The Coldest Case In Laramie - Episode 5
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Unlike a whole new world of travel with the capital one venture x card, what's in your wallet terms apply large access is subject to change seek capital one outcome for details just a heads up. The following episode has brief mentions of suicide. Please take care when listening. If you're having suicide thoughts or need someone to talk to, please call the national suicide in crisis live line by darling ninety eight, previously on the coldest case in leamy.

And I know that you and your friends on side of very tight, you a very select group of people, you don't think so well. Then us White folks think that you are OK.

I just knew that they weren't looking in the right direction and they did have a .

fricking clue who did that because if there's sitting, they're doing all of this to us. They didn't know what they were doing.

They are no idea what kind of party where we have in there. We are just dancing around of that. I do believe that they were playing quarters when I first got there.

What what's quarters? no. Was Shelly promises and did you like sex? I guys, we're looking for a mode, right, said that was a crying scene.

He he saw half of a learning police stand up to the dorms. They had football programs in her hand. Look at her guys. They were just making a forever. We were.

I knew jake White men before he confessed to killing Shelly. Back when I was fifteen years old. His rocker was next to mining, learning high.

I remember him as a being pull of a kid who sometimes is button, is polo shirts up to the top button, quiet, gentle, smart, a great basketball. Yer, he was so trusted, so well thought of that. He had been picked by classmates as a peer counsellor, a keeper of weather secrets.

He was also black, one of the few kids in school by learning standards. He had a famous father, author john edr widman taught thy university. He is best known for writing a member about his brother who had been convicted of murder. All of us had watched jake that had talk about that on sixty minutes. But honestly, the thing that stuck with me most about jake was how we used to stuff his on even lunches into his locker IT smell up the entire hallway.

I remember telling the principal on him in the summer of one thousand nine hundred eighty six, the year after Shelley was murdered, jacket, something horrific that landed him in jail, and flag staff here as owner, that August, during a traveling summer camp trip for teenagers, he woke up in the middle of the night, grabbed a hunting knife. He had bought a souvenir shop in elista national park and stopped sleeping, romi eric cane twice in the chest. Jack then fled.

After a nationwide manhunt. Jack eventually turned himself in and confest. He said the murder was neither premeditated nor provoked. He only explained the stabbing as a quote, results of a build up of a lot of different emotions. In other words, jack articulate no motive, no reason, which made the murder particularly chilling. Jack had been in jail for a year awaiting trial in arizona for killing eric when he asked to talk to the same local detective at first. Confess to this is .

going to be a place to review with take while on taking place with the current jail that is eight, twenty eight, seven times twenty two everyone hours saying, I just received word runner to matted you want of the talks about the world and very one week is as good take us to speak to the detective .

because he wanted to confess to killing a second person. Shelly, Willy jack story was that he had been in in a fair with Shelly. Yes, he said he was about to reveal this to her boyfriend.

Alen scared about how that would play out. Jack said he went to her apartment when he got there. He got into an argument with Shelly, and then he stabbed her three times. He said he then left and walk home, leaving a decoy knife at the scene, throwing the real murder .

weapon into a dur. For the matter.

jack city knew what the detective was referring to, fire that was set in Shelley's apartment. That part, he said, wasn't him.

挨着 南 赛 的 发。

j. Guy, almost everything is confession wrong. He mentioned a fireplace that wasn't in chelates apartment. He said the violence took place entirely inside. Throughout this first interview, IT seemed like jack didn't even really know where Shelley lived. The whole thing, the decoy knife, the affair when he was a gokey fifteen year old with a significantly older Shelly IT, just didn't really add up. IT seemed to trouble the detective and flag staff too, enough that he asked him why he was telling him this, whether he would ever admit to a crime he didn't commit.

Would you have any objection to take into the detective in Larry while knowing that has investigating this case and have more facts? And because I have know the high range to telephone all you talk you you want to do that there right now.

And we .

just give me a ten thousand work too. Well, ready? H.

take them talk to attending gary polls, who was still in charge of the investigation in leery.

my name is very far. And listening with warming free private OK, how are you tonight? OK, well.

I jack repeated a stories of attended polls with the same inaccuracies, the same hard to believe details in polls. Voice, I could hear skepticism of jake story. O polls told jake that he needed to do more, investigating to figure out whether jake was telling the truth and whether charges would be filed. But that didn't happen hours after polls heard jax paper and story. Polls charge jake with .

shell's murder.

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Take wide man's confession .

in one nine hundred eighty seven did actually go anywhere. He never got as far as entering a plea. Evidence contradicted his confession, but the charges against him hung on the books for more than three years.

During that whole time, the file basically stalled out. Nobody did much work on the Shelly Willy case. I had heard the outlines of all of this before.

