Egg prices, avian flu & golden yolks, with Vital Farms CEO Russell Diez-Canseco
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Now to the spread of bird flu, which is causing egg prices to soar. Shortages are growing from coast to coast. And at stores with eggs on the shelves, sticker shock. It's like $10 a carton. I'm like, what? The United States Department of Agriculture predicts egg prices will rise another 20% this year.

Hey, everyone. Today's episode, we're delving into the suddenly wild market around eggs. My guest is Russell Diaz Canseco, CEO of leading egg brand Vital Farms. While many egg producers find themselves struggling as avian flu wipes out millions of birds, Vital Farms has managed to keep growing. Its eggs are premium priced, but those prices have mostly stayed stable.

Russell shares how the brand's relationship with farmers, transparency with customers, and unique business model has allowed the company to turn crisis into opportunity. We also talk about why Vital Farms became a B Corp before its IPO, the company's high-profile lawsuit with PETA, and what makes Vital Farms' yolks so orange.

If you're feeling the impact of eggflation, Russell offers valuable context beyond just the eye-popping price tag. So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response. ♪

I'm Bob Safia, and I'm here with Russell Diaz Canseco, CEO of the egg producer Vital Farms. Russell, great to have you with us. Great to be here. So eggs have been in the news a lot lately. The price of eggs in particular up like 50% over the past year and some places more. What's the price of eggs?

What is going on? I know there's talk about bird flu impacting supply and hens lost, although when I go out to the store, there seem to be plenty of eggs, just these big numbers on the price tags. What's going on? You know, there's a fair bit of conjecture about what's going on in the market.

The headline is, yes, a lot of birds have been destroyed over the last couple of years and even more recently in the last few months as a result of avian influenza. And that has resulted in like a supply contraction in the market.

Some would say the price impact has been outsized relative to the amount of that enduring supply contraction and that in earlier instances of this, maybe pricing didn't remain elevated for as long as it is now. What I can tell you is that almost all of those birds that have been, they call it depopulated, they've been killed,

have been on really large farms, farms with a million or more birds in cages, some outside of cages, but all in these big buildings with a lot of birds. And that has resulted in more than 12% of the bird population in the United States being killed over the last year. On our network of small family farms, it's been less than one half of 1%.

And I can't prove to you exactly why we've been so lucky to avoid this issue, but we've been a lot luckier than many. I know your focus is eggs, but you can't be used to all this public attention on eggs. Like, are there things over the last year where you're like, why is this happening? Things that surprised you or made you sort of stop? You know, it's interesting. Certainly eggs are in the headlines for a variety of reasons, right? It was an election year. Food inflation has been an important topic. I don't love that

Egg price inflation in particular is such a focus. I still see eggs as a really high quality, affordable source of protein. And in our case, as a point of entry for conscious consumers looking for better foods produced in a different way. And I don't want eggs to lose that status. So I'm looking forward to a return to normalcy.

You work with local farms all over the country. Are there calls you've gotten or situations that you've had to navigate to help them navigate? We do work with now over 425 small family farms. They're not quite all over the country because we choose a certain part of the country that we call the pasture belt because our birds are meant to be outside.

So we won't do it in the Northeast because it's too cold in the winter. We won't do it in the Southwest because it's too dry, but the Midwest and the near South places like Missouri, Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky are pretty great for our birds. So we don't own those farms, but we're very interactive and supportive of those farmers because we think it's in our best interest for them to be successful. So whether it's technical education on how to weather a challenge like avian influenza or

or financial education on how to maybe manage preventative maintenance on your farm to help those birds be as healthy and productive as you can get them. We spend a lot of time investing in those farmers. And the avian flu, the risk is to the hens, not to the consumers of the eggs, right? Or is that even that not clear?

I certainly haven't heard of any cases of someone getting avian influenza from eating an egg. And we enjoy eggs at our house the way we always have. Yeah, the risk is to the bird. And it's sad. Frankly, our purpose is to improve the lives of people, animals, and the planet through food. The notion that millions of birds are being killed because of this is really heart-wrenching for me.

I think in the last year, in 2024, we had one of our farms affected. And our job at that point is to help facilitate the farmer getting the birds tested as soon as possible, a diagnosis, getting them connected with the right government agencies that kind of take over from there, and then getting birds back to that farmer as soon as possible so he can kind of continue his operation.

