I Choose...To Stop Overthinking with Dr. Jenny Taitz
42:32 Share

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I am all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive technology.

clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

Hey,

y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season two shares stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks. Let's do something about it.

We get paid to serve you, but we're made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Owl goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. ♪

I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

I'm Emi Olea, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story. And what I heard wasn't good. You really f***ed last night. It felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. You had to grab the lamp and smash it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to Crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everybody. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. This is a special day today on the podcast. All of you listeners have gotten to know some of the other people in my inner circle, but today you get to meet my youngest daughter, Fiona. Hi, Fiona. Hi. Hi.

Welcome to the podcast. So happy to be here. Oh, I'm happy to have you here. Now it's, I think I've had everyone. Oh, maybe not Luca. I can't remember. Anyways, today we're going to talk about something that affects both of us. Yeah. I know. Stress and overthinking. And we're going to be joined by a psychologist and author of Stress Resets, Dr. Jenny Tates, a little bit later.

But first, I want to kind of just talk about the fact that we're overthinkers. Yeah. I know I've been overthinking most of my life, certainly upon becoming an adult. I think that's when it really started for me. Before I was an adult, I was working in an adult environment. So I had a lot of stress and I think that caused me to overthink.

More than a normal person? Yeah, I can imagine. I don't know. I'm trying to think of like what are certain things I overthink about. What are things that you overthink? Everything. Everything. But I feel like recently it's gotten worse as I've gotten a little bit older with all the stresses and end of high school and all that. Just thinking about my future and stuff.

But yeah, honestly, I feel like my brain is constantly on a spiral at all times. And I know you sometimes feel like that too. Definitely. You said you're a senior for those of us.

You that don't know, she's in her senior year of high school. And so I think during a senior year for teenagers, there is a lot more stress all of a sudden. And it comes fast and it comes hard. And you're like, wait, what? Yeah, I remember the first day of senior year, I was like so overwhelmed because I had all these college applications that I hadn't even started thinking about. But yeah, it's been a lot. Even though it's over the college applications, I still feel myself like always feeling like I have something I need to be doing.

So college preparing is a stressor for you and makes you overthink. What else? I feel like just life and future, I, I beyond college is what I'm going to do. And,

Every day. Where you're going to live? Yeah, where I'm going to live, where I'm going to make money. Who's going to do your laundry? Yeah, exactly. I feel like a lot is just hitting me. Yeah. What about like social media? Social media for sure. Yeah. I feel like it's just constantly stressing me out, especially TikTok. I feel like recently just scrolling and there's always something new that I'm seeing and sometimes it can be really scary and sometimes it's like,

Just very stressful. It feels like there's something always on my mind. How did this, I don't know how the TikToker works. Do you like pick who you're going to follow and that's all you see? Or do you get random stuff all the time? No, well, yes, you can follow certain people, but there's also like a for you page, which isn't really for me anymore because I feel like my algorithm is,

is so weird recently. And like, it'll just show me random videos of like stressful things. And it's like, I got hooked to them, you know? And before you know it, you're, yeah. Yeah. It's like 10 minutes long and I'm just keep watching, keep watching. And I feel like I just think about that all day. And what, for example, like what's an example of something you saw that made you think about it all day? Um, well, the other day I saw the saddest edit of like, just,

the state of the world right now and all that stuff. And it just kind of got me thinking and stressing about these greater things than I am. And, you know, climate change, all these things that like shouldn't really have to be worrying about, but like I am. And I feel like it just escalates it so much on TikTok because it's once you watch one video, then there's another video about it. And the amount of times you're watching the video then gives you more videos like that. And it's just

It's a lot. It's very stressful. So your algorithm isn't just puppies anymore? No, it's not. I mean, I thought it was. And then you watch one video about World War and then there's 10 videos about World War. And then it's like, I don't even know how that got there. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I was younger, I didn't have those kind of stressors. I didn't have that access to all of the bad things happening all across the world in my fingertips. Exactly. There's like a lot of news.

channels on TikTok news accounts that just kind of update. I remember when the fires were happening in California, every single video on my For You page was about the fires and how they're getting worse. And it can be really stressful because not only does it set you into thinking about that, but then when you turn off TikTok, that's also all you can think about. And then you're, you know, spiraling and just going off in your head about it. So I'm sure that can be really hard on a person, especially a young person's nervous system. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that doesn't, I remember when, you know, social media started for you. And I think my biggest concerns were like, oh no, she's going to see naked people or like porn or something like that was my biggest concern. But I think just the state of the world and politics and everything right now is more concerning than that. Okay. Yeah.

That's so true. As a mother and a daughter, let's talk about what causes each of us to get stressed with each other because you're the baby of the family. I was the baby of the family.

