12/5/24: Morning Joe Death Spiral, French Gov Collapses, Biden Mulls Mass Pardons
40:03 Share

Alright, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird-shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the partition. Partition? It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for

So how about a Closmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita? I'm thirsty. Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and... Wow. It's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already. If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off. Tis the season to be jollier. ♪

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker, Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. Hi, everyone. It's Savannah Guthrie and Hoda Kotb from the Today Show. Nobody does the holiday

♪♪♪

With Xfinity, finding what to watch is effortless. Just say movies into your Xfinity voice remote to see pics from your subscriptions all in one place. Plus, find more of what you love and jam out to iHeartRadio's iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio hosted by Santa so you can skip the endless scroll and get right to the good stuff.

Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to breakingpoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our

full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. - We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. - At the same time, there was some extraordinary developments in media, Donald Trump's election prompting some to think they should just quit. One of them is HBO's Bill Maher. You can take a listen to his reasoning. - I mean, I may quit.

Because I don't want to do another. I did Trump. I did all the Trump stuff before anybody. I called him a con man before anybody. I did he's a mafia boss. I was the one who said he wasn't going to concede the election. I've done it. I've seen this. Well, then how come he's so hostile to Jimmy Kimmel and not to you?

He's very hostile to me. He tweets about me every week. Oh, really? Oh, yes. Every week he accidentally watches my show and then low ratings loser. Oh, yeah. But I mean, I just, I'm bored with it.

So which is it? Is he bored or is he afraid or is it... Because at another point he says, I'm shitting my pants. Yeah, I know. About Trump being back in office. First of all, he was like, I said it before everybody. I called him a con man before everybody. Bro, they've been calling Donald Trump a con man since 19, what, 1978. Yeah.

None of that is original. What he called him Cheeto Jesus, Orange Man. This is not original. Like, this is ridiculous. He was, if anything, he was a follower. I mean, that's how I see him, frankly, as like this neo-reactionary center-left person.

who's like constantly calibrating where he can be contrarian but also be within the confines of this like imaginary movement which doesn't exist beyond the likes of Amy Klobuchar with your famous clip that happened with him. So I don't know. You know what I'm saying? With Bill, I mean, maybe he should retire. Honestly, it'd be good. He's been on the air for decades. I think it's time, personally. At what point are you still adding to the conversation? And look, I know this is meme. I like it.

Bill Maher. I watched Religious when I was a kid. He did a lot of good work on atheism, you know, and stuff like that in the past. But in the last Trump, you know, in the Trump years, what's been disappointing is how boring, frankly, how much all of it has been. It's just it always comes back to the same conclusion, which is like these woke young people, blah, blah, blah. It's like, OK, all right.

you know, we get it. Like, we see that point. We've heard that point before. And so it was funny Jane Fonda being kind of like, huh, well, why doesn't he go after you? Which I think she's correct that at this point, Maher has a lot of fans, even as he's still, you know, as a Trump opponent, there's no doubt about it. He voted for Kamala Harris. He thought Kamala Harris was going to win as I did and many others. But because a lot of his commentary is punching left,

He does have a lot of fans who are Republican, right-wing, voter for Trump, et cetera. So in any case, it is kind of funny that he's wavering between I'm just bored and sort of exhausted by it or I might be kind of scared of the next term.

Speaking of all of that drama, a very interesting drama is playing out, a Greek tragedy potentially playing out over with the Morning Joe people and their whole roster of regulars.

So David Frum apparently went on the show and made some spicy comments about Fox News. We can put this tarot sheet up on the screen of him explaining how all of this went down. The headline here is the sound of fear on air. It's an ominous sign that Morning Joe felt had to apologize for something I said. So in any case, they were talking about Pete Hegseth and all of the allegations against him. Some of the latest allegations are, you know, per CNN.

Some folks at Fox say that they were concerned about his drinking, that he would show up and they could smell alcohol on him, etc., etc. So he says, and I quote, quote,

Let's take all the drinking, all the sex pesting, subtract any knowledge of defense, subtract any leadership, and there is your next Secretary of Defense for the 21st century. If you're too drunk for Fox News, you're very, very drunk indeed. So, you know, this is all kind of par for the course for what Morning Joe used to be and the tenor of the dialogue that you would expect. And apparently David Frum had already been warned in his ear about like,

you know, his tone or being a little bit too edgy, et cetera. And then he goes on, he says this, and then Mika feels the need to come on air after they've dismissed David from, who's now apparently too edgy for the show and says, oh,

A little bit earlier in this block, there was a comment made about Fox News in our coverage about Pete Hegseth and the growing number of allegations about his behavior over the years. The comment was a little too flippant for this moment that we're in. We just want to make that comment as well. We want to make that clear. We have differences in coverage with Fox News, and that's a good debate that we should have off.

often, but right now I just want to say there's a lot of good people who work at Fox News who care about Pete Hegseth and we will want to leave it at that.

