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cover of episode A Brutally Honest Conversation With My CEO Coach - Eric Partaker

A Brutally Honest Conversation With My CEO Coach - Eric Partaker

2024/4/11
logo of podcast Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal

Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal

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Ali Abdaal
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Eric Partaker
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@Ali Abdaal :公司目前面临着如何平衡现有YouTube课程业务(主要收入来源)与新推出的生产力社区(Productivity Lab)的挑战。YouTube课程业务虽然盈利,但Ali认为其可能阻碍公司长期发展目标,即专注于生产力领域。他提出了几种方案,包括免费提供YouTube课程,将资源集中在生产力社区上;或者逐步减少对YouTube课程的投入,将资源转移到新的生产力产品上。他还探讨了如何改进公司内部的沟通和协作,以及如何优化指标体系,以更好地追踪和管理业务发展。 @Eric Partaker :Eric建议Ali不要轻易放弃YouTube课程这个主要收入来源,除非新的生产力产品已经获得验证。他强调了在没有替代方案的情况下放弃主要收入来源的风险。他建议Ali先专注于生产力社区的推广和发展,在获得一定成果后再考虑对YouTube课程进行调整。Eric还分享了一些关于公司战略制定、团队管理和指标体系建设的经验和建议,例如,利用短迭代周期快速测试和学习,简化指标体系,关注关键指标等。他认为,公司可以拥有多个价值阶梯,服务于不同的客户群体,关键在于其是否符合公司使命、是否令人振奋。 Eric Partaker:Eric 强调了公司使命的重要性,即帮助人们建立理想的生活。他认为,YouTube 课程虽然与公司使命相关,但其价值主张与生产力社区有所不同。他建议 Ali 考虑将 YouTube 课程免费提供,作为引流工具,从而更好地服务于公司核心使命。他还建议 Ali 采取更灵活的策略,快速迭代,从实践中学习,而非事先追求完美。他认为,团队压力过大可能源于任务过多,而非产品线复杂。他建议 Ali 利用短迭代周期,快速测试和学习,简化指标体系,关注关键指标,并建立清晰的流程,将创意转化为可执行的计划。

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The discussion revolves around whether to discontinue the high-revenue YouTube courses to focus on the upcoming Productivity Lab, questioning if the former is a distraction from the core goal of enhancing productivity.

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Oh, by the way, before we get into this episode, I would love to tell you a little bit about Life Notes. Now, Life Notes is a weekly-ish email that I send completely for free to my subscribers, and it contains my notes from life. So notes from books that I've read, podcasts I'm listening to, conversations I'm having, and experiences I'm having in work and in life. And around once a week, I write these up and share them in an email with my subscribers. So if you would like to get an email from me that contains the stuff that I'm learning, almost in real time as I'm learning it, you might like to subscribe. There is a link down in the show notes or in the video description.

Okay, so Eric, I was hoping we could start off by just treating this as if we're just doing a coaching session with no cameras present. Cool. And then in round two, which we'll do afterwards, I'll ask you about the backstory and the more normal stuff. So let's say this is the start of a coaching session. How do we normally begin? How do we normally begin? Well, so the...

So the, like the psychographic or the typical person that I work with, um, you included is that they never give themselves enough time or credit for the things that have gone well. Right. So they're immediately just looking at like the gap, the things that haven't,

haven't been done or aren't working out correctly. So as you know, we always anchor first with, well, what's gone well? What can we celebrate over the last two weeks? So yeah, over to you. What's gone well? What are the wins? Professional and personal. Professional and personal. Okay. I always have to look at my calendar for this because I can never quite remember, like, what have I actually done? But if I think of, so yesterday, Angus and I went to Paris for this mastermind hosted by a

a now friend of ours called Robbie. That was amazing. That was about how to scale your business and stuff. So we came away with like dozens of pages of notes and lots of action points, some of which I wanted to discuss with you in the session. Cool. So that's gone very well. Another professional win is that got set up in this new place for a few days, set up the studio, filmed three videos on the filming day a few days ago, which is a very productive filming day because normally we film like one, two, if we manage to film two in a day, it's like, oh, it's a win. We filmed three in a day and it was super fun. And

I'm back in London now, so we're filming in person. So Tintin came over and so it was good kind of in-person vibes. And I guess number three professional win would be we have...

We're making solid progress on productivity lab, our upcoming productivity community type thing. And so we've got like 90, we're 95% of the way there with the sales page. We're making the final tweaks to the offer. And I had lunch earlier today with a lovely lady called Charlotte Crowther, who is helping us with learning design and like curriculum build outs for the course and the community and all of that stuff. Cool. And what about personal? Personal wins. I,

hit the gym two days ago managed to move back to London so that was a big move that sort of went off broadly without a hitch the hitch is that I was meant to be in a different flat but the guy vacating it apparently is hospitalized and so he can't vacate the flat and so the moving company put me up in this place which is actually quite nice for a few days so hopefully the guy should be the guy should be good

And then you're going to be, so you're stationary then for a while. I am stationed in London for a while. Yeah. So until, until August. Pretty cool. Yeah. With a few travels here and there, but like, it's nice to feel a bit more stable in, in my home base for now. And home front, how's things going on the home front? On the home front? As in? Like in terms of celebrations, wins? Yeah.

Oh, like relationships. Yeah. No, that's fine. A few things I'll tell you offline, but yeah. Okay, cool. All right, cool. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, that's how we typically start, right? We anchor in what's good, what's working. And then we get to the fun stuff. So real-time agenda. So what would make this session most useful for you? Challenges, frustrations, issues, things in your mind. Okay. Real-time agenda. So the thing number one would be figuring out our product suite moving forward.

That is like a really big one. Thing number two would be

tweaking the offer for Productivity Lab so that it's a better offer. Thing number three, if we get around to it, is Angus and I had a session this morning talking about metrics and scorecards and stuff and realized, you know, so just more discussions around metrics and scorecards, which we seem to come back to every few weeks. Okay, so suite, offer, metrics. Yes. And suite sort of relates to like broad vision for the company. Yeah.

Okay. Should we start there? Yeah. So essentially yesterday in this mastermind, a big thing that I took away from it was the value of simplicity in a business. And one of the big areas in which we are not very simple is the fact that we have two different value ladders. We have our productivity thing, which is upcoming. And then we have the how to be a YouTuber stuff. So our YouTuber foundations, YouTuber Academy and YouTube Accelerator.

