#79 Finding your niche in UX design
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Niche is a very personal definition and it can be very broad. And I don't want to give a recipe, right? So niche means being an ops or a product designer. It doesn't necessarily mean that. Again, it can mean multiple things for multiple people. And I think that's the key here.

Hello everyone and welcome to the next episode of Honest UX Talks. My name is Anfisa and I'm joined today by my lovely co-host Ioana. Today we're gonna talk about a topic called finding your niche in UX design. Something I really hope that could be helpful for aspiring designers because let's be honest, it's overwhelming.

Our industry loves to create new roles, new specialities, new activities to be done throughout the design process. And for any new designer, it could just look like too much. And it's very, very, very hard to understand what you should be doing and what you are good at and what speciality you should be building. Because we all know that many companies prefer specialities rather than generalists, unless, of course, you're targeting startups and freelance clients.

So that's the topic for today. But before jumping right into the topics, I also want to make a little announcement. Some of you already have heard in a previous episode that I'm actually launching a new course that will be live and cohort based for only 20 people. And it's called Into UX Jobs. So some of you know that I have a course called Into UX Design.

all about design process, how to get started, understanding strategy, building products, validating ideas, and stuff like that. And now it's been on the market for a while now, I believe, around three years. And this year I'm actually launching a live course, so it's not pre-recorded, but it's really like interactive course where we will be building a small community of 20 people, and I will be personally helping every single one to get into UX jobs, meaning that we will talk about the holistic process of a

approaching job search, starting from mindset, understanding how to do it, a lot of practical steps, a lot of secrets that are not noticeable or visible online, things you probably don't know, tricks, as well as I'm going to share a lot of templates such as CV template, reflection board, whiteboarding challenge, case study presentations, and stuff like that. You will also have workshops and also get personal feedback. So if you're interested, make sure to check out the link in the show notes.

So I really hope it could be helpful. Unfortunately, it's going to be only one course this year. I wish I could do more Ecolife cohort-based courses, but this year I will be only able to do it once. And then if it will go well, maybe next year I'll do it again. But yeah, if you're looking for a job this year, probably this is the time. It's actually starting very soon. It starts in the middle of April, so make sure to check it out and jump right into it. All right, with that all being said, let's dive right into the topics.

So with this little intro, let's dive into the topic. And the topic of today is, again, how to find your niche in UX design. So again, for the context, there are so many specialties today and so many skills to be built. And it's very, very hard to understand what are the general directions and I guess even layers on the market today.

So let's start talking about the general situation today, and then we will start talking about every single speciality and how can designer, especially aspiring designer, try to understand where do they fit in? What are they good at? Should they be the UX designer? Should they be a product designer? Should they be a UX researcher, information architecture designer, UX writer, design ops or design systems? You name it. It's just so many different specialities.

So, Ioana, what do you think about the current situation? How did we get here? And also, how can we make it simpler, I guess, for our listeners? Hi, welcome to this episode. We're going to try to share our thoughts around how to navigate all the options. I'm not very good at navigating options.

Or I'm particularly good. I'm not sure yet. We'll see. Time will tell. But I'm very experimental. So I like to try different things and understand, learn about myself. And so finding my niche is something that I've been doing. And I think it's perpetual work, right? So just to set up the stage for this conversation, you're not done.

right? So you might find a place where you're comfortable, you're happy, you feel like you've made it, this is it, I'm going to do UX writing, this is my life now. But then in a couple of years, your priorities, your tastes, your needs, your goals could change. So I think that we are, each of us is an ever-evolving organism, we're learning, we're trying, we're growing, we're failing, we're just heading towards the next step for us. So I don't think there's a unique answer. But to be less philosophical about it, let's move into more

tactical advice. I think the design industry right now kind of has a naming problem, or at least there's an inflation of titles. Everybody is now a product designer. A couple of years ago, we were all UX designers. Before that, we were graphic designers or web designers or whatever. So it's clear that there are some of these, let's say, shifts or trends.

And then also there are new specialties being created. And I think that's great. I see teams that are pretty mature, like in big companies with established design cultures and so on. They have several roles, like the UX writer is working together with the UX researcher and the product designer and the UI designer and the content designer. And so it's just very specific roles coming together.