So we have a lot in common. I think you know that we're very similar. I don't know if you like that, you hate that. It's good and bad. It's good and bad, right. But what do you think? I'll just tell you. What are some of the things that I get stressed about with you? Okay. Okay. Here we go. How about for the Super Bowl, you decided to go into your stepdad's closet and take out one of his vintage Eagles shirts from when he was a child. Yes.

And you decided it would be a good idea to cut it into a tummy shower. Yeah. It was cute. That stressed me out. You look really cute, but he did not look so cute to me. No, well, okay. It was at the bottom of his dresser. Yes, that's where you keep things that are important to you probably just moving forward. It says something like...

What did it say? It's just, it doesn't matter. No, it matters what it said. It matters what it said because it said like, you want a piece of this, get in line or something like that. Oh, you like the slogan. Okay. Well, you can explain that to him further. One of the other things that stresses me out is when you drive, every time you walk out the door, I'd stress out until you walk back in the door. That's not your fault. That's just being a mom. Yeah.

I stress about your stress level, honestly. Like I worry that you have too many things to deal with at such a young age.

I stress also about just your experience. I stress so much about you being on the social media because I see you in the morning you're on it and right before you go to sleep you're on it. Like you're going to sleep with some maybe not so great imagery and messaging. I feel like I try to do a good job of regulating, but it can be a lot sometimes. Yeah.

What do you stress out with regard to me? Oh, I mean, I don't even know. I feel like it's just a constant stress sometimes with like, you know, making you proud and all that. And I mean, I don't really know what I stress about with you. What do you mean making me proud? Like...

You stress about making me proud. I know. Like, you want to get good grades. I want to make you proud. But you do. And I know sometimes the way I act can be I have a lot in my head and a lot I'm overthinking about. Sometimes I lash out at you or, you know, I can get irritable and stuff like that. And I stress about how you think of me and stuff like that. So...

I do. I stress about when you're stressed, I can feel it, by the way. I know when you're stressed. These are both not good things, I don't think. So, yeah. We're going to have to talk to the doctor about that. I do want to know how to do it. Do you stress about the way you look? Do you stress about things like that?

Yeah, I think that's always a stress in a lot of people's minds. Especially with social media and all that. I think it's very heightened the way that girls see themselves right now in comparison to others, comparing yourself. I stress about what people think of me all the time, even though I try to not. High school too has been really hard.

For me, I know, like I know other people have had hard times too, but it's very stressful. A lot of girls pitted against each other, a lot of conflict and drama and that just makes someone stressed about who they are, you know? That whole competition with girls your age or just other girls in general is

is so damaging. And you can, you know, if you start that in high school, you carry that around with you for a while. Yeah. Until someday you're just free of it and it's the best feeling ever. But I remember that feeling as a young adult, certainly a young girl working as an actress that made me feel like

Like I was against other girls sometimes. And I hated that feeling. It stresses you out because you know that that's not who you are and that's not what you want to do. But then it feels in the moment that that's what's happening, you know? And it also causes you to overthink. I know it causes me to overthink a lot.

Just kind of going on in your head down this spiral of like, am I good enough? What, you know, all those thoughts that come up. Yeah. All the thoughts. That's the ruminating. I think that's the like...

obsessing on one thought and then it sort of just spirals and you start thinking about all the other bad thoughts that can go with it. How do you stop yourself from doing that? Before we talk to the doctor and find out like. I'd love to know how she stops it. But I think sometimes for me is I do have a really hard time stopping it when I start to like go down that hole. Mm-hmm.

I want to ask the doctor this, but I did see something where like if you say a certain word out loud, it kind of stops the thought cycle. I don't know if that's accurate information, but I want to know how like psychologically you can really stop yourself from ruminating. Because I feel like when I start, I'm thinking about something and it turns into something else. And before I know it, I spend 45 minutes of just spiraling in my head and I don't even...

What if you, like, say you're ruminating on the way to school about something. When you get to school and your body's doing something different and you're seeing different things, do those thoughts end? Yeah, I can get distracted. Distraction helps. Especially, I heard one thing naming, just like pointing out five things you see and like smell and hear and, you know, stuff like that can help you make your mind think in a different pattern. But yeah, I do get distracted when I start thinking about certain things.

How do you feel in your body when you're at your most stressed? Like where does it show up in your body? I actually was thinking about that the other day because I don't know about you, but I tend to get really sweaty. I don't know if that's normal. Sweaty? Okay. I really have a problem with that. All my friends like... Like where? Like sweaty where? I don't want to get into that, but... Armpit sweat? Yes. Hand sweat?

Yes. Okay. Okay. Do your feet sweat? No, it's usually my hands, you know, but I think...

