I Choose...Presence, Not Perfection with Gabby Reece
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ThirdLove thoughtfully designs solutions for every stage of your life. Visit thirdlove.com and use code podcast 15 for $15 off your order. Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Feeling

Feeling confident in my skin is non-negotiable, and that's why I choose Perricone MD. Their triple retinol renewal face and eye serums are my go-to. I use them every day, every night. I've seen such a difference in my skin. You might be thinking, can I use retinol in the summer? But I'm here to tell you that yes.

You can. I like to apply the retinol serums at night. Then I follow with a moisturizer and I never, ever forget that SPF during the day. Confidence starts with Perricone MD. Visit perriconemd.com and use code JENNY for 40% off your order for a limited time. That's perriconemd.com, code J-E-N-N-I-E. The best AI assistant isn't one that knows the whole world. It's one that knows your world.

A custom assistant built on Watson X with IBM's Granite models can leverage your trusted data, be easily trained on your workflows, and integrate with your apps. It can be tuned to do just what you need, because the more AI knows about your world, the more it can help you do. Learn more at ibm.com slash productivity. IBM. Let's create.

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You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garland. Okay, first of all, how are you? Because I know that both of our youngest just graduated from high school, like our babies. Yeah, I'm good. How was the experience for you? Like, I was all over the place. You were? With feelings and...

memories and all the things. Yeah. I mean, it's always bittersweet, right? And for me to act like there isn't that element because it's also the reflection of time, time passing, where I'm at in my own, how much runway I have left, you know, all of these things. So I think it's a, it's a accumulation of things, but I'm, I'm definitely a person who scans everything.

I try to be as present as possible, but I'm a definite scanner of the future landscape. So, of course, I'm not surprised. You know, it's like she's in 10th grade now. She's in 11th. Right. And she goes to 12th. Right. So there's a part of me that I'm like, this is the honor of...

being able to make it to this stage because I have friends and not getting too morbid that have had children that passed. And so I think what I've learned is it's even like getting older is that realization of, oh yes, and this with its own hardships is actually, you're still have a gift, which is that you're here.

And that they did graduate and that they will be living their lives. So I tend to look at it that way, but also I have slowly packed more things on to my own life so that there was momentum. Mm-hmm.

And places for me to put my energy and focus. Yeah. Otherwise you'd just be standing there going, what do I do now? Yeah. You actually have three daughters just like me. Yes. My oldest is my stepdaughter and that's not to differentiate her, but it's to say that her mom, she has a great mom. So my full time were two girls at home. And then she was my only kid for eight years, the oldest who's going to be 30. Wow. What a bond with the oldest. Yeah.

Yeah, it was interesting. And it's interesting when kids go through things as adults. Right. That's fascinating. When people go, oh, teenagers. And I go, oh, yeah, wait till they're in their 20s. And all of a sudden they are going through their own struggles. Or in her case, maybe she took a sort of a separation. You know, I think a lot of us do that where we go, I would like to live my life more quietly without the input.

of my family and sort of allowing that space. It's really interesting. Yeah.

It is like I say sometimes like I'd rather go back to my girls being in diapers and toddling around because that kind of parenting for me was so natural and so easy. And I just loved every second of it. And then they grow up and then they become young women and everything shifts. There's like now they have all these emotional needs and they need advice on like how

big things in life. And sometimes it's just harder for me with the grown up girls now. Yeah. And it's a hard time. It's a hard time. On top of it. To be breaking out on your own. Yeah. To be a woman. The world is confusing. And I think that it's also hard for us to put ourselves in their place. We can remember being that age, but we're not navigating what they're navigating. We didn't navigate what they are navigating. Right.

So when I say, say my kid has just gone out for the night or wants to go out to whatever club to dance or whatever, I say, oh, no, no, no, no, no. Because I recently, I mean, you know, 30 or 40 years ago did that. And I know what it's like. But I can't say that anymore. I actually don't know what it's like being out there as a young woman. I have a very specific philosophy on this.

and it's only because it got beat into me, not because I arrived at it gracefully, is I've always actually encouraged my girls to,

If they want to go out, for example, I'll use my youngest daughter as an example. She graduated at 17. She won't even be 18 until next year. So she's a younger kid for her grade. But my thing was get it all out of your system kind of while you're under my roof because I'm here and your dad's here.

And we can be here even if it's weird. Because if they're prone to do, let's call them naughty things as parents. Or just experiment. Correct. Yeah. I'd rather it's not the first time out in college and who's looking after you. And so it's for them to, I almost want them to drive fast, but when I'm around in the car still. Because then what I have seen is that

They understand the way the world is. They don't have quite an itch for it. And then maybe they don't have to be so extreme. So if they were going to experiment, maybe they don't have to just lose their minds because it's the first taste of freedom. And, you know, in the moment, it's always scary. Like I let my now 17 year old go to Europe with her friends in her after her sophomore year and after her junior year to Europe with her friends. And yeah, were they in France probably having, you know,

alcohol and other things because that was their choice. I know for real. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, short skirts and the whole nine yards. But then it's like, yeah, but I'm still here and looking after you. And so is your dad. And it doesn't mean to stop you, but it means to be the, the, the set of people that are really unconditionally looking out for you. And so in the moment it's, it's more scary, you know, sleepless nights, like, okay, they got home at what time? And,

But I feel like with girls especially, because I always joke with my husband who is obviously not a girl, don't make good liars. Girls are very conniving and shifty, and I certainly was. You were too? Well... I was a really good liar. Women, I mean, people don't like it, but I think one of our skills...

um, not one of our good skills is I think we can really be deceptive much more than men overall. I mean, obviously are there, you know, worse, you know, the worst males and the worst. Yeah, of course. But I'm saying in general, teenage girls are,

It's a different breed. And so even like the walking out of the house with the outfit on, I used to say to Laird, no, be happy that that's the outfit. Because if that's not the outfit, it's the one in the purse. So keep a beat on what's going on. And that doesn't mean that there aren't times where you go, hey, no, or that skirt's ridiculous. But when you say it, there's a little gravity because...

