Leon Logothetis on His Epic Journey To Freedom Documented on Netflix & Amazon Prime
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Hi, welcome everyone. Welcome to the Mindfulness Exercises podcast. I'm Sean Fargo. Today, I have the honor of speaking with Leon Lagothitis, aka The Kindness Guy. You may have seen his recent documentary on Amazon Prime called The Kindness Within, A Journey to Freedom.

And for everyone listening or watching, I highly recommend going to watch that. Leon, before becoming a global adventurer and TV host and motivational speaker and best-selling author of five books, Leon lived an uninspired life as a finance professional in London. Though seemingly successful, he was chronically depressed.

And to change his life, he gave it all up for a life on the road fueled by giving and receiving kindness. Traveling to over a hundred countries, he found humanity's essence and the bonds connecting people worldwide.

Through kindness, he saw that comparing similarities rather than differences created a brighter future. For over a decade, Leon has inspired the world with this message of kindness and hope. This shines through his hit TV show, The Kindness Diaries on Discovery Plus, and through his new documentary, The Kindness Within on Amazon Prime. When not making shows or writing,

Leon travels speaking about kindness, compassion, and empathy. His goal is to make a positive impact. He also founded Winston Entertainment,

producing content highlighting the good side of humanity. Leon Lagothidis, welcome to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, it's an honor to meet you. You've been doing this for quite a while, living a lifestyle that I think many would dream of, benefiting the planet, helping people with their mental health and spiritual health,

and traveling the world. Love to start to hear about your journey in your documentary, you talk about how this journey started with a suicide note where you wanted to end your life. Can you talk about where you were mentally at that time and what spurred this big shift in your life?

Sure, sure. So I have to go many years back to get to answer your question in order for people to fully understand. So I used to, as you mentioned, I used to be a broker in the city of London. And on the outside, I had pretty much everything you could ever want. But on the inside, I had pretty much nothing you would want. But no one knew because I was wearing a mask, not the COVID-19 type.

the psychological mask that says, "Oh, everything's okay." But everything was not okay. I ended up stumbling across the movie, The Motorcycle Diaries, which is a romanticized version of Che Guevara traveling around South America, relying entirely on kindness. I don't know if you've ever seen a movie, hopefully mine, but that touches you so much that you think the director's talking directly at you.

That's what happened to me with the Motorcycle Diaries. So to cut a long story short, I quit my job and I started to travel around the world, relying entirely on the kindness of strangers. And I hitchhiked from Times Square to the Hollywood sign. I hitchhiked from the Eiffel Tower to Red Square in Moscow, got a vintage taxi and drove it from New York to LA, giving free cab rides to people. I did all these crazy things.

And that culminated in the craziest thing, which was buying a vintage yellow motorcycle with a sidecar called Kindness One, sort of like Air Force One, but a little bit yellower. And I drove that from LA all the way around the world back to LA. I had no money, no food, no gas, no place to stay. All I had was relying on kindness. You couldn't give me money, just generosity.

and i did another season of that where i went from alaska to argentina doing the same thing um and i thought i'd arrived after after i had finished that right i got the netflix show i got books i got speaking engagements i was on top press and i thought that i'd fixed myself right but unfortunately what had happened was i'd kind of again fix the outside and not fix the inside right um

Um, and that leads us to being in Los Angeles where I live, being in my bed and writing this note because I realized that everything I had done, not that I wasn't proud of all the success, but it hadn't healed my heart. Um, so I was writing this note. Unfortunately, I called my therapist. It was 11 o'clock at night and randomly or not randomly, he picked up the phone.

And he talked me through it. And obviously I didn't act on it. And here I am. I mean, that's the short version of how I ended up writing that note and not acting on it. And it was interesting because the next day, and this leads into the movie, the next day I went to a bookshop, a bookshop that I'd been to hundreds of times in Venice Beach. And I randomly saw a

Again, randomly, I don't know, but I randomly saw the autobiography of a yogi, which I had seen so many times before, and I'd never picked it up, ever. So this time I decided to pick it up. And I picked it up, and I randomly opened it to a page, and I randomly looked at a paragraph.

And in that paragraph, Paramahansa Yogananda, who wrote the book, said to his soon-to-be guru, if you reveal God to me, I will follow you anywhere. And I had an epiphany. And I'm not talking about the God that lives up in the sky. I'm talking about universal energy of love, source, universe, whatever you want to call it. But I had an epiphany. And I decided that I was going to go to India. And I wasn't going to return until I found God.

