Let Them be A**holes
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So are we supposed to start the podcast? Ready? One, two, three. All right, listen up. This is the rebellion. And what we say here is patriots, gay-triots, they-triots. That's right. Pumps, what have you had it with? Okay, what I've had it with is when internet stalking goes so wrong.

And this happened to me very recently. I have a few accounts that just for my own personal amusement that I stalk. Yeah. Because I'm just like, I cannot believe this is on the internet. Like they put it on there. Not like hidden camera. And the other day I was going through one of my stalker accounts and I liked it. I liked it. And now they know that I stalk them. And it's so embarrassing. You liked their post? Yes. I was trying to enlarge it.

And I liked it. See, this is my worst nightmare with you. It's horrible. I'll be like, oh, my God, look at what such and such posted. You're like, oh, my God, let me see. Let me see. And you're grabbing your glasses. And I just immediately start like cringing, throw in a kegel for good measure. And I'm like, do not double tap it, pumps. Pumps, do not. Ow, ow, ow. Shit.

Sure enough. Yeah. And see, I've done that to Emily's phone, my daughter's phone, like two or three times. And she gets so mad. Child abuse. And I'm just like, oh, whatever. Who cares? That is child abuse. But when I did it to myself, I was just like, okay, I owe her an apology because it's really bad. Because it's like the minute you see the heart, you're like, oh, it's humiliating. Oh, my God. Did I ever tell you about the time one of my dearest girlfriends forever? It was when email first came out.

And she was emailing at work and an email from a guy that she dated came in. And at the same time, an email from her friend saying how was the date came in. So she accidentally responded to what she thought was her friend and started describing how she didn't think she could go out with him again because he had this weird odor that he had this smell on his breath that was like vomit. Right.

And he was cute enough and entertaining, but it was just this reek smell, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And if you knew her, you would know that she would go on and on in describing exactly the smell. Then she hits send. And she realizes it was to him. And she runs into like the computer room. It's like, you have to get it back. Like, you can't get it back. And he just responded, I guess we won't be seeing each other again. I mean, that's bad.

There is nothing more terrifying than sending a text to the wrong person. Oftentimes during the day I have my text pulled up on my desktop or on my laptop because then I can use full 10 digits to fire off texts from my keyboard. And it's some looking at an email, looking at a website, texts are right there. Oftentimes you see one come in and you just respond, but you're not in the right thread. Yeah.

So I haven't had anything that bad, but there have been some that I've sent and then I just like, I'm like, oops, sorry about that. That was intended for another thread. And normally they're fine. You just, hey, sorry, that was the wrong text thread. I have talked about somebody, like we were in a group text and then I went off with another person in the group text and started talking about one of the people on the group text and accidentally sent it to the group text.

So she knew what I was saying about her.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it happens. That might have been a hashtag blessed blessing because now this person that you didn't like knows for sure. We don't like each other. Yeah. And you don't have to feign kindness. Zero feigning. Right. It's just like she trashed me in the group text. I hate her. She hates me. We're done. Right. There's something tidy, clean, and respectable about that. Yeah. I wasn't near as upset about it as the other people I was texting with that were just like, I did it. And then I hopped in the shower. Yeah.

And I get out and my phone is blown up. Oh, my God, you sent that in the wrong text. And my phone's ringing. And I'm like, well, all right. How bad was it? What'd you say? I think I said she was cheap and obnoxious, which to be fair, she was. Well, of course. Yeah. I mean, if you say it, especially being, you know, the world class attorney that you are, you're not going to slander yourself in some tech stream unless in fact she was cheap and obnoxious. Yeah. All right. Let me tell you what I've had it with. I have had it with my cat.

And listener, I just have to go through this with you all again because Pumps is aware of some of it. Y'all aren't aware of all of it. But I have the cat. She's female. Her name is Kitsky. And we adopted the cat. We had hashtag adopt, didn't shop. I adopted the cat for my children because I had another cat that hated the children and loved me. And so I got this cute little black and white cat named Kitsky.

She's had a lot of problems. We've had asthma. Asthma's in remission. We had diabetes. Diabetes was in remission. Diabetes comes back. Diabetes goes back into remission again. Well, just the other day, last week, as a matter of fact, Pumps and I are at lunch and the mobile veterinarian swung by my house to do her quote senior blood work because she is like 16 or 17 years old and

And they called me while Pumps and I were dining to give me the update on her blood work. And it just goes like this. I'm like, hello. And they're like, great news. Kiske's diabetes is still in remission. And I hear Pumps hears them say this and she goes, oh, for fuck's sake. Because everybody knows Pumps wants to kill my cat.

And so they go on and on that there's possibly a kidney marker, possibly not. She has arthritis, all of these things, right? But the main thing they're zeroing in on is that the cat needs a medical bath because as established on this podcast, she's let herself go and she's not grooming herself. So I said, okay, I consent to the medical bath if you pick her up.

take her somewhere and bathe her and then drop her back off. I can't have any part of it. I can't get scratch. I don't want to go the trauma of it. I've got this podcast I've got to record. I just need for you all to do the bath. Fine. No problem. Can I just interject? She had the bath because she has mats and dandruff. Right. She needed a bath. Okay. But dandruff. She has dandruff. She has cat dandruff. Okay. Okay.

