Alan C. Duncan and Anna Welch
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First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. You know, how do you overcome injustice? We can all agree Dr. Allen is a really wonderful example of overcoming evil with good. Our book is a children's picture book that seeks to distill that story down and highlight it by itself.

Two guests who happen to be friends join us for this edition of First Person. I'm Wayne Shepherd, and you'll meet Alan C. Duncan and Anna Welch, friends and colleagues of mine who have penned a book for children, a true story which I think you'll enjoy.

We'll get to the conversation shortly, but first, let me thank you for your listening support of First Person. We bring you stories each week that illustrate how God uses people who are committed to His will and ways to impact the world. Each of our interviews are archived online for convenient listening at FirstPersonInterview.com. But you can also subscribe to our podcast with all the popular apps and never miss a program.

As I host various radio programs and podcasts, one of my assignments is with the public square, part of the American Policy Roundtable. A new children's book has just been published by APR. It's the true story of the American scholar, Dr. William B. Allen. Let's meet Allen C. Duncan and Anna Welch, who have co-authored this illustrated children's book. Here's Allen to begin.

Dr. William B. Allen, I like to say he's the foremost or the premier scholar of the American founding that we currently have living. For my money, that's who he is. He's a political philosopher. He's an educator.

And he's an author as well of many academic works. Like if you go to George Washington's house, if you go to Mount Vernon, there's a gift shop there and Dr. Allen's works are sold in that gift shop.

George Washington, A Collection is the book that you can find there. He's written a commentary on the Federalist Papers. He's written on Uncle Tom's Cabin and Harriet Beecher Stowe. He's also an ordained minister. That's

As well, which is interesting. I talked to him about that. It's something that he said he kind of had been running from that calling a bit throughout his life. Is that right? And it was later on in his life that he actually became an ordained minister that preaches in the pulpit from time to time. But he's just a great friend of us at the American Mission Center and the public square. Well, I'm hoping maybe we can have a chance to talk with him here and have him tell his own story to us on first person at some point. We'll work on that. But in the meantime, we've got this wonderful,

wonderful children's book telling his story. Anna, you are one who put the story together along with Alan. So let's talk more about Dr. Alan and what is so inspiring about this man. Sure. So The Front Steps is a children's book and it's about a true story about a boy who loved to read. That boy would later grow up to be Dr. William B. Allen, our good friend. And it really examines his life in a moment in history where

During the time of segregation and when he was a child. And it tells a story in time that truly happened to him. And then the book goes then farther and shares how he grew up and what he ended up doing with his life to overcome some of the things he experienced as a child. And where did this happen? Where did he grow up? He grew up in Fernandina Beach, Florida. And he was one of 12 children.

His father was a Baptist preacher and a fisherman, so his dad would go out on long fishing voyages. He would be home with his mother and his siblings.

One of the things we wanted to include in the work was including his family unit into especially the illustrations of the project. So you'll see William as a young boy in this children's book, but you also see some of his family members, which was a really important part.

Yeah, I was just looking at our bookshelf in here. We have so many books about Fernandina Beach, Florida, on the shelves here because we wanted to make sure that the illustrations at least weren't perfectly accurate but reflected that place and that time period. So place this in a time frame for us, not to give away his age, but when would this would have happened? So this was happening in the 1950s.

In the South, during segregation, William goes out one day on a walk to the library. I have a couple comments from Dr. Allen. As we were researching and getting to know his childhood, we asked lots of questions to him about, you know, what did your house look like? And what did you do as a little boy? And how many siblings did you have? And

It was really a neat experience to get to know someone that way from their childhood. Really, really sweet moments. Well, let me ask you, did anything surprise you as you talked to him about his early life? Yes. Here are his words exactly. It's also worth reflecting why I was able to wander on my own to approach the library. Its location was not only opposite my kindergarten, but on the route to worship every Sunday.

We youngsters usually went to church in a gaggle, but once I was introduced to kindergarten, I was released to go there on my own, somewhere between five and a half and six and a half years old. What a different era it was.

