Michael Gandolfini: Look at the two Spider-Mans!
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Welcome to the podcast, everybody. This is Literally with me, Rob Lowe. Today's a really special podcast for me. We have Michael Gandolfini, son of the great James Gandolfini, who, in my opinion, delivered the greatest performance in the history of television as Tony Soprano. Obviously passed away way too early, and Michael is carrying on his dad's legacy as an actor. And I know

I know him as a friend. He's friends with my kids and to watch him grow into who he's become is super, super fun. And to get a chance to talk to him, I think you're really going to like it. We got into some really, really cool stuff.

of out of all the people I've had on the show and we've had great people, as you know, if you've been a listener, I think we taught there's more good stuff about acting and getting into the business and why you get into the business and the tools of the business in this interview than in any interview we've ever done on literally. So stand by and let's get to, as I like to call him, little Gandolfini.

I'm in L.A. right now. I was out with my mom because she lives out here for the holidays. And here I'm about to finish my last semester of NYU. You're still... I love that you didn't drop out. Well, I... Look, I came... My family's Italian, so I was, you know, I was graduating. Like, that was something that I was gonna do. You're the first thing your family to ever do anything. Exactly.

My first attempt at your pops. Exactly. It wasn't horrible. So I sort of always wanted it and then figured out that, oh, you can actually take really interesting classes in college and actually learn about really cool stuff. So yeah, I've got two classes left. I sometimes think that the age that people go to college is too early for some people to appreciate it. Like I know...

When I was supposed to be going, I didn't because I was doing movies, but like I would want to go now. Yeah. Like I'm like way more interested in things at this stage in my life, but I don't want to be

the old man in the corner. Well, it's tough to like ask people like, all right, you have four years to make up what you want to do in your life. Like a lot of my friends graduate and go like, I don't know what I want to do. I mean, I'm so lucky that I know what I wanted to go into and they got to study like

anthropology and psychology and actually things that go to my job. But so many people don't know what they want to do at 19, 18. So, you know, I was super lucky and I've been lucky to get to like, you know, work in Atlanta and

Cleveland and still get to go to school and fly back and forth. And now with Zoom, like, I mean, Zoom's so hard on so many people, but it's so great for me. I get to go to school and work. That's a really good point I hadn't thought about because you could literally do it on location. There's so much to go over. For those of you out there, so Michael's great friends with my youngest son, John Owen. And, you know, I was friendly with your dad.

We were during the Sopranos reign.

The West Wing were, I think, I really think that it was the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. I really do. Yeah. And I think we were the Beatles because, listen, let's face it, the Sopranos are way more fucking macho and tough. So they were for sure the Stones. The Beatles, it's not bad to be a Beatle though. No, it sure isn't. I mean, I think Aaron Sorkin would take being a Beatle and I think David Chase would take

being a stone. I think 100% they would. And by the way, I think they would choose that if they had the choice. For sure. I mean, I can't think of really no Beatles in David Chase's sort of music book. No Beatles and no Led Zeppelin. That's what he said to me because I was like making a Tony soundtrack. Really? Yeah. And I like had some Zeppelin. He was like, Tony does not listen to Led Zeppelin.

I find a Jersey guy in that era super wood. Did he give you a reason why not? No, I mean, he sort of, there's a lot of like more sort of, you have a lot of, you got a lot of stones, the strokes, sort of a lot of these, interestingly enough, like British sort of rockers that came over. Big, he loves Dylan. Yeah.

And then Jim Morrison is huge for David. So things like that. I never asked why. It's so funny because all my musical friends find Jim Morrison super divisive. I had David Crosby on the show and David openly loathes

Jim Morrison. And it's super, it's super funny to get to wind David Crosby up about Jim Morrison. It's really funny. I want to go, I want to go, Hey, Crosby, Jim's dead. He's been dead a long time. It's, you don't have to be so angry at him. So now that the saints is out, it lives in the world. You've gone through all of it. You know, what I think is amazing is that you had never seen the Sopranos. Mm-hmm.

Which makes sense because of your age. You were born the year it came out, right? Correct, yeah. I'm the exact same age as the show. So you get the opportunity to do it. How was it? I mean, I know because John Owen told me, I think he watched, my son watched some episodes with you. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He did. And by the way, I think it would have been the first time he had seen it.

