A Booke of Christian Questions and Answers by Theodore Beza ~ Full Audiobook
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A book of Christian questions and answers by Theodore Beezer, translated by Arthur Golding. Who hath set us in this world? God of his own singular goodness. To what end? To the end that we should serve him, and that he should be glorified by giving eternal life unto us. Which is the way to worship him aright, and consequently to attain eternal life, and to glorify him duly?

Answer, To know and acknowledge him after the same manner that he hath disclosed himself unto us in his word. Question, What callest thou the word of God? Answer, That which the prophets and apostles have received by God's Spirit and committed to writing, which book we term by the name of the Old and New Testament. Question, Who then is the author of those books? Answer, God himself, and the writers or pens thereof were the prophets and apostles.

Question, how knowest thou that? Answer, the things themselves that are treated of in those writings, the majesty of God shining forth in that homeliness of speech, the heavenly pureness and singular holiness that uttereth itself everywhere in them, the most sure steadfastness of the principles whereupon that doctrine is grounded, and the laying together of the foresayings and of their fallings out, do enough and more than enough show these writings to be altogether divine and heavenly.

and that the same is the most perfect doctrine of truth, though all the world should say never so much to the contrary.

to the confirmation hereof maketh also the orderly success of things done, and the record of godly men delivered from hand to hand; and that I know these things in such wise as I fully agree to matters which men are wont partly to despise and laugh to scorn, and partly so to embrace as yet notwithstanding they wot not all what they believe, I impute it wholly to the Holy Ghost, who hath opened my heart that I may both hear and understand these secrets.

Q. Is all that we must believe to salvation comprehended in those writings? A. Altogether. Q. What is it then that the writings of the prophets and apostles do teach us chiefly to believe concerning God himself? A. That the essence of God is one, and the persons three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Q. What meanest thou by essence? A. I mean the nature that is common to those three persons. Q.

Q. What meanest thou by persons? A. I mean the very parties themselves that have their being in that nature. Q. These three persons, then, are they three gods, like as there be so many men as there be persons endued with human nature? A. No, not so, for these three several persons are all but one selfsame god. Q. Why so? A.

For inasmuch as God's essence is most single, infinite, and unable to be parted, therefore these three persons are not separated one from another, but only distinguished, so as the Father is not the Son or the Holy Ghost, but the Father only, nor the Son the Father.

nor the Holy Ghost, but the Son only, nor the Holy Ghost, the Father, or the Son, but the Holy Ghost only. And yet all those three several persons be one selfsame perfect God, of one everlastingness, of one essence, and of one equality, howbeit that in order, though not in degree, the Father is first, who is of none, the Son is second, who is of the Father, and the Holy Ghost is third, who is of the Father and of the Son.

both of them unspeakably by the everlasting communion of the whole essence of the Godhead, the Son begotten and the Holy Ghost proceeding. Question. Truly, as far as I see, the depth of this mystery is impossible to be uttered.

Answer. It is so indeed, if a man will seek a reason how that should come to pass, but we be sure it is so by the express word of God, and therefore we must believe and reverence the mystery that God hath opened unto us, and not search for the thing that he hath hidden from us, and which we be not able to conceive. Question. Doth this knowledge of God's essence suffice to save a man?

Answer, No, for besides many other things whereby God's nature is after a sort painted out unto us, lest we might surmise him to be like the things that are created, it standeth us chiefly on hand to know how he is minded towards us. Question, That thou mayest know this, what considerest thou chiefly in God? Answer, Perfect justice and perfect mercy. Question, What callest thou justice, and what callest thou mercy?

a these things are not in god as qualities but by god's justice i mean that god's nature is so pure and sound of itself that he utterly hateth and most severely punisheth all unrighteousness and by the name of perfect mercy i mean that whatsoever he bestoweth upon us and specially the benefit of everlasting life proceedeth wholly of his mere free gift and grace

Question, but these things agree not together, for how is he a most sore punisher for those things which he giveth of his mere grace? Answer, that these things do very well agree the Father hath well showed in his Son, who hath made full satisfaction for our sins, and is given unto us freely by the Father. Question, did not the Father then, or the Holy Ghost, abide the death for us?

Answer No, truly, none of them both, but alone the Son whom the Father sent, and whom the Holy Ghost teacheth and sealeth fast in us. Question Is not the Son very God by nature, and consequently the immortality itself, as well as the Father and the Holy Ghost? Answer Yes, neither were he our Saviour if he were not God. Question How then could he die? Answer

where, as by his Godhead he was the eternal life itself, he became man that he might die in the flesh.

Question, but the Son is God unchangeable, how then is he become man? Answer, not by mingling the natures or properties together, nor by any changing of God into man, or of man into God, of which things none of both is possible, but by so straight and familiar knitting of the Son's Godhead to the nature of man taken unto it, that the Son of God, being very God and very man, is henceforth one person, Jesus Christ. Question, and what manner of union is this?

a in greek it is called hypostatical and in english personal and so it is indeed q i pray thee describe it that it may be understood at leastwise after a sort

a the things are said to be united in nature which come together into one nature whether the same be done without any growing together mixing together or turning one into another like as the three persons of the godhead are most single substance or whether it be done by only knitting together like as the soul and body meet together as essential parts in making that which is man

or whether it be by means of some mixture or turning of the one into the other, like as befalleth in the interchange of the elements, and in things that be mixed. And things are said to be united personally, which are joined in such wise, as there riseth thereof but one selfsame person, like as the body and soul are so united to make the one nature of man, that they close together in one person or particular.

of this sort is also the union of the two natures in christ which join together not to make some one third thing as eutyches misweined but to make both one person without any confusion either of the natures themselves or of the essential properties

and i said an union of natures but not of persons lest it might be surmised that two persons were grown into one whereas in christ there is one nature which a man may see is peculiar to the word itself and in that nature resteth also the other nature that was taken to it that is to it the nature of man

for the person of god took not to it the person of man but the divine nature and that in the only person of the son that is to say in respect that the same godhead was the son and not in respect that it was either the father or the holy ghost took unto it man's nature destitute of own personship as i might term it

therefore to be short like as in the godhead there be three persons coming together in one selfsame nature even so in christ there be two natures joined together in the one person of the son

So as the three persons are not three gods, but one God, by reason of the most single uniting of the three persons into one selfsame nature, neither are there two Christs, but one Christ, by reason not of two perfect persons, but of two perfect natures joined together, not to make some one third nature, but united into the person of the Son, in which person both the natures are upheld. Question. Neither comprehend I this secret."

Answer, Then yet again reverence thou the thing that thou comprehendest not, for all the whole scripture crieth out that it is most true. And if it were not so, he should not be a Jesus, that is to say a Saviour, to us, nor yet Christ, that is to say anointed as our sovereign and everlasting King, Prophet, and Priest.

Q. But could not God have saved man by some other means, less removed from our capacities? A. Certus he could, but this was the most convenient means for him to show, as well his singular justice as his singular mercy. Q. How so?

Answer, because that if he had either saved us without full satisfaction, or exacted the same satisfaction by any other than of the nature that was indebted, he might have seemed to have been unmindful of his justice, and therefore it was requisite that our Saviour should be a man. But had he been but only man, he should never have discharged God's wrath, and so consequently he should not have been able to wind himself out of it, and much less to deliver us.

and therefore it behoved that the flesh which was taken should be sustained and borne up by the nature of the Godhead, most perfectly united unto it. Furthermore, as concerning mercy, there could be given any surer, evidenter, yea, or more divine assurance of the most perfect mercifulness, than that the Father hath given his own only Son for his enemies, and the Son likewise given his own life willingly for us that are most unworthy. Question. It is even so, but was not Christ himself guiltless?

Answer, Yes, forsooth. And therefore he was conceived by the Holy Ghost, in the Virgin Mary, not only without any spot of uncleanness, but also endued with most singular soundness and pureness in his flesh. For otherwise he should have need of another to be his saviour. Neither could his ablation have pleased God, neither truly could God have found in his heart to have united himself to so unclean a nature. Question,

could it then stand with the nature of the sovereign justice to exact punishment for other folks sins at the hands of a man that was most guiltless yea and also most holy a indeed the father might have seemed to do his son wrong if he had punished him as an offender

he struck him therefore not as an offender but as one that of his own accord was willing to yield himself as a borrow or surety for the unrighteous and therefore the father did nothing that might not well stand with his justice question but why was he condemned at the bar before the judge and also executed by the death of the cross seeing he could have died otherwise also for us

to the end it might thereby the better appear that he became accursed for our sakes and that he took upon him the whole wrath of his father against our sins to set us at full liberty question but death is incident to the body only and therefore by this death of his he seemeth to have discharged but only our bodies and yet notwithstanding all of us die still whereupon it seemeth to follow that he saveth neither body nor soul

a it was requisite that christ should take unto him both soul and body together that he might both die for the first death is the separation of the soul from the body and also that being become perfect man he might deliver men whole and perfect question meanest thou then that he suffered also the pains whereunto our souls are subject

answer yea verily for it is even the chiefest part of christ's sufferings that besides the extreme torments of most cruel death he also endured for our sakes the most horrible weight of god's wrath than the which nothing can be more dreadful during which time his godhead did as it were rest in him all the while to the intent that the manhood which he had taken unto him although it quite quailed not under the burden which otherwise had been intolerable to the very angels

might notwithstanding most sharply feel and finally bear out god's whole wrath unutterably inflamed against all the sins of all the chosen even till satisfaction were made to the full therefore at what time he hung upon the cross he was also in the midst of the torments of hell that he might fully deliver us from both the deaths q but i pray you if he came to deliver us from death why did he himself die

answer because that else the said sovereign justice of god which it behoved to be satisfied should not appear in our redemption and therefore the most glorious is christ's victory even in this respect that he overcame death by dying

Q. Why, then, do the chosen sort die, seeing Christ hath vanquished death for them? A. Because Christ is not come to restore us into the same state of this world which we have lost in Adam, but to remove us into far better immortality, the thing which cannot be done except we depart out of this world.

Therefore, albeit that this separation of the soul and body, which is called the first death, sprang of sin, the remnants whereof are even in the holiest men. Yet notwithstanding, if ye mark well the purpose and drift of God, he strikes not the chosen with it properly as a judge, but sends it to them as a most loving father that calls away his children home to himself. And therefore it not only frayeth not the believers, but also refresheth and cheereth them."

question why then did not that power of his utter itself out of hand against death a verily it uttered itself out of hand inasmuch as his body suffered not any corruption nevertheless it was his will to have it lie buried for a space both to the intent that his being dead indeed and his death being confirmed also by the seals of his enemies

might prove his resurrection which was to ensue anon after and also to the intent he might like a conqueror pursue death fleeing away before him into his innermost dungeon and consequently perfume our graves with the quickening scent of his own death q is his resurrection then a witness that he undertook to die willingly to purchase immortality for us

a it is so for he is risen by his own power never to die any more to the end that we also should be quickened in him for evermore q but why went he up into heaven and not rather tarried still with us

Answer, in body he is verily, and indeed gone away from us among whom he was, and is mounted above all heavens, where he was not afore in body, both to the intent that he being the first that is risen from death, might first take possession of the heavenly kingdom, triumphing over his vanquished enemies, and also to teach us to high us thitherward where he hath prepared a place for us.

and yet is he all the while present with us by his spirit governing his church as the head governeth the members that be joined unto it question then hath he shifted his place to go thitherward whereas is no place

Answer, it is so, he hath changed place, according as the thing done witnesseth, and according as the veriness of a body, yea, though it be glorified, requireth. But his changing of place is according to that nature which is bounded, and that is done not to forsake us, for inasmuch as Christ is one person, God and man together, he is nevertheless still present with his servants by his whole power, because he is very God.

but to withdraw us from the earth and to teach us to seek heavenly things and whereas thou sayest there is no place whither as he is ascended it is a fond imagination let this suffice thee namely that the godhead only is infinite and that all other things either in heaven or above heaven or in earth or in the bottomless deeps and consequently his body

which though it be a glorified body is notwithstanding still a man's body are according to the nature of them finite and bounded with place and how they be contained in that eternal glory we shall then perceive when we come thither ourselves question thou seemest then to divide christ or to make two christs of whom the one is present and the other is away

a when i say that christ is absent as concerning his flesh and yet avouch him to be verily present both as concerning his godhead and also if he be considered as a whole thing that is to say as one person god and man i divide him not but take away the confounding of his natures q what is meant by his sitting at the right hand of the father

Answer, that he, having laid aside not the veriness of his flesh, but all infirmity and frailty of the flesh, is now advanced to such a state of glory as surmounteth all name. That is to wit, that his flesh is already glorified by the Godhead, which dwelleth bodily in it without bereaving it of the own essence or essential properties, and that it ordereth and ruleth all things in heaven and earth with full power, saving him that hath made all things subject unto it.

Q. What meanest thou by essential properties? A. That which being taken away, the thing must of necessity no more be that which it was afore. As, for example, if a body be bereft of quantity, it must of necessity cease to be a body. Q. But God is almighty. A. Who denies that?

q ergo he can bring to pass that one selfsame body may either be in many places at once or somewhere as in a place or other somewhere not as in a place but after some other incomprehensible manner

a that god can cause a thing that is not to be any more as well as he hath caused the thing to be which was not no man doubteth except he be stark mad and therefore a much less likelihood is it that he should not be able to alter the shapes and qualities of things at his pleasure but to bring to path that a thing should at once both be and not be or at once be of such sort and not of such sort god cannot do because he cannot lie

and not to be able to lie is not a sign of weakness, but of invariable mightiness. Question. Then do you conclude that Christ is now absent from us as concerning his manhood? Answer. Yea, and so far off from us, as the earth where we be, is distant from the place which is above all the heavens, whither that flesh of his is carried up. Question. Yet hath he himself said that he was then in heaven when he talked with Nicodemus upon earth?

a this and such other things are meant by communicating of properties q what callest thou property a that which logicians call propere after the fourth manner as for example to be infinite is a property in the nature of the godhead and quantity is a property in all things created and specially in bodily things

q then is this communicating false forasmuch as such manner of property ceaseth to be proprae or peculiar as soon as it becometh common a this latter part i simply grant unto but not unto the other

but these two things seem to stick inseparably together. Answer, then, take you the case to stand thus, either of Christ's natures, that is to say his Godhead and his manhood, keep still their essential properties to themselves, without communicating them one to the other. According, as I have said already, which thing, unless we grant, infinite and utterly wicked absurdities will ensue, for if his Godhead should receive into itself the properties of his manhood,

it should be transformed into manhood. And contrarywise, if his manhood should admit into itself the properties of his Godhead, it should become a certain counterfeit Godhead, so as Christ might be said to be neither very God nor very man. And so consequently, he should not be our Saviour. And therefore there is not any intercommuning either of natures or of essential properties. For look how false and wicked are these propositions. Flesh is the Godhead, and the Godhead is flesh."