So obviously, Sagara, this comes on the heels of them making their sojourn down to Mar-a-Lago and having literally on that day in the next hour, they lost, what, 40 percent of their audience in a time when, you know, over the course of a morning show, your audience is supposed to build and build and build. Instead of building, 40 percent dropped off.

MSNBC overall has lost something like half their audience. They are already, you know, have already announced they're spinning off MSNBC along with another, with a bundle of other cable news channels. NBC is staying at Comcast, so they're not going to have, you know, the journalism of NBC. They said this is going to be like a well-funded startup, not music to the ears of people who are making, each of them, I think, make $10 million a year. Each of them. Must be nice. Each of them. Good gig. And,

They're watching. I mean, they're really in kind of a tailspin here, which I think comes out in their reaction, which happened just this morning. Thank you to our producers for getting this clip cut so that we could react to it. Where they're now responding to David Frum and, you know, the fact that he's calling them out for basically being, I guess, terrified or capitulating or whatever it is that they're doing. Let's take a listen to how Joe and Mika responded. This...

got turned into a column and a headline that said that, well, let's see, what was the headline? The sound of fear. Now, that wasn't the sound of fear. That was the sound of civility. And saying that Mika had apologized. Mika didn't apologize. She simply said it was too flippant. Now, I would recommend that if we're at a stage where

where a comment like this causes a meltdown. And I saw George Conway, another guy we have on the show. Who we love. We love George, saying, read this article. It's going to make you very sad, but you must read it all. Oh, because of the fearful times we're in. Well...

There's some problem with the times that we're in. You can't be fearful. You can't be fearful. Just because some people have said that we're fearful, let me tell you something. You can talk to anybody that's worked in the front office of NBC and MSNBC over the past 22 years. I'll tell you, I'm not fearful. You talk to anybody who served with me in Congress, they will tell you, not fearful of leadership. The main complaint was...

that we call Donald Trump's rhetoric "fascist" during the campaign.

And then we went down to have an off-the-record comment with him. Guess who else does that? Let me see. From the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street. You know what? I even think folks from the Atlantic. I think actually probably if they have a chance to talk on the background with the incoming president and president-elect, they would do it. In fact, as somebody wrote during this outrageously stupid interview,

immature series of articles that lied time and time again about us. Reporters said, well, I'd be fired if I had the opportunity to go in and talk to somebody who's the incoming president of the United States. They didn't do it. Ask any journalist at the New York Times and New York Post. Joe. Joe.

You are not a journalist. You are a group of people who loves to just suck up to power. Like, these were the people who were the Biden whisperers. And we see where that got, you know, the side of the aisle they were supposed to be assisting with. You know, they were people who were, Joe is the person who went on and was like,

I've seen all sorts of Joe Bidens. This is the best Joe Biden I have ever seen. And if you don't believe it and you don't see that, fuck you. Yeah. And three weeks later, what happens? He's talking about how Joe Biden needs to drop out of the race. Incredible. He called Trump a Hitlerian fascist. That's the thing about the Frum thing. I don't agree with what David Frum said, but

okay, I mean, you can't be having a show built on histrionics of liberal, of like literal fascism, warning that Hitler is re-rising in America. And then what, three weeks later, you're in your guest's ear? That's outrageous. Telling them to tone it down. I'll tell you this. I've been on probably television a hundred times on Fox News or some of these other channels. I've never had a person- I've never had that happen to me either. I have never. Even when I was a host, I never had them like, oh, you need to tone it down. I have never had that happen.

- It's crazy. - In my entire career. - Well, and you're so right, and that was something that really irritated me too. He's like, we said some of his rhetoric was fascist. - No, you didn't. - No. - You didn't. - You said he was Hitler. - Yeah, literally, you said that. - And then once he won, you went down to suck up and grovel and bend the knee.

Don't portray this as some like brave journalistic feat. Bullshit. Bullshit. So they're in a total meltdown mode. Like they're in a tailspin mode. I think they are truly sort of like panicked about what to do and how to maintain their relevance. And they've had a very cushy and very powerful seat at

at the center of power, especially, never more so than during the Biden administration. I mean, they were on the phone with him. They'd have his, you know, John Meacham on, who was his speechwriter. Oh, my God.

That they, you know, wouldn't even mention the, you know, conflict of interest of this person giving this analysis on their show, whatever. None of that was over the line. But apparently, you know, David Frum is now too spicy for them. It really is quite, quite remarkable to see. And of course, I, you know, cheer for the demise of this program in particular, which I think has been one of the most damaging. Like if you actually, if you care about the Democratic Party being any, like better at

all than they are right now and doing anything that's going to like really deliver for working class people. These two have been so pernicious, so damaging, and so frankly effective in the project of blocking any grassroots populist energy that, you know, to watch them struggle and start

and have these coping meltdowns live on air is truly a beautiful thing to behold. - I mean, the whole thing is hilarious, but the sad part is it honestly might work. The reason why they're policing the Pete Hegseth comments is 'cause they still want people in power to come on their show. My hope is that the Republicans don't do this again. In fact, yesterday there was a viral photo where a Trump appointee was spotted having lunch with CNN journalist, Caitlin Collins.