Because I was trying to get the kids to watch that. You know, they were too young to watch it. And I was obsessed with it as everybody was. What was your experience watching it for you and then watching it with your friends and then seeing your dad in that towering? When you look up the word towering performance, people are like, it's a towering performance. That is what it is. Yeah. No, no, it's true. I mean, you know, like the first thing was, and I feel like Johnny can relate to, and like, I think a lot of,

Kids with like, yeah, it's just a normal son-dad thing. I think any sons can relate. Like, I wanted to reject it so much. I was like, oh, it's going to be so annoying and boring. And like, I don't know if I'll even like it. Just this natural sort of rebellion. It's the way my kids feel about absolutely everything I do. Yeah. Like, I watched, which movie did I watch with Johnny viewers? Coppola directed it. Yeah.

The Outsiders. Thank you. Thank you. The Outsiders with Johnny. And I remember I was like, oh my God, it's like one of the best movies ever. And he's like, yeah, it's good. It's a good movie. And I like completely related to like...

Being like, yeah, Sopranos is really great. It might be one of the best TV shows ever. Like, but... You're parroting just by rote the things you know you're supposed to say. Exactly. And it's like, inside of you, you're like...

Everyone's right. Everyone's so good in it. But like that was sort of the feeling going in and then you know I started watching and it was just so incredible. I mean just kind of defied all my expectations of it. Because like I taught whenever I say this it blows my mind but like

I was so not involved in any of it. Like my dad and my family and my mom really raised me

as normally as they could, you know? A lot of time spent in New Jersey mowing lawns and crabbing off the dock and having my own friends and my dad had a core group of college friends that he met in college and those were the people around me so like I really didn't know what the show was about. I really hadn't seen anything my dad was in.

So it really was, um, an amazing experience. And he didn't, he didn't bring it home with him. He wasn't like Daniel Day-Lewis where he came home and had to be a mobster while he was, you know, doing your homework. No, no, not at all. Um, you know, I mean, there was definitely Sopranos was tough when he'd film. I wouldn't see him a lot, you know, it was a lot of time away from him. Um,

But definitely no bringing it home. And even when I'd go to set but everyone is like, "Oh my God, what was set like?" It was mostly in the trailer. Like in the trailer, drawing, doing homework. I never saw anything interesting with Tony Soprano. Like there was no like, you know what I mean? It'd be like him walking down the street to get some paper.

buttoning his shirt. Like there's like little like inputs like that. Like I never saw like an intense scene. You never saw in any of the classic Sopranos scenes. You didn't see him, you know, stomping Joey pants to death. Exactly. No, not at all. Like the best Sopranos day was the day with the bear. There's a bear in the backyard. And he was like, he called my mom and he's like, Marcy, pull Michael out of school right now. Come to set.

My mom was like, "I'm not - why would I pull him out of school?" And he's like, "There's this bear here, you gotta pull him out." So, like, she pulled me out of school and we went to set and you know, there's just black bear on a leash just walking around and you just give it treats and one of my favorite pictures of all time is my dad holding me. I mean, I have to be four, five maybe.

And next to him, he's just like holding hands with this bear, this big black bear. It's just us three. Like that is the, by far the most exciting thing I remember from set. It's so indicative of who your dad is.

was in terms of not being tony soprano although tony was obsessed with the ducks that is true pilot which is and the reason i think that worked was because your dad has such an innate sweetness to him yeah and that he would see a bear on a set and be so excited that he would want to pull you out of school to see a bear totally um is is like that's totally my sort of sense of

who he was, that sort of unbelievably big bear himself. You know, and it was interesting, like, doing a, I've never done any press of this press run talking about these things. Like, you know, I did learn some things about myself, which is like,

People would ask, why do you want to be an actor? When did you know? And like, even though I never saw like this, anything really like great scenes or like stuff like that, like I always wanted to be on set. Like I always had something that was like, bring me to set, please. Like, when can I come to set? When can I come to set? And especially when I got older, like I remember...

My dad did a movie called Burt Wonderstone with Jim Carrey and Steve Carell and Steve Buscemi.

