Everything Is Advertising with Ryan Barwick
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restrictions apply causer media. Hello, I welcome back off line. I'm the single most punished individual alive. My names at its on nine, your host.

Today i'm joined .

by rainbow c of morning .

brew and marketing. Bruce specific ally, of course. Ryan, thank you for joining me.

Hey, man.

what's up has got. We are in the beautiful new york studio of my heart radio down. A government, of course, producing life with us, life to type. Of course, i'm going to talk to me about advertising and we're going to start somewhere fairly obvious, which is what is the kind of status of the google ads anti trust case? Where are we at?

Yeah I spent uh, in september. I spent two weeks in Alexander rgi ia sexy Alexander tiful h sitting on a wood bench um listening to hours and hours of economists explaining auction dating. I know you .

very no but there yeah no no. I mean, I was I .

got a nose blade to have through IT because I was at times very little, but also very exciting. Essentially the D O J uh is arguing that google um doesn't just have a monopoly on digital advertising but they on the entire supply change, right? So google owns the software that publishers used to like the new or times of the watch journal to to run ads on the website and to monitor their content.

Um google also owns or monopoly has a monopoly on the software that advertisers are using to to to reach those audiences on the new ork times in the world and in between those two pieces, software there's this auction software there's a bidding platform and google also owns that, right? So they own every piece of the deal. Jet is alleging that they owned every piece of the spie chen and uh they really I am one point. The D O, J said google sees, I think, nine out of every ten digital transaction.

So that's pretty large, right?

That's a lot of them. That's pretty big. Um and he was fascinating over the course of two weeks. I was alone there for two weeks. I believe I went on for a little bit more than three. We kind of got a history of ad tech, which is this incredibly complex, incredibly dense, incredibly dorky, uh, industry, uh, to just kind of explain how the internet makes money, right? And google has been on the receiving end of a lot of those advertising dollars of of those ad budgets um and it's fascinating. So we had uh the monday before thanksgiving we are closing arguments, which is where the D O J and google get to make their final stand uh before the judge um and make their arguments, uh the D O J again just kind of point IT to google size and that they .

own every single part of the stack .

right or or certainly the most successful parts of the stack um and then google essentially countered by saying, look, we're really good at what we do and and it's hard to argue with them in the sense that they have so much data, uh, that they can monetize these things really efficiently because they see so much they .

can get really good at like the argument that would be what you have all this data from the mono police you're doing so i'm .

guessing that kind of how the DJ came in IT yeah yes and and he was interesting on the first day um the D O J said you have all of these advertisers but we never really do delved into why they have so many advertisers, right? Youtube was almost never mention doing the car chrome. Obviously there is a much sexy trial that that is still ongoing. Well， has already has already reached .

the yeah has already reach its conclusion.

Uh, the real heads were at the attack trial. I like to see the the real dorks were at the much more complex and borrowing al um so that wasn't really necessarily touched on um and again, I will be really interesting one thing that I kind of took away from the trial and this is called that is is a rock dog at so that happens really quickly.

We could find out before Christmas or even an early january what what decision uh the judge has reached um but one thing that I really took away from IT is that the D O J was basically pointing out issues or or decisions google made to maintain a monopoly, things that had happened, uh, ten years ago, things that had happened twelve years ago. So google does something in the industry has to respond. And then google does an another thing.

Can you give an example?

Well, there are these you know, strategies. One was called, like last look, where google would get the last look at .

a bid between an advertising Jason idea, right? Then they go, and we can just bit under them.

right? exactly. So, so then that google would do that, right? And then the industry would try to work around that. Um and and ultimately, things have reached a kind of A I don't know if copsey is the the correct term, things of kind of level out there, especially as advertisers are more than on to like streaming platforms or more, jon, to a platform like a tiktok or a twitter social media platforms. Um you know banner ads are kind of like, I think among most buyers are kind of like the least sexy version of advertising yeah, I think they are come and frame like can you name any banner .

you've ever seen? Only that mcDonalds one from like twenty years ago or said i'd hit that okay, there get that was a great and i've never fucked to burger, but I thought about IT for at least a second so but never let correct. And it's my question is, is that kind of advertising dying? Is ban a traditional that kind of media dying? Is IT being replaced as IT just cheaper and shada?