However, also in big companies and especially in small companies, people just hire for a product design role and they expect the product designer to be able to deliver end-to-end design solutions, right? Also handle the copy, also handle the research, handle visual design, especially in companies like, I don't know,

meta, if you want to go work for Instagram, they will look at your visual skills. So specializing is kind of tricky because most of the roles out there kind of require you to be non-niched, right, as a designer. So this is something to bear in mind when you search for your niche. Maybe you want to be generalistic or maybe you can find your own particular flavor of what kind of designer you are. Now, there's also the question like,

okay, maybe I want to be a generalist designer, but I want to specialize in AI, or I want to specialize in banking, or I want to specialize in an industry. That's another way of defining what your niche is. So you don't have to be content designer or just call yourself senior visual designer that only does UI.

Maybe you don't want to define that, but you might want to define, I'm a person that works on startups mostly. I like products and it's in their infancy. I like challenges. I like operating with the unknown. That's my thing. That's my niche. Or I'm a person who likes to

huge enterprise B2B products and I want to work in SaaS companies or whatever. Or I'm just a person who likes healthcare and mental health for people and that's what I want to work in. So niche could mean multiple things. And I want to tell new people just entering the industry, don't get discouraged by the sea of titles out there. Sometimes they don't mean as much as they seem to mean.

It's just an internal naming or some sort of convention that companies need to have in order to be able to operate and differentiate. And you know how titles are something that's just a way to call things. But then essentially what you do can differ for the same title. It can be completely different in two different companies. So don't get too hung up on titles and focus more on finding what makes you happy. That's my intro.

I love it. It was very nice and structured. I think I'd like to recap and then build another layer on top of that. So I like that you mentioned that it's not just a role, but also an industry. And there is the third layer, as for me, that I actually want to talk about particularly a lot today.

because I just discovered it. And it's more about your natural interests, or even like talents, if you can say so, because talents is like a very abstract word, but let's call it natural interests, but also developed skills, right? I mean, there are so many skills you can develop, and especially early stage, when maybe you're trying to do everything right, and it's right to try everything out to understand, okay, what's the process? What are the puzzles? What are the steps? What are the stages? What are the methods? What are the

all the things, right, we do and practice in design. First, of course, early stage in your career and your first project to try out everything. You try all those personas, accessibility analysis, journey maps, service blueprints, how my tweets, ideation, workshops, storyboards, wireframes, design system, agile integrations, design methodology, KPI, et cetera, et cetera. So you actually go very broad and then you feel like, oh my God, it

so many things, it's overwhelming. What is natural to me? What am I good at, right? And that's an interesting part that I actually want to focus on right now. So if we zoom out and try to think about all those domain, let's say, deliverables, you can notice that most of those things could be fit into four quadrants. And the quadrants will be built based on two axes. The first axis will be all about business and user.

Let's call it a horizontal X. And then let's call it a horizontal axis. So from business to users. As designers, we often work basically balancing out the business needs and user needs, right? So we're like this sort of bridge or matchmaker between both of those. And these are equally important. And we always try to solve business problems while helping users and focusing on the value-based metrics.

At the same time, there is a second axis, let's call it a vertical axis, from problem to solution. We, as we work, right, we always explore problem, we try to understand it, we do research, we go abroad, and then we slowly, slowly converge and get to the solution space. We ideate, we explore concepts, and then we start refining them and get to the specific nitty-gritty detailed solution. So there are kind of two

quadrants, if you think about it, from business to user, from problem to solution. And those four quadrants actually make up, again, four quadrants. But we can also call them different spaces where you can be applicable, when you can apply, and where you can start building, let's say, deeper speciality, strong sites, right? Because...

To be very honest, and right now I'm in a very strong space of like searching for a job, reflecting, understanding what you're good at. So I'm interested in this topic so much. But every time you're searching for a job, there will be questions coming from the interviewing manager asking you, what are your strong sides? What are you good at? What are you interested in? And

if you don't have an answer to this question, it's kind of a red flag because it's very important to know what you're good at, what are your natural talents, interests, what you perform well, what you understand well. There are also different levels of depths of knowledge, right? It's not just about understanding, okay, there are those methods, I maybe tried them once. It's not just about the knowledge and awareness, but also it's about practicing it and also developing that knowledge in depth.

right? So whatever you try, whatever you did in your work, there is always another space you didn't explore, but then there is always less granularity on how much you understand that space, from awareness to practice to knowledge. So sorry for being so nerdy right now.