Eggs are more expensive than they've been. Vital Farms eggs are particularly expensive, like premium eggs. What makes an egg worth paying extra for, especially when eggs are already more expensive?

When we first started this business, Matt O'Hare is our founder, and he's a serial entrepreneur with a big heart around animal welfare. And he wanted, in an industry that at the time had more than 95% of the laying hens in cages, he wanted to create a business that could liberate some of them. And that's exactly what he ended up doing. So in those early days,

We were the only nationally distributed brand of pasture-raised eggs, this new kind of egg that we were trying to popularize. In the ensuing years, starting as far back as when I joined the company in 2014, there have been lots of options besides Vital Farms to buy that commodity, that thing called a pasture-raised egg. And yet over the years, ours has been the most expensive version of that commodity, and we've been growing...

rapidly with healthy margins. We had an IPO in 2020. And so it's something more than just the features and benefits of the commodity that they're buying. They're buying our purpose and they're buying how we do what we do.

In addition to this certain kind of egg we produce, we operate with a lot of transparency. For example, our egg cartons have the name of the farm from which those eggs came on the end of the carton. And you can see a video of that farm on our website.

When we go to a retailer, for example, we're not just trying to transact with the retailer. We're trying to help them plan their business to achieve their goals. Right now, it's no secret that we're not filling the orders in full. A lot of companies aren't, but we've developed a really powerful brand and demand, especially in light of the fact that we haven't raised prices in over a year.

is really outstripping our supply of those eggs. We're pretty transparent about what we commit to with those retailers. That's a rare thing in this world and certainly in the food system. And that's very appealing to some people.

And if you haven't had to raise prices over the last year when prices of other eggs have gone up, that means that premium is narrower than it used to be, right? Which I guess is good for you. How do you maintain that? Is that something you expect to maintain? Or is pricing, as you're talking about it, it almost sounds like pricing isn't really a challenge or an issue.

There is some balance to the way we think about the choices we make around pricing. We might have built a brand strong enough that we could command an even higher price at some point in the future. We also have a commitment to improving the lives of people, animals, and the planet through food. And we might price ourselves out of some growth that leaves some chickens in cages and leaves some people stuck with an egg that may not be as good for all of our stakeholders. So

We take all that into account when we set pricing. But the truth is that our cost structure has faced some inflation over the last few years, but nothing that would inspire us or force us to double pricing the way we've seen it in the market over the last six months. And that, it sounds like, is because you're using more smaller farms as opposed to these bigger industrial farms.

You know, input costs are what they are. It takes a certain amount of feed and a certain amount of space in a barn and a certain amount of heat in the winter, right? And a certain amount of veterinary care to produce an egg. And those are very sort of measurable, trackable commodities. We feed our birds corn and soy in addition to what they find out on the pasture, for example. Those have not doubled in the last six months.

There is a pricing discovery mechanism for commodity eggs in this market that is driven in part by kind of spot pricing of eggs. And when there's a dislocation of supply, that number can jump up. And suddenly that finds its way into pricing to retailers and pricing on the shelf. We price based on what we think is right as part of the marketing mix, like any other branded company would.

pricing of eggs may fluctuate based on this commodity availability is not what's relevant or, I mean, it's pertinent obviously in some ways, but it's not really relevant to what your pricing is in your market, in the way you think about the market.

That's absolutely right. There have been times over the last 10 years when there were price wars on eggs and that you could find them for 50 cents a dozen at retail and we didn't change our pricing. There have been times like now where some of the cheap, what used to be the cheaper eggs are actually more highly priced than ours. We're actually sometimes not the most expensive egg right now. And that doesn't necessarily change.

prompt us to change pricing. What we found over time is that our ability to grow, our ability to grow profitably is not very correlated to what's going on in the broader egg market. And the idea that eggs may stay at this high price indefinitely, like this may be the level they're at now, that doesn't necessarily change your strategy, impact your strategy one way or the other.

It doesn't. I can't predict the future in terms of what might drive the economics of what we do. For example, you know, one of the really important elements of our operating model is that we develop long-term relationships with these small family farmers. Often they've become egg farmers by working with us. Maybe they weren't doing that already. In most cases, they weren't.