And that's really the nature of the documentary. So that was kind of a long-winded answer to your question. There's a lot there to unpack. And yeah, it's a fascinating life you've lived so far. I'm really glad that you didn't take your life. I'm really curious, when you watch the Motorcycle Diaries and you're a broker in London, you're chronically depressed, you're wearing a mask of sorts,

maybe a suit was a form of a mask perhaps, but I'm curious, what about the motorcycle diary spoke to you? I'm guessing that there's something heart-based in the movie that kind of reminded you of, say, your essence that you had perhaps lost or that kindness was a value of yours that

wasn't being prioritized in your life. What about the movie do you think really spoke to you at your heart or your soul for you to start this journey? So that's a great question. The movie opened my eyes to the potential of humanity. It opened my eyes and my heart to connection. It opened my eyes and my heart to adventure, to travel, to going out and giving back.

and emotionally connecting with the world and the people that live in it. And it was such a powerful reminder of what I'd lost. I wasn't conscious of what I'd lost, right? I was working and doing what I thought was the right thing to do, but I had lost my humanity and I'd lost my connection to my humanity and to your humanity.

And I think the movie was a very, very profound wake-up call. It was like, there's another way to live. And I think another thing that happened with the movie was that, again, it's a romanticized version, but basically Che Guevara's father in the movie wanted him to be a doctor. And Che said, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to go and have this great adventure.

And that's kind of what happened to me, right? Like I felt that I was supposed to do one thing and never had the courage until that moment to do something else. And the movie woke me up in that way. Yeah, I was going to say that is a tremendous amount of courage to essentially give up your way of life. And I'm assuming, you know, decent money and...

all the things that come with that in order to get on a motorcycle and rely solely on the generosity of others. People say that about people who become, say, Buddhist monks or monastics of different sorts, that they give up everything in order to tap into

you know, humanity and love. But they also know that within the traditions of a monastery, they're going to be fed every day. They're going to have a roof over their head. You, on the other hand, relied solely on the generosity of others without any guarantees of a tradition to support you or anything

lay people devotedly prostrating themselves towards you, giving you food or a place to stay just because you wore robes. Like you went out as a lay person in the West on a motorcycle, relying solely on the generosity and kindness of others. And that takes, in my opinion, a greater amount of courage in many ways.

to surrender everything that you had had to gain you know something more fulfilling can you talk about the the courage it took to do that that any fears that arose along the way and what you learned through that process look i think that uh my pain was my emotional pain was so acute

And this is before the note, right? This happened years before that. This is leaving after the movie, right? The motorcycle diarist. The pain was so acute that I, in some ways, didn't have a choice. So you could argue, well, you were courageous, but you could also argue that it wasn't because I had no choice. I had to do something different. I had to change or it was going to end very badly.

So the fears, of course, there were lots of fears. But again, I didn't really think too much about what I was doing because the pain was so great that I just felt I had to do this. And I didn't think too much about what it was I was doing because if I thought about it, I wouldn't do it. The first trip I ever did was I hitchhiked from Times Square to the Hollywood sign.

And when I arrived in the Hollywood sign, I was like, I started to realize what on earth I'd done. Like, oh my God, I've quit my job. And now I'm actually going to hitchhike to the Hollywood sign. I mean, that's madness. How the hell am I going to hitchhike to the Hollywood sign? I mean, that's just insane. But I had no choice at that moment because I had started this thing and I certainly wasn't going to give up.

or, you know, call my father and say, can I have my job back? Right. I mean, that wasn't what I was going to do. So they say, and I'm not even sure if this is true, but they do say that the conquistadors burnt their ships and they burnt their ships so that they couldn't go home and they had to keep going on some level. That's what I did. I burnt my ships and I had to get to the Hollywood sign. That was the first thing that I did. Uh, and I did, I got to the Hollywood sign. Uh, it was a crazy adventure, but it was a life changing one. Um,

And I think the last part of that question was the lessons I learned. And again, I'm just talking about that first thing, right? Well, with the lessons, I'll talk about all the lessons up until the movie, let's say, all the lessons I've had. And then we'll go into the lessons of the movie later. So look, the lessons I learned, I mean, they were life-changing. I often say that travel is the school of life.

The greatest lesson I learned, and there were many, but the greatest lesson I learned was that we are all the same. What do I mean by that? At the essence and at the base of our humanity, we are all the same. We want to be seen, we want to be heard, and we want to be loved. Irrespective of how much money you have,

irrespective of what color you are, irrespective of your religion, at the very base of our humanity, at our essence, we are the same. And I learned that profoundly when I was in India.