Even so false and wicked are these also, Christ's flesh is everywhere, or Christ is everywhere as touching his flesh, and Christ's Godhead is not everywhere, or Christ is not everywhere as touching his Godhead. Most false of all, then, are these, the Godhead was crucified, or died, and Christ's flesh is infinite. Now, although these two natures, together with their essential properties, cannot communicate each with other as I said afore,

yet are they united in such sort as they make but one self-same party or one person only therefore look how false are the said speeches the godhead is flesh and flesh is the godhead so true and catholic are these god that is to wit the word is a man and a man is god

and that is by reason of the unity of the persons which springeth not of the communicating of natures for as i told you there is no such thing unless ye take communicating for union which were too unproper but of the uniting of natures for god is not a man in that he is god which thing must notwithstanding needs follow if the nature of the very essences

that is to say of the Godhead and of the manhood, communicated each with other, that is to wit, were the one as well as the other. But in another respect, that is to wit, in that he hath united a man unto him, neither is a man God, in that he is a man, but in another respect, namely, in that he is united unto God. And look what I have said concerning the natures, the same must also be understood concerning the essential properties, which are uncommunicable as well as the other."

most true therefore are these speeches and they must be laid forth in former wise god that is to wit the word was conceived born suffered was crucified died was buried and rose again namely in that he was united a man unto him and not in that he is god

so also are these speeches a man is eternal infinite and invisible son of god filling all things etc not as in himself that is to say not in that he is man or by any communicating of properties but in that he is taken into one person by the son of god

but these manner of speeches seem hard and very strange answer nay truly if thou wouldst cast away thy misconceived and prejudicial opinion thou shouldst find them to be exceeding fit to set forth the union of the natures

which is so great that look what thing cannot be said of the several that is to wit of the godhead by itself or of the manhood by itself the same may very well be attributed to either of both jointly that is to wit either to god or to the man and that is because that of the two natures there is not made one nature but one person

And therefore we avouch that in the natures there is an union, and not an unity, and the unity is of the person only, whereupon it cometh to pass that the whole person not only is signified by the name of the whole person, that is to say by Jesus, which comprehendeth both the natures united together, but also is meant by the name of either of both the natures, that is to say by the Son of God and the Son of man, howbeit as considered jointly and not severally.

so also whereas the name christ that is to say anointed agreeeth properly but to the manhood only for the godhead was not anointed but did anoint yet doth it betoken the whole person

and it is a common ordinary matter in all things to speak of persons after the like manner to shew the uniting of the parts of which the unity of the person consisteth so this manner of speech peter is an apostle is as proper as may be agreeing to peter's whole person and to the several parts thereof that is to wit both to his soul and his body

but this manner of speech peter is the son of jonas agreeth to him as he is whole together and as he is considered to be some whole thing that is to wit as he is considered by unity of person and not to both the several parts of him

saving in respect of the one part only namely of the body except perhaps thou thinkest that the soul also is begotten it is a like form of speech when we term any man a mortal creature or a reasonable creature which term doubtless do fitly agree to the whole man as he is whole by reason of the unity of his person and yet that is but in respect of some one of his parts only

yea truly the force of this personal union is so great that a man may speak of it in the same phrases of speech still even after it is dissolved as if a man should say peter lieth buried at rome for we will put the case to be so the proposition shall be true and yet but in respect of his body only albeit that peter that is to say the whole person be named

Question. Wherefore dost thou then term it a communicating of properties, if there be no communicating of natures and essential properties indeed? By communicating of properties we mean not the very personal union or the manner of the union, but the report that is made by reason of the personal union of the two natures, in which report the essential property or the operation that agreeth to some one of the natures is attributed to the person in jointness and not in severalness.

and forasmuch as this report is true there must needs also be truth contained under it howbeit in the aforesaid respect that is to say of the whole person considered jointly together then concludest thou again that christ as concerning his flesh is departed verily and indeed out of the earth up above all the heavens and therefore is absent from us that are upon earth

answer so is it and yet i grant that christ being man is still present with us howbeit in another respect than of his manhood that is to wit in that the self-same christ which is man is god also

Yea, and if thou wilt, I grant thee thus much more, that Christ's manhood also is present, howbeit in other respect, that is to wit, not in itself, or in its own substance, but in respect that it cleaveth by personal union unto the word, which is everywhere, and therefore also is in very deed in his supper. Question, what doth Christ then avail us now as touching his flesh, if he have forsaken us?

answer nay he hath not forsaken us inasmuch as even now also in his glorified flesh he disposeth all things both in heaven and earth and hath received a name that is above all names at his father's hand by virtue of which authority he quickeneth cherisheth and governeth his church by his word by his secret and unutterable power

And therewithal reigneth in the midst of all his enemies. And in heaven he maketh intercession to his Father, until the time that the last enemy, namely death, be utterly put to flight. Question, I pray you, what manner of intercession is this that you speak of? Answer, he maketh intercession first in pacifying the Father towards us by the continual freshness of his own innocency and obedience. And secondly, because we cannot call upon the Father aright but in his name.

so as he steppeth evermore as an atonement maker betwixt us and the father to the end that whatsoever we offer to the father may be well accepted as for the suit that some men dream that christ should make with kneeling down at his father's feet it is but fond device of such men as have no skill to put a difference betwixt christ when he was in weakness and christ being now in glory nor finally to discern heavenly things from earthly things

Question. What thinkest thou then of them which do so willfully maintain that Christ is not a mediator in respect of both his natures? Answer. I think them to be the devil's instruments prepared to hinder the work of the Lord, which thing experience itself hath taught us. Question. But to be a means betokeneth a place beneath the highest, and it belongeth to the lesser person to make means to the greater person.

Hereupon I gather that they seem to be Arians which hold opinion that Christ is a means and a means-maker or mediator as touching his Godhead also.

answer i should wonder that in so great light of the gospel there could be any found that would suffer themselves to be beguiled with so trifling toys if the deed itself berate not that they never followed god's gospel with the right zeal i speak of the wilful sort and of such as are condemned by their own judgment

Question, but this is no answering. Answer, the shamefulness of the matter compelled me to bust out of these words, because I see so many have shrunk away upon so small occasion, or none, first unto the heresy of Arius, afterwards to the surmised opinion of three gods, and finally to the devilish dotages of Samasata. Go to, therefore, and let us inquire of them severally in order. End of section 1.

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You save. Go to selectquote.com slash spotifypod today to get started. 1. Section 2 of A Book of Christian Questions and Answers by Theodore Beezer, translated by Arthur Golding. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain. Question. Thinkest thou then that to be a means is another thing than to be a mediator or a mean-maker? Answer.

yea truly for the word mean may betoken but the quality or state of a person and so the thing that is betwixt two other more things may be deemed a mean or a middle thing but a mediator or means maker betokeneth an umper or atonement seeker which are things so far diverse that one may be a mediator or means maker which notwithstanding is not of a mean or middle degree

as when we seek to set men at one and contrariwise one may be of a mean or middle degree and yet it shall not follow of necessity that he is a mediator question but christ is both a mean and a mediator

Answer, I grant it. Question, if he be a mean, in that he is the word, or the son, then it followeth that the son is inferior to the father, namely, as if he were endued with some kind of Godhead, that were a mean between the Godhead of the father and the nature of man. Answer, then wilt thou have Christ to be a mean, as touching the one of his natures only, that is to wit, as touching his manhood, or else to be no mean at all? Question, nay, but answer me first to my demand.

Answer. I answer then, that, have thou an eye to whither of his natures thou list alone by itself, Christ cannot be said to be a mean, for in that he is the Son he is equal with the Father, and in that he is man he is equal with the residue of men. Therefore stood the manhood on hand of necessity to borrow this effectual working at the hand of the divine nature that took unto it.

Therefore, in this work of mediation, that is to say of reconciliation or atonement, some doings are attributed to the whole person of Christ, that is to say to both his natures working together, some to his Godhead severally by itself, and some to his manhood severally by itself, but to conclude, none of both his natures hath the mediatorship by itself alone."

Question. But what shall we believe concerning the office of intercession? For surely he that maketh intercession for another is inferior unto him to whom the intercession is made.

Answer, Nay, that is untrue. For what should let but that one equal may entreat another his equal, or the superior may entreat his inferior for another man? And therefore it should not follow that the son were lesser than the father, although he had taken this charge upon him, or his own will, even without taking any flesh unto him.

But I have showed already how the things that are written of Christ's intercession must not be restrained to the reason that agreeeth with the sovereignties and degrees of this world. Moreover, how the word is a mean between the Father and us, in repeat of the union of the two natures, and how he is the mediator between the Father and us in respect of his office, I have showed even now.

Q. They say also, it should seem that the Godhead maketh intercession to itself, if Christ should be called an intercessor in respect also that he is God. A.

They say so indeed, but very unskilfully, for although the Godhead, being a thing undividable, be whole and perfect as well in the Son as in the Father and in the Holy Ghost, yet notwithstanding, when we consider the Godhead of the persons, we consider it not without relation of one person to another. And therefore put the case, which thing is most true, that Christ maketh intercession for us to the Father, even in his Godhead united to the manhood, which he took unto it.

yet shall it not follow that he maketh intercession to himself seeing that the father is one and the son is another in several persons thoroughly distinct albeit that the father and the son be both one thing and one god if the essence of them be considered without their persons for like as in christ incarnate there be several things and not several persons so in the godhead they be several persons but not several things question what opinion hast thou of praying unto angels and saints deceased

a that is wicked idolatry question yet it may be that they which pray unto angels and saints deceased cannot away with the making of any images

again ye should have made a distinction between such as pray to the true and blessed angels or to the souls of them that were godly and holy men indeed and such as worship counterfeit angels that is to say fiends or which worship such manner of gods as although they were gods yet should they even by their own confession be but wicked gods

I grant, not only that some sins are more heinous than others, but also that such as are guilty of one selfsame sin are not always alike guilty. Nevertheless, he that sinneth the grievouslyer dischargeth not him that sinned less heinously, out of the number of offenders. And therefore let us suffer all this gear to slip, whereof there is no question betwixt us."

Idols are conceived in fond fancy, and brought forth by the hand. Therefore are they idolaters also, whose idol lurketh like a shapeless conception in the womb of their imagination. Neither is there any kind of idol more ugly than this which is set up in the very bowels of the mind. Question. But why callest thou that thing idolatry, which leaneth upon good reason? Answer.

fie on that reason which not only leaneth not to god's word but also fighteth fully against it and yet i see not what good reason may be alleged to defend so gross a wickedness question i pray thee show me why thou sayest so

answer to call upon one that is absent whom thou canst not make privy to the meaning of thy mind it is a point of extreme blockishness and to suppose that the souls of such as be deceased either be present everywhere or if they be absent and hear men's words do nevertheless perceive the thoughts of their minds

i say that both of them are manifest and horrible sins of idolatry at least wise if it be idolatry to father that thing upon the creature which is proper or peculiar to god alone and whereas they make exception that god discloseth our petitions unto the saints or else that the saints behold all things in i wot not what a wonderful glass of the trinity

look how easy a matter it is for them to say it so easy is it for us to shake it off as a foolish and gross forgery moreover as concerning the angels we hear indeed that the lord useth their service in defending his children and no doubt but they execute their charge as is enjoined them and are careful after their manner for the welfare of the godly but what makes this that we should pray to them

for how may that be done in faith seeing we know not neither when they come nor when they go nor when they be present nor when they be absent nor find any word or example of it in the holy bible but rather that the angels have not admitted so much as any outward religious reverencing

finally seeing there is none in the whole world to be compared either in power or love towards us unto christ god and man which sitteth at the right hand of the father making intercession for us as the only mediator between god and men whereupon sprang the rabble of petty intercessors but of manifest distrust in him

and as for the unfailing love of the saints which many men harp upon although it be true yet notwithstanding it is so awfully applied for the proof of praying to saints as it needeth no disproof at all yet notwithstanding we pray one for another and desire one of us the prayers of another and in so doing the apostle hath done before us by his own example

ergo to require the intercession of some others besides Christ. It no wit impeacheth the office of the only mediator, and to whom we say not pray for us, but have mercy upon us. Answer. First, we are sure that the maintainers of this praying to angels and dead

dead folks hold not themselves within those bounds, but do crave their help in their dangers and distresses no less than the openest idolaters that ever were, did in old time crave help at the hand of the petty gods that were under the throne of their Jupiter, again for the members of one body to request one of us to pray for another, so long as we may be able to advertise one another of our affairs in this life,

is truly no point of praying unto men or of thrusting mediators in christ's stead as they do but rather a calling upon our common father together with our brethren in the name of the one mediator aforesaid the which one-mindedness is a most acceptable sacrifice unto god question but the holy ghost himself is said to make intercession for us with unspeakable groanings

a that is because he teacheth us to groan and to pray aright according also as the same apostle maketh him to cry out q but when shall this intercession be at an end a truly never

for even at such time as it shall appear that we be with god our cleaving unto him shall not be but by the stepping in of our mean and mediator and consequently of our head jesus christ whose reigning and person are everlasting in the same respect

yet notwithstanding the whole manner of ruling and governing the church that is now used shall utterly cease after that the last enemy that is to it death is put away and all the chosen are taken up with their head into everlasting life and so god shall be all in all question but paul saith that this kingdom or reigning shall be yielded up to the father and that christ shall become subject unto him

Answer, Paul verily having an eye unto Christ as to the Son of God indeed, albeit as manifest in the flesh, and joined with his members, doth worthily attribute the chief glory to the Godhead, which shall at that time be most of all disclosed when all enemies be overcome.

and truly this subjection betokeneth something inferior to the godhead for the creature shall never be made equal with the creator no not even in christ but yet it doth us to understand that the chief blessedness

next to that which is peculiar to the godhead consisteth in this point that god accepting us and our head together in respect that he is man for his dear and faithful subjects will then at length give us the fulness of felicity and punish the rest as rebels with endless pains

but whereas it is said that he will come at the last day to judge both the quick and the dead there is some hardness in that saying for it appeareth by many places of the scriptures and especially by the story or parable of the rich glutton that every man's judgment lighteth upon him immediately after his departure out of this life whether he be godly or ungodly

god doth after a sort execute his judgment even then insomuch as it is not to be doubted but that the souls of the godly whom christ doth gladly receive have a foretaste of the eternal happiness and contrariwise that the souls of the ungodly have a forefeeling of the horribleness of eternal death

notwithstanding besides that the said fore-judgment hath respect only to their souls while their bodies lie still asleep in the dust the full declaration and executing of the judgment whereby the whole man shall either be made owner of eternal life or else be cast into endless torment is delayed to the last day of the general resurrection

Question. By the dead then thou meanest not them that shall be dead at such time as they shall be judged, but such as have been dead before and shall rise again. Which then be the quick ones that thou matchest against the dead ones? Answer. They be those whom Christ shall then find still alive in this world at the second coming of his which shall be most glorious.

the sudden changing of which men into the one state or the other of the life to come that is to wit either of endless death or of everlasting life shall be unto them instead of bodily death and rising again as the apostle teacheth question how are they said to be damned to endless death who notwithstanding are risen again never to die any more answer because that to live in so horrible torments both of soul and body deserveth not the name of life but rather of death

Question. But the resurrection, is it not in general of God's goodness? Yea, and that in Christ, who is the firstfruits of them that rise?

Answer, like as the Father created all things in the Son, so also shall the wicked receive life again in him, that is to say, by the operation of his power. And yet, for all that, the blessing of life shall turn to a curse in the ungodly, like as all other things do. The wicked therefore shall not rise again by the benefit and virtue of Christ's resurrection, for this resurrection is knit unto blessed life with an inseparable knot.

and therefore none but only such as believe in christ and are truly grafted into him are made partakers of that but by the power and authority of the son as he is a judge who at the same time that he pronounced the sentence of double death and especially of eternal death against all mankind did even then condemn all men in the penalty of rising again saving those whom he should preserve from death

for how should the punishment of the wicked be everlasting as it must needs be if their bodies should continue for ever in the dust utterly void of all feeling question nevertheless seeing that the body moveth not of itself but only is the instrument of the soul it seemeth to stand with equity that the whole punishment of sin or the whole glory of righteousness should have cleaved to men's souls

Answer, the whole scripture speaketh against it, as often as it maketh mention of the resurrection, which doubtless agreeth not properly to the soul. Again, although the body sin not of itself alone, yet doth the whole man sin, and therefore he is justly punished whole. And Christ were not a perfect redeemer if he should let the bodies of his servants lie still in rottenness. Neither had he needed to have taken a body unto him, if he had come to deliver no more but our souls.

Q. But what manner of life shall that eternal life be, and what manner of death shall that eternal death be? A. It is to no purpose to search for these things, not only because such curiousness is to be condemned, as driveth men to demand the things that the Lord hath as yet hidden from us, but also because it is a point of extreme madness to be desirous to comprehend that which a man is not able to conceive. Q.

if we were now able to conceive that blissfulness we should already after a sort possess it inasmuch as the understanding of man doth at leastwise so far forth enjoy the thing that is to be understood as it conceiveth it in understanding the like also is to be thought of the everlasting pains whereof we see that even a very light conceit of them doth now and then drive men to despair and to horrible facts

now then that men feel not as yet the horribleness of the fire any fuller it is to be imputed to god's forbearing who as yet delayeth his wrath therefore let us rather seek by what way we come to it that we may hold the way of life

let us settle ourselves in the things that the Lord hath opened unto us concerning those matters in his word namely that the happiness of the godly and the unhappiness of the ungodly shall be so great that the manner and measure of none of them both can be comprehended by us as now question then which is the way to eternal life answer even Christ as he himself witnesseth neither is there any other way that leadeth unto life

Q. And yet he quickeneth not all men. A. I grant that he quickeneth none but those that walk in this way. And to walk in this way is to join a man's self unto Christ, yea, and after a sort to incorporate himself into him by believing. Q. What callest thou faith?

Answer, the faith or belief whereby the children of light differ from the children of darkness is not simply that insight, which the devils have as well as they, whereby it cometh to pass that a man acknowledgeth the things to be true which are contained in the writings of the prophets and apostles, but moreover, it is a steadfast ascent of the mind accompanying the same insight, whereby it cometh to pass that each man applieth particularly to himself the promise of everlasting life in Christ, in case as if he were in full possession of it already."

Q. Whither doth nature yield us this faith, or doth grace give it? Or whether doth partly nature and partly grace give it? A. Only the mere grace of God, which begetteth us anew. Q. Are there not common insights and feelings of God in the nature of man, though he be corrupted? A. Yes, verily there be, albeit even as some rubbuses of a very princely building.

again i say thus much that this faith is not grounded in natural insights but there must further be added the things that god hath disclosed to the world peculiarly by his prophets and apostles

which things flesh and blood could never have once thought of lastly this thing also is to be marked wherein consisteth as it were the special and peculiar difference of faith namely that each man must apply the promise of eternal life in christ peculiarly to himself by believing which testimony the scripture calleth assured persuasion

Question. I pray you, let us step a little aside to discourse of man's corruption. First, I demand, what thing thou thinkest to be corrupted in the nature of man, and secondly, what manner of corruption the same is, and lastly, what remedy there is against it? Answer. To the first demand, I answer, that the whole man is corrupted, yea, and so corrupted, that St. Paul's saying, namely, that we be dead in our sins, is to be understood of either part of man.