So we develop a relationship by which we buy all the eggs they produce for a certain amount of time, and they agree only to sell them to us. And the price we pay is variable, but it only varies with input costs. So I never want a farmer to be, for example, hurt financially because corn and soy prices went up. So I pay them more when they go up, and I pay them less when they go down. The idea is I want them to have a predictable income stream.

At moments like this, when commodity prices are through the roof, when egg prices are through the roof, it can be tempting to say, hey, maybe I could sell my eggs on the open market and make more than Vitals paying me. And while that doesn't affect what they do during a contract, if a contract is up for renewal, it might catch their attention. Those that I have lived through

times when egg prices weren't so frothy, remember when we were paying them more than the spot price for eggs. And so, you know, we tend to take a long view here and we prefer working with farmers that do as well. I love Russell's explanation of how the egg market works and what makes Vital Farms distinctive.

The brand's resilience through the avian flu troubles is a great reminder of the value of deep relationships with suppliers and with customers. Still, what happens practically when a brand's values collide with near-term business imperatives? We'll dig into that after the break. Stay with us.

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We felt since we opened that having some sort of employee appreciation event was really important to us. Every year, Jillian holds a company-wide celebration to show her staff how vital they are to the success of Union Market. Recently, she used points from her Capital One business card to host her employees at Busch Gardens Theme Park for a day of fun with family and friends.

We buy all of their tickets as well as their plus ones. It's a lot of fun and definitely a great team bonding experience. Capital One really has been great over the years. It's so easy. We could apply these points to supplies, masking tape and Sharpies and ticket receipt paper, but we like to retain them for our employees. That's been really important. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards.

I want to tell you about one of my favorite podcasts that isn't one that we make. It's from New York Magazine, and it's called Pivot. Pivot is hosted by tech journalist and dare I say friend, Kara Swisher, and NYU business professor, Scott Galloway. Every Tuesday and Friday, Kara and Scott break down the major stories of the week in tech and business and politics and more. I always get razor sharp insights, bold and

Before the break, Vital Farms CEO Russell Diaz-Canseco talked about how the brand has fared amid the twin crises of bird flu and eggflation.

Now he talks about what he learned in a legal battle with PETA, why he brought his son to Vital Farms as IPO, and what makes the company's distinctively orange-yolked eggs different. Let's dive back in. I've had conversations with, like, the head of Impossible Foods who's talked about, you know, branding for meat alternatives differently.

The environmental message doesn't work. What works is talking about that it tastes great. It sounds like for you with Vital Farms, you're sort of straddling both. I mean, you're making an argument about sort of broader stakeholder impact, not just that these eggs taste better. I had an epiphany back in 2016. We finally had our first marketing leader.

And we were doing what they call consumer ethnography work. So we're at a store in Minneapolis, and we're shopping with this woman, this shopper. She's going through the dairy set. She takes some milk and puts it in her cart, and the facilitator asks her some questions. Why did you choose that milk? Why a quart instead of a half gallon? I see the cart and says organic. What does organic mean to you, etc.?

And this continues. She picks out some bacon, same questions, picks out some eggs, same questions. And by the third or fourth item, the woman kind of got frustrated and she turned around, she kind of threw up her hands and she said, look, I feel like every week I hear another story, read another story about a producer of food who lied, who got caught cheating, not doing the thing that they told me they were doing.

And the reality is, you're asking about all these words on the package, but the reality is, if I trust the brand, I'm not actually paying all that much attention to the claims. And so I think what we've been able to do, it's not easy, is we've been able to build a brand around trust and transparency. Not that we're perfect, not that we're everything to everyone, but that we do what we say and we say what we do. And that's hard to come by in this country. It's true. She's right.

I mean, I'm remembering last fall, Vital Farms came under some scrutiny regarding animal welfare practice, I think from groups like Pettit and some other plaintiffs at the farms you work with. I mean, that can have been good for the brand and building trust with customers.

We did. We got sued by a group of class action attorneys and PETA was a part of that. We prevailed. The case was dismissed with prejudice. Like, we didn't settle. Essentially, the assertion was, you say you're an ethical food company. In our opinion, ethical food can't be produced by animals. Therefore, you are misleading consumers. But there was no, like, gotcha video. There was no, we caught you doing something you didn't tell us you were doing. Like I said, we're not perfect for everyone.

