#266 – Lessons Learned Building a $37k/mo Business in 2.5 Years with Mat De Sousa of WideBundle
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Hey, I was going to matter. Hey, what's up? Uh, welcome to the show.

Let me introduce you. Map your map. disussed. You are an andy hacker and you tweet and alive. This year we did. I built five shop ify apps, and that makes me over three hundred and forty thousand dollars a year.

which is amazing. Yes, IT makes me more today. Revenue is how much? Four hundred .

fifty thousand dollars? thirty? How long did you take you to get this problem? I goes this like even working on, he's actually ten years.

Yeah, two years and new health, something like that because I started yeah, I started in may twenty, twenty. So that .

is wow, that's amazing to have a team, business partners and you raise money like how much as you? How much?

yes. So I started alone. So I was the only one of the project when I started um six months s in maybe a bit less.

I I am the first person because I didn't expect that growth. So basically, uh, someone joined the team but only for custom supports. And so today we are five in the team. I have like two developers, one person for marketing and one person for customer support. And there is me, obviously, in doing everything.

doing all this in two years, insane. But I have to say that, I mean, the three hundred and forty thousand to four hundred and one fifty thousand between july, what like six hundred and five months is really insane.

Yeah, just get yourself a hundred k rys. In five months.

Yeah, basically that was complicated because now I had the big growth like in the beginning 啊， because in in something like six months, I went from zero to ten cape a month. So that was like youth growth. And in less than a year we were at twenty five k right? I thought I was going to reach like, I don't know, like one hundred thousands in two years or something like that.

And the only thing is that I was talk at twenty five, you know, and I didn't know what was like, what was happening and something. And once I found why I was stack, uh, you know, I started to grow again and we're growing. So that's cool.

Have going to feel to get to twenty five so fast, I mean, going from zero dollars perhaps working for yourself yeah for others and suddenly know you guys your own sustainable business that's like crushing IT so quickly like you to do your life change, to do your outlook change out .

of that feel of money. I was a twice because I said I was going to make money, my business and stuff like that and in twenty twenty I was still like studying engineering um and I told my I remember I told my parents like i'm going yeah and yeah I didn't believe me um that's that's something but i'm coming from a rich family so they just said, uh, you know it's not possible and when I remember like when I wanted to have that business, I didn't want something like making thousands under thousands every months of like that. I just wanted something I could live like, something with which I could live enough to cover my expenses and stuff like that. And for the people that were making that much money, I always thought like I was life changing, like I was going to be a completely different and IT was in the case so I don't know IT fits big as you know he was so quick but my life didn't change like i'm still not buying anything um you don't still the same person.

I'm similar and that like you know money doesn't really fundamentally changed my life. But whether any like inconveniences like all sort of where the stress a concerns, like did you ever have to like cut back on stuff?

So first of all, it's not my first project, right? I've created a lot of things in the past, didn't work, right? But I still created a lot of things. And with this, uh, shop five apps, I started to have problems. But I call them rich problems.

So like, you know, you have thousands of users coming to your APP and you like you can do support alone like you used to be alone on the projects and everything and right now um I had like hundreds of messages and I didn't know how to how to do and so I had rich problems because I had too many users. So that's one of the problem that that I had because yeah, you will create a lot of problems that you didn't expect and that you didn't have before. When I started, you know I was more about I don't know if I will make IT.

I don't know if I will if I will have something that will make money. And so you know, you couldn't go lower than what you were, right? And today i'm scared about that just because now you have something to lose IT means you can earn more because you can lose what you have.

And so that's something I always like, maybe tomorrow, like a fool. I don't know shop if I will close my APP I don't know yeah yes. So I have a lot of stress regarding that um but I see everything that is created and what IT allows me today to do. And you know I say that it's part of the game, and you have to do IT like that.

Let's talk about what you're actually doing. It's a little complex, as I said, tweet. You said you put five shop phy apps. Maybe you start by plain fy. Most people know a shop fire is is a huge fifty billion dollar public company and it's an e commerce platform, meaning that if i'm somebody who wants to sell stuff online, I nit ugly Christmas sweaters and I want to sell them.