And I was going to school and every night was an argument. Like, you got to go home and go to bed. You got to wake up tomorrow. And I'd be like, please, please let me just stay and hear your guys' conversations. Like, please let me just, let me just watch it. I just wanted to stand in the corner and just watch. Was it the process? Was it the energy? Was it, what about, I mean, there are a lot of things about a set that are magnetic for people, but could you figure out what exactly it was for you?

this motivating question of like, how do you do that? I would watch a performance or something and just be so amazed and baffled and just go like, how do you, how did that person do that? So there was something about set. I think at first it was the energy, the people, the camaraderie, and then just watching, how do you do that? And I remember thinking,

Oh, that's so weird. Like an actor would be like, ah, I don't think we, I should wear this type of shoe. We're like, let's let me come in a beat later. And I remember when I was young, I was like, why would that matter? What does that change? And I would then see it. I would be like, whoa, that changed the whole scene. That's a great point. That's such a great point. It's like, well, why do I, why would I go to the refrigerator? Yeah. Right now into, you know, the uninitiated.

It might be an interesting idea, but there's no sense of how that kind of little thing can affect everything. Totally. And I think that that had just really just took me and kind of sucked me into it. And I always wanted to be there. And also the camaraderie. Like, my dad did a play called...

um on broadway and oh yeah famous what is it again it was god of carnage god of carnage oh my god it's a great yeah i saw a later iteration without him but that that plays gnarly it's so great and like he again like he wouldn't let me see it so i didn't know it was about i was it was a big thing too i was like you're never gonna be on broadway again you have to let me see it and he was like no no no but i would um

sit on the railing like we're in the wings and I would high five Jeff and and and and hope and all of them I would high five them as they were going out I would go in my room and they would close the door and they would turn off the sound so I couldn't hear anything I would do my homework and then they'd be like all right Michael they're off in two and I would sprint to the wings and I would high five them coming off and like I just loved it

Well, that's amazing. An actor coming off of crushing a show like that. It was Jeff Daniels. Hope Davis. My dad and then Marsha Gay Harden. Oh my God, I forgot Marsha Gay was in it. Yeah, and Marsha and my dad were a couple and Jeff and Hope were the other couple. That's right. And then he let me see it in LA because I was a little older and then I just loved it. And that's the other thing about your pops was...

You know, and I have respect for all actors that I have respect for. But of those, the ones that also do theater and are proficient in it, that's a whole other level. I mean, there are plenty of amazing actors who have never set foot on the stage and they're great actors. But if there was an MVP vote, you would have to have put in your time in the theater. Yeah.

Yeah, completely. That was sort of the like, I mean, look like life on life's terms. But the goal was to do a play after Saints. Sort of like do Saints have it come out and then find a great play. But with COVID, you know, it got tough. Did you have a play in mind?

Not really, you know, like, I mean, the play world is so complicated. It was sort of like I was going to learn how a professional play works, like which ones could we do? What would be right for New York? What would be a small black box theater? We could do a run in. So all those things. But it's also tough. I'm in a weird age range. It's so funny you say that. That's what people don't realize is I remember being, you know, when I was in my 20s, it was...

Particularly my mid to late 20s was super, it's a super hard time. You're too old to play the kid. You're way too young to play the man. Yeah. And so you're kind of in this weird, I just always knew that I was going to have more interesting stuff when I got closer to my 40s. And lo and behold, that's what happened. And that is, the same thing will happen to you. It is like-

You'll be in that age range and just be crushing it.

Yeah, I sort of totally agree. A big question is like, what's next for you? And it's kind of like, well, not only as a performer, but also as a young man, like, I don't know. I don't know what I fit into, you know? Like, I tend to relate to older characters more. I feel like, you know, I just... Because they're better. Yeah. What's the one that everybody did in New York in the 80s and 90s? It was...

Oh, True West. Everybody was doing True West. The Quaid brothers and True West and like every, like literally anybody and everybody was doing True West. Yeah. I mean, true. I mean, Sam Shepard is, is it's funny you say it is like definitely one of my like

I mean, I, Barry Child was what I auditioned to NYU with. I did Barry, you had to do two monologues. So I did Barry Child and I did This Is Our Youth, which is, you know, another. But yeah, I mean, True West, Barry Child. And then, I mean, there's a ton of Sam Shepard plays that are incredible. ♪

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Ashley has you and your sleep covered. Subject to credit approval. Minimum monthly payments required. No minimum purchase required. See store for details. So in that amazing sort of run-up and initial release of The Saints, were people...

Yeah.