But what I'm trying to say is that based on those four quadrants, we can actually outline four areas of, let's call it specialities. I found this article by BuzzWallet on Medium, and I will probably link this article on the show notes. And basically, that article outlines four areas, which is UX research, when we collect information, which locates next to problem and user. Then there is analysis, which is when we collect information, which is when we collect information.

which connects to problem and business. Then there is interaction design, user and solution space. And then there is operation, right? Solutions and business space, where you articulate, communicate, work with business, work with tech developers and stuff like that.

So there are four areas, again, user research, analysis, interaction, and operations. And you can build specialties, either a bit of everything everywhere, or you can build in-depth knowledge in either of those. And then this is where the interesting part comes, because you actually could be located as you start exploring yourself in the industry, as you start practicing design, as you start trying out different things in design, you can explore any of those quadrants and understand where you fit in naturally best.

So let's say if you would be more into the interaction design segment, you will be more like a product designer, UX designer. If you will be like in a very small, let's say, quarter of that square, you will be more like a UI designer. If you occupy the whole interaction design square and a bit of research analysis operations, then maybe you're like a UX designer.

And if you occupy most of the space in four quadrants, it's probably more like a product designer. And if you, let's say, focus only on the UX research square, then obviously you're a UX researcher. UX strategist would be somewhere between analysis and operation squares.

Business analysts, for example, would be mainly on the analysis square and stuff like that. UX strategies, for example, would be also between analysis and operations. And design op manager, also very new role. We actually have a design op manager in my work.

my company today would be very focused on operations. So those are four quadrants and you could try to kind of occupy the whole space and do a bit of everything as a product designer usually. Or you can actually build a speciality in one of those specific quadrants and be responsible for one area, right? Again,

the UX writer could also fit in there. Even at my work today, we have two groups of designers, one being product designers that work with product teams and being embedded in product development cycle. Typically, again, working with everyone, being this kind of person that has to communicate a lot, starting from internal team, design teams. And then we also have this third puzzle, which is like specialty design teams. So we have like solution team,

that works with a design system, that's the UX researchers, that's also design of operation, design of manager. We have a service designer team there, visual designers, et cetera, et cetera. So we kind of have two groups of people, product designers and the solution teams that is compound of multiple speciality roles. And I do believe that many, many companies today are looking for speciality roles. You don't need to be just a product designer. That's it.

You can actually discover that you're interested in one of those, let's say, squares and start exploring. Maybe you can build a speciality and be very specific in your role. And I can see that more and more companies start looking for the specialities. But again, it's 50-50 today, I think, in the market because we still need people who are good at everything, kind of. But also we need people that are very good in one particular area.

So I'll stop here and then I'll add another point to those quadrants. But I wonder, Ioana, is there anything else that sparks your interest or something that I have mentioned that we can expand on? Something that we might want to discover here as well, like any other layers we didn't mention yet?

I feel like we've covered quite a broad range of ideas in respect to niching. I do believe that there's a place for everyone, right? So you were talking about design ops and operations. We also have a principal UX program manager that only helps us improve the way we operate our processes, the frameworks, the flows and everything, collaboration in general. So it really comes down to understanding what you like and

And I'm going to go deeper into that, understanding what you like or what you're good at, or maybe the intersection, like, you know, the famous Venn diagram, what I'm good at and what I enjoy doing. And then there's a very small line where these two might meet. Hopefully, sometimes they don't even meet. But ideally, those would meet and you would have some options there. So the thing is that there are two components to it. Let's start with how do I even figure out what I'm good at and what I like?