So to me, that was one thing that surprised me. You have to go back in time and put yourself in that character from real person, real history. What was it like back then? And kids in small towns and areas they were familiar with often would walk to church or walk to school. Or in this case, this book sets him up as walking to the library. Can I share some more things about Dr. Allen's family, Wayne? Please. Okay. Yeah.

So just to get a context for the young William in this book, he's seven years old and he had a pet boxer that often invaded the chicken coop. So the dog didn't last for too long before he found a new home.

Yeah, because again, a different time, you're using all those eggs. You need those chickens. A family that big, right? Yeah, you're not running to Costco or something. Those eggs are primo. And this is something that has shaped Dr. Allen. So,

We're so thrilled to be able to share this book with your listening audience. But just to share about Dr. Allen, you're so shaped by how you grow up, where you grow up, and the family and the friends you're involved with. And Dr. Allen, as we were researching just him as a young child, he wrote about his mother saying that she was a saint, right?

the angel who shepherded me throughout my life after her far too early passing at age 47. In my boyhood, she was the glue, the very definition of a homemaker. At the same time, she was a practicing midwife and a general support for people in need of our community.

She was very active. She encouraged my every ambition. And her one apologem I have frequently shared was how insistently she reminded me, hold your head up, boy. She did that only because physically I had a great tendency to incline my head, but also as a reminder to approach the world with confidence. And you're going to see that in this book. You're going to see a young boy who grows up to approach the world with confidence. Yeah.

Well, this is a story of a man that we all admire very much. And by the way, we are all associates of the American Policy Roundtable. We work together on radio programs, and the two of you have worked under that banner and under the banner of Kids on the Square.

as subsidiary of the public square radio show that we do. And we'll talk more about that perhaps, but Alan, you've spent some time with Dr. Alan recording him and listening to him and reading his material as well. I mean, this is a man who's, uh,

I mean, he's above my pay grade sometimes in what he writes about. Right. Well, you know, it's funny you mention that. He is one of four human beings to ever translate Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws, that classic work, into English.

And one of the other people that did it was King George. So he's also working on some more stuff about him as well. That is hopefully to come in the future. But Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws, if people aren't familiar, was...

other than the Bible, that was the work that the founders of America quoted more than anything else. And I learned that from Dr. W.B. Allen. So it's very important work for our founding and there just weren't that many additions in English. And so Dr. W.B. Allen worked for about 50 years on and off, worked on other things as well in that time, but in translating it from French,

into English for us. And so I have that on my shelf by my bedside, but I think it's probably gonna take me 50 years to read it. So it took him 50 years to write it, might take me 50 to read it. Well, that's just a little bit about this man, but what is he like personally, Anna? I mean, given all these credentials, he sounds like he could be kind of stuffy. Not at all. Although I do check all my spelling before I email him to make sure I don't have any typos. So I still do that, but...

No, he is so warm-hearted. He really is. He's quick to laugh, which is something that you might not expect from someone who's so smart and so well-studied. But he has a great laugh, a great smile, and he's not shy to display that. And we'll continue talking with Alan and Anna about this new children's book, The Front Steps, coming up here on First Person. ♪

Hi, I'm Ed Cannon. And as you know, situations around the world are changing quickly. Stay current with FEBC's ministry and get a deeper understanding of people who need to find hope. Hear how you can feel the pulse of God's Spirit moving through the hearts of believers dedicated to reaching the lost. Be sure you join me for the podcast until all have heard. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.

Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. My guests are Alan C. Duncan and Anna Welch. Together they have put together a book,

Well, that is true.

Sadly, I first heard Dr. Allen tell that story when my dad and I went to visit him at his house in Havre de Grace, Maryland. Dr. Allen was in the process of giving the American Policy Roundtable probably half of his personal library. The other half is at an academic institution.

And so he gave us his library. So my dad and I went as kind of representatives to do, it was kind of a father-son road trip. We went down there. It's a beautiful community that Dr. Allen lives in. And we were just kind of there as the folks were packing up his books, just as a thank you and representatives of our organization. And so Dr. Allen was very gracious with his time and sat and chatted with us.