It was so amazing and so crazy because, again, like, I don't, I hear me say it and I go, that can't be true. But it was, like, I wasn't really in, I didn't know what it was like to be, like, to have fame or to have, like, that attention. Like, even, I knew my dad was recognized and stuff like that. But, like, it was really a first for me. So, I did this movie and it was so secretive.

Because David is so secretive. And this is sort of like the experience of like the pulp, you know, pop culture of it all and kind of the external like, and I had the best time at the best people kept pinching myself every day on set like, oh my god, this is my dream. Like, I cannot believe this. And then it ended and I sort of was like, oh, all right, well.

It was like summer camp. Like that was a fun little thing we did. Like it was like making a movie with my friends like I'd done in high school and sort of moved on. And then like I would have these like crazy moments like, hey, you know, publicity is so crazy in so many ways because like you go to acting school and like

There's this sort of toxic, but like it's the reality is that like, oh, you're not an actor unless you're on talk shows and in magazines and doing movies that are big. That's how it was. They say you never want to see how the sausage is made. That's how the sausage is made of being a pro.

in the entertainment industry. Totally. So, like, that was something new. So, like, you know, being on a shoot on, you know, Vanity Fair magazine, just like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Did Johnny tell me a great story about you and GQ? So... Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. I was so honored. I got to be... This is a perfect example. I got to be in...

in the issue of GQ Man of the Year, which is so crazy and just so honored. Yes, Michael, I believe I won it in 2003. I'm so sorry. Go ahead. Continue. Look at that. Look at that. It's 2001, but who's counting? But this is your moment, not mine. Continue. So I was a little piece of it, and I was so lucky to be in the issue. And one of the things is they invite you to the party. There's this great...

party. And again, like, you know, my life, I live in New York. I'm so lucky and privileged for so much stuff, but I'm still like,

pretty normal. I go to school and what - you know, normal quote unquote whatever that means. So, I get invited and they fly me - and Warner Brothers goes, "We'll fly him out so I don't have to pay for my flight." I'm like, "Wow, this is so cool." And I just did a movie called Cat Person. I'm a very small part in it but I brought my friend Amelia Jones who's this amazing actress

Okay. So, here we are. We're in the SUV. You know, also like the other thing is clothing. Like, my dad wore khaki pants and a button-down shirt to everything and I sort of wear hoodies and like jeans and I like look greasy all the time. So, like it's been like this like very amazing experience to like

"Oh, what are you wearing?" or "Who are you wearing?" And I'm like, "I have no idea." Like it's been a very new thing. So, like the anxiety over getting clothes is always very big for me. So, like you know, I get the suit, it's pressed, it's everything, I put it on.

And the first thing that actually happened was like, there was someone who was coming to do my hair and just like, I don't know, glue it down for me. And they went to the wrong address. So they couldn't come. So I was like, that's fine. I'll go and I've done my hair my whole life. It's okay. Right. So I do it. So we're going to be a little late. Going to be about 30, 45 minutes late.

So, I get in the car which by the way, as you know, that's early. Yes. So, I go to Amelia's hotel to pick her up and I get out of the car and there's this guy there and this guy is blackout drunk and he's in his 40s, 50s with his wife I assume and he's German.

And he's like, oh, are you lit? Are you lit right now? Are you lit? And I'm like, I'm sober, as you know. So I'm like, no, I'm not. He's like, what are you doing tonight? And I'm like...

Oh my god, I'm like, I'm going to this party. Where? Where is it? Where's the party? I'm like, oh my god, just trying to like get this guy away from me. So I like go, I look at my driver. I'm like, I don't know you tell him and he's like, oh, it's at the whatever hotel and he's like, oh, man of the year awards, bro. Exactly. So like, I didn't sit and he's like, well, maybe I'll come and I'm like, yeah, man, you should show up. You know, okay, so this guy walks away. I'm like, okay, we pick up Amelia, we go to the party.

So we're pulling up and I'm talking to her and there's all these people outside and, you know, incredible actors and actresses that I look up to. And oh my God. So we get out. I get in line, you know, tell I'm Mike Galifiani. They give me a ticket or whatever.

So I turn around and there's the German guy. The German guy came to the hotel. He's like, how do I get in? I was like, oh, shit. You're inviting literally drunken strangers off the street to the GQ Man of the Year Awards. I know, I know. I'm like, oh, shit. And Emilio's like, who is that? I'm like, it's this guy that...