I can sign up for sharp phy and build an online store for myself and started ts selling my ugly sweater ers to people on the internet and obviously not want to create a sharp fy. You're not even to shop fy merged as long as i'm aware. What you're are doing is you're making apps for people like me who have a sharp fy store and you've made a bunch of these things, were going to walk through them individually at some point.

But curious as that actually, like do you make shop of file apps? Do you make any in other ways? No.

but that's the the revenue. This is yeah another emersion. Uh, I make money with shop by absence and usually I tell people like when I tell people I make money with shocky ah they think that i'm emersion but i'm not one and just I create apps.

And you also have a newsletter called building a successful chap fy apps on your twitter free. It's got five hundreds of discharge for access to that. Is that free? Uh.

everything is free for the moment at least. I mean, when I started to know twitter, news letter and everything is just because back in twenty seventeen, when I started building shop fight apps, I didn't find a lot of content about how to grow a shop ahead uh, how to build one um what marketing tips you can do and and stuff like that and so you know uh, I like to say that today I just want to be the guy I wanted to meet when I started.

And so that's why I have this twitter account sharing everything um I created newsletter or and recently we have a facebook group why we share like you know lives regular lives and stuff like that. I'm trying to build on different platform and and share everything. I've learned something.

Why do you recommend that hackers become fy developers of like in europe? Ion, what's so good about yeah shop.

What is good about that is that you when you're an india cor and you know usually you do everything by yourself, right? You can do everything you have. You have to pick some stuff.

And anything that was great about shop, shop five apps is that you don't have to worry about a lot of things that are usually like a bit stressful and stuff like that like you don't have to worry about taxes, payments because shop fy angles all of that. And you know sometimes um the actions are not very a good at marketing. You know sometimes they are developers are they are not create at marketing.

And which is great about that ecosystem is that you have systems, for example, you have the shop fie APP store where you can put you up and receive traffic for free. So you know when when you not good at marketing. This is a great way to start because you can installs just just like an APP on the you know on on your mobile, something like that, you can just receive traffic and stopped from there.

And you can make money even if you like one and two person developer. And that's what I like about that, because you can build something like, you can build a business as a one person. And I know people who build shop for apps and are making a lot of money just by being single like one person to you know how technical .

do you need to be to be a sharp of fy up developer? I think this is like real programing, right? It's not too different building like a web APP or a mobile .

p is not different different like a web up or something like that. Um what is great is that shop fy as a lot of documentation about that and I don't consider myself a good developer, you know. Um I learned P H P when I was thirteen and I never learned anything else, right.

So all my shop five apps are built in PHP. Um I don't use the last trendy language or something like that and I can still make money, right? So you have to be able to build something, but you don't need to be the best developers in the world to put something that is useful for people.

When you think of a successful shop of I apt about her who's killing IT in the space, I mean, I you're doing really well with a view in very tiny team. Who do you .

look up to there is, for example, like shuh hk from the up partial, he recently saw this APP to big company. And like you made millions, you know, he was single APP, you know, you build the APP. And then and now he has a team, he has everything and and but it's started as a small APP. It's a shop fy APP and and you sell IT for millions, know? So you build something on top of a platform and you still sell IT for millions yeah I .

am curious about that too, because you said that you just want to be you want to be the guy that you wish you would discovered when you first started buildings up fips. I think a lot of people change. I watch someone would help me out.

They start making money hand over festing like, I don't want anyone to find out what i'm doing or how i'm doing. I just want to be quietly low, do my own thing. Why do you? Why do you go there? Why not be screw and hold up in your money in your techniques and keep IT all secret?

Yeah because I feel like, you know I don't lose anything um by doing that I mean obviously and create competitors you know but know what's called about the access system and the upstart everything is that you know you get reviews, you get installed so you already ahead of everyone. So you know you cannot have someone coming and like telling everything you have because they are reviews. There is like everything you've built already.

And what is cool about that is that I share everything, but IT also helps me gets more, more different things. For example, we do like our partnerships, right, to get like boy stalls. We do our partnerships for marketing.

And you know, today, IT became easier to get up partnerships. Sometimes they already know me from twitter and so IT sees you to close that to close the deal. So all right, i'm helping people I may be creating great like creating competitive but i'm also helping my own business um to scale and do A A few different things like that.