And getting doxxed like live by being like, hey, check this out. Look at these people. By MAGA people who were pointing that out. But this is the dirty little secret that a lot of Republicans never want to acknowledge. Nobody wants mainstream media attention and approval more than Republican lawmakers.

lawmakers. It's true. Donald Trump in particular. Oh, Trump is the head of the snake, but like they all like it. They love to be on CNN or any of these other places, not even just to fight. They like the attention. They like to be feted by the people that they think embody political media. It just occurred to me. I wonder if they think maybe, maybe our next move is Fox news. Uh,

Maybe. I don't think that that's crazy to think. I wouldn't put it past them. And why the comments about Fox in particular triggered them. It's a good point. Because, you know, MSNBC is being spun off. Well-funded startup, okay? Well-funded startup or not, you are not going to be able to afford $20 million for these pair of morons who have no audience left. Right? Right.

So where else can you go and get that kind of a payday and have that kind of access to power? Like Fox News right now has like 73 percent or something of the cable news market share. They are the biggest game in town. And if you're going to be relevant in the Trump era, you're probably going to be on Fox News.

So, you know, whether they, you know, really think they can make the shift there or not, which I don't put them, it past them to have the level of narcissism ego to think that, oh, any of these networks can take us, blah, blah, blah. And they can, as we have all seen, they can justify anything to themselves about the move over there. Oh, of course. Of course. No, they would go on. Yeah. We're,

you know, we're branching out, we're just speaking truth. We're trying to reach audiences that, you know, we couldn't reach over at MSNBC. You better believe it. And also, I don't put it past Fox to be like, hey, maybe, you know, like take a shot at them if it makes sense, if it's like useful to them and they think it works for their bottom line. So maybe that's the move they're planning. I don't know. I don't know. Are you ready to move easily and independently without pain or stiffness holding you back?

Do you want to look in the mirror and see a hydrated glow instead of fine lines and wrinkles? Now you can with Native Paths Collagen. This product will help improve your cartilage, bones, skin, hair, nails, and gut. And it's a single-ingredient formula with no fillers, heavy metals, additives, or artificial sweeteners, ensuring complete purity and safety.

Unlike others on the market, Native Path's collagen is completely flavorless and dissolves easily into anything. Coffee, smoothies, oatmeal, you name it. The best part? Native Path offers amazing bundle deals. You can get three or six packs at a fraction of the price of other brands.

With over 4 million jars sold, 1 million happy customers, and a no-risk guarantee, visit GetNativePath.com slash product to stock up on collagen for an incredible 45% off plus free shipping. GetNativePath.com slash product.

Alright, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird-shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian. Bartesian? It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for

So how about a Closmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita? I'm thirsty. Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and... Wow. It's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already. If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian. Because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off. Tis the season to be jollier.

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker, Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. Looking for the perfect night's sleep? Brooklyn Bedding has you covered. With over 25 years in the mattress industry, Brooklyn Bedding combines top-tier comfort and quality without the hefty price tag.

Every mattress is designed and assembled by master craftsmen, ensuring expert oversight. Plus, they have a factory in Arizona and ship conveniently to your front doorstep for free.

Choose from a range of firmness levels, heights, and dimensions, including non-traditional sizes, to find the perfect mattress fit for your needs. And with a 120-night sleep trial on all mattresses, you can rest easy knowing you're making the right choice. Visit brooklynbedding.com to learn more and take advantage of their 25% off site-wide sale going on now.

All right, let's go ahead and get to these events that occurred overseas. Just a quick rundown for you of what happened here. So you guys will probably recall, I don't know if you remember all of these details, but Emmanuel Macron calls these snap elections full

foolishly, ultimately. And it was looking like the far right, like Marine Le Pen's party was really surging, and they were. But there was this kind of coalition of the anti-Le Pen faction, bunch of Macron-aligned people and a lot of leftists who joined together and were able to block them from an outright majority. And actually, it turns out that the left party won the most seats in

in parliament. So you would think maybe that would give them some, you know, governance power in terms of governance, but not so. Macron decided to make a deal with

the not like far right party, but the center right party and put in place a prime minister that came from that faction with the idea of being basically like, I'm going to move enough to the right with this pick that Marine Le Pen and her crew are not going to instantly vote against him and instantly tank him. And so rather than trying to work together with the left, I'm going to do this like

right of center coalition and try to construct a government that way. So that has now come crashing down in spectacular fashion. We can put this up on the screen from Politico. They say, French government collapse turns the screws on Macron. The collapse of France's government on Wednesday night means it now finally falls to President Emmanuel Macron to step up and confront a snowballing political and economic

economic crisis that risks sending shockwaves across the Eurozone. After a heated debate in the National Assembly marked by raucous jeers and boos, 331 of France's 577 lawmakers voted to oust Prime Minister Michel Barnier in a vote of no confidence after he tried to force through an austere budget to fix the country's yawning deficits. Once he formally resigns, Barnier will become the shortest-lived prime minister in the history

of the modern French Republic and the first to be booted out by Parliament since 1962. So basically the lefties and the righties and the right wing, like Le Pen's faction, they voted together to oust this dude. That's how he went down. We can put this next piece up on the screen. This is Daniel, Daniel Nishanian,

in addition to doing great work covering politics here, also covers French politics in a way that's very useful. He says the unnecessary July snap elections resulted in a wildly fragmented assembly, as you'll know well if you were following me, that's what I was just referring to before. The