So, vet calls me, "Hey, I'm going in your house to get the cat. I'll have her back by the time you get home from work." "Great, thanks so much," I say to her. I get home from work and I have a hairless cat. My cat's completely bald. She is, I have a bald cat. I literally have a cat that is in asthma remission, twice diabetes remission.

used to be a fluffy cat, not like a Persian, but a lot of hair, you know, an American short hair. Now I've got a hairless cat. I've got a hairless fucking cat on my hands here. She's got hair on her face and she has a little ball of hair on her tail. But other than that, she's bald. She's bald. The medical bath was a shave job. It was, there was no, no bath. It was a haircut. It was a haircut. It was a haircut.

And I just thought it was so funny because it was startling. It was like, oh my gosh. Well, you can imagine my surprise. Yeah. When I came home from work and I hear her going, meow. So I go over to see her and I'm just like, wow, I happened. Medical bath did not in my brain equate to shaving. Right. It must have been bad.

I think the vet was just like, fuck it. And then of course it snows for like two days there. So she's freezing and I'm not completely heartless. I'm going to cover her up, you know, make sure she's all warm. But I just want to take a little stroll down memory lane that this cat we adopted in like 2008 and it is a she and her name is Kitsky around, I would say 2016, 17, possibly 18.

So we've had the cat well over a decade at this point. The mobile vet wasn't able to do everything she needed to do in the house. So I told Josh, I'm slammed today. I need for you to drop that cat off at the vet. And here's the address. And you have to fill out the paperwork for her.

So, again, I just want to remind everybody, Kitsky and a she. And at this point, we've had the cat for over 10 years. The vet calls us and leaves this voicemail. Kylie, play it. Hi, this is Allison calling from Glen Eagles Pet Hospital. And we were just calling to let you know that Katsky is a she. So we have a female cat. And also to let you know that we're going to... Okay, so I just want to say...

That all Josh had to do was walk in and fill out the paperwork. Right. That it was a female and the cat's name was Kitsky. And he reported the cat as Katsky and as a male. So the vet called us to tell us that our female cat that everybody bloody well knew was a female, was in fact a female. I take exception to the term everybody because we have one person in your house that didn't. I know.

Tell them what he said to the vet when they came to do her senior blood work. Okay. So I had to leave the day that they came that led up to the bath. I had to leave super early in the morning. So I left around 7. Josh probably left around like 8.30 that morning. And the mobile vets coming into the house and they're like,

Hey, we're here to check on Kitski. Any improvements? What's going on? How's the diabetes? How's the asthma? And Josh goes, I'm just going to stop everybody right there. I don't know anything that's going on with that cat. I don't know if she's better. I don't know if she's worse. I don't know if she's okay. I don't know if she's not okay. I just live here with her. And the vets were kind of like, okay. Okay. So yeah, and then I came home that night. We all came home to a hairless cat.

I mean, it's pretty funny. The hairless cat. I have a hairless cat. You do. And here's the thing. Like, I keep thinking one of these senior blood work checks is going to come back. We've got stage five cancer. I don't even know if there is a stage five. I think it only goes to four. Right. But I'm thinking that's what we're about to get. Nope. She's great. In fact, when I heard the vet talking, I was hoping she said we checked for kidney markers. And I thought, there we go.

Yeah. Kidney failure. Kidney. We got some kidney issues with the old cat. Nope. Came out smelling like a rose. Strong kidney. I will note to you the exact year ago, senior checkup, blood work checkup, we did have a kidney issue. And I believe now that's in remission. I didn't even know diabetes could go in remission, to be real honest. This cat is amazing. I'm just, it's, I'm curious if now she's going to get hypothermia because she's hairless. Welcome to I've Had It. I'm Jennifer. I'm Angie. I'm Angie.

She wants to kill my cat. See, I feel like that's strong. Do you think I should put the cat down? Yes. But that doesn't mean I want you to kill the cat. That's exactly what that means. Well, it means to go to the vet. It's exactly what it means. You just don't like how direct it is. I just don't like to kill. What is euthanasia? What is it? I mean, it's death. I get that, but it's...

It's not. Let me say it for go strangle the cat. Let me tell you what the kids on the internet say. What? Pumps wants me to unalive my cat. Not you personally, but I think you should just hurry the vet along. This reminds me. Do you remember the movie A Few Good Men? Did you order the code red? I would say I did order the code red.

Yeah. Pumps ordered the coat red. Yeah, I would. Pumps has ordered a coat red on Kitsky, who's now fucking hairless. Hairless Kitsky. Kylie, what do you think? I'm really picking on the little. Do you think I should kill the cat? I don't know about killing it, but I do really hate cats. So I have a hard time empathizing with them.

I really feel bad for her. I think she's kind of embarrassed now that she doesn't have hair. She's naked. And knowing that Pumps ordered the code red. Yeah. It's also so much worse that she has hair on her face. That's like when someone's naked but with socks on. Yeah. It's like way more naked somehow. You know what you're supposed to say, Jack Nicklaus and Jack Nicklaus. You're goddamn right I did. No, you're goddamn right. Yes. Say it again. You're goddamn right I did. Yeah, that's it. I ordered the code red.