There is that room to express yourself. Yeah, that's great advice. Would you say that's the advice? That's more advice for parenting. What's the advice you send your girls out into the world with? I don't. I just try to be an example. They know my values and how I conduct myself and how I treat myself and my body. And I always say to them, though, like, what are you selling?

And when you walk out of the house in a certain outfit and my girls, I have smart girls. I'm like, understand the, what you're selling is how you look in this, with this getup, what you say your worth is, is this. But I also remember going through puberty and being like, Oh, new body. We'll call it the new car.

And, you know, like people are looking at my car and noticing my car. And I think young women need to go through that process, hopefully safely, where they start to understand who they are as young women and what that is and the appropriate place when to, you know, when to use those things. Recognize that power. Yeah. And so it was sort of like be a steadfast example. Occasionally, you know, maybe talk about it.

Not to death because I think then they tune you out. And I've also, I also will ask permission like, Hey, can I say something? Um, and then if, cause if I see it, the, the cart, cause I have seen the carts, all of them go off the tracks. I can see it coming. I can feel it coming. I'm watching it. And so then I might accelerate some of the things I'm, I'm trying to say. Mm-hmm.

I mean, like we said, it's so tricky out there. So what do you think your life with Laird is going to be like as an empty nester? Okay. So I heard a great term, not empty nest, open nest. Open nest. Exactly. Yeah. Because it's never, it's never empty. It isn't. And in this group, again, going back to it's a lot harder. I think you'll see sometimes a lot of times kids rebounding.

back home because it is expensive to go out on your own. We could do it, you know, when we were younger. It was affordable. And now I think it's a lot harder and they're assaulted all the time with information and stimulation and all these things. So, you know, luckily Laird and I have worked

or made a pretty conscious effort to keep our relationship alive and dynamic between us as who we are today. Not when we met and had kids and all of a sudden we looked up and here we are 20 years later and like, who the hell are you? So we have a dynamic relationship. And I'm also looking forward to, I've said this where it's like, I'm ready to take my foot off the brake now with my own work because I realized I always have my foot on the gas and

But I also have my foot on the brake. And so now part of that is with Laird and part of that is just for me. Right. And that feels so good. It does. And I don't know if you've experienced this. I get tired of worrying about everybody else. I'm tired of that. It's never going to go away. But there's a part of me that's like, I call it parental fatigue, where you're just like,

The nights you haven't slept, the nights you're worried about this one and that one. And now, of course, they're always in my heart and I'm always concerned about them. But part of it is going to also shift. Is there something that...

You said shift. Things sort of shift and we start to maybe learn lessons from our kids. I know for me, my girls have definitely been very gently and kindly teaching me to let go, you know, and establish balance.

them as their own individuals. And it was definitely challenging for me because they're just my baby birds and I want to keep them so close and I want to help them with everything and I want to be their number one call, you know, but you have to let go. And that, that for me has been really hard. Have you, have your girls taught you any like great lesson about

moving forward? Well, my girls are definitely nothing gentle about them. Oh no. I like that. They're direct. They're sledgehammer girls. Yeah. Well, and just even when they do radical stuff, they don't, they don't, you know, make little mistakes. They just, you know, break shit. Like they're, they're very much like Laird and I, noncompliant. And if I'm going to make a mistake, oh yeah, watch this one. And so I have been tempered greatly. Yeah.

And people talk about faith or acceptance, not living in what can happen. And what they have shown me is, yes, it lurks. The shadow of worry will lurk. But I realize it's really of no use. And so I have tried my best and I fail. But to be disciplined in, I'm not going to worry about it.

until I have something to worry about because I don't want to live in that state. It's not even productive. And you can do that in your life. So I'm just trying to expand that idea to parenting harder.

But I realize me worrying is doing what good? Just giving us wrinkles and lost sleep. Yeah, and we're annoying. And then our antenna, our vibration is kind of scratchy and halter skelter. And I'm not calling in the things that I really want in my life. And so I just feel like they have really shown me that I'm not in charge.

And I'm, I am here to love them. I can throw down boundaries. I can put up some rules, but ultimately when they talk about having faith, if I say, oh, I have faith, these are the moments that I get to practice that and say, hey, they had, there is a plan for their life. I don't see it. Uh, it worries me. And yes, I have the faith to let them go. Absolutely.

Then that faith really gets tested. And I think, oh my gosh, am I an idiot to have faith? My daughter was just in Las Vegas and she got home. And then the news came out that there was a shooting in the exact restaurant she had been in at the Bellagio. And those are the moments where you're like, okay, that faith is really working. I'm so grateful. And like, you just, I don't even know how to express gratitude.

my gratitude in knowing that she's protected somehow you know magically and sometimes they're not sometimes they're not and we weren't and we're here and we made it yeah and and it's listen it's called being a parent that's I think really what it is and that's why all parents laugh at their teenagers that have all the answers and know everything because in your mind you think ha ha

Yeah. Wait till you see. Have you ever pulled out the, you'll see what it's like when you have your own children? Not too much. What I have done, because my girls would scoff at me for sure if I said that. Yeah. It didn't go well for me. Yeah. They'd scoff at me. Sometimes if they're, I know I'm not getting through, but it feels really important. I'll say, can you please look at me? And I go, can you consider yourself warned?

And they're like, yes. I go, okay, can you say that to me? You consider yourself warned. And then that's all you, what am I going to do? What am I have a club every day with the same whining, nagging, blah, blah, blah. It's like, look at me. I'm saying something. If I speak wrong,

Really, as seldom as I can control myself, can you understand that because I believe this is important information for you. So it's so beneficial not to be that nagging mom, that hover. Everybody's different. Yeah. Everybody has to do it how they do it. One thing I have learned, there's sort of universal principles to a lot of things in life.

But when it comes to parenting, it's like moms know their kids. They know the dynamic. They know themselves, their cellular download. It's like a million variables. So I think everybody has to do it the way they have to do it. So true, I guess. Yeah, because there's no one way to get through it. No, and we're all so different. And so maybe one kid, something works and another kid, it doesn't. And

For one parent that works, it's just, it's that dance. Yeah. You got to figure out that dance before. Oh my God. It's really hard to figure out. I figure by the time my youngest is 25, I'll be like, wait a second, I have an idea about how to parent. Right? Yeah.