Now, as you know, in like late 2020, we stumbled into making courses about how to be a YouTuber with the Part-Time YouTuber Academy. It was always a bit of a side hustle and it ended up just overtaking the business because it was this massive golden goose that just kept on making so much money and was basically funding the business. And we sort of felt like we couldn't let go of it because it was funding the business. And then we were doing the life cohorts and it was fun for a while. And then we stopped doing the life cohorts and last year we switched them to Evergreen. And then...

Initially, the plan was, okay, we'll switch it to evergreen and we'll not worry about it. But then we thought, you know what? Why don't we add a high ticket 12 month service based offering on top of it? That's like a consulting program, our YouTube accelerator. And so we've been running that for 12 months now. And so we've had like 300 something students go through that. That's $5,000 for the 12 months.

And so now that we're getting renewals coming up, we're like, okay, it's a good chance to revisit the offer because actually it's way too cheap and we're offering way too much stuff and we're just throwing the kitchen sink at them and just giving them everything. But actually giving them everything is making them overwhelmed rather than actually necessarily serving them because there are really a few things that really serve them. And so a lot of resources are going into this accelerator offering where we've got these 300 students, we've got client success director, client success managers, multiple student supporters giving feedback, lots of freelance management. Yeah.

We're switching everything to HubSpot, so we've got a nice CRM for it. There's a lot of team resources that are going into the accelerator. And that's the 5K higher end. That's the 5K higher end. We were thinking of changing the offer so that it's 5K for six months, so it's a bit more accelerated as an accelerator. Accelerated accelerator. Yes, indeed. But one of the questions that came up in the mastermind yesterday was, if the goal for the next two years is to get to $10 million in revenue and then beyond,

And I don't think the vehicle of courses and programs helping people be YouTubers is going to get us there. I wonder if it's a distraction from our true goal, which is to really just triple down on the productivity stuff and expand productivity. Why do you say that's the true goal? Because I don't see myself a few years from now continuing to do videos about how to be a YouTuber.

But I do see myself continuing to do content and workshops and events in the community and software around being more productive in all areas of work and life. But the, okay, so the question is, so what's the, as a newspaper headline, what's the question then? The question is, should we kill the golden goose? And when you put it that way, what?

What answer do you get to? The answer I get to is it would be pretty exciting to kill the golden goose. I also get to an option of maybe we don't have to kill the golden goose. Maybe we can just allow it to slowly die off over time and not worry too much about it. Another answer that I get to is we shouldn't kill the golden goose because it's funding the business right now and we should be a bit more risk-averse and maybe see how the productivity stuff does before we kill the golden goose of the YouTube value ladder.

Because the productivity stuff isn't earning any money right now. Zero, yeah. We haven't even launched the product yet. So can I just say, I think it's just absolutely nuts to think of killing your main revenue stream, right, from a product point of view without like the next product proven. Yeah. I mean, there's that whole necessity is the mother of invention, right? So you put your backup, you know, against the wall or like leap and the net will appear, you know, all that sort of stuff.

But I think it's like a much wiser move to at least get some traction on the productivity stuff and the offer before you kill that. And then the other thing that comes to mind is, are you sure you even want to kill it? I mean, I personally went through, you know, that's how we initially connected. So I went through your programs. Yeah.

And what's the overall mission of the company? To help people build a life they love. Okay, so... Through inspiring educational content. Yeah. And products. So give a man a fish versus teach a man a fish. You know, how to fish. I mean, that's what I see the YouTube...

you know, Academy, you know, or the YouTuber suite, um, you know, doing is that you're furthering your mission by helping other people also join in your mission. Cause anybody who's going to start a YouTube channel is going to be doing that to help educate and teach other people as well. Um,

So, yeah, I mean, what is just pause for a moment? Like, how does that resonate with you in terms of, you know, does this truly fit or not fit with your mission? So when I say kill the YouTuber suite, what I mean is we stop doing the accelerator as a very high touch support based offering. We keep the academy running, but we potentially either take the entire course and just give it for free as part of productivity lab.

If you sign up to Productivity Lab, it's whatever the price is going to be, probably $1,000 a year. And you also get a free course, the YouTuber Academy, which previously we sold for $1,000. That really massively boosts the value of that offer. And or just putting the entirety of the YouTuber Academy course on YouTube for free. Because one of my theses about the world is that information is no longer a moat and you

Every, like, you know, each week we get a few dozen sales of the YouTuber Academy. And each week we get one or two people out of those like 30 or 40 who buy it who say, I want a refund because there's nothing new here. And we do say to them up front, look, there's nothing new here. We're just packing it all in one place. But like, increasingly, the stuff that we were teaching in our YouTuber course three years ago was fairly novel. Like no one knew, oh my God, importance of titles and thumbnails, like ID generation systems. Wow.

But now that stuff has become more mainstream in the world of YouTubers. People are making free YouTube videos about it. So why are we continuing to charge for what is at the end of the day, just information when we could

further the moat around our YouTube channel by just putting the world's best YouTuber course for free on YouTube for anyone to follow. And if they want the implementation, i.e. they want a community to help them take action and stuff, they can just sign up to Productivity Lab, which is our membership thing. That would be my version of sort of killing the golden goose. Put it for free on YouTube and use it as lead gen for Productivity Lab. And then Productivity Lab becomes like the one product that we sell

That's hopefully recurring revenue where any future course that we make is just free, free, free, freely available as part of productivity lab. It becomes our sort of all access pass our sort of masterclass.

You just buy the subscription, cool. It gives you the implementation, it gives you the support, and it gives you all of this content that you wouldn't have otherwise had access to. And so the hypothesis there is that somebody who buys a Productivity Lab course also is going to see value in the YouTuber stuff. Yes. Not everyone, but the hypothesis is that someone who buys...

The hypothesis is that if we continue to try to charge for self-paced informational courses, we will end up falling behind. And if we were to view our information as always being free, but the way we make money is through implementation, support, accountability, stuff, software, that I think would take us a lot further along our mission of doing, our goal of doing tens of millions in revenue, rather than continuing to charge for information.

And the, okay, so with the YouTube product suite, you have the accelerator for 5K. And then the self-serve is how much? $1,000. And so it's the self-serve only that you're thinking about putting into product? Yeah, I mean, so the accelerator is basically the self-serve. Plus you get a one-on-one account manager. You get office hours with the team. You get like video feedback on your videos. Yeah. And so there's a high service-based requirement from our customer success team for the accelerator.