But you would hope IT doesn't die because that is the kind of of a .

right that a lot .

of publishers use, right? And obviously, publishers have shifted to try to get subscriptions. I don't know that goes far thing, it's it's dying, but budgets are definitely shifted in the in the same way that lan television um is is losing viewers every year and in the people are adopting like extremely platform, right.

Um yeah it's just it's it's not as interesting is not a sexy uh and and I do not know to kind of tell them not here. I don't know what kind of remedy I might solve that like a google s force to sell, it's options often are it's exchange. What is that? But double click.

just they finally after buying IT, they just sell IT again, couldn't they? So access to the data because that's kind of what they're suggesting with the search remedies listens if you had no part of the suggested remedy from the government been selling chrome, which are there on, but there's saying that they would allow other search engines to access google's stated dumb. Now could a similar thing happen with this?

But yeah, I don't really know. Like there the the bitterness is so complex, are so many players involved? I don't tally know what that would look like and I think that's part of the that I am sure google lawyers and the D O jays lawyers are are are wrestling over this kind of up. But you definitely got the sense, at least from the the however many reporters were there um that this stuff is so easy and so complex that I I don't know how much of IT is ultimately, I don't know what kind of remedies ultimately alleviate the concerns in the industry is certainly many people feel google is a monopoly, but I am not entirely sure where else they would take their dollar. But I can the part of that because .

gool is there's been another option, right? Kind of makes me think of facebook as well because I know that there is I have they done an anti trust case against that, I forget. But I know the argument is that they have a monopoly of a social media, which is true, but breaking up these companies seems I want them to do IT, they need to do IT. But I had just have no idea how they could also like they're so deeply embedded in every corner of every part of the internet at this point. I just don't know how right color would be.

Yeah, he was interesting. Google brought up on the last of the trial. I brought up a microsoft as its competitive look, microsoft has x box that's inventory that google doesn't have access to. That's an advantage microsoft has over google. I don't think i've ever met a media buyer that has ever said well that x box inventory really .

to make sure we're on right.

right. So like or or the microsoft has made rose with retailers, for .

example, ico soft been trying to do billion .

from being yeah they have uh uh A A very successful business around IT. But it's certainly .

ule a zon a billion revenue, several hundred billion formats. The google .

makes forty billion a quarter .

putting this Christ this talking. But there was once won to talk to you about that you wrote back in september that we've talked about a few times. So this facebook ads story, because I actually think that this may be a story that gets bigger and bigger. But you wrote the story about, he told to a few ad bias with facebook and that facebook s ads platform is kind of broken. Can you go into that bit?

Yeah this is something I noticed on twitter. I guess we call that actually what .

I um he did named transport .

naming to essentially buyers were saying, hey, so there are advertisers but advertisers aren't pulling lever. Usually advertisers go to add agencies in the add agencies I don't know your audience cares sorry about and um but I saw but a buyer saying, hey, you know we we had ten thousand dollars disappear we put IT into into meta and and proof disappeared that's gone we don't know what happened to her and you know one guy saying that it's like, okay, maybe that is a bug.

But then when you talk to eight media buyers um and they all say since roughly january that the platform has become really monkey, that there are a lot of hurdles to overcome monkey like a bug essentially like again, someone in attack described these advertising platforms like a google, like we are talking about or meta describe them that like I shouldn't think about them as platforms. I should think about them as atms. They're like you put money in these machines and then maybe money will come out or at least you'll get a metric .

that tells you you which only they exactly .

that they have decided for you .

um and they are the ultimate auditor as well right?

Yeah essentially buyers would say that these companies Operate black boxes, right? You can really d IT but the black boxes do sell do hickey and wickets right? Like people do buy stuff on instagram and and on google um and even on tiktok um but anyway, I I ended up talking to several buyers.

They were saying that you know again, they were a they would create a budget and then I don't nowhere. I want to advertise on instagram. And then in the middle of three in the morning, the campaign only targeted people on facebook and only targeted eighty old people on facebook. And and I didn't really work. And again, when you have so many people saying that that's what they encounter, that the platform wasn't really working the way they had expected to or the way had intended matter, essentially was saying kick rocks like .

there's nothing to money or anything.