Now we have kind of the same thing with any hackers I want to build in public. I want anyone who wants to build a community immediate company is something someone what we've built to be able to see what we're doing, see how that works. I think it's like very fun.

It's motivational. People cheer you on like i've seen some your tweet, you talk about your revenue and you get all these retweet and legs and support. And you know, we did that five and half years ago, we started andy hackers.

But we've also know how kind of the same like risks we've had some people start competing companies is like lots of competitors, andy hackers. There's lots of sites that energy entrepreneurs, there's lots of sites of lots of podcast that have come up that do exactly what we do. But I think that just makes IT Better for everybody.

And in a way that kind of like has made ni hackers more popular because a lot of these other people were like pushing out their message and they talk about andy hackers. And so I like building in public. And I think it's worth IT. If you you have a strong enough business that you're not going to just like rumble and full because it's a competitor, then it's usually just a good thing. So you're prety Younger.

How old are you?

I'm twenty five. okay. So you're just like, you know fresh school them with the sharp fy apps, a made five apps you mentioned in your torture thread about five apps.

I like the book of your revenue comes from two of them. You shut down the other three. I I like what what came first the most successful absurd. You start with one of the ones you shot down.

No so I started twenty seventeen with my first APP. Um so I didn't know anything about like business so like marketing lish opp y APP something like that. The only thing I knew was I was in the a commerce group, like a french commerce group, and two guys told me, like, there were two marketers, and they told me, like, we need to build that shop.

Fib IT will work in everything. And I remember because at the time, at the time, what I thought was I needed the big ig. Like, I needed something so big and so good that everyone would buy IT, you know? And so they told me about that ID.

And I remember, I told him, like your ideas bad? Like, no. Like I can build.

I can build into two days. Like it's, it's very bad. Like nobody, we will buy IT, but I had nothing to lose. So I just say, okay, lets go, lets do IT. And so I built a chop for APP.

And I remember like I had my first like aha moment because like in the first days, we started to have users, you know, I had never have users in my like in the best. And so you know, I grow this APP. We grow in to one thousand dollar per month.

Then we didn't grow anymore like we were stuck at at one k and like, I didn't know why because I wasn't the market today. I didn't know anything. I just knew how to build something and they didn't know why.

But the only thing is that you know they didn't really care because they were were making more money uh, with there's all the businesses, you know yeah and since they were not SaaS marketer, there are many things that you didn't know. And the only problem is that so if I change a lot of things in the platform and I had to shut down my APP because he didn't work anymore. And so, you know, at that time, I thought that I was able to build shop for apps that was good enough. And so I said, okay, it's just build an another rap. So I build another rap this time, I build IT alone, and I didn't have users.

Have you come to the idea for .

this APP um that's the problem like I thought about an I G and said, okay, I think it's great. I think I should build IT and lets do IT. So I spend time working on is probably something like two, three months and nobody wanted IT.

Um so I said, okay, that's that's the problem that is just build an other APP and so I built a third up and I didn't wait um the same problem and that's when I said, okay, stop. I think it's not for me. Let's do something else and so I started to build other projects and that I had three years already with experience and stuff like that.

And so in twenty twenty, I said, okay, um let's build again. Shop five apps. I have six months to build something. I know e commerce.

I know shop five apps, I know I can do IT, but this time I will make things like properly, you know, instead of trying to think about an ID building IT, spending time building IT, I will just do the proper steps. So basically finding a problem, validating the problem, then finding all the users, billie tes, getting feedback, and then I will grow from that. And that was crazy because I found the problem.

I validated IT, uh, with the facebook groups. And I said, doesn't anyone want that? And I started to receive a lot of the ms, like saying, hey, what is the name of the APP ah can I have that to you and something like that? And so I knew I had something.

so you build. So yeah, let's just dive. End of this because I this is where a lot of any hackers get stuck and coming up with the idea is one of the hardest parts.

An idea that works. Even have an idea that doesn't work can be hard for a lot of people. But you seem to have a lot of those.