I knew about jaks confession and that nothing ever happened with the charges. Otherwise IT IT always bugged me. So I reached out to jake.

This call will be recorded and subject to monitoring at any time. Thank you for using icc solutions.

Thirty five years on, he is Julian and arizona prison for killing his former roommate, eric cane.

You may begin speaking now.

Hi, how are you? So I want to just start by, you know taking you back um to where you were at the time. Know where you were in there. Me um did did you know Shelly at all or did you know of her?

I didn't know. I just have heard rumors when when the crime occurred was the first time I actually remember hearing your name and people in the high school are talking about the case and talking about the fact that he has been killed and that was my first uh, encounter with with her name. I mean this to be quite on scheme is really, really difficult and painful thing to look back on and to get back in touch with. And you know I was trying to do that this morning and anticipation of our call um just going to to put myself back in that time and I was still dealing with a mental illness in the neuroses article disorder that I had sometimes was a kid um the of course, the crime that I committed in in arizona had exacerbated everything.

But there was also a shame and let a guilt both from knowing what I have done that I taken the life of very cae and also um from things that had happened many, many years before and by that time in one nine hundred eighty seven, a little over year after i'd been jailed, I think I had attempted suicide I know I had attended multiple times and I was just overwhelming these self destructive and I was looking for a way hot to to take my life and at that time after the first couple of suicide tempts they had put me in a cell in the jail which was right down in the booking in area and was had a great big window where they could easily look on me so I was almost like a permanent kind of suicide watch so I knew that there was no way I get to get away with actually myself and. And so I thought about, and you know how what I could do and I remembered the show, why we crime I figure the, uh, to that point that they probably hadn't found the suspect yet because they they didn't find one in the immediate aftermath. And so I I figured the fact I had committed scrim arizona would make me a critical suspect.

And I figured confessing to this crime and why, I mean, would be the the Cherry on out of the cake that would almost guarantee that I would get the defined either and why you mean, or in arizona, if I was then guilty of to murders, and that was gonna my way out. So IT was essentially a, uh, suicide attempt by proxy. And so I had convinced myself that this was the only way there was this weird nervousness that I wouldn't be believed.

And so I was I, you know, I when I was thinking about what story to tell, I just I kind of try to make IT as detail as possible. And as I could sense that may be somethings wrong just by kind of a skeptical ton of voice on the part of detective poll, I get more and more anxious and more and more desperate to kind of convince him no no this was me. This was me um and just feeling like feeling deflated, which which may sound like a strange thing to feel at that time but like thinking to myself this isn't working.

You know he's not believing me. Um he's trying to believe me. He needs a suspect. I think part of him wanted this to be true because they they needed to to close the case but that I just there was just not the credibility there that that he needed to believe me. And afterwards, after the interview and i'm back myself, thinking about IT and reflecting on that， I literally you know started to cry and um I saw into this kind of temporary black hole or I thought how i'm going to how i'm going to escape myself.

And so he leaves, and you think I have failed.

right?

When do you find out that he's actually, you know, bought what you're selling?

Um not until I know I know I was my attorneys who told me that I had actually been charged and I was like, okay, whatever he may not have believed, he believed me enough to tell me.

I mean, I was immediately excited and I had every intention of as soon as they took me up to what I mean for arrayment um I was going to break guilty right then in there and not even not even allow any space for you know a longer investigation which may uncover the fact that I didn't do IT or you know any kind of a trial or any kind of evidentiary hearing. I was going na forstall that by immediately creating beauty that that of course never happened that never got taken to I I never got a rain but um that was my intention. I feel awful about what I put all his family through and.

I never took the time where the opportunity to apologize to them, and for a while I was told not to by my lawyers and my family for legal reasons, but have, that's not an excuse. I felt that different times and desire to reach out to them, I apologize, and I never did. And I was purely selfish. And I just I feel terrible about about what I put them through, both for those three plus years, but also in the year since, by not giving them at least the quarter of having a letter for me, an apology and explaining why I did what I did.

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over a year of conversations, jake widemann told me a lot about his eggs in alien nation in high school, about his guilt were killing eric cae. Court records told me more assorted psychologist and psychiatry. Rist had diagnosed jack with a variety of conditions, schizo type personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, a typical conduct disorder and eventually temporal lobes.

In drome, there is no consensus. Regardless, jake was found competent to stand trial as an adult. The murder of erick e. After initially wanting to die, jack decided to live to avoid the death penalty.

He agreed to a plea deal of life in prison with the possibility of parole after twenty five years but as jake became eligible for parole, Shelley's murder and the doubt around IT hang over his hearings, even though the state of biome ing said jake was no longer a viable suspect in Shelleys murder and dropped the charges, the case had never been solved. So therefore maybe he did do IT. That was the institution anyway.