Q. Doth this corruption touch the very substance of him? A. Yea, indeed doth it, as concerning the body, which even therefore is become mortal. But of the soul we must think otherwise. Q. What shall we think then of the corruption of the soul? A. That it is corrupted in qualities, which for instruction's sake I make to be two, namely reason and will. Q. Dost thou then place qualities in the soul? A.

Answer, I do so, albeit agreeable to a spiritual and single nature. Otherwise, if a soul or a spirit be nothing else but a substance, then let us make as many undergods as there be souls of men. But to the end we may eschew many cramped school-points at once. Ye shall understand that I admit but one soul in a man, for I read not that there were any more created, and I deem it an absurdity that any one body should be endued with any more souls than one.

Also, by the qualities of the souls I mean two things. That is to wit, first, the powers grounded in the soul, which I say are no less to be distinguished, albeit by such distinction as agreeeth to a spiritual nature, from the very substance of the soul itself, that the power of drawing steel is distinguished from the substance of the adamant, and secondly, the soundness, or the rightness, or, as Moses termeth it, the goodness of the same powers, which I said to be two,

q well then considering that the fall of man can never be sufficiently understood and described they that avouch original sin to consist only in accidents or qualities seem to take it but for some superficial blemish that sticketh as it were but to the skin

these be fond conceits of foolish men and after the same sort did satan in times past beguile some men that would needs rest the christian principles to the ragged rule of their own most foolish reason by those qualities i mean not some accidents or byfalls but things that stick in the very nature itself and yet may be dissevered from the very substance and as it were from the ground-work itself wherein they be not in very deed but by reason and in thought

Q. Your saying, then, in effect, is that the qualities of the soul are corrupted and not the substance of it. A. I say so, and I say further, that the contrary opinion is the certain and the open way to epicuriousness, that is to say, to maintain the mortality or dying of the soul. For grant we once never so little corruption of the substance of the soul, we must needs confess that the soul itself is in danger of dying.

again if the whole soul be corrupted then must the whole soul needs die out of hand but if the corruption be in some part of the soul how can there be any division of parts in a single substance such as the soul is therefore whosoever will maintain this so awkward wicked opinion had need to be stark mad and no less blind than they need be that should give ear to him question let us leave this gear for those to delight in upon whom the lord shall execute his rightful judgments

Now proceed and tell me what the same corruption is. Answer. Neither reason nor will is taken away, as I said even now, for had they been taken quite away, the soul of man must needs have perished, or utterly been none at all. But both these powers are so sore defaced, that whereas the eye of understanding ought to have been most clear, according as it was before the fall, now especially in matters pertaining to God and concerning right conscience—

it partly seeth nothing at all no not even when the light of the creator is set before it according as it is to be seen in the chief points of the true religion the which man's reason not only loatheth but also fighteth against them as fond and false with tooth and nail

and partly if it see it seeth very dimly so as those small sparks of glimmering light that were left in man to the end he should be utterly inexcusable of which sparks there is no man but he hath some bread in his mind

and many more have been found out by men in bending themselves to the considering of higher things do by and by leave a man at his first step into the gate of truth and therefore are far unable so to foreguide him as he may attain to the privities of truth

and furthermore as concerning uprightness to be maintained between man and man although the eyesight of man's mind be somewhat less dull in those matters verily because god so moderateth his just judgment as the fellowship of mankind out of which be gathered his church might the easier be preserved which otherwise would perish out of hand according to the desert of man's fall

if all discerning of right and wrong and of virtue and vice had been taken quite away out of men's minds yet notwithstanding right great is the blindness of men both in discussing of general grounds but specially in discussing of matters debatable

which thing is manifestly proved by the repugnancy which is found not only in the opinions of the common people when there be as many wits as there be heads but also even in the judgments of the wise philosophers and law-makers wherein many have wearied themselves of late to no purpose to make them agree together now come i down to the other power of the mind which is the seat of the affections and whereas the same ought to be ruled by reason as by a waggon-guider

yet notwithstanding how often doth it harry him headlong away and no marvel seeing that sometimes it carrieth always even the very soul itself

i forbear to speak of the heavy unruliness of all the natural affections which inconvenience reason fighting against it doth after a sort see and find fault with but only god's law doth utterly discover it and to the increase of that darkness wherewith the power of understanding and willing is overcast yet is there another worser inconvenience namely that reason sucketh upon untruth and wrestleth wilfully against god's wisdom even when she is convicted

and the will is carried wilfully into vice even against the reprehensions of reason, such as they be, and is not able either to seek or to shun anything aright, because she is wholly a slave unto sin. Question. Are we blocks, then? Answer. No, for when I say that man's understanding and will are blind and froward, I do not utterly bereave him of the power of understanding and willing. Question. Ergo thou takest away free will.

Answer, if by free you mean willing or unconstrained, I am so far from taking that away, that contrarywise I say the whole mind is willingly and of its own accord carried unto evil. But if thou take freeness to be never so small an ableness of itself either of both, that is to say, to be inclined of itself as well to the thing that is good indeed as to the thing that is evil, I

I do flatly deny, upon warrant of the testimonies of the whole scripture, which in manner are infinite, considering that, of all the whole number of men, the saints only accepted, ye cannot bring me one that hath known the true goodness, and much less coveted it. Question. In what case, then, dost thou make thee philosophical virtues to be?

Answer. First I say that many of the true virtues never came in the minds of the philosophers if they were not Christians. Secondly, the same virtues which they knew are not described fully enough by them. And finally, that there was never any man found in any age that was endued so much as with the philosophical virtues, except he were regenerated. Question. But surely the philosophical virtues are not sins? Answer.

answer yes truly even sins if sin be an unlawfulness that is to say any manner of thing that steppeth never so little aside from the law of the lord question but if thou infer necessity of sinning as needs thou must infer it if thou take away consultation and election thou seemest thereby to take away sin

answer this consequence is many ways false for necessity excuseth not sin if a man have willingly cast himself into the fetters of it and as for this necessity whereof i now treat it is not of nature but of man's own wilful fall

again i take away neither deliberation nor choice but i say that the man which is not regenerated cannot but misconsult or misadvise himself and also mis-elect or mischoose by reason that his power of understanding and willing is utterly corrupted question but it seemeth a mockery to think that there is a choice except ye admit it as a mean betwixt good and evil

Answer, Nay, rather, it is a mockery which thou speakest. For there is a kind of choice also even between evil and evil. And therefore look when reason counselleth that which is less evil, and will either embraceth that which is the worse, as commonly it is wont to do, or else suffereth itself to be ruled by reason, then doubtless doth it choose, howbeit always evil. Question, Nay, surely it is not the nature of reason to counsel evil.

Answer, Soothly, so doth reason bear herself in hand, for evil putteth upon it the countenance of good to make reason to like of it. But the true rule to discern good and bad by must be searched out of God's law, and not out of man's corrupted understanding. Therefore even the very same thing which the natural man, as the apostle termeth him, thinketh to be good, and coveteth as good, is by God's spirit termed evil, as always stepping somewhat aside from that which is rightly good.

For surely, as for the thing that gusheth out of so unclean a sink, although now and then it be not altogether so foul as the very filth of the sink itself, yet must it needs be unclean. Question. Yet do I not perceive how the thing may be called free, which of necessity is carried but to the one part only? Question. Yet do I not perceive how the thing may be called free, which of necessity is carried but to the one part only? Answer. Then

then remember thyself that there is a difference between compulsion and necessity for many things that are of necessity are also willingly of which sort i think thou wilt not deny that christ's death was one but nothing can be both of compulsion and of willingness together no not even in those things which we are most unwilling to do as when seamen suffer loss

again i pray thee look a little nearlier how thou mayest define freeness for whether of these thinkest thou is more free he that is in such state as he may be either free or bound or he that is so free as he can by no means so much think of being bound

truly if thou take that to be free will which may be led either to good or to evil thou shalt quite bereave both god and the angels yea and us also after we be taken up into heaven of that freeness yea and it seemeth that this also may be doubted whether the first man were endued with the said freeness of debating on either part before he had given ear to satan for how could evil come in question seeing it was not yet entered into the world

so as it seemeth to me that before that time adam was of his own accord with his whole mind and body disposed to good only without any contrary thought or debating at all and much more without any purpose all which things satan hath brought into man's disposition by putting concupiscence or lust into us rightly therefore was that tree called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil inasmuch as before the eating thereof man neither knew nor coveted anything but only good

The forgetfulness whereof is so overspread by eating of that tree, that ever since men have not ceased to debate of the ends of good and bad, though they themselves be shut up within the bound of evil. The conclusion is this, that they only are endued with free will which are set free from the bondage of sin, and of this freedom which shall never be thoroughly perfect till we be utterly sinless in the other life eternal. They have the Spirit of God for an assured pledge."

Question. Then, in the receiving of the first grace, men do but suffer the grace of God to be wrought in them and are not joint workers with the grace.

Answer, Truly, if ye have an eye to the order of the causes and the first entrance of the grace, whereby the Lord shapeth us new again, ye must needs grant that the same proceedeth wholly of God, who loveth us first, when we be yet his enemies, and that we be but only receivers of it. But if ye consider the very instant of the time wherein God worketh in us, ye shall find that the ableness to be willing to receive is given unto us, and also that we be willing to receive both together in oneself at the same moment.

for otherwise the grace were in vain. Therefore as many as impugn this manner of working, as though it were repugnant to the grace of God,

They berate their own unskilfulness many ways, considering that this selfsame together working is the gift of God's grace, and worketh in such wise together with it, as that in order of causes it is indeed the latter, like as it followeth immediately after the cause that worketh the effect, by reason whereof all things are fathered wholly upon the only grace of God, and yet notwithstanding God at once and in one selfsame moment bringeth to pass both

that through grace we may know and through grace we do know indeed that through grace we may will and through grace we do will indeed and finally that through grace we may do and through grace we do indeed for the efficient cause in possibility cannot be called efficient in working until it be performed in very deed

moreover since there is not taken from man neither the ability of understanding nor the ability of willing as i have said afore but only the ability to understand rightly and to will rightly it cannot be denied

but that at leastwise there is in him a natural together-working, because that whereas the first disposing grace is not received but of one that hath understanding and will, and men by nature do generally understand and will, man receiveth the offered grace not as a block, but as one that is endued with understanding and will, and so far forth as he doth but understand and will, he worketh together with God his Maker, at whose hand he hath received those natural powers."

but in respect that he understandeth well and willeth well that must be wholly attributed to the new-come grace whereby it cometh to pass that he prepareth to make himself ready to understand aright to will aright and to do aright when he hath received the grace and also that he understandeth willeth and doth rightly indeed question and what is it to be thought of the effects of the first grace

answer that the first grace is effectual it is to be imputed to god's second grace for we should straightways fall from the first if there followed not another immediately after to make the former effectual and so must ye proceed on still from grace to grace

q but it could hardly be denied but that as soon as we have received the first grace we work together with the rest of the graces following and so consequently that the later graces are bestowed for merit or desert of the former grace a away with the names of desert and merit which fight full but against grace

how much soever the half-pelagian sophisters prate to the contrary he that denieth us to work together with the first grace denieth the efficacy of the first grace and look what i have said of the first grace the same do i say of the graces that ensue

for that the first grace is so effectual as that we use it well we may thank the second grace for it for were not the second grace present yea and both freely given and freely effectual we hold not only not go forward but also go quite back again into a far worse state than we were in before

Then, as for this together working, which, as I have said, proceedeth wholly of the ensuing grace, what hath it in it that may merit or deserve any recompense at all? Nothing at all, for even then, when we after a sort do use it well, which thing also, if the matter be well looked upon, is thought grace, we do rather use it amiss, which thing also, if the matter be well looked upon, is thought grace, we do rather use it amiss.

i confess then that the faithful servants have talents committed unto them but yet again it is of mere grace that the working of those servants is allowed and that they be taken for faithful servants and finally that reward is given unto them which is not due unto them in any other respect than because it was freely promised and is freely performed question but i would fain learn this of you also how this corruption is spread into mankind namely whither it be by nature or by imitation

answer forasmuch as ye be sure enough that it is come in ye should rather have asked how it might be driven out again nevertheless because of many noisome errors i will endeavour to satisfy you in this behalf also i answer therefore that the malady is first spread abroad by nature and afterwards confirmed by imitation

Q. How can you prove that? A. By many texts of Scripture. When he will, especially by Paul's argument grounded upon effects, for even they also do die, which could not imitate Adam, by reason they are not of years of discretion. But death is the reward of sin, ergo all men are in original sin.

what if i should say that the first death which is the separation of the body and the soul and the loosening of the same body again into his first grounds is natural for all compounded things are naturally subject to disillusion answer god himself speaking by moses will disprove you besides this your argument holds not of necessity

for although the thing that is compounded may of its own nature be dissolved yet notwithstanding it is not dissolved in very deed until the cause that compounded it do first cease to maintain it together what absurdity then is there in my speech when i say that man was in such wise created of soul and body

yea and that man's body was in such wise compounded or compacted together with the elements as the creator of them would have maintained them together for ever had not sin stepped in by the way question i grant then that mortal bodies are begotten of mortal bodies but what is that to the corruption of the soul unless thou think that the souls also are conceived over from one into another

Answer, what opinion many of the old writers have had concerning this matter, I pass not, neither will I greatly strive about it. So it be agreed upon that original infection is spread into us by nature. Yet I think that it is not good to dissemble this, that the doctrine of the conveying over of the soul seemeth very awkward to me. For either must the whole soul, or at least some piece of it, be conveyed over.

now if the whole be conveyed then doubtless must the parts of it needs be quite dispatched out of hand but if there be but some piece of it conveyed how can any piece of it be cut away from an essence that is most single question if the soul come not of the corrupt father but of him that is the father and maker of spirits how comes it by that corruption is it by infection of the body that is knit unto it like as an ointment the better it is the sooner it takes the tang of the unclean vessel

Answer, Truly methinks your reason is sufficient to satisfy all modest wits, but howsoever the case standeth, let this suffice, that like as Adam received the image of God for himself and his, so lost he it from him and his, and God, according as he had threatened, forsakes their souls as soon as he hath created them, and shedded them into the body, whereby it comes to pass that all of them are born the children of wrath, namely as heirs of corruption, and of their forefathers' guiltiness."

End of section two.

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Section 3 of A Book of Christian Questions and Answers by Theodore Beezer, translated by Arthur Golding. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain.

Q. Now then, let us return to the only remedy of this mischief, that is to it, to Christ, taken hold upon by faith, which is the gift of God. Therefore I would have you to declare unto me what you mean by taking hold, engreffing, incorporating, and communicating with Christ. A. That they imagine there is any joining or linking together of the substances, after what manner soever they dream it to be, they be utterly deceived, and judge fleshly of spiritual and mystical things.