The left coalition got roughly 190 seats. The Macronist parties got roughly 170. The far right got roughly 140. Conservatives got roughly 40. Okay, so that's the smallest faction that Macron had partnered with here. In French, coalition that controls the assembly gets to be prime minister and effectively govern the country with little input from the president if the PM and president are in different camps. But no election in the current regime had resulted in such a fragmented chamber. Let's put the next slides up on the screen that continues to explain this situation.

He says Macron, you'll also recall, refused to name a prime minister from the left coalition, saying that with only one third of the seats, they were too certain of losing a no confidence vote as soon as they came in power. That itself provoked controversy. So instead, he named this conservative Michael Barnier as Michel Barnier as PM, formalizing a tacit alliance between his parties and a this center right party.

Overall, Alliance only had about 210 out of 577 seats. But the idea was this is the best way to get the far right to hold off on a no-confidence vote. I'll put the last one up on the screen here. So here we are. Either Le Pen changes her mind and lets Barnier live another day. We now know that did not happen, either because he gives concessions or something else, or the cabinet falls and it's unclear what happened then. There can be no new elections till the summer of

at the earliest, so that's kind of where things are right now, Sagar. As far as like the analysts I'm reading online, no one really knows.

what happens next. It's crazy. It's like, I mean, the country is just basically ungovernable at this point. And, you know, it really all does go back to that original decision from Macron to hold the snap elections. And then rather than working with the left who he'd sort of allied with to be able to, you know, hold on to power, instead trying to please Le Pen and do enough to keep her from participating in this no confidence vote. And now that has all kind of come apart.

come apart. The whole thing is completely insane. And really what it is, is that there are not a lot of easy choices, as you said, about where things go next, because now you have no prime minister. Also, Europe is in, honestly, like turmoil right

Now, not only with the election of Donald Trump, but Germany is like torn right now over whether they should escalate the war in Ukraine or not. Their chancellor is like simultaneously visiting Kyiv, but also said he doesn't wanna provide offensive weapons. They literally have no idea what to do. - Yeah, that's right. - And so with the French, Macron has been very hawkish on Ukraine. He's even floated putting like French troops on the ground.

But then you also have the budget crisis internally. I mean, I don't know. The whole thing is nuts just for like where things even go in the future. And I would say it's a major problem for them because Trump is going to use a lot of this as to his own advantage. Remember, Trump is going to be in France this weekend. He's going to be- Oh, really? I didn't realize that. He'll be in Paris on Saturday for the opening of the-

the reopening of Notre Dame after it burned down. Oh, wow. And so, and him and Macron famously got along very well. Macron played him like a fiddle. I watched it up close. He speaks perfect English. He's very, you know, he's a glad-handing shapeshifter. He knows exactly what to do. You should see him in action with reporters, who, by the way, he knows them all by name. It's amazing to watch, to watch a foreign leader play Americans so well. But,

But anyway, he has invited Trump to that opening. Famously, by the way, Trump is planning that he will be in charge of our 250th anniversary party for July 4th, I think it's 2026, will be America 250, which is going to be a big celebration. And

He got the idea, remember, for a military parade from the Bastille Day in France. So apparently he'll be discussing some of that with him. It'll be interesting. It'll be interesting. But I'm curious to see the effects in terms of the French government and also the country and Europe itself.

what they want to do and how they're going to handle a Donald Trump administration. I was looking at tariff charts just yesterday. We had very modest tariffs on European goods last time around, even with Trump in office. They were bitching about like a 1% increase. If Trump is able to get what he actually wants to, which is like 10% to 15%, it would decimate the European economy. They would be destroyed. They were pissed off about the Biden administration. Yeah, their –

Inflation Reduction Act. The IRA has specific provisions within it that require certain percentage of the car to be eligible for a tax credit has to be made in the United States. Yeah. Both Canada and the Europeans hate. Well, and so they may be, I mean, Trump has said he wants to roll that stuff back.

So they may be pleased with some of the things that they get. They might be pleased with that. But in terms of raw goods and other stuff that we do, I mean, think about it. For every EV that we buy, we probably buy 10 Volvos or whatever. So it comes over in terms of gas-powered vehicles. The amount of trade that we do with the EU is, EV is a very, very small part.

of that. They were upset because they see that as a future market. But in general, they're going to be, if there's any real tariffs that go into place, especially think about it, right now, Europeans are heavily reliant on US LNG. And so previously, they moved from Russian gas over to US LNG. We are the dominant energy seller.

to the Europeans right now. So we have tremendous leverage over their economies. We could destroy them overnight. They're all doing their version of the Joe and Mika trip to Mar-a-Lago. Mr. Trump, congratulations. I don't hate it. Congratulations on your incredible victory. You're such a genius, like Zelensky tweeting all that stuff out. I like to see Europeans in a supplicant mood.