And the key here, I think, is just trying out things, being experimental, right? So it could be in the early days of your career. Sometimes the early days of your career will not happen in your 20s when you're supposed to try out different things. It can happen later. For me, it happened later. For the past couple of years, I've been doing a lot of trying to be an entrepreneur. I've been

experimented with founding my own startup as a founding designer, working full-time, doing side gigs, freelancing, content creation. So I've been doing a lot of things. What all this effort essentially comes down to is that it helps me figure out what I want to do more of, what I'm good at, what I enjoy doing, what gets me excited when I think about it, what generates a feeling of dread. Sometimes I felt dread towards the things I needed to do. It all starts with, I keep saying this, like for the past

three, four years, I think I've been promoting the idea of self-awareness, self-reflection, sitting down with you and doing this introspection effort where you try to figure out what you actually want. So let's say you figure out, you do that and you do that by observing.

trying different things and observing yourself. That's essentially what it comes down to. Trying different things. And now this could be a follow-up question. Like, how do I even start trying different things? Like, it's not even accessible to me to experiment so much. Like, okay, maybe I want to try UX writing, but how do I do that? I think there's always a way. You could do it as a side gig. You could do it as a personal project. Let's say you want to see if you enjoy research. So you don't know if that

It's something that you feel like you'd be good at. You feel like it would make you happy. But how do you know if you're in a, let's say, UI design role and that's what your company offers? I feel that we have the freedom and flexibility to sort of expand our current roles, whatever they are. So let's say you're a UI designer and you know that you want to maybe experiment more with research.

think you can push for that. So if there's no research system in your company, you could start proposing it, you could start talking about it, you could start researching it, looking at frameworks, looking at a system. So you can like push the boundaries of your current role. Or if there is a research system in this particular example in your company, you could just join the researchers in whatever it is they're doing and just shadow them and

observe what they're doing, why they're doing, how they're doing it, and so on. What I always say is that you can sort of define the role you have to fit the experiments you want to run, or to fit your personality, or to fit essentially what you're good at, even in the current setups you're in. But to do that, you need to understand what you want it to be, right? So be intentional, like with everything in design. And so I think that there is room for experimenting. Maybe you want to try UX writing. You could

create your own UX writing project on the side. So you don't have to wait for permission. You don't have to have the UX writing role to understand whether you like it or not. You can just start playing around with the things that you're attracted towards. I think that's it. I think that the key to finding a niche or understanding how do you want to even define that niche? Because as we've

explore. There are multiple ways to go about it. I think you could find a place, whatever it is you end up understanding about you and defining and having your professional persona. This is like your professional card. This is what I am. This is what I'm good at. This is what I want to do. Whatever that will be, you will be able to find a place where you can leverage your

Maybe not all of those goals, right? So nobody's fully happy. Nobody goes to work without any level of, I don't know, frustration or effort or compromise. So those are natural parts of everything you'll be doing. But you could increase the level of reward, let's say, of gratitude, of satisfaction from your role by trying out things and figuring out what works best for you. So I'm a huge advocate of experiments. My career looked like that.

Although I've also had very stable parts. So I've been 10 years with the same company, which is, I think, in my generation, like a record. I've been 10 years with the company. I've been over four years with the current employer and I love it and I don't plan on leaving. So I also have some stable parts. That's also something to take into account, like

Are you a stable person? Are you a more, let's say, flexible? How flexible are you? How much do you want to risk? How much do you want to try? How much, right? So all those are personal questions that only you can answer by sitting down with yourself. So I'm not sure if this helps you very much, but at least I'm pushing people towards introspection. And maybe if you feel like, I don't even know how to start that, the best way is just writing down your thoughts, just pouring down everything.

you can even start by a, let's say, association exercise, like niche. What does niche mean for me? And start putting down on paper the things that come to your mind when you think about niching. And maybe some things will pop out of your mind. And then you can just read what you wrote and observe what's going on in your head. It already gives you some perspective. But

But then also you could ask for help. Find a mentor, find a coach, find even a friend you can talk to or someone who's already doing the role you're sort of targeting or curious about or even with your therapist, right? Just start getting the help you need to put some structure to transform everything into a conversation. Conversations will definitely like remove the internal noise and at least move it outside. But if it's outside in a conversation, you can observe it better.