And he told that story to my dad and I about the fact that he loved to read. He described himself as a bookish child. He just loved to read. He read everything. He needed some more stuff. And so he walked to the library and they wouldn't let him in. And just...

You know, and some of this stuff, we don't want to kind of spoil the whole book. There are a couple little, I wouldn't say twists, but there's some poignant little moments. I don't want to spoil it. But the way he told the story, and with no bitterness at all, obviously he wasn't saying what happened to him was correct. He didn't have a bitterness about him. My dad and I were driving back and we just got to talking and we said, this sounds like a children's book.

It was so poignant, the way he described this encounter, that we said, that sounds like a book. Ended up writing a draft, and then our whole team around the table at the American Policy Roundtable, everybody pretty much contributed a draft or an idea. And it really was this really fun team effort of trying to bring this story to life. Did he welcome the idea? He did, which was amazing. Well, I've got to tell you an embarrassing account on my part about that.

So I was tasked to reach out to him initially and ask him if it'd be okay to tell this story. And so I asked him, I said, hey, you know, you remember you told my dad and me this story and would it be okay if we worked on a children's book project about this? And, oh, and we also asked him, has this ever been told anywhere else already? And he wrote back and said, yes, it was told in my book, The State of Black America on page, and he gave me the page numbers.

And I felt like an inch big because we've already interviewed him about that book on the public square. And what better way to say, I have not read the entire book

than to have him point out to me the page numbers that this account was told already in his book. But yeah, so The State of Black America is a very great scholarly work that features the work of a lot of different people. But our book is a children's picture book that seeks to distill that story down and highlight it by itself. Let's talk about those pictures, those illustrations. They're beautiful, Anna. Yes, we had a wonderful illustrator, Amy Selstad, work on this project with us. And

She did such a lovely job.

in a watercolor fashion to bring William to life and all of the characters involved and the setting. And it was really a very enjoyable, fun part of the process would be like me and Alan sit down and have meetings with Amy and have a million ideas. And then to see those ideas get finely tuned and then put, you know, paint on paper to say, and,

And to see it come to life was just really neat for the both of us. So professionally done. Great job. Yeah, Amy was a true professional. We had her kind of on a tight timeframe as well because we were trying to get this book in the hands of folks for the Christmas season that year.

And so she knew our deadlines and she worked very hard to make sure that she could get that accomplished. And she was also going to art school at the same time. So, yeah, so she did a heroic job to get that in people's hands. Tell me about the process of saying this needs to be taught to children, this story. Why make this a children's book? Well,

Well, I think it has a great message of overcoming injustice. That can be applicable to, I mean, all stages of life. And so I think we tried to tell his story, you know, not over the top or just try to tell his story in the best way we could. But also there's many lessons. But I think one of the big lessons you draw from is, you know, how do you overcome injustice effectively?

in the world, and how do you overcome evil by doing good? Which I think we can all agree Dr. Allen is a really wonderful example of Romans 12, 21, overcoming evil with good. You both are parents. Allen, your boys are a little older than Anna's children. This book is

has impacted your voice? Yeah, yeah, I think it has. Caleb is known to cry at books and things. So I think he shed some tears when I read this. I think, I can't remember fully because he kind of cries at every book, which is one of his great traits. He's a very tenderhearted person.

but he was kind enough to take it into his reading teacher. His reading teacher is one of his favorite teachers. And I think the feeling's mutual. So he took it into her and she actually wrote us a very sweet note. And that was special for us to get because Caleb struggles with reading. I don't know, it was special for my family. And Anna, your children are younger, but do you see any impact for them? I mean, I know they have seen you

work on this process of developing this book over time and now they see it. What are their reactions? They were very happy when the book was finally here in our house that I got to show them because I think they saw...

from kind of start to finish what it looks like to do a project like this. They, of course, love the story and the illustrations, and they did really love the book in general. But I think they overall just saw what it looks like to take just a concept, an idea, a conversation in a car on the way back from Maryland to Ohio, and to see that conversation

go from talking to others about it, then to writing drafts as a team, then to collaborating all those ideas and editing it down to one draft.

