Revolutionize Your Retirement with Dr. Dorian Mintzer
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I'm west mos. The prevAiling thought in amErica is that you'll never have enough money and it's almost impossible to retire early. Actually, I think the opposite is true.

For more than twenty years, i've been researching, studying and advising american families, including those who started late on how to retire sooner and happier. So my mission with retire sooner podcasts to help a million people retire earlier while enjoying the adventure along the way. I love free to be one of them.

Let's get started.

Doctor doran minster, hello.

hello, nice to bigger. Well, thank you for inviting me.

So where are you Operating .

from massachusets brakin mass, which is right next to boston?

Brookline mass, okay. And if you ever been to atlanta.

I have or just .

to the airport, almost everybody's .

back to the airport. But i've actually been to atlanta, I think twice, not for a long time though.

Well, there's a whole lot I wanted to get to. And I found you. I don't know where. Ultimately, I read something in, thought what I would be so perfect for retire soon or podcast, the your psychologist, your coach, retirement coach, and you help couples and and individuals really think about those bonus, what you call your bonus ears, which I love. And I think maybe if we could just start out by saying what what's the biggest problem that you see that, that somebody is kind of working through when IT comes to this transition? Maybe it's less work or no work, and tell us who you help typically and what usually is their problem before you can help fix IT .

my work with individuals and couples. And so there are both similar issues with individuals and couples because we've all got to kind of think about IT for ourselves. And generally people are thinking about what's next.

You know, how do I want to spend the rest of my life? I know there's all this stuff about we're living longer and how do I want to do IT? And can I afford to retire? Do I want to retire if i'm in a relationship? How is that going to impact my family?

You know, is my spouse partner interested in retiring all those kind of questions. And so one of the biggest chAllenges, I think, and the way I try to begin, when I start to help individuals and couples to think about the role work has played for you, and I could be work being full time at home or could be work outside of the home. But generally, if we think about that work gives you a recent ticket out the bed in the morning, IT gives you a sense of connection, engagement, purpose, meaning, often, time, self, a steam sense of community.

So these are all great things. But people still in america, people still don't love work mostly, right?

Well, some do some dot, and that's sort of what's been different that some people want to work, but maybe not as much or not in the same way. So what I often say to people, when they begin to think about what's next, is how are you gonna build into your life a reason to get out of bed in the morning? How will you build some structure? Doesn't even have to be like a work structure.

But how are you build connection, engagement and some purpose, meaning into your life? I think that's a key chAllenge for people without thinking some about that. I mean, there can be absolutely a honeymoon at the beginning. You know, if you're just, as you say, really tired of working .

burned out.

burned out, right? There can be a honeymoon of not wanting to do anything. But I I must say what I often see because sometimes i'll see people at the beginning stage thinking about how do I want to retire and sometimes people come in later having been retired, really feeling I did not go on the way I want and um some thing is missing and often it's that connection, engagement and purpose meaning.

So that's the problem. People will come to you when retirement is is just kind of false flat on what they thought that might be in their expectations, where that this could be great and they go through a honeymoon phase, but then they're deep into this next phase and it's just not what they thought IT would be.

So do people come to you more for the psychological side of this? Or do they come to you for the financial side of this? Or is IT mostly both when they're seeking help from doctor story? Well.

so one clarification is sometimes people come even before they're retired, and they may be just thinking about IT and some come after they are retired. I'm not a financial planner, however, i've done a lot of work with women in money, couples and money, so I can help people think about the questions to talk about with a financial planner. And I truly believe no matter how much or how little money have, it's very helpful and important if you can find a good financial planner that has what's called a holistic orientation, which means not just investing, but, you know, money isn't just a number, it's a two, you know.

And so needing to have somebody help you think about, how do you want your money to work for you? What will IT mean if you're not bringing money in or not bringing as much money in? Um and so part of IT is the financial my work tends to be in the north other than helping people with the questions to ask and to help them think about their money personality and if they're in a couple where there might be conflicts about money, there are a lot of none financial aspects of retirement. Some are psychological summer, social summer, environmental.

well, i'd love to hear some of those or maybe some examples of families that you've worked, whether the individuals or couples where they were kind of struggling for whatever reason. And that sounds like a lot of the reason goes into that. The category words, they are lacking some sort of engagement, lacking some sort of purpose, lacking one of those core components that you talk about. And then i'd love to hear to how did you help them turn that around? And what if they discovered .

a lot of times that starts with taking time to think about what do they want know? Where are they at this sort of stage of life and what is IT that they want? And again, IT would be similar issues, but a little bit different if it's people really thinking about the timing of retirement versus people who have already retired. Um sometimes it's really helping couples learn how to communicate. And what I often say to people, although I wrote, rode a book called the couples retirement puzzle, ten must have conversations for an amazing new life together.