You were just rifting and you had to slow down. I'm gonna same as you have million ideas, but I have to like, be more consider IT like OK, which this is actually good. How do I go to like a good process of validating IT? And so you said you've found a problem.

You did some research like, how did you find the problem? What IT was the problem? And then how did you have validate?

So I knew who I was targeting, like shop five motions, you know, shop five users. I now already knew that because I was already in a few feeble groups, like french facebook groups about shop fire e commercial stuff like that so I knew where to find them and now I just needed the problems and so I just started to talk to people like what do you do um how was your day and just stuff like that but at some point, you know you you notice something like someone will say, hey, uh, I had a problem today or I don't know why, but this thing didn't work and at some point you notice you there is a little problem.

This is why you can doing IT to and and stop asking like why what is the problem? What do you want and what happens is um I noticed three people who wanted to do something uh on shop fy with bundles. So um so he was something a related to bles.

So when you you know you create products, multiple products and and you sell them like in a pig or something. And so they wanted to do something that didn't exist. So he told me, like I didn't find an APP to do IT and and I don't know why.

Like and I ask them, like if I build IT, like, will you use and I said, yeah, definitely. Like, I needed and I and I found three people for the same thing, you know? So, okay, IT was maybe not exactly the same thing, but the problem was almost the same. And so I just say, okay, so if there are three people who want IT and they say they would buy IT, like maybe there there are more people .

for that and what was the .

problem they had? Yeah yeah. It's you like when you have two or three products that you pack and you sell them.

So for example, you say something like buy two products and you get like the first one for free or something like that. So this is a bundle. And usually IT will like you push people to buy more products until you'll ll make more money.

And the only thing is that the building apps that you add on shop file where displayed below the article button, so basically how IT was on the page, you had like the title of the product, the Price you had like um you know the quantity of the product and the button to add to the court, right? And usually the the apps were below that so that you could buy two or more products with a discount and step like that. And what they wanted is to combine both of these elements of the bundles to remove a step basically in the buying process and everything to increase the conventions.

So that's what I wanted. And with that, they wanted something like to be able to combine many discounts on chrome fy and IT wasn't something that was possible chop fy and is still not possible. Basically on py, you can stack discount code so you have to choose.

So let's say you have a discount code to get like free shipping and a discount code to get like the first product for free. While you have to choose, you can use both. And so we created away. So yeah they .

now so like like a store owner, i've got my ugly Christian sweater store and selecting a sweater. If I use what you built wide bundle, I basically like multiple options. It's a go.

You two sweaters, you want three sweers. I want to put two sweaters. Then I can choose like the size and the color for both of them, one, three.

Then I could the size and the color for all three of them, and I get my discount. And then I see the add cart button below that. And so just a much more seamless experience and that people could not do that before you build your APP.

exactly. And what I did is I basically created a mop on photoshop, so I didn't do the same mistake of you know spending time working on IT and then nobody wants IT so I just said, okay, um I would create a mock up of what I have in mind and you will tell me what you think about IT and and I even posted IT into the facebook roup saying something like, does anyone want that or something like that?

I'm not exactly remember, but I know it's on it's on the twitter, the screen shot, the exact screen shot. And I started to have a lot of people saying, what is the name of the APP? I want that to um I don't remember exactly how many commons I have, but I connected everyone and I asked them like, what do you want? Is what you want? Exactly what would you changing the design? And I started to look to craft in my mind what the APP would look like.

And I spent maybe one week building IT, something like that, like a very simple version of of the APP. You know, back in the days you didn't have to go through the approval process of sharp fy IT means that today, if you build an APP, you have to show your APP to sharp fy and they will tell you like a this is okay or you need to change that or something. Back in the days you didn't have to go through all of that like you could build IT and and people could just directly use IT, you know and so um I did IT people started to use IT.

They liked IT. Uh before pushing IT to shop fy and like pushing IT to the up store, I first improve the APP with the few people that I had, maybe ten users. And so that's when I started to push the APP even more so on the APP store, asking for people to leave a review, asking them to refer friends.

And yes, so I had a few problems with that. For example, I started to try the data. That was something I didn't do with my first APP.

And I know that he was the problem, you know. So with my first APP, I reached like one thousand per month. I wasn't groing anymore and I didn't know why.

