Will the world end before I can retire?
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Everybody see like decoder is on a short break this week. We will be back with a special live interview episode on monday. Next week, not regular programing will resume in december. I'm pretty excited for some episodes that we have on the schedule, but what we're out we wanted to highlight the great episode of a new podcast from friends over a vox called explain IT to me if you've not yet heard of explaining to me its boxes, new explained weekly show, video series and newsletter, replacing the policy focus podcast the weeds host drunken hill is still at the helm.

But this time of feeling hotline questions on anything and everything from big philosophical quandaries to everyday dilema, they have an actual funder you can call IT and just ask him any question you want here in the quote. We focus lot on the decision rating process of high profile business and policy leaders, meaning we don't often spend as much time on these small, pervasive decisions the ones will have to make that can sometimes feel impossible to understand before you have to make on this subject of explaining IT to me, drunk and her team tackle, one that loves large for a lot of Young people in america. How and when should you start saving for retirement and will not even matter in the future of big, often scary, uncertain ties about work in the age of A I in the if you're in lenny staring down the barrel of our rickety social safety and or a gensec that just entered the workforce might be one of the biggest decisions you make about the future. Okay, explain this to me and whether the world will end before we all retire. Here we.

And I ve get rich. Retire early with what money?

Hey, this is jungle hill, and you're turned to explain this to me, the hot line for all the questions you can't quite answer on your own today. We're tackling a call we got about retirement.

I will be listened to us in the retirement. Nobody can tell me.

This is Carolinum. SHE lives in the bay area where she's working her first real job after college. My insurance .

and a car in car payments. And IT just feels IT all feels very adult because I have like benefit, but also responsibility.

Now, oh my gosh, you you are so growing. Like, I do not have a car here. I think you're officially more grown than I am.

I could learn how a parallel park IT was really good.

Parallel parking is so hard. And like, I hate when people are just standing, they are watching you. And then someone is like, do you need help? It's like.

get away from me. Yes, exactly. But also I can use to help a little big.

And even though she's nowhere near the age to do IT, Caroline ina is already stressing about retirement.

retirement. I think it's strange because everyone tells you to start doing IT right away, to start saving right away. And that's like a very future looking things. And IT feels just weird to do that when you know that the future is going to look very different.

Have you gotten advice from older people about retirement? And you're to say, okay.

my size is married to an accountant and when I was eighteen, he lived like you need to max out your ross I R A starting now. And I was like, with what money I might just to put that money in the soft market. Like, think of you, you know the soft market is that we face, but the crushing, so is IT.

okay? That's also the same advice I got about a decade ago, started saving. Now contribute to your for one k you know, the drill.

I think survive is like just put away, like the money, the way that everybody tells you that you to you and hope that IT works out and try not to think too hard about how IT might not work out at all and you might need all that money anyway. And then you could have find IT for fun when you were Younger or her, just like being able to afford like that a chief.

okay? I'm going to use some restraint and not make a ton of feta chatter, cheese money puns. Because I get the point that CarOlina is making.

It's understandable why you might be hesitant to put your trust in a financial system that had a scare as recently as the summer between you and me. I did check my four one case shortly after that dip and IT was not cute. But financial collapse isn't. Caroline is only concern.

It's like, okay, well, if climate change really through that over there, I need a traditional skill for the upcoming upon to IT yeah like .

what are we going to do in the water wars?

Exactly exactly that you're making a bigger than that, like the financial market there, what you retire and they could not be a lot. Is that to happen between now? And like twenty seventeen, I like your job might get reacted by ChatGPT .

and you to the iron one. So Carry elina, what is that you'd like us define out for .

you even that everything is changing? Like is there any secure way for me to like start doing? Like I can really be worried about IT right now. I'm like, am I going to get to retire his? It's not looking so hard and also the planet is looking pretty hard and that's stressful.

Okay, everyone, so that's our mission for today. We'll find out if jensie should say for retirement or if the future is doomed and they should just be buying all that cheese instead. Is IT safe to say that you write about doom a lot?

Yes, i'm to a cronica of doom for sure.

That's a brian wash. He's an editor here. I vox, whenever you read anything about the future or the climate or international news, he's likely had a hand in IT.

And before I was a boxed, among other things, I wrote a twenty nine book called, in times a brief guy to the end of the world, which is basically what that subset suggests.