Do you know that movie, Kylie? I do not. Oh my God. You don't? I haven't seen it. You don't know A Few Good Men? I know it exists. I've never watched it. Tom Cruise? It's a great movie. Demi Moore? Demi Moore. Jack Nicholson. I love Demi Moore. Or is it Nichola? Jack Nicholson. Is it Nicholson? Somebody's a golfer. Nicholson. Nicholson. Jack Nicholson. Yeah, he's fabulous. Nicholas is the golfer. Yeah, Demi Moore's fabulous. What about Jack Nicholson in Here's Johnny? Johnny!

I haven't seen that movie forever. Okay. Okay. I have a poem that I'm going to read you. Wait, did you write it? Did a listener write it? Where'd it come from? A listener wrote it. A listener named David Franklin emailed this to us. Okay. And he writes dedicated with love and respect to Jennifer Welch and Angie pumps Sullivan. Okay.

With voices strong and humor so real, the I've Had It podcast gives you the feel of truth and laughter and honest flair, a space to vent to let down your hair. With every episode, a new rant begins about the little things that make our heads spin. From pet peeves to moments that frustrate, they've got the stories we can all relate.

From everyday annoyances to bigger gripes, they speak for us all, no sugar or types. With sharp wit and wisdom, they take the lead, turning life's troubles into what we all need. They'll call out the quirks, the things we all know, the things that we see but never quite show. No topic too big, no gripe too small, on I've had it, they cover it all.

So tune in and listen. Let them share the truth. For we all need a place to voice our proof. In a world full of noise, they're a welcome sound that I've had at podcasts where honesty is found.

Oh my gosh. That's like the nicest thing ever. And it's so well done. I mean, that is like an ode. That's what I was just going to say. It's like an ode. It's an ode to us. And I don't know. I mean, you ordered the Code Red, but you still get that much love. I know. That's how dynamic and magnanimous you are. That's right. That's why you're the star of the show.

Thank you, David Franklin. Yes, thank you so much, David Franklin. That is amazing. To take the time and the care and the creativity. It's just, that is love. I thought it was breathtaking. It really is. It really is breathtaking. Any reviews? Yeah, I've got one five-star review I want to read you. Okay. Like a balm to my soul is what it's titled.

This show is such a bright spot in my otherwise curmudgeonly day. Y'all are going to carry me through this hellscape that will be the next four years. Thanks for all you do, for all the laughs, and for saying what many of us think. Every time Jen says riffraff and knickknack, my life is extended by a year. So I'm going to live forever, I think. Anyway, love y'all. You know, that just, I love that review. Thank you very much for the five stars. And I just want to revisit.

for just a second that the incoming president of the United States runs a flea market on the internet and it's full of riffraffs and knickknacks and that just

There are so many things to focus on that are so immoral and awful and depressing and daunting to think about. So sometimes I just grab something that just I can completely wrap my hands around. And I'm like, the president of the United States that told a great, I'm a billionaire. I don't have to beg people for money. I'm so rich. I'm so hot. I'm so tan. I have great hair. Yuck, yuck, blah, blah.

literally runs an online flea market where he sells Bibles, cologne,

Christmas ornaments, talking Trump fish, all sorts of crazy shit. It's so trashy. We have like white trash president. It's humiliating. It's embarrassing. And I just want everybody to know we will not pre-surrender. They will have to drag us off in cuffs. We will never give up our first amendment right. And we will bash this motherfucker until our dying days. Starting with his makeup.

Everything else. All the way to the flea market. All the way to the flea market. All right. I have some news I would like to share with the class today. People who enjoy dark humor are smarter and more emotionally stable, study says.

According to a study, fans of dark humor tend to have higher education levels, lower aggression, and better emotional regulation. Why? Because understanding this type of humor is no simple task. It takes abstract thinking, emotional intelligence, and the ability to process contradictions. Dark humor often combines satire, sarcasm, and irony, weaving together deeper social or cultural commentary.

And I love dark humor so much. Yeah, that makes me feel smart. Yeah. And I would argue that our listeners, because we provide a lot of dark humor, I think listeners, what we are doing here is confirming that we are all, it says here, smarter and more emotionally stable. Well, I don't think there's any question about that. Here's the only thing that kills me about it.

The only thing I'm not good at in terms of what that list was like really terrible at is determining what satire and what's real. We've become this world where half the shit that's real I think is satire. You know? Well, I mean, yeah. When you see like somebody like Marjorie Taylor Greene say that –

Democrats are controlling the weather. You think she fucking with us. Right. Is Ashton Kutcher about to come in and tell us we're getting punked and she's actually a congresswoman? Or you hear Moses Mike Johnson talk about, yeah, God's waking me up every night. Tell me I'm Moses. And you're like, he's joking, right? No, they're dead serious. So sometimes I think it is difficult to know. But like the onion, they're great. Oh, my God. It's so funny. I love it. Yeah. In Trump's America, it's hard to know facts from fiction. Yeah.

