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cover of episode Ståle Holgersen, "Against the Crisis: Economy and Ecology in a Burning World" (Verso, 2024)

Ståle Holgersen, "Against the Crisis: Economy and Ecology in a Burning World" (Verso, 2024)

2025/4/9
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Ståle Holgersen: 我认为经济危机和生态危机是资本主义内在矛盾的体现，两者紧密相连，而非相互独立的现象。我将危机定义为一个相对迅速发生的事件，该事件嵌入于潜在的进程或结构中，并对人类或自然产生负面影响。我区分了危机、灾难和困境三个概念。我认为经济危机在资本主义制度下具有系统性特征，并以规律性出现，这与前资本主义时代有所不同。我们不应该过度依赖20世纪的经验来理解21世纪的危机，而应该从更长远的历史视角出发进行思考。我不认为危机是机遇，因为历史上左翼或环保运动并没有在重大危机中获得显著进展。我更倾向于使用“资本世”（Capitalocene）而非“人类世”（Anthropocene）来描述当前的地质时代，因为这更能体现资本主义在环境危机中的作用。我认为经济危机和生态危机的解决方式不同：经济危机必须立即解决以恢复经济增长，而生态危机则不必立即解决。我认为经济危机和生态危机具有不同的时间维度：经济危机的时间维度相对明确，而生态危机，特别是全球变暖，其时间维度则更为复杂和难以预测。我认为全球变暖应该被视为一场危机，因为它在生物学时间尺度上发生得非常迅速，并且会产生一系列无法预测的连锁反应。我认为当权者对气候危机的反应与他们对经济危机的反应不同：他们更愿意采取措施应对经济危机以维护自身利益，而对气候危机的应对则相对迟缓和不力。我认为当权者对气候危机的应对迟缓，部分原因在于气候危机触及了资本主义系统的核心利益。我认为当权者未能充分认识到气候变化对弱势群体的严重影响，以及富裕阶层在应对气候变化方面的责任。我认为气候变化的影响将首先波及弱势群体，而这使得当权者更容易忽视这个问题。我认为新冠疫情再次证明了阶级和种族歧视在危机时期是如何加剧不平等的。我认为种族主义在危机时期总是以某种形式出现，并被用来解释和转移危机责任。我认为战争和危机是两个不同的概念，尽管两者之间存在关联，但不能将战争简单地视为危机的组成部分。我认为经济危机可能导致战争，而战争也可能被用作转移国内矛盾的手段。我认为仅仅关注经验事实或抽象理论都是片面的，应该将两者结合起来进行分析。我认为危机是一种控制机制，它会削弱人们进行革命的能力。我认为危机往往会导致人们采取更加温和的政治立场。我认为乐观主义不应建立在危机本身之上，而应建立在人类的反抗能力和潜力之上。我认为在危机来临之前制定好应对计划，比在危机发生后仓促应对更为有效。我认为学者应该专注于对世界的描述和分析，而不是直接提出具体的政策建议。我认为这本书适合不同层次的读者，既可以作为对经济和生态危机的入门介绍，也可以作为更深入的学术探讨。 Stuti Roy: 作为主持人，我没有提出任何核心论点。我的角色是引导访谈，并就Ståle Holgersen的观点进行提问。

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In *Against the Crisis: Economy and Ecology in a Burning World *)(Verso, 2024), Ståle Holgersen develops a conceptualization of 'crisis' that moves beyond simplistic understandings of societal turbulence or even disaster, arguing that crises have come to mean something very specific. Where previous analyses have treated economic and ecological crises as separate phenomena, Holgersen reveals their profound interconnection within capitalism's contradictions. Central to the book is the idea that both economic and climate crises are crises of capitalism specifically, and the powers that be are not willing to acknowledge it.

 Holgersen delves into today’s economic and ecological crises to demonstrate that they are not exceptions to an otherwise functioning system but integral to its operation. It is naive to see these upheavals as opportunities for reform or revolution. They are the bedrock of the status quo. Fortunately, the vicious circle sustaining capitalism is not founded on an iron law. Our historical mission in the face of the climate crisis is to create a historical exception to the rule. It is time for ecosocialism against crisis.

About the Author: 

Ståle Holgersen is a Senior Lecturer in Human Geography at Stockholm University, Sweden. He is a member of two research collectives: the Zetkin Collective (ecosocialist group working on political ecologies of the far right) published White Skin, Black Fuel on Verso in 2021 and Fundament (a housing research collective) published Kris i Bostadsfrågan on Daidalos in 2023. This is his first monograph in English.

About the Host: 

Stuti Roy has recently graduated with an MPhil in Modern South Asian Studies from the University of Oxford. She has a BA in Political Science from the University of Toronto.

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