Although I was written for couples, it's really helpful for anybody, because we have to kind of puzzle IT out and question things for ourselves and talk with whoever on the journey with us that might be a friend, that might be siblings, might be a partner, but to really think about how do I want to live this next stage of life. And so often times it's the beginning phases, expLoring and discovering, but also learning how to communicate. It's amazing how we just don't always know how to talk with somebody that we love or somebody that's important in our life, because there are some difficult conversations.

So what are some of the things though that people again, i've been in the financial planning world for twenty five some years, and I do focus a lot on the lifestyle side of this. So one of my books is what the happiest tirely knows. I'm very, very involved in that research.

And I really believe that finial planning has to overlap with lifestyle planning and how those who work together to to have a fufu ling happy retirement IT. But I do what I guess is a little less clear because it's different for everybody, is what pulls somebody out of that doldrum a of the transition. So some folks, I think about my father in law, who was he is an engineer, and he kind of really worked his tail off for so many years.

And then when he was done, he was so happy about being done, and there was no alarm clock for the first time. He used to be on call and have to go into the plant and things. This is like, well, he's in the sixties and having to get up in the middle night.

And when he was done, he basically went into this honeymoon phase and never left IT. He's never been bothered by not having the purpose of work, the engagement of work. He's got other core pursuits.

When I think that those are critical, one of them sAiling. So we'll spend the whole summer on a boat and sAiling. So he's got a lot to do.

Maybe that's why his honeymoon face kind of never ended. But what's a little harder to identify from person to person a person is what? What's the catalyst that got them out of the dollar?

Um so was IT in this is kind of just in york experience? Is IT some sort of new core pursuit? Is IT some sort of group? Is IT church? Is IT? Or is IT just all the above that IT can be unique for pretty much everybody?

IT can be any of those things. What's interesting is that some people retire because they just wanted get out of whatever they were doing, and they do have interests that maybe they didn't have time for before. And they have hobby, or as you say, church.

They have kids or grandchildren or nieces and nephews. Any of those things could be purpose. I'm not talking purpose for the big p. Can he purpose with just A A little tiny p, yeah. And you know and IT can be really gratifying and a lot of fun to just finally have time to let you say your fathering lobby is sailor, or want to learn or pick up something you ve had to put away because there were so many responsiblities E S. During the earlier years working, maybe raising a family that he didn't have time and you know suddenly there's this time, which is very exciting um but I can be daunting for some people and that sort of the interesting thing I often ask people to think about how have they handled other transitions .

in their life .

o because all transitions have an end kind of a period of unknown and then a new beginning. Some people have trouble with like the ending, some with the not knowing, some with a new beginning. Some don't have trouble with the law.

You know, once they make a decision, they're just, they're gone. But but I find IT helpful because people can then think about, and if you're in a couple, what the part that harder for you may not be as hard for your partner. So knowing that can help you kind of anticipate what's this transition gonna be like.

is so you kind of help digging. So you're saying, okay, let's go back in over the course your life and think of some of the things that have a that maybe life follow you would like to do, but you just really haven't done them for a long time. You haven't focused on doing these five things. Are you could kind of helping pull that out of somebody and dig back to see what would reignite you in this new phase?

That could be part of IT. The other could be where some people say, you know, work is just been my whole identity, and, you know, I don't know who I am or what I can do. I don't have any hobby, I don't have interest. So then IT may be expLoring who are people that you admire. They are doing things that you find interesting.

You know what are movies that you like to see and what do people in the movie is 非常 say you know people um just trying IT is trying to help people think about what might like that fire in the belly you know what might interest knowing that？ Lifelong learning is so important um and we you know some people say long life learning or life you know lifelong learning, but it's keeping your mind active and and you know knowing that you know you're not just being put out to past year and it's not all downhill. I mean, eighteen used to be thought of, as you know, after sixty at all downhill. I mean nowadays people are living into the eighty nineties, hundreds. It's only downhill if you wanted to be downhill or let .

IT be downhill in a new in a child born today in the note states has what's the chance of them living to a hundred.

fifty, fifty chance. So it's a toss up the likely you know back in my my parents generation, the exception was that people lived into their eighties or nineties. Now it's more the expectation um and there is actually been used since you up on the study's tobaco levy out of yale talks about an attitude about aging. A positive attitude about aging can give you seven and a half more years of life.