All right, listener, we have a guest today. You probably know her or have heard of her. If you haven't, we'll introduce you to her. Her name is Mel Robbins. She is an award-winning podcast host, New York Times bestselling author, and one of the most followed and sought after experts in mindset, behavior change, and life improvement. Anyway, let's welcome to I've Had It, Mel Robbins.

Listener, this may come as a total shock to you, but Pumps and I have not always been this pulled together and rock solid. In fact, we used to be rather screwed up when you say Pumps. I would say damn near psychotic. Totally. And we have written a cell phone expose. One could even say it's a manifesto. And the book title is...

Life is a lazy Susan of shit sandwiches. In all sincerity, we share a lot of our struggles that led us to this grand stage where we can talk about petty grievances. You can click the link below in the show notes to pre-order your copy now.

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That's pretty litter.com slash had it to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. Pretty litter.com slash had it terms and conditions apply. Please see site for details. Okay. Let's welcome to I've had it. Mel Robbins. Mel, how are you today?

Today, I'm actually really good. How are you two doing? That's really good, but we need you to get kind of cranky for our podcast. Oh, get fucking ready because I haven't eaten. So it's about to be like cranky and hangry and I'm ready. All right. I'm going to start it. What have you had it with, Mel? Oh my God. I've had it...

with the headlines. I've had it with narcissistic and inconsiderate and immature behavior. I've had it with...

Oh, I've had it with the number of fricking cardboard boxes that come in the house and that are so hard to, you know how hard it is to like flatten those things. It drives me fricking crazy. I've had it with my dog barking all the time. I've had it with certain people's moods in my life. I've had it with how tired I am at the end of the day.

and how that's impacting my sex life. Like, do you want me to keep going? Let's start dissecting those one by one. What have you had it with today? I'll tell you, I'd like to hone in on this narcissistic behavior. Okay, let's go. Because I'm very reminded of it.

all of the time and segueing over to the first thing you mentioned, which was the headlines. And the headlines perfectly dovetail into narcissistic behavior. And I don't know how I'm going to get through this.

uh here's how you're going to get through it you're going to let them and i'm going to tell you why so narcissistic behavior and personality styles this blew my mind when i learned this and i learned this from dr ramani diversola who's the world's leading expert on narcissism did you know that narcissists are not born that way

Really? I didn't know that. I didn't. So there's two basic ways. Either there's a complete overindulgence of the child and there is a messaging that we are better than. And so that is the narcissistic style that you see in people that are over the top and completely rude to other people and completely entitled. And there's so much of that in our society today.

And it is, I'm done with it. I've had it, right? Right. But you've got to let them be who they are. Because the number one rule about narcissistic behavior is that they're never going to change. Right. Most people who have a narcissistic personality style do not know that they do.

because it's all they've ever known since childhood. And that brings me to the second way that narcissistic personality styles are cemented in childhood. And this is the very sad way. It is through emotional neglect and abuse.

See, there's a certain behavior range during which empathy develops in a human being. And once that range actually passes in terms of the age range where this thing called attribution and empathy, you're able to actually understand it and practice it. If you pass that window, it's not coming back.

And what happens for kids that are emotionally neglected or abused is that because they're not seen and because they feel invisible and because they're not getting their needs met through no fault of their own because they're a child.

They put up these walls with the world around them to protect themselves, and they never develop this ability to step into somebody else's shoes and consider how they might feel. And this explains a lot of our parents. A lot of our parents never actually got the emotional kind of nurturing or their needs met. And that brings me to saying let them.

with anybody in your life that's narcissistic, and this is particularly true with family members, is there is nothing that you can do that will ever change who this person is. And the more that you play into the dynamic with them, the more stress it's going to create for you because you keep showing up hoping, hoping that they will change.

And I'm here to tell you the power's never in the other person. The power is in you and your response to the other person. And that's how you take responsibility for yourself. That's how you take responsibility for the relationship. Because responsibility is just the ability to respond. And responding differently to immature people, inconsiderate people, stressed out people, or narcissistic personality styles, that changes everything.

Okay. So let me just give you a hypothetical here. Get it. We have a narcissist in our lives that is in charge of around 330 million people. And by your logic, we have to quote, let him. But that narcissist

Puts us in a precarious position because then we feel like we're pre surrendering to this person's demands and normalizing it. And so our listeners and pumps in me have a lot of anxiety and stress surrounding what's going to happen to us and particularly more marginalized people than us and feel like forming a

rebellion, a community to commiserate and empower one another is a way to combat this. So how do you take your prescription and put it on a large scale where the narcissist is in charge of a lot of things for a lot of people? And it's very terrifying. Can you help us and our listeners? Yes, I can. So there is absolutely nothing you can do.

Nothing you can do to stop this person from acting out, from being basically a six-year-old entitled child, throwing a tantrum inside a big body, breaking laws, saying whatever they want to say, doing whatever they want to do. Nothing you can do to stop that person's actions, opinions, thoughts, behavior.

So focusing on that person is a complete waste of your time and energy. Allowing that person to terrorize you or to make you afraid does not empower you to actually do the second part of my let them theory, which is when you say, let me.