I don't know what that is about, but definitely very tense. Mm-hmm. I feel tense overall. Yeah. Do you feel like your shoulders are up here sometimes? Yes. Oh, me too. I also genuinely, like, my head starts to hurt. I don't know. Like, it's just when I'm thinking so hard about something for a long time, it's like, I feel like I start to get, like, physically sick about it. You remember when you used to go on airplanes? You were eight, seven, six in those years. And we traveled a lot. Mm-hmm.

And you used to get so worked up, whether it was at four in the morning when we were getting on the way to the airport, the night before you knew we were taking an airplane, you would work yourself up so much and stress about it so much that you would oftentimes make yourself sick. Like physically, I can remember. Physically sick. Actually running through the airport to catch a flight and just...

Trying to get back and forth to new garbage cans for you to throw up in on the way to the gate. I definitely think that was thought-induced, like fear, paralyzing fear. Like I was really anxious when I was little. You were, yeah. I know. It was like a bunch of different things. And I had those, I don't know what that was, those tics I had where I would like have to touch the car ceiling when...

When we were passing a red light or else my whole family was going to die. And that was because I was like overthinking so much. You have a massively powerful brain. You're so smart and you are so in tune to people's emotions. I think that that might make it even harder for a person to get control of it. So I think it's really important that you get control of it.

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I am all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive, clean, and easy-to-use products.

clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

PerriconeMD works as hard as I do, and it shows. Go to PerriconeMD.com and use code JENNIE for an exclusive 40% off for a limited time. That's PerriconeMD.com, code JENNIE, J-E-N-N-I-E. If you feel like you need a change of scenery, a winter getaway could be just the thing. And whether you dream of a warm tropical vacation or you're more of a ski bunny, Macy's has everything you need to pack for a fun and stylish trip.

Ooh, gloves, earmuffs, luggage. Mm, coats from brands like North Face, UGG, Columbia. That's my love language. And if you want to escape to a warm place, Macy's selections and prices on resort wear, swimsuits, shorts, it truly is your vacation one-stop shop. Shop now at Macy's.com. We all know how important it is to take care of our physical and mental health.

But what about our sexual health? I've been there, feeling stuck and frustrated because I was never in the mood. That's why I started taking Addy. And let me tell you,

I've seen firsthand what a difference it can make. Addi is the only FDA-approved pill for certain premenopausal women frustrated by low libido that's clinically proven to increase our interest in sex, give us more satisfying sex, and lower the stress we feel from low libido. Reconnect and rediscover your sexy self. Talk to your doctor or visit Addi.com.

That's A-D-D-Y-I dot com to learn more. Individual results may vary.

This is a production of Iowa Public Television.

See full PI and medication guide, including boxed warning, at addy.com.pi.

That's A-D-D-Y-I dot com to learn more. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated.

All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, "This sucks. Let's do something about it." I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like, be respectful. We're made out of the same things: bone, body, blood.

It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think now would be a really good time to bring in Dr. Jenny. What do you think? Yeah, I'd love to hear what she has to say. I'm really excited to meet her. Let's do it.

Hi. Hi, Jenny. Hi, Fiona. Hi. Fiona was just telling me earlier that she's a big fan of yours. Yes. I watched you on Call Her Daddy. Oh, thank you. That was a while ago. Thank you. Yes. Well, you were listening into our conversation, right? I was.

I was listening in and I firstly like applaud your courage and vulnerability. And I also totally relate. I was like a professional ruminator until I realized that it was a toxic habit and that there were ways to free yourself from this habit. I like that. A professional ruminator.

Sign me up. Professional ex-ruminator. Hopefully. After this episode, I want to be an official ex-ruminator. Do you think that as parents, we kind of disregard our, especially our teenagers' stress levels? Like maybe not taking the time to fully hear them out or, you know, we ourselves as parents are so stressed out and spread so thin? Yeah.

Seems like there's so much variability between different parents. I think some parents can really empathize. And for some parents, it's too painful and they don't want to hear it. And then they want to try to change the channel or they, and there's, there's like a dance, like you want to be empathic and validating, but you don't want to fall into co-ruminating or like ruminating together in a way that's not helpful. Yeah.

And so I think it really depends. But I think the first place that's important to start is kind of what do we make of our thinking habits? A lot of people think that the conscientious, like responsible thing to do is if there's a problem that you solve.

trying to figure out like where you're going to go to college or climate change that keeping it top of mind all the time, especially if you're smart, is going to somehow lead to some sort of solution or breakthrough. Or we have a lot of positive beliefs about worry that like if I worry about this, then I'll get into my choice school or I'll keep my family safe. But we really need to take a step back and kind of see that.

are is kind of overthinking in this way actually empowering us or depleting us? And is there like a sweet spot where we can like literally schedule ruminating, like schedule time to worry, like cap it at 20 minutes, like you get 20 minutes to really think about like, where do I want to be next fall? Is that term you use worry time?