I've met outside. I don't know. And I was like, I don't know, man. Stand in line. So I was like, we got to go. We got to get away from this guy. You're like, you see Brad Pitt over there? Just stand behind Brad Pitt and you'll get in. Exactly. Exactly. So I go to walk in. There's two people standing there and they say, welcome. And you walk into the venue.

Whatever. That's what you do when you go to a party. So, I have a great night. We have so much fun. It was so amazing. I got to see some friends I haven't seen in a long time. I got to meet Andrew Garfield, who's one of my heroes. I got to see Tommy. Tom Holland was on the cover and I love him so much. We did a movie together and so close to him and his brother and his team and such a fun night. And I go home at night and I go to bed.

And my mother wakes me up and goes - because I was staying at her house - she goes, "Why didn't you walk the red carpet?" And I go, "There wasn't one." And she goes, "I was looking all night for all the red carpet updates and you weren't on it." And I'm like, "Mom, you weren't there. There wasn't a red carpet." And I turn my phone over and I have like 40 texts and calls.

And I'm like, oh my God, what is this about? So, when you get invited to the party, you have to go on their behalf. And you go and walk the carpet as a sign of respect and to promote it and help out. I didn't see the carpet, so I didn't walk it. So, everyone's like, where were you? Did you even go to this party? Warner Brothers is like, we flew you out there. Did you go? And I'm like, oh.

I swear to God, I saw Johnny the next day, like, just freaking out. I was like, everyone thinks I skipped this party. And, like, I just, I don't know where this carpet was. I guess it was to, like, my, I don't know. But I wasn't going to walk in and be like, excuse me, where's the red carpet? Like, I don't know.

I just didn't know. So they pay you. They fly you out. They get the plane. They give you they put you in the magazine. You're put me in a suit. They put you in the suit. You go all the way there and you don't end up on the red carpet, which is it's like if a tree falls in the forest and no one's there to see it. Did it really fall? You fell in the forest and there was no one to see you on the red carpet.

And there was no one to see me and everyone's like, did he, you know, what did he do then? And I'm like, I'm telling you I went. I'm telling you I went. And lo and behold, there's this amazing picture of Tom Holland and Andrew Garfield. And guess who's in the background?

Me. So I take the picture. Everyone's like, look at the two Spider-Man. And I take the picture and I send it to everyone. I'm like, there I am at the GQ party in the background. And it's this little picture of me holding a glass like far in the background. And I was like, I did go. Here I am. Yeah, it was it was stressful. See, publicity 101 never, ever miss a

The red carpet. I know. Noted. That's my favorite story. My son, John Owen, called me and was like, Michael G., you missed the red carpet. He's tripping. I was. I was sweating. I was freaking out. Yeah. Well, it's amazing the things they don't teach you in acting school. Oh, man. Yeah. A lot of my friends that go to acting school and stuff, they ask me like, oh, what a... I mean, you fundamentally don't learn...

Anything other than connecting and doing it every day. Like I say, the best part of acting school is like you get to not be so afraid of it. Right. Because that's the most important part. It's time in the saddle. And if you're lucky, you get a mentor who will give you some good tools to put in your toolbox. Yeah. And if you're super lucky, you don't get someone who fucks up all of your natural skills.

Instincts. Exactly. Exactly. It's more dangerous in some ways and that's - you know, I went to NYU Tisch for one semester and I left. I dropped out because

You know, I don't think it's anyone's fault but all I was learning for me who is a highly sensitive and anxious person was anxiety, competition, insecurity, comparing myself to others. That's all I was learning. We come by that naturally. Exactly. I was like, I have enough of this. Like, this room is - this acting school was really -

You know, I think it helped a lot of people, but it just, it got me more stuck. And then I was arguing with teachers and storming out of the class. And like, I was like, this isn't working. So. Yeah. I mean, people, people ask me all the time about acting school and,

My kid wants to be an actor. John Owen's an actor. You're an actor. I mean, I mentor young... And I've been through it. I was a child actor. And I just have such profound mixed feelings about it. Like I said, if you have a great thing going, more power to you, and it's great. And, you know, I mean, there's... I know amazing people went to Juilliard and came out with... I mean, it's all... Listen, if you can get into Juilliard, you should fucking go to Juilliard. Let's just get real. But, you know, some of my favorite actors...

were people who didn't know one fucking thing about it and ended up on a set. Wilford Brimley was a fucking cowboy. Totally. Harrison Ford was a carpenter. Yeah. I always say, honestly, the thing that makes any good actor is being able to relax. If you can relax enough, you can be a great actor. But that's so hard. To be actually open and relaxed...