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Visit thirdlove.com and use code podcast15 for $15 off your order. Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Feeling confident in my skin is non-negotiable. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Their triple retinol renewal face and eye serums are my go-to. I use them every day, every night. I've seen such a difference in my skin. You might be thinking, can I use retinol in the summer? But I'm here to tell you that yes.

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Well, marriage is hard. I know. I've had a couple of them. Oh, good. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. It's one of the things, though, I admire about you is that you and your husband, Laird, who is a pro surfer, like beyond, right? So that's one thing. But you guys have been married for 27 years. Yeah. We've been married a long time. Wow. Yeah. That is amazing.

Congratulations, first of all. Well, listen, I'd like to say that we're so smart. I think we got really fortunate that we found each other and we made it through a couple rough patches. And I really now that I've been with Laird this year, I will have been with Laird for 30 years. I realized, again, we're not that smart and he's a gift to me.

You know, he, I was lucky or fortunate in it. You know, that's another thing about marriage. I say is there's a lot of ways that six, what success looks like could be 10 years, could be five, could be, you know, until someone passes away. And so I never think the success of a marriage is like you stayed together and that was that it's like, Hey, we did this for this time. We learned these things, whatever it is. And so I just think, um,

for whatever reason, at least for today, Laird and I, we can dance pretty good. I love that. You've both been open about how giving each other space and freedom has been integral in the success of your relationship. How do you

Keep your sense of identity. You're a mom to three girls. That's a lot. You are a wife and you have a partner and you're also your own individual. Like how do you keep your individuality? How do you not get eaten alive by the process? Exactly. Being all these things for other people. Yeah. All the hats. I was, I had a pretty robust sense of self at 25 and that's the age I met Laird.

So I think that was helpful. I had some momentum about like what I liked and what I like to do. And I had a career and I made my own living and things like that. But what I will say is that it's pretty hard to do everything.

But it's something that in these couple spaces I'm ruthless about, which means no matter what. And it's such an interesting dance because as I get older, I'm actually trying to lose identity. Right. I'm trying not to be defined by my roles. I'm trying not to be like my ego and I do this and this is who I am. And, you know, all these labels and titles, you know, like, oh, actress or athlete or whatever the things are. Mm hmm.

So simultaneously of trying to be more wholly and fully who I am within my sense of self as a human being, I'm trying to offload being attached to, well, this is what I do and I'm that mother and I'm his wife. So it's this weird thing of doing both a lot and stripping down to like

I guess for lack of a better word, your essence. And not allowing other people, including Laird or my daughters, to infringe so deeply on me that I lose that. So I guess a little bit of selfishness is maybe what it comes down to.

I mean, I talk a lot about choosing yourself. I choose me. I want women to choose themselves. It's like everything I'm all about. And there are oftentimes when I come up on that word, that selfish word, and there are some people that are just really uncomfortable choosing themselves or allowing themselves to choose themselves. And they see it as an act of selfishness. How do you feel about that? I think it's your duty.

I really think it's your obligation to yourself and to the life that you're here to live. And luckily, I can understand where a lot of people don't get this idea that it's okay. Because think about when you're a young woman, especially. Yeah.

to be nice. Right. My least, probably my least favorite word I'd switch out. I'd swap out and put kind for nice all day long. Oh, well that's not nice. And don't say that. That's not nice. Oh, that's not nice acting. So we've wrapped up, I think more so than men as women, that to be a good person, which I think most of us are hoping to try to be, that we have to be nice or we have to please people. And coming, I think from sport, um,

you sort of learn all other gears and languages, which is like, hey, part of this isn't personal. So if you and I are playing against each other, it's like my goal and your goal is to win. Well, someone's not going to be happy. It has nothing to do with how I feel about you or how I am as a human being. It's like, this is what I'm doing. And so if a woman's in the workplace and she is in the position where maybe she's the boss,

Part of that job is going to probably make people feel uncomfortable or they're not going to like you because you're going to say, hey, here is the standard at our business. This is what we're doing. So I would just encourage people to...

not farm that out to the world to say, well, I'm just going to do what I'm told. So I'll go to school. Maybe I'll meet somebody that I'll get married. Maybe I'll have a kid, whatever that is. And then I'm going to be somehow pissed that I did what I was told and then I got left behind and everybody's still doing their thing. But what about me? And so within it, that's why I'm such an advocate of taking care of yourself because I think it makes holding that space for yourself a little easier. Yeah.

Because you feel a little better, your mind's a little more clear and you can go, yeah, that's not going to work for me. And you do these tweaks all along the way. But it isn't easy. Listen, there's days I do feel swallowed up by my schedule and my family and my work.

but I course correct really quickly because I know in the long run, it's not only going to be better for everybody, but guess who else it's going to be better for? Me. That's right. And that's on us because I think with women sometimes too, we take on this like very caregiver thing, which is great, but it can easily turn to victimhood, which I think we should definitely try to avoid. What do you mean by victimhood?

Well, cause then it's not fair. And then there he's playing golf this weekend and they laughed and I did the, it's like, listen, if we get ourselves in those situation, even if we were well intended, it's still on us. You got yourself there. Yeah. And so I know it's like a really brutal thing because you're doing, again, you're following the rules, you're being of service, you're doing all these things that you think are the right thing. And then somehow fast forward a few years and

And when you really listen to how you speak or your vernacular, sometimes it's connected to victimhood. And one thing I am really intense about is I am not here to be the victim of any relationship or my story. Mm-hmm.

And shit's unfair everywhere. And that is true. And that's just kind of the way it is. But it's like that for men. It's like that for everybody. We just sometimes don't realize it because they speak up. I want to go do this. It's going to be fun for me or da, da, da, da, da. And the fact that they don't have biological responsibility of being pregnant and giving birth and nursing and trying to juggle all that, their brain doesn't work the same way.