So this was the journey where I took the yellow motorbike around the world. I ended up in Delhi and I ended up sleeping in the slums for three nights. That morning I woke up because I'd met this guy. That morning I woke up and I went downstairs and I looked outside and I saw this mother kiss her two kids goodbye for school. Now, if you've been to a slum in India, you'll know that there's a lot of poverty. It's extreme poverty.

but there's also a lot of love. And as she kissed her kids goodbye for school, I realized that her love for her kids is exactly the same as your love for your kids. We are the same. And that was a profound lesson. And it took me to traveling to over a hundred countries, not just that one experience, but to realize that. And there were so many, we could be here for hours. It could be all the lessons I've learned on my trip, but that was the most profound one for sure.

Yeah, it's very profound. You mentioned that quote from the book Autobiography of a Yogi, which I highly recommend to people listening, that in the Venice bookstore, you opened up the book randomly and found that quote that, if you can show me God, I will follow you anywhere, and that that set you off to India, I believe.

Is there something around you surrendering everything that you had gained, so to speak, living the lifestyle of a yogi in some ways, where you have kindness as your signpost, as your

North Star for this whole journey that I'm wondering if there's a sense of showing a glimpse of God

to people on your journey through this act of asceticism, communicating with people with kindness as your explicit purpose, that they kind of were wanting a glimpse of God, that they would support you as a way to connect with something greater in themselves. Does that make sense? That's a brilliant question. And

Sometimes people, I never thought of it like that, but sometimes people said to me, and this is not in the movie, this is before the kindness diaries. Some people said to me, why on earth did others help you? Why were they helping you? And look, not everyone helped me. Let's be clear. If you watch the kindness diaries, which is actually now on Roku, you'll see that a lot of people did not help me, but why did they help me? And I think you're right. They wanted to

Feel one of the reasons they wanted to feel a connection to themselves a connection to God through their connection with me and

Right. And through this crazy man who was traveling around the world, relying on kindness and, and they wanted to feel love. They wanted to feel hope. They wanted to feel that universal energy that flows through all of us. And I was just a conduit for them. So that's a brilliant question. No one's ever asked me that. And I've been asked many, many, many questions about this show. Yeah. And you know, I agree with you. I think we all want to be seen and heard and loved. Yeah.

And, you know, there's many portals to that. And, you know, I think you document that in your documentary, The Kindness Within, A Journey to Freedom. You know, there's portals, you know, in the exterior that can kind of help remind us that it's already within. Can you talk about like how you're

journey on the outside, which is, you know, you've had many journeys on the outside, you know, around planet Earth that are quite epic, but how that those physical journeys have made your made their way into the heart and soul and how you might recommend other people to kind of, you know, peel the layers of the onion, so to speak, and

to find that within themselves in a way that is, say, sincere? That's another brilliant question. So I always say that travel is not just an external journey. Ultimately, it is an internal journey. And the beauty of travel for me has not just been the external experiences that I've had. It's really been the internal life-changing experiences I've had.

Um, if you're, for example, in Nepal, one of the first spiritual moments of awakening that I had, I had been hiking in Nepal for a week or so. And I had a moment, this was many years ago. And I had a moment where I was like, you know what? I can't do this anymore. I can't hike anymore. So I went, I found a really, really nice hotel and I stayed there for two nights. And I remember the first moment I got to the hotel, went to my room and then I went out into the grounds and I saw,

the most beautiful sunset. And in that moment, I absolutely realized that there was so much going on inside me that I had just not been connected to. And it was my first moment of having a spiritual awakening.

And that may or may not have happened had I been at home. I think the fact that I was in the pool, the fact that I'd been hiking, the fact that I went to a really nice hotel, saw this amazing sunset was all played into this spiritual moment of mine. But that spiritual moment happened within me. And if you can transform, that's why we call the movie The Kindness Within.