And so today I know that reason why I wasn't tracking my data. And because I wasn't tracking IT, I didn't know what was wrong. Like maybe was the activation rate, maybe was the on boarding, maybe I didn't know.

I just two gases like maybe it's that let's change that IT doesn't change anything. But today I didn't do the same mistake, so I installed a tool called mix, where you can track basically everything that the user is doing on your, on your APP. So you know, when they install your APP, when they use a feature, when they click on the bon, everything.

And so I noticed a few problems where some metrics s were not good enough. So for example, only seven person were converting at the end of the free trial. So seven persons and IT was a bit low.

So, you know, I started to do some changes, changing the own body, a, improving the U. N. S. Try to change some stuff.

And at some point, you know, I started to increase IT seven person to twenty to thirty, and today we are forty persons, you know. And I know that this is not something I did with my first APP. And I did the same thing for many different numbers.

So activation right on boding, you know everything like people with union style the same day, like sometimes I had many people union the same day, the same day as the installed. And he was because they didn't understand they up. So you know i'm trying to fix every matrix and at the same time, you know you're trying to get more people up. So doing up partnerships, trying to get people like from the up store, trying to improve the the page thing on the up store instead like that at at sample, you start to grow.

I think going from a seven percent conversions, ary, what do you say? Forty percent at some point is absolutely insane. I think one of the chAllenges is a lot of developers who are building, like they have the same situation on, man, no one's converting and they might even be measuring like through mix panel or google.

Okay, like nobody is nobody is signing up. What do I do? And we'll do the same thing.

You'll started making a grandma proveth to their product. It's that it's kind of a common trap. They make their product way Better, way shine away sleeper and more features. And on the conversion is still the same.

Why didn't that happen with you? Like why does your numbers actually go up? Because this is something I think a lot who wants to know, like how to increase by conversion rate that what happened for you.

So for example, for, uh, for White bendle. So what I did, uh, was simple. First of all, I didn't have a known building, so I added one. So the only building will just show people have to use the APP so you have to take them to the point where they will see the value of your APP.

So I tried to improve and to add the Young boarding so they could go quickly to that instead of saying, hey, just use the at just use the APP the way you want um so they have to figure out everything I just tell them like for that um that path the first steps, second one, third one and then at some point you see up in everything then to know exactly what steps I had to add into the on boarding. That's something I did using this panel the same way I created two quotes. So quotes a group of people that are you know linked based on maybe something they did or one attribute or something like that.

And I just created two group of people. Like one group was the people who paid at the end of the free trial, and one group was people who didn't pay at the end. And then I checked everything that the people who are paid at the end did, that the others didn't do.

And so you will notice a pattern. And for us, IT was, I knew that people who convert to at the end checked on the page how the APP looked like. So they click on the bottom to see how the APP would look like after they added the bindles.

So I knew that these people did that. And the other one, like they didn't do IT, they they stayed on the page. Try to change a few settings before, check how how we appear.

So what I did is okay, in the old building, in the old boarding, everyone will have to click on the link to see exactly how IT appears. Because I know that this steps, since everyone who paid did that, or maybe mostly of them like then did that, let's just make sure that everyone do is like IT will increase that. So I did IT.

And what's right about mix panel is, for example, you can say, um I want to see like the path that people took like from starling to is paying like someone is paying and you can see like the most frequent asked and and stuff like that. If you track everything like every action, you will see sometimes some patterns that our bits, sometimes very simple but you can see IT if you're not tracking your data, for example. Um you know I know that from facebook, but you know on facebook when you um they found that when someone create created a facebook accounts, they had to follow like they had to add something like seven friends so they had seven friends and they knew that this number was enough to stick people to to the platform.

So they knew they had to follow like to to get seven friends to stay on the platform. And so they made sure that everyone like the first action they had to do was to get like seven people. And so that's something you need to .

figure out on your APP. And you know once you got traction with White bundle, yeah like what was your marketing? Like how did you how did you grow besides just improving conversions if you .

started off in this like facebook group talking to people and their to hold in their hands? So how did you how did you blast IT out like the wider world and started really growing?