In twenty sixteen, jake had his seventh parole hearing. He was released on house arrest with an ankle brace. let.

One of the conditions for his released was meeting with a specific psychologist. Although jack traded emails and like voice male messages for the therapy, the two didn't meet. So nine months after being released, jake was arrested for fAiling to make that appointment.

He's been back in prison. Ever sense Jacobs had a lot of time to process what he's done, and the effect has had another people. He was forthcoming about IT in our conversations, even when I could tell IT was hard for him. But in all of our talks, there was one place jack just wouldn't go.

The only thing I really don't want to talk about, and and you know that I would hope you avoid asking me about what is the whole Angela S T. Y.

the whole Angelo situation when jake made is false confessional in one thousand and eighty seven, he wasn't just simple icon himself. Jack initial strategy was claiming responsibility for killing Shelly, while professing ignorance about who set the fire afterward. That didn't work for the tenant.

Polls pulls wanted the name. So after some padding, jack gave a one. Angelo Garcia. Jack said that Angela was responsible for the fire, a coin spirit, or in Shelley murder.

The one thing jake would tell me about this is that he didn't know Angelo. He just heard his name around town is a bad kid. Poll's knew Angelo well for a lot of the same reasons.

Angelo was interviewed by the police before. In the first week of the investigation, he was a usual suspect in town and hung around with Larry montez. He was actually at that party, the one where Larry toler friend edis car and disappeared.

In that first recorded interview, Angelo had malabo. He sounded CoOperative, talking about how Larry had gone missing for two years later. Within hours of jake's confession, and with no other evidence, polls brought Angelo in again.

What I desire to do, Angelo was questioning in regard to the homicide of Shelly Willy. And before I ask you any questions, this is a chinny matter. I'm going to advise you stick tional rates on again.

Who in the clock is shakeup? I was hoping that you can help us with that little up. I don't know.

J, i'm fine to pace up. Okay, keep cool in over. good.

All right, you get on for, tell me too, and to do, and the rest of time. Last man, okay, alright, okay. Angela, you coin will.

Shelly, well, I really need to check. You never know, besides besides the goring, her sister, what you like? I like that or her sister.

But, but, but 呢？ This first much is jack up when, but jack is is always know what the talented jack widman was resonant of warming is what we call mila was kind of a path like black kid that, uh, curler is zona right now. He says, you touch the place, Angela, you were within.

So I wasn't true, but I would be saying that he says he knows I talked to him at midnight this morning. An interview demand to an hf hours and he says you were within. Did you even go the shakers? You know what shake is used to be?

Yeah, well, the building is still there, but it's about the public school. Jack wide man told me that you picked him up there that night at a past ten thirty P M. Seeing in the fluids mean that the you made a race with him at the park and about eleventh in that day to do that, to pick him up seeds that can craze.

I don't know what is still coming with information, Angela, that's exactly what he told me. I think, you know, you realized that I be enough from with you. I'm telling you exactly what the information is that we know that I did your information .

and trying .

straight my ship here in china. Now we are trying to thank you. You are just trying to to get to the fact.

okay. And right now we're got information that this person tells that you involved in the murder in the fire that kills shalit. That's a capital offence.

You don't realize that this is duck penalty offence that is exactly right now. They have an executed anyway in the state of an for many years, but there's people on death role awaiting execution. What happens .

on like say.

somebody is innocents, they put him away for so many years, they come back out and get cancer. And what I have information pertained to, I don't put person in jail. I have a duty to do that, you know, to protect you as well as anybody out says, do you know who kill shelling? why? I sure don't find you that time.

Well, I said, I think we've had lots of sources coming and tell us that you're responsible for killing shi. Why is there any truth to that? It's completely false by, I did not touch the check.

I didn't even know the check. Why should you check? Oh, I may be crazy, but i'm not saying there 哦， so really gonna make me going saying this, what can you help us out about?

Why would this jack away and be telling you us, telling me specifically that you set that house on fire? I will answer. So finding, I finding why is just trying to set me up. I found time, but I don't know why. Okay, alternate dinner you at four or five pm.

After the tenant polls and interrogated him, Angela was actually briefly charged with arsan and murder. I didn't know Angelo Garcia back when I lived in there me, but I knew of him. He was a few years old than me, but I dropped out of school in junior high.

Angela was known mostly for smoking weed, getting in fights, throwing parties and date Younger girls. He had a hair trigger temper in a long running beef with law enforcement. One example, after police brought him into jail in a minor violation. A few months before this interview, Angelo had slammed his head against the wall, breaking the sheet rock rather than get him help. Authorities charged with a crime destroyed property.