The important part is that we're transparent about what we do and that we don't do anything to lose that trust. Episodes like this, like the headlines come out and a lot of people, like the woman you're talking about in the supermarket, just sees the headlines, right? Well, it can be incredibly frustrating. It's funny, in that specific example, it's not lost on me that PETA doesn't sue big industrial factory farmers.

Because big industrial factory farmers aren't competing with PETA for the consumer's attention. We are, right? Because we are appealing to conscious consumers. They're appealing to conscious consumers. They have sued Whole Foods a whole lot of times. Maybe it sounds like hubris, but there's a certain almost confirmation, a little bit point of pride that if PETA sues you, maybe you're onto something.

And there aren't necessarily sort of strategic lessons that you took from that experience? Well, a few things come to mind because what happened that you were referring to from 2024, it became what I would describe as clickbait. You know, we're a popular brand amongst conscious consumers. If you're trying to build your personal brand amongst conscious consumers, one way is to attack the thing that they trust.

I think one of the things that helps a company like ours sort of ride that wave is that we do have the courage of our convictions, that our crew members can be confident we are doing what we said and saying what we do. So they're not back on their heels. There was a lot of ownership amongst the people in my company to really get our story out there and defend ourselves against what I would describe as baseless attacks.

And that's what it's all about. You can't fake your way to the kind of trust that we have. And you can't fake your way to getting an entire company full of crew members to do what it took to get our story out there.

So, it was a great test, I think, of the resilience we built as a company internally and a great test of whether we're really doing what we say. Yeah, I mean, Vital Farms is, along with being a public company, is a certified B Corp. And you've said that being a B Corp helps your shareholders, that it strengthens the competitive edge. Is that what you're talking about with this example?

What I would say about being a B Corp and a public benefit corporation, when we went public in 2020, we did it with a lot of introspection because there's a lot of conjecture that when you're in a public company, you become beholden to short-term results. You start to operate in a different way. It can be tempting maybe to compromise on your values. And it was important to us that we not allow that to happen. One way that our

Pre-IPO investors, our board was primarily comprised of venture capital and private equity firms that had invested in us over time. One way that they put their money where their mouths were

was they chose to have Vital Farms reincorporated as a public benefit corporation. One of the main features of that is that our charter basically says, I don't have to just maximize shareholder value. I have to define the impact we'll have on other stakeholders. And I need to consider the other stakeholders when running the company.

Well, presumably, if you are a traditional investor who thinks that

shareholders are the only ones that matter, you might be put off by that. You might think that that is not going to be great for your profitability in making an investment in Vital Farms. And presumably that in turn results in a drag on the stock price at the IPO. My private company investors said, if this is what it takes to help ensure that you're protected from the vagaries of the public market, we're willing to do that. And that's exactly what they did.

And I guess, I mean, part of the philosophy behind that is that in the long run, that will help the company be more valuable in the long term, right? It's just you're not having to react in the same way to short-term investors and short-term market turns. I commonly get the question, how do you balance purpose and profits? There's a trade-off implied in the question, and I don't see one.

I think of purpose as a driver of our long-term success, and that includes the profitable growth of the company. The fastest way for me to destroy value as a company would be to compromise on my values and do something to destroy trust. But yeah, I think I have a really big responsibility to make sure that the investments we make in our people, in our farmers, in the environment,

find their way back to our income statement or our balance sheet over time, I don't think you can have a dissatisfying compromise for too long or else I think you're going to be in trouble with some of your stakeholders. I know you've mentioned before that you sometimes bring your wife and your family along when you go visit a new farm. What is that about? Where did that come from?

So, you know, I've been very lucky in my career. I've got some really wonderful companies that I've been a part of, learned a lot over the years. One of the things I faced over a lot of years in my career was that age-old question about work-life balance. How do you say goodbye to your kid on Monday morning on the way to the airport and come back on Thursday night and not feel like you left something on the table that week? As good as the job might be.

And one of the things that was important to me in this job was that I find a way to better integrate what was important to me at home with what was important to me at work. And part of it was this theory that if I could bring my family along with me sometimes and it was less of a mystery what I was doing when I wasn't at home.

maybe it wouldn't be so dissatisfying for us not to be together every day. So my first year at Vital Farms, we developed a relationship with a group of farmers that had been producing eggs for another egg company that was selling them to us. And we started to work directly with them. And that takes a lot of trust because we hadn't really done that before. And we were great at marketing and sales, but back then we didn't have a lot of experience supporting the farmers directly.