You could call it worry time. You could call it like I call it in stress resets, reschedule ruminating, because the problem is, is we know we're really clear that the more present in the moment you are, the happier you are. And 50% of the time, we're not in the present moment. For the course of the day, you could have anywhere between like 12,000 and 60,000 thoughts.

And so often we're worrying about things that will never happen. And we're anticipating things that are just totally painful. But if we can like move worry or overthinking from like a news ticker, that's like sucking energy and joy out of you or like Fiona so bravely and courageously talked about like causing physical symptoms, sweating, nausea, if we can sort of see, oh my gosh, I'm doing the thing.

And there's a lot of different techniques that work for different people. I go through like, you know, so many tools to break free of this habit and happy to go through a bunch. Yes, yes. Give us the tools. I'm wondering when you're starting to get into that ruminating spiral and you can't even get yourself to the point to be like, I need to put this away. I'm going to worry about this later. What are some tools you could do in that moment that you would give yourself?

Yeah. So there's so many and different, again, like different things work for different people. I think this is so person specific. Like if like first, the first thing I think is really knowing your triggers. Like if you,

went to a high stakes social thing or a college interview, or you had a stressful conversation with someone like knowing your triggers, like when am I going to be most triggered? And then having a game plan for then like, okay, if I go on a date, prime time for ruminating is going to be afterwards. I'm going to be replaying what I said, wondering what the person thought. I'm going to get into all that.

what can I do in those moments? And so maybe it's like, this seems so silly, but like I have little kids and I do paint by sticker with them a lot. It's kind of like paint by number, but with stickers. Do you know what I'm talking about? I love that. No, I love those. I mean, how can you possibly be like, let me perfectly align number 12 into this thing and also be, so having like some sort of compelling, I mean, again, there's a lot of different tools, but for some people having like,

activity that requires your full focus that totally blocks you from doing something else, whether that's doing the paint by sticker, whether that's reading a book that really captivates you, whether that's really listening to a friend, baking, whatever the thing is, having a specific plan for you of something and like knowing at a time, like I'm doing this thing.

There's a really good chance afterwards I'm going to be tempted to like fall into like the tar pits of torturing myself. Here's what I can do instead. And something that I think works across the board, regardless, and I want to hear Fiona and Jenny, what are some of your thoughts on what would be kind of a thing that would distract you? But one other thing I'll say before I get to that is there's a tool that I teach in stress resets, which I love. It's called TIP.

And it's an acronym for changing your temperature. This sounds so kooky, but like if you took a salad bowl with ice water and you hold your breath and set a timer for 30 seconds, if you submerge your face in the ice water, you're

You totally transform your nervous system. We all have, a lot of us think that solutions are outside of ourselves, but we have this incredible pharmacy within us. Like your body is a walking pharmacy. That's so interesting. Literally, put your face in a salad bowl full of ice. Your heart rate will slow down. You won't be thinking about the same thing. I mean, if you've ever jumped in a cold pool, like you're not thinking about anything except- Is it the same with like baths and hot water or is it only cold water?

So my response is like a special like evolutionary thing that our bodies do. We're like drowning. So it's with cold water and specifically like holding your breath and getting your nose submerged. That's a problem for me. I can't do that. I don't like that.

Like the water cold. That's cold water. The rest of the acronym of TIP is intense exercise. And that's like 90 seconds, not 90 minutes. If you start doing burpees, like you cannot be doing burpees and like replaying a conversation that you think went badly. Yeah.

And so 90 seconds of burpees, paced breathing, breathing in for five, out for five. Again, very cognitively like absorbing, like you can't be counting your breath. And we could even do this together, like breathing in for five with our nose and out for five with our nose.

It always resets you so nicely, right? The breathing. Yeah. And then progressive muscle relaxation. The tip is two Ps. Tensing and relaxing your muscles like from head to toe. These are like quick things in the moment, but bigger picture, we also really need to work on accepting uncertainty. Like we need to drop the rope and know that we'll never know like what other people toe

totally think of us or what's going to happen tomorrow or what climate change is going to do in 15 years. But I think we need tools for the moment and tools big picture. But I'm so curious, Johnny and Fiona, what are some things that would help you get really present, even if you feel like

You're on the cusp of spiraling, and once you get stuck, it's hard to stop. You go first. Me? Yeah. I know you like to take baths and read. I'm a big bath taker. I love taking baths. I also love— But do you ever sit in the bathtub and just think about your problems more? So, yes. That's usually how they go. But recently, I've been trying to—

I've been taking a lot of my books with me in the bath and honestly reading, I think, especially with social media and phone time and all that stuff being a teenager brings, I think the books and reading and really slowing down and thinking about something else that's helping me and stuff like that helps a lot for me. Yeah. There's something right, Dr. Jenny, about the reading and the eyes going back and forth. It like does something to your brain, right? Yeah.