That's right that there was another question was going to asked. But as we kind of talk this through on this trying to find this next phase purpose, let's say you've done some work and you I guess I was an e book for you, but I was the second half place of when IT comes to career, right? And I think about Nancy column.

I don't know if you know get Nancy, you wrote second act careers. So what are some of the things you've seen our people do next that might be maybe you wouldn't have thought that would end up happening and they wouldn't have thought that ever ended up happening. But a year after stopping work, next thing you know that doing what so many different .

things is just it's absolutely amazing. Um I can think of people who ended up sort of having an interest in play A B N B and deciding, you know, I want to do that and might do IT with a spouse. The spouse is interesting. I've seen people do that taking up interest in wine, you know, and actually can think of a couple, one person in particular, who you know ended up becoming a while. So me I can't .

pronounce IT right so .

me yeah but um somebody who had been a CEO in the corporate world always had his interest in map and he began up to be a and physics teacher in a high school love IT. Um so you know there are many different things, some involved work and some people like still the doing and also liked up, maybe because of their own circumstances, earn some extra money. But but the money is not the driver often.

You know some people also become entrepreneurs. You know the over fifty eight group is the fastest growing age group. People starting businesses you know on their own as solo premiers or you maybe even having an idea of legacy, including family making IT into a family business, buying a franchise .

you have you ve seen some folks to franchise.

yeah, I have one in particular. And there are people who specialized in helping people expLoring and do that. There are so many options. Now that's what's kind of exciting if people can you know, again, it's how one deals with from transition.

But if you can get into the excitement of the potential of things that can be there, and part of what what I have found helpful is, as I said before, some people are just retiring from awesome times. It's helpful to think what you would want to retire too. You know, do you have some idea of what you'd like to have time for that might be travel. I mean, the pandemic made that difficult for people because, you know, people had to put they have kind of squash travel for a while. People are getting back to traveling if you've .

ever done a gene fun, a workout, or if you remember as a kid, rocky running the steps and if Michael kitten is still mr. Mom to you, I guess what? It's officially time to do some retirement planning.

It's west boss worth those. The good old days. Well, with a little bit of retirement planning, there are plenty of good days ahead. Schedule appointment with our team today and your wealth dot com. That's while you are your wealth dot com.

You were apparent later in life and i'm in the middle of this with four kids and I still a fair, a pretty long way to go years wise, and before all of them were out of the house. But I do have my social group. Everybody had kids at a slightly different period of time, and some of them are now empty nesters.

Now theyve got, they have three kids. Now all of them were collegian accept, maybe one, or maybe the last one. Just what the college, that is a very big deal and a very big transition.

So this parenting, I want to just hear your story about why your journey as this later in life parenting. And then what parenting gives us is when the responsibility there, I guess, timely SE diminishes. That's like stopping work. That's a huge deal, right?

IT is often, you know your community's changing you're not needed in the same way and IT IT can be a lot of parallel issues of some loss and grief you know the ending of something um trying to figure out what what did I not have time for before that I might want to to do maybe what ways I want to get back? You know what are other communities that I can be part of? You know what friendships do I want to continue to have? What are some that you know are just gonna go by this natural attraction mean that's often an issue that um when retiring from work and I send IT more with men and women of this worry that you know my friendship network is all around work activities and you know often when you're not working anymore, sometimes people can work hard and keep up friendships but IT is needing to develop some new communities, new ways of connecting with people so I think there are so many parallels between empty nesting and and thinking about .

what's harder. By the way, you is a psychologist, what is harder for people to work through empty nesting? Last kid goes off to college or stopping a work, a job they've done for twenty five years?

It's hard to answer IT in terms of which is harder, like a yes, real, this one or that one. IT truly does depend on the person and IT depends on what other parts of your identity you've allowed yourself to have and develop. So if your whole identity is as a mother .

or a father.

or if your whole identity is as the financial person or work, it's gonna be harder for you.

Yeah, you have talked a little bit about how men can maybe have a tougher time and maybe have higher levels of depression. Is that almost all because of the potentially a little bit more even more of a focus and identity with with work and career?

Often times, it's still even though, you know parenting has become much more a partnership and equal. Um I think most people do realize that more ends up falling on a woman or there may be a woman taking more time off from work you know during early years or maybe working part time so that um IT can impact your identity of who you are and you know if your main identity is your professional or whatever, now we don't even mean professional but is your work identity um and parenting is part of the identity but maybe less as important then IT can be terrifying.

I mean, I can remember doing workshops where, you know, i'll be there maybe with couples and i'll have a table of men and table women talking and I can just remember a number mean, i'm terrified. I am terrified of not working, not having that role, you know, not having that self a steam um because I don't have any other interact. I've just not given myself time to develop any interest.