I wanted to bring Caroline this question to brian because he's kind of the resident doom expert around our newsroom. His book is organized by the different existent al threats we could face. You know, definitely not more bit at all. I should have created .

like an accurate for all these. We remember them, as I recall, its asteroid, super volcanoes, pandemics, nuclear war, biologically engineered biotech stuff, of course, artificial intelligence, also climate change and IT through an aliens at the end. Because IT was fun. And be kind of helped me understand, like even stop this far out there, how you begin to think about that.

okay. So careless mage gensec and she's wondering how SHE should think about retirement and like, yeah, there's this aspect of what to do about you're four one k in your investments and how was to save.

But she's also sort of getting at this question of what's the point of IT all like, will any of this exist by the time she's in her sixties? Is SHE for going these fancy groceries and trips for no reason? Like should he be enjoying the expensive fetch SHE wants now rather than saving for the sixty something version of herself? Well, that's a great question.

I want to just prefect by saying that I am not a financial professional and so you should not take any financial I might offer. But I understand that and it's interesting like absolutely like I understand the particularly acute like existential fears you were especially seeing from gensec right now. And then they have had to take tough go of IT, given the things that have happened in their lifetime just so far.

We human beings, we have a really hard time really imagine the future like we kind of know this can be a future me, but like, what do I owe that person? Are they really in me in the same way? Like, should I be sacrificing for them? Like these are questions that are about like on the personal level, but also kind of the global level.

She's particularly concerned about climate change, that top of mind for her of all of the dome scenarios. Does that one seem the most likely? Because I feel like that's the one like even in our news room, like that's the one we talk about the most.

No, yeah, climate change is a tRicky one because I think you know a it's not a binary thing like, let's say, nuclear war like a nuclear war either happens or IT doesn't climate change in either hand? What will happen with IT is like a whole continuum from like bad to Better to worse to like, okay, actually maybe the english of the world as we know IT. And so I think that's hard to sort of to understand that.

I mean, I say like i'm more worried about nuclear work just because IT could happen so fast. You know, where is climate change? Is the benefit that unfolds over like decades and decades. This also makes IT hard to deal with or stop in the same way, like on the whole. Like I look at the scenarios and the research I see.

And the good thing is that, but most of us are judging, is that the chance of like the worst cases seems to be less than I was ten years ago, fifteen years ago. And some of that is due to the fact like we're making amazing progress around renewable energy and solar power and things like that. We are actually making sort of technological innovations like we have slowed down carbon emissions. We might even have see carbon emissions peak fairly soon in globally, which would be amazing.

okay. So what is the climate change scenario where saving for retirement doesn't make sense? Like are we like sometimes when I think of this, I think of mad max. Like, okay, i'm gonna have to fight in the first water war, and my, you know, children will fight in the second great water war. Like, what does that worst case scenario look like?

If I think about like how climate change could lead to the end of the world, I think the way would happen is less directly then IT create so much chaos internationally um and with in a country like the united itself that you would then see really major conflict, major wars, maybe up in two and leading to a nuclear war that would be the thing that ends up but like may be I would look like that that I don't know. I don't think I look. I think we'll be all wearing as a bandage car and being on motorcycles and and what have you. But that said, like I still feel confident persons and and I think most experts I speak to that will make IT through definite wouldn't like just write off the future because of climate change at this point as much as I know that's a hard thing to really like .

rab your head around. okay. So we've gone to this climate change aspect, but one thing that CarOlina also brought up is financial crisis. Like could there be a financial collapse of some sort that would make planning for the future worthless? Like what's the what's the deal there?

You know, when people worry about like a big crash, like I think it's almost like the analytic to uses. Imagine like a forest. okay? Like forest is used to have fires more often, smaller ones. We kind of burn out the dead wood and IT reduced the risk of really, really big fire.

And I think I could understand, like what we worry about now with the global economy is like, almost like we had this big forest that is totally unmanaged and like one bad Spark, could just lead to a total inferno. Now that is like, not real great economic logy making, possibly. But yeah, I think that that is a concern. Like, again, that goes back to that idea that we live in like a more fragile ile social and political system than I think we often appreciate.

How certain is any of this you know I think that kind of the crux of the question, how how do you know what existence to play? And for it's an incredibly .

hard question. At the end of the day, there is now a whole academic field of study around these things at central risks. Then if you go that, like people will talk about their probabilities of various end of the world, things happen.