There's nothing that I hate more than when they lecture us. We'll see. Yeah, we will see. I thought this was funny from Arno, our friend, who we tried to book for today, but he was busy. We'll get him on another time because he does such a great job. But put this up on the screen. Drawing some parallels with the wild events in South Korea this week. He says...

run for election, overtake country from unpopular incumbent promising you'll change things, perform even worse, suck up to the U.S. in very embarrassing ways, run country's economy to the ground, be wildly unpopular, lose parliamentary majority, propose budget that's opposed by parliament, present opposition as illegitimate and anti-democracy, disregard election results, be Emmanuel Macron, pick

unrelated and the picture is of the South Korean dude who just tried to do the coup. So drawing some parallels here, but you know, just to make the tie in with US politics, to wrap this up, you'll recall Sagar when the left alliance

able to sort of block the Marine Le Pen surge, whatever. Isn't that when Ron Klain put out his tweet that was like, oh, interesting, incumbent with some 30% approval rating is able to maintain his position of power, basically saying like, oh, this will be Joe Biden's path back in. And I think they really believed that. They thought that the anti-

some would say, anti-fascist coalition that came together in France, that it would be a similar dynamic that would play out here in the U.S. And that was really the view, you know, the anti-Trump coalition. Like, that was the bedrock view of the Morning Joes of the world, of the Ron Klains of the world, of the whole, like...

Liz Cheney approach to politics and David Plouffe and all these people, they really thought that that was the way to win back the White House and obviously it didn't work out. Yeah, and clearly the radical reaction they thought was an aberration. So, for example, you had Theresa May kind of become the, I don't know,

like the inheritor of Brexit. She calls the snap election. She thinks she's gonna win. She ends up losing. This leads to the disaster of Boris Johnson and of Rishi Sunak and now even Keir Starmer. He's like tremendously unpopular. Don't forget Liz Truss in there. Liz Truss as well. Yeah, that's right.

But, you know, Nigel was more popular than ever before. You know, traditional conservative voters voted reform for the first time in the UK. Same in France. Macron rose on the promise that he would move past. He called himself a Jupiterian, which is an amazing term.

to move past almost a Napoleonic figure, rising above the traditional French mess of politics to lead Europe in a center-left neoliberal direction. Remember, Barack Obama endorsed him in 2017. It's been a disaster. Angela Merkel, same thing, the inheritor of that theory of Germany and of strong Europe and the United States, didn't work out, has been replaced by Schultz. Him himself is a mess in terms of

the rise of the AFD now in Germany. So across the continent and really across the world, you watch as a lot of these incumbent figures are slowly dropping one by one. I don't know who's gonna replace Macron. It could be a socialist, it could be Marine Le Pen, but either way, it's gonna be pretty radical and shocking and different than what came before. - Likely, very likely. - His goal was to be a bulwark against that. And it's just, they thought they could outlast

the forces of Brexit, of Trump, and all of that. And the truth is is that those were not only nascent, but they've only grown even more as people have tried to push it down. So the Trump victory and the fall of these governments and whatever come next is just a natural extension. - Part of that global trend of anti-incumbency too where every single incumbent figure in the Western world

Lost share. And where did you say? And India. And India, lost share. So anyway, the winds of change are a-blowing, whether our leaders listen to it or not. Yes, that's right. It'll be fun. It'll be fun to watch. Are you ready to move easily and independently without pain or stiffness holding you back? Do you want to look in the mirror and see a hydrated glow instead of fine lines and wrinkles? Now you can with Native Paths Collagen.

This product will help improve your cartilage, bones, skin, hair, nails, and gut. And it's a single-ingredient formula with no fillers, heavy metals, additives, or artificial sweeteners, ensuring complete purity and safety.

Unlike others on the market, Native Path's collagen is completely flavorless and dissolves easily into anything. Coffee, smoothies, oatmeal, you name it. The best part? Native Path offers amazing bundle deals. You can get three or six packs at a fraction of the price of other brands.

With over 4 million jars sold, 1 million happy customers, and a no-risk guarantee, visit GetNativePath.com slash product to stock up on collagen for an incredible 45% off plus free shipping. GetNativePath.com slash product.

Alright, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird-shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the partition. Partition? It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for

So how about a Closmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita? I'm thirsty. Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and... Wow. It's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already. If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian, because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off. Tis the season to be jollier.

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker, Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. There are three types of people listening to this radio ad right now.

Real is back.

Real holiday celebrations are back. And this holiday season, Got Milk is committed to creating positive moments of connection with you and your loved ones. Win $5,000 in spending cash to bring joy and warmth to those who are near and dear. Why? Because real is back. So whether it's a last-minute holiday trip or that perfect holiday gift...

Create lasting memories that will fill your season with love and laughter. Enter now at iHeart.com slash makingmemories and help make your holidays truly unforgettable. Real is back. Got milk?