How long does IT take? Men, let's say they're in a deeper hole. Then women lets to say, hypothetically, ally, how long is IT take people to turn that .

around again, that depends on the person. Mean, I hate to keep bringing IT back to that, but IT really is such a variable. You know, there are some people because maybe of how they've dealt with transitions in the past, you know, they're just freed up and they begin to, you know maybe after the honeymoon.

Just think about what I want to do. Um there is a dark side of retirement though. People can go down a slippery slope. And if you're feeling to isolated, if you feel like you don't matter anymore, if you feel like you're not needed, and this can happen to men and women in this, yeah and we can happen to women, particularly if so much of your identity has been the mom.

Or if you see a correlation with levels of it's call IT financial security, is that does that heighten that fear?

Oh, no question. I mean, there have been studies saying we we need beyond a certain amount of money. We do really need a whole up. And money does not bring happiness.

Put IT that way beyond a certain point.

right? But beyond a certain point. But there's no question that financial struggles, you know, and many people are reaching the stage of life, not in good time. I mean, you know Better than me of not having good financial portfolios.

Maybe there has been you know cost of education for children or for themselves or you know relatives that have need help burn you know home costs, you know unexpected illness nesses is all kinds of things like that. And income and security um is is very big. I mean, it's frightening and I think often women are it's stereotype. But many women are more worried about the financial security because they may not have been in the workforce as long, you know, if they actually took off time before. And you know, we do have great voices on the other .

end of that spectrum. Now i'd love to hear your perspective on a couple that kind of went the other way where things got maybe even Better because of through some of you, again, you've written a book about this, the conversations that we should be having with our spouses that could lead to really a blossoming, right? I mean, because you've got this long period time where you're work and work and working a job coupled with working as a parent, and that is a just a tremendous amount time.

And the very often people sacrifice almost everything for that. And then all of a sudden the pendulum swings the other way and and you've got time and you look at each other that that's a little scary too. But what's the upside of that? Have you seen couples kind of that phase is even Better than before?

Absolutely many people talk about the, you know, that real upside of finally having time again to appreciate each other. And you know, there is something that comes with age of a wisdom. And not everybody develops a wisdom, but we've gone through up and downs usually.

And people develop a perspective. And many people talk about the mallowe e, you know, that comes and sort of the gratefulness and the appreciation. And you can just make relationships much racier of just appreciate each other time together.

And again, this is where you're question about finances coming. If there's some money and mean if couples like to travel and do things or if there maybe children or grandchildren you wanted spend time, i've seen blast so much blast to mean. And I think IT is important for your listeners to think about that.

And i've seen new marriages and new you know new relationships. We live in this changing demographic. There's you know the long term relationships. There's partnerships, there's um people who choose you know not to get married, even keep their own places um but you know have this rich life of companionship.

Yeah there's a lot less social pressure now to be the traditional route, right? There's less. I think the world is just more open to count to your point.

I mean, non marriage marriage component ship versus maybe twenty, thirty, forty years ago. So we were going back to of this now. Now we're getting positive here. So it's like can be blooming and think you studied positive psychology too.

right?

And what can you give a change? Somebody that kind of a IT doesn't really think that way. Is that just an a neat way of thinking? Or or can people get Better at that? I I would contend it's hard to get somebody Better at that if you already not a positive thinker.

Change is hard even if you want to change. But I have seen that there can be a little behavioral changes um of just opening to some new ideas are different ways of things.

Give me example. You like scrooge mcduck of a sudden as a client now of a sudden he wants to give money away.

That well, I mean that could be something like that or I could be um deciding what what you know there's so much going on in the world, you know what causes important and somebody who might be feeling really depressed and isolated some suggestions about thinking about being involved in a political cause or around climate or around whatever IT is you think about sometimes there can be a change of feeling like I matter and I think IT comes down to often a sense that I matter.

I can make a difference um i'm not obsolete anymore. I mean, I do think that uh, people it's it's not easy because not everyone wants to learn to change. But I think people can learn empathy. I think people can learn emotional intelligence. Um when I say connection, engagement in purpose, meeting that's from you know positive psychology, well being kind of the you know the three you know sort .

of stands great is well being is to the financial foundation then IT is relationships, health and and spirituality. Is that the is that kind of accommodation.

connection, purpose, meaning, meaningful relationships, a sense of agency, a sense, you know, you have some contribution to make. And spirituality.

have V, C, people become more religious.

more spiritual and more religious? I've seen both. Yeah.

I have. And what is that? Is that just take dona church. I mean, what there maybe somebody used not to go another deal?