And I call IT like p do maxi your probability of doom. And that's just like the concerns about the end of the world, like or I think about things such as the way A I or gene editing is going to change the future. I mean, I is my job that i'd to try to imagine that I do the best I can, but I suspect it's going to turn out differently than I think.

Now should you be learning to code to my eye, or should to be learning how to fight road war in the APEC? I don't really know. Wishing ne is more likely. I think that is just the uncertainty have to live with. And I think that's a tough thing for human being to come to grab.

Do you have A P dom?

To have A P doom like across the board is interesting. I guess I would say, like, do I think the world as we know, I will end by the end of twenty one hundred. What's so like I would guess I once day twenty percent, which feels you know is that optimistic or pessimistic like i'm not really sure be onest.

How was covering this beat impact your own outlook on life? You know, I like i'm a person. I tend to spiral, so I don't know if I would do well constantly thing about mass extinction, but I wonder, you know, how you handle that and managed that and what he does for you.

What's funny? I mean, like I can say like how I think day a day and I do get word and there are times when I get really worried and that ah I can spire when that happens. But when you look at like how i'm living my life, for instance, like I am saving retirement for retirement, I mean among other things, like wouldn't really do that if I thought that works.

Going to no future. I have a child, my wife, I do. Like that's another sort of vote in the favor of a confidence that there will be a future.

And to summer up, should Carolineans say, for retirement, given all the risk and uncertainty about the future, like what? What's your advice?

What do you think? Yes, I think he absolutely should save for the future, even if you take that twenty percent chance. Like that leaves the eighty percent chance that you will be around in the future.

And I think your future self will be very grateful to you for for doing this like if you want to sort of pick your percenters in the four in gay based on you know how you say the world will end, i'm sure there's some form that I can do that. But yeah, now I think I think you should act as if that will be the case. That includes doing things like setting inside a little money for your golden neurons.

okay.

If you think about that way, if you think like there's not some other person that i'm doing the saving for this preparation for this is me just found the line I care about that person to a certain extent. Me maybe not enough like forgo all the good gees like some that I think that that helps make a worthwhile to me.

okay. So now we know we won't likely be in a mad max situation at least any time soon, and that Caroline a should probably set money aside for retirement up next, how to save for tomorrow and still have a little treat today.

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This is explaining IT to me. Before the break, brian told us, yeah, IT may seem like the world is ending, but you should still set your coins aside. That brings us to the second part of Carrying this question, the how to budgeting is hard, especially when IT basically cost forty dollars just to step outside. And Caroline a is adJusting to paying bills when things are more expensive than ever. Have you say for retirement when housing costs more than IT ever has into Vivian, to A K, A, your rich B, F, F.

if you're only in your thirties and forties.

but how do you think it's too late to be rich? You am Vivian. H, B, F, F, and your favorite watch girl. Y, and i'm teaching you all the finance and learn in school.

Vivian is a finance influencer and host of the podcast network in shell, which is now on the vox media podcast network. She's also author of the book rich af, the winning money mindset that will change your life. Right out of college, SHE worked as a day trade or on wall street.

Her mentor helped out daughter, had to contribute to her four one k, which smart moves to make financially, and treated hurt a lunch on a regular basis. Since then, Vivians done well for herself, like really well. Forbes named her as a top creator back in twenty twenty three.

And at the time, he was worth a little over three million dollars. Like I said, she's doing just fine. And look, I get IT. Sometimes IT can be really hard to take money advice from people who got IT like that. But IT was not always that way for.

I would say, my relationship with money very much stemmed from a scarcely mindset. I'm very lucky. I am the only daughter to two amazing chinese immigrant parents.

And my parents were very, very focused on the american dream and upward social and economic mobility. And as such, IT was always about scrimping and saving. In my house, there were no conversations around growing your wealth, getting rich. That was for other people .

when living in, started her career on wall street after college. Sure, he wanted to make money, but he also wanted the freedom that he saw people with money having IT wasn't as simple as a good job, though, even with a good entry level salary working in the financial industry, IT took a while to figure out how to manage her money.

People are always shocked when I tell them, when I first moved to york, I was living paycheck to paycheck.

That doesn't surprise me at all at all because like, I don't know, I had I remember like when I first start working and I was like, I just need more money like working this entry level media job yeah, my moment. Like if you don't have a budget IT doesn't matter how much you're making, correct?