No, I I believe at the time was talking to people. I don't think people have credit yet. And as they were saying this metal head, it's like best quarter ever, right? So meter isn't necessarily need to to uh, help alleviate these small kind of buyers even though these people in many insistence s are spending six figures on their advertising care.

breaking that down to these media buys. They are not just further listeners to break this down. So they not buying like one company they represent .

would like ten, so they like .

an agency of so so I mean, my my thought when that would be is how is matter making all that money? And it's just it's very there's no just very basic thing. There's no other way to advertising these platforms, right?

There's no other in road with instagram, al, facebook, right? It's this, yes, that is insane, that is bonkers. Like and this did you have a material that they get back to you?

Yeah, I mean, I think they would say advertisers love metal, right? And I think a lot and a lot of people, you know a lot of buyers will say, well, that does work for them again, sometimes outside of that's why tiktok has come so interesting because tiktok presents this third option um where previously you could really only spend on a mata snap vii .

that never has been.

And I loved IT in high school now.

but that's think it's like an APP that has uses. But when they try to add the business stuff just immediately like that, like all spends money.

yes, that is interesting as they take over every industry event and they always have such a presence. And yeah, I feel like the story, at least every time I talk to people about snaps as a platform, redit has impressed a lot of people lately beggin IT wasn't so tiktok that people actually kind of raise eyebrows about another platform giving them gives advertisers kind of a diversity outside of this meta and instagram.

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Maybe you can actually answer this going back to snatcht. Why isn't is this stuff just not effective for their ads? Not good.

I don't know if I could necessarily speak to that. I'm always looking for like .

a broader picture. And I what are people saying stuff is is just not that effective.

I is not that like interesting like I don't think that I ask people about that. I don't get that many interesting answers. Red IT is fascinating. Reit is like the wild west of the internet.

And I use reit. We got the of line and full of various criminals, and it's great.

And you see that as .

I move past them with the speed of peking.

you ve got the trained yeah.

just like old school into that just like, no, just my brain removes IT.

Do you do that with news letters too? yeah. So I feel like this is the thing. I'm curious. This .

evolves is the .

darkest conversion. This is Better. Five, if in five years people aren't even going to look at new letter ads because we've just trained the behavior till. So look to know exactly .

when the skip i've done test dads of like mates products like I don't, no one pay me than them. This podcast that will human ate me by trying to sell you A I software, which everyone loves to tell me about. But like with the newsletters, people do click, people do engage.

And I found that across the board. And my gentle view is right now is newsletter companies are actually gonna do Better. I don't do you know, back in like twenty twenty one, when every publication was like, we have to do newsletter now.

And then they immediately junked IT three months later. IT just feels insane because that feels far more the future than any kind of subscription product like subscribe, like the verge as a subscription product now. And it's like I get what they have to do because money things cost money. But I just feels that that the whole media industry right now needs to walk out a way to connect with the readers. And IT feels like the email address is good els like a good place.

That's where I want new york magazine launched a an APP, and I want you to succeed. I I love in the APP, they launched an APP. They created an APP as if it's in the .

ipad era of an an apple mac.

apparently not where they didn't put a lot of resources behind IT. And I think that's great. I hope that makes money, but I just want a newsletter and they do. They've got amazing news letter. Yeah i'll take another news letter.

I'll read something else from the org. Now completely different object but my damn show um the thing I ve been really thinking about right now with the media is the this objectivity problem where everyone has to be objective. But IT also feels like every outlets trying to suck the life of out of the report is not like literally, but no personality, no voice.

Morning bro actually does a pretty good shop with that. They have actually like allowed you to talk like human words. But IT feels like the times, the post, both york post has a voice, just not a nice one. Washington post, even business insider is experimenting with the discord thing, which I do write .

fossil guess contest. You're describing much more successful .

reporters morning i'd like morning but even though the video stuff rankles me a little bit, I I cream jie, but it's just we're in this weird point now and I think ads comes into this as well. Well, i'm not sure anyone in the media knows what the fuck to do business bod wise. I think everyone's bit scared.

I just want to report the news exactly .

like you want to get yeah.

I don't know. I have that tempted. curtly. Reporters attitude towards us.

So might be primarily advertiser, right? right? There is a cottage industry of attack companies that actively only in actively prevent advertisers from appearing in news publishers. There is a, there is a whole .

culture brand .

safety companies. There is a whole industry around in the example that everyone uses in the industry is that if i'm united airlines or a jet blue or whoever, I don't want to run my ad next to a story about a plane crash, right, you could see why that's a standard.