Again, they that avouch Christ's only operation or efficacy to be the thing whereof we be made partakers, seem not to have weighed sufficiently the expressed texts of the Scripture wherein Christ himself is plainly said to be given unto us, and also his workfulness in us is described. To the intent, therefore, that this communicating may be understood,

we must set down two things whereof the first is this that christ himself is made ours by the benefit of the father so as all believers may say this thing that is to wit christ the son of god manifested in the flesh is mine by the grant and free gift of the father that i might enjoy it

Question. Here I pray you give me leave to say a little by the way. Surely he that so speaketh is owner or master of the thing that was given him. Are we then owners or masters of Christ, and not rather he the owner and master of us? Answer. Seeing that the Father hath given unto us Jesus Christ, and that Christ himself hath redeemed us by giving himself for us, if any man deny Jesus Christ to be the owner and master of us, yea, and that of very good right,

accursed be he therefore when i say he is ours that is to wit which believe

I mean not that there is given unto us any superiority over him, but I say that he is given and born unto us for our sakes. As, for example, a man takes a wife, which must obey him and be serviceable to him, and yet on the other side the wife may say, Like as I am, this man's wife and my father hath given me unto him to have authority over me. So on the other side he is my husband, and hath given himself to me to enjoy him.

verily to the end he may love me and cherish me as his wife which similitude thou knowest well enough that the prophets and the apostles do ordinarily use to betoken this communicating of christ the other point of this communicating is that he is ours in such wise as no conjunction of bodies whether it be natural or artificial may be compared with it

yet notwithstanding it tendeth not to this end that there should be made but one substance of his and ours or but one person of his and ours all which things are most gross forgeries and utterly wide from the kingdom of heaven but it tendeth to this end only that his spiritual workfulness should be the more certain the more near and the more effectual in us

and yet by the way this is certain that he in such wise becometh ours that he becometh one thing with us indeed and the head and members of any body cleave not so fast together by nature as this conjunction of christ's is fast and strait knit unto us insomuch as we be flesh of his flesh and bone of his bones howbeit it is wholly spiritual and mystical question i pray you show me why you call it spiritual

Answer, I call it spiritual not in respect of the thing that is communicated, for it is certain that Christ is communicated unto us not only in spirit, but also in his whole manhood, nor also as though this communication were imaginative and consisted only in thought, without the thing itself to settle upon, nor finally as though he were said to become one thing with Christ, only in respect of consent, after which manner Luke saith that the believers were all of one heart and mind.

but because all this taking hold is done altogether by the mind and by faith and because the holy ghost is the party by whose linking these things are knit together which are so far asunder in respect of distance of place and that in such wise as that in

in this spiritual copulation christ is as the head and the church is as his body drawing spiritual life from him her only head and therefore all the whole real growing together of the very substances into one about the which so many men have strived now long ago with so much ado and by means whereof that monster of transubstantiation and consubstantiation was afterwards brought into the lord's supper

is a gross forgery of man's fondness, by no means agreeing either with the spiritual life or with the veriness of Christ's body or with the proportion of faith. Question. I hear well that Christ himself is received of the faithful by faith. I hear that the church is spiritually coupled to her head by the bond of the Holy Ghost. But yet, perceive I never the more how these things that are so far asunder should be united. Question. I grant so.

for it is not for naught that paul crieth out that it is a great mystery rightly therefore doth one give warning that we should rather labour to feel christ living in us than to be made privy to the reason of this communion as which surmounteth our capacity although we be sure that it is spiritual and that faith is the instrument in doing of it

q what if we should say that christ is communicated unto us only as touching his force and efficacy and that we should refer this place of paul's we be members of his body of his flesh and of his bones unto christ's incarnation a

concerning Christ being one with us, so as we may afterward draw life out of him being united with us, the scripture speaketh more manifestly of it than that it may be applied to his only operation or working in us, inasmuch rather as it is the foundation both of the effectual intercommunicating and of the benefit of imputation, which thing appeareth even by the proportionableness that is between it

and bodily nourishment whereof christ himself is the author for like as if a man will receive the nourishment of bodily food in such wise as may be to the sustenance of his life it behoveth him to have it so far forth his own as he may even eat it

so also to the intent we may suck the juice of the spiritual and endless life out of christ it behoveth us to take hold of him with the mouth of faith and spiritually as it were to digest him into us as for paul's place concerning christ's taking of man's nature unto him it cannot be fitly applied to this matter for according to that all men without exception might say that they be christ's members

which thing the apostle setteth down as peculiar to the church alone and so also doth the resemblance of bodily wedlock import for every man and every woman are not one flesh but each man is one flesh with that woman whose husband he is and each woman is one flesh with that man whose wife she is and therefore this coupling into one flesh is not of nature but of covenant and so also is our conjunction with christ into one spirit

to conclude if the apostle had meant so as you say namely that christ hath knit himself unto us but by his incarnation and that we be joined unto him but by faith he should rather have said that christ is of our flesh and of our bones question on forth i pray you and show me what we receive by being spiritually made one with christ through faith as you have said

Answer, again we enter into a how great gulf, whose wideness, length, and depth, whereas otherwise it surmounteth our capacity, according as the Apostle witnesseth, we know so far forth, as the Holy Ghost, wherewith we be endued, searcheth the depth of God. He that hath not spared his own son, saith the Apostle, but hath given him for us all, how should he not also give us all things with him?

wherefore i answer that all things needful for salvation flow into us out of christ when we take hold of him by faith question but if it may be i would have you show unto me particularly which those things be

answer i answer then that some things are christ's own in such wise as they cleave always to himself alone and become not ours but by imputation of which sort be the things that he hath performed for our sakes namely that by becoming subject to the law he fulfilled all righteousness and suffered the punishments due for our sins

both which things the apostle comprises under the name of obedience. And some things do so rest in Christ, as yet notwithstanding the force and operation of them is spread into us, of which sort is the singular pureness of the manhood in Christ, garnished with all gifts without measure, which pureness not only becometh ours by imputation, but also is the headspring and original of our new birth, and of all the spiritual gifts that accompany the same."

Q. What callest thou imputation? A. That benefit of God the Father whereby he vouchsafeth to account Christ's obedience as ours, in as ample wise as if we ourselves had fulfilled the law and made full satisfaction for our sins. Q. But standeth this with God's nature that he should accept any man as righteous for another man's righteousness?

answer indeed it is another man's righteousness inasmuch as it is without us and resteth in another subject or person that is to it in christ yet is it not in others inasmuch as the same subject that is to it christ is ours yea and also is spiritually become all one thing with us by faith

q nay truly if he be become all one thing with us now it seemeth that whatsoever he hath in him the same is ours in very deed and not only by imputation

answer certain were at once granted that the very substance of christ were become our substance by real copulation and uniting which thing followeth of their opinion that account christ's death and blood to be eaten with the very mouth and so to be conveyed into us then should your saying follow of consequence also

whereby it may be perceived how greatly the doctrine as well of transubstantiation as also of consubstantiation fighteth against the doctrine of righteousness by imputation besides that it also taketh away the variness of christ's flesh

I said afore that Christ and we be verily made one indeed, howbeit that the same is a mere spiritual mystery, the band whereof is the Holy Ghost, and that the mark whereat it aimeth is not the growing together of the substances of the persons into one, for to what purpose were that, but that the spiritual life should by that means flow from Christ the mystical head into his mystical body underneath it. Question, let us return to imputation."

Answer, contented, and I say that like as whatsoever want of righteousness and whatsoever spottiness of sin is in us, the same is without Christ, and yet is imputed to Christ. So, on the other side, I say that Christ's obedience is out of us, as sticking in Christ, the only ground of it, and yet notwithstanding is imputed unto us.

and the foundation of this imputation is that he is one with us and we one with him after spiritual way and manner as i said afore so as he was accounted a sinner not in himself but in us and we be reckoned for righteous not in ourselves but in him

q but it is said that abraham's faith was imputed to him for righteousness and not this obedience of christ's a you know this that the things which go in order one under another are not contraries

faith is said to be accounted unto righteousness because it is the instrument whereby the said obedience whereof the imputation maketh us righteous is taken hold upon after which manner also we be said to be justified by faith namely inasmuch as it taketh hold of christ's obedience by imputation whereof we be made righteous

Q. There is yet one doubt behind how your saying that Christ is taken hold on by faith, agreeth with that which you said afore, when you avouched that all gifts do flow into us from Christ taken hold upon by faith.

for it seemeth to follow either that faith is not of the Father's gift in Christ, or else that this your latter saying is untrue. For needs must faith go before taking hold, if Christ be taken hold on by faith. Answer, the beginning of our salvation cometh of God, who first chose us in Christ, ere we were born, yea, and ere ever the foundation of the world were laid, and also first loveth and knoweth us in the time of our being born.

when as yet we were not given unto Christ, and grafted into him in very deed, but are to be given and grafted. Therefore, if you have an eye to the very instant of the time, we do both believe and also take hold by belief upon Christ offered unto us both at once, for the cause of a thing cannot be working in very deed unless the effect of it come forth together with it. But if you look to the order of causes, I grant that the trainment of faith—

yea of true faith goeth before the taking hold upon christ and so consequently is given not to them that are already grafted but to them that are at the point to be grafted into him

yet followeth it not thereupon that faith is not given unto us in christ considering that the heavenly father setting his determination in his only son doth not then first behold us in christ when we be given unto him but hath chosen us known us and loved us in him yea even before the foundations of the world were laid and much rather when as yet we hated him

like as Christ himself also took hold of us first, to the end that we might take hold of him afterward. Again, look what is begun in us by grace, that we might thereby be grafted into Christ, and therefore, as in respect of the order of causes, is done before our taking hold upon Christ. The same is increased and strengthened in us afterward by the same grace in Christ whom we have now taken hold of by faith. Question, what then are the things that we attain in Christ?

Answer, Paul concludeth this whole matter most plainly and also most briefly, when he saith that God the Father hath made Christ our wisdom, justification, sanctification, and redemption. Question, what mean you by being made our wisdom? Answer, the selfsame thing that Zechariah meaneth when he saith that his own son John Baptist is sent to show the knowledge of salvation, that is to say, to show Christ himself.

for the only true wisdom is this which christ teacheth unto men namely when he disclosed himself unto them which thing the father also hath testified with loud voice from heaven saying hear ye him question reckon you this among the gifts that we receive by christ

my meaning is that christ himself is so given unto us as to be the only teacher of that true and native wisdom as that he teacheth himself unto us for he is both the teacher and the thing that is taught and therefore among christ's gifts the very foremost and chiefest is that he giveth himself unto us when he furnisheth us with the knowledge of himself

q what doth paul call justification in this place a that whereby we be made righteous that is to say so far forth perfect sound faultless and unblameable as not only there is quite wiped out of us whatsoever uncleanness is in us from top to toe

whereby god who is singularly pure may by any means be offended but also there is most plenteously found in us whatsoever may so much delight him in this human nature as he of his good will may vouchsafe to crown with everlasting life

and of that righteousness whereby a man is accounted righteous before God. The certain square and invariable rule is God's own law, and the law not only forbideth the things that are not to be done, threatening everlasting death for a penalty, but also enjoineth the perfect loving of God and our neighbour. Therefore, that a man may be accounted righteous before God, there be two things required of necessity, that is to say, the utter absence of all sin and the fulfilling of all right according to the law.

Q. But this was never found in any mortal white. A. Saving Christ, who not only never sinned, but also performed the whole law to the full. Q. Tell me, I pray you, was not Christ perfectly righteous even from the very moment of his conception? A. In respect of his Godhead, he not only was righteous from everlasting, but also the very righteousness itself, that is to say, the sovereign and most perfect pureness. Q.

and in respect to his manhood he was endued with singular holiness yea even far above the angels even from the very instant of the conception of his flesh but now by the name of righteousness we mean that which followeth upon the perfect performing of god's law which righteousness christ had not in effect until he had finished the whole work that was enjoined him for this is the righteousness by the imputation whereof we be justified

or made righteous and not the foresaid essential righteousness which is proper to the godhead nor yet the other natural pureness of christ's flesh whereof we will entreat severally by itself for want of which distinction osiander hath overshot himself to folly question but i see not yet how this righteousness may suffice for inasmuch as we not only perform not the law but also are overcome with innumerable sins

how shall we be accounted as though we had never sinned that is to say to be undefiled of our sins if the spots of our sins be not first washed out and that cannot be done without suffering of the punishments due to them answer thou sayest right therefore whereas i said that christ not only brake not the law but also did most fully and perfectly perform the law

thou must take his so doing to comprehend in especially a satisfaction for all the sins of them that believe for every man is bound by the law to love god and his neighbour perfectly not indefinitely but definitely that is to say as having regard of his own peculiar calling as for example's sake if a magistrate love god but as some other private person doth he cannot be said to have done his duty because he is bound to love god as a magistrate

which manner of dealing is to be understood of all other kind of callings and christ was sent to suffer for us the punishments due for our sins which thing he performed all his life long but specially in that sacrifice of his wherein he became obedient to his father unto death even the death of the cross therefore by working in suffering and by offering himself for us he both fulfilled the law for us and also made satisfaction for our sins

Question, but in respect that Christ is become man, it seemeth he was bound by nature to perform the righteousness of the law, that is to say, to love God and his neighbour perfectly, because the said law is laid upon the very nature of mankind. And therefore it seemeth that his fulfilling of the law was not for us, but for himself, that he might purchase himself life, which thing cannot be said of the punishments that were to be endured by him for our sins. Answer,

"'although we should say that Christ, as touching his flesh, "'purchased himself eternal life by fulfilling the law, "'whereunto he was bound.'

yet were it no absurdity to say also that the force of this desert is so great that it flowereth also even unto the believers but the former part cannot well be justified for seeing that this manhood of his was joined to the word by personal union yea and so joined as it was most wholly in itself who can think if the said human nature be considered without the charge of mediatorship which is not of itself coincident to the manhood

but enjoined to the son by the father of his own good-will, and willingly undertaken by the son, I say, who can think that there was any default in his manhood which he had taken unto him, so as it should not forthwith have been most worthy of the everlasting life, even from the very first moment of the said union? Therefore this, his being bound to the performance of the law, is not properly by nature but of good-will."

nor simply for that Christ is a man, but because he became man for our sakes, which condition he undertook of his own accord, and performed it not in his own behalf, for by good right he was most blessed already, but in our behalf, for whom it was his will to become subject to the law, to the intent to redeem them that were under the law. Furthermore, see how uncertain a saying that is, which thou spakest last of all concerning thee satisfying for our sins,

for that is even the chiefest part of his obedience or fulfilling of the law as we have proved a little afore so then if he fulfilled the law in his own behalf he must needs confess that he died for his own sake also

Q. You say, then, that we be justified before God, that is to say, that we be counted and denounced righteous, because Christ's obedience is imputed unto us, which consisteth chiefly of two parts, namely of satisfaction for our sins, and of full performance of all righteousness of the law? A. I say so. Q. To what purpose, then, is Christ furthermore made our sanctification? For doubtless he that is accepted for righteous is also accounted for holy.

Answer, whosoever is righteous must also of necessity be holy, but not contrarywise, except there come new grace to the former graces, after the manner that we have avouched the term righteous to be taken in this present matter, that is to wit, for such a one as not only is not held for a transgressor of the law, because his sins be cleansed away in Christ, but also hath fulfilled the righteousness of the law in him.

To be short, I say that this holiness is the goodness and uncorruptness of his person, and that this righteousness whereof we entreat now, and whereof the believers are termed righteous in themselves, is not the righteousness that cometh by imputation, but the imp of that holiness, so as the former is as the tree, and this other is as the fruit of it.

after this sort was adam created holy that is to say good and faultless and he had also become righteous if he had kept the law which his creator had appointed him question but all men are corrupt by nature

answer again except christ the second adam who was conceived by the holy ghost to the end that the nature of man might in him not only recover the cleanness which it had lost but also be advanced to a degree of goodness far higher without measure for the first adam was but created after the image of god but the latter adam is also god because he is upheld by the everlasting son of god who hath by unutterable means sanctified the nature that he hath taken unto him

and that is done to the intent the same should also make us holy question and wherefore do you call christ the second adam answer because that like as adam was created to the end that all men should be born of him by natural generation so christ hath taken man's nature upon him to the end that all such as believe in him should be spiritually born anew in him by grace

Q. Was it not enough for us to be born once by natural means? A. Yes, as overtaining to this life, in respect to which it were a folly to think we be born any oftener. But, forasmuch as Adam hath put himself in danger of double death, both for himself and for his offspring, it behoved us either to perish or to be born again into everlasting life after a far other sort.

and therefore this other adam is given us that both holiness and everlasting life might flow spiritually out of him into us by grace like as sin and death were spread into us from the first adam bodily and by nature question lay forth yet more plainly this sanctification of ours in christ

a that thing is said to be sanctified or made holy which is sorted out from the common uncleanness that it may be most pure and wholly consecrated unto god the utter enemy of all uncleanness

after this sort is our nature sanctified or hallowed in christ even from the very instant of his conception and that to the intent to sanctify us which thing is done two ways for first like as i said that we be accounted thoroughly righteous afore god by imputation of christ's righteousness not in ourselves but in him to whom we be united by faith

even so also i say that by the imputation of his perfect holiness and soundness our persons are accounted thoroughly holy and sound and so consequently are acceptable to the father not in ourselves but in christ

further i say that the force and efficacy of this most pure holiness which is in the flesh of christ floweth even into us by the working of the holy ghost in us so as we be hallowed in ourselves that is to say we be segregated from the defilings of this world and serve god both in spirit and body

which benefit is everywhere in the scriptures called sanctification, or holiness, regeneration, or new birth, illumination, or enlightening, the new man, the new creature, and the spirit, or spiritualness. Question, you say then, that this latter sanctification is not a thing without us, nor ours by imputation only, but a new endowment, perfectly grafted and sticking in us, bestowed upon us in Christ by the mere grace of the heavenly Father, and wrought in us by the virtue of the Holy Ghost."

a so say i question what need then have we of the other sanctification of our nature which is imputed to us a forasmuch as this holiness that sticketh in us is but only begun in us according as it appeareth by the continual debate between the flesh and the spirit even in the best sort of men

therefore to the intent our persons may be acceptable unto god and so consequently the thing that proceedeth from us may please him for the life of holy men is as it were a continual offering up of themselves whereunto the apostle exhorteth us

there had need to step in a far other holiness, namely the same which is most full and perfect in Christ, at the sight of whom our most gracious Father, who notwithstanding is a continual enemy to all uncleanness and filthiness, may hold himself appeased, as he that is both singularly just and singularly merciful, question, but why doth he not sanctify us fully out of hand?'

Answer, nay, rather you must marvel at his goodness, in that he drippeth any little drop of regenerating grace into any man, and yet why he should delay the full sanctifying of us unto another world. There be many causes, whereof the chief are two, the one is, for that we be but of a weak faith, and therefore, as much as in us lieth, we hinder the effectualness of the Holy Ghost.