It's one of the hardest things to do. I have a theory why, I don't want to name a name. If we were offline, I would name it. But it's one of my titanic, like master of the universe actors in his late 20s and 30s in the 70s, right? He had iconic, iconic, iconic, iconic, iconic, iconic movies. And now is famous for being so over the top.

like beyond over the top like people imitate his over-the-top performances i think i know who you're talking about and i go what and and he's not alone it's a thing that can happen to i find older actors as they get super broad and big and i think i think it's because they've mastered being relaxed for so long and are so in the pocket that it feels like they're not doing anything to that yeah

And then they start going, I should, Jesus, am I just phoning this in? Because that's what it feels like to me. Yeah. And then they start pushing to make it feel, you know, to make themselves feel, you know what I'm saying? Totally. And then they end up screaming and yelling and throwing stuff. Whereas 20 years ago, they just would have said the dialogue and killed it. Totally. I totally agree. And something that's happening now is,

that I'm very interested in. It's sort of what I studied at NYU is sort of this idea of character. What is a character and how do audiences take a character and for actors and I don't know, you know, not a lot of people go and see a movie to see the characters. They go and see the actors and I think that's just this culture and Instagram and fame like there's an element of wow,

"The Tragedy of Macbeth" just came out. I want to go see Denzel Washington play that part. I don't really want to go to see Macbeth. Yes. You know, did people go see Saints to see the young Tony Soprano or did they come to see Michael Gandolfini and all of the sort of pop culture around it play that character? And it's just an interesting thing that's sort of happening with actors now.

Not that that happens all the time, but it's a big part.

Mm-hmm. Hadden Fitch, Thomas Hadden Fitch, I think. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. So he's from Denmark. He's Thomas Hadden Fitch from Denmark. It's from a book. It's a famous, famous book. The character exists. He's playing it. Yeah. He doesn't do any accent. True. He did, by the way, he did one week, apparently. And Sidney Pollack was like, hey, Bob, you know what, man? I love you. You're Bob Redford. Yeah. You don't need to do the accent. It's true. And by the way, did he? No, he didn't. Now, that same part played by...

Daniel Day-Lewis, there's going to be an accent that will be an accent. Yeah, yeah. And it would be equally as good. But so to get caught up in that stuff,

it's super interesting and and in your you're smart to have latched onto it yeah but they're just different it's different strokes for different folks totally i there are absolutely right there's the heath ledgers and daniel day lewis's and then there's the harrison ford's i go to a movie to see harrison ford and i love every bit of it you know he's jimmy stewart carrie grant paul newman

Lauren Bacall, you know, all those people. Yeah. I kind of think I'm more, unless it's a very, very, very like one in a billion chameleon type actors, I'm more down for seeing a known quantity personality that I know play a part for me.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that's what's so fun about it is it like depends on the thing, right? Like one of my favorite performances is Ryan Gosling in Crazy Stupid Love. Like he's playing into being Ryan Gosling and it's amazing and so fun. But Tom Hardy in The Revenant is incredible too. I know. I know. You're absolutely right. I mean, you're absolutely right. People ask, you know, what is...

The greatest performance ever. And I said, I don't know what the greatest performance ever is, but I will tell you the bravest performance ever. And I'm sorry. I don't give a, you cannot convince me that anyone else comes close. So you're Johnny Depp. They offer you Pirates of the Caribbean. You have to remember it's, that's become such a thing that you have to go back in time and remember it was an amusement park ride. Totally. It was a movie based on an, not based on a book, not based on a play.

Not based on someone has this great idea for a script. Nope. Based on a ride. Yeah. Talk about gross. And you give it to Johnny Depp, who holds his nose and says yes. Yeah. Because he's been doing weird movies that work, don't work, whatever. And it's kind of, you know, put up or shut up time for him. Yeah. And we all face that in our careers. And...

You know the studio's like, we've got Johnny Depp in this. Fuck yeah, this is going to be amazing. And you know what they were hoping to get was Jake Gyllenhaal in Prince of Persia. Totally. But what they got was Jack Sparrow. And can you imagine that?