So start by talking, start by reading, start by writing, start by just trying to get the noise from your head on the outside and then observing what comes out of it. Yeah, those are the things that come to my mind when I think about niching. And I think the problem with how do we talk about niches is that it's a very personal definition and it can be very broad. And I don't want to give a recipe, right? So niche means being an ops or a product designer. It

doesn't necessarily mean that again it can mean multiple things for multiple people and I think that's the key here yeah so yeah I really like that you always refer back us to reflection and understanding yourself I think that's always a key as well as for me because you know when we started out there was no like so many niches first of all but also there was no like frameworks that we could

follow or like some guidance that could guide us into any of the directions so what we had to do was literally just like trying it out right trying experiment and trying things that we seem to be interested something that sparks an excitement in us and then trying it out and then see if it sticks with us or not because sometimes we're interested in the topic but we're not very good at it

For example, what I've discovered, like I am an extrovert, clearly, and I was originally very interested in user research, but in a specific part of it. Today, I know that. So when I started out, I was very like proactive. It was like, oh, I'm going to do an interview all the people because I'm not hesitant to reach out and ask questions. And there are introverts that are like a bit more, I guess, reserved. And then they're not as easily open to start like

doing this research and for me it was always an easy like sort of transition to doing it so i would jump right into like people i would do gorilla testing in the cafe shops and stuff like that and i'll start asking questions but i was not very mature let's say designer not very senior designer back then and i started asking a lot of questions and overwhelm people and like then i realized

by learning design that, oh, actually, I think I was leading a lot of people because I could take a lot of space. And then somehow, suddenly, I learned that I could be leading in the interviews. So maybe I'm not a great interviewer, but what I learned is that I'm more an analytical person and I can analyze those insights very well and kind of put them into reports. And so this is how you figure it out, right? You try it out. You think this is my natural skills. I'll do great at interviews.

But then understanding the design industry, you learn that you're good at it. You easily can do it, right? But you're not necessarily good at it. Or you can be good at it, but it's not natural to you, let's say. You can get to it, I guess, with some practice. So it's always a combination of my interests, what's natural to me, but also what am I good at. And what I've learned that a lot of introverts are so much better interviewers, they would listen much better. They

They would really dig into like deep questions and they would start probing better than I might be if I'm like so excited and want to go in all sorts of direction as the, yeah, as my type of personality. So what I really want to kind of add here as an extra layer to our conversation, and I really like this conversation because I feel like it's very interesting and so many people can reflect and try to think about their experiences here. So there is one way, right? What you just discussed, Ioana.

One is being proactive, experimenting and reflecting. So that's the loop you kind of have to go through to understand and really realize what works for you. But then there is another loop or there is a thing that nowadays it's also possible to try. And that's those guides that, you know, some people started looking back and realize, oh, maybe there is a way to cluster it. Doesn't mean that it's one size fits all and it will be universal for every single designer.

But there are actually more ways without trying it out to maybe figure out some ideas or directions for yourself. And what I'm referring about is the same article that I already mentioned. And that guy, BuzzWallet, he actually added to those like quadrants that I've mentioned with analysis, research, operations, and interaction. He have added personality type of tests,

on top of that and try to see if there is a way to associate personality type, psychology, I guess. Personality types of things are not necessarily scientific always, but he have added the typical personality types to the existing quadrants to understand in the segments on the market. And

And what he looked into is what I've already mentioned today, right? So I know that I'm an extrovert. And then what he added to this is the Carl Jung, who is a Swiss psychiatrist. He had added the concept of four functions. And I don't know if you heard about it, but Carl Jung came up with the function of sensing type, intuitive type, thinking type, and perceiving type. There are like, I guess, another two accesses here.

I've already talked about the specific industry accesses, but then there is also like your personality overlay onto it. And it comes to one vertical, which is introversion, extroversion, and then either of those horizontal types, such as sensing, intuitive type, thinking type, or perceiving type.

But that's a lot of theory. So I don't want to overwhelm you with like all those terms. It doesn't matter right now. What matters is that he decided to try out 16 personality test and map it on the design speciality squadrons. And so what happened is that he came up with this theory. And again, I would kind of say, let's take it with a disclaimer.

Because obviously those 16 personality types is just fun. You can definitely find some similarities in it, but it's not scientific. And I would really say it's just a fun way for us to cluster things, I guess, look at things in a more like organized way. However, it doesn't mean that it's one size fits all. So please take it with a disclaimer. But I just like this idea. And I like that you have more and more tools right now as a designer to...

kind of map it and try to give yourself a direction, I guess, in a better guided way. He said, let's take 16 personality tests and map it on those four quadrants with, again, like I said already, with analysis, research, operations, and interactions, and see if it could work together, right? If you could just do the test and understand where you potentially could fit in.