Uh, I think the industry several years ago is not necessary that the interest in this tech has wind, right? But the industry internalized that united airlines example as I don't ever want to be your news at all because that is a negative environment can control IT right? Exactly you can control IT and they shouldn't able to control vertit ers. I shouldn't have a say what's on the front page of newspaper um and the report to that is I have never thought differently about an advertiser um based on the content is next to I know humans think IT IT fails any critical thinking um and yet these are billion dollar companies and this is a very Better .

or so but a lot of that is the people making those decisions don't read the news anyway. So I just like why I this this thing i've made up is very scary.

I or they think consumers yeah are are kind of dumb, which I don't think is fair. I only get that here. But I think that I think that's A S and .

IT also just suggest they haven't talked to consumers like that. I feels like you could ask someone. And so sema tics, though I don't want to explain to listen, is why i've had run on a factual mothers that this is the reason I talk about ad so much, is kind of something you said earlier.

Who goes what? Nine attended the transactions, though. Advertising is this annoying thing that everyone hates him. Complaints about IT is the reason everything goes like this.

Ads on the show, that ads on every website, every single publication read has ads, banner ads, whatever video. And everyone has been trying to work out how not to do that for some time. And I think it's .

how the internet exists. The internet makes money. That's like the the way I tried, and I think me stylized IT but that is how the internet is monetized through s baby.

Google is an advertising business. Meta is an advertising business. Tiktok is an advertising business.

It's tiktok effective. I do. I has .

actually like IT yeah absolutely. They love IT. They wish IT wasn't chinese, but they they absolutely love IT and and they're still there are there still have a very large presence even though obviously it's been diluted of IT since the the election. But even though there is a threat that he could not there was a author that he could not exist.

Yeah doesn't seem like that seems like trust gonna keep IT now which is very funny just like OK synaptic bic but not that I it's interesting as well because I feel like the news media could have i'm not talking as a about morning brit feels like it's an undiscussed thing that only a few years ago, we had the first major online ad company pop up that chAllenged any of them in our place. The fact tiktok exists and just fucking popped up is insane to me because it's relatively new like what twenty eight, twenty I mean, various versions of IT might exist before and it's interesting IT makes me wonder whether any other company could spin up to shove a bunch of money and do the same thing yeah I mean.

it's I know this is something that you've talked about a lot, but every time I go on facebook dot com, yeah I think, man, there should be cob webs here doesn't look this isn't appealing to me as a user this is a couple of bad ship people I want to high school with kind of just screaming in the grocery is yeah um and even instagram I feel like has become that i'm so i'm speaking oh no no .

i've said very similar things a lot of times and way more swear words like fine um it's just really interesting and also kind of what pisses me off about IT you don't have to agree I rent the one but is that the cob webs thing is just like the products. Like they read companies and they've just stopped pretending they're like they're not pretending like I we're gona connect you with friends, your family just like ego pig eat your slob .

I say that is gone as so far as to say, we're actually not as interested in connecting you with your friends. What about the seventies funk band video? Would you like to see this content shown? Consulting, that's my alarm.

I just get bands out, but I got stealing and clipsed, which is cool. But that that, that is far from why I intend initially signed up for the apps. I wanted to see everyone I went to high school with for .

a solid six months period. All I got was this incense, self defense things. I was just like three second clipsed.

They don't show you to click, they want, want you to click on IT and IT be like how to stop a guy. And I would like you watching you like this guy. If I did this, I would die like this.

This is not useful information. And then a post from three weeks ago just from like a band that I liked when I was twenty two years old and is just it's such a strange product and tiktok is extremely manipulated. The algorithm, sure, but so that matter. IT also feels like worth of functional, bit like a thing you use and enjoy. I find IT horrible IT upsets me too old.

You find IT orrible it's too much.

I I don't like him from that scrolling. I must be done and like, so I don't even like scroll on my instagram pictures anymore because there's so much crap you go like two schools and go add for a mobile game that doesn't exist and then an add for a direct to consumer like low car product. I'm trying to be healthy and it's just like this cordon. The whole thing just feels like very weird. And then tiktok at at least feels like, yet we manipulated.

but we I love IT. I I find tiktok so I don't want to send like shrill. I think in terms of just like the algorithm as an entertainment platform, I find IT fascinating.