And these farmers were all Mennonite farmers, deeply faith-driven in everything they did, very family-oriented. They wanted to be egg farmers because they wanted to be able to provide for their families on their farm. They didn't want to go into town to have a job.

It was important for me that they understood that I felt strongly about my family too. It was important for me to introduce my family to those farmers so they could see why I was so passionate about helping them be successful. It personalized it for them. So in January of 2015, on a very cold Monday, my wife and my son and I flew up to Missouri. She brought 14 bags of her homemade organic granola, which is like kryptonite, it's amazing.

And we went farm to farm and my son at the time was maybe eight. His name's Nathan. And we introduced ourselves and we gave them the granola and met their family and told them how much we appreciated the chance to work with them. And it, I think it made a real impact. So it sounds like this is both good for your family and your family life and yourself and

but also good for the business. I mean, you weren't just doing it because it was good for the family. It also helped anchor those relationships. But isn't it neat that

those two things coincided? And isn't it rare for those two things to coincide? It was absolutely great for the business and great for my family. And that's been a theme of my experience at this company and what I want for all of my crew. My son was in the kickoff meeting for the IPO with all the bankers and lawyers because I wanted him to see what that was like. He was 12. We had breakfast tacos. It

And I think that's great for us as a family. And I think it's great for our stakeholders to see that that's a value that we hold. My wife will kill me if I don't ask you this question. So the yellow of the yolks, they're like a different color in the file farm's eggs than the other eggs that she gets. Like, why is that? How does that happen? Does it, like, what does it mean? So yolk color is driven by what the bird eats.

And there is some influence

to yolk color when a bird goes outside and eats something besides the corn and soy that's the primary role in their diet. Most eggs naturally have a pretty pale yolk because most chickens that are raised in cages are fed corn and soybeans, and they result in a certain level of a certain color. Consumers have told us very clearly that they want a more orange yolk. And we eat with our eyes as much as with our other senses.

And so we're able to add other natural ingredients to the feed to achieve that yolk color. And with us, it's primarily marigolds and paprika, of all things. There's nothing artificial about it. If it's an organic egg, those things are organic. But it really contributes to the enjoyment of the eggs, and it's what our consumers want. So, Russell, what's at stake for Vital Farms right now?

Our goal is to build America's most trusted food brand. And the way we build America's most trusted food company is by operating in a certain way, a very values and purpose-driven way of operating.

So from that sense, what's really important, what's at stake is how do we continue to scale a world-class organization with a very strong culture in a remote environment? We went remote in 2020. We're still remote first. We've got some crew members who are packing eggs or servicing farms that need to be in a certain location. And a lot of us work from home.

That's top of mind for me because long before it shows up in any performance indicator, there's always that risk that you do something to lose trust, that you do something to upset the culture you've built. So that's a primary focus for me. For all the chickens, it's about the people.

It's an interesting way, but I think an appropriate way to put it. Like, again, we have an awful lot of focus on treating those chickens well and helping make sure that they don't get sick from avian influenza. And it's working. But...

It takes vigilance. It takes a lot of ownership on the part of everybody, the farmers and our crew members who support them, and great execution. And those things are hard to come by, I think, in many respects. And so we work really hard to make sure that we maintain that level of commitment. Russell, this was great. Thank you so much for doing that. Really appreciate it. Thanks very much.

So what makes an egg business special? The chickens or the people? Sounds like the start of a bad bar joke. But Russell's commitment to transparency for Vital Farms' people and its products isn't comedy. It's hardcore commerce. What he's learned in Eggflation and what Vital Farms has demonstrated is that consistent attention to brand promise pays off, especially amid crisis. We need to stay true to ourselves.

For a chicken, maybe that's easy. For the rest of us, it can take work and discipline. And that's a good thing. I'm Bob Safian. Thanks for listening. The Lobatical is for any employees who have been with us for five years to take a vacation. They get a week of extra PTO. They get to pick anywhere in the world that they want to travel. And we allow that to happen for them.

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Rapid Response is a Wait What original. I'm Bob Safian. Our executive producer is Eve Troh. Our producer is Alex Morris. Assistant producer is Masha Makutonina. Mixing and mastering by Aaron Bastinelli. Theme music by Ryan Holiday. Our head of podcast is Lital Malad. For more, visit rapidresponcesshow.com.