Being able to budget my money and get out of that paycheck to paycheck cycle by making sure I was asking for raises every year, making sure that I picked up a side hustle, I was flipping sneakers at the time.

Are you a sneaker head? Well, yeah, wow, I do not know you were sneaker. And oh yeah, your OK.

I want to move on to Carry lineas question. He has a question about retirement and kind of a two part of question. I'll start with our first part.

First, she's worried about whether there might even be a stable financial market when he is ready to retire. Is that something you think about? Like, should we be worried about the basic stability of our financial system?

This girl said, not only is there an asteroid coming, but there will be a full economic.

Two thousand and eight was a wild time. I think people are. shoot.

listen. No, I really do. I do. I feel for her, and I also feel for, I would say, her generation, our generation, and even the generation, slightly above hours, because we lived through so many unprecedented crisis.

I'm ready for the times to get precedented again.

Yes, absolutely. Like I need to see some of the before times. And I don't have a Crystal ball. What I will tell you though is that if we do have an apocalypse, the folks who do have money are going na be Better off.

We are in an age, words like, we can research so much and find so many things. And IT feels like there are so many sure things, but this, like retirement and the state of the world feels so uncertain. And i'm just wondering, like have you adjust your mindset to that you .

need to enjoy today while also preparing for the future? I think there's two sides of the spectrum, right? Like you've got the folks who are like, no, i'm onna blow all my cash today.

I'm going to go on a shopping spring because who knows if I get to retire in however many years. There's folks on the opposite side of the spectrum that are like i'm a dom day proper basically a and like I need to only think about retirement. I need to protect myself in the future.

I will scrimp and save today. I will have the worst life today so I can have a Better future for these folks. I'm like, what if you never get there? Yeah, like god for bed.

You get hit by a truck tomorrow. What was all that for? So I ask folks to kind of find the ddd of that barbel and say, you are allowed to enjoy your life today.

I promise you, you were not put on this big Green earth to work nine to five to hate your life. That is not your ultimate purpose. You are allowed to have the little treat.

You are allowed to take that trip. You are allowed to go and grab a manicured with a friend. Because IT is fun.

You are allow to have fun. You do not want to have so much fun today at the expensive future. You, because of that and uncertainty factor, you want to be able to have fun today and tomorrow.

I think that existence al part is so important. But I think also the second part of the question is, you know practically what tips do you have for Young people who are thinking about retirement? Like how should they be thinking of IT and what should they may be doing?

I always tell everyone, uh, there is a special yoris B, F, F method. If you want to be rich, A, F, you need to strip and everyone's o did I pick the wrong career? No, strip is an acronym.

S stands for savings. First and foremost, you want to set aside an emergency fund. In particular, I recommend putting your merchants cy fund into a high yield savings account so that your money waiting for that rainy day gets to earn you more interest.

In the meantime, if you are a single ten, three to six months of living expenses is a good bed. If you are had a household, you have dependence. I would say closer to to twelve. This is something you can easily to do by literally just changing where .

your direct .

deposit goes.

Tea is total that a lot of us have dead, and that is not a bad word. IT is just a tool. So with our debt, what I say is ranked from highest to lowest interest rate, make the minimum payment across everything to keep your credit score high, but then any additional funds you have for debt paid down goes towards the interest rate that is the highest up next r retirement.

So take advantage of tax advantaged accounts like a four one k through your job for a three b four five, seven tsp whatever type job. You you can also open up an I array or rough I ra. I array literally stands for individual retirement account.

And then I this is important. It's not enough to just open those accounts. You actually have to invest.

So you take the cash that you're putting into those accounts and you are making investments that makes sense based on your risk profile, target date, retirement funds, index funds often make sense. And last step, this is so critically important. P plan, you don't get to have happily ever after. You don't get to ride off into the sunset if you do not have a plan. So right down, what your goals are, what those milestones are, what you like to accomplish, the amount of money is going to take to get you there and then back into what you need to do to get there.

How do you protect yourself and those investments from another financial crisis? Like you know, I sometimes think like while i'm putting a lot of faith into the stock market.

I think it's really important that your portfolio make sense for how far you are away from retirement. So when you're twenty, yeah, you can be a hundred or ninety percent in the stock market and have zero or ten percent in bonds when you're fifty. IT should look at almost flipped, but IT really depends on how much you're making, how much you already have, any other investments you might be having, any sort of generational windfalls .

you might be expected to come into? What about people who are just getting by? Like how should they prioritize retirement savings if you know you're not dealing with a lot, you know if they are just getting by.