I think even what you just said was so brilliant, like leaving the phone. I mean, again, like the phone is a huge trigger. I know you guys were talking about that. Phone is like training you to jump and read. It's like you can't, I mean, you don't want to, you need to pay attention. You need to like use your full brain to like remember who is this character? What are they doing? What do they say? And so I love what you're saying, Fiona, like stacking things. Like it's not just the bath, it's getting rid of the phone plus the bath. Plus maybe there's a pleasant smell plus the book. We have like a,

whole plan of the things that will really center you in this moment. Jenny, what are some of the things that... I find nature to be really helpful for me with any kind of stress reduction. And I feel like

Playing with my dogs, like looking into the eyes of my dogs and connecting with them and taking care of them. I've always my whole life been a person that loves to take care of other people or things or the house or whatever it is. I'm just wired to do things like that. So I will sometimes submerge myself in a task like this.

cleaning out the sink or, you know, doing something, gardening, something that keeps my mind and my hands busy and focused on something else. Fantastic. And I mean, the thing that I found so surprising and also like hopeful in my research from writing this book was a study where people were asked in a lab setting about something really upsetting that happened to them.

And like 50% of the people had the option to like eavesdrop on research assistants chatting outside. So just people were like having a conversation outside. And 90% of the people who had the chance to eavesdrop, and these are strangers, this is not juicy, like celebrity gossip, you know, high school gossip. This is total, you know, lab assistant gossip. Those people immediately stopped ruminating, but the people that didn't have the option to distract, you know,

And we don't want to live a life that's distracting, but by really learning, it's actually the rumination becomes a distraction. If we're really with our puppies or with reading, then we can get more present. And the whole point of all of this is to like live a life that's anchored in the present, not having like distractions.

you know, our minds that can be really tricky. Yeah, I find that most times I'm ruminating, it's either about the past or the future. It's never about where I am in the moment. And I think sometimes when I'm getting into those patterns, I do think, what do I see right now? Like, what is happening right now? And think about that moment, because that kind of anchors me down, like you were saying. So that's very helpful.

Yeah, I mean, a few others, I want to make sure that I cover like a whole range of different things. So distraction can be helpful if you know that there's like a particular window of time, like,

7:00 p.m. To 9:15 at night or after high-stakes situation having a specific plan of something you could do But if there's something that upset you someone betrayed you or you face some sort of loss I don't want to encourage you to just be distracting and distracting for those situations

being able to write, you know, expressive writing, writing for 20 minutes and research where people wrote about something for 20 minutes, the same topic over three days, six months later, they were significantly less depressed and less prone to ruminating. So there's something about like actually going through something with a beginning, middle and an end and like slowing down and actually letting yourself feel because ruminating is just like touching the surface and like a

not structured way. And so actually like feeling your feelings and going through, taking the time rather than just kind of like, you know, playing whack-a-mole. Wait, you said feeling your feelings. I know that in your book, you suggest giving yourself a panic attack. So you're less afraid of them. And I don't know how to give myself, I mean, I guess if I really put my mind to it, I could give myself a panic attack. What do you mean by that?

So a lot of people, if they have had panic, are totally terrified of the sensations that resemble panic. If you have felt short of breath, out of the blue, even the like a touch of like breathlessness can lead to thoughts of, oh, no, it's back. What is happening to me? How is this happening again? And then your mind and your body are doing this like torturous thing.

um tango where your thoughts aren't helping your body and your body is not helping your thoughts is you know even if you start to sweat if you like are mentally sweating about sweating that's gonna lead to more sweat yeah true yeah but what happens if you break down exactly what do I feel when I'm really stressed you know if I start to feel um really stressed I feel short of breath

I feel a little dizzy. My body feels a little bit shaky. Okay, great. We can help you. This is not in the peak moment of panic. This is preemptively. Let's practice. Let's set a timer for 60 seconds. We can hyperventilate for 60 seconds. We can spin in a chair for 60 seconds. We can hold a plank.

And then once you come to realize that like your body runs itself, you don't need to police it. You don't need to judge it. If you like literally say, oh yeah, been there, done that. I know what this is. It loses its bite. And the next time it shows up, you stop propelling your body with these negative thoughts in a bad way. And so this again is not like a random idea that I thought up in the shower, but

But this is something that is really powerful across all anxiety conditions, whether social anxiety or anxiety about flying or driving anxiety or panic attacks, where you're afraid of a specific bodily response.