I kind of like the results of it because it kind of made sense to me in some ways. If you map out your personality type and the personality types, I don't know if you have seen it. Again, we will add all the links in the show notes. But there are basically like four quadrants, if you think about it. There is introverted,

and extroverted sensing, there is introverted and extroverted intuition, then introverted and extroverted thinking, and as well, introverted and extroverted feeling. You basically can have some sort of a role definition based on your personality test. I will only talk about a few of those, let's say, personality types, so I can give you an example.

But feel free to go ahead and read that article. So you also read and learn more about it if you're interested in doing it. I can also jump in here. Sorry. Yeah, sure. Go ahead. I'm a huge fan of 16 personalities, the test based on Myers-Briggs, which is based on Jung and so on. I've been exploring it in therapy quite a lot. But what's fun is that not only I know my personality type and I'm

I love how 16 personalities kind of assigns this little character. So in my case, I am the protagonist, even like the word protagonist. So sometimes in my mind, this would pop up. I am the protagonist. But I also know my friends' characters and their personality types and of course my partners and so on. And then I can understand how some dynamics happen and why in some parts were the same and the parts in which were different. So it's a really, really interesting life tool above anything else.

And for me, reading about the protagonist was really eye-opening because some things were really spot on, like literally explain life decisions and behaviors and everything. But even on a professional level, it was very, very surprisingly specific, which also made me feel like I'm very universal, like we're pretty much the same people in different versions, right? But it felt like I'm less special, but this was also freeing, right? It was empowering to not feel like I'm the only one with...

battling whatever I was battling. But this is something very universal. So it really helped me pinpoint some of the strong points or careers or essentially for me, it was about doing good in the world and being public and talking about things and helping others and empowering people and motivating. And so it was really pretty much aligned with what I was already doing. But it kind of gave me a sense of meaning, right? So I'm here because I'm like that.

This is happening because it was meant for my personality type and I am the protagonist. So it's really a really fun tool, both professionally and personally. And I'm going to let you dive into examples. It's nice. No, this is cool. I just checked protagonists is next to campaigner who I believe I am. So we're kind of similar in some ways.

I'm actually usually either a campaigner or entertainer. It depends, I guess, on the year or my mood, whatever. So it's always fun. I definitely have fun with those tests as well. And like, I do find some crossovers with reality. But yeah, like I said, it shouldn't be like taken very seriously. So back to the specialities.

bus wallet, took all those personality types and mapped it on the quadrant on what those sections are that we are working with. He kind of took every single type and gave it a role. Again, I'll just give a couple of examples because we don't have time for all 16 personality tests. Check out the article in the show notes. But he took, for example, introverted sensing and call it perfectly

details spotting researcher because those people again it's usually the type and if you try to go nerdy if you look into the website and try to see the codes it's ISTG or ISFG so those type of people would be great at research

Because, again, of the natural skills, of the natural behavioral traits, they could focus much better on the details. They would be more observant. And thus, there is this assumption, let's say, that they would be better with creating reliable reports, observation, digging into details, which would, of course, make them better researchers. They could also be great pixel-perfect UI designers because, again, of the details. But also because they are introverted sensing type,

They would be great as independent designers. So maybe also back to the previous topic we had in a podcast, maybe they would be best as freelancers because they would prefer slightly like working solely. They would focus better, could solve any problem independently. So that's one of the ways to go.

Then there is extroverted sensing. So I just talked about introverted sensing. This is extroverted sensing. And then this guy gave it a role design evangelist. It's typically ESTP or ESVP. This type would be located somewhere between analysis, research and operations type, more in analysis. It's actually one of the types I do have as well, which I've mentioned already. So these people usually understanding the dynamic of a group,

They are very good with people. They could be great and excellent facilitators or even product managers. However, they are easily distracted. They are better working with energy rather than details, let's say. And they're good at recognizing patterns and trends better.

but not again good at like details work. For example, I learned again from practice and reflection very early on that I hate all the pixel pushing handoff work because I'm very bad at it. I'm always like making mistakes. I don't pay attention a lot to so many details and I do hate the part of this like design process.

I like to ideate and navigate group dynamic and kind of think holistically and strategically and analyze things. But when it comes to delivering things and making perfect handoffs, I'm just like not excited. It's always like, oh, leftovers. I have to finish. And okay, okay, I have to do it, but I don't want to do it, you know? Yeah.