It's if you can transform within, and I feel like with you, I'm obviously preaching to the choir, but if you can transform within, everything will change outside you. Your whole life will change if you concentrate on within. But what we've done, for whatever reason, we've created this society, culture, civilization, whatever you want to call it, where it's all geared to fixing problems.

as opposed to inside. There's nothing wrong with getting cool stuff. There's nothing wrong with having all these amazing experiences, but if those experiences don't translate to something magnificent inside, then they'll in some way will be hollow. Yeah. Fully agreed. And speaking of that journey within, in your documentary, the kindness within you,

had an interview with Sadhguru and he had a powerful quote. I don't have the quote in front of me, but he said something to the effect of how in order to find freedom, which is what we're all looking for in some way, that it's very helpful to realize that it's not the externals that determine our experience,

but rather we have the choice of how to respond to each unfolding experience as it happens. That when we realize that it's really how we respond that determines our freedom, we can take a full step forward into that freedom. Unfortunately, most people, if they take a step at all, it's a half-step or it's a step with fear.

or trepidation, or not fully believing this truth. And your journey is a documentary of you taking leaps into this sense of trust that you can choose your experience with heart, with kindness. And it's an unfolding experience

more and more freedom. So can you talk about how you and your experience kind of discovered this sense of choice of kindness and how

you learn to trust yourself to take bigger and bigger steps forward into that lived experience? Sure. First of all, I don't do any of what I'm sharing perfectly by any stretch of the imagination, right? When I give my speeches or chat with people, I often tell them that they are getting the best version of Leon, right? So the best version of Leon is now on your podcast. The worst version of Leon, well, you know, you probably wouldn't,

No one would want to listen to it. Or maybe they would. Who knows? But look, I think a wise man once said to me, and obviously this is something that has been said many times, but there's that space whereby we get to choose our reaction. And often I talk for myself here. I never had the capacity or the ability to choose my reaction. Someone would say something and I would just react. Something would happen to me and I would just react.

And sometimes that still does happen, but it happens less. So now, because of all the stuff I've done, because of all the travels, because of all the experiences, if something happens to me that I don't like, generally, there are certain things that I have less control over, but generally, I am able to be like, hmm, okay.

how do you want to react even if it's like a minuscule moment of space where you can think about what to do that's that's that's life-changing and if you don't this i speak for myself here but if you don't meditate if you don't you know

pray, if you don't go out into nature, if you don't calm yourself down, however that may be through music, et cetera, et cetera, have some kind of practice, then it becomes very, very, very difficult to live in that small space where you get the opportunity to react differently. Beautiful. Well said. And I'd love to, um,

Dive a little bit deeper into those ways that we can create more space in between the stimulus and response that I think you're referring to from Viktor Frankl. You traveled the world and, you know, communicated with.

and spiritual advisors from many traditions. Are there certain practices or meditations that

you found particularly interesting or helpful for you on your journey? Well, I mean, I do different types of meditation. For me, I live in LA, so I live near some really, really cool hikes. I just came back from a hike. For me, one of the most beautiful ways to meditate is literally to take a hike. Leave your phone and just go for a hike.

And it's a beautiful way to just center yourself. Then obviously there's the meditation meditation, which I've found to be very helpful. And another thing that I do, again, this isn't new, but I heard this many years ago and only recently started to realize that it's true, is everything is a meditation. Me and you having this conversation is a meditation.

right it's like how we show up in this podcast together is a meditation one of the things i love doing that really calms me down and i've shared this before is that i find a song that calms me down that touches my heart and i listen to it on repeat if i'm anxious after listening to that song on repeat for maybe 30 minutes instead of being 90 anxious i will be 50 anxious

And it's such a simple thing that anyone can do at any point. Just put a song on repeat that calms you down and listen to it until you are no longer as anxious as you were. It sounds so simple, but it has helped me so much. Beautiful. Any songs that you recommend or artists? The current song that I'm listening to that has calmed me down is called Soft Shell Crab by Mowgli.

So beautiful. Just literally like, it just calms me down. I was listening to it before our call. Mowgli, M-O-W-G-L-I. Mowgli. Okay. Yeah. Soft shell crab. What a great song. Well, it almost sounds like a metaphor, you know, like, you know, most crabs have these hard shells, right?

um for protection and you know bracing against things but may we all be soft shell crabs you know it with the right circumstances as long as we're safe but yeah that is exactly what it is I never even thought about that I was thinking to myself why did you call this soft shell crab but that's exactly what it is because she talks about that he calls me

His soft shell crab, I think she says. Something like that. Sweet. Yeah, wow, that's beautiful. There you go. Yeah, yeah. In your documentary, you feature a quote that I found very inspiring from Atticus. "'Your scars are not your shame. "'They are your story.' "'And I love stories. "'Your scars are not your shame. "'They are your story.'