Making that choice. We all think that it was just baked in, that that just naturally happened. Hell no. No way. There's a version of the movie, and it's the version the studio wanted, of a handsome, straight, leading man, macho, boring. Yeah. Doing his thing. And Johnny's like, you know what? I won't be doing that. It's the bravest acting choice in the history of the business. Yeah. Period. I agree. And then, you know, they're like, want to fire him. Mm-hmm.

And, you know, there's a moment where the guy comes to you and, you know, you go, do I want to get fired off of this, the last train leaving Clarkston for me? And maybe I'll just dial it back. And he didn't. Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing. Those sort of aha moments where someone...

pulled something out of their hat you know and and comes up but i love pirates of the caribbean by the way like i've always been like i want to play a pirate you'd be a good pirate

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And by the way, just circling back to Tony Soprano, the pilot of

of The Sopranos as good as it is and it's super, super good. He's not really the Tony that he became. You can start him noodling around it. You know, the first four seasons were like the ones I really sunk my teeth into to create this character. That's when you still have like this real genre confused but specific show where it's cartoony and dark and funny and

and all that stuff. And then after season four, it gets darker. Again, because it was the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. I was always like, hey, the West Wing showed up fully formed. Like our pilot is as good as anything we ever did afterwards. Yeah.

yeah first six episodes first six the Sopranos is fine totally until he goes on uh Meadows college trip I completely agree I always tell people it takes about four or five or six episodes for it to really find its stride and I think that's because of yeah tonally stuff and also my dad finding it you know you're completely right the pilot um

is totally different. There's actually narration in the pilot because of Goodfellas. David was inspired by Goodfellas. So it opens with my dad kind of like, you know, the therapy thing, but then he's like laying in bed and he's walking down. And when he's walking down, he has a narration, which they never do again. No narration. Edie Falco's

Beyond belief. She is incredible. She's insanely good. Yeah. Everybody, everybody in that show. Yeah. It's really amazing.

um i'll sound like a total hack reporter now so tell me what's next for you young gandalfini um do you have some secret project you can't talk about i do i do have one secret see i know i know what's going on um one secret project that i'm very excited about that i start um in february so this secret project is happening

Yeah, I'm going to be in it. I'm a small, you know, here's the thing. Like, I got so lucky. Like, after Saints came out, I really got to go and do a lot of really, my goal is to do smaller parts. I want to go and play a bunch of different parts in supporting roles. Like, that's what I want to go do. And I got to be in a, I got to do a little bit on Ari Aster's next movie with Joaquin Phoenix, which was incredible.

Incredible. Tell me about, I'm a huge Joaquin fan. Who is not? He's one of my favorite actors ever. Incredible. What was that like? Give me a little Joaquin insight. Oh, man. He is just, he's incredible. We met at base camp where like your trailers are and talked a little bit and it was so good. Well, here's another fun thing about Joaquin.

My dad did a movie called 8mm. Oh, yeah. Which is like this pretty intense, I think it was Joel Schumacher. It was Joel Schumacher, yep. Yeah. And, you know, about the sort of grunge, porno, sort of like snuff film. Yeah. In it, the like main group of people were Joaquin Phoenix, my dad, Nicolas Cage,

And Chris Bauer, he plays this like the machinist, this guy, he wears a mask the whole time. I've worked now with Chris Bauer on The Deuce.

He's a dear friend. Joaquin Phoenix, this Ari Aster movie. And then my dad's like, "I just have to get in a movie with Nick Cage and I've completed the eight millimeter." You brought it full circle. So, you know, me and Joaquin, we're talking about that.

Because there was actually a day I believe that my dad accidentally punched Nick Cage in the face and he had to like call stop and like, it was this whole thing. Oh, that's good. I like that. I know. So, we were talking about that, so nice. And then, we left to get ready and the scene's a very intense scene. Anyone who's seen Ari Aster movies knows that there's always

Yeah, what was the, just for the people who might not know, what was your favorite Ari Aster, your two favorite ones? So Ari Aster, his first movie was Hereditary. Which is insane. Hereditary is beyond belief. Incredible. And then he did a movie called Midsommar. That's right. And they both are sort of thriller, horror movies.