Let me remind myself that I always have power. Let me remind myself that no matter what idiot is in office or behind the microphone, I still have control over my thoughts and what I do in response. I still have control over my feelings. And if this person scares me, I've given them power. If this person makes me feel small, I've given them power.

Let me remind you what Professor Margaret Mead said, which is true about history. All it's ever taken is a small group of concerned citizens to change history. And if you're concerned about what's happening, don't commiserate, get into action. Focus on what your response is going to be instead of anticipating what this idiot is going to say.

because we all know he's going to break the law. We all know he's going to do things that are crazy. We all know that he's going to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. Why? Because this is what he's always done. He's an agitator for crying out loud. So why on earth would you allow this person to agitate you? You're

You're not. You're going to let them be who they are. But then you're going to focus on the let me part. Let me be the wiser, smarter fox in this situation. And while the hen is clucking around the farmyard, kicking up all kinds of dust, doing a bunch of nothing, I am going to be outsmarting this person because I'm going to take my time and energy and I'm not going to be commiserating because I know that anytime I'm bitching about this person, I'm actually giving them power. I'm going to focus on how I'm going to respond.

And by the way, we're going to be ready four years from now because he's going to make a giant mess. Let me ask you this. What does it say about us that we enjoy commiserating about it? That I kind of get a dopamine and serotonin hit going off about it. What does that reveal about pumps in me? It reveals that you're human because we bond by what's in common. Right. Right.

And so it has been around since the history of time that we have all bonded over our shared enemy. We have bonded over the things that we feel we're against. And what my message is, is this. It doesn't matter what's happening outside of you. What matters and where the power is, is in here inside of you.

And what this moment is telling me, and I think why these words, let them and let me, are resonating, is because, you know, we do live in a moment of time where the headlines are terrifying, where politics, whether you live in the United States or anywhere around the world, are scary. I mean, look at the fires that are spreading all over the place, you know, in California right now.

And the truth is, there are always going to be things outside of your control. And there are moments in life where it is appropriate to mourn and to bitch and to commiserate and to be scared and to grieve. And then there will come a moment where you got to pick yourself back up and you got to recognize that your power is not in the things you can't control.

Your power and the possibility in your life is in your response and in what you can control, which is what you think, say, and do in response. And so, you know, to me, I've already given four years to this idiot. I'm not going to give a single fucking second to him again. And I'm going to focus on what I think and what I say and what I do and showing up in a way in my life and in my community and on the issues that I care about.

in a way that makes me proud of myself because that's where my power is. Because you have power over getting out of bed and putting one foot in front of the other and how you show up today. And that's where you need to focus your energy.

I really like the phrasing, let them and let me. And I can relate to it very much so because my husband is a recovering drug addict and he's been to rehab five times. And that was very challenging. We had very small children at the peak of a lot of this.

So I would go to Al-Anon and their phrasing was, "Let go, let God." Well, I'm an atheist and so I was like, "Oh, God." So I'm like, "Let go, let God. What the fuck is he going to do?" That was my mindset. I remember, and it takes a long time to let them, to let go. It takes a long time for that to sink in because intellectually,

I understood that his crazy train took off from the station long before I jumped on it and I was a mere passenger and that I had the power to jump off. You know, in the early stages, you have children and it felt very unnatural when you have really small children. It's almost like we're genetically encoded. It felt very unnatural to think about separating from him. And he wasn't an abusive person.

I mean, addicts by nature, what they do is and feels abusive. Josh really had just a horrible opioid addiction and he was aware of it and always constantly tried to get better. But opiates kind of get their claws in you and it's very, very difficult for people to overcome it.

And I wanted to believe in him. I also think that I was damaged too. I mean, that was, you know, damaged people choose damaged people. And so I had to work on myself, but it takes a really long time because intellectually somebody can understand, let them, but your heart has different plans. And finally, I realized that I achieved a level of personal growth where my intellect and my heart were

Were simpatico where they were moving at the same time because for a solid decade, Mel, I was a catastrophe. Intellectually, I understood all of it. Here is a peak, peak, crazy moment for me. I was on the phone with a friend of ours named Libby and I'm telling her on the phone.

He is such a disaster. And my husband's in rehab at the time. I'm not going to speak to him anymore. I am drawing a boundary. I have had it. I'm not going to put up with his shit anymore. Yack, yack, yack, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, you go, girl. You got this. I go, hang on. Somebody's calling me on the other line. I look over and I go, I got to let you go. It's Josh. And I clicked over. Yeah.

So that's a prime moment where my intellect, I knew what I needed to do. But the minute I saw him, my heart just, you know, it was just too impulsive. And so it's really difficult to get those two things aligned. And

I know that this is something from the program where they say fake it till you make it. But I literally kind of had to do that. I had to practice letting him like realizing no matter what I did, he was a broken drug addict. And that was his like that. Right. I didn't have anything to do with that. It just took such a long time for me to get. He's sober now. We're as happy as every other married couple, you know, which is actually I think you're happier. And I want to I want to unpack a couple of things.