I think first inform as we want to try and maximize that income. That's really important to be asking for that raise every single year. People always bulk. When I say this, you need to be asking for a race summer between ten and fifteen percent every single year. I'm not saying you're getting IT, but if you ask for ten to fifteen and you get eight, that's good because eight is still going to help keep you above the inflation rate.

I think another question that I have is that um retirement and saving in general is often presented as this sacrifice like you know you're going without your fancy grow trees now so that like future you can let go on cruise es and golf and do you know whatever IT is that people do when they retired?

Jack is moving to naples and her said.

I always say, like we're going to turn the retirement home into like a dorm again like they're going to play back that s up in the community .

room we're going to there's .

a pong and OK i'm going be yeah drinking like liman drops on the back of a golf car, getting war the retirement could not that but like how do you do that baLance? You know, how do you have the little treat currently that he likes fancy fetches? And she's like, should I not be buying the fancy fetches because I should be saving? Like how how do you prioritize those things?

I think it's about providing yourself a life that you are happy with today while also thinking about, hey, it's not like you saving for retirement means as money goes in a black hole, you still get to spend IT just later. And in fact, what people need to remember is that like you're not just setting this money aside and then getting that same number back in retirement.

But when you start investing your money in particular for retirement, when it's got a little bit of room and time to grow. That money gets to work really hard for you. And so you might only put in one hundred thousand dollars. One hundred thousand dollars could be a couple million .

dollars in retirement. Carella thinks the advice she's been getting from bombers doesn't .

always make sense for her.

Yeah yeah. Like how is financial planning like four genes, y in particular, different from like the advice like for previous generations, like what are they dealing with and what do they have to kind of navigate differently?

So back to day buying a home was, what? Fifty gram, not to mention the fact that wages have absolutely stagnated while all of these other costs of living have gone up. So what that essentially means is that while we're taking home roughly the same amount, the amount that's going out the door has cropped up and cropped up and cropped up.

And what that really does is that squeeze the middle class back in our parents and grandparents is generation. They were incentivised to state companies for as long as humanely possible because they had something called pensions. And essentially a pension is a four or one k if a four or one k was Better in every single way, when you would work at a company, they would set aside their money for you for retirement and you would be guaranteed to certainly out every single month in your retirement.

The longer you've stated a company, the more they odie every single month after he retired. So people were working at companies twenty, thirty, forty years, not for fat salaries, not for fat bonuses, but for fat pension checks, because they knew the longer they stayed, Better retirement they would have. And they were guaranteed IT pensions, all but disappeared after the four one k rolled out.

And now we need to set money inside. We need to plan, we need to invest. And how are we going to be able to do that most effectively? We need to make for our money. And the easiest way to make more money is to be treat ten the job market like its tender. You've got to be swiped, you got got to be swipe and you got got to be moving into the next thing. There's always somebody hotter and cooler and Better IT sucks to say that I like that is what the job market has become for millennial and sea because the only way we are able to be paid our worth is to job jump. And if you are not learning and earning, if you are not getting promoted in a huge race every two years, you need to go, you need to find somewhere that is going to give you what you need.

I don't know about you, but I do consider myself like, you know, I was forced in the error of the box so bad. I remember graduation, college, earnest, sly, red leaning, I was like, we're gonna get in the money, roll out my sleeves. And I think, the panda, I did a lot for this because during the pandemic I was like, oh, what makes me happy? Like, what parts of life really satisfy me other than work? And how do I prioritize that?

What did ally wong says? She's like a lean. Okay, I, anna.

lie down. Yes, hello. Like I am so tired of girl boss, but there's a part of me that can turn that off. And I do wonder, like, do you ever find a disconnect between millennial agency when IT comes to advice because of that? Because like.

can I say something that will probably just like get .

me cancelled? Yes, always.

I wasn't mad when kim k said, IT, seems like nobody wants to work these days. You you have to surround yourself with people that want to work. I think the way he went about IT is a little out of touch because we don't have the same twenty four hours in a day and SHE certainly has a lot of help.

Oh yeah, I will also say that like there is a different attitude towards work between genes and millennial. I think mEllen's als, like yourself in myself, are we tie a lot of ourself worth to work? No, yes.

