#27. The Worst Seat In The House
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What's up, everyone? Welcome back to The Honest Drink. I'm Justin. You can always reach us at thehonestdrink at gmail.com. And if you've been enjoying this podcast, go ahead, rate, comment, and subscribe. Now, today, Howie, Eric, and I, we get together for the first time since the new year. And in light of that, we decide to reflect on the personal progress we made last year and contrast that with the new self-improvements we aim to see this year.

We talk about the utility of keeping personal journals, the pitfalls of self-assessment, the lies we tell ourselves, and when you should be careful giving and receiving feedback from others. We drank some good whiskey on this one. So without further ado, it's the Honest Drink Podcast, episode 27. Here we go.

You know, out of all the whiskey labelings, bottle labels, I like their design. Like, it really speaks to me.

Because it looks vintage, you know? Yeah. It looks classy. It looks almost more like a wine bottle. Doesn't it? A little bit, yes. Yes, it does. So this is a Glenn Farkless 21. We're going to the 21. Pretty good pour. Pour it out. To start the year. Thank you. Here you go. All right, cheers, guys. Cheers. To 2020. Happy New Year, guys. 2020.

Wow. Wow. That is really good. Ain't that some shit? It's got the sweet tint on it. Like, I know I say this about every whiskey we have on this show. I'm always like, mmm, good. You know what I mean? But this is really good. This is really good. Yeah. I was telling you before, I haven't had this whiskey before. And I had it for the first time two days ago, or three days ago, the 16th.

And I remember sipping it and being like, hey, this is really nice. This is nicer by like threefold. Really? Yeah. That nice? Yeah, this is really nice. I guess I'm spoiling myself in terms of like I'm not really comparing it to the younger ages. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of wonderful. You kind of just raised the bar. I just jumped to 21. Yeah. You're feeding a habit that will...

It may spiral out of control. Inevitably spiral down in a downward spiral. So 2020, what's on the agenda for you guys in terms of this coming year? Any type of changes, goals, or new habits, anything like that that you've established for yourself? I was thinking we could...

Maybe go back to last year and kind of... Recap last year? Just recap a little bit, you know? Like what did we learn? What were some of the things that we might have taken action on from our conversations? And it'd be a good starting point to then, you know, move into the new year. Okay. All right. You want to kick it off? Oh, did I just set myself up? Yes, you did. Yes, you did. Okay. Well, I'm glad I'm prepared. Yeah. Okay.

I feel like the last couple of years, I've been trying to move forward, make progress, different elements of my life, but it was probably fragmented. You do a little bit of here, you do a little bit here. Maybe you try to get a little bit more fit, eat a little bit more healthy, be a little bit more mindful. And so...

I think the last couple of years I was maybe trying to approach or attack some of these pieces individually with varying levels of success. And 2019 was a good year in terms of at least putting everything down on paper and then kind of having a clear structure of what I can start working on in a more focused way, more concentrated way. Have you been writing things down?

When you say put down on paper, you literally mean putting down on paper, right? Yeah. I mean, so if you look at, like, and what I do is I keep, like, versions of it. So, like, you can see some of the really early versions from, like, five years ago. It looks like, you know, like an elementary school kid, you know, setting goals. Like, I want to be able to write in cursive. Yeah.

I want to be a cowboy. Yeah, like I want to grow up and, you know, like make money. So I have like older versions and I would set sort of like goals and like some of them are quite, I can, I might have shown you guys one and I use like a big check mark or a big X, like a big red X if I didn't do it and a big green check mark and there would be like three items or two items and it was like all red X's. Yeah.

One thing that I'm proud of, and we've talked about this in previous shows, one of the themes of the show is just to make sure that we're all physically healthy. I mean, if you really want to make an impact on things, you've got to start with your body and your mind. And I think that's something that I did quite a bit this past year. So I sort of started tracking...

my, uh, my running, um, and the earliest record I have, cause like, you know, we have Nike run app and you have the Apple watch and, you know, different things, right? So pretty much people who are doing, you know, exercise these days are tracking this with some kind of app. So the earliest record I have was from 2012 when I was in Beijing still at the time. And I remember running,

And my runs were like, you know, half a mile, a mile. And I did six runs in 2012 for the whole year. So the whole year you ran a block at a time. I mean, literally it was a block because it's funny you mentioned that because of course Beijing is gridded and it's set up in blocks more than Shanghai, which is much more curvy, you know?

And I was on a block and I literally would just run around the block because it was just so mentally agonizing for me to even exert myself in that way. So it was six runs in 2012 and I almost doubled that in 2013 to 11 runs. Okay. Now fast forward last year,

231 runs. Wow. Throughout the year. So that was, you know, sort of a breakthrough. So you went from 11 to 231 runs? In six years. Wow.