And so in this world where we were to not do that, we would put all the resources into productivity lab to make the community and the client success for productivity lab, just world-class. And then if we wanted to, we could in the future make a sort of a next level up product. One of the things from this, from this mastermind, one of the, one of the ideas was life, but your business becomes a lot simpler when your value ladder is, is

the same thing, but just with different levels of support. Yeah. So either you saw like one ladder, one, one ladder, multiple levels of support. So the free videos are helping people be more productive. The lab is helping people be more productive, but they're part of community and they have accountability. Maybe we do a one-on-one coaching accountability coaching thing, which is helping people be more productive, but they get a one-on-one coach. Maybe we have a mastermind, which is having people be more productive, but they get access to me. It's like you escalate the levels of access and the levels of support, but you keep the value prop the same. Hmm.

And the issue with the YouTube accelerator is that the value prop is so radically different. It's such a side quest. We help you grow your YouTube channel rather than it being the main thing, which is about helping you do more of what matters to you. And for some people, that'll be a YouTube channel, but for 90% of our audience, it won't. Yeah. And what about going the other way where you take the accelerator and charge even more for that and make it even more?

you know, higher end and it helps you get to your 10 million goal even more quickly.

Yeah, so we want to probably do a mastermind type offer probably next year, which might be at the 24K price point or the 36K price point, which would be like basically only aimed at entrepreneurs because no one else would pay that much for a mastermind. And that would have like twice a month I would do a coaching call. Every quarter we'd do like an in-person retreat. That would be that thing where we share all of our business stuff, mostly aimed at entrepreneurs, I think. Yeah.

That to me sounds interesting. So like the most interesting thing from what we've discussed so far, and like also thinking about some of our past conversations, if, what if the YouTuber stuff was repositioned? So it was more about how to help the online entrepreneur build their personal brand, you know, build their creator business. And YouTube is like one channel that they have to master, but also, you know,

you know, an entrepreneur or a creator led business, you know, they operate in a really structureless environment. So it's really, really important that, um, they make the best use of their time. They navigate, you know, their day well, and then that's like, you know, the whole productivity side of things and getting that into the picture. So I think you can actually definitely combine those two for the mastermind piece. Um, but I don't,

I'm a little bit hesitant about the idea of just like killing things though right now until you have something proven with the productivity stuff. Because we don't have any, we don't have any sales, right? So I wouldn't, yeah, my two cents is like, I wouldn't screw around with all that too much until we,

see what are people willing to pay for productivity wise and we get some feedback from them. I'm not a hundred percent convinced that if you think about this in a Venn diagram, that the people who sign up for the productivity are going to feel a tremendous amount of value with having the YouTube stuff, you know, in there as well, because I don't know if the overlapping circles are big enough. Right. But, um, definitely if we're trying to provide

develop your personal brand as an online entrepreneur or creator, all of that stuff then seems to fit in the ecosystem, right? So you've got to have your YouTube presence, you've got to have your productivity presence. Yeah, that's my two cents. Yeah, nice. That's probably the most sensible way of doing it. One of the... Just to wrap that up, so what exactly were you...

thinking of doing or not doing? So these were the options that we were playing around with. One option was

this option of like okay let's launch productivity lab let's see how it goes and then we can always we reserve the option to do whatever we want to the youtuber stuff further down the line but let's not kill anything right now we've already paused sales for the accelerator while we revamp that offer and streamline our systems on the back end and stuff so it's not like we're worried about getting new people in through the door for the accelerator when we made that decision last week

And the Academy continues to sell and people continue to continue to like it. And so it's like a good product that's just like objectively doing pretty well. And so what we can do is, so option A is we just launch productivity lab, keep the Academy accelerator ticking along, keep servicing our clients that we already have for the accelerator until they see out the 12 month program. And then we decide.

The other thing we were considering is at the moment, Alison and Bhav on our client success team are spending a lot of their time revamping the backend for the accelerator to change up the offer and to make sure the fulfillment is all streamlined. And we've just switched everything over to HubSpot to make sure the CRM is all connected. And there's a lot of work being done on the backend to make the accelerator really good for when we relaunch it. But if the plan is not to relaunch the accelerator, maybe given that Productivity Lab is coming out in a month,

all of that effort that we're putting into team time that's going into making the accelerator better, we could just hold, press pause on that. An accelerator is fine for now. People are getting results. People are giving good reviews. Very few people are asking for a refund. So let's not try and make that product better until we know what we're doing with it. And let's divert that attention towards making Productivity Lab as good as it can possibly be in the next month or two before, like, while it launches. And then we decide, we have that call option on the accelerators. We can be like, okay, cool. That's not working as well as we thought it would.

Let's just go back to what we were doing before and relaunch the accelerator. Yeah. See, I think the thing, though, that's missing here is like even the way that we're talking or thinking about it, it's like let's make Predictivity Lab as good as it can possibly be. I don't think that's the objective. I think it's more let's learn as much as possible about what Predictivity Lab should be. Ooh, nice. And because we don't really know yet, right? So...

We definitely know that the people who are gonna sign up for this exist, they're there, they're within your audience. And so if you think about it more from like a traditional like product management point of view, it's like, okay, let's assemble that audience. We create this initial glue around Predictivity Lab. But again, we don't know what the offer is. We don't know what their pain points or the interests are. We don't know how that might change once the group starts coming together. But if instead the objective was,

we're going to fast fail, you know, learn as much as we can, then I think that will help us both get Predictivity Lab to the second point of this conversation, which is like, what is the offer? And then maybe provide insight on what to do or not to do in terms of the YouTuber stuff, whether to merge that, to what degree to merge it or include it or, you know, or not. Yeah, that's a good way of thinking about it.

Like that's how I'm thinking about it with the, you know, the stuff that I'm doing. Right. So, you know, my audience isn't nearly as big as yours, but, you know, there's nearly a half million on LinkedIn newsletter is about 145,000 now. And, um, you know, my chief product officer, she started, uh, last week and we're, we're, we're going to discover exactly, you know, what the offer should be by spending a lot of time, you know, with,

that audience figure out what are the natural segments within there, which will then inform product suite as well and potentially different value letters. And what are their pain points and the things that they want to learn and all of that sort of stuff. This episode of Deep Dive is very kindly sponsored by YNAB, which stands for You Need a Budget. Now, for many people, money is a cause of guilt and anxiety. You're never entirely sure where all your money goes, and you're left feeling guilty about purchases, big or small. Money is often associated with restriction, fear, and uncertainty.

