Plug in and go: the future of seamless EV charging
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Welcome to today's episode of Lexicon. I'm Christopher McFadden, contributing writer for Interesting Engineering. Today we sit down with Lin Sun-Fa, CEO of Amoobi, about the future of EV charging. From AI-driven reliability scores to cybersecurity and digital IDs, Lin shares how Amoobi is building the invisible infrastructure, powering seamless, secure and smart electric mobility.

So whether you're an EV owner, a tech enthusiast, or just curious about what's next for connecting transport, this one's for you. Gift yourself knowledge. RU+ is a premium subscription that unlocks exclusive access to cutting edge stories, expert insights and breakthroughs in science, technology and innovation. Stay ahead with the knowledge that shapes the future. Lin, thanks for joining us. How are you today? I'm good. How are you? Very well. Thank you very much. And for our audience's benefit, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, please?

Yeah, my name is Lin. I'm a CEO at eMobi. My background has always been cybersecurity. I'm very nerdy about it, but I try to balance it with other activities in my life. But that's a little bit background about myself. Fantastic. What kind of activities? Orbies? It's not an interview, but a job interview. Yeah, it's pretty boring. I mean, I love spicy food and I had a dog and

pretty much doing outdoor activities and sometimes meet up with friends. Nothing exciting that I would worth noting. Any time with friends is not, it is exciting. It's not a waste of time. It's very important. Okay. So can you introduce Emobi's mission and how your approach to EV charging infrastructure sets you apart from traditional models, please? Yes. So Emobi, we deliver seamless, secure EV charging through a unified infrastructure.

We give chargers, vehicles, and the drivers a secure digital identity so that anyone can go to any chargers and simply just plug in and charging will start automatically. We are the backbone infrastructure to two sides of the market. On one side is the charging network operators. These are the companies that build and operate the charging networks. We integrate with them a fragmented charging landscape into one single unified infrastructure.

And we introduced that security and automation layer. And we offered the single point of access to the automakers, fleet operators, and the companies that builds the apps and infotainment system that interface with EV drivers. Okay. It's a bad analogy, but like an API then.

or the whole network of EV chargers, sort of. Yes, our customers interact with us with an API, but the security and automation layer on top of it is basically the digital certificates, which is a public-private key encryption to securely authenticate and authorize EV charging between the drivers and the charging networks. Oh, cool. Okay, then. So it works in any charging system, so it could work on Tesla superchargers and things? Yep. And do you think of...

We do the hard lift to make sure that, you know, different charging networks and different vehicles with different software and protocols, protocol versions, we're able to normalize them and connect them into the ecosystem. So it's a very plug and play model. And the goal is that nobody in the industry has to build a new hardware or new firmware. They can just connect with eMobi and they get access to the rest of the vehicles or the rest of the charging networks. Oh, wicked. Is that around the world or are you only sort of focusing at the moment?

and sort of America, Europe, I'm sure you should graphical ranges. Today it will be focused in the US and Canada market. Okay. So you'd have plans to expand, I presume? Of course. That's the goal. Superb. Okay then. So how are AI and data refinement models transforming the way charging networks are deployed and managed? And could you share a specific example of this in action, please?

Yeah, so maybe taking a step back, traditionally, there are technology called plug-and-charge where it also uses some digital certificate technology. But the problem with plug-and-charge is that most of the vehicles and chargers, they don't have the firmware and hardware to support the technology. And you end up with 80% of chargers' vehicles today, they don't have the capability or the hardware and firmware to support the protocol. And so...

the regulations and companies are basically forced and stuck in this position of what should I do with the chargers and the vehicles that I've spent so much money to deploy. And so even though we created JustPlug, where we still use the same digital certificate technology,

And instead of relying on the cable, we try to move that authentication to the cloud and still keep the security layer with the digital certificates. And this is where AI and data refinement models comes in, is that we separate the identification process with the authentication and authorization process of the digital certificates. And so we use AI to basically make informed decisions

And we use data refinement models to clean up the data that we get from the charging network operators to make sure that we give a reliable charging data for the drivers, but also to make informed decisions for the matching pair of charger vehicle. I know I did go very deep into the technical there, but essentially the AI and data refinement models helps us to achieve that just plug technology where you can just plug it in and charging starts automatically.

Yeah, and it handles all the different nuances between this network and the vehicle, or it's just the accounts. It works on many different models of cars as well. Is that correct? That is correct, yes. So it works on different layers, and it basically, traditionally what is too complex to be done through algorithms, those are managed through the AI models. Yeah, or you'd need, I don't know, 10 different apps or something. You could just streamline into one.