The other is, that inasmuch as we be saved by mere grace and not by works, he that glorieth should glory only in the Lord.

for if this holiness were perfect in us then should our righteousness also be perfect or cleaving in us and so consequently christ should not substantially and properly be our saviour but only an instrument to dispose us after such manner as we might afterwards justify ourselves by our own righteousness which is flatly the foul and detestable error of the half-pelagian sophisters

Q. You say, then, that between our sanctification and our righteousness there is such a proportionable resemblance, that look how great the one is, so great also is the other. A. Yea, indeed, for true sanctification cannot be idle, and such as a fruitful tree is, such also is the very fruit of it.

wherefore inasmuch as our understanding is partly enlightened with the promise of the true god we do also partly know him forasmuch also as we partly assent to god's promise and apply the same to ourselves therefore we do partly believe and because our will is partly changed therefore we partly will well and work well question what mean you by this partly

a that is to say not perfectly but only so far forth as we be born anew so as in one selfsame ground howbeit in diverse respects there is cleanness and uncleanness light and darkness belief and unbelief good will and will declining from good and spirit and flesh q what mean you by spirit a all the powers in man as well superior as inferior so far forth as they be sanctified or regenerated q and what call you flesh

answer in a man that is not regenerated i mean thereby the whole man even as much as is of him within and without from top to toe and in a man that is regenerated i mean again all his powers so far forth as they be not sanctified or regenerated

Question, But John saith that the children of God sin not. Answer, The same saith also that they are liars which say they have no sin. Therefore they be said not to sin, because that although sin dwell in them, yet it reigneth not in them. For the Spirit fighteth in them against the flesh, and at length shall get the upper hand.

and in consideration hereof the regenerated only may rightly say the evil that i would not do that i do and the good that i would do that i do not question even the natural reason that is in any man unregenerated doth oftentimes strive against his lusts and thou knowest that virtue consisteth in subduing the unreasonable part of the mind unto reason

answer what is to be thought of the philosophical virtues i have answered afore i grant there is a certain wariness and a certain conscionableness left in man to reprove and after a sort also to restrain the headiness of the affections to the intent that every man may be unexcusable and therefore as for the philosophical distribution

as it were of the parts of the soul and the things that the peripatetics write concerning meanness i not only reprove them not of any untruth but also praise and commend them as remnants of the image of god nevertheless i say that the distribution of man's parts which the holy ghost teacheth us is far after another sort matching the natural man and the spiritual man the inner man and the outer man the new man and the old man and the flesh and the spirit one against another

and in those names by which vice is noted he betokeneth also even the sovereign and overruling part of the mind which the philosophers make so great account of and finally whatsoever man hath of nature without the grace of regeneration question is not reason reason then answer yes undoubtedly and it always becometh better cited by searching but yet it is always faulty till it be regenerated

for first and foremost even when it understandeth and discerneth the good it understandeth it not nor discerneth it not as it ought and should do by reason of the original corruption which the philosophers could not so much as once mistrust moreover in many even of the weightiest matters it not only seeth not the truth but also utterly and of set purpose fighteth against the truth q i beseech you confirm these things with examples

answer i will although the philosophers write many things notably and very excellently concerning god the sovereign good yet notwithstanding which of them all hath by his natural insight perceived the one substance of the godhead in the three persons and yet there is none other knowing of the sovereign good that is either true or that worketh salvation

but yet it is said that Trismegistus, and especially the disciples of Plato, taught some such like thing.

Answer, it may be that some men have come to some dark knowledge of this mystery delivered over by the patriarchs and written in holy writings, but always with the toys of those men that seeketh for the truth of these things in the writings of the philosophers. For when they come to the point to lay forth the nature of God, after they have said many things according to truth, suddenly do the cunningest of them slide away to fondness, as the apostle rightly saith.

for from whence cometh their multitude of gods from whence cometh their dividing of the godhead into great gods and lesser gods from whence comes the franticness of the epicures from whence comes the stoical necessity to bind even the godhead itself from whence hath aristotle his dotages dreaming that the world is without beginning and without ending and taking away all particular providence

and yet i will overslip other toys innumerable confuted in so many places by aristotle himself to whom i pray you may we wit the coming in of all superstitions but to this nobler over-ruler furthermore if we come down unto man which of the philosophers could know himself seeing he knew not the original of the first man and his fall

yea truly what can be imagined more awk more brain-sick or more monstrous than the saying which many men cease not to father upon aristotle the wittiest of all philosophers namely that in all mankind there is but only one soul besides this these wise men are not even yet agreed upon the immortality of the soul and what quarrelling is there among them about the affections

and if we come down to the mutual duties between man and man how many things not only fondly but also wickedly and shamefully have the best commended law-makers of all nations ordained which of them did even bethink him of the true remedy against the headiness of affections and no marvel seeing they knew neither the causes nor the effects of that deadly disease you see therefore that even very reason itself so long as it continueth but natural is stark blind in the matters of greatest weight

and how many things be there wherein it not only is blind but also stark mad for besides that each of them defended those few errors which i have reckoned out of a great sword more so wilfully as they cannot abide to be taught righter things that the world should be created of nothing that the world should become flesh that any man should be born of a virgin that we should be counted righteous for another man's righteousness

that the dead bodies should rise again and many other things reason not only admitteth them not but also loatheth and scorneth them yea and if ye press over far upon her at length like a bedlam she trampleth all the whole heavenly wisdom under her feet except she be made spiritual by the grace of god

yea and even then also she ceaseth not to wrestle against the known wisdom so far forth as she is not changed and therefore i true you see the things to be true which i spake

but you divines also be ye never so spiritual agree not thoroughly amongst yourselves in all things answer that cometh not to pass through the fault of the scriptures wherein the points of true religion are set forth plainly and manifestly enough but we may blame the selfsame reason for it which is both blind and also stubborn

neither said i that we be regenerated thoroughly but only in part for were we regenerated thoroughly we should all of us agree fully to the truth in all points and therefore i deny not but there remain the remnants of that ignorant and stubborn nature but they shall be done away by little and little

Q. Well then, let us grant that whatsoever pure knowledge, or right judgment, or just desire there is in us, the same proceedeth of the mere grace of the heavenly Father in his Son. But wilt thou not grant that this righteousness which sticketh in us is righteousness, and therefore also acceptable to God? A. I grant it is righteousness, for a good tree bringeth forth good fruit, albeit but by way of comparison, that is to wit, if it be compared with such fruits as are rotten indeed. Q.

but if the very best works even of the holiest men should be tried by the rule of god's will that is to say by the law i say they be sins and albeit they be not such as fight full but against the law such as adultery stealing lying and such like be yet are they sins because they shrink from that degree of goodness which the law doth justly exact at man's hand

and therefore as i have said afore we must rest ourselves upon the only obedience of christ imputed to us by faith as the only righteousness that is absolutely perfect and full in all points question nay rather by what right should god exact anything at men's hands whom he knoweth to be unable to make payment even by nature whereof he himself is the author

Answer. That we be not able to make payment is not of nature, which both would and could yield unto her Creator, after whose image she was made, the thing that both he required and she owed, inasmuch as she was created to the same purpose. But it sprang of the willing corruption of the same nature, which bringeth to pass that no man either will or can acknowledge that debt, and much less pay it. Nay, rather, all of us do nothing else but increase that debt.

but to speak even after the manner of men doth any man cease to be a debtor which through his own fault is not able to pay furthermore where the creator may of very good right and duty require at our hands that which he doth yea and peradventure somewhat more too if he take the same in so good worth at our hands that believe in his son christ whom he hath given unto us most liberally and freely

that of his like liberality he gives us faith also whereby to take the gifts that he offereth us who would not rather honour the father's so infinite goodness than stand in contention with him question to god therefore the sovereign good be glory and praise everlasting nevertheless give me leave to ask you thus much at least wise this righteousness that cleaveth unto us so far forth as it hath regard of righteousness must needs please god who delighteth in righteousness

I perceive the wiliness not of you as I think but of Satan, for inasmuch as he cannot bereave Christ quite and clean of the glory of our salvation, therefore he goeth about at leastwise to nip off some pieces of it, which thing would surely come to pass if he could make men believe that thing which the filthy sophisters bear folk in hand, namely that Christ's righteousness doth but simply that which is wanting in our righteousness,

thus therefore standeth the case god beareth such a love towards righteousness that whatsoever hath any spark of righteousness and cleanness at all he alloweth it after a sort but that is of his own infinite goodness and not for any desert of such manner of righteousness which is but shadowish so allowed he the repentance of the ninevites and of ahab although it were no true repentance but a certain shrinking of themselves under the mighty hand of god

for he is so exceeding good that he doth good even to them that be most unworthy and much more to such as be by any means touched with the feeling of his majesty then delighteth he much more in the works of them that be regenerated although they be unperfect but first i say that these works of the regenerated do please him not for any worthiness of them but of the mere grace of the father who pardoneth that which is missing of righteousness and accepteth that which proceedeth of his own spirit

again i deny that our justification and so consequently that life everlasting shall be given to these works after one manner that is to wit as the cause of them please their god never so much through his mere grace for this is a sure ground that the righteous shall live by faith and everlasting life is the gift of god question but if they please they seem worthy to please at leastwise in some behalf

Most false is this conclusion, for God cannot, no, not even of covenant, allow any other righteousness as worthy of that name, than such as fully answerable to the law in all points, except he will be repugnant to himself, which thing were a sin to say. Thus, therefore, oughtest thou to have gathered. The works of the regenerated do please God, though they be imperfect. Ergo, God is exceeding merciful."

question besides this there is mention made everywhere of hire wages reward requiting and recompense answer the name of wages hath a larger scope than the name of everlasting life and it is certain that god of his passing liberality rendereth temporal blessings even to the ungodly be they never so unworthy

Again, whither you refer the name of wages to everlasting life or to other benefits, yet doth it not follow that the same is paid as due debt, but rather this doth most of all commend God's mercy, that he vouchsaveth to give the name of wages, or higher, to the undue reward which he bestoweth upon us of his own mere grace in Christ, to the end that we, although we be but unprofitable servants, for who is able to bestow anything upon God, might notwithstanding perceive that

that we have not lost our labour finally although this wages be promised freely and given freely yet is it given to him that worketh and therefore is called a wages or hire

End of section three. Stop by Sherwin-Williams and get 30% off select paints and stains May 2nd through the 12th. It's the perfect time to transform your space with color. Refresh your home inside and out with colors that make every space feel brand new. From cozy interiors to stunning exteriors, we've got the perfect

perfect shade for your next project. Shop the sale online or visit your neighborhood Sherwin-Williams store. Click the banner to learn more. Retail sales only. Some exclusions apply. See store for details.

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section four of a book of christian questions and answers by theodore beza translated by arthur golding this librivanque's recording is in the public domain question if it be given to him that worketh ergo it is given him for his works

answer nay rather if it be given we be sure it is not paid as a duty again there is a far difference between giving to a worker and giving for works i may well say therefore that eternal life is given to them work because faith shall be esteemed by the fruits of it and righteousness by faith but not paid them for their work's sake and after this manner must that text be expounded where it is said every man shall be judged according to the things that he hath done in his body and such other like sentences

Q. Why so? A. Because good works make not men righteous, but follow him that believeth, and that is already become righteous in Christ. Like as good fruits make not a tree to be good, but a tree is known to be good by the good fruits of it. Q. But a little afore you fetched good works not out of justification, but out of sanctification. A. I grant it, for there is no man justified by imputation of Christ's righteousness, but he is also sanctified by his Spirit.

Question, say you then that good works be needful to salvation? Answer, if faith be needful to salvation, and works do of necessity accompany true faith, as which cannot be idle, surely the other followeth also that good works be needful to salvation, albeit not as a cause of salvation, for we be justified, and therefore also do live by faith only in Christ, but as a thing that of necessity cleaveth unto true faith.

so saith paul that those be god's children which are led by god's spirit and john saith that those be righteous which work righteousness and james also declaring not by what means we be justified but whereby true faith and instigation are discerned proveth by abraham's example that those are not justified which utter no works of faith

for in such wise must james be made to agree with paul to the end it may plainly appear how they be but babblers which condemn the necessity of good works for false doctrine question what if a man should never be endued with faith till the last instant of his death for so it seemeth to have happened to the thief that hung by christ what manner of good works shall such a one be able to bring forth

Answer, verily the faith of that thief was unspeakably workful in that short time, for he rebuked the blasphemies and wicked doings of the other thief. He detested his own crimes with an assured and passing wonderful faith. He acknowledged Christ for the everlasting King, even in the reproachfulness of his cross, when all his disciples held their peace. He called upon him as his Saviour, and finally he openly reproved the merciless cruelty and wicked speeches of the Jews."

but the acknowledging of sin the calling upon god the father in christ and thanksgiving are the excellentest works of the first table which cannot be utterly separated from faith in no man and admit that some man being prevented with death is able to show no works of the second table yet is not the faith in him therefore to be counted idle because that although it have not charity in actual deed yet is it accompanied with it in possibility

I have yet one more doubt behind. Why any man should be damned for evil works, if no man be justified for good works? The reason is manifest.

namely because that even the lightest sin that is deserveth although not the extremest pains in everlasting death yet everlasting death itself which generally is the higher of sin but no righteousness can worthily deserve eternal life except it be such a righteousness as the law requireth that is to wit a perfect and sound state therefore shew me one that fulfileth the law as there is none found which is not a breaker of the law and i will grant the foresaid argument

Say you then, that there shall be odds in the punishments of the damned sort?

Answer, although this matter be to be inquired of very soberly, yet have I not spoken it unadvisedly, for besides that the order of justice requireth, that he which hath sinned more grievously should be more grievously punished, considering that all sins are not alike heinous, saving so far forth as they match in generality, for it is a paradox of the Stoics and not of Christians to avouch that all sins be equal.

Christ himself witnesseth the same thing expressly, saying that the case of the Sodomites shall be more tolerable in the day of judgment than the case of them that had rejected him. Question, then shall there be odds in the glory of those that shall be saved? Answer, verily, so doth the reason of contraries require, and whereas the apostle saith that such as have sown sparily shall reap sparily, it seemeth not that the same should be restrained to temporal blessings only.

question but of sowing cometh reaping ergo righteousness and life proceed of good works answer truly similitudes must never be racked further than the nature of the things that are treated of and the purpose of him that useth the similitudes will bear for else there will ensue most fond and false things out of number which thing when unskilful interpreters mark not they must needs set forth many foolish and false things

but in the foresaid place the apostle setteth forth the proportionable resemblance of works and glory and not the cause of glory for in all places he steadfastly defendeth that righteousness is the mere gift of god without the works of the law and is not paid as a due debt but bestowed upon the believers as a grace

Question, he meaneth but the works of the ceremonial law. Answer, a fond answer, for his matching of duty and grace one against another cannot stand unless all the works of the law be excluded without exception, and yet I will overpass other arguments of Paul's, which are bent directly against the very law of the ten hests, bent, I say, not to deface the law, which is the madness of the manichees, but to take away from it the power of justifying.

again i beseech you if works may be thanked for any manner of righteousness why should ye exclude the ceremonies that be rightly used for truly they be comprehended in the seventh commandment of the ten hests and as long as they were rightly used they were most excellent works

Question, but ceremonies be abolished by the coming of Christ? Answer, I confess they be abolished because they be fulfilled in Christ. But the matter itself declareth, that where Paul disputeth in the causes of justification, his reasons tend not to prove that these ceremonies be abolished, but to show that salvation rested always in the only righteousness of Christ, imputed to them that believe, and for confirmation thereof, among other things, he alledgeth the examples of Abraham and David.

Q. Then may we say that Paul excludeth but only the good works that go before the grace of justification? A. No less fond is this answer also. For besides that the apostle allegeth manifestly the examples and testimonies of them that were justified, namely of Abraham and David, to the intent I may yet pass his other reason grounded upon the very nature of the law.

What a madness were it to busy a man's self about the excluding of those things which are not at all! For why, to deem that they which are not justified can do any good works? It is no less folly than if a man should say that a tree can bring forth good fruit, before it be good itself. Question, but although the hire of eternal life be not due for the worthiness of the very works, yet it is due at least wise by covenant. Answer, what covenant mean you, I beseech you?

Question the covenant of the law, which is, Do this, and thou shalt live, and if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Answer, How this covenant is to be understood, is to be seen by the threatening which is set against the promise, and that is this by the witness of the apostle, Cursed is every one that abideth not in all the things that are written in the book of the law, that he may keep them.

but the law requireth perfect love and no man but only christ hath ever performed the law to the full therefore life is due to none by the covenant but only unto christ as for us we have it given us by mere grace from out of him who also is himself given unto us by mere grace

question wherefore call you them good works then if they deserve not eternal life answer surely the latin divines yea even the ancient sort of them have improperly used the word merit or deserve instead of obtain and the word desert or deserting or merit for a good work which thing ye shall never find in the holy scriptures

now although the works of the regenerate are not so good as they should deserve eternal life yet are they good so far forth as they proceed from the good spirit of god and from a heart that is cleansed by faith and again they be good because that by them the lord is glorified our neighbour helped we ourselves also reap this excellent fruit of them that they be witnesses unto us of our faith and consequently of our election

Question, let thus far then suffice concerning both parts of sanctification. Now remaineth that which the apostle saith also, namely that Christ is become our redemption.