So number one, one of the most profound things that has not left me since I spoke to some psychologists and psychiatrists and neuroscientists and researching, like why the hell does let them and let me work, right? Is somebody said people only get sober when being drunk or drugged is harder than doing the very difficult work to change and address the things you're running from.

And it's a really important statement because what none of us realize is that people only change when they're ready to do the work to change.

And that's not an easy thing for anybody to do because the brain in a human being is wired to do what's easy and pleasurable right now. This is why we sit on the couch instead of going for a run. It's why someone's listening to this. The person listening to this podcast has probably thought about starting a podcast. It's easier to listen than to start one. In order to change

You have to fight against human wiring and do something that's very hard and do it over and over and over again. This is why people don't change until they're ready to change. They're not going to change for you. They won't change for their kids. They don't change for anybody but themselves because you have to get to a point. I mean, this was me. This was my story. And I realized at some point you're going to hit your own rock bottom in life when you just go,

I don't know what I want, but I don't fucking want this. And you don't have to know what you want in life to change your life. You just have to be willing to admit that what you're doing isn't working anymore. And I do believe that people are one decision away from a different life. And the decision that changed mine was deciding to get out of fucking bed one morning on a Tuesday morning in 2008 when I didn't think it would make a difference to get out of bed.

Instead of laying in bed like a human pot roast, marinating in fear and anxiety and overwhelm and thinking about all my problems and how mad I was at my husband, embarrassed I was at where we are. And we pulled the kids out of town soccer because we couldn't afford it. Getting out of bed, five, four, three, two, one, boom, move, taught me that number one, no one's coming. You got to do it yourself. Number two, you can take action when you don't feel like it.

And when you learn that that's a skill to do something, even though you don't feel like it's going to work, even though you don't feel motivated, learning how to do that is a superpower. And that's what put me on a whole different train. And what I want to say to you is that over and over and over again, and listening to you, you did step two of the let them theory. You kept saying, let me.

Every time he relapsed, you were saying to yourself, let me remind myself of who I married. Let me remind myself that this isn't my train wreck, it's his. Let me remind myself I'm going to stay. And in doing so, you created space for him to heal on his own timeline, which is not an easy thing to do. And you also created space for you to take ownership of your part of it, which is I'm in this codependent thing and this is shit from my childhood.

And in staying, you made a decision, the two of you, to work through things that probably would have been repeated in your children had you not done the work. And now you're in this incredible relationship where you've got two people coming and choosing to be together. And I think that's an incredible thing. I mean, I've been married 28 years and

You can look at my relationship now and it's the best it's ever been. But we have been like you through like neck deep manure. Oh, yeah. For a long time. And, you know, in a relationship, I think I often think in a marriage like it's a lot like being on a seesaw. Sometimes you're up, they're up, you're down, they're down. Sometimes you're in balance. The key is.

to a lasting relationship is first of all both people have to want it to work yeah and both people have to do the work to make it work and the in any relationship that blows off you'll notice that way before it blew up uh somebody got off the seesaw

And you stayed on. I'm not advocating for everybody to stay on because I think oftentimes you need to leave. But you made an empowered choice. And I think what you got in return is probably a relationship that is a hundred times deeper and more powerful and unshakable than what you had before. Oh, it's...

It isn't even comparable. And I'll tell you, sometimes Josh and I will sit up at night and we have a son that's a senior in college at Syracuse. And our youngest son is about to graduate from high school. And they're like much better people than Josh and I are. Josh and I are shallow, vapid, pretentious. No, you're not. Love to go shopping and just do a lot of frivolous things. Our kids are...

They thrift, they go thrifting and they are just really good human beings. And I'll look at him and I'll say, it's good to know that all of that shit that we went through and by never, we never lied to our kids. I never lied to them about what was going on. I told them age appropriate responses as to what was going on with their dad. I never picked up the rug and swept it under because I know how much anxiety that would have caused them. And I never bad mouthed.

Their dad because there were stints where he just couldn't live with us because he was too off the rails and I would you know say you need to leave I don't want the kids to see you like this but I never bad mouthed him to the kids and I fucked up so many things Mel but the one thing that I'm like can go you can put on her tombstone.

She never called him a son of a bitch to the kids. And I could have, but I knew that that would damage them because yeah, he was a son of a bitch as is every other addict. They all are when they're in peak addict. But I agree with you. You know, it's, it's good to connect. Can I, can I just highlight that? Because I think this, one of the biggest things that people do

in their marriages that destroy their children is they trash their partner or their ex to their children. And when somebody does that, that is a sign of massive emotional immaturity. It is a form, in my opinion, of abuse. I agree. To do that to your children. And so the fact that you were able to hold your shit together

through five relapses and everything that you're not and actually hold a line with yourself so let him be in his addiction and let me stay in my power and hold this boundary with myself because that's what i value

That is not a casual thing. That is not something that most people can do. And I'm going to tell you something. If I roles were reversed and Chris had been relapsing five times, I would have fucking bad mouthed him to those children. I would have created alliances because I did not know what I know now.

and i was a walking red flag in the level of emotional maturity that way and so i just want to applaud you because that is not a little thing that is everything well and i want to tell the listeners because i know probably a lot of people have a husband or wife or parent that's an addict

And I know how difficult it is. And as we're saying, you know, I did this one thing right and I did do this one thing right, but nothing about this time period was attractive. My behavior all in all wasn't the most attractive. Where I failed is oftentimes I had a hard time emotionally connecting with my children.