No, i'm not. So I am different ating IT from religion. That's necessarily an institution based, church based or temple based or something for some people, yes, because faith based programs provide community. And so some people may you know, particularly as you're dealing with kind of end of life issues, some people do turn to more formal religion. Other people, what I find is it's been outside in nature sort of feeling like i'm part of something bigger than myself, you know and feeling like you know i'm connected to you know the plants in the flowers and I mean I I know may seem like the soft stuff, but it's really important to to feel like um we're part of something bigger. You know when you go out look at the stars at night.

the all of nature and IT is pretty incredible. And that seems like a pretty practical type of a step where you get somebody who's that maybe not been in, not spend a whole lifetime in nature, right? Somebody and you corporate job, we're going to the city.

You're always in town. And all of a side, wait a minute. I can't like the woods, right. I have been to the woods for a long time. As we kind of wrap up here today.

What if i'm thinking about a couple that is there are sixty and they're really eying both stopping to work in a similar time, and the kids are obviously out of the house at that point? What is your favorite? Must have conversation between those two humans as they go into this next phase. You call their bonus years.

right? Well, there are number of them, but I think the most important is talking about expectations, expectations of each other, expectations that are about time together and time apart. They might be expectations of, you know, where for both home, you know, we gna change some of who does what at home, expectations about how what our responsibility lii E S.

And obligations are, you know, for family members or not family members. So I think expectations are key. I mean, I think it's inevitable in relationships. We can love somebody, but we disappoint each other the more you can talk and listen.

I'm good at that the .

talking and listening.

No disappointing .

the dia point. Well.

we all do IT. I'm good to disappointing .

when I mean.

it's it's never because and this is I think it's just good advice during friendly couple, right? It's kind of like I know you wanted me to take the kids at school or I didn't know you. I was supposed to do this.

I would, i've done IT if I would have known, but I thought that I was doing these other things. Those those counts of ea, yeah. So I like, I love that as it's a nice reminder, expectations are really key.

They are and it's interested. The person who wrote the forward to the book that echo author said he thought that should be given to newlyweds. Not that newlyweds are thinking .

about retiring.

but communication expectations, assumptions, I always say assumptions get us into hot water. You know, just like you were saying you, well, I thought I did all this 的 那个 what's kind .

of your favorite thing that you're working on now you did a ted talk back of what how many years ago .

was eight years ago now？ Yeah, I can't believe us. I'd love to do another one.

So you did a ted talk that's a pretty big miles. What are you most excited about now that you're doing?

Well, i'm doing a number of things that I love doing. So this is now my thirteen, the year of I have a monthly um I call IT revolutionized your retirement interviews with expert series and I started in in may of two thousand and twelve. I had been to so many conferences and met so many fabulous people and decided that I wanted to make these people available to people who might not get to listen to them.

So it's been free during all these years, and you signed up the week before. And I love IT because IT gets me reading all new books that come out and interviewing really interesting people. And then my assistant, my virtual assistant, helped me when I was celebrating my tenth year anniversary. All of the interviews have been rereleased as podcast, so people can listen to know some of the ones from to two thousand twelve.

What's your favourite one of all those? If you are, if somebody goes in fines, which should they listen to.

I have a number of if .

you could only pick one here on the retire solar podcast.

alright. One that I think is so important that people say really is helpful around retirement is Vicky swag zweig called the inner work of age shifting from role to soul.

I think that one .

is really excEllent. And it's not an all or none of retirement vers doing VS being, but to be reflective and thinking about IT. But can I could .

I add one more, of course.

the other that I think is really helpful and not just about retirement, but it's Bruce filer. It's called life is in the transition mastery changed any age. I think it's a really helpful book to think about um we can't change past events but to really think about you know how we deal with change and how we transition through IT. I think it's been a really nice contribution with their whole bunch. I would recommend your listeners go to my yeah.

where do we find IT? What's your hub of .

information? So revolutionized retirement dot com. And you can learn about my programs, what my ted talk sign up for upcoming interviews have access to some resources. I have a giveaway of a lot of resources focusing on the ten must have conversations um and to you know there's also all the different media things in podcast that i've done as well as, as I said, the revolutionized retirement radio, which is where the podcast aren't. People can listen .

as busy as ever, as busy as you've ever been. Thank you so much for being here. This very fun to meet you.

Lovely me. I love to questions. Thank you.

Hey, all this is male with a retire sener team. Please be sure to write and subscribe to this podcast and share with a friend if you have any questions. You can find us at west mos 点 com。 That's W E S M O S S 点 com。 You can also follow us on instagram and youtube.

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