And again, i'm very dulin boring. So i'm looking at travelled to paris videos and cooking videos. S I just get a lot of cooking .

in more representative of regular people though. You don't need to go like three levels deep of I enjoy something. You don't need the brain rock like I and I need like extra brain. I need the shit that is like like the golden shiva looking thing that says a type yes, to a firm that you have been affirmed like, I like three level step. I'm deeply unhappy, but you do Normal stuff.

I will. I want my friends to send me the brain rutt.

That's how I created.

I get the group chat. Now, now my twitter is all brain, right?

That's how I like perfect. And blue sky, blue sky. And we are pro blue sky.

S, on blue sky I got hundred, three thousand followers. I'm cooking. Cooking is the best. And actually blue sky is interesting because I know how much time you spent on IT, but i've really been enjoying IT and enjoying the post that like, yeah wow, I shed a link on here and everyone saw IT just the insane we are beaten dogs we just like, oh yeah yeah I I can see the people I follow and there's not just a grape in my reply telling telling me is going .

to bomb my house or three different people playing A I ve been I ve a twitter .

and I don't know.

I still feel like I still get more among my very small pool there. I feel like I still get more of reaction. And I feel like twitter is more unhinged in a way that I find pleasant. But to your point about avoiding these letter ads, I feel like I .

can now avoy. I can do that. I mean, i've been, I was on the internet using like use net v shit like I grew up on gaming forms like oh, and not say yet. That's just one of the many, many freaks that pops up on R, C. They should be stopped in numerous ways.

But X, X to IT where if we call IT now is just IT feels like it's falling apart IT actually for getting not even like the cobweb feeling IT feels like being in like A A big lots which no one has been in for a while. It's just there's just shit falling down there. Some weird guy in the corner and he says some things you really don't want. You don't want any business with him.

Yeah, IT isn't quantified, but a lot of the ads that I see now on x twitter are now coming from google. They're coming from yeah they're coming from uh, access a partnership with google just for basic like open programmatic advertiser.

So just I got there in the whole that no, they must be if they're having to move on to .

like a google partnership. Yeah so so so like a lot of when I was back home in the from right, like the ads I would see on twitter or from like the pizza part left down the street and I have to assume the pizza lit wasn't spending that is hundreds of thousands advertising.

Do you think that's a bad sign for hicks?

Uh, well, what's funny is I I won a story about this. What's funny is when I went to the brands that were advertising and said, hey, you, you're advertising on x. They said.

why no they said.

what's x? This uh, platform is now used to be called twitter and they're no where we're on google as like, well, you have to go like, did you go in and did you click on the x thing or whatever? And they were like now well.

we don't know how .

the window essentially you the google algorithm ve, that they could find cheap impressions on ex. And that's what happened.

That feels like a bad time. I'm sorry if they are like the equivalent platform of like they're gonna know they're going to add our brain. They're going going to add out brain into buller.

That is a listener, if you don't know what our brain is GTA CNN doc com. Scroll down to pay content and take a look at that dogship. Also, and i'll say this with respect to the many great reports of the verge, it's also on the verge, which is disgusting. These things that could tram box is there cheap, usually affiliate marketing content you hear on an upcoming episode really getting the guts of them briefly, then punched them um .

I believe is to bullet. One of them has a partnership.

They do the oh .

yeah but one of them has a part, I believe is to partnership with apple. They they do all the in APP advertising or they were doing all the in APP advertising .

for for a couple of I I believe .

it's like apple news, the .

company. What does that say about a society that that company makes money they should should be in the stockades, not in the stock. disgusting.

But the look of my family couldn't say no.

Now he has absolutely no opinions about this, just to be capped.

This is IT your moment. This is your time to make your combat with perdue global. What you come back with a predicted bal degree.

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move on to another subject, which is my favourite thing at the moment, which is so OpenAI and perplexity so plex ity generate A I power search engine to deeply unprofitable companies. OpenAI is being hinting C F A. C F O, I believe, has been hinting the OpenAI would go into ads. And the response i've had when i've said this is silly is, yeah, so just add ads and IT doesn't sound like you can just add ads unless you just plug in google with anything to do. IT just doesn't feel I IT maybe it's possible IT doesn't feel like something going .

to spin up overnight. So a plexi, which is obviously the competitor to to OpenAI and ChatGPT. Um they are they have started rolling out ads model right at the time they wanted to charge people fifty box of C P M. And that's very expensive.