So I would turn on auto mom and make sure they had food in front of them. Their lunches were packed. And if the house burned down, I would remove them from it. I wasn't capable of doing a lot of things beyond this. I was sleepless. I wanted to pull my hair up by the root. I could barely eat. I mean, it was a very traumatic time. But I think for any listener listening to this, when you find yourself in these situations, you have to.

Everything, your thoughts and everything are so scattered. You have to pick a few truths that you can hold the line and your love for a child is

For me, it could supersede my most toxic instincts. And so thank you because I did a lot of other fucked up stuff during that time period. I mean, I launched investigations. I followed him. I broke into phone records. I did all sorts of FBI investigations. Of course. But I spared the kids. Because you think you're going crazy. Totally. And here's the other thing I want to say about this. And this again goes to, there's one thing in life you can't control. It's another person.

And what they think, do, say, feel, what they believe, and you also cannot control when they heal. And what I wanted to say about this that I think is really important if you're really struggling right now is that that auto mom mode...

I would call that middle school and high school for my children. I was in that mode because my husband ultimately left the restaurant business. And if we were going to save the house and ever pay the bills, it was on me. And so I went into go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go mode, working three jobs. My husband's getting sober. He's bottomed out. He's taking care of the kids. I was not present. But here's how I want to relieve anybody of the guilt.

Because you're going to look back or in the middle of it, you're going to feel guilty because I'm not present with my kids. I'm exhausted. I can't do this. I can't be there. Think about what you value. What is your highest value? And for me in that period of our life with liens on the house and bills sky high and my husband trying to like overcome depression and alcoholism and me, like I got to pay the bills. I got to pay the bills. I got to keep the lights on. I got to, my highest value is safety.

And when you're in debt to that extent, it is an excruciating and relentless level of anxiety.

I was able to go on to autopilot mom mode like you were and not punish myself because I kept reminding myself I'm focused on the most important thing right now. I have a hard time sometimes identifying what my value is in certain situations though. Like what, like, is it fear? Am I reacting out of fear? Am I reacting out of hurt? Am I reacting out of

um, just not wanting to do it. Like, so sometimes I have a hard time, like, like when you were saying identifying your value, like safety, I'm like going through the list and I'm thinking, okay, yeah, that makes perfect sense. What I've seen that I'm, I know you have the five second rule on the instinct. My instincts are terrible, Mel. So I'm just, I don't think that's true. I think your instincts are dead on. I think you've gotten very good at ignoring them. That's probably right.

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All right, Mel, now we are going to lighten it up and play a game called Hat It or Hit It. Oh my God. Welcome to Hat It or Hit It. I would hit it. Hat It. I hit it every day, sometimes twice a day. All right, Hat It or Hit It, being the bigger person. Oh, hit it.

I mean, I get here intellectually. I agree. It's always good to be the bigger person. And I like to look up at that high road and think about me up there in a big puffer going, it's so cold up here on the high road. But sometimes when we're on our other podcast where it's about politics, we kind of take the low road. But we're going to start implementing the let them, let me. Well, here's what I'm going to say about that. I actually think the high road

feels superior. It does. Because if I take the low road, then I just gave power to somebody I despise and I refuse to do it. I think that's really good. I agree with that. Sometimes though, I think...

They went low and I want to go lower. I want to go lower. That's okay. You've got a punch beneath the gut. And also like keep in mind when you're in that show, that's the like the point of the show is to talk politics and you got to get in there. Like if somebody throws a punch, you're going to throw a punch back. But in life...

I used to take the low road. I used to be tit for tat. I used to be transactional and have to get the last word in. And what I've realized is there's just so much more fucking power in not playing the game, not taking the bait. All right. Had it or hit it, helicopter moms. Oh, had it.

You're creating anxiety in your kids. You're causing them to fail. You are making them dependent upon you and making them doubt themselves. I think that when you start doing for kids...

what they should do for themselves. You are giving them a subliminal message. I don't think you're capable or able to do this. And I think it's self-esteem reducing for a child whose mother always does everything for them. And a lot of the kids that I know whose mothers do everything for them have debilitating anxiety.

Of course, because you are through your own actions, allowing your worry and your anxiety to have you step in and write the paper or the college essay exam or call the coach and bitch about something. Like, I think it's honestly disgusting. I remember when our son...

was first diagnosed with dyslexia. And we moved him from the public elementary school to this school outside of Boston for language-based learning disabilities. And they told us, if your child forgets their lunch, do not drop it off. And I thought it was the cruelest thing in the world. But what they were trying to communicate to us is that the consequence of not having it

and then getting this sad sack lunch and being bummed creates the pain. Remember, people only get sober when being drunk is harder than doing the work to change. Same exact principle. The pain of not having the thing that you wanted actually organizes the internal forces that help you remember the next day or help you want to remember.