So they have a different story than we do most, most times. Yeah. I mean, it's just a different vocabulary. It's a different, it's a different brain, different brain. Yeah. We all, we live in a world where everybody's trying to make everybody the same. And one thing that I have learned through being in, you know, movement, fitness, wellness, whatever the terms are now, there is certain biology that if I can understand my biology where it's working for me, maybe where it's not.

Like, for example, advocating for myself or rocking the boat is actually typically for women less biological. So I have to learn, oh, I don't have that skill. That doesn't come as easy for me. So I'm going to develop it. I'm going to try it. It's going to be uncomfortable. I'm going to piss some people off. It's worth it. It's always worth it. Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Feeling uncomfortable.

Feeling confident in my skin is non-negotiable. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Their triple retinol renewal face and eye serums are my go-to. I use them every day, every night. I've seen such a difference in my skin. You might be thinking, can I use retinol in the summer? But I'm here to tell you that yes.

You can. I like to apply the retinol serums at night. Then I follow with a moisturizer and I never, ever forget that SPF during the day. Confidence starts with Perricone MD. Visit perriconemd.com and use code JENNY for 40% off your order for a limited time. That's perriconemd.com, code J-E-N-N-I-E. Your business deploys AI pilots everywhere.

But are they going anywhere? Or are they stuck in silos, exhausting resources, unable to scale? Maybe you don't need hundreds of AI pilots. You need a holistic strategy. IBM has 65,000 consultants with Gen AI expertise who can help you design, integrate, and optimize AI solutions. So you're not just deploying AI, you're scaling it across your business. Learn more at ibm.com slash consulting. IBM.

Let's create. This July 4th, celebrate freedom from spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with Anabay, the only machine-washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anabay's pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high-performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic,

high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime it's a sofa that adapts to your life now through july 4th get up to 60 off site wide at washablesofas.com every order comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee if you're not in love send it back for a full refund no return shipping no restocking fees every penny back

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You speak in your book about how you thought that you had to suck it up when it came to your relationship and someone, usually your spouse, is being an ass. Yeah. And you said that you probably learned that from being an athlete and coming up in that world. I'm not an athlete and that's one of the things that I've done too. I stopped speaking up and I didn't want to rock the boat like you just said. Yeah.

Keep the peace. Can you tell me what you've learned about communication in a relationship? Yes. You know, listen, it takes courage, the courage I didn't have. Because also what was tricky about, let's say, my dynamic is I was very stoic. So it could be perceived as strength, but it was really a fear of being able to make, like, I didn't want to deal with, like, if there was going to be a hassle or, you

I was going to show my vulnerability of what I really wanted and needed. So there was a couple things wrapped up. So it looked quite strong, but it was really me just being like, oh. And what I have learned is, because I got myself into some uncomfortable situations by not speaking up, was I'd rather deal with 10 minutes, 30 minutes, couple of hours of conflict. It doesn't have to be radical. It's also how you present. You know, you can say to somebody,

It's not an attack on you. I just got to share my feelings. So sometimes people have to realize you can be in a relationship and the other person is not wrong because you have feelings about something that you don't like. And so I think learning those two things together more direct, but also learning how to position things.

And say it in a way that I'm not coming here to attack you. I'm coming here to share with you. But I'm doing it in a way that's also maybe in a language you're going to understand. So typically I do it sooner than later. So I'm not hysterical. So you're not like it doesn't fester. Because that's what happens, right? We flip our lids and we finally say it. And then the other person's like, whoa. Can't handle that.

It's just like, what? I don't even know what this is or where this is coming from. So, and, but sometimes that harshness, like, cause I do that and I'll say it like really direct and I can see for a second Laird's eyebrows kind of go, Ooh, because they're not used to that either. Right. So it's this funny thing where you kind of got to pick a side and

and deal with it. Now, if someone has to talk to their partner, what I would say that is quite nice is you could go for a walk. They even talk about it with teenagers. You don't have to always be face to face. You could be walking side by side and just say, Hey, you know, I've been going through this, or I've been thinking about this, and I just want to share it with you and see where it goes. And usually we don't give them enough credit

That they could work with us on a lot of this. Right. We assume, I think I probably assumed younger, younger me, that this is going to make a big thing and he's going to be defensive or he's not going to see it the way I see it.

But I haven't even talked about it to him. Yeah. I almost got divorced for that because I didn't say anything, didn't say anything, didn't say anything. And then I left. And then that created a whole other set of complications. And then I'll never forget. And I've shared this before because Laird is like the best person to say uncomfortable things to. No problem. Yeah.

He could be like, oh, okay. Like he can think about his job. Yeah. Nope. It's, it's, it's stressful. It's feels threatening. He's totally calm is he said to me, well, why didn't you say anything? Yeah.

And I thought, oh yeah. And by the way, if your partner can't handle it, that's kind of their problem. And if you do it round and round after a while, you might be like, maybe we're not meant to be in this partnership or wow, amazing. We can grow together. We've learned new things about each other. There's greater intimacy. I can show you my cards and you can be like, yeah, okay, I'll take them. So it's, I mean, you might as well get to it.

I mean, you might as well get to it because you're going to have to get to it with somebody if you want to be in a relationship. It's going to come up. It's going to keep coming up until you fix it, get it right. Yeah. Or just get it better. Get it better. Get it better. I mean, that's been the challenge of my life, relationships. And I, too, am a very direct person. And it is – some people can handle it and some people can't. And I never mean anything by it. It's just –

who I am. You know, how I... So I do work at softening the delivery of things. I do think about that. I do think about my husband as an individual now, not like, you know, my therapist that I had a while back taught me about circle, square, circle, where you're two circles and then there's that square in the middle. That's the relationship. And you're putting stuff into it, but the lines aren't crossed. There's no like...

you know, and they, the rings for a wedding, you always see like the intertwined rings. I hate that. You complete me. Yeah. I don't, we're not, yeah, we are not one. No, we're not. We have a thing going, but we're not one. Yeah. And there's these moments where sort of we're colliding and doing these things together as one. You know, it's, it's interesting too, the women have the impulse to mother,

So we're always trying to sort of get our partner to be how we think they should be. So if we're saying, hey, we are two individuals, we also have to be willing to be like, and I accept your loud talking, inappropriate jokes, whatever. So I think the other thing was very helpful for me is I have a husband who will not be mothered.