In effect. And the goal is that for any drivers to sign up with any account that they want, we don't want to force people to have to download a specific app. But the goal is to enable as many apps out there so that people can choose their preferred app, sign up once, and they don't have to worry about opening the app again to find the charger, click a button, everything just seamlessly happen. Fantastic. Can it also kind of help you find the nearest charger?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Awesome. That's pretty cool. Brings us on to our next question quite nicely. So many drivers cite charging accessibility and reliability as barriers to EV adoption. So we've already touched a little bit. How does Amobe's tech address these challenges?

Yeah, so this basically goes back to the data refinement. So actually there are three components, enrichment, refinement, and transformation. But essentially, the problem with the industry is that sometimes the charger shows as available, but it's broken. And so people end up spending a few minutes or the last miles of their battery to get to the charger and then realizing that it's broken and they're stuck.

And so what we're trying to do is that to give the best set of data. And most of the time, the charging networks also have limitation on what data they can provide because of the charger itself. It, it,

it shows that it's working on the software level, but on the hardware level, it's broken. So we tried to use many different sources of data, including reviews data and user data points and previous attempts. And those data goes into data refinement models. And basically, the AI would process it and would output a reliability scoring data sets that previously doesn't exist so that the EV driver can make the decision whether this is something that they want to take the risk to go to the chargers or not.

So that's kind of what eMobi does today to kind of increase the accessibility and reliability for EV drivers.

So it'll work a bit like, I can either pour an energy body, a bit like Google Maps when it updates your route because this bit's got traffic in or whatnot. Yeah, I don't know if it does it with petrol stations. This one closed. I've not had a problem for a long time. So can you integrate into Google Maps on that subject? Yeah, yeah. Google Maps would be a potential platform to be integrated with. That'd be fantastic, wouldn't it? Yeah, cool. Yeah, because you've got the EV driving so it nears the EV.

station and then you're at the T yeah there's one up I know a mile in uh up front but it's not working try this one

Is that right? That is correct. And in fact, most of the mapping apps and routing apps that exist today for EV charging, a lot of them are already enabled by eMovie. People just don't know because it's happening behind the scene. Gotcha. Excellent. Okay, then. So building on that then, what role do predictive analytics and machine learning play in optimizing charging station placement and energy usage? That's a mouthful.

Yeah, so this is a very good point in terms of predictive analytics and machine learning play in optimizing charging station. And the reason I say this is because

There's a lot of gaps in terms of where to place chargers. I think when we think about the ideal future state, you know, we think about EV charging like gas stations where people can just stop and then fulfill their charging needs. But until then, you know, what is the best placement to make sure that, you know, we're placing the right chargers?

right spot. So, Immobi has a large data set as a backbone infrastructure. We process charging sessions. We have a large data set that exists. And so, one of the opportunities that we are exploring on the product side is how can we make use of this data to help charging network operators to place the right charger at the right spot

And this is where the analytics and machine learning comes into play as well. In addition to, of course, JustPlug, like I mentioned previously, it also uses machine learning and AI models to basically make informed decisions. So there are many aspects in our product that we use these models to optimize charging, not just for placement, but also for the convenience of charging.

Okay. I'm just wondering with that, do you really need to do that? Hasn't the work already been done? Because where there's a fuel station, where you can refuel your car, I'm sure through market processes, that is kind of determined. Am I making sense where the best places to charge are? You can just put the charging, the best way you've already put a charging station, just where you would refuel a car.

Am I just, you know what I mean? So you're asking like, do we even need to predict where's the best placement? Hasn't it already been done for you? I guess is what I'm saying because of the fuel stations. I don't know.

No, it's still helpful. I think there are many aspects other than just the usage behavior, but there's also grid readiness in terms of whether the grid gets supported. And also vandalism is another problem that we have with EV charging. So there's a lot of aspects to look at when we talk about predictive analytics. But again, the more data sets that you have and the cleaner the data input is,

the better output that we can produce. And that's kind of where eMovie comes in and we can deliver those data points. Oh, fair enough. And for the operators, that'd be useful data. What it seems to be at the moment is they just kind of just scattershot putting them everywhere. Oh, we've got a shopping mall, stick one there. Stick one in this car park. You might not need to. And more intelligent investment in the infrastructure. Yep, yep.

Excellent. Okay. So you mentioned security, cybersecurity, which is obviously becoming a growing concern with increasing connectivity of mobile systems. So how is Amobi integrating cybersecurity into the design of its infrastructure?