Answer, by the word redemption the apostle meaneth in that place, not the very act of redeeming, but the effect of it, that is to say the end, whereunto the said justification and sanctification lead us, the which is this, that being redeemed from sin and death by Christ, we should also be made partakers of eternal life in him, whose pledge and earnest penny we have even in this life, that is to wit, the Holy Ghost, by whom we be sealed up.

q but david groundeth this redemption and blessing in the release of sins why then add you also the imputation of the sanctification that sticketh in christ and his fulfilling of the law

answer what if i should encounter thee with these texts blessed are the clean in heart blessed are the blameless in the way and such other like wouldst thou gather hereupon that the release of sins is excluded i think not so now and then sanctification is meant by the term justification because these two go never asunder

and why may i not make answer thus also that sometimes there is mention made but only of the releasing of sins not to the end to exclude all other pates that make men blest but by cause the rest are covertly comprehended under it and if thou wilt urge me yet further i may also fitly answer that all the other are meant by the releasing of sins for who can deny but that even original sin hath need of cleansing ergo it is comprehended in the releasing of sins

also who can say that he only is to be taken for an offender that doth some thing which he is forbidden and not he also which performeth not that which is enjoined him not to have fulfilled the law is also sin which also hath need to be released now remain the sins that is to say the deeds that are done against the law whereof there is no question but they have need to be satisfied for

all these are released by christ's satisfaction which is imputed to us all now let us come to the name of release that man is properly said to release a debt which freely yea and utterly dischargeth his debtor so as he reserveth no action to himself against it

now then we be all of us the children of wrath not only because we be corrupted or because we fulfil not the law or because we do the things that are forbidden us but also because we ought to appear pure before god such as he made us and not only not to be transgressors of the law but also to be performers of the law therefore to the end that we who else must perish may have full and perfect release of all sins this aforesaid release must of necessity match with the other release whereof we spake afore

which taketh away but the one part of our sins and we have found both these releases in christ whom we have taken hold on by faith who not only hath suffered for all those sins of ours but also hath fully sanctified our nature in himself for us and fulfilled all righteousness therein for us so as we not only be set free by him from death but also obtain the reward of everlasting life in him

Question, you conclude then that all things necessary for our salvation are found in Christ alone, to whom we cleave by faith, so as there is no damnation for them that be grafted in Christ? Answer, I conclude so indeed, yea, and also that the same is the only knowledge of salvation. Question, you say also that this faith is the gift of God bestowed upon us by his own mere grace, and therefore that the first entrance of it is of God and not of ourselves? Answer, I say so.

Question, then, I pray, let us search to whom it is given, for the thing itself witnesseth that it is not given unto all men, inasmuch as the believers have always been so few. Answer, yet doth it not follow, but that it is offered unto all men, and therefore it seemeth that we should first seek whether it be offered to all or no, which demand will lead us to the very head-springs that is to wit to providence and predestination.

Question, be it so, and therefore I pray you show me what you call providence.

Answer, I mean by it not only that unspeakable power whereby it cometh to pass, that God hath foreseen all things from everlasting, and most wisely provided for all things beforehand, but also that eternal decree or ordinance of the most wise and righteous God, whereby everything that hath been hath been, and everything that is is, and everything that shall be shall be, according as it is like to him to appoint from everlasting.

Question, say you then that this providence is the bringer to pass and the disposer of all things? Answer, it is so, and that in such wise as it deserveth some excellent name than to be called a cause, for this is it that ordereth all causes and ruleth even the particularest fallings out of them, so as they may be guided to their appointed ends.

Q. But there be some angels evil, and men are evil by nature, and whatsoever proceedeth from either of these, except it be from men that be regenerated, must needs be evil, as the thing that proceedeth from an evil beginning. But God cannot be the author of evil things. Ugo, he is not the author of all things, considering that so many evil things are to be exempted.

answer as well each one of the angels for there can no offspring be granted in a spiritual nature as also the first persons of mankind that is to wit adam and eve were created good and therefore none of them both are to be displaced out of god's ordinance

question admit it be so as touching that original and first state of theirs but seeing they be now corrupted and full of lewdness how can ye bring them within the compass of that eternal ordinance of god which is so workful but you must wrap god up in their naughtiness

Answer, do you suppose it could stand with equity even by the judgment of themselves, be they devils, or be they the wickedest sort of men, that they should therefore be exempted from subjection to their Maker, because they have been stubborn against him? And yet must this needs follow upon your saying? But thus standeth the case. I pray you, did you never behold a clock wherein a certain wheel greater than the rest turneth to the right hand, and

and carrieth all the rest about with him some to the right hand and other some to the left hand with a mere contrary motion one to another question yes and truly i have wondered oftentimes that man's cunning should be able to represent to mine eyes the thing that man's mind is scarce able to attain unto the compass of the skies answer assure thyself that the same is a true image of the divine providence so thou except this thing whereunto nothing can be found fully like

no, not even in the compass of the skies, and much less in those hand-wrought instruments, because nothing is equal, no, nor, to speak properly, like unto the highest, namely that God Almighty, whom I now compare to the greatest wheel, which is the mover of all the rest, is in such wise in the world, as that he is no part of the world, and yet hath given self-moving to each of the wheels that move themselves, and that in such wise, as

as he himself is by no means moved, and yet moveth all things according to his eternal providence.

and this mystery of God's providence was represented to us by God's appointment in the vision of Ezekiel, wherein we have this to mark further, that those fourfold images were over-covered with wings, and the wheels folded one within another, and that God was placed highest above all things, lest we might surmise the mover himself to be moved together with the causes, or lest we might over-curiously imagine ourselves able to perceive the reason of those several movings.

This foundation being laid, I answer three things. The first is that the instruments which have life, and are endued with reason, of which sought be angels and men, are so stirred by God their Maker, as that they also stir themselves by an inward self-moving of their own, and therefore that in the bringing to pass of one action there meet two causes, that is to wit God, who is dissevered from the instrument, and yet giveth the instrument beginning to move itself, and the very instrument moving itself."

another is that these instruments are so moved by god as that he himself stirreth always well but the instruments if they be evil go a contrary motion that is to say always amiss but if they be good so as the first author who moveth always well and the instrument which moveth it do agree then followeth a good and commendable work the third is that god so moveth the evil instruments for it is they only whom we have now in question

they on the other side are so moved by themselves that by reason of the double moving beginning there is also a double work which seemeth notwithstanding to be but all one and the same is good in respect of the good beginning and evil in respect of the evil beginning

q i would have these things enlightened with some examples a i will so and that with assured and evident examples but first i will put to this distinction that god the notable workmaster using the evil instruments will whatsoever they be

doth either match the one against another or benefit the good by the service of them and whither of these two things soever he doth no man that is in his right wits will deny but it is good namely either to punish the bad or to benefit the good now let us allege examples

that joseph came by god's providence into egypt and was advanced there unto great pre-eminence and that he might be the preserver of the church both he himself saith it and the matter itself declares it and what instruments did the lord use to the compassing of the matter even satan who stood his brethren against their most innocent brother the very wicked intent of the same brethren the covetousness of the merchantmen and the lust of a most mischievous woman

all these sinned most grievously inasmuch as they were the beginners of their own doings but god using well those most ungracious instruments which thought upon no such things defended his servants from the famine settled them in a fruitful soil nurtured his faithful servant joseph and finally advanced him to the highest degree of honour

is it not a most rightful work of god's justice that naughty persons should fordo themselves so punished he the midianites using thereunto the spirit of discord in the ungracious wilfulness of the murderers themselves so as they made assault one upon another doubtless with a wicked mind but yet by the rightful justice of god

it was good that david should be chastised even after his sin was acknowledged and forgiven it was good also that ahitophel's treachery and absalom's traitorous mind should be discovered and sorely punished to the performance of these matters the lord useth the outrage of satan ahitophel's own false-heartedness and absalom's own traitorous ambition horrible lechery and unnaturalness by which evil instruments the lord executed many things exceeding well

for he showed how much he misliketh whoredom and craftiness he chastised david fatherly he punished ahitophel by his own hands and finally he made absalom cast away himself

the scripture beareth witness that our being tried and consequently our chastisement is of the good will of our heavenly father that thereby he may be glorified and his power made perfect in our weakness and except we be of that mind what comfort is there for the godly in so great miseries for in the trial of job after this manner there is used the spitefulness of satan and the covetousness and excessive cruelties of the robbers

satan therefore did sin in heaping so many miseries upon the servant of god and the robbers did wickedly in stealing away another man's goods but the lord did exceeding well in trying his servant and in showing that all satan's attempts against the church are in vain

Finally, you will not deny but that the excellentest of all God's works was the redemption of mankind. For the Father delivered his own Son for our sins, by his foredetermined purpose, and by the foreappointment of his eternal ordinance, according as Peter and the church of Jerusalem say, and the Father is he that hath not spared his own Son for our sakes, and what manner of instruments hath he put to the performing of so great a matter, surely the worst that could be.

for no good man could have found in his heart to pursue a guiltless person, and much less to betray him, condemn him, and crucify him,

"'Namely, even the malice of Satan, who was entered into the heart of Judas, "'the cursed covetousness and treason of Judas himself, "'the most desperate envy and unrecoverable malice of the Jews, "'and finally Pilate's niceness and untoward dealing. "'So is there none of these which sinned not most heinously, "'and all of them were paid afterwards with most sore punishment at God's hand for the same. "'And yet, in the meanwhile, by this selfsame work, he saved us from sin and death.'

q but hereby there seemeth not any other thing to be gathered than that the purposes of evil persons are turned by god to a contrary end a yes hereby also it is concluded that god moveth even the evil well and effectually to bring his own work to pass by them

but you must bear in mind that which i have said namely that god doth in such wise move evil persons well to bring his own good work about not as a hammer or a hatchet in a workman's hand which are tools that can do nothing at all of themselves but in such wise as the evil persons do also move themselves ill to will amiss and to do amiss because that they themselves are the working cause of their own evil doings

now also this must be added that god truly worketh in the good and by the good and that he works by the evil and not in the evil question what difference is there in these little words

Answer, Undoubtedly great, for God useth both the one and the other as instruments, as oft as he listeth, and therefore he is rightly said to work his work as well by the one as by the other. But God worketh in those only whom he breatheth upon with his Holy Spirit, and whom he ruleth with his Holy Spirit, either strengthening them in goodness, namely the angels and the men that be regenerated, or else in doing them with new goodness, as when he sanctifieth his servants first of all.

but as for the rest he worketh not in them by doing any thing within them himself but giveth them up to be moved and misruled partly by their own lusts and partly by the devil howbeit in such wise as their lewdness can neither will nor work any thing but that which he hath most rightly ordained section four

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You're listening to Classic Audiobook Collection. Give us five stars and share with a friend who likes free audiobooks as much as we do. Now back to the show. Section 5 of A Book of Christian Questions and Answers by Theodor Beezer, translated by Arthur Golding. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain. Question, what think you then of the name of permission or sufferance?

Answer, if by the name of sufferance there be meant that difference which I spake of even now, namely that God worketh not in the evil persons, but leaveth them up to Satan and to their own lusts, I mislike it no whit. But if sufferance be matched against willingness, I reject it, first as false, and secondly as utterly against reason.

that it is false it is manifest by this that if god suffer any thing to be done against his will then surely he is not god that is to say almighty but if he be said to suffer a thing as though he were reckless how far are we from the opinion of epicure it remaineth then that look what he suffereth to be done he suffereth it willingly willingness therefore is not to be matched against sufferance again if it be false it must needs also be against reason

and i say that this absurdity may appear sufficiently to any heedful person by this that the authors of the distinction whereby sufferance is matched against willingness do by that means not only not attain to that which they would that is to wit that god should not be accounted the author of evil which thing we acknowledge with all our hearts but also bring the flat contrary to pass

for who is more in fault than he which a great way off foreseeing a mischief that is to come and being able to disappoint the same with his only beck not only disappointeth it not but also suffereth it that is to say giveth leave to execute the mischief for not even they that be of that opinion do deny but that satan and much rather wicked men have not any power to do any mischief but by appointment

in case as if a man having a cruel lion shut up in a cage might with ease keep him in from hurting folk and yet not only would not but also would let him loose and suffer him to run upon this man or that man perchance thou wilt say that so men's sins deserve i grant it yet notwithstanding it remaineth still that god's willingness matcheth with his sufferance like as when a magistrate delivereth an offender into the executioner's hand

appointing him the manner of his punishment and therefore that there is no reason to say that sufferance striveth against willingness question what then do evil persons perform god's will answer if you take will in his general signification that is to wit

for that thing which God hath willingly determined to have come to pass, and refer the word do, not to the intent and purpose of the wicked, but to the very falling out of the matter, then surely God executeth his will, that is to say, that he hath determined from everlasting, even by the wicked also, according to this saying, who shall resist God's will.

but if that by the name of will ye mean the thing that of itself is acceptable unto god and will have the word do to import a right affection of obeying then truly i answer that the wicked sort not only do not god's will but also are carried wholly to the contrary part

Surely I have not anything to allege against it. Notwithstanding, I come back again to that which you have answered, namely that God created all things good at the beginning. From whence then comes their faultiness? For if it entered without God's appointment, then is your saying impeached, namely that nothing at all is exempted from God's providence? No, not even from his working providence. But if God's appointment forwent it, speak it not of purpose to blaspheme him,

how is he not the author of all evil answer the cause of the faultiness of the angels and of the first man was the willing inclination of their own wills unto evil for god had created them but changeably good for to be of itself unchangeably good is peculiar only unto god alone question then both the angels that never fell nor never shall fall and also all they that shall be gathered up into everlasting life should be gods

Answer, I deny the consequence, for that the blessed angels never fell, nor never shall fall, and that there shall not be any end of their everlasting blessedness, it cometh not of their unchangeable nature, for that is peculiar unto God alone. But because they be continually underpropped with the power of the unchangeable God, which power, if it should forsake them, as forsake them it might if God would,

then doubtless might they not only be changed but also utterly banish away and be brought to nothing and therefore i have said that the cause of faultiness is the willing inclination of the will which was made good indeed albeit yet able to be changed unto evil for the said will was changeable by god's ordinance who created it so because that otherwise look how many unchangeable natures he had made so many gods had he made

and changed it was at God's forsaking of it, for to whom is he bound, but yet by changing itself of its own accord, so as the cause of faultiness may seem to be imputed, rather to forsaking than to enforcing. Question, but if this change happened not without God's foredetermination, verily it may seem that all this inconvenience is to be fathered upon him."

answer that followeth not forasmuch as god's determination took not away the will of the first man and so also neither his advisement or choosing but only ordered it

for he was changed by falling utterly of his own accord which thing is to be understood much more of the falling of the angels whose faultiness crept upon them from at home and perhaps that was the cause that moved god to have pity upon men which fail by the stepping in of the devil and not to have pity of the devil and his angels

question, but otherwise it could not come to pass than God had ordained should come to pass. Answer, I grant both, for neither were it reason that the said everlasting ordinance, wherein I showed a little erst, that all things and everything without exception are comprehended, should be shut out from the changing of the chief piece of work, and to avouch that such manner of ordinance were changeable, it were a point of wickedness.

let both of them therefore be most true yet doth it not thereupon follow either that the fault is in god who as i said doth always well yea even then also when his instruments offend or that man is without fault as who hath not offended but willingly for this necessity where through the thing that god had ordained must needs come to pass hath not taken away either will or happening but rather hath ordered and disposed them

considering that among the causes of men's doings even the chiefest cause is will question your meaning then is that the necessity of choosing that which god hath ordained from the beginning repugneth not against will but happening is said to be that which may either fall out or not fall out

a yea and i say more plainly that willingness or happening are not taken away by necessity but by compulsion as for example it was of necessity that christ should die in the age time and place foreordained from everlasting for else the prophets might have lied

And yet, if he have an eye to the natural disposition of Christ's flesh by itself, without the full determination of God, there is no doubt but by nature he might have lived longer, and therefore that in that respect he died by hap. Christ's bones might have been broken, if he look upon the nature of bones by themselves, but if he look unto God's ordinance, they could no more be broken than it is possible that God should alter his determination."

and therefore the unchangeable necessity of God's ordinance doth not take away the happening of the second causes, but dispose it. Also it was of necessity that Christ died by the ordinance of his Father, and yet he died willingly. Yea, and God forbid that ever we should die unwillingly, who, notwithstanding, must of necessity die once. And what more? God himself is most freely, yea, and most willingly good, and yet is it utterly impossible that he should not be good."

"'forgo willingness and necessity are not repugnant,'

for whereas it was of necessity that of two repugnant things adam must choose but the one although none of them both was within the compass of his own will yet surely the one of them was set down in the everlasting ordinance of god which ordinance was both out of adam's will and above his will and yet compelled not his will but rather forasmuch as his will could not take both of them it willingly and of its own accord inclined finally to that part which the ordinance of god had foreset

Question, but surely that necessity which is entered in together with lust into man's heart, in such wise as he cannot but sin, according as thou hast declared afore, seemeth to take away happening. Answer, although I should grant it to be so, yet cannot men be exempted from blame, first because this necessity of sinning, wherewith mankind is now overwhelmed, cometh not of the Creator, but of the willing inclination of man's natural will unto evil, as I said afore.

and who will think it strange that he should be burned which hath willingly cast himself into the fire?