So it really got me off the hook from that impulse. It broke that pattern for you. Yeah, because I was like, oh, we should all be like this, you know? And Laird was like, yeah, no, I had a mom. And I was like...

Got it. Noted. Yeah. Which was great for me because it liberated me from even thinking that I was going to spend time and energy doing that. What sign are you? I'm a Capricorn. Okay. My mom. Oh, sorry. Is that okay? Yeah, it's good. She's a great lady. We both have three girls. We both...

Almost got divorced. Aries. Okay. Oh. The directness. Yeah. But it's so feminine and sweet. It's so wrapped up. See, when I'm direct, it seems like, oh, you know my size and my thing. You're tall and intimidating. Yeah, so I really have to be careful. Yours is so shiny and sparkly voice. Thank God. It's great. But it does come across as...

Abrasive to some people people that take things personally. Yeah, I don't take things personally and I try not to that's one of the why do you think you Don't take them personally. Well, I actually read I learned it from a book. I learned it from the four agreements Oh, yeah, and it's one of the the core the things that I live by and I try to remember all the time It's got nothing to do with me It has everything to do with the other person what they're going through how they're feeling what their day has been like and

And it's important to remember that before you speak sometimes. Yeah, I think being direct doesn't mean not being thoughtful. Right. I am very thoughtful about what I'm going to say. And I will even wait for a fertile ground. I won't just be like, oh, we're in traffic and we have 9,000 things going. This is the time. So I want to be clear. I'm also very...

you know, thoughtful in when is the best time. I do that a lot too now where I never used to do that. I used to be so indulgent, self-indulgent and like do me and how I needed to do it and when I needed to do it. Yeah. But now I'm much more thoughtful about is this a good time for both of us to have this conversation? Yeah. And then having to control the ability to wait. Yeah. Whereas I don't think I had that for a very long time. Yeah. And I think when you

are younger sometimes you do wait too long. Right. And the idea is I'm going to enter all of these conversations with an idea of finding a solution, not in trying to be right. And I think when we're younger, because we just sort of are getting our voice, it makes perfect sense that the only way I'm going to be heard is if I'm right. Right.

And so as you get older, you like, oh yeah, man, right, wrong. It's like, it's all in the gray. Let's get to the solution. And if I need to apologize for part of this too, I can live with that. Yep. So interesting. I just had a big argument with one of my daughters, which is very rare for us. And my ego was flaring. It was like,

you've got to see it my way. And she was very set in, you've got to see it my way. And ultimately we were just like, let's walk away. She said, I need space from you. I was like, ouch. But then I thought, okay, she needs space. I'm proud of her for saying that. I'm proud of her for like taking care of herself. But it's so interesting to

As this version of me having those conflicts with people that mean more to me than anything and anyone in the world. Yeah. And I'm able to just kind of step out of it. Yeah. And watch it. Yesterday, I wasn't proud of what ended up happening between the two of us. And I've had a lot of time to think about it. And so I feel really good about going back to her and saying, hey-

I see where you're coming from. I want you to know I heard you and there's got to be a middle, you know, let's fix this. Well, you're modeling to them. And also it's really powerful to let another person who's saying what they really think and feel and, and, and saying, and yes, you're right. So that the next time they want to say what their opinion is, what they think and feel is,

They're not worried that they're going to be shut down. And ultimately, you're doing your job as their mom, which is to send them into the world being willing to stand up for what they think and feel, whether they're right or wrong, not to be silent. Because speaking your mind is right.

It's always right. It's always right. Yeah, it is. And to be open, right? Like that's what it is. It's the dialogue. It's the learning. It's seeing it from another person's point of view. It's taking a new input and being like, oh, well, you know, I thought this, but now with that information, maybe I can adapt because that's where people get in trouble is, well, no, this is how it is. It's like, okay, but if we're not growing and changing and changing our mind forever, I think we're dead. That sounds pretty boring. Yeah.

Yeah, but that's what a lot of people do. Yeah. A lot of people. A lot of people.

You were saying that you almost got a divorce. How long were you separated? Because Dave and I almost got a divorce too. We were separated for, I call it 12 months. Yeah. A good year. Yeah. And the divorce papers were ready. It was happening. Really? Yeah. And then one day it wasn't happening. Like we came to this aha moment individually and it just, I don't know what happened, but it just worked again. And I think that's so interesting. I'm curious. Yeah.

So when you do like your anniversary number, did you count that year or not? Because I don't count that year. We've been married for 10 years, but I call it nine. Oh, no, I count it all. Hell yeah. I count it all. Because that was some hard times. I count it. I was never more married than when I was almost getting divorced. What do you mean? Like, you know. Well, you know, and it was early in our marriage. It was 25 years ago. Mm-hmm.

So it was the first few years of our marriage. I was not willing to be vulnerable. And I had never really learned the safety of a relationship. I didn't learn it from my parents. And so I was always a lone kind of wolf, even though I was married.

And it was Laird who, there was two things that happened that were really poignant. We were broken up and Laird came to the house. He was back in Hawaii. I was in California. And he came to get snowboarding gear. And he's very generous with his emotions and his affection and love and like really there.