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we know what we want to build. Yeah. Let's just do it. Versus like, yeah. Yeah. Steve, Steve, nobody said to, you know, like, um, uh, Henry Ford, I know, was it, um, what's the quote? If I were to ask people what they wanted, they would have told me a faster horse. Um, yeah, there is definitely that. Um,

And that is an intuitive felt sense sort of thing. Nobody told Steve Jobs that they wanted the iPhone. He's like, oh, okay, it's so perfect that you wanted that because here it is. Yeah, so this is the dilemma that we've been in for a few months where... But I think the key thing though here is I think so much, because you're in the zero to one strategy formulation stage where strategy is figured out

It's less about trying to get it right beforehand and it's more about organically discovering it after you get moving. And I think once you get moving with Productivity Lab, and again, you get people in, you will get more insights. You don't have to interpret that as,

Oh, and so I'm just going to insights in terms of everyone's going to tell me what they want. No, you might come up with your own, you know, model T Ford or Apple iPhone ideas, but it's going to still be organically informed by what you're learning along the way. Yeah. I just don't think you're going to get it right, right from the outset. That's a good point. So.

What we found with the accelerator, so we did this approach. We were like, you know, let's sell people into this 5K 12-month offering and let's take our best guess of what we think would be valuable. And then we got 250 people in and we realized fairly quickly that like, okay,

All of this stuff is good, but people are using things A and B more than things C and D. And things C and D are costing us a lot of team time. And we didn't quite appreciate the level of, like, damn, we're giving them a lot for very small amounts of money in the grand scheme of things. But we felt we were tied into a 12-month offering where it felt like, ah, to be good to our students, we don't want to just take things away. We want to see through their package and stuff. And so...

The strategy, the fact that we sold a 12-month program felt like it stopped us from feeling like we could make changes to the program as quickly as we would have liked to because then we've taken people's money and then they get pissed off and there's a risk that they get pissed off and our core thing is to put our students first.

As I say this, one solution is that we just do a one month offering. One solution is that we say when they sign up, hey, look, this is a beta. We're going to be changing things up. That's what I was going to say. If you feel like getting a refund at any point, just ask us and we'll give you a refund at any point. Like that kind of thing. I think if you're just transparent and you say we're not 100% sure about what this should be or shouldn't be. We have this initial starting point. And part of this is going to be us learning and hearing from you and seeing what works and what doesn't work. And yeah.

And it will like naturally, you know, evolve because there's things that will be scalable and there's things that won't be scalable. And we just don't know what those things are just yet. So, yeah. So I also too just want to challenge...

So I get what you're saying about the single value ladder and keeping things simple and all of that. You know, we made the reference to Apple. I mean, I don't think, does Apple have a single value ladder? So, and it's very easy, I think anyone can communicate almost any idea in a way that can make someone else go, that's it. That's the idea. We should do that.

And you always have the freedom to reserve your own judgment. And I don't think there's any reason why you can't have, you know, different value ladders. I think it just comes down to, does it serve your mission? Do you enjoy it? Does, do you find it energizing? If you don't find it energizing, does that mean that you should stop doing it? Not necessarily. Are there other people on the team who would find it energizing? Can we change up, you know, responsibilities and flows and all of that? Personally, you know, I think,

helping people create their YouTube channels, even if you just kept doing that and you didn't wrap it into like, you know, be a creator thing, personal brand. I personally do think it serves your mission. I think you do it super well. I think it's a compelling offer. Is it the same offer that's going to last forever? And will it not require any change? Of course not. But you're going to always evolve anything that you do over time.

So, you know, again, I'll use myself as an example, right? So, you know, when I'm working with CEOs or, you know, helping coach, I mean, you'll know this from the very first time we started working together. I always say, you know, the business is the hardware. And if you want to get the hardware to operate correctly, you need to code the software correctly. And the software is two other pillars to scale and parallel to the business, you know, your leadership and then the self, right?

And those also could become different value ladders, right? So it's like I could have a low, mid and high point to help someone scale a business, help someone who is not an entrepreneur, but is just working in a leadership position to scale as a leader. And then the peak performance program that I do, that's almost like that's completely stripped out as well. And that's its own value ladder too, right? So

I don't see issue with having these different things. And to me, it just builds out

from my point of view for myself, it's just building out a more robust, you know, like product portfolio with different entry points, you know, for different people, depending on what they need. Okay. So as you were saying that I was thinking, ah, okay. Yeah. I think the reason why I was, I latched onto the idea of simplification so much is because our team seems to constantly complain that they're overwhelmed and like our

I can't believe we're launching this productivity thing while we're also trying to do the accelerator thing at the same time and everyone's over capacity and customer success always has fires happening in it and it never feels it always feels as if like there's this sort of frantic energy of like building the cruise ship as we're already at sea and also selling tickets for it for people to get helicoptered onto the cruise ship that we're sort of assembling as we go along but that doesn't necessarily mean that you need to kill things that could just be a sequencing issue you know it's like okay well um

Where are things good enough for now? Because you can't constantly develop and improve everything at once at all times, right? So where are things good enough for now? Let that stay. It's good enough. And, you know, there's a great question from, I think it was from this book called The Four Disciplines of Execution. And I think the question is, yeah.

You look at all the things that you could do with the business and you ask yourself the question, okay, if everything were to stay as it is. Yep. So there's still continuous improvement, but let's for argument's sake say it's like things are improving at like 4%. Yep. You know, I think that's from like the Steve Collar thing. Where's the one area? So if everything were to stay as it is, where's the one area where change would have the greatest impact? Nice. And that helps focus your attention on

You know, cause it, it isn't. So the team feeling overwhelmed will be probably, well, there's many reasons for this, but one could be, it feels like we're doing anything and everything. Right. So that can create overwhelm. Um, but I mean, let's just ask the question right now. So, um,

And it needs to be rooted in direction, right? So it's like, what's the goal right now? What's the goal? Where are we trying to get to? Primary goal is durable recurring revenue that doesn't rely on me continuing to do stuff. Yeah. What's the number? The number is $10 million by end of next year. And where are we now? We did like five and a bit million dollars last year. Okay. So if everything were to stay as it is with that A to B journey from five to 10 in mind, yeah.

what's the one area where change would have the greatest impact? Productivity lab, because we would be going from zero to one in that and then we'd be adding a new product. That would hopefully help us go from five to ten. And just to challenge the thinking, why wouldn't it be changing price points or something with the YouTube side of things? There is only so much we can improve conversion rates and change prices before the bottleneck becomes a lead gen.