And I love stories. And, you know, a lot of people, I think, are afraid to be vulnerable, to share their scars because they're afraid of judgment, that they're a bad person or that they're not worthy or that they should have done something different or that they still should do something different. And I think there's an epidemic of shame these days, at least in the West, where

people feel like they need to be someone who they're not or do something that they're they don't want to do that um they aren't loved they're not heard they're not seen and therefore they're not worthy and you know with your documentary your books your you know tv shows you

share your scars and your stories. And, you know, it hasn't killed you. People aren't judging you. You're still here. And if anything, it's helped people to connect with you as a human being, as someone on the journey who, you know, may be, you know, your best version on this podcast. But we all know that, you know, you have your tough times, too.

Maybe I'll book the worst version of Leon for my next podcast. Okay. But can you share any words for people who do feel shame about their scars or who feel like it's unsafe to be vulnerable to share their stories? What have you learned by sharing your story?

Yeah, that's another great question. So I understand people's vulnerability. And I think that our, their vulnerability is because we have shared our pain with the wrong people. We have shared our pain with people who we wish would love us the way we deserve to be loved, but they have taken our vulnerability and squashed it.

And because of that, we have decided not to share our pain and our vulnerability with anyone. And I understand that. What I would say is the way out of that is to find at least or just one human being that you can share your pain with who is safe. Just one human being.

Because if we share our pain with someone who is unsafe, it does irrevocable damage. Not irrevocable. It does a lot of damage. All damage can be fixed. So my suggestion is to speak to a friend who's safe, to speak to a parent who's safe, to speak to someone, if that's a therapist,

Go to a therapist. And some people say to me, oh, well, Leon, I don't have the money to go to a therapist. I understand that. However, there is a solution. And the solution is, I'll tell you a story about a friend of mine. I have a friend who has financial issues but wanted to go to a therapist. So he found trainee therapists from universities where normal therapists cost $150 and this therapist cost $10.

So there is always a way to find at least one human being who can hear you, who can see you, and who can love you.

And who ultimately can witness who you are. Because that's the most important thing. To have at least one witness of who you are. Beautiful. Yeah. And this may sound controversial, but I think there are ways that ChatGPT can support our journeys to find methods or...

practices or assurance of how we can find self-love or how we can work through our stories, ways that we can process some of our wounds. But yeah, I agree. I think we shouldn't let finances be a prohibiting factor here. I think that most mindfulness and meditation teachers

who are worth their weight in salt offer some form of um scholarship or you know free resources to find support because yeah and also I will say that let's say let's exaggerate a little bit and let's say that you don't have ten dollars okay

I understand. However, there are so many YouTube videos that can change lives. Like there was a moment in time when I was trying to understand narcissism. So I watched hundreds, hundreds of videos on narcissism. I'm not an expert, but now I understand it. And that didn't cost me anything. So there's always a way.

There is always a way. If you want to find it. If you don't, that's okay. When you do, you will. Absolutely. Well said. I'm wondering, you mentioned your dad once or twice. I'm wondering how the people who knew you before the Motorcycle Diaries, how they responded to

I know that's a big question and there's many people you knew before and maybe not all of them took well to this transformation, but can you share how the people from your quote-unquote past has responded to your transformation? Is there anything surprising or revelatory there?

that, um, you've experienced from those people from your past? So I would say that at the beginning of this process, which is when I watched the movie and I started to travel around the world, rely on kindness. Many people thought I was, you know, a bit insane, which I get. I mean, you know, I was, I mean, who quits their job and then goes and hitchhikes across America? Not many people I know. Uh, so it was a bit insane, right? But as time went on,

And they, and that actually, there's nothing wrong with, with, with, with a little bit of madness, let's say a little bit of divine madness. Sometimes that's a good thing. Um, so I, you know, I ended up, uh, doing all these crazy things and learning so much. And I think after a while they kind of understood, they saw the shifts, they saw the changes. And I would say there was, you know, for my family, a level of respect, um,

that I had done what I wanted to do because most of us don't do that. And I understand it's not easy to do that. I had a certain set of unique circumstances that enabled me to do what I needed to do. And there are others that can't do that. But even if you don't have the same unique circumstances I had, there's always a way. If you want to find that path, you will find it. If you don't want to find that path, you will never find it.