So you're saying let your body have the response, allow it to run its course so you can kind of observe it and realize that it's not the end of the world. It's going to stop eventually. Exactly the same way some people are afraid of elevators or heights and they need to like face that fear. You can face the fear that you can feel short of breath. And that actually doesn't mean you're dying. That means that you're short of breath and that will pass. And your breath will also breathe itself when you stop like breathing.

hovering over it and trying to micromanage it. And this is something that a lot of people find can be helpful with a therapist, but, um,

If you allowed yourself to practice like sweating and like, you know, purposefully putting on a warm coat and not sweating about sweating, do you think when it came on, it would feel less stressful or? Yeah. I mean, usually it just, it's not even that I realize that I'm sweating. It just happens. And then that makes, causes me to overthink. I do feel like

kind of preparing myself more would stop the scare, like you said, because sometimes I'm like, oh, no, I'm sweating and that means I'm overthinking. And then I overthink about overthinking. And then, you know, I don't even know. But yeah, I do think that would help. Yeah. Maybe it's even when it comes on to not judge it, because a huge part of the not judging it, maybe you can't.

But I imagine if you went to hot yoga and you were sweating. I love hot yoga. And so we could generalize that like, okay, sweating is great. Sweating is healthy. It is natural. Good for you, actually. Yeah.

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I am all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive,

clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

ParaconeMD works as hard as I do, and it shows. Go to ParaconeMD.com and use code JENNIE for an exclusive 40% off for a limited time. That's ParaconeMD.com, code JENNIE, J-E-N-N-I-E. If you feel like you need a change of scenery, a winter getaway could be just the thing. And whether you dream of a warm tropical vacation or you're more of a ski bunny, Macy's has everything you need to pack for a fun and stylish trip.

Ooh, gloves, earmuffs, luggage. Mm, coats from brands like North Face, UGG, Columbia. That's my love language. And if you want to escape to a warm place, Macy's selections and prices on resort wear, swimsuits, shorts, it truly is your vacation one-stop shop. Shop now at Macy's.com. We all know how important it is to take care of our physical and mental health.

But what about our sexual health? I've been there, feeling stuck and frustrated because I was never in the mood. That's why I started taking Addy. And let me tell you,

I've seen firsthand what a difference it can make. Addi is the only FDA-approved pill for certain premenopausal women frustrated by low libido that's clinically proven to increase our interest in sex, give us more satisfying sex, and lower the stress we feel from low libido. Reconnect and rediscover your sexy self. Talk to your doctor or visit Addi.com.

That's A-D-D-Y-I dot com to learn more. Individual results may vary.

We'll be right back.

See full PI and medication guide, including boxed warning, at addy.com.pi. Addy.

That's A-D-D-Y-I dot com to learn more. Hey, y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. My podcast, When You're Invisible, is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped my life. I get to talk to a lot of people who form the backbone of our society, but who have never been interviewed before. Season two is all about community, organizing, and being underestimated.

All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks. Let's do something about it. I can't have more than $2,000 in my bank account or else I can't get disability benefits. They won't let you succeed. I know we get paid to serve you guys, but like be respectful. We're made out of the same things. Bone, body, blood.

It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the lesson and I'm also the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible as part of the My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's so interesting. You said before, you know, when you're looking at your social media and stuff that you start to think that you have symptoms of a certain illness. Oh, my God. Yeah. Or even like, oh, when I get a sore throat, then you start. This is something you do. You start worrying about your sore throat and thinking, oh, no, something's really wrong with me. I have the sore throat. Yeah.

And it never, it doesn't seem to go away because you're just focusing on it so much. And every time I look up a new symptom online on Google and TikTok especially, it will tell me a new thing. So I'm like, okay, I have this now and then I also have this disease and all these things. And in reality, I'm fine. But it's just, I just have this constant worrying fear of health for some reason and I don't really know why or how to. Yeah.

What do you think, doctor? We have to accept some amount of uncertainty. We don't know if...

It is itchy because it's dry in our house or because we might be getting strep or something else. And so I think accepting in this moment, it's okay. It's okay because we can just watch like the thinking, those thoughts can lead to more symptoms. And then maybe you're losing time to do something that is, you know, writing a report or calling a friend back. And so a lot of people think it's helpful to like Google, but Google is really accepting. Yeah.