Now, the solution to lead gen is either to pay lots of money on ads or for me to make more videos about growing on YouTube. And I do not want to make very many more YouTube videos about growing on YouTube. Have you done the How to Grow a YouTube Channel in 2024 yet? Of course. We've done that same video about three times. Yeah, but did you do it for March?

Yeah, we actually did. We haven't done it for April yet. April. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, clearly you're super excited about the productivity stuff and it is what you're known for, right? And it is how you positioned yourself. And with the, I'm looking for a copy of the book and with feel good productivity. Yeah, we can hold it up in case anyone. And with this book here, 15%.

Feel good productivity. Yeah. I mean, it fits. It makes sense. So, you know, maybe the team's right then, you know, and maybe what you were saying earlier about me, maybe we shouldn't be trying to improve the accelerator or, you know, add any more to it right now. I just keep it as it is for the moment.

Um, you know, a company can, especially, well, a company of this size, right. You can, you can do one major move at a time, you know, like major, I mean like, you know, significant overhaul of something and, and this feels like it's it. Um, but I would do that move and don't like take a machine gun to your golden goose at the same time, you know? Um,

Because that's working. Yeah. And it is consistent with your mission. And let's just learn from productivity lab. The goal is to learn, not to earn. Yeah. Learn for, yeah. That's actually a brilliant way to look at it. So we got earn and learn. Yeah.

Don't kill earn while we're trying to learn. So let that continue earning and we start learning and then we'll figure out to what degree do those Venn diagrams overlap? And is it actually going to entice, you know, you know, having the YouTube stuff, um,

And I just don't think that those are, I'd be glad to be proven wrong because I don't care. I'm just passionate about like, you know, it's just hypothesis driven, right? I just think the overlap is, I think it's just a different person. I think if you bundle that up, like we were talking about earlier, where it's like creator thing. Yeah. And then it's like, yeah, we have to maximize productivity and the YouTube and the business and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Then that's, that's different, but that's not how it is right now. Right. I think, oh, here's another way to look at it.

I think there's a much higher probability the YouTuber people would also want to benefit from the productivity stuff than the assumption of the productivity. Exactly. Yeah, so what we were thinking is if we do continue the accelerator, we would bundle in productivity a lot with it because it'll just help them take action on the stuff. Totally. And then it's like,

It's not quite the accelerator helps you as an individual be more productive, but hey, if you as an individual are an entrepreneur or solopreneur or a YouTuber and you want long form video to help with anything in your life, great. We've got this thing. And sure, it's true that maybe only 5% of people in the broad audience care about that, but that 5% is big enough to have another solid business asset built on the back of it.

I like this question. If everything were to stay as it is, where's the one area? Because I think often we have a tendency to, I have a tendency to think, let's improve. We. The royal we. Let's just improve everything all at once.

Because I'll go to a mastermind or I'll speak to someone or have lunch with someone and be like, oh, I've come away with 18 pages of notes. And here are all the action points for all of the 18 different areas of the business. Let's go, everyone. Don't you think I've not seen this? Like, how long have we been working together now? Like, it must be close to two years or something. And it's like, I know when you've been to an event or something. Yeah. Because you're like, ah, I've got to do all this stuff.

And then what happens? It's like so formulaic. It's like, Ben, it's like, I can tell you what happens. Then sure enough, I'll meet with Angus and then Angus will be like, oh, he's getting involved with so much stuff right now. And then we hear like the team's like getting stressed because there's too many things going on. And it's like, yep. Yeah.

Okay. So how do we do it? So what do we do? So when I come back from an event and I have all these ideas, what should our system be for? We talked about this two weeks ago. Yeah. I mean, so we, we have the idea. I didn't like for the, for the sake of the podcast. Uh,

Because I imagine if someone's gotten to this point, they're probably an entrepreneur because maybe normal people won't listen to this. I mean, the setup that you and Angus have, which is like brilliant, is you get to do the visionary stuff and stay in your creative zone, right? And then Angus is running the business and kind of making sure that the wheels don't fall off. Yeah.

It doesn't help though, if you come back from an event and if you actively go around the car and rip the wheels off. And then you're like, "What do you think about that?" So to prevent that from happening... And for this, Angus was at the event as well. And he was in the wheel ripping mode afterwards as well. I think Angus now empathizes with Mike after every event.

Right, Angus was the one who suggested, you know, is the accelerator really serving us? And I was like, Angus, wow, what a good question to ask. So I think you need to take all these ideas and you put them in an idea repository, or I think we call it Idea Island. Yeah, we have a little Notion page. Yeah, because we're operating, we're doing, what, six-week, five-week sprints, one-week break, right? Yeah.

So the thing that you have to keep in mind is like the sprint cycles are short. It's the longest you would have to wait to implement a potentially new idea or to consider its implementation amongst all the other things is six weeks if you happen to come up with that idea right at the start of a sprint. So it's like it's not that, you know, and if it's truly something like, oh, my gosh, if we don't implement this right now, the company is going to implode. That's totally different. Yeah.

But there's ideas in there about it. No, they're not that. It's very rarely an ER situation. But if it is, again, you don't even have to think about it. It doesn't apply. And that's why if we have better rhythms with our sprint times where it's like, okay, at the end of a sprint...

um, we're reviewing progress, what went well with the company, what didn't, what are the, any continuity goals related to that current set of, you know, sprints, uh, the current, you know, current sprint. And then what are all the ideas in the repository? And then looking at those two groupings together in service of where we're trying to get to in the next year, you know, I think that will spit out what to do and you know, what, what not to do. Yeah.

Um, because other, otherwise you will, um, you'll drive everyone nuts. Right. Um, and, and you drive yourself nuts too, right? Cause it's like, you want it to all change and then it's not changing, but, um, it can change. It's just that we need to kind of like, we, we have to have system process and structure, um, you know, for it to,

Nice. Because otherwise the train comes off the track. Yeah. And when the train comes off the track, you miss stops. People get hurt. Yeah. One of the things I was thinking about as we were contemplating taking a machete to the goose was that... This poor goose. So far it's ridden with bullet holes. And stab wounds. Yeah.