That and that's cost per mile thousand IT isn't unique is just sometimes this .

is shown and and that is about fifty box to C P M is is what netflix wanted to charge. Netflix being like the most premium matory right you could buy in .

netflix had .

a lower thirty.

So so it's interesting .

that you do see these uh these A I search companies um doubling with this seo advertising is like light speed up complex in terms of .

just like basic decision.

I an version there IT is it's almost like a totally different both game. It's a different categories. People that call themselves you know search engine advertisers, I don't necessary think they would consider themselves regular advertising.

They're very they've got a niche skill set. They're really good at IT um in in forever before google did this overview answers ah that's how google would work. You could buy and bid on certain terms right .

and then your link would appear exactly .

ah and so long story short, what does that look like for OpenAI advertising business? The thing I was good back to and again, this is very broad strokes but like my mom isn't using a lot of the OpenAI products yet. And I think advertisers, your blue chip advertisers, your your um your blood lights right here, your fords, uh I don't that they're interested in scale. They're interested in eyeballs. They want to reach as many .

people because a eh tech product, even though three hundred million weekly uses sounds big yeah that still kind of nation compares google's billions of big.

And there could be an audience. They're certainly an audience in silicon value in in new york and into pointing at myself in tech talks that use these tools. But IT really, really interesting to see how they build these tools out, what what kind of questions they get.

Who are the advertisers that are that are interested in this? Like you could obviously google has seen uh interest from a lot of shopping e commerce advertisers. If you're still clothing, you might be interested.

Hey, what's a good outfit I can wear? Like stupid example. Um let be interesting.

See how they build .

this is I am assuming I am assuming obviously, we've seen OpenAI has hired executives from from twitter, from instagram, from google. Um i'm sure there are a smart people that are building that IT. It'll be curious to see how the market does respond to and how much interest there is.

But just to be clear, you don't just like plug the ads and you have to do like an ad exchange. You have to have a place where publishers can buy ads and then you have to have an exchange forbidding on the ads. And then there's something else I missing like .

I like you'd have to build a platform that would allow advertisers to go in set. The parameters that they want is very technical.

And you I mean.

maybe you can White label, you can go to a company that does and say, hey, give us the tech and still have .

to find a way to represent those ads with inquiry as the problem.

And you have to have sales people that go to the market and say, hey, you should buy our product. Advertising is outside of the monopoly in the space. I think you know google, amazon, a facebook, that those are obviously where every dollar goes. It's a really cut their own industry in terms of there's a lot of competition. I think advertisers might be willing to, to test and an try out a new platform, but IT takes a lot of work to really pull the dollars from from a meta, from a google, from an a while.

IT took years to actually build up. And tiktok business doesn't lose money. Every anyone uses IT every single time.

It's just i've i've also had a lot of arguments online this week in general, but about this specifically because the responses we will just add, the ads will be there. And he doesn't even sound like the economics are there because they need they're losing five billion ten. They will probably lose ten billion next year. An ad business that does five billion dollars a year does not seem something you just spin up of a night, right? That's not an easy lift.

Um yeah, I can't speak. I've never had to build an ads point, right. Although I will say, and this is totally different, is a totally different industry, but you do see companies like walmart, companies like costco say, hey, wait a minute, we can actually we've a lot of data here.

Let's sell this to advertisers and that those have very quickly become billion million businesses. Um that is not the same thing as a search engine. People are typing queries into and getting responses.

And it's even obvious if they want to advertise do on search GPT or what they just want to do on the regular ChatGPT because there are two different products.

Also, I don't think people realized how difficult search engines are to build also is like tens of thousands of sales people google right? Am I right and saying that right? There's a lot of yeah like IT just doesn't IT feels like an insane big lift and also the actor and act somewhat in my opinion.

I'm curious what what is your um you know most people as a defauts hate ads if they can get netflix, I want to get IT without I am saying people I can afford IT are going to say, hey I don't want to watch right I don't want to engage with that kind of stuff. What do you think about ads? Supported media ads, kind of inflation.

everything. I think if the ads don't ruin the experience, they fine. If the ads are part of the experience, you see them. I like him a news letters even though I may skip over them like immediately, I don't mind if they're not horribly interrupting.

The reason I low of meta and low like specifically like instagram m in particular is there ads are intrusive and offensive at times. They're annoying and they are not annoying. In a way, it's like all there's a banner that I can click away from that it's like, no, you will see this across your entire phone decade.