Yeah, maybe I'll just go a little bit deeper on our Just Pluff technology. So it utilizes digital certificates. And what digital certificates are, it's asymmetric encryption technology. So it has public key and private key. So by far, that's the most secure encryption technology to make sure we establish secure connections. And we actually use that for HTTPS. So our computer with Google Server, when we open google.com on our browser, we

you see the green lock icon on your browser. That's because your computer is pre-installed with the Joe certificate at manufacturing and Google server also has one. So when it's connected, it basically say that, oh, I can trust you. You can trust me. And hence the secure connections. And so in a similar fashion, we install certificates in the charger and the vehicle. Traditionally, they would plug in and it would authenticate and optimize charging. But with JustPlug, we moved that communication to the cloud. So to remove that firmware and hardware dependency,

And in a similar fashion, it connects with each other, you authenticate and you authorize charging for the driver securely. And that's how we make sure that the user gets to keep their private key. It never goes out of them. And it basically is the most secure EV charging experience that you can get without jeopardizing the convenience.

Okay. What would happen if you, so presumably it works right, what, via your phone, mobile phone or just a smart device when it comes? What if that gets stolen or lost? Can someone kind of use your account or how would you stop that? Yeah, it's actually built into the system level of the vehicle. So unless someone stole the vehicle, I think you will be safe.

Okay, well, if they stole your phone and your car, you'll have to put your phone in the car and they stole both. All right. Well, in that case, you would log into your whatever account that you have with that automaker, and you can basically take out your financial information or delete the account or report it. But I think there's many access controls that we have to make sure that it is secure. So from the user standpoint, we're not exposing their user data or any data.

to the chargers. It's solely happening seamlessly through asymmetric encryption technology. And that's kind of the beauty of that technology itself is that it never actually exposes your information to the public. The only thing that goes out is the public key. Gotcha. This is not built on a blockchain then. It's sounding very similar to a blockchain, but it's not, I presume. It's more like...

I don't know, can I give an example? It's related. So, I mean, technically both are cryptography, but I wouldn't say this is blockchain. It's still different. But both are very interesting technology for sure. Indeed they are. Okay.

Next question then. So how do you see emerging technologies like vehicle-to-grid, I mentioned blockchain, or edge computing intersecting with Imobi's roadmap?

It's the foundation, actually. So that digital certificate that I mentioned, they are called V2G certificates. Because those digital identity that we install in vehicles and chargers will be the same protocol to enable bi-directional charging. And this is a future state where...

the grid, the vehicle, and any other energy assets can identify each other. And so they can discharge energy back to the grid. They can discharge energy to other places. And those are driven by these secure digital identity for a secure communication and energy transmission. So that's the key of our technology. But with that, again, we also have

blockchain and some computing that we put into Just Plug to make sure that it's secure and it's actually doing the right job and serving the purpose that it's serving. Have you had any call for buy direction for charging at all? Is it a thing really in America or North America becoming popular?

It's still early. It's going to take two to another five years before it becomes commercially available. But I think the limitation comes with, one, the utility company itself, where they want to open the grid for two-way charging. But today, some of the vehicles and chargers support that technology, and that has been implemented on the V2H application, vehicle-to-home, where you can discharge energy from your car to a home.

So that's one application of V2GT, technically V2X technology. I think that's pretty cool. If you've got solar panels and stuff, basically your car becomes a mobile battery. Exactly. You can tell to faces. Everything is in energy assets today. Yeah, very true. Yeah, you could have in the future, perhaps like energy arbitrage. Like you go charge up your car and then you can somewhere sell it for more than it takes to recharge. Yeah.

and then kind of run back like a business, run your car between different regions. Anyway, so what lessons from other smart infrastructure sectors like smart cities or energy grids have influenced your team's development strategy, if any?

I mean, it's our inspiration. I mean, I always loved smart sci-fi movies growing up. And part of it is because looking at smart cities, flying cars, and basically all of these assets in smart cities are seamlessly connected with each other. And that's what inspired or influenced our team at Emobi when we first built Emobi four or five years ago is that

We want a world where everything is smart, everything is interconnected, and you don't have to open an app, do another thing. And vehicle and chargers are the two biggest energy assets today. And so enabling the secure communication between the two energy assets is the first start of eMobi. But the goal is that we can be the backbone infrastructure for energy assets in the future. Okay. I mean...

People talk about sort of things, they talk about smart cities in the future, like flying cars and stuff, electrical powered ones. I suppose that there's no reason something like that could be integrated into the smart grids and charging chargers and presumably your Mobi, if that ever happened. You can use them as flying batteries. Sure.