All right, let's go to The View. Couldn't help but get some of this in there. Just to be clear, it's not just because it's The View. It's because we also found some interesting news about the Biden administration pondering pardons for Dr. Fauci, Liz Cheney, and others. But before we get to that, there was an amazing moment between Charlemagne and Whoopi Goldberg where he calls her out because she defended Joe Biden saying he never lied about pardoning his son Hunter. Let's take a listen.

oh, you know, nobody's above the law. I respect, you know, the jury's decision in regards to my son. He didn't believe that. But he didn't have to volunteer that lie to begin with. I'm going to stop you for a second. Uh-oh. Only because you don't know that it was a lie. We don't know why he changed his mind. You really think he just changed his mind over Thanksgiving weekend all of a sudden? No, I'm going to tell you what I think. Okay. I think he changed his mind because he got sick of watching everybody else get over. Come on.

And this is just my feeling. Because at some point, you get to the place where you just go, so I'm just going to follow the straight and narrow always. Because that's what's expected of Democrats. But that's their fault. They're the ones that go out there and they stand on this moral high ground. They don't have to do that. I'm a Democrat. Tell me what the moral high ground is. The moral high ground is nobody's above the law. I respect what the jurors are saying.

He didn't have to do that. So we're mad at him because he changed his... By the way, I'm not mad at him pardoning Hunter Biden. But you sound like you're mad. No, no, no, no, no. What is it that makes people flip the out...

with Joe, but we don't have the same kind of thing. Well, I don't think people are flipping out with Joe. I think Democrats are flipping out with Joe because Democrats believe that they don't represent what he's currently representing. But that's just not true. That's why I say they stand on this moral high ground that simply does not exist. And I think this is also the problem when we pick sides, right? We've turned political parties into teams. I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan. Ain't nobody more delusional than me.

Right. OK, I feel like we're going to the Super Bowl every year, but I'm not delusional. Well, no, that is delusional. But when it comes to political parties, if you pick a side, right, if you say you're a Democrat, if you say you're a Republican, you refuse to be objective about anything. I'm an independent. Yes.

What do you even say about it? And look, it's the natural extension now of reneging on all of this previous discussion, 'cause it's not only about the pardon for Hunter Biden, but the White House, let's put this on the screen, is now mulling

pardons, preemptive sweeping pardons, just like the historic pardon of Hunter Biden, the most sweeping pardon in American history for quote unquote Adam Schiff, Liz Cheney, and Dr. Anthony Fauci. You know what's actually amazing about this, Crystal, is that specifically previously, remember the Supreme Court case about presidential immunity and the Biden discussion around that? The entire liberal intelligentsia was attacking the very mechanism that Biden would have to employ

to give this quote unquote sweeping pardon of all of these figures. It's kind of legally complicated, but I looked into it in terms of what previous people had said. But it has to do both with presidential immunity and the power of what it would take to actually enact something like this in legal. And it specifically relies on that Supreme Court interpretation of the preemptive pardon. But more importantly, it's ridiculous from the point of

The preemptive sweeping pardon. First of all, they told us that these people did nothing wrong. So why do they need a pardon? Especially Fauci. Like that is the one that really. I mean, because you've got people who are coming in who have an enemies list. Yeah. Who've said they're going to like. That's a good enemy. Go after and have retribution against them. Yeah. So to be like, you know, even if you ultimately think they're going to be found innocent in a court of law, even if you believe that.

than just the investigation and the invasion of privacy and the harassment and the legal bills, like multi-six figures of legal bills or whatever. Yeah, I support him pardoning these people because you can't- Even Fauci? You can't- Even Fauci? I mean, at this point- The guy's worth millions. Donald Trump pardoned Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Charles Kushner, Dinesh D'Souza. The list goes on.

- And the list goes on and on. And whatever randos that his son brought in who like paid enough money to get in the door. So am I gonna cry a river about when you've got a guy coming in who campaigned on retribution, who put into place the people to make good on those promises, am I gonna cry about them being like, no, we're gonna, yes, we're gonna pardon these people. And I'm sure Democrats are gonna run around saying like, oh, we don't want these pardons, please. Like Adam Schiff has already said like, oh, I don't really wanna pardon. Yes, they do. They just wanna keep their hands clean. Listen, my issue with all of this

is just, listen, if we're done with the norms, be done with the norms. And be done with the norms in not just a way that protects your elite buddies, which is what this is, or your son, Hunter, be done with the norms in a way that actually delivers for regular people. That's my real grievance here, is not with taking this action, which I think given what Trump has said, what he campaigned on, and who he put in place, whatever, no one should be surprised that Joe Biden is moving in this direction. But okay, if we're done with norms,

then let's be done with norms. Let's also, listen, Joe Biden, you campaigned on, and Ryan pointed this out, you campaigned on ending the death penalty. You've got 40 inmates sitting on federal death row right now. Why not use these powers to commute their sentences if that's something that you believe in, which I also believe in, by the way. You've got nonviolent offenders

that are in federal prisons, like use these powers to help them out as well. That's more of my issue is when you're only using the powers to help your elite buddies. But again, I think, you know, given what Trump said and who he's put into place, like I'm not surprised and I'm not shocked and I'm not appalled by any of this. No, I mean, sure. I'm not.