Look at the look at the new kind of low car bags that don't even taste good. Yeah, they sold some bases to make, but it's just I don't mind that. And I also like the option of paying not to have ads like I will do IT where I need to like a pay for netflix to pay for hollo because I actually watch stuff.

Then amazon did that, which was rude. But I don't know. I think that support is fine.

It's just and one of the reasons what you you want here is listeners need to know IT is not just like you going to like add company dot com and then buy that for OpenAI on and IT works. I just I don't think they have a lot of time, but let's different subject. So all right, to replace. So what do you see for the next year within ads, IT feels like a very chaotic time, especially lean icon might be on the way probably on the what do you think is gna happen? What are you excited for or even just interested in?

Yes, this question. One thing I am particularly interested in is this kind of to my point earlier about everything, there's this, I think I suffered coin ted. He's an analyst and advertising that everything becomes an ad network like if you have an audience, uh which ad i'd believe you did I do um you're gonna start selling ads whether you like IT or not yeah because it's found money. It's it's money you look under your shoe and or you .

look in your pocket.

And there to exactly and everyone from to what I was said earlier, everyone from walmart to clearly OpenAI has basically figured this out, figured out the same thing that google and meta did twenty years ago that hey, you can actually monetize this technology um by selling advertising.

I'm here to see that now that everything is in a network, how do you compete within that? If uber is selling me ads while am in their car fun and advertiser, well, is uber a goodbye? Is that Better google than a Better is going to be a lot of competition in the space in all of these kind of tertiary platforms? I'm really curious to see, like does that mean there's going to be consolidated ation? Um does that mean that there's going to be this kind of like partnerships that pop up like united airlines, they're going to start targeting people with ads in the plane on the back of the screens.

One the airlines.

I believe, is the first I am.

So you .

might see an add. You might that everyone is two to each flying on the united airlines flight, and that's interesting. So that's .

intel lead me alone. And there's an island must .

connection because the way they can do IT is because of starting because the partnerships is starting with the internet of power.

The advertised are able to actually and a closing question thought how at some point, to your point of thing, about ignoring news letter ends at some point. I wonder if people are just going to get so over saturated that they just stop breathing past this stuff that they just like I I don't care.

I don't believe I got, I wanna be harassed like this, because talking to the few Normal people I know, the non dogs, the people on smashing cars, windows, steal people's walls and such. Listen to the show. Of course, the general thought is like this, fucking at.

They are just like overwhelmed by everyone's overwhelmed by everything but the ads. But I actually really group everything between and everything really kind of has you kindles, your phones, your planes? Now I guess back of the car, you got some wear thing on the back of ba drivers, things that advertisers to you now it's so weird.

Yeah I mean, um yeah I think, yes, people's ice glaze over, but that's why they're willing to spend seven million dollars to get in the super ball, right? You need there are some few opportunities, get as many ideas as possible and to get people to pay attention, that's why is there is less and less a surviving media out there. IT becomes more valuable.

Ron, thank you so much for joining me of the best, and so glad to have you. Where can people find?

Find me on on twitter? Ryan barac, morning blue, I am so sorry. I had to describe a tech to you. No.

I had. You want him. This is literally the most important industrial.

Even like microchips like this is actually genuinely the ending thing. You can, of course, fine me. And I have actually changed my blue sky name.

And no, no matter sy, I have not rerecorded the end of. And very sorry, you can find me on at d zr on dot com, on blue sky, you can still find me on. But I think I might be bloody .

done with that now.

But I barely check IT now. I feel like I feel the same way as I do with facebook. I'm looking at instagram.

disgusting. Anyway, you've been listening to Better off line. Thank you so much.

Thank you down a goban up producer as well. Thank you, ryan. Thanks the listening, of course.

Thank you for listening to Better roof line. The editorial um composer of the battery off line theme song is meta salesi.

You can check out more of his music and audio projects a meta salty dot com M A T T O S O W S K I dot com, you can email me are easy at Better off line dot com or visit Better off line 到 com to find more podcast links。 And of course, my newsletter, I also really recommend you go to chat that with your ed or ant to visit the discord and go to ask lash Better roof line to check out our red IT. Thank you so much for listening. Better off line is a production of cool zone media. More from curzon media.

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