Everything. It's like, yeah, I was thinking while taking, well, while we were thinking of taking a machete to the goose that this is that classic thing of we are putting at risk the thing that's making us 3 million for the sake of a thing that might make us 10 million.

like that's just a dumb thing to yeah i i actually don't so if i had a bet and again i like i'm dispassionate about this but you know so i'm happy to be proven wrong i think to get to the 10 it's going to just be a blended product portfolio i don't think yeah it's a single product wouldn't i don't think so my bet is that won't be that

Because I just think they're different people. Yeah. I think, and that's okay. That's okay to have different segments within your audience and different value ladders for each segment. I think what's not okay is everybody get into one segment and you have to get onto this value ladder. And that's like, that might not be the,

Yeah. I guess it's, I was watching an episode of Espresso Hour, which is Dickie Bush and Nicholas Cole's podcast. Every week they just talk about like what they've learned in the business. And one of the things they were talking about is there's, there's, there are sort of two schools of thought broadly on the spectrum. One is simple scales, fancy fails. The more simple you can make everything, the more streamlined, the better. And the other school of thought is

As a business grows, it takes on more operational complexity. The more operational complexity you can handle, the bigger your business is able to grow. Because Apple, for example, is very operationally complex. It's not a simple company at all, obviously. And so for us to service the YouTuber clients and stuff requires a lot of operational complexity in that it requires us to build a sales system, a CRM system, a customer service system, all of that stuff, which we have now built and are improving.

It's only complex if you don't have enough people in systems to handle the complexity. If you have the right people in the systems, and you just said it yourself, it's like, this is not a complex business if you compare it to Apple or Google. So if they can manage incredible levels of complexity, we're not even like a franchise.

Yeah, how hard can it be? It's just having the right people and systems. That's how you scale. And ultimately, to me, even a further distillation on that point is like, it just comes down to the people. Because having the right people will help you come up with the right systems. So we could be...

what's happening right now might be indicative of you know a future where um because i know how we're currently structured right it's you know commercial team you know content teams but you know maybe that also then differs by yeah oh well you are in the you know you're working on the mac and then these people are iphone people yeah you know yeah because i guess yeah this is where

This is where a bunch of things have stemmed from, where it's like, well, we've got a department called customer success. And therefore, that customer success department should be in charge of customer success for the productivity thing as well. Oh, they're overwhelmed because now they're doing too many things. And I did say at one point, what if we just had different people for customer success for productivity?

And then we were like, oh, no, that doesn't make sense because we've got a customer success department. So they should just do customer success for everything in the business rather than separating it out by product. Which could also work. Yeah, I mean, that can work, right? Because you can have these matrix organizations, right, where it's like you have pillars by product, but then we have cross-functional support with customers.

departments like, you know, HR, finance, you know, customer success. So it's not to say that that can't work. That's probably, it's probably just more that those individuals at the moment, just that their plates are full. And either we need to change, you know, the way work is being distributed at other team members, you know, maybe there's more automation that can be done. I don't know what, what the auto, the level of automation is on customer success, but yeah.

You know, or, you know, do we need to revamp FAQ or install an AI chatbot that, you know, can answer a lot of queries, you know, for us, you know, that sort of stuff. Nice. Yeah. One of the challenges, I guess, yeah, if I think about it, one of the things that gives me this sense of like, we need to go, we need to make this happen right now.

is the fact that it's the start of the year and our revenue count has reset to zero and our expenses are up at two and a half million. So it's like, hmm, okay, we know we have two and a half million worth of expenses and we know we currently have basically zero revenue. And we know that we don't have, we actually don't have any true sources of recurring revenue. We have somewhat pseudo recurring revenue in the sense that we can sort of predict what AdSense will be and sort of predict what sponsors will be.

But we don't know what the renewal rates on the accelerator are going to be. We don't know if the YouTube Academy is going to continue to sell at the rate that it's currently doing. And therefore, we know that we need this new product. And therefore, we also know that don't mess with the existing products. Therefore, let's get this new product on sooner rather than later so we can learn fast and test fast. But that requires, oh, and in order to get it out, it requires A, B, C, D, and E to happen.

While all this other stuff's going on and then people are overwhelmed because ABCD&E is actually quite a lot of stuff. Does that make sense? Yeah. But every sprint is a container and all it is is a bucket of activities that need to be distributed across the containers. And I don't see how... Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you know, the team will have a capacity. Yeah. And the culture you've created is such that if people feel that they're being stretched in an unhealthy way, you want them to raise their hand as quickly as possible. Yeah. And that's happening. So it's like, in some respects, the culture that you've created is working. Yeah. Right. So it's like the two-way communications happening. It's like, okay. You know, it's this...

The key is healthy pressure. You do need to have pressure. We all need pressure. Everyone needs support and accountability. Because my theory is people will naturally just take the path of least resistance. We're like water, right? So it feels like you have the pressure. It feels like it's starting to... Some of the seams are showing signs of bursting here or there. So you're probably...

So we're patching them to be like, oh, we don't have a project management system. Great. Let's do that. And those little bursts, for whatever reason that they're happening, they then also inform candidates for other objectives in the next sprint cycle. So, oh, yeah, well, that happened. Okay, we need to think about how we allocate workload. Okay, or that happened. We need a better process for that.

One of the things that we do at the moment is that every team member has a quest to do every sprint. So a project that's going to move the needle for their area of the business over five weeks. One of the learnings that we kind of realized last time is by thinking on the level of an individual, we actually end up like the accelerator customer success people are thinking, cool, what's my quest going to be for accelerator customer success? The ops person is thinking, what's my quest going to be just for ops? The marketing person thinking, what's my quest just for marketing? And

rather than us thinking, what are the one, two or three main things the company needs to move forward in the next like six weeks? And who cares if some people don't have a quest? They'll be delighted because it's like, oh, I can chill. I can actually just do my job rather than have this big thing every single six weeks. Well, I think the way to handle that so that everything still feels like it fits together is every sprint is,

should use that question, you know, if everything were to stay the same, where's the one area where change would have the greatest impact, um, to come up with like the overall theme, right. Um, defining like, you know, theme for the sprint and then, um, and that, and that should probably be like, you know, one thing, and it might have a few components to it, but it's like one main, main thing. Hmm.

And then the teams or the individuals, the departments, however you want to talk about it, they think in two different lenses. So one is, what can we do as a team, which is in service of hitting that objective? And they may or may not have something in a given sprint. But what we're or or and or what should we be doing this sprint, which leads to the continuous improvement of our business function?

And in that respect, every group always has something of significance because they're either directly contributing to that which is most important in the sprint and or continuously improving from a Kaizen point of view, right? Their business function. And some departments will find that they tend towards, say, just the continuous improvement stuff more so than others. So as an example,

Finance, right? So finance is an absolutely critical function, but they might not have anything that feels like it directly relates to the theme of the sprint. But yet we need to upgrade the accounting software or install a new invoicing system or something, right? So yeah, I think that's good. That's a very good way of thinking about it. Yeah.