There is part of me that is fuelled by the next task. That is fuelled by the next milestone, the next achievement. Where's Jenny? I think they're adopting a much more alternative lifestyle in part because it's like fun and cool, but also in part because they don't see a realistic route for them to get to the two and a half kids go to retrieve, retire, swing, White, pig, offence, house. And because of that, their perception of work as well as like what is like the new Normal is very different.

Yeah up next, we take our findings to CarOlina a and find out if IT changes anything about how he thinks about her future.

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After talking to brian and evan, I called up Pearly know what some findings I wanted to give some answers and also find out what he thinks about their takes on things. Hey, Carol lina, how are .

you good?

And so okay, between now in the last time we talk, have you made any like major financial .

decisions or anything like planning a trip to jo? O nothing in the realm of like responsible choices.

Oh, that sounds fun. And I will say it's clearly all about Vivians retirement .

tip through your job and .

about bryans take on the end of the world.

Do I think the world as we know that will end by the end of twenty one hundred and once, say twenty percent?

I was curious to know what he thought about at all.

How do I feel about the potential end of the world? But I feel Better knowing that the chances are only twenty percent. It's not going great, odd, but it's definitely lower than I thought I would be.

I was pretty sure climate change was gonna push that like, well into the above fifty percent. Like, what I take a medication if I had twenty percent odds of killing me like, no. But like this was something that was out of my control.

And I thought the odd we're going to be like sixty four ten. So suddenly that that's like a three fold reduction. I think that makes me a little bit less anxious. The greater than one thousand dollars i'm about suspend to go to my picture.

You deserve to go to motus.

Yeah so twenty percent of any of the bad thing happening. Okay, so i'll put eighty percent of the money i'm supposed to be putting into .

retire into that is not a terrible plan.

I definitely need to open a high yield. I think after that, i'll probably about I R A. I guess I could care of my car by i'm twenty two so my credit gore really needs those monthly payment more than a the card to be played. I I really appreciate you guys making sense of my like nonsense. Future tumor is anxiety and turning IT into not one, but two cohere and answers.

oh, girl, listen, there is a reason why I, like one of my colleagues, beats is literally do.

i'm sure he, I don't know, meditate a lot or something. Did you activate? He has like an underground bunker or something .

that I did not ask. And I will have to acquire. I will have to acquire if he is like low key prepping and that's why he feels chill about .

ever yeah maybe he's just living because he already has time to fifteen years of can do under his house.

Do you ever think like you'll ever feel comfortable with not the shore thing, like I don't know if I feel like so much of life is uncertain and it's hard to know for sure. And I think especially with people I don't know just being science minded and a little coal, is the not knowing for certain. Is that ever difficult?

I think I would be more thrust about IT if I had dependent of any story, but I don't. The only thing I got got to take care of is myself. I don't know, I don't know. Maybe I keep thinking about getting a cat. Maybe if I got the cat, I would be more than.

I think you should definitely get the cat. I think you should absolutely get the cat.

That's what i've been thinking too.

Get the cat go on the perote trip and you know, also scroll away some coins for seven year old Carina yeah .

i'm sure he will also want fatos and cut. That's IT for this .

episode of explaining to me. Thanks to Caroline ina for the question and Vivian to and brian wolf for the answer. Vivians podcast network and chill is now part of the vox media podcast network and just launched its new season.

Also, I asked bryan to see if you had a bunker like carleen a hypothesize and IT. Turns out he does not. If you have a question, send IT in.

You can email us at ask box at box 点 com， or give us a call at one eight hundred six, one eight, eight, five, four five. You can find that email addressing phone number in our show notes. This episode was produced by Sophia on IT was edited by cafe wells with help from horai just fact checking by millis hersh mixing by Andrea Christian's daughter carla.

Hobby air is our supervising producer, and i'm your host jungle in hill. Before you go, we have one more ask. We obviously couldn't make the show without you, and that's true in more ways than one.

IT takes a lot of work to make just one episode of explaining to mean interviews, scripting, editing, fact checking, sound design and so much more. And we're able to do that because of support from vox members. As a vox member, you'll gain greater access to boxes, award winning news room and have your curiosity Sparked through our new member only benefits.

Please consider becoming a member today. Go to box stock comsat h members to join. Thanks for listening. Hey, soviet andy. I think carel inner made a good point about all the talk of doom being really stressful.

Can we add a little zin moment at the end? Maybe like a little meditation, music, a babbling brook, some birds. Yeah, that's nice.

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