And so it's so important that you allow your kids to struggle. It's important that they pay their own bills. It is important that you have boundaries with them. It is important that they lose the job or they struggle with friendship because that's how they feel the pain in life that's necessary.

to tap into that potential desire and possibility to change.

I always tell my sons when they're disappointed, I know you're disappointed, but this is adult practicing. Being an adult is very disappointing. It is managing your disappointments every day to where then you're like, oh, on a disappointment scale, this is 0.5. I got this all day long. I love that. Yeah. And so it's just managing disappointment. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but just get ready because adulthood is full of disappointments. Well, and here's another thing. So I used to be the kind of person

that lived in fear of disappointing other people, lived in fear of like, what if things don't work out? I'm going to be disappointed, whatever. Isn't disappointment a good thing? Yes. Like if you can't make it to that 44th birthday party where everybody's splitting the check at the Mexican place with eight people and they're disappointed that you can't make it, isn't that awesome? Yeah.

Because doesn't that mean they wanted you there? Yeah. Let them be disappointed. Isn't it amazing if your kid is actually disappointed that they didn't make the team? Let them. Yeah. All right. Last one, Mel. Had it or hid it, vision boards. Oh, shit. I'm in the middle because everybody does them wrong. I think that manifesting and vision boards are absolutely critical things.

mindset and brain programming tools, but everybody does them the wrong way. And here's the mistake. Everybody manifests the thing. So like, let's just say you, what do you guys want? You want a beach house? Like, what do you want? What are you manifesting? Let's see. What do we want, Pats? We want a private plane. We'll take a private plane. We're tired of flying commercial. Okay. So here's the thing. So two biggest mistakes that people make is number one, they manifest when they're stressed out.

So you're in traffic, you're driving like, I hate my fucking life. I hate my job. I'm going to just envision me on a jet right now. It doesn't work based on the science. This comes from Dr. Jim Doty from Stanford, because when you're stressed, the amygdala is in charge. And in order to manifest properly, you actually have to be calm. And so you should be manifesting first thing in the morning when you wake up as part of your morning routine.

And the reason why is if you're not actually in a resting, calm state and your prefrontal cortex isn't like engaged, you can't lock in the programming of the jet. That's number one. Number two, the big mistake that everybody makes is you manifest the thing. You envision being on the plane. That's not the right way to do it. And the reason why is because you're just jumping to the end.

The proper way to do it is I want you to close your eyes when you're in the calm state and I want you to envision and rehearse all the grueling, shitty things you have to do to make a jet a reality.

The late nights in the podcast. No, I'm dead serious. The negotiations, the saying no to contracts, the things that go your way, the books that you write, like all these things that happen along the way that are hard. You're just now like an Olympic athlete rehearsing the turns in your mind before you do the course. Because what manifesting is, it is the intentional act

of rehearsing and programming in your mind the work that you need to do to achieve the things that you want so that your mind and your nervous system are programmed to recognize anything that is related to it so that it pops into your conscious mind and you start to see connections. And so the more that you manifest while you're calm and you manifest the process,

the better. The vision board can have all that stuff up there. But in addition to the plane, I want you to have some imagery of you two working late at night. I want you to have some imagery of stacks of papers of your, you know, multiple manuscripts that you're writing before the book so that you're both seeing the result and you're also seeing the effort.

The way she explains it, I'm kind of in on manifesting. It's a huge turnaround, but it does make sense. I can go either way. I feel like I have this brand where I said I've had it with manifesting and I kind of have to be that asshole, but I'm going to put it under consideration. Mel Robbins, this has been a real treat. I feel like you could be in our thruple. Of course. If I weren't a jealous bitch that couldn't handle being in a thruple. I don't know that I could handle it. Okay.

This has been so much fun. It was lovely to meet you. And thank you so much for coming on our podcast. Oh my gosh. Thank you for the invitation. I'm cheering for you too. And amazing job. All right. Thanks, Mel. Bye-bye. So what do you think? Are you a believer in manifesting? The way she set it out where you just don't put yourself on the tarmac with your jet and you envision the work, that makes a lot more sense to me. Here's what I think the problem is, is when people think they can make a mood board that

And then all of a sudden, all of these material possessions are going to appear for them. That's where they're skirting the system. I'm going to be on Pinterest and I'm making a mood board. I think it's bullshit. The way she is explaining it is a little different. Totally different. You don't see on Instagram when she has her Birkin bags and her matching Rolls Royces, all of the low jobs and all the shit she had to do to get there.

or whatever work interesting all right I'm gonna I think we'll just leave it there pumps tell them we will see you next Tuesday and Thursday

Listen up patriots, gay-triots, and nay-triots. We have a new podcast that has dropped. It's called IHIP News. It's Monday through Friday, every day, 15 to 20 minute hot takes on the political landscape of the United States of America, always served with a side of petty grievances. We are on all the available platforms, Apple, Spotify, Google, whatever you get your podcasts and YouTube.

Please go rate, subscribe and review so that we will chart upwards with America's greatest legal mind pumps. Pumps, what does an eagle say? Caw-caw! A little bit more enthusiasm. Caw-caw! That's it. That's, that's... Caw-caw! That's the patriotism that this country needs right there.