Can we give you some bad coffee, some water, water, okay? Angela met me at a basement arb N. B.

army. He was short and wiry with a Green flat top and a go tea. He dressed casual genes in a black switcher with White prayer, hands on IT.

He seemed guarded at first, but opened to talking. I introduced him to my dog, Lucy SHE was clearly excited to see him going up. Yeah, she's a sweet from the police files.

I know Angelo had nothing to do with Shelley's murder. He was alive, ed, from the very start, but he was arrested anyway. His name splashed all over the front page of the local paper in a case where there had been three arrests made in thirty seven years.

Angels stood out out to me as the most arbitrary, the most avoidable. And so what is this like? You're like being accused of this thing that you like, have no idea what they're talking about. What is this like for you?

I mean, that first minutes and slight whatever I go down, you know, you you need a problem, you know, know started telling me all of this stuff that we're gonna give the death penalty this and then you started saying, wow, I mean, I didn't do this. You know, I never had done to do with that. I wasn't there. Nothing, you know. So do you .

remember .

where .

were we were drinking, playing quarters? And I was little drunk and I fell asleep and they woke me up. I said, Larry, so this car we need go look for.

So we went driving around looking for Larry, can find them anywhere. Get back to the house that were parting out. And there was hidden monk's car.

Why was hiding? I don't know. Because, you know, he bat the car back.

Why he had changed cloth, I don't know. Why didn't have any best? I don't know. So that always made me think. What's going but I don't know so he had something .

to do with.

I don't know, you know, would be like me accusing him like they did me. But I always start that I don't know. I I looked for answers. I can not find any while. I let the smart test for outside hand be, you know, he was always my friend, but I know if I can keep somebody, because I know I hurt that. That was you, you know.

Do you ever remember even reading jake, what? Five men?

I don't even, I know you can make a moon music. I know the scared in insight. So I know, you know, I his brother wasn't my grade.

No, I knew him and play best, bob. I only remember what was so. Don't know, kid.

why do you think he would have named you like this?

I have no idea.

Have a did he .

even do?

IT?

No.

no. I mean, like he's been very much ruled out and himself has said that, like he was lying and he just was saying this because he wanted to die, you know, because he had already been arrested on this murder charge in arizona, because he had killed a kid down there. He definitely did that and that, like he just sort of made this decision to confess to this case.

And you know, I can't seem to get an answer out of him because i'm talking to him about like, why did you figure this guy? What he said was that he just had heard your name around as being like a bad kid. You know.

you know, I was a good fighter back in the day. You know, know that this way we grew up on the other side, everybody who always wants to see who was a bad and whatever. And so I was a good fighter. So what what do you wan 0， you know.

do you remember when you ve found out about the guy being arrested like five years ago?

Oh my, my, my a curse reader SHE send me a message on my phone SHE goes a look at learning life. okay? What is talking about? So they got there, and, you know they have them, whatever, you know. okay. So I start crime was so much acting because IT was I was happy day my life.

我操， 麻烦 you want， you know what I was one the room, you know what the wrong? And this and this made me so happy. Exactly finny card. Somebody, you know, I call my mom a right away. They cut, they cut mom.

农会 爱。

Think SHE believed .

that he never talked you .

never talked to her about that. SHE knows her upset needs to give .

you some comfort. That's good. Now very many people know how you are.

在家。

Two days after Angela was charged with murder in person, jake talked a lutte polls again. After learning about the charges against Angelo, jack told polls that Angelo wasn't involved. IT took another couple of days for the charges against intial to be dropped.

He spent a whole time in jail for a few years after Angelo had a rough go of IT. He piled up more criminal charges, never quite got his feet on the ground to work a day jobs and construction or restaurants mostly. But eventually he got his life together, got married, had a kids, found god.

After the church were .

eventually dropped against jake, the investigation into who killed Shelly wiley was back at square one. By this point, polls was leaving the case behind him. He had just been elected sheriff.

Pull for polls was his campaign slogan. The case passed to another detective in one thousand nine hundred and ninety one. I started reading through everything that the new detective did.

next. I can see that he pursuaded various theories over the next dozen or so years. He looked at jake again.

He looked particularly hard at a long hall trucker who'd confess to seventy rapes and then a man who had killed in rape to coworkers. Roomy in town, about three hundred miles from leery. No theory panned out.

Looking through the case file, IT seemed like the new detective wasn't dedicating much time to the case. He wasn't doing fresh interviews. He didn't appear to be revisiting what the police may have missed.

The investigations started to resemble more of a training exercise than an open case. A couple of boxes of files handed over to a succession of new detectives with a shrug. sure. Give IT a spin, everyone else has IT took almost thirty years for another arrest to be made in the case, for another new detective to take a closer look at the file and see something the others hadn't almost thirty years to arrive back at the crime scene and reconsider the question. What about fred lam?