With comedy intersplaced kind of like Sopranos, you know, he's very genre bending and he calls this his nightmare comedy so

You know, it's in a very intense scene. He really is an incredible director with human emotion. So we went to prepare. And then on set, you know, he's just, he was so kind and giving and a leader, but he really didn't talk. You know, he really, he stayed in it. He set the tone for everyone, but he would come over and like give you a pat on the back and

Look at you and just be like, I'm not gonna - it's going well. This is - let's not talk about it, let's not get out of it, stay in it but like -

Yeah, that's it. And that was just so incredible. So incredible. Such a giving and incredible person. And I'm grateful to, you know, call him a friend and stay in touch. It's smart that you're working with just great actors and having great experiences and not worrying about, quote unquote, what you should be following up anything with. No, you know, I tell people I'll do a one line performance.

thing if it means working with great people that I'm going to learn. My pinnacle for success is did I learn something? If I go any more than that, you know, I'll get in my head. I'll get scared. Can I show up, be professional, give my fellow actors what they need, and can I learn something? Then it's a win. Your dad would love hearing that. I'm very lucky. You're in LA now, right? For a while? I am. Yeah, I'm here through January.

Oh, great. Well, get up to Santa Barbara. Get up here. Yeah, I absolutely will. I mean, come on, man. How have you not come up and seen the beach house? I know. I got you. We have new dogs and the whole thing. Oh, I love it. I know. I was just telling Johnny. We have been texting back and forth to get me up there, but I'll definitely come up. Come on. You have to. Now, in front of America, agree you're going to come up and hang. Deal. I agree. America, I will go up in Santa Barbara and see you.

Little Gandolfini. I mean, he's just got such insane, like, love me, sweet energy. I love that kid so much. I'm so happy that he's doing great. And I thought that was awesome. I hope you guys did as well. I had an absolute blast talking to him. Makes me feel good about being an actor and being a dad, for that matter, and having my son in the business. You know, all things are good. And now it is time to check the lowdown line.

Hello, you've reached literally in our lowdown line where you can get the lowdown on all things about me, Rob Lowe. 323-570-4551. So have at it. Here's the beep.

Hi, Rob. My name is Becky. I'm from Louisiana. I recently saw your YouTube clip regarding stopping drinking. It's very inspiring to me. I want to begin that journey. I guess you understand how much it rocks. You have so much of life that can be enjoyed. And I just wanted to thank you so much for sharing that.

And I watched your own star. I love it. You're absolutely amazing. You're still as gorgeous as you were ever. And, you know, I just appreciate you sharing the story. And I just want to tell you, thank you. Oh, thank you so much for that. That means a lot to me. And thank you for sharing your journey. I guess.

My, my thoughts on, on anybody out there, you know, it's the new year, everybody's made new year's resolutions. And, you know, a lot of you, I'm sure like, I'm going to cut down drinking or eating bad or whatever it is, but if it's, if it's drinking or anything around addiction, which so many people don't.

dealing with, whether personally or within their family. It's a real thing. You know, like you allude to, I've been very, very blessed that I am in recovery and have been in recovery from drinking and drugs for over 30 years. And I guess the willingness you already have, and that's the key, the willingness. If you don't have the willingness, it's not going to happen. You're willing and you should go into it

feeling armed with confidence and feel really good about yourself because only you can help you. There isn't a support group or a psychiatrist or a medicine that's going to make one bit of difference to you without you being ready. So if you're ready, the world's your oyster.

And, you know, I would urge you to seek out AA. Somebody once said that America's two greatest exports to the world were jazz and Alcoholics Anonymous. And I agree.

So, um, you can, you can dial, you know, information. There's going to, it's going to be right there in your town. I would urge you to, you know, when you go in and listen to people, um, listen to what you have in common with people and not look for the things that you don't have in common because they're going to be who you don't have anything in common with. That's just the nature of life. And don't use that as a barrier.

And, you know, one day at a time, you know, and you're starting from a good place. And I wish you all the success and luck in the world because it is a great life on the other side of it. Next week, spectacular guest. Don't forget to give us that five star at Apple. Thank you for listening and more to come on Literally With Me. Rob Lowe.

You've been listening to Literally with Rob Lowe, produced and engineered by me, Rob Schulte. Our coordinating producer is Lisa Berm. The podcast is executive produced by Rob Lowe for Low Profile, Jeff Ross, Adam Sanks, and Joanna Solitaroff at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson at Stitcher. Our talent bookers are Gina Batista, Paula Davis, and Britt Kahn, and the music is by Devin Tory Bryant. Make sure to leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and we'll see you next week.

I'm literally with Rob Lowe. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Stitcher.

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