And finding an editor. And they didn't see all of those little steps, but they saw some of them. And I think that they looked at that book and they were like, wow, mommy, we're really proud of you. I think that was their biggest takeaway. And as they grow a little older, they're going to catch the message as well, pointing out the injustice and the fact that this little boy overcame injustice.

that injustice. So that's a great message for any kid of any age. Well, we hope this book will also be placed in libraries. As a matter of fact, you got some feedback from a librarian about the book, didn't you, Anna? This is from Mary Hassler. She's the CEO of Harford County Public Library in Bell Camp, Maryland. And she writes, Beautifully illustrated and deeply heartwarming, this picture book introduces readers to William, a young boy who discovers the world through his love of reading. So,

Set during a time when African Americans were prohibited from entering public libraries, William's sadness is met with a quiet act of kindness. A librarian brings him a book to read on the library steps.

Inspired by his love of books and fueled by his dream of creating a library open to everyone, William grows up to become a champion of reading and public libraries for all. This lovely story touches the heart and soul, leaving readers filled with hope and inspiration. We mentioned the book was created under the auspices of Kids on the Square.

which is part of the American Policy Roundtable. What is Kids on the Square? Who wants to tackle that one? Kids on the Square, right now, it's mainly an audio podcast. It's kind of a radio variety show audio podcast that Sarah and Jonah Jackson on our team are producing. And so it'll be skits and moments from history and recipes. It's a very fun, interactive type show.

But I think from this initial podcast, there are hopes to maybe expand to some video things in the future. Maybe there's a nice website, kidsonthesquare.com. And obviously now we have kind of a starting up a print wing of it as well. So it's the Public Square and the American Policy Roundtable's outreach and mission to children. Final question or two for you. The book has been out for a few months and it's getting great reviews like we've heard here.

What does it mean to you personally to be a part of a project like this? Alan, can I start with you? Well, I grew up with my mom in particular reading me, and my dad too, but my mom in particular reading me children's books. And there are still children's books I could pick up today. And just the images and the words that are in those books will snap me back to that place as a child. So this is a genre of literature that I have loved.

since I have memories. Even today, I find myself, I'm in a bookstore, which is one of my favorite hobbies is going to bookstores. I find myself wandering over to the children's book section and looking at it. I just, I think the art in them when they're done, when it's done right is very beautiful. I think there's a poetry to the words to a really well-written children's book.

And so I've always wanted to write one. And so for the first one that I've ever written and that's been put out into the world, for it to be one that also honors a man that I consider a great man and a friend and a mentor, I couldn't ask for a higher honor for my first children's book. Anna? Two things come to mind.

going along with what Alan's saying about just the immense responsibility of sharing someone else's story, what an honor to be entrusted with that. We never took that lightly, and our desire really was just to beautifully tell Dr. Alan's story for the next generation. And I know we all have a heart for the next generation here today,

reaching out to children and growing them up in the ways of good, solid truth. And we see sharing stories like this as part of that. That's the thing about a good children's book, which I hope and pray that this is, is that when you go to a library or a bookstore and you go to the children's section, some of these books are 50 years old. It

if not older, you know, a good children's book to your point will live on. Um, and that was something that I think we tried to do is make this have a timeless feel. Sometimes the, the books that are being fed to children nowadays have some sort of a political bent or a slant to them, whether from the left or the right, it's kind of very of the political moment. And

And I just don't necessarily think that those kinds of pieces of art last, if they're even considered art at all, probably more propaganda. This obviously has a point to it, but it's not a piece of political propaganda. It's hopefully a piece of art that can last. And what a neat way for him to live on, his legacy, to live on in a children's book.

And one last thing, Anna, proceeds from the book go to Kids on the Square, right? All the proceeds are going directly to benefit the American Policy Roundtable and outreaches like Kids on the Square. We don't profit from it personally. Again, you've been listening to the authors of the children's book, The Front Steps, Anna Welch and Alan C. Duncan, as they tell the story of Dr. William B. Allen, now a noted American scholar who just wanted to read as a boy. It's a wonderful true story.

We'll have links to this illustrated children's book at FirstPersonInterview.com.

Listen for the podcast until all have heard.

Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for listening to First Person.