shocked by it either, but it's just, first of all, it's so deeply hypocritical for what it all like previously was. But I mean, the point on Fauci is that that actually would be directly antithetical to any accountability that I think we believe in. I mean, not Fauci, not only lied to the American people, but he genuinely perjured himself multiple times

before the US Congress and was complicit in the lab leak and helped cover it up. If that's not a crime that should be prosecuted or whatever, then what is? I mean, if we look back and we think about all the people who got away with the Iraq War or any of the great crimes of our life, this is the poster child for what government accountability really should look like.

Now, sure, I get the aesthetic is not, you know, fun for a lot of people whenever you combine Adam Schiff and with Liz Cheney. But at the end of the day, like, we believe in elite accountability, preemptive and sweeping pardons. Yes, even if they are for somebody who wants a quote-unquote target list or whatever. I just think it's wrong, you know, especially with

If this person was held up as the figure and the father of American medicine, he was defended to the death by the media, by the government. I think he genuinely is a criminal and he should face at least some accountability. At the very least, okay, fine.

a criminal prosecution or not. Real hearings, a real report, a real investigation. I think America deserves that after the fucking devastation of all of the years of COVID. I mean, it did more damage to the public health system than anybody else, probably in modern history.

And so when you think about preemptively pardoning him, especially too, if you think about it, with a lot of people who supported Donald Trump or even RFK Jr. and other, a lot of that was built on the public health distrust. So if we believe in any sort of elite accountability, I think a pardon for Fauci in particular, that's the one that got me.

But you have Liz Cheney, whatever. I mean, listen, I think we should reform this like unilateral power altogether. But the reality is there's a lot of selective outrage out there because when Trump was pardoning his buddies because they didn't want to testify against him, these same people who are outraged now didn't have a goddamn word to say. And unlike with Hunter Biden, where Joe Biden did come out and was like, I would never do that.

He never said that about these people. So it's not like he lied in this instance or went back in his word. You know, this I think that there is a reasonable point to be made that it is ridiculous and you end up looking like a fool and losing if you are the only side that is still committed to these norms. And so that was the message that was sent by the American people in this election. And, you know, that's this is the world we live in now.

So if you wanted to live in a world where Dr. Fauci was held accountable, then you should have objected, you know, going back when Bill Clinton was letting his own brother off the hook, or when Donald Trump was letting Charles Kushner and Roger Stone, Dinesh D'Souza, and all these people off the hook. Like,

Like, if you weren't outraged then, then spare me about, you know, Adam Schiff getting a pardon or whatever. So just because people have not been ideologically consistent means we should all continue the race to the bottom. I mean, that's just like a rhetorically. This is where we are. This is where we are. And it's not just like, you know, some of these people who I don't like, like, I don't, you know, it doesn't mean that they committed crimes.

Trump and Cash, like they literally have an enemies list. He literally ran on retribution. And so you think that given that rhetoric and given putting into place the mechanism to follow through on that, that the other side's not going to respond? Like, of course, they would be fools not to. And the Republicans would do the exact same shit. That is a fair argument. I don't disagree. It doesn't make it

bad. I mean, it doesn't, you know, and I think that's what at least I'm trying to get at. And that's why I'm focusing on the Fauci one. Schiff, Liz Cheney, whatever. I mean, has Liz Cheney committed a crime? I mean, in a moral sense, yes. And has Adam Schiff committed a crime? Actually, I don't know in terms of what that would look like with

the Russia case. But with Fauci, I'm just so dead certain. And so for him, it would be like pardoning Scooter Libby, which, who did that, by the way? Which president? Donald Trump, that's right. There you go. Who pardoned Scooter Libby. But I don't remember a lot of outrage about that, really, from anyone on the right at that point. That's true, but that doesn't mean that it's a good thing.

And it's like, look, you're right. Do we live in a race to the bottom politics and all of this like nihilism and nothing matters? I mean, look, you might be right. You know, it's certainly possible. Is there any ideological consistency? No, but this is politics and this is Washington. It's always been that way. And in a sense, with the Fauci thing, I guess even in an Adam Schiff, others or whatever sweeping parties, pardons that they would enact, it would be the ultimate admission, maybe in a PR sense, that they didn't do anything wrong.

