of couples admit to what they call a financial infidelity. Like

you cheating financially on your partner, like having a secret credit card or having debt that your partner doesn't know about. Or this is so common because again, we feel so much shame and judgment around money. Totally. With my current partner, I mean, anybody who's in my life knows we're going to talk about money very quick. 100%. It's like...

We have very transparent conversations about money. Receipts. No, like literally. I mean, you Google me, you know largely how rough an estimate of my net worth. I had a man Google me on a date once. Don't do that. First of all, I don't tell any man what I do for the first couple dates. That's probably smart. It's smart or it's me hiding. I don't know. If you find my name and you Google it. I mean, I just don't want them digging into over 600 episodes of me. Yeah.

You know what I mean? I'm like, let me tell you who I am. Don't listen to me five years ago. Totally. My partner I've been with for two years, he and I met at a bar.

Sat down next to each other, completely random, very, you know, and I was on the apps at the time, but he and I just met in real life. And I've told the story before, but we went on our first date and, you know, it went very well. And he was tall and cause we didn't stand up at the bar and he like came to pick me up and I opened the door and like, Oh, you're very tall. Like that wasn't what I expected. And so, you know, we had just a really, really great time. We closed out the restaurant. We're the only ones there and the check comes and

And he knows what I do. He's, you know, looked me up. And this is, I think it was, first of all, they're like most green flag of all green flags, but it, it was the perfect example of like how to talk about money in a way that doesn't feel as scary. So check comes, we like kind of look at each other. I'm on the edge of my seat. He looks back up and he goes, I would really like to pay, but I don't want to offend you. Can I pay? Yeah.

And I was like, yeah, you can pay. That's great. But like, it was a perfect example of if he had let some of the narratives go on in his brain, it would have been like, okay, she's publicly feminist. She's going to be mad if I pay. So I'm just not going to, or I'm going to immediately take the check without asking, which, you know, wouldn't have been the end of the world. I'm fine with that. But it's like, it was a beautiful open conversation.

vulnerable moment where he's like, here's what I would like to do, but also I'm factoring in what you would like. How do we want to proceed? And I feel like that is how you can talk about money by offering vulnerability, by meeting somebody else where they're at, by saying, here's what I believe or here's what I might want.

but I would also love to hear where you're at and we can figure this out together. And then about three months into dating, and again, this man is, you know, very feminist, very, so kind and generous and loving. We were having a conversation about dating

you know, splitting things. And I pay for a lot more of, of our, the things we do one, because I have a slightly like bougier lifestyle. I like to go to nice restaurants. I like to do these things. That's where I like to spend my money, but also because I make more money. I make substantially more money. And so beautiful moment of vulnerability. We were just, you know, it was something we were literally like getting takeout teriyaki or something. And like, I had just put my card down and I could see him go a little quiet and I'm like, what's going on? And he was just like,

I know I shouldn't feel this way, but I'm worried that I don't, I'm worried I'm not an equal partner because I can't pay for as much. And that makes me feel weird. And it makes me feel a little bit weird as a man because I know I should be providing. Just the vulnerability of that was massive, right? And then I just said, I'm not asking for an equal partner. It's also important. He's the I statements. Yes. I'm feeling this way. Yes. I'm noticing this. And also with the

I feel weird that I feel this way too. Iconic. And the acknowledgement of that. Because most men are in their shadow and are like, then get funky. Yep. So I'm like, I'm not looking for an equal partner. I'm looking for an equitable partnership. Because let's say we live together. I'm not going to ask you to pay for half the rent.

You don't make enough to do that. That doesn't make any sense. But then we have a conversation of, is it, you know, 70, 30, is it 60, 40? What is that? And I think that's the other thing too. And I know we talked offline about this before we started recording of, you know, a lot of the conversations about money, especially if, you know, a woman is making more than her partner and a man, you know, might feel weird feelings about, you know, wanting to provide, um,

We're looking for equity, not necessarily equality in that way. We're looking for equity depending on how much you make, how much your net worth is compared to them or vice versa. And so...

Again, you have to talk about money. Like you have to talk about money very early on, just like you talk about anything else. And you can, you know, as you get to know somebody and feel more comfortable with them, slowly start to reveal more. But I think, again, lead with vulnerability. Somebody is more likely to be vulnerable if you're vulnerable first. And it's...

As these things come up, you can use them as perfect opportunities to talk about it. First check comes out, you can talk about that. First trip you're planning, you get to talk about who's spending what. Where are we staying? Are we staying in a more or less expensive Airbnb? Are we staying at the Ritz-Carlton? You can have conversations about what that looks like too. I think the communication is key and just coming with neutrality. Yeah.

And I've, you know, so what do you think about when I say this? So I desire a man that is making equal to me or more because I feel like I've never not yet met a man that has able to feel enough in their power and confidence when they're making less than me. How therapists do you want me to go? Go, go deep. Okay.

I get that you're feeling that way. Cracking me up. No, because I... Validating how you feel. Yeah. No. Like, I validate your feelings. No, because I have experienced that too. And I'm not saying anything about your relationship. No, no, no. I know. But I will bring up my relationship and say, clearly there are men out there. Yeah. Now, I'm not going to say, you know, I found one so you can find one too. Like... Yeah.

But I think it's just, I get a question in interviews now a lot, which is like, do you only date multimillionaires now? Or would you only date somebody at your level financially? And I'm like, it's less about the money and it's more about the traits. Right, again, I don't really care about what my partner makes, but I do care that they're making smart financial decisions. I do care that, you know,

Yeah. And it's like, it's not even comparable. And I don't mean that as like, but like what he makes versus I make is, is it's comparable, but he still maxes out his Roth IRA every year and like doesn't have credit card debt and you know, is a very hard worker and also advocates for himself. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for again, the money in the bank account. I'm looking for what sort of traits and what sort of like, does this tell me about other aspects of your life?