Yeah what is great about communities is that when something is working for someone, they will, they will tell the others about IT. So we grew a lot through word of math. So for example, what I did is when something, when someone installs White bundle, I asked them, like, how do you know about White bundle le? And so we track IT.

Like, did you make a search in the up store? Did you find us in like some place where mouse, facebook, youtube can be anything? So in the first place, IT was mostly facebook groups.

Today, feeble groups are not what they used to be. But back in the days, they were amazing for that because we had many people like sharing, no agent and steff like that. Then obviously the shop fy up store helped us a lots, you know, p fy will put you in front of more people because your APP is getting reviews.

You are is getting instars. They see that you have a good APP and so they will start to show you APP to more people so people can find your APP um by searching on your APP store. But the chop file will also push your APP to people that are similar to your current users.

And so what's amazing is that I had many french users, obviously, and the shop, if I started to show my APP to more french people, you know. And so today, like maybe forty percent of my user base comes from friends I started to do like linkedin. So I started to personal linkin.

Then we started to do some up partnerships. So with other apps to the call marketing. So um like you know doing some emails, uh some articles, putting your APP in the dugouts or their users can find your APP. Um then we we did a lot of avilion marketing, so basically paying people to like to recall the video on youtube um on tiktok so they can um get our apps and I feel I I think that every everything you know will um help like the older channel.

So basically someone will see you your video on youtube, they will see you APP in in the shop five store, they will see you APP everywhere and so they will start to to install IT and I think that's exactly what helped us get attraction, especially because we like we had everything in the beginning like so quickly, like we started to have many videos. We started to have like many people talking about our apps. And so sometimes, you know, people would contact us just saying, I started to see you up everywhere.

Like I started to see IT in some shop five store. I started to see IT on facebook groups like I watched the video about IT. And so you know, they just try IT because they sit everywhere so they like, you know, a bit of a fear of missing out of something like that.

The question that i've out of my mind since the beginning is right now you're doing thirty seven thousand dollars a month, and you mention that you got quickly, relatively quickly to twenty five k and then hit that plant toe. So like, how did you close that gap? Like what was what was the nature of the plant to, I guess, is the first question. And then like, what did you do to get over that? Because that's I mean platos are the pain of every entrepreneur existence.

Um so basically in the beginning, we did everything that was waking, so we started to grow. So I did more of what we were already doing, right? And then when I reached twenty five k and we had this platter, IT was mostly because the turn was the same as the acquisition.

You know, I tried the a few different things, are trying to do more of what was already working. So trying to get more partnership because I was trying to get more in the acquisition part, you know, and I had this thought about if what i'm doing right now isn't working, maybe I should just do something that is that I didn't try to know to get results. You don't have you have to do things you you universes, basically.

And so I started to focus on my witnesses instead of focusing on my strength. And so that's why I started to focus on turn. So I hired someone for marketing at this moment and his job in the beginning, with only to get people in cal to understand why they were living or why they were staying on the APP.

Like we put the strategy because we have a problem with shop for apps, is that people don't reply to emails like only a few people who like to to. So what we did is that we call people at the moment they were on in the dashboard basically. So when they are in the dashboard, we person a message to our slack channel with some information, for example, how long they have been in here with us, how much money they've made with our apps and stuff like that, basically many different information.

And the moment when we receive the message, we go on our platform. So we are we are using crisp and we can like engage with them um with the live chat that in the APP and will try to get them in a call that way so we can understand more about like their business, what they do, what they like and then you know we'll try to notice like who are the people who really love the APP? Who are the people who might live and why and based on that would say, okay, what do we need to do what do we need to improve um who do we need to target like maybe you can target the people who really love the up and less the people who are just like, yeah you up is good but it's just because I didn't find anything else and based on that you will improve IT.

So what we did for examples that we had like a third person turn on White bundle um but we had like a lot of a new user so IT wasn't the problem um but we started to work on IT and since I had someone dedicated to that part, we started to to get like the child that was thirty person to twenty five persons and when you go from thirty to twenty five, IT changes a lot of things right like five person is um is a lot and so we started to grow again. And then what this person did was doing more of what I was already doing, but I couldn't do more myself because I was alone working on everything. This person started to get more partnerships, so with a different apps, so doing more of them because he could focus on IT.