It's like I learned it from my practice, but also this test gives me the same direction. It tells me, if you're this type, you're most likely good at these things, but not good at other things, right?

And by the way, this is another point to what you said, reflection, right? Another way to learn about yourself is to also ask feedback from your colleagues. And I remember that when I was leaving Citrix, I've asked my colleagues because we went through the layoffs and my office was cut down. And so I asked my colleagues in US that were staying in the company to leave me some reviews on the LinkedIn so I can better find jobs.

And a lot of people actually said I'm great at workshop facilitations, which I never knew about, honestly. I never really asked them, what do you think I'm good at? But then when people started filling out those reviews, actually, apparently, a lot of people thought I'm a great facilitator. So that's something I've learned from other people. And that again matches with this extroverted sensing type, I guess. Maybe two more types, and then I will wrap it and

suggest everyone to read the article further. Let's talk about also introverted and extroverted intuition. So introverted intuition would be great interaction designers, basically because they would be very rich at internal imaginations. Maybe they would also like fantasy books or games, which would feed their imagination. They would be reflective thinkers, prefer to focus on one specific subject.

Because of the, again, introverted type, they would be great at working in remote companies and excelling in independent ideation. But on the flip side, they sometimes tend to be overthinkers. Whereas extroverted intuition, they would be positioned as ideators. That would be their role. They would be better like product designers.

So they would be great at interaction, but also very good at collaborating with researchers, maybe PMs as analysis and operations. So typically extroverted intuition people, which is ENTP or ENVP, would be big picture

They would be natural ideators. They would love to connect the dots and make concepts and generate ideas. They would be great in innovating and coming up with low fidelity, but big problem solving and stuff like that, right? So...

It's like another way to look and a way to understand who you could be, right? Let's imagine you're just starting out today. You're overwhelmed with so many, so many niches and skills and types of work. And maybe this test could kind of just help you directing you.

Of course, you still have to match it with your practice and reflection and asking for feedback from your colleagues. But especially if you don't have company yet and you don't have people to ask for, like, what do you think I'm good at? And you didn't even have many projects yet to reflect upon them. You can just do this test and it could hopefully direct you into one of the, I guess, niches, specialties in our industry. Because again, it's huge. It's overwhelming. And I think...

It's just helpful to give yourself any sense of direction, even if it doesn't need to be like truth. And sometimes you find more interest in other ways of application. All right. So I think we mentioned a lot of things, a lot of puzzles today. Let's maybe just jump right into the takeaways. So is there something you want us to highlight as the main thing from the discussion, Ioana?

I think we went through a lot of things and it was more of a broad, like there's no recipe or kind of main ideas. I think people can like pick and choose what they want to take away from this conversation because it was more, let's say, psychological, philosophical, friendly, informal, right? So I don't have, I don't personally have any specific takeaways, just that you can define niche in any way you want and you have to experiment. I think those are my key points.

My key takeaways or key points would be that our industry is really multilayered. There are roles, there are industries, there are interests, there are skills that you develop, and all those overlap with each other and are this complex. And then there is personality that you are, and maybe you have natural interests and talents. So there are a lot of, I guess, wickedness in how do you define it. And three tools that we discussed today could really help you identify in your niche.

First tool being experimented, like trying out different things and reflecting on what sticks with you.

Second tool is asking for feedback from your colleagues, people you collaborate with, and asking to understand from their perspective what went good. So what you probably tend to do great. And then the third direction, especially for aspiring designers, could be just to map it into some sort of structures, maybe using the personality tests and seeing, okay, could it be mapped well with this role or not? Does it make sense to me? So I encourage everyone to read that article in the show notes and see if that makes sense for them. Other

Other than that, I think that's it for today. So thank you so much, everybody who tuned in to this episode, who listened it through. If it was helpful, please let us know. And we would really appreciate any reviews on any podcast platform. We're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, any other podcast platforms. And your rating really...

Really encourages us to coming up with more episodes. And if you want to submit more topics, feel free to use Spotify Stickies under the episode on mobile app. Or you can also find the links with anonymous submissions in the show notes. Or just reach out to me, Ioana, or our Instagram, HonestyXTalks. We are always open to your submissions. Thank you so much and have a good day. Bye-bye. Bye, everyone.