Yeah, that would solve a lot of problems. If we had a theme for the sprint, as an individual, as a department, you either contribute towards that theme, or if you have nothing to contribute, that's fine. You can improve your area. Yeah. But you're, oh, you know, it's... It's one or the other. No, no, no. It's and or. Oh, sure. Yeah. So you could do both. Yeah. Exactly. So...

Yeah. And if I'm just speaking in like more traditional, like company sense, like marketing. So a lot of times goals will relate to like, you know, growth and sales and stuff like that, like obvious things. So like sales and marketing typically have like,

often goals that directly relate to say what the sprint focus is. But they also too might need to do something from just a purely continuous improvement point of view. Yeah. It's like the business is a series of systems that are strung together and each system contributes to the theme of the sprint or, and, or improve itself. Yeah. Take it to the physical body. It's like, if I'm telling my physical body, we're going to sprint right now.

Well, the legs are directly involved. The lungs are directly involved. But it's not like, I don't know, my eyes go, no, just shut off. Because they still need to stay on. They still need to do stuff. Yeah, the metaphor that came to mind was around a car having different components. And each cycle, you can...

yeah choose to upgrade your component in some way or another if you're playing like a video game being like oh cool i've got enough capacity to upgrade the engine great let's do that or actually i want to i want to use my capacity on upgrading the wheels instead you know that kind of thing yeah all while recognizing that okay but who's putting just the fuel on the tank yeah and who's like just driving the car so she keeps going a straight straight line making our steering system and our dashboards are yeah legit

And yeah, so this morning we had, Angus and I had a chat about like numbers and metrics and stuff. And we're like, great dashboards, cool. Do we need to upgrade our dashboard kind of thing? And either that, I guess either it is a task which can just be done in one sitting or it is a project that takes more than one sitting to do. And therefore it goes into a project management system. In fact, even as a task, it should go into a project management system of some sort. I think that's what we're realizing that

I think in the past, we tried to have like a centralized, everyone put their tasks in Notion and it was cumbersome and no one did it and no one ticked things off. But now we've realized, oh, especially because Notion project management is now like a thing built into Notion. Oh, you can have sprints, you can have projects and you can have tasks.

"Damn, that's useful. Let's just have a list of all the projects everyone's working on." And great. Have the discipline to put tasks in there and assign them. I have Angus just installed a system this morning that any task overdue every day just automatically gets pinged into Slack. Everyone can see, "Oh, my tasks are overdue. I haven't ticked them off." And now

immediately just in the last week we've just we've installed project management as a system in our company and it's like oh we have much more clarity on all the things and and with metrics too um because i know you guys have talked at length and several times you know about like well what are the metrics that we should be looking at um what if we just flipped it around like what if you're just over complicating it like what if the business is growing and

You have a dashboard and yeah, there's a lot of things on there and some of the metrics are more important than others, but like it's working. Yeah. You know, and is it perfect? No, but is it 80, 20, 20% of the mental effort that you could spend on like metrics for 80% of the result? I mean, do you collect enough metrics and have enough visibility on them that you can avert disaster? Yeah.

you know, is it a, what's the answer? Uh, broadly? Yes. There are a few key ones we realized we weren't collecting until we started collecting those. Okay. But you're collecting them now. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, and you know, you have the, um, the HubSpot work and all of this, which is going to give you more transparency in terms of,

you know, being able to do correct attribution by marketing channel. And then what is the lifetime value of those people look like as they come to the funnel. So that's going to like birth a whole new level of transparency and metrics that we don't even know fully yet, but when we start to see them and they appear, we'll start to recognize some are more important than others. And, you know, if I look at, you know, again, just to keep things simple,

You know, when I think about my, you know, you know, my, my, my business, you know, with LinkedIn, I just, I just look at the follower count and I know people say, oh yeah, it's, you know, it's not about, uh, no, it is because, um, yeah, if you're just collecting, you know, random, you know, followers that are, but, but if you're producing high quality content and you're just staying true to that, um,

The growth in the follower number is the North Star metric because it's one thing to say I like something. It's another to say I subscribe to your thinking and I want to see it regularly. And then the other thing that I look at is I look out in the calendar to see are there enough upcoming CEO potential clients that are booking calls.

And other than that, keep an eye on like monthly cash flow. And every time we do a launch, you know, are the sales tracking as we had expected and are they growing? And it's like, good enough. But with metrics, what is it that you feel...

So what was your original, because earlier you brought up, yeah, we've talked about metrics again and we're not sure and sort of thing. So like, what's the question? What's the uncertainty? Ah, okay. Yeah. So the uncertainty is there is a long list of metrics that, given our level of complexity, I find useful to see so that I can get a read of how effective is each different part of the business.

So converting those into, okay, but like, what are the top five or the top 10 is...

trickier because while while we're building certain aspects of the business like the marketing engine the sales engine the customer success like in the content side i need like three or four metrics i i trust content team is doing what they want we've been doing this for seven years we know our shit when it comes to content when it comes to the commercial side of the business there's like 24 metrics that like paint the whole picture and i kind of want to see all of them because they all paint the picture of different steps along that that along the funnel which allow me to see like

Hang on, our conversion rate's only 0.6%. Like I know the industry average is at least 1%.

What would happen if we could just double our conversion rate? We'd literally double our effort. Shit, let's do that. You know, that kind of thing. Or like, why do we have all these emails coming in from customer support? 300 a week seems a bit bizarre. Like, what's going on there? And I ask those questions, but other people in the team don't seem to ask those questions. And so for me, it's like the list of metrics I care about is actually getting longer and longer because of all the new stuff that's happening in customers on the commercial side. And trying to distill it down to like, okay, but if I had to pick three, what would I pick? And it's like,

But maybe back to an earlier part of the conversation, maybe it's because we're in the learning phase here. And so it's like an area of the business that you want to go more deeply into. You're developing familiarity with all of these metrics. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah, we're in learning mode when it comes to commercial side. We're very much in execution mode when it comes to content because we've been doing content for years. Yeah.

But we haven't been doing commercial for very long. And so it's less about, why isn't this happening? It's more about, you know, replace blame with curiosity, right? So it's like, instead of why isn't this happening, be like, oh, that's interesting. 300 customer success, you know, inquiries.