Again, although it be not of hap, but of necessity, that man is now carried unto evil, considering that since he is corrupted by sin, he is, as the apostle saith, become the bond-slave of sin, and so remaineth till he be set free by the Son of God; yet notwithstanding that which he doth, he doth it willingly, and unconstrained. For like as he cannot but do evil, so also he delighteth not in any other than evil,

albeit that the evil lurking sometime under the colour of good do make him take it for good, and therefore not even this necessity, which was brought in by willing fall, taketh away the willing moving of the will, which thing being granted, it followeth that man is verily the cause of sin inasmuch as although he sin of necessity, yet he sinneth willingly, and yet, say I not, that happening is taken away by this necessity neither."

For although that in man, which is held bound under necessity of sinning, and is not yet regenerated, there remaineth now no deliberating whether he may choose the true good or the evil, as there was in man's nature afore his fall, yet notwithstanding there remaineth a deliberating between evil and evil, for where the case standeth not upon choice of this or that, there is no deliberating or debating."

now then even the headiest and hastiest men that be do deliberate but neither can they understand anything nor think anything and therefore much less deliberate of anything but either with straying from the good or else plainly against their conscience ergo all their deliberating is busied about the choosing between two evils or more

and their preferring of the one or the other cometh altogether by hap as in respect of their own voluntary will which happening the unchangeable ordinance of god doth no more take away now in men corrupted than it took away in old time in mankind uncorrupted

Question. The sum, then, of the things which thou hast spoken concerning providence is this, that nothing in the whole world cometh to pass against God's will or without his knowledge, that is to say rashly and casually, but altogether in such wise as God himself hath ordained them from everlasting, disposing all the mean causes most mightily and effectually, so as they be carried on to their appointed end of necessity, as in respect of his ordinance, and yet that

that he is not an author or a lower of any evil, because he dealeth always most rightfully with what instruments soever he execute his work. Answer, so it is.

Question, this is yet again the thing that troubleth me. For although I see that God worketh rightfully by the evil sort, yet notwithstanding if all and everything be done by God's eternal ordinance, so as nothing at all may be excluded, then it remaineth that the evil doings of the evil persons, even in respect that they be evil, are not exempted from God's ordinance, which thing methinks cannot be said without wickedness.

answer needs must he be sore troubled and to no purpose which laboreth to comprehend god's wisdom within the bounds of his own reason for i pray you if you would go about to contain the whole ocean in a drinking cup what should you else do but only lose your labour and be counted a fool for so doing and yet more tolerable though not to be talked of is the proportioning between the main sea and the least cup that can be than between god's wisdom and the foolishness of man's most corrupt wit

nevertheless i suppose that this which thou objectest may also be fitly answered unto therefore i grant thee even this also that the evil works of evil men even in that they be evil in respect of themselves are not done against god's will or without his knowledge for were it so then should either godlessness or else epicurusness follow of necessity

But I say further, that if thou have an eye to God's ordinance, the very evil itself hath a respect of goodness, although it be evil in itself. So as this paradox of Augustine's is very true, namely, that it is good also that there should be evils, to the end that God should not suffer evils to be, and truly in not suffering he is not unwilling but willing. Question, what then shall we say that God willeth iniquity?

answer god forbid for it is the horriblest of all blasphemies to say so but stay thyself awhile i beseech thee that i may expound that which i have said so truly and godly as cannot be denied but god must also be avouched not to be the judge of the world

The name of will is taken sometime in the largest signification for that which God ordaineth or appointeth, in which signification we must utterly say either that God willeth all things, that is to say, that nothing cometh to pass which God will not have done, or that God is not almighty, if never so small a thing come to pass which he would not have done, or else that God regardeth not all things, if anything come to pass he cares not how."

and sometime by the name of will there is meant only that which liketh him, because it is good of its own nature. And after this manner the faithful only are said to obey God, and to execute his will, because that in this sense God is said to will, that is to say, to allow and accept, only that which is good, and not to will iniquity. Which will of his is uttered fully unto us in his law, but his other will is not so, but in part.

for who knoweth what shall befall but this one day and nothing shall befall but that which god hath from everlasting both willed and ordained to befall

Question, can God be thought to have willed or ordained anything which he misliketh, and so consequently which is evil? Answer, truly it must needs be confessed, that whatsoever God hath ordained, it is ordained altogether willingly. But even herein also appeareth rightly his infinite wisdom, that with him even the darkness hath a respect of light, yea, and that in such wise as it nevertheless both is, and continueth darkness still, that

That is to say, it is good that there should be also some evil

Because God findeth the reason how it may come to pass that the thing which both is and continueth evil still of its own nature, may nevertheless have a respect of goodness before him, and how the thing that is against his will, that is to say, which of its own nature is unrighteous and therefore pleaseth not God, may not come to pass without his will, that is to say, without his ordinance, as for example's sake, that God saveth his elect by redemption freely given in his Son Christ, it is

it is to his own exceeding great glory which otherwise should not have shone forth but man should not have needed redemption from sin and death except there had been sin and death ergo in respect of god's ordinance it was good that sin and death should enter into the world

and yet the same sin both is and continueth so sinful of its own nature as amends could not be made for it but by most terrible punishment again we recover much more in christ than we forewent in adam ergo adam's fall was the best and profitablest thing that could be for us as in respect of god who by his wonderful means prepareth a kingdom of everlasting glory for us in christ

and yet this fall is so evil of its own nature that even we that believe and are justified do feel many mysteries and mischances which spring of it even to the death

Also it is greatly to the glory of God that he showeth himself a most sore punisher of all sin. But if there had been no sin, there had been no gap open for this judgment to come in at. Ergo, in respect of God's ordinance, it was good that there should be sin, and that the same should afterwards be spread abroad, to be punished with everlasting pains in the devils, and in all that be set without Christ."

Also St. Peter saith, It is the will of God, that is to say, it is his ordinance, that when we do well, we should be mistreated. But he that doeth well cannot be hurt but by sin. Ergo, in respect of God that willeth it, that is to say, which ordaineth it, it is good that there should be persecutors of the church, whom notwithstanding he justly punisheth afterward most severely as offenders against his will, that is to say, as doers against that which he alloweth.

therefore even by the express words of the apostles the thing that is against god's will that is to say against that which he alloweth and commandeth cometh not to pass without his will that is to say without his ordinance and yet can it not therefore be said that god is contrary to himself or that he willeth iniquity according as augustine doth rightly conclude against julian out of the word of god question therefore it seemeth right that sufferance should be distinguished from willingness

Answer, what I deem meet to be thought of this distinction I have spoken a little afore. Truly if sufferance be matched against will, that is to say against ordinance, such oversetting is not only false but also foolish and fond, considering that even in such actions as are not of free choice by themselves, as for example when merchantmen that be in a danger do cast out their goods, and generally as often as men choose the less evil to avoid the greater inconvenience,

even the heathen men acknowledge free-will to bear sway but if sufferance be matched against willingness that is to wit against that which god is willing withal as well liked and accepted of by itself and of its own nature so as the thing that is good of itself may be matched against that which is good but by well falling out and which hath some respect of good in it not of its own nature but in respect of the end that it is guided unto by god

through whose incomprehensible wisdom even the darkness doth service unto the light then truly i admit it so that this also be added to it namely that the same is not a vain and idle sufferance as a numbered dream but a most workful and yet nevertheless a most rightful sufferance for the better understanding whereof take the matter in few words to stand thus

I think thou wilt not say that a judge is but an idle looker-on, when upon the hearing of a transgressor's case he delivereth him to the sheriff to be put to this kind of punishment or that. For surely the sheriff doth not so much put him to death, as he is the instrument of the judge that putteth him to death. So as if any cruelty be extended in that behalf by the sentence of the judge, the same may be imputed not so much to the executioner as to the judge that commanded him."

Q. I grant all this, but how many unlikely hods be there between these and the other things that we entreat of? A. I confess that, for else there should be no difference, or at least wise, very small, between a like thing and a same thing. Nevertheless, I would have you reckon up, at least wise, the chief of them, that I may answer to them one by one. Q. In the sentence of judges, there goeth trial before, but in these things whereof you entreat, there is oftentimes no such thing perceived. A.

how many things are done justly by the magistrates of this world the trial whereof is not seen of their subjects that wilt thou attribute less unto god who searcheth thoroughly all things that lie hid even in the bottom of men's hearts as well past as to come q the sheriff doth nothing but by commission received but where have the wicked men received any such commandment as to kill one another or to hurt good men

Answer, in this thou art deceived, that whatsoever God appointed to be done, thou imaginest him to give knowledge of it with some loud voice unto those whose service he purposeth to use in the doing of it. But experience itself teacheth that that is not always true in neither of the cases, that is to say, whether he have determined to use mercy or to use justice. No, not even then when he useth instruments to have understanding."

for who doubteth but that pharaoh was ordained of god to entertain joseph and to prepare harbour for his church and yet he received no such commandment outwardly no nor so much as thought of any such thing in himself nevertheless that was ordained of god and the covert motion of pharaoh's heart tended to the executing of that which the lord had ordained

that the chaldees were ordained to punish the evil israelites and to nurture the good the prophets had foretold it a thousand times yea and that in such wise as nebuchadnezzar had received express commandment concerning the same thing insomuch as the lord doth also call him his servant yet did not the lord command the chaldees any such thing by name but as ezekiel writeth

giving over the king's heart partly to satan and to his soothsayers and partly to his own lusts he inclined him of his own sway to perform that which god had determined

how much more must we believe the same to be done as oft as the lord useth the things that want reason or also that be utterly without life as his executioners for so did he call the flies frogs grasshoppers hail and death to punish pharaoh so also saith the wisest of all men that even the very lots fall not out at adventure

for all things serve by a secret motion to execute God's ordinances. But this difference there is, that the good instruments do nothing but through faith, that is to say upon assurance that they be called to that which they do, and with a mind settled to obey. But as for the evil instruments, forasmuch as they be led by a blind beard by Satan and their own lusts, have an eye to nothing less than to the obeying of God."

against whose express word they either know or ought to know that all their intents and purposes do fight therefore they serve not the lord although god do secretly use the travail of them even against their wills in such wise as they do not anything else than that which the wonderful workmaster himself hath ordained q then let us stay here concerning god's eternal providence

from the which i see not that any thing at all may be exempted and let us if you please proceed to predestination which i would first and foremost have described unto me answer predestination being considered in general is nothing else but the same thing that we have called god's determination or ordinance howbeit as having regard to the end or work of the very ordinance

For there is nothing which the wise creator of all things, who doubtless hath neither made anything unadvisedly, nor can be deceived or alter his purpose, hath not ordained both to middle ends and especially to some one uttermost point of all, but custom hath won that predestination is considered chiefly in the governing of mankind, thus therefore do I describe it.

I say it is God's everlasting and unchangeable ordinance, going in order before all the causes of salvation and damnation, whereby God hath determined to be glorified, in some by saving them of his own mere grace in Christ, and in other some by dampening them through his rightful justice in Adam, and in other some by damning them through his rightful justice in Adam and in themselves,

And after the custom of the scripture, we call the former sort the vessels of glory, and the elect or chosen, that is to say, folk appointed to salvation from before all worlds through mercy, and the other sort we call reprobates or castaways, and vessels of wrath, that is to say, appointed likewise to rightful damnation from everlasting, either of both which God hath known severally from time without beginning.

q but it is a hard case to say that there be some fore appointed to damnation and therefore thou knowest that many refer the word predestination only to the chosen and that they say rather that the reprobates are fore known

answer i know what that meaneth many were afraid lest they should make god the cause of the destruction of the reprobates and also report him to be cruel if they should confess that the reprobate also are predestinated of god but they needed to have feared none of both as shall be shewed in due place

again that is but a fond starting-hole for if foreknowledge as they call it carry the force of a cause no less than predestination doth then say they that which they would not say but if it have not then may they also say that god is not the cause of the salvation of them that be predestinated

for why the apostle in reckoning out the causes of the salvation of the chosen setteth down prognosis which these men interpret foreknowledge in the first place yea and luke setteth down the same foreknowledge as the groundwork of our redemption rightly therefore doth augustine acknowledge predestination on both sides although he do now and then shoal out the predestinate sort from the foreknown

but let us away with this strife about terms my meaning was only to shew that i had done aright in setting down predestination for a general term whereof there be two particular sorts which notwithstanding do meet together and that is a thing inespecally to be marked no less in the end than in the head and original beginning for the head-spring of them both is the ordinance of god

and both the ways which are as it were cut out from the head do meet again in the uttermost point that is to wit in the glory of god

these things being set down to the end i may answer to that exception of thine namely that it seemeth a hard case that there should be some predestinated unto death i say that these things ensuing seem unto me much harder namely that god should not have for purposed some certain end with himself in creating men albeit that even as the unwisest workmen of them all do rightly witness the end is the first thing in the intent of the doer

that god in creating men purposed an end to himself which afterward should fall out in certainly that is to wit in such sort as it should rest in the power of the clay and not in the power of the potter to make the things come to pass or not come to pass which the workmaster had purposed

that god knowing the will of his own handiwork should alter his own purpose so that whereas he had determined to save all in christ yet notwithstanding he should alter his mind and destroy all such as would not incline to that purpose for all these things say i do of necessity follow their opinion which uphold that such as perish do perish contrary to god's appointment

and lest we may seem to wander without our lists that is to say not to deal by only consequences of reason first i say that all opinions which strive against the just proportion of faith of which sort this must needs be one the granting whereof is accompanied with so many wicked things are plucked in pieces by the holy scriptures

Secondly, I say that, as oft as the Scripture maketh mention of the predestination of the chosen sort, so often is the predestination of the reprobates confirmed likewise, inasmuch as the cause itself requireth that, whereas some be chosen unto life, the residue must be understood to be appointed unto death.

Furthermore, seeing that the vessels of glory be said to be predestinated to glory, the oversetting of flat contraries doth utterly require that we should consider the vessels of wrath to be such as are predestinated unto death. Question, but here it is noted that when the apostle entreateth of the vessels of glory, he useth a word that importeth doing, and when he speaketh of the vessels of wrath, he useth a word that importeth suffering.