In a situation where you have recurrent fears that like you're almost like nine times out of 10, it's like, oh, this is just health anxiety. I know that I have this and I do this. I talk about something else in the book that a lot of people find fun is,

if you have a recurrent like stressful thought that never helps you like i'm making something up but like i'm gonna die and when you're not you know it's like you have you know an itchy throat does not mean you're gonna die if you can sing that i'm gonna die to like an upbeat tune it automatically is like oh yeah this is what you know this is what i do in these situations i tell myself it's like almost like if you don't have plans on a friday night and you tell yourself you're a loser instead of

really believing that and like sinking into that and then then spending the night on social media and seeing what other people are doing and then it really feels even more real what if you sing I'm a loser for like a second to a fun song you know I'm a loser baby I like that song yeah it's the same thing with I'm gonna die it's like okay you're not gonna die like the second you sing the song it loses its

sting and you have some perspective because another huge way to change your relationship with ruminating is even just seeing like thoughts are mental events like thoughts are mental events we can get above them we can see our thoughts the same way we see clouds in the sky or but they also create very real feelings if I ask you to think about biting into a lemon you your mouth will start to water but if you can get above that and just see this is just a mental event I don't need to

get sucked in just because I thought about a lemon doesn't mean that there's a lemon in my mouth. Yeah. Sometimes when I will have a thought that doesn't make me feel great, I'll just say, Hmm, that's interesting.

I wonder what that's about, you know? And then it kind of just... Just without judgment thinking. Yeah. And then say, we'll see what happens with that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much. I was at a conference, a psychology conference, and a colleague, he was like an older senior person when I was in grad school. And I had gone to his workshop and so we sort of knew each other. And...

And he came up to me at the conference and he was like, oh, are you giving a talk? And I said, oh, no, I'm not giving a talk. He said, why not? And I said, oh, I'm not very good at giving talks. And he looks at me and he was like, did you thank your mind for that thought? And it was like such a light bulb moment. Like, did you thank your mind for that thought? Like, wow, like Mimi, I'm not good at giving talks is like a story.

My mind is... You're telling yourself, yeah. And I can thank my mind for that thought. Like, thank you, mind. You know? Yeah, but then you can say, oh, thank you very much for coming, but no thank you, not right now. Yeah, or you could play with it. Like, I joke with my clients. Like, what if your thoughts are like Susie from Curb Your Enthusiasm? You know, you automatically...

I don't know if Fiona gets that reference. Maybe not. We need to figure out some like annoying, complaining kind of character. Yeah. Because again, we get sucked into ruminating because we think that we're somehow helping ourselves or we're preparing. We're going to figure it out.

If we think about it more and more, we're going to figure it out. Let's think about it in a structured way or let's see it with distance and humor and perspective. What about when like we as mother and daughter, we have stress over a topic or a situation. How can we handle that better in a way that's good for our relationship at the end of the day?

Yeah, I mean, so I think talking about things in a constructive way. And so if there's something that happened, like the Eagles t-shirt or something, like if you can have a timestamp, like, okay, let's talk about this for 15 minutes. And then let's get really present and do what we would do on a normal Sunday night. Because I think a lot of people think the more they turn it over, the more they're again, like going to prevent it from happening again, or whatever.

create some sort of brand new insight, but can we try to understand this with compassion and kindness? We'll validate one another like the end of the day, all we want is to feel understood and seen. And Fiona, I could totally see how you would like, this is the perfect shirt. Like no one could get a shirt better than this. This shirt really means a lot to your stepdad and what might be a way to repair this with him. So again, like if we can contain it, because I think

we get into, it's fine to talk to your friends about something that's stressing you out or to complain to someone about something, but can we, you know, make it 10 minutes, not two hours. That's a good. Yeah. I think sometimes when you're in the heat of the moment, we're,

you know, butting heads about something, we don't ever really have a conversation about it. We just kind of vent and pop off about it. And that also causes me to ruminate about it more when we stop talking. So it's better to just sort of sit down and give us that two minutes or three minutes or five minutes, whatever we need. Yeah. I like that. It's a great tip. Problem solving, like problem solving is a good alternative to ruminating instead of like, what if, what if, what if, you know? Yeah.

Problem solving. That's something we don't think about enough. We just think about the problem. Yeah. I think I taught you this before. One of the things that my best friend Adele, who's a therapist, taught me was

when I'm spiraling or ruminating or feel like I'm going to lose it because I can't stop thinking about something, to envision a stop sign, to see the stop sign in my mind, the octagonal shapes, the edges, the white line around the border, the color of the sign, the way the letters are white within the red, and follow each letter in my mind. And then by the end of it, I've stopped thinking about whatever I was thinking about.

And it's just ironic that it's the stop sign. It's just a bonus. Yeah. And there's a skill that we teach. I teach in as part of dialectical behavior therapy. Stop, slow down, take a step back.

observe and proceed mindfully. Ooh, I like that. Stop. Take a step back. Take a step back. Observe. Slow down. Yeah. Observe. Proceed mindfully. Uh-oh, I did it wrong already. I'll remind you, okay? Oh my gosh, this has been such a great conversation. Thank you, Dr. Jenny. I know that Fiona, you've loved it too. Yeah, this is really helpful for me. Before I let you go, I have to ask you a question that I always ask my guests.