It feels like a lot. Ooh, it feels like an opportunity, you know? And so then, oh, we could be doing some things differently and that's going to improve sales because we'll probably have better retention and better word of mouth and, and,

You know, conversion is only, what did you say, 0.6 or something? Yeah, that kind of thing. We're going to be rich. Free money on the table. You know, so it's like, oh, that's an opportunity. And as you develop familiarity, learn, and then go for the quick wins and improve some of these, it will naturally funnel down and you will graduate.

your you know continuous improvement will lead to improvement of various metrics you know this stuff should go into the sprints by the way we're going to focus on reducing

Customer success, you know, what's our X to Y? We want weekly inquiries. Our hypothesis is that if we get weekly inquiries from 300 to 50, it's going to be good for the business. How are we going to do that? Well, we're going to look at, well, what are the different types of inquiries that we get? Let's check that against FAQs. Is the self-serve on this good enough? Do we have an AI chatbot that could come in and take out 80% of these? You know, all that sort of stuff.

Um, and then over time, like a year, two years later, your 24 metrics and the commercial side is, you know what, we've kind of improved all the quick wins. And really it's just these three, four or five that on an ongoing basis, you know, are the true needle movers. Nice. That is super, super helpful. Yeah. Just that shift in thinking from like the, because everyone says like, you should only have as a CEO or whatever, you should look at five to 15 metrics because more is like, you're not going to look at any of them. And I'm like,

I actually kind of do want to look at all of them, but that's okay because we're learning and I'm becoming more familiar with the numbers and I didn't know what conversion rate meant until a few months ago. And yeah, as we're

It also feels really good making all these, like learning all these things because every week we learn new stuff and sort of implement it into the business, which is all the work that for someone to compete with us, they will also have to do. Totally. Unless they've already run businesses before and have all the information in their head and have teams that are way more experienced and then they just build the thing. But like outside of that,

Yeah, this is all work that people have to-- we're just building a boat around the product of the business. Yeah, and you're polishing every little facet. And it gets to the point where the aggregate compounding effect of that over time, that's what creates the strength in your brand positioning, the proposition, and all of that. So it's OK that there's loads of things to improve.

you should be grateful that you have the team in place that can actually attack, compartmentalize. But all of that stuff should go into the sprints. That's the, what are we doing as a business function?

Is this in service of the theme for the sprint and or continuous improvement of what we do? And in that sense, all of this stuff gets worked on all the time anyways. Sick. That's super helpful. Thank you. Yeah. I have, you know, again, I'll use, um, and there's always going to be stuff to do. So I'll use myself once again as, as an example, um,

So for, so for lead gen for myself, so on my website, you can get a free download of, you know, one of my books, the three alarms. There's also this scale up, scale up assessment in which you took that shows you, you know, where you need to like improve as a CEO or a founder of your business. And there's also this like peak performance assessment. I just the other day,

I looked at all the people taking the quizzes, you know, these assessments, and it's like hundreds per day. And I'm like, what are we doing with this data? So they're just going straight into the email list. But like, there's a huge opportunity there when, for example, if a CEO says, I run a $30 million annual, you know, recurring revenue business, it's like,

Why am I not being notified of those types of people who are, and they have a low assessment score. It's like a very natural thing, like from a data point of view that I should be kind of closer to, right? And then jumping on, of course, I'm in this situation, I think similar to you as well, where it's like, yeah, but the business is going so well that you kind of have this overflow and

You're in a fortunate position where it's okay. But my point is that I recognize these data opportunities as well, these metrics that exist that I'm not really acting on fully yet, but it's okay. I'm just like, ah, there's opportunity there. - Yeah, so I guess a big part of this, my big takeaway from this is that it's okay to sort of just lengthen the, just basically have more patience.

instead of thinking like, oh, we've got this new thing. Oh, the sky's falling. We need to act on it right now. It's like, actually, things are going fine. We can always act on it three weeks from now when the next sprint comes around. Yeah, I don't want you to become more

patient really like i i think it's good to especially in your role to have that constant like impatience like i think that's an important source of you know energy and drive for the company all i'm saying is we just need a process or a system for that to be channeled through yeah

right and we have that with the idea island now and the new sprint system and all the project management it's like exactly so you can remain impatient oh my god i want to do all this stuff but just don't be the bull in the china shop yeah i just funnel it into the idea island and then it goes into our system for the sprints and it's like cool yeah shattered glass everywhere it's all happening yeah nice cool thank you very much cool yeah good sesh good uh part one uh where can people find out more we have the business bundle don't we

Yes. So actually, I just mentioned a few different things that if you want to pick it. So if you want to pick up, there's a bunch of stuff. So in the video description, there's a link to take it. It's called the Business Coaching Bundle. And it has a copy of my book, The Three Alarms.

It has the scale up assessment if you want to see how your business is performing, where it's strong, where it's weak, where you next need to focus. It has a peak performance assessment, which will essentially help you determine how do you close the gap between your current and best self across a few different dimensions. And you even have some stuff that you put in that bundle as well. So the ideal week template, which is like one of the first things that we talked about when we started working together. So how do you create your ideal week?

And then you have the 90-day goals template in there. So that's all there. - All that's for free down in the video description or in the show notes, wherever people are watching or listening to this. Any final words, wisdom for anyone who has gotten to this far in this specific aspect of our conversation? - I think that, let's bring it back to that question. Ask yourself professionally and personally,

If everything, you know, start professionally, ask yourself, if everything were to remain the same in my professional life, exactly as it is, doesn't mean it's not growing, but just growing at continue, you know, continue, uh, you know, the current rates, where is the one area where change would have the greatest impact and then just go all in on creating change, like within that area. And then same, you know, personally, you know, is it on the health side? Is it, you know, in your relationships? Is it in your, you know, personal productivity? Um, and, um,

that's taken the 80-20 approach, right? 20% of effort for 80% of the result. Sweet. Thank you very much. Cool.

All right, so that's it for this week's episode of Deep Dive. Thank you so much for watching or listening. All the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are gonna be linked down in the video description or in the show notes, depending on where you're watching or listening to this. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, then do please leave us a review on the iTunes store. It really helps other people discover the podcast. Or if you're watching this in full HD or 4K on YouTube, then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode. That would be awesome. And if you enjoyed this episode, you might like to check out this episode here as well, which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode.

So thanks for watching. Do hit the subscribe button if you aren't already, and I'll see you next time. Bye-bye.

We're sunsetting PodQuest on 2025-07-28. Thank you for your support!

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