Or sorry, that they did do something wrong to issue them a quote unquote super party. I don't really think that's true. When you have, I mean, just when you have the rhetoric coming from Trump and the fact that, I mean, they previously in the past, like for example, they launched an investigation into John Kerry to basically like politically harass him in the previous Trump administration. So, and he was never found guilty of it. They never even filed charges against him. He's worth $500 million. I'm just saying. So I think he can afford the legal fees. Sure, sure. I'm not crying a river for John Kerry. I'm just saying the example already exists.

where it doesn't require guilt for them to come after these people, and they're already making lists, and they're already threatening even talk show hosts. Ari Melber was threatened as one example, so maybe they should issue blanket media pardons across the board too. Oh no, absolutely not. Come on, it'd be better for the country if these people were taken off.

theater. That would be a net positive. So I thought you, I thought you supported free speech. Of course I support free speech. Uh, absolutely. Did I think it was a good thing? No. Did I say it would be a net positive? Yes, it certainly would be. Uh, but it's like one of those where, look, I think in general, first of all, do I believe that he will be coming after talk show hosts? No, I don't. Um, second, uh, it's also, as I've said before, I also still believe in America's jurisprudence. If people genuinely are not guilty or any of that, then I think they'll probably be fine.

Now, again, in this case of Fauci and of a few of the others that are supposedly on this list, it would be anti-democratic to actually prevent the government from being able to look into any of these things. And look, maybe you can make a high IQ argument for it in the way that Ford pardoned Nixon, which was a crazy move when we look back on it.

He was like, the country needs to heal. Our long national nightmare is over and we need to move on. But, I mean, did that really provide like the real justice that a lot of people want? Because it wasn't about Nixon. It was really about the entire machine, you know, beneath and below him. Was that really a salve to the wounds that people felt? I would say no. Here's my high IQ take for you, Sagar. See what you think of this one. If Fauci's pardoned, then he can no longer plead the fifth.

True. And he's not in any legal jeopardy. He could say whatever. He can come clean. We could learn the truth. Yeah, you're not wrong. Maybe that would be a good trade. Maybe we'll take that trade. I don't know. I mean, I do want to hear it from his mouth that he lied. I do. I mean, look, we still need to know the details. Weren't we just talking about this exactly five years ago is when the first cases of COVID-19 were beginning to come. Well,

okay, the real first cases were when the lab leak happened in September 2019. Right. As we all know. But the first like international cases that people were beginning to, I think the first confirmed case in Wuhan was somewhere around five years ago. That was such a crazy time. And it was so wild too because remember at the beginning it was like only Tucker Carlson taking it

seriously because there was like this like anti-China lens to it and then totally we should have shut our borders totally flipped years ago my friend Balaji Sreenivasan I'll never forget he called me in January of 2020 and he's like you guys need to watch out he's like this thing is coming it's bad he's one of the first people who the one I remember is we had Matt Stoller on the show yeah Feb 2020 and he was like I

I don't know why we're just like bullshitting about whatever topic this is. In a few weeks, the whole country is going to be shut down and the whole world is going to be upended. And that's what I was like. He was right. He was right. I remember I was the first mask, you know, I'm almost ashamed of it. I was one of the first people to wear a mask. Oh, you were. Yeah, I remember. You were in...

Sagar was masking way before me. I had the mask. I had all the emergency supplies when you could still get them on Amazon. So I was luckily early. I still have the goggles and my entire survival kit. It's crazy. It feels so surreal that all of that actually happened. It was a wild time. Yeah. Absolutely. It was only five years ago. Crazy. Anyway. Okay. That was a fun show. I honestly enjoyed today. That was fun. We will have, if we need to, we'll come in with breaking news over the weekend. Otherwise, we'll see you all on

All right, we're all set for the party. I've trimmed the tree, hung the mistletoe, and paired all those weird-shaped knives and forks with the appropriate cheeses. And I plugged in the Bartesian. Bartesian? It's a home cocktail maker that makes over 60 premium cocktails, plus a whole lot of seasonal favorites, too. I just got it for

So how about a Closmopolitan or a mistletoe margarita? I'm thirsty. Watch. I just pop in a capsule, choose my strength, and... Wow. It's beginning to feel more seasonal in here already. If your holiday party doesn't have a bartender, then you become the bartender. Unless you've got a Bartesian. Because Bartesian crafts every cocktail perfectly in as little as 30 seconds. And I just got it for $50 off. Tis the season to be jollier.

Add some holiday flavor to every celebration with the sleek, sophisticated home cocktail maker, Bartesian. Pick up your phone and shake it to get $50 off any cocktail maker. Yes, you heard me. Shake your phone and get $50 off. Don't delay. Wouldn't it be nice if getting what you wanted didn't take so much work?

With Xfinity, finding what to watch is effortless. Just say movies into your Xfinity voice remote to see pics from your subscriptions all in one place. Plus, find more of what you love and jam out to iHeartRadio's iHeart Christmas and North Pole Radio hosted by Santa so you can skip the endless scroll and get right to the good stuff.

Looking for excitement? Chumba Casino is here. Play anytime, play anywhere. Play on the train, play at the store, play at home, play when you're bored. Play today for your chance to win and get daily bonuses when you log in. So what are you waiting for? Don't delay. Chumba Casino is free to play. Experience social gameplay like never before. Go to Chumba Casino right now to play hundreds of games, including online slots, bingo, slingo, and more. Live the Chumba life at chumbacasino.com. VGW Group. No purchase necessary. Void where prohibited by law. See terms and conditions.