And I remember he was going down a staircase and the staircase is kind of round at our house. And so he was there and then he rounded the corner and he wasn't. And I realized, oh, he was being generous. He has the choice to be that present, that loving, that kind. And now that I'm not reciprocating, he has then taken that back because it's not appropriate. And we went through some stuff and Laird said to me,

you know, do you want, and I had divorce paper. He said, drop divorce papers. That was him being chivalrous. And you know, in California, you have to wait a little bit. That's why we weren't. And he's like, do you want, are you really, you want to throw this all away? Or do you really want to give it a, do you want to try? He was the one who was way more courageous. And I thought,

And then seeing the difference of somebody who could be so loving and saying like, oh, you don't want this. Then I'll, I have to, I'm not just going to let it sit here like an idiot. I'm going to move on. I remember thinking, oh, that's right. There is strength in being loving, not weakness. How did you come to allowing yourself to be vulnerable in a relationship? You just realize what's the point if you're not going to risk. And, and,

And it's all scary. Loving somebody, having kids, going for a dream, trying, you know, starting a business like it's all has a risk element. But what's the point? And so when that was so clear to me, I thought, why would you half-ass it? And you have somebody right on the other side of you who doesn't half-ass it. And most people do.

And you will really like him. He has all these traits, like he's honest and hardworking and he's smart and funny and like all these things. And I was like, you might really be blowing it and missing an opportunity of a lifetime that you may never get again. And so I had an awakening of like,

because, you know, my dad died when I was five and I, my mom left when I was two and came back when I was seven. This is not bagging on her. But the point is, is sometimes when that happens, when you're young, you don't learn how to feel safe. And I thought, yeah, but you're not a seven-year-old kid anymore. You know, you're a 30-year-old woman. You're, and it's like a, you're playing an old game of

But you're in a different life. And so it was really this idea of why would I hold on to that story? And why would I not live in the actual moment that I'm in with the person that I am with? And it's uncharted waters. I don't have the language. Maybe I could do better. That's very inspiring for anybody listening, I think, who's struggling with that, being vulnerable. Yeah. But pick a person. No one's perfect. We're going to disappoint each other. Mm-hmm.

But pick a person that you can really show them and they won't hold it against you or bring it up later. You know, that's the great thing. I had a partner and I have taken on the trait myself where I could show him all the ugly stuff besides the good stuff. And he'd be like, okay. And it was safe. And so I try to do that with my kids. I definitely try to do that with my friends is be that person that someone can really reveal themselves.

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I want to go on to talking about entrepreneurship with you. Okie doke. Because I can tell this is something we also have in common, a drive. Yes. A strong drive to be who we are and be successful and make a difference where we can. Yeah. You know, and I think when people hear that, it feels daunting, right? Like I could hear someone else's story and think, oh, should I be like that? No, you shouldn't.

You should figure out like kind of what turns you on. And I used to joke with my friends. I used to teach a dollar class on Kauai three days a week. It was a dollar, probably 80 to 100 people would come to the class. And I'm like, listen, if I baked cookies, I can make you cookies. But this is kind of what I can do. This is how I can contribute. This is what I'm passionate about. This is what excites me.

So this is what I'm doing. And so I think the idea of really drilling into who you are, what would you authentically want to spend your time doing? What problems do you want to be solving? If it's a product, for example, would you wear it for me? Would I eat it or drink it or use it? And as long as you keep lining up those things, I think even in...

In the idea of being successful, you already are. We measure success by, okay, this, you know, what are your margins? How many millions have you sold? How many SKUs? You know, EBITDA, like where, how deep do you want to go? But for me, the idea that I even get the chance to spend my time doing it, there's a success in that. And, um, and so I've, I've learned to really trust that over the years. Mm-hmm.

The world knows you as a former volleyball player, right? I've always been curious as an athlete when you work and train so long for something to perfect your game and then it's time to retire from the sport. What goes into making that choice? How do you face that? I think for a lot of athletes, it's your body. Just physically? Yeah. You just kind of know, well, I don't maybe have the juice. I think for me, it was a combination of

My body and I knew I wanted to build other things and I knew those take time because anyone who talks about being an entrepreneur, let's just start at five years.

Right. Everyone's like, oh, I'll put together a business plan and, you know, family and friends round. And then in six months, it's like, yeah, no, just to start. It's five years. Kind of. Yeah, it can be for sure. So what's the haul and how long is that going to take? So I knew I had so many other things that I was going to be interested in doing. So that combination and then and then also starting a family really helped.

informed my decisions. But going back to earlier of I sort of scan the horizon, you know there's an end. Now, I will say if I was a tennis player and I was really good, I would have just done that till the wheels came off because it's a big platform. The time spent

versus the return, it makes a lot of sense. Beach volleyball, it doesn't. So there's the over practical side of me that was like measuring all of that out and saying, yes, I love this game. I'm going to have a lot of life to live after this. What do I think I want to be doing?

And I have a lot of ways I want to express myself. And so you better start creating some momentum in some other ways as well. So I think that that really informed my decisions. It was all of the variables. You know, if I was a guy and I was playing baseball, yeah, do it till you're 38 if you can. And then you'll do the next thing. And you could fund your own project by then. Yeah.

Beach volleyball is just a different deal. It's a small platform. Right. How old were you when you decided to start? Well, I officially was done at about 31 or 2. I did come back one more time at 37. Wow. I was pregnant with my youngest daughter. Oh, my God. I remember this. It was great. Really sexy. No, it's a moment. Playing pregnant, you're just like, really? Because they were going to try to bring back this discipline that I loved very much for and for beach volleyball.

And it's a natural game for me. And I thought, yes, I would love to see the next group get to play this discipline. So I'll come and play for a little bit. But yeah, pretty much that long ago. Wow. Lives ago. And your body, did you feel that your body was like, uh, no.

No, I could handle it. Uh, cause I was trained, so I was in shape. I was just pregnant. Uh, it's a little extra. Yeah. It looked like I had a couple of beers. I don't really, I'm not a drinker. So the joke was like, Oh Gabby, she's like really been letting it out, you know? Um, and, but, uh,

No, I, I, my body was, was fine. And your brain, you know, you've done it so many times. Your first step isn't as quite as good, but you sort of know. Yeah. 37, you still got it going on.

Absolutely. I think women and men for that matter, especially a game like beach volleyball, it's not the NFL where you get taking hits or gymnastics or something. Beach volleyball is weirdly like you're getting stronger because of the surface and the impact is less because of the sand. So there's a lot of room in there for your experience. And as long as you stay in shape. Right. Yeah. The endurance of beachball.