Dr. Jenny, what was the last I choose me moment you had?

One is I find like people find social media so distracting. I find texting so distracting. And I just yesterday, someone asked me to join a WhatsApp and I very proudly told them that I don't use WhatsApp because it's like, I love like I choose me moments that are just instances, but dramatically overhaul your quality of life. And so much like,

Ruminating takes us out of this moment constantly texting and messaging can take us out of being really present and so not having... WhatsApp was your moment. I love that. Group texts, yeah, this constant noise and pinging and overthinking. And then the second one is even in this moment, I think I'm all about removing negatives and adding positive.

positives and even just taking a moment to really savor this moment. I, you know, it's crazy. I used to watch 90210 when I was Fiona's age. It is surreal. I never would have thought when I was an adolescent, um, struggling with self-doubt that I would be sitting across from you today. Well, I'm so glad you are because you're helping so many people. So thank you. I know you helped us. Yes. Thank you. I'm savoring this moment too. Me too.

Thank you, Dr. Jenny. Nice to see you guys. Please stay in touch. Yes, yes. Nice to see you too. Oh my gosh. Didn't you love that conversation? I loved it. It was really helpful. You know what always amazes me about you? You have a great self-awareness about you. Like, you know the things that you would like to do differently. You know areas of your life that you're like, I need to improve that a little bit. Or I kind of don't want to be

stuck in my thoughts that doesn't feel good. And like you seek out ways to make changes in your life. And I respect that so much about you because you're just 18 years old. I wasn't doing any of that kind of helpful, you know, thinking about thinking at my age, you know? Yeah. I mean, yeah. You're just so ahead of where I was. I'm proud of you for that. Thank you so much.

Okay, but before I let you go, Fiona Facinelli, what was your last I choose me moment? Okay, let me think. You know,

I feel like I've been doing this a lot recently. I don't know if you've noticed, but I've been taking a lot of baths, like I said earlier. And I feel like it just is kind of a time for me to unwind from my day. And I know sometimes I want to bring my computer with me on my little, you know, prop it up somewhere and watch my show while I'm in the bath. But two nights ago, instead of doing that, I actually read

like literally half of my new book that I got. And I think that was just a really good moment where I put myself first and I was in a ruminating spiral. So it did help me. And yeah, I think reading and taking time for myself away from the phone is really just recently when I've been feeling like I'm choosing myself more. That's so good. I'm glad you're getting that now because I've been telling you to get off that damn phone.

It's happening. I'm trying. Wait, what book did you take in the bath with you? Actually, you got it for me for Christmas. It was the one, it's called Choosing Myself. I don't know the author.

It's called Choosing Me and it's all about how to choose yourself. - Love that, great. - Yeah, it's really good. Also another one is 101 Essays That'll Change the Way You Think. Best book ever. I reread it all the time. Brianna West, I think is the author. It's great. - Oh, good hot tip. - Yep. - From the 18 year old, you guys. You're welcome. Thanks babe. - Thank you for having me. I had so much fun and learned a lot.

Hi, it's Jenny Garth. Now that I'm in my 50s, I am all about skincare that delivers real results. And that's why I choose Perricone MD. Perricone MD's award-winning formulas combine the highest quality ingredients with decades of research and expensive,

clinical testing to back up their promises. Using these products exclusively, I've really noticed a dramatic difference in my skin. It's smoother, I feel glowy, and it reduces my fine lines. I feel like my face just looks softer and everybody wants to know what I've been using. Well, it's Perricone MD.

Hey,

y'all. I'm Maria Fernanda Diaz. When You're Invisible is my love letter to the working class people and immigrants who shaped me. Season two shares stories about community and being underestimated. All the greatest changes have happened when a couple of people said, this sucks. Let's do something about it.

We get paid to serve you, but we're made out of the same things. It's rare to have black male teachers. Sometimes I am the testament. Listen to When You're Invisible on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here? Owl goes lower? From Blumhouse TV, iHeart Podcasts, and Ember 20 comes an all-new fictional comedy podcast series. Join the flighty Damien Hirst as he unravels the mystery of his vanished boyfriend. ♪

I've been spending all my time looking for answers about what happened to Santi. And what's the way to find a missing person? Sleep with everyone he knew, obviously. Listen to The Hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

I'm Emi Olea, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story. And what I heard wasn't good. You really f***ed last night. It felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. You had to grab the lamp and smash it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story.

Listen to Chromes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.