100%. You know, I think that's my thing with the money thing is the traits that come with money for a man for me is leadership, like ability to understand their gifts, skills, and abilities and translate that to something that they're able to make money with. A value of

I'm assuming that they have a value of freedom. They have a value of their own choices. And there is... It's not even about material things. I have everything I need. I know material isn't really my vibe, but it... You know, I'm not saying that it's not really my vibe. It's not my full vibe. But it's like...

Being with a partner that has all the skills that it takes to be financially abundant or to be confident enough in themselves to have like a groundedness around their power and their ability is really the desire. I totally get that. And also, we're not just dealing with...

people's choices back to personal finance being 20% your choices, 80% your circumstances or what's going on systemically without revealing what my partner does. And I'll tell you offline, but like, um, his field of work does not pay. Yeah. Like just is not, you can't make a lot of money, but he loves what he does.

And loves it. And is just... That's the thing that he loves to do. Yeah, that's huge. And so I feel like... Because there is like the financial guy making Buku hates their life. Right. It's like which one... It's not like you have to choose, but there's options there. Right. And I feel like, you know, I want to challenge you a bit of saying like, okay, there are certain traits of like people who, you know, understand and know their power and know their skill set. I feel...

Like there's only so much that you can control in that. Right. Back to our original point of like, yeah, 20% you can control 80%. You can't. So, um, yeah.

Again, I'm reflecting. I'm looking through the lens of my own relationship. Yes. And I will fully acknowledge that. And I'm looking through the lens of my own brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So how can that be empowering for people? The 20%, 80%? Yeah. So you control what you can control and then you work to change everything else. So we learn how to budget.

We learn how to invest. And especially for women, we didn't really touch on it, but I know you have previous episodes about it. You need to invest. It's not enough to just save your money. You need to be putting it in the stock market. And again, shameless plug, we got a book and a podcast to teach you how to do it. But that's the 20% you can control. And then once you're stable, once you're content, once you have all you need, you build that longer table. So you don't gatekeep, you don't

you know, hoard, you start saying, okay, how can I start a business that employs people and that changes people's lives? How can I donate to causes I believe in? How can I support the kind of policies I want to see? I'm an angel investor now. Like I invest in companies and entrepreneurs that I love. You know, you see so many women, especially right now, like investing in women's sports. Like that's so fucking powerful to be able to say, you know what? I have some money. I have some influence. Let me start investing.

throwing money at causes. Let me start investing in women-focused activities, women-focused brands, women-focused organizations. That's how we start to change everything is you control what you can control. You get to a point where your cup is full and you're good because here's the other thing.

Women, we're very self-sacrificing. We're very altruistic. And we give way too much of ourselves before we're actually okay. Like...

Make sure that you're good. That is your act of protest. Make you living a full, healthy, stable life where again, you don't have to be in situations that you have to be in rather than situations you want to be in. That's your first job. It's not to take care of other people. It's not to give away all of your money to other organizations. It's to take care of yourself first.

Because you whole and happy and healthy are going to be way more productive to the overall movement than you depleted and hungry and sad and tired. So that's your first job. Control the 20%, get to a point where you're stable, and then we work to change everything else. I love that.

What are three things that someone can do today to help their financial future? Yep. You're going to automate your savings. You're going to set up an automatic transfer from your checking account to your savings account. It's going to happen on autopilot without you even having to think about it. And it's what we call in the industry like paying yourself first. A lot of people wait to the end of the month to start saving and then they realize there's nothing left over. So we're going to automate our savings. You can do this through your payroll platform at work or through your bank. So every time you get paid, percentage of your paycheck or like 100 bucks a month, whatever that looks like. So that's the first thing. So

Second thing is you need to start understanding where is my money actually getting spent and does it actually reflect my values? So we have a whole exercise in my book that talks about value categories. It's the three areas in your life where you get the most joy. That's where the majority of your discretionary money should go. So for me, it's travel, food out, and plants. So many plants. I love them. They're my favorite. And that's where the majority of my money goes. And I spent pretty unabashedly in those three things. And I don't really spend money anywhere else.

So that's the big two. And the third thing is I need you to start investing. And again, it doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to be now because time is more important than the amount of money when it comes to invest. So I have a program that we call Stock Market School. It literally not only teaches you how to invest, but is actually an investing platform where we've built you the place that's no jargon, no Wall Street, Chad bros and Patagonia vests.

None of this like graphs and charts that you don't know how to read or what to do. So we've built all of that for you. But I think there is a narrative that like, oh, I need to be a thousandaire. I need to have multiple thousands of dollars to get started investing. You don't. You just need to get started now because time is something you can't get back.

Beautiful. Where can people find you? I'm at HerFirstHundredK on all the socials, HerFirstHundredK.com and my book and podcast are called Financial Feminist. Amazing. This was so much fun. It was. It was just a fucking blast. I'm so grateful. Back anytime. All right, guys, we love you so much. We'll see you on the next one. Bye.

Thank you so much, Tori. Again, that was Tori Dunlap of Her First 100K. Financial Feminist is the book. And you can find her online at herfirst100k.com or herfirst100k on Instagram.

All right, y'all, we appreciate you. Thank you so much for subscribing, rating, reviewing. It really means a lot to us. Make sure you're following on Spotify. You are subscribed on Apple Podcasts. That really helps us bring on guests that you all love. And we'll see you on the next one. We love you guys. Bye. Bye.

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