So we started to do more of that, more of affiliates. So basically more of what was already do working. And so by focusing on, like, you know, your weaknesses, so for me, I was turn and by like increasing what was already working, we started to see a gap and we started to crown again.

I love that when people take about marketing and when they approach marketing, like acquisition is kind of the thing that comes the most to mine, right? How do you grow? How do you do do more and get bigger? And one of the insight that you had was to think about how people were were getting filter out, how people are turning and you focus on that and grew.

The really call thing about your position is that like since you're building tools for shop of five merchants, you probably have some unique insights into the industry. So i'm kind of curious about that. Is anything that you know about shop fight, the shop lifed business, the industry that other people might not .

know yeah first of all, um many people are opening shop five store and close them like right away like I don't know why, but like sometimes they stay only one month of the platform. So for example, if we take our turn, which is like twenty five persons out of this, twenty five twenty percent are for people who just open close shop five shoppy sopp fy store.

So basically they are not users that you can like keep because they just close the store. And this is something like many, many. And we see the same thing like we have other shop fight up owners, is that we have many people who just close the pacify store coveted was crazy like the number of install, right? But then we started to like decrease.

And today it's like we started to grow again. So maybe like the the e commerce will start to grow again because today it's not like you know us coffee coffee was like crazy for for e commerce. But we started to to see some more traction, the different shop fice store and look like that. So maybe in the coming months, IT will grow again.

See, you've got multiple shop five apps. How much of your you make like thirty seven thousand dollars a month? How much of that comes from wide bundle charge fifteen .

box a month for ninety five nine?

Yeah.

basically what I wanted to do in the beginning was to build five shop fy apps to have like that pull shop five APP where you can like up, sell the APP with, uh, to to the other users. So I built White bone done. We started to grow IT.

And then I said, OK, let's be another rap. But the only thing is that when I saw the work that he was already for one APP, I said, okay, let's just stick to what we have. And right now, we are focusing only on so we don't have any other partnerships with wide review.

We don't have any F D S. We don't have anything. So is just the shop for up store and so yeah ninety five persons is for White bundle make sense.

And that's a super impressed because you only charge fifteen box .

box wide and we have almost three thousand users yeah three thousand .

paying customers and saying usually conversion rates like one percent or something for most sas applications. And so to get that people you know hundreds of thousands of people to try a really hiking version rates your superpower liars.

Something that is great about commission rate and and is due to the to the shop for co system is that people don't have to add the credit card ds when they installed the shop APP, you know because the credit card is already on drop fy, so they don't have to do IT, so we can charge them directly. They don't have to think about IT.

Um secondly is that we like it's a shop for APP, right? So when people installed the ad, they feel like it's part of shop fy. So we already have the trust from shop fy. We have shop py brand basically.

So you know when you installed your side, you usually you asking yourself like will IT work like is the team good enough and stuff and you start to ask stuff about like the business more about like tool. And for shop five apps, it's like your starting something from sharp fy. So you already trust them. You don't have any problem with that. And so he increased his conversion, right?

So super a good reason to shop for up. Listen that we will take time, your time. Get one more question before you get out of here. Uh, evc had quite the journey as a founder from tell your mom and going to a million air to like actually you know working away there. Um what's something that you think people who are just getting started to take away from your journey, not necessarily that was brought advice, but the very specific that that you found helpful that wish other new entrepreneurs good .

that um maybe two things being an entrepreneur a like never give up basically because most part of your entrepreneurship journey would be about fAiling. And you need to fail to want to stand exactly what you need to do. Because even if someone tells you, like this is how you should do IT like, you don't really know if you didn't fail before.

So this is the first thing. So basically, when you fail and when you don't have something like going, you just found a way not to do something, but you can keep going. And then if I can give an advice like more business specific um this advice that I think would have saved me a lot of time is stopped with a problem, not an A G .

beautiful. Well, uh, where can people go to find more about you like .

twitter and uh yeah on twitter so um D S M A T I E uh on twitter and uh yeah basically you will find me here anywhere and on twitter will find like everything else, everything else.

Thanks time that coming on the show.

Yeah, thank you for having me 有点。