Yeah, I guess it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you really want to do it, you will. But if you really don't want to do it, then you won't. What do you hope people will feel or learn or experience as they watch The Kindness Within on Amazon Prime? That there is another way to live.

and that the new way to live is from the heart. I'm not saying don't go out there and make money, be famous, become successful, do whatever you want. God bless you. Go and do all of those things. But if you live from the heart and you live from a place of love, everything will change. And I'm not the first person to say that, and I won't be the last person to say that. But you have to have that moment of awakening, even if it's a small little moment to go on that journey.

And sometimes it's a big moment. Sometimes it's a small moment. You could argue that me having that moment with the sunset in Nepal was a really small moment. But in fact, it was a huge moment. And it took 25 years from that moment to get to here. But that was the first moment. And did I realize that whilst I was watching the sunset? Maybe not, but I did realize that something magical had happened. And it took a lot of hard work and a lot of dedication to get to where I am today.

But here I am. So what I hope that the movie does is it wakes people up even a very small amount. Even if you watch that movie and you have a moment like I had in Nepal, that's enough because you'll never forget that moment. And you'll sit there years afterwards and you'll be like, hmm, when I watched that movie, something happened, something shifted.

And here I am now because of that. And what's next on your journey? Do you have another trip, book, show? What's next for you? Yeah. So, you know, I made a decision that after the movie, after I completed promoting the movie, whilst promoting the movie, that I really wasn't going to do too much. I was just going to focus on this and whatever would happen afterwards would happen.

i spent most of my life doing i don't know if you remember in the movie there's a scene where i'm sitting by the statue of shiva in rishikesh and uh i'm talking to nandini g this very magnificent lady and i said to her look i basically what i said to her was look i want what you have how do i get it and she said to me don't do just be

And I was like, all right, I'm going home now. No, but it was such a beautiful comment. And I'm trying to live my life like that. You know, there are a few things happening, but nothing major. I've just, what will be will be. I'm trying to be, and we'll see what happens. The doing may come, but just generally don't do just be. Yeah, actually, thank you for bringing that up. I wanted to ask you about that. She said it quite convincingly and very directly and,

and she repeated it. And yeah, just the way she said it with so much confidence was so powerful. And I think that that's a wonderful takeaway for a lot of us, myself included, that even when we practice meditation or mindfulness, a lot of us can approach it from this lens of trying to get somewhere

or trying to force something to happen, trying to get something when it's really about the journey of the process of meeting this moment however it is. We can meet sadness and fear just as we can meet courage and joy.

And we just be with whatever's here. We be with our raw emotions, our raw felt experience, what's happening in the world. We can be with it with that sense of care and witnessing and listening. These elements of God, of love. And, you know, we can keep following that until...

our final breaths and beyond, but that it's not about the destination. It's not about getting something or doing something just for the sake of it. It's about being with it. At least that's one approach. And

And it's a little ironic that that can take effort. It takes effort to simply be and surrender to what's here and work with our reactivity and judgments that crop up out of pattern and fear.

but we can cultivate this sense of beingness over time. And I think your movie, your documentary, and it sounds just like your aura, your mission in general is to help people to find that within themselves with that sense of gentle kindness, to bring that to ourselves and to others through knowing that we're all the same essentially.

And that there's really nothing to fear in like otherness or xenophobia or anything like that. Yeah. Leon, would you like to share anything as we wrap up this conversation that you'd like our listeners to hear or anything that you'd encourage them to try? Again, The Kindness Within is on Amazon Prime. We'll have the website and the show notes and

um be sharing all that website is leon logothetis.com l-e-o-n-l-o-g-o-t-h-e-t-i-s.com um what would you like to share as we wrap up this conversation today so as you can tell from my accent i'm i'm english i was born in london and uh

I'm a student of history and Winston Churchill had many good quotes, but one of my favorite quotes of his was, "When you find yourself walking through hell, keep walking." And what do I think he meant by that? When you're suffering, keep going because ultimately you're going to come out of suffering and you're going to be a much, much better human being. So that would be my final word. Whatever you're going through, find someone to share your pain with and keep going.

Because I am an example of someone that kept walking through hell and here I am because of that. So that would, that would be it. Wow. Keep walking and yeah. Find someone to share that with. That's really powerful. Thank you so much, Leon. It's been an honor speaking with you today. I am, I applaud your journey and your mission. I think you've done extraordinary things for humanity and I,

Keep walking, keep writing. I will. Thank you so much. Absolutely. So thank you, Leon. And please visit leonlogothetis.com. Stream The Kindness Within, A Journey to Freedom on Amazon Prime. And once again, Leon, thank you so much for coming. It was a pleasure speaking with you today. Thank you very much. Thank you.