Answer, I grant that, if it be demanded of the middle causes whereby the vessels of wrath are carried to the wrath that is appointed for them, they themselves are the only cause of their own damnation. But truly this destruction is toyish, for Luke, in treating of the elect, useth a participle of the passive voice, saying, As many as were ordained to everlasting life, what was that of themselves, and not rather of the mere grace of God?

besides this it is nothing to the matter for we entreat not of salvation or damnation but of the ordinance to salvation or damnation which disposeth and ordereth the very causes of executing them and therefore in no wise hangeth upon them for that is altogether above the skies as the old proverb saith

to be short whither is it harder to say that some be predestinated to damnation than to say they be registered to damnation long ago as st jude speaketh or to say that they be appointed to wrath as paul speaketh

lastly i say not that the damnation of the reprobates is the end that god purposed upon his fore-ordinance but his own glory neither also did i simply say that the reprobates were appointed to damnation but i said they were ordained to just damnation showing thereby that although no man be damned but such as the lord hath ordained to damnation for otherwise the aforesaid blasphemies that i spake of would follow of necessity

yet are none damned but such as are found to have in themselves just causes of damnation what falseness then or what roughness hath my foresaid saying in it end of section this podcast is brought to you by carvana

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section six of a book of christian questions and answers by theodore beza translated by arthur golding this librivox recording is in the public domain q you seem to be disproved by this saying god will have all men saved and by such other like universal sentences

Answer, then say thou that some be damned, whether God will or no, or else confess that the said text must be taken otherwise, which things the promises also do show, namely, which thing even the schoolmen themselves have espied, that thereby must be meant, not the particulars of all kinds, but all kinds of particulars, to speak more plainly, so as it may be not an universal, but an indefinite proposition, which ought to be interpreted thus rather, that

that is to wit that god will have any manner of men to be saved which self kind of speech matthew useth when he saith that the lord healed all sicknesses and diseases that is to say all sorts or kinds of diseases according as both latin men and englishmen do now and then speak

for i pray you dare any man say that god will have all men saved yea even though they continue in unbelief to the very last gasp truly no for if it be the father's will that he which believeth in the son should not perish it followeth that it is his will also

That which believeth not in the Son should perish, and therefore those two things, namely, to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth, must be yoked together, so as it may be understood that God will have those only to be saved, whom he vouchsafeth to come to the knowledge of the truth. But faith, which is this true knowledge, lighteth neither upon all men, nor yet upon the runner or willer as the apostle witnesseth, but cometh of God's mercy, and lighteth upon them only, which, as

as Luke saith, are ordained to everlasting life; and whose hearts, as the same Luke writeth, God openeth, so as they take heed to his word. Then must we understand that God's predestination extendeth to all sorts of men, that is to wit, both Jews and Gentiles, private persons and magistrates, men and women, old men and young men, slaves and gentlemen, such as be guilty of many sins, and such as be guilty of fewer sins.

for these only and such other like are the circumstances that are included in the foresaid sentence question will you then make election to be particular answer and i would fain know if the man be in his right wits that imagineth election to be universal for truly he that taketh all maketh no choice and he that chooseth a thing out from two other things or more must needs be said to refuse or forsake the things that he chooseth not

question maturely the calling and promise are universal a understand them to be indefinite yea and that in respect of certain circumstances of which i have spoken and thou shalt think the right layer and so altogether are those things also to be taken which diverse learned men of our time have written about this controversy or else see how very reason of necessity confuteth that universal calling

for if ye mean it of the calling by the preaching of the word it is not true that all men are or ever were yea or ever shall be called severally hereafter for how many have died do die and shall die before they have heard aught at all of this word

but if ye take it to be meant of the other calling which hath a much larger scope namely of the beholding of nature whereby is understood that which may be known of god not even this neither is so universally true as that it comprehendeth every several person for how many have died and daily do die in such an age as is utterly unfit for that contemplation

there cannot nor may not any calling and much less any election be warranted to be universal but only to be indefinite and that must also be only with an exclusion of these certain circumstances aforesaid

Q. But what if we say that all men are called universally to salvation under condition that they believe, and therefore that salvation is offered universally as in respect of God which calleth, and that the fault why this calling is not universally of effect is not in God, but in the stubbornness of the unbelievers which refuse the good turn that is offered them? A. This doubtless is true in some respect.

for no doubt but the stubbornness of the unbelievers is the thing that disappointeth the application and efficacy of the promises that be offered no doubt also but calling hath a larger scope than election but yet your supposals are neither truly enough nor fitly enough spoken for first we have shewed that not even the outward calling whether ye look to that which is natural or to that which is done by the word of the gospel pertaineth to every several person

wherefore as touching those that we speak of there is found in them no stubbornness against the gospel but only original corruption which notwithstanding is even of itself alone sufficient to damn the reprobates besides this although the condition of believing be annexed yet doth not the ordinance hang upon that but rather that hangeth upon the ordinance as which goeth in order before all other inferior causes

else see how false and unreasonable things ensue for it will follow that god in devising with himself did first set before him his whole work as already finished and that according as he saw his work should be disposed of itself and not by him that made it he should thereupon take occasion to determine that is to say to appoint either to salvation or damnation or if he like better that god himself was uncertain how the performing or not performing of the condition would fall out

then must it be concluded that god's ordinance hangeth in suspense and that the determination of a case as augustine trimly saith is not in the power of the potter but of the clay and hereupon will be grounded another false opinion namely that faith hath not his beginning of god but of the will of man if it be so that god's foresight gave him cause to determine upon his choice

neither is it to the purpose to object that faith is not foreseen forasmuch as it is a gift of god that cometh in by the way but that corruption and unbelief are foreseen which are natural in man after his fall for the reason of the contraries requireth in any case that look in what degree faith is placed in the ordinance of election even in the same degree must faithlessness or unbelief be placed in the ordinance of reprobation

Therefore, if ye make faith foreknown to be the cause of the ordinance of election, which is utterly a point of a Pelagian, and therefore repealed by Augustine, ye must needs deem the same also of unbelief in the contrary ordinance of reprobation. And on the other side, if ye submit faith unto the said ordinance, as ye needs must, for we be chosen to the intent to believe, and not because we would or should believe, ye must needs also in the contrary member submit unbelief to the ordinance of reprobation.

Question, will you then make the ordinance of reprobation to be the cause of unbelief as well as you make the ordinance of election to be the cause of faith?

Answer, no, for the ordinance of election is indeed the efficient cause of faith. But corruption or unbelief with the fruits thereof are in such wise put under the ordinance of reprobation, as that the will of man is the first efficient cause of them, and yet notwithstanding they be subject to the ordinance, because that although it be not through the ordinance, yet is it not besides the ordinance, nor without the ordinance, that those things happen, whereof the failing cause, and not the efficient cause, is grounded in God, as I said afore.

for like as they only believe in whom god created faith even so through god's forsaking of man's will sin is crept into mankind and there abideth yielding ill fruit as many as god listeth to leave up to their own lusts that they may be the cause of their own damnation whereunto they are also enregistered and appointed from everlasting

Furthermore, that I may retire unto the other question, whatsoever is said of the forenamed condition which is annexed to the ordinance, as who should say that the ordinance depended upon the condition, it is unfiddley spoken, for the ordinance of saving the elect sort is another thing than the very glorifying of the elect, and the ordinance of damning the reprobates is another thing than the very damning of them, insomuch as the ordinance itself must needs be distinguished from the execution of it.

The execution, then, of the ordinance of election, that is to wit, the salvation of the chosen, dependeth upon faith that taketh hold of Christ, and the execution of the ordinance of reprobation, that is to wit, the damnation of the castaways, dependeth upon sin and their fruits thereof, according to this saying of the prophet, Thy destruction, O Israel, cometh of thyself. And of this ordinance of choosing some men to be saved by grace, and of refusing other some to be damned through their own sins,

we know none other cause but this one namely that the lord who is both incomparably merciful and incomparably rightful will be glorified in that wise he that holds not himself contented with this forasmuch as he seeketh some higher thing and some rightfuller thing than god's will he is worthily reproved by the apostle for a babbler question ergo god hateth some not for their sin's sake but because he listeth so to do

Answer, this is a slanderous objection, for it is certain that God hateth no man but for sin, for otherwise he had hated his own work. But it is one thing to hate and another thing to ordain one to just hatred, for the cause of the hatred is manifest, namely even sin. But why God appointeth whom he listeth unto just hatred? Though the cause be hid from us, saving to the end he may be glorified, yet cannot it not be unrighteous, considering that the will of God is the only rule of rightfulness?

for if we speak of this sovereign will of god which ordereth and disposeth the causes of all things we must not say that a thing ought to be rightful before god should will it but contrariwise that god must first will the thing before it can be rightful which whoso considereth not shall reason not confusedly in this matter

Question. But yet for all this God seemeth to be a regarder of persons if he yield not alike unto all that have done alike. For in this point all men are like, that they be corrupted by nature spread into them from Adam. Answer. Nay, truly it followeth not of necessity that whosoever yieldeth not alike unto like should be an acceptor of persons, but he only which yieldeth not alike unto like, because he is partially moved by some circumstances that accompany the person itself.

as if two men were offenders alike, and the judge should acquit the one of them because he is rich, or his kinsman, or his countryman. For these be the persons that may not be regarded of him that will judge uncorruptly. But I pray you let us put the case that two men be indebted unto you, both in like sum, and both upon like conditions. Now if of your liberality you forgive the one his debt, and exact the other man's debt according to extremity of law, shall there be any accepting of persons in this behalf?"

what if some sovereign having a couple that offend alike do of his mere grace pardon the one man's offence and punish the other according to his deserts shall there be any partiality in the matter nay truly if there be any fault in such dealing it is not towards him that is punished but towards him that is born withal and that is but a gentle fault

much less therefore can any partiality or regard of persons be deemed to be in the case which we have now in hand considering how god acquitteth not the elect but by the imputation of christ's satisfaction and if anything may be called in question as scarce indifferent in this behalf men may seem to cavil rather upon the mercy towards the elect than upon the rightful rigour towards the castaways

finally to what end is all this for in order of causes god's ordinance goeth before the very creation of mankind unless thou wilt make god so unwise a workman as to create mankind before he had determined with himself to what end he would make him and what could he see in them that as yet had no being whereby he might be moved to determine this or that concerning them

therefore this discourse also pertaineth not to the ordinance but to the execution of the ordinance wherein notwithstanding as i said even now there can null partiality or accepting of persons be found question dost thou not then by the term lump which the apostle paul useth understand the created and corrupted mankind where out of god ordaineth some to honour and some to dishonour answer there is no doubt but god taketh both the swords out of the same lump ordaining them to contrary ends

yet do i say and plainly avouch that paul in the same similitude mounteth up to the said sovran ordnance whereunto even the very creation of mankind is submitted in order of causes and therefore much less doth the apostle put the foreseen corruption of mankind before it for first by the term lump there is manifestly betokened a substance as yet unshapen and only prepared to work upon afterward

again in likening god to a potter and mankind to a lump of clay whereof vessels are to be made afterward out of all doubt the apostle betokeneth the first creation of men furthermore he should speak improperly to say that vessels of wrath are made of that lump for if that lump betokened men corrupted then they were the vessels of dishonor already and the potter should not be said to make them other than such as they had made themselves already

finally so should the cause as well as the ordinance of reprobation as of the execution of the same ordinance that is to wit of the damnation of the reprobate be manifest for men should see it were corruption but why then should the apostle mount up to that secret will of god which is rather to be honoured than searched if he had so ready an answer at hand specially which might carry a likelihood of truth with it even in the reason of man

Question, truly thou compellest me to agree unto thee even in this point also, but yet this is another thing that troubleth me, if this ordinance be of necessity and unchangeable as it is indeed, to what purpose do men disquiet themselves, for whether they do well, they must nevertheless perish if they be ordained to damnation, or whether they do ill, they shall be saved if they be ordained to life.

Q. Certainly it is a fond objection to surmise that thing which never shall nor can come to pass, for from whence comes repentance and the fruits thereof, truly even from regeneration through the Spirit of Christ taken hold on by faith. But true faith is given to the chosen sort only, ergo only the elect do repent and give themselves to good works.

the rest have not so much as they will to think of anything aright and much less to do it considering that to will aright and to do aright cometh of god's grace which is peculiar only to the chosen and therefore as fond also is the saying of them which hold opinion that they shall be saved if they be chosen

what kind of life soever they give themselves unto for as many as be chosen are the children of god but if they be god's children then also as the apostle saith they be led by god's spirit and therefore the elect truly cannot perish for then should god's ordinance fail or else at leastwise god should be changeable but like as they cannot perish so also are they in their seasonable time endued with faith and engrafted in christ in whom they be justified sanctified and glorified

Question, but yet, must they needs perish that are ordained to damnation? Answer, I grant, but yet, is it because they be sinners? For evermore between the ordinance and the execution of the ordinance there steppeth in sin, which will stop the mouths of any men, be they never so captious. For what is more rightful than that God should punish sin? And to whom is he bound to show mercy?"

therefore i am not wont to marvel that any man perisheth but i marvel that god's goodness can be so great as that all do not perish question because thou hast so often distinguished the middle causes from the ordinance that disposeth them i would also have them rehearsed on either part

Answer, forasmuch as God, as it may be perceived by the falling out of things, had determined from everlasting to set forth his glory chiefly in mankind, which glory consisteth partly in extending mercy and partly in extending hatred against sin, he created man, sound both within and without, and endued him with right understanding and will, but yet he made him changeable.

for he himself being singularly good could not create and will any evil and yet except evil had entered into the world there had been no room neither for mercy nor for justice

man therefore being changeable brought himself and all that should be born out of him in bondage of sin and of god's wrath willingly and altogether by mishap as in respect of the beginning that sticked in man himself that is to say in respect of his own will albeit that it were of necessity if he consider god's ordinance and the sequel of the matter

from thenceforth the lord according as he had determined from everlasting bringing forth now some and then some doth so lead them forth to their appointed ends to be glorified in them on either side that of them in whom he will have his glory to appear by their salvation some he removeth out of hand to eternal life as freely composed within his covenant and other some whom it pleaseth him to have to continue longer in this life

he calleth by the effectual word of the gospel some time earlier and some time later at what time he listeth and grafteth them into christ in whom he justifieth them sanctifieth them and finally rewardeth them with eternal life

and as for the residue which are appointed to his rightful vengeance for to whom is he debtor either he destroyeth them out of hand or else patiently giving them respite that they may not be altogether without taste of his goodness either he vouchsafeth not to call them at all or he calls them no further but to make them the more unexcusable hereupon it cometh to pass that being left up to their own lusts they harden themselves until they have filled up the full measure of wickedness and then they pass away unto judgment

in what wise these causes of the damnation of the reprobates do come to pass besides the ordinance of god who forsaketh the reprobates and delivereth them up to satan and to themselves as that the whole blame doth notwithstanding stick altogether in themselves i have showed already in due place then must the vessels of mercy praise the lord and the vessels of wrath blame themselves but whither may i flee for succour in the perilous temptation of particular election

Answer, unto the effects whereby the spiritual life is certainly discerned, and so consequently our election, like as the life of the body is perceived by feeling and moving. For we that wallow as yet in the puddle of this world are not able to lift up ourselves unto that sovereign light, except we mount up by those steps whereby God draweth his chosen unto him, according to his foresaid everlasting ordinance, as whom he hath created to his own glory."

therefore that i am chosen i shall perceive first by the holiness or sanctification begun in me that is to say by my hating of sin and by my loving of righteousness hereunto i shall add the witness of the holy ghost comforting my conscience like as david said why art thou heavy o my soul and why dost thou grieve thyself put thy trust in the lord

Here, too, pertaineth the earnest minding of God's benefits, which, though it rather frayeth us than comforteth us for a time, while we think therewithal upon our own unthankfulness, yet at the length it must needs lift us up forasmuch as therein are always to be seen the manifest tokens of his free and unchangeable fatherly love towards us, not shadowed but plainly expressed, upon this sanctification and comfort of the Holy Ghost."

we gather faith and thereby we rise up unto christ to whom whomsoever is given is of necessity chosen in him from afore all worlds and shall never be thrust out of the doors q what if those witnessings be faint

Answer, then it behoveth us to know that we be tried, and therefore that our sluggishness is then most to be found fault with. Yet notwithstanding, our hearts must not in any wise shrink, but we must strengthen them with those indefinite promises, and throw darts at our adversary again, for although the encounter of the flesh against the spirit do constrain,

cumber our consciences with great doubtings to the trueness of our faith, specially as oft as the spirit seemeth to quail, and in a manner to be quite quenched. Yet notwithstanding, it is certain that this spirit which setteth itself truly, though but faintly, against the assaults of the flesh, is the spirit of adoption, the gift whereof is not to be repented of. For otherwise the elect might perish, and they that be once justified might fall away from Christ."

whereupon it would follow either that god is changeable or that the selling out of his ordinance is uncertain whereof none of both can be imputed to god without blasphemy question but the garland is given to those only that hold out answer i grant so and therefore whosoever is elected craveth perseverance and obtaineth it question think you then that the spirit of adoption is never shaken off

answer i confess that the spirit is now and then interrupted in sore temptations and that the testimonies of his dwelling in us are oftentimes so brought asleep that he seemeth to be quite gone from us for a time but yet for all that i say he is never quite taken away for needs must god's determination of saving his servants stand sure

and therefore when time serves at length the mists of the flesh are chased away and the gladness of the lord's saving health always restored which shineth as the sun into the troubled consciences of the elect

finally i say that true faith and the effects thereof are in likewise interpreted in the elect as the powers of the mind be hindered in them that have the sleepy disease or in drunken men in whom the soul is not taken away for there is great odds between the sleepy disease or drunkenness and very death and yet that they which have the spirit of adoption have an assured pledge of eternal life

Therefore, in this most dangerous encounter the same thing, wherewith Satan assaileth us, both can and must warrant us assured victory. For except the spirit of adoption, which is also the spirit of holiness, righteousness, faith, and life, were present in us, there should be no striving in us, but sin should reign quietly at his pleasure. For the man that is not endued with that spirit saith thus, I do the evil that I have a mind unto. I do no good, nor have I no list to do it.

But the man that is regenerated and so consequently elected, albeit as yet still wrestling, saith thus, I do the evil that I would not, and I do not the good that I would do. Woe is me who shall deliver me out of the body of this death. And in crying out in this wise, the elect person casteth his anchor in the very throne of God the Father, whom he beholdeth in the preached word and in the sacraments.

finally when the elect shall have gotten the full victory in the other world he shall say thus i do the good that i would do and i do none evil nor none i list to do question what if a man never feel the testimonies of such a spirit in himself

a yet must it not be deemed that he is one of the number of the reprobates for the lord calleth those that be his at what time he himself listeth and therefore such manner of men must be sent away to the wood and the sacraments where they may hear god speaking and alluring sinners unto him

for although they receive not the fruit and operation of those things for a time yet must they encourage themselves and also be diligently stirred up by others to continue in hearing the word of god even against their wills and then one time or other they shall obtain that which the lord as yet deferreth not to the intent to cast them off but contrariwise to sharpen their desire and earnestness

Q. I would, therefore, that we might talk among ourselves concerning the sacraments also, about the which, and especially, there is nowadays so great strife between the churches. A. Truly, I refuse not so to do, notwithstanding as I think we shall do that more conveniently another time. In the meanwhile, if you be satisfied in the things you have demanded, I am very glad, and would wish you to mind these things earnestly night and day.

All honour, glory, praise and thanks be only unto God the Father, through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

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