If it's energy assets, there would be communication that needs to be authenticated and authorized. Yes, then eMobi can be involved. Oh, fantastic. Great stuff. So on that subject, so infrastructure change is often very slow. So what do you see are the biggest regulatory or industry hurdles to modernizing EV charging stations? And how is eMobi navigating them?

Yeah, so just touching base on that traditional plug-and-charge, it's a cool technology, but it has the dependency on hardware and firmware. So it's an international protocol that's been built since 2014, but it has slow adoption because it requires...

every company in that chain to spend more money to upgrade their systems, to change their firmware. And it's very costly for everyone. And so the government pushed regulations, especially in California. They started doing this in 2024, where it requires these chargers and vehicles to have plug-and-charge capability, which are the ISO 1518 protocol. And so what Emobi does is that we try

to build JustPlug, which is still using the same ISO 15118 protocol. But instead of relying on the table, which requires that hardware and firmware upgrades, we moved the communication to the cloud. So we're trying to

mold with the regulation and the limitation of the industry and trying to build innovation, technical innovation that can help the industry forward and to make sure that EV charging is convenient regardless of the hardware, regardless of the firmware. And drivers, they don't get the inconvenience of charging because, oh, shoot, nobody wants to pay more money. So we're trying to offer this solution for everyone that works. So...

That's kind of how eMobi is navigating through kind of the limitation that exists by the new patterns and innovation that we're creating. It's in all of their interest, isn't it? The car makers, the charger, station suppliers, to make it as easy as possible. The adoption of the technology, for one, for obviously the public, but also they can use it as a sales pitch, can't they?

Like RR stations can be used with any car and the EV on the other side of the RR cars can be charged in any station. So there are benefits there, which I hope whether makers are seeing that or not to cooperate with you to make it as easy as possible. I would have thought. Are you finding that? I'm not sure. Are you getting resistance from them?

No, I think we got huge interest and we are in pilots with a couple EV automakers and most of the charging networks within our ecosystem has enabled just plug. And the reason behind that is because it's a simple setup, unlike the other solution that exists where you have to upgrade your whole hardware or rip it out, replace it with a new one. We're offering the solution that can work and still offering a secure and seamless charging.

Okay. So if a new charger comes onto the market, how would they become part of your network? What is the process? You're asking if a charging network operator is in the... Sorry, some new form of charging network?

station was created, I don't know, this many months before that came onto the market, how would they get onto your network? What would they have to do? Yeah, they just come to us, sign a legal agreement and they get connected to the ecosystem through an integration. It's a simple process. It can take less than a month and we basically do the hard lift. And once they are integrated, they will be connected to all the automakers, the fleet operators, the

and all of the apps and services that were connected today. And that's basically hundreds of thousands of charging sessions monthly that we're processing. Wow, that's pretty huge. So looking ahead then, how many months or years are we talking where you might expand it to say Europe or Asia?

Europe has a much more mature market and Asia definitely is an emerging market. And so, yes, we're looking at both markets in a different lens, but there is an opportunity for expansion in the future. But again, we'll stay tuned. Stay tuned with Emovi. Cutting the teeth in North America first, right? Work out the wrinkles then and expand our

Exactly. On the subject of the future then, so looking ahead five to 10 years, what do you think the EV charging experience would look like for the average consumer and how is Emobi shaping that vision? Yeah, I think in the future, the ideal future that Emobi foresees that you can buy an EV out there, right? You don't have to think about the brand and what kind of numbers that they have.

And you can go to any chargers and simply just plug in and charge and go. And that's it. You don't need to juggle through many different apps. You don't even need to pull out your credit cards or RFID cards. Charging just happens seamlessly. And even on top of that, the backbone infrastructure that eMobi built can be beneficial for many different companies, including the company that deploy chargers themselves.

to the grid to the utility to enable bi-directional charging so that's kind of the future that we look at as a company and flying cars and flying cars of course okay Lin that's all my questions is there anything else you'd like to mention before we wrap up you think it's important no I think thank you for asking the great questions this is a very great podcast to be in and I've

I've never had these questions about the future and kind of my inspiration. So I'm glad to share kind of the why, the why that I'm doing this company. Right, it's important. You got to look to the future. You got to have dreams. It's really important for stuff like this. And it just makes it more interesting. Some topics can be quite dry. On that subject though, thank you for your time, Lin. That was great. Also, don't forget to subscribe to IE Plus for premium insights and exclusive content.