Beach volleyball. Yeah, yeah. Volleyball in the sand. Yeah. Gets me every time. I'm really loving this concept that I'm hearing from you of scanning the horizon. I think there's something there. And I think that's such a good tip, hack, whatever you want to call it, advice to give other women, other people. Well, not too much. You know, it's like this thing about like my middle daughter, who's very wise. We were talking about my youngest daughter.

And how, you know, she's always trying to make everything perfect. She's a very smart kid. And also you're in a group of, you know, TikTok and Instagram where they're all trying to make everything perfect, every event perfect. It's all monumental. And it's the veneer of it. And my middle daughter goes, doesn't she know the only perfect moment is when you're present? And so there within lies that, you know, rack focus of just checking in.

you know, every day, who am I today? Am I heading in the direction? Are my relationships heading in the direction that I want, that it feels like still represents me? Is my job doing that? All these things. And then kind of living, being present. And then every once in a while looking up,

Because you have to have a target if you're orienting the ship somewhere. And it's like, yeah, I don't think I want to go there. I think I need to do certain things, whether it's change my thinking or my daily habits or practices to kind of set the course a little bit, a couple degrees over here, over here and only use it as an indication because a bullseye often is very hard to hit. Right.

So I often think it's building a sort of, I always say head that way. You know, it's like even with health when everyone's like, well, I'm doing my macros and I go, Oh, give me a break. Like you're, you can't, you're not, you haven't gotten off the couch yet. And you're talking to me about this, you know, like my heart rate variability. It's like, no, let's just head that way. Let's walk.

Let's eat real food. Then if you get really good, okay, we can start to tighten it up. And then when we're in the position of a bullseye where we can take a real shot, then okay, get the bullseye. But I think we are always setting up bullseyes and

uh, way too soon. Yeah. Way too soon. And it can be disappointing, disheartening. We never make it. We give up. So I think, you know, head that way. Like today I'm going to be, you know, thoughtful or kinder to my partner or whatever, you know, not all this monumental. Every day, every morning is a, is a new opportunity to go that way. Just have that way. Yeah. Yeah. So true. So,

And unless you break it down to that simple formula, it's all too complicated. It is. We call it majoring in the minors. You know, it's like people get like all the, and they use that actually as an excuse to not do the thing. Not do the thing. Because the thing is hard and the thing is unknown because we don't really know. And sometimes head that way is a lot more achievable and doable than

Because it's like, well, I don't have to know, but I could, I sort of have a sense that if I did these couple little things, that would be one step in that direction. But you believe in goals? Like, oh, yeah. I mean, I'm a... Do you see it? Do you imagine you achieving the goal in your mind? And then you go for it?

I talk a lot about we all have a whisper, a personal whisper. I had it when I was a kid. I followed my whisper through my life and it has led me to the places. So it shows up usually first as a whisper as like, hey, this would be interesting to do or call that person or do you want to build that thing? And then it's like, OK, the other part of that is learn enough about what you're trying to do.

First, then create the strategy because you don't know enough about it to actually create a real strategy. So whether it's a business or getting in shape or whatever it is, it's like move, you know, kind of move that way, start to get a sense of what it is.

And then you'll be informed enough to really start to lock in a real strategy to make a, not these whimsical, like I'm going to do this thing. It's like, well, what does that mean? And what's the first step? And what's the second step? And what's the third? And what's the 50th? And sometimes you have no shot of even knowing the ninth or 10th until you take the first or second. Exactly. So you got to get pushed by your whisper.

You know, never be too proud to do like the junk work. I always say I've been a rookie because that's very sports oriented. We used to say when I went to Florida State to play volleyball, the freshmen all carried the medical kit. So when you traveled, it was like the kind of the crap job. You know, that's what rookies do.

And then when you're not a rookie, the next group does it. And so the other thing I've learned about being an entrepreneur or starting new or a new dream is always be willing to do the grunt work that we're never above it. Well, I was really good at that. It's like, yeah, but you're not doing that anymore. You're doing this and you're at the bottom. And when you get the comfort with that and knowing like also the power of your own, like I pick up the phone and call myself.

If I want to meet somebody or talk about an idea or learn something. I thought you, I was like, wait, you call yourself. How do you do that? But you're saying you, I will pick up the phone and just be like, Hey, like you were never above or too big or too prideful. Now then there comes another point in my career in certain areas where it's like, that's not worth my time. My time will be better spent over here. So I can have some, yes. But sometimes part of learning,

the thing and how to make the real plan and the real strategy and creating the real goal is you got to do it too. Absolutely. Yeah. I love that. That's just, that's it. That's the real deal right there. Yeah. And then when you really get deep into your businesses, then you have much smarter people around you.

Because I'm not going back to business school. I'm not going to run. I'm not going to be the CEO and, you know, worry about manufacturing. So it's like in and out. And you go, oh, I'm out of my depth. But the business has matured. So now we need some grownups. And so it has all these phases. Yeah, absolutely. How do you, you spoke about the whisper. How do you hear your whisper? Like when do you hear it? And

Because sometimes the world is so noisy. That's where my physical fitness practice comes in place because then I stay in tune with how I'm feeling. And then I just check in. And so every day, whether it's the shower or I'm alone in my car, I just kind of, you know, hit the flywheel. How's my family? They're always first. How are my girls? Mm-hmm.

And then it goes to like, what's happening in work? What's not happening? Do I need to kick someone in the ass? Do I need to kick myself in the ass? Who haven't I called back? Why haven't I called them back? And just always, and pull the weeds. You know, Laird has really taught me that where I don't let things happen.

go, go and go. It's sort of like when that weed shows up, I just pull it right away. Whether it's like, I don't really want to work with that person or I really need to call them and ask for help. Whatever that is, I try to do it quickly because then it leaves room to hear the whisper instead of you get buried under your own to-do list or other things. So I also try to be pretty on it with those things. But the whisper is your instincts, right?

And your whisper is the dreamer in you. And just let that person thrive and live and trust them. And why not have some audacity? Yeah. You know, and that's why we got to let go of the identity part. Because then we never give ourselves permission to be something new and different. Right. I'm not that person. I don't do that. I can't do that. Right. It's like, no, you can't yet.

And, and let yourself, if you're sincere, you know, if it's just, well, because so-and-so is doing it or that seems to be popular, that's not usually a good reason. That for me was the, one of the biggest deterrents of going for the thing. Other people were doing it and I was like, okay, they're great. Everything's, they're doing great. I don't, I don't need to get in that space or do what I really want to do.

It's very, very hard to find the whisper though sometimes, but you're right. It's in the in-between spaces and it's so important to pull the weeds. I love that too. Yeah, you got to pull them. It's like when you have a little kid that's like, let's say three or four, right? And you have a friend visiting, whoever it is. I always used to say to my girls, my youngest daughter is at times not the most polite person I've ever met. She's very polite if you take her to a restaurant. Right, out in the world.

But if someone comes over and she's not good at small talk and she doesn't want to feel, she doesn't feel like it. Right. So I used to say, Hey, listen, just the basics of your manners, just the basics. Like, Hey, how are you? Nice to see you. You can walk away. I don't care. But the other thing I learned is if my kids did not lean into somebody, even if I love the person, I never was like, give them a hug because the whole thing is to teach everybody young, listen to your whisper.

Because you're getting messages all the time about the world around you and what works for you. And what we do sometimes, whether it's in school or as their parents, is we teach them not to trust that because we're so worried about how it looks or they'll be like, oh, you know, that Hamilton kid is, you know, kind of rude or not well-raised. Right.

I'll take it. Yeah. And you start to believe in yourself. Well, no. And it's scary every second, right? The whole time you're like, I don't know. I hope this works out, but I feel compelled. I got to go, you know? And so I think it's, it's knowing too that yes, you never know for sure. No, everything's a risk. Love, loving your children endlessly. Yeah. It's all risks. Starting a new business, asking for help, all of that.

But the other thing, and people have talked about this, why not? And why not you? That's what I said to myself. Yes. They're doing it. Why not me? Yeah. As long as we're genuine about our reasons why, even if we say to ourselves, I just want to make money. Okay. That's genuine and honest. Right. If people, I love when people go like, I'm trying to do good in the world, but really their reasons they want to make money or get attention. I'm like, listen, just be honest about whatever it is. And it could be all of the, all three, right?

But I love when people feel like they have to house it in. Oh, well, this is going to be, it's like, okay. But why you're doing it is you've whiteboarded this. You see that there's space here. You think you can make money here, but the question is, do you really believe it? And are you willing to do it when it really sucks? Because doing, especially businesses, you know, new businesses, um,

It's a bit of a lift. Have you had to do that? Have you had to make decisions you probably wouldn't have just for security or money or forward movement or whatever it is? Not too often. Laird and I both are hardwired to think a little bit like this. Laird always says the only time to say no is when you can't. The only time it really counts is when you can't, when you can't afford it, when you can't whatever. Mm-hmm.

So I've really tried to adhere to my compass. And even when I was like, oh, I'd really like to take that job. It's like, that's not really me. And so. Yeah. You gotta listen to that. It is. And you just know that gets baked into your cake and your big cake. Yeah.

And it's always going to be better in the long run for you. And everybody has a different gauge of success. So for some people, it's like, well, zeros is the success. For me, it's I can look at myself in the mirror. I can look at Laird and their eyeballs and I know my kids know. And so I start there.

Yeah. And then, then yeah, I want to win. I want my companies to thrive and make money and grow and do all that. But we always say not at any cost. That's true. Yeah. We want to win. We're just hardwired. Yeah. I want to win, but I don't want to win and not play by the rules because I tell my girls this play by the big rules. Right. So tell the truth, work hard,

Treat people with kindness. Whatever those big rules really are. And then break every other rule. Doesn't matter. Right? Go for it. Yeah. Go for it. But always play by the big rules. Because I think we do need a North Star.

Because it's easy to, then you'll just be all over the place. So create your North Star, whatever that is for you. So I think it's like our company. Like, so for example, Lear Superfood, we have guardrails. And one of the guardrails is we don't use natural flavors. Right. So when we can't make a vanilla creamer because we can't get the flavor right. And there was a bad crop in Madagascar of real vanilla because it was, and now it's too expensive. Mm-hmm.

Well, we're going to, are we going to use natural flavors? It's a really easy decision. And let me tell you what the most popular flavor of creamers is. Vanilla. So we were in business for five or six years before we could do vanilla. So that's the point. You have your guardrails. So when it gets, you get squeezed, you know what you're doing and not doing. It just makes it easier. Yeah. You're staying true to your standards, your morals. So, so good. Before I let you go. Yes. Gabby Reese, what was your last I choose me moment? It's a great question.

It can be big. It can be small. I'm more of like a small I choose me like person.

And usually it has to do weirdly with like beauty things, like getting my hair done, which cause I'm, I put all that stuff way back on. I don't, it's not that I don't care, but I mean, it is what it is, right? Like even I'm 55, like I am, I look how I look. It is what it is. So it's, when I say I choose me, it's like my fitness for me is my, I choose me and it's, you know, absolutely often. Um,

But I also know when I go too far, I just tell everyone, I'm out. I'm going to get my hair done. I'm going to get my nails done. I don't apologize. I don't wiggle around. I just look at everybody like, that's what I'm doing. And so, yeah, I think that that's... Like self-care. Yeah. And just if it gets too far, I go, why is it too far? Because I haven't taken care of it. But really, it's the training. The training. My training is...

the I choose me every week. Absolutely. Yeah. You're a great role model. You are inspiring. I feel like we are twin flames somehow. I want to be friends with you, but I just want to say thank you so much for driving to the studio and being here today and being so open and honest. Well, thank you. And I, uh, I drove here because I do really appreciate your message. And I think, you know, I always say like all hands on deck,

Mm hmm.

If you're going to be doing all these things for everybody, that it is important to make sure you're taking care of yourself. Yeah. Thank you. Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Feeling...

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Thank you.

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