I'm looking over Eric's shoulder right now, and it's been incremental. I mean, obviously from 2012 to 2016, even 2017, it's like really incremental. When it's incremental, I mean by like 10. But then all of a sudden he jumps last year, 2018, and then 2019. So I think you're on a path, man. I think you're on a good path. Well, let me ask you this. Do you think you would have made...

that same progress if you didn't keep it on paper, put it all down on paper, keep a personal journal? Or was it already in your head you were gonna do this and you did it? Or was it more that since you had to offload those thoughts and your results on paper and keep yourself accountable, you almost had a physical thing to go back to and remind yourself and be like, okay, well, I have to do it. It's like setting goals.

setting something on paper, putting it down on paper. Was that kind of a big driving force? I like putting things down on paper and I think it definitely was a factor. Using apps to track your own performance and then seeing that progress also helps. So it's kind of like a little bit of gamification. But definitely for me, I like to track it a little bit more. Do you think you would have made the same progress if you didn't track it? Like roughly the same progress? I don't think that...

I think I had like a system in place. So the system was sort of like... It's a combination of things. It's like tracking things, having the right shoes, seeing a physiotherapist. So...

I don't know if you can detach this one piece because I made the commitment and I really wanted to do it and get better. I put everything together. So it would be kind of odd if I did all the other things that I didn't track it. I just would feel like it was missing. So it's, it's, it's not like cause and effect, but if I had done all this stuff, this wouldn't have been one of the steps involved. If you take someone like Joseph, for instance, he did, of course, he's much more accomplished athlete than,

But, you know, like he saw the physio, you know, he does running regularly, but I don't think he tracks as religiously. Like he just goes out and does it.

So some people are, they need that, they need to see the visual progress. And like for someone like him, he's been working out for, I mean, decades. Yeah, it depends on the person. But I'm hearing you now and you're actually inspiring me to start tracking as well. Because this year, one of the things I'm going to be doing is getting back on track with working out. And I just started running again. I mean...

It's tough because I haven't ran in a while. Well, starting in the winter, of course, is really hard. Yeah, but if you can do it in the winter, you can... Yeah, I don't care about temperature. I mean, I still do the cold showers, so... Yeah, you can't care about temperature because there's always an excuse because in the winter, it's too cold. In the summer, it's too hot. You know, there's always an excuse not to do it, right? Yeah. But I think tracking is going to be good because you have a visual, like...

You have something visual to keep you going, right? You can always, whenever you feel lazy or whatever, you can always look back and just look at all the things that you've accumulated, all the times you've accumulated. Yeah. So I think that's good. I think that's a good thing. I mean, for me, it would definitely help me. I don't know if it would help you, Justin. I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question. I really don't know if it would help me kind of like putting down paper. It wouldn't hurt. Like, I don't think it would ever hurt. But how much would it actually help? I would have to try it because I'm not the type of person...

to be as organized as Eric is. I'm not that organized of a person. I kind of just go by my internal motivation to do things. And when I, like we've spoken about this in other episodes, like kind of that retarded focus that you say I have. So when I get motivated to do something, like I don't need an app, I don't need to write it down, I don't need nothing. I'll do it. And I'll just like, just be 100% like focused on doing it.

But then it doesn't come around all that often, right? When I find something I really want to do. You know, for me, if I look back on 2019, I think the biggest change for me in that year was I think how you set your goals are for this year, which is kind of like that health and fitness aspect. I spent pretty much a large part, significant part of 2019 spending

really honed in on creating a system for myself to just around fitness and working out and losing weight. And obviously, as you know, boxing had a huge part to do with it. I mean, that was really kind of the thing that I found that I could latch onto. And I lost around 60 pounds in 2019.

It's huge. Yeah, I think that's pretty. Hold on, let's pause for a moment. We should drink to that. 60 pounds. You were a fat fuck before that, though. You're looking good, though, man. Looking good. Well, I've been yo-yoing throughout the last few decades. I started off as a thin kid. I was always a thin kid. I was very athletic. I was on all the sports teams, all that stuff in high school, middle school.

And then when I got out to LA, I was immersed in this whole other world of just a lot of debauchery, a lot of party, partying. And then I got into, I was part of a band, as you know, and those were some of the funnest times of my life, just kind of like playing, performing, and then just hang out and having fun.

And then after that, I went into culinary school. And then culinary school really fucked me up. That really fucked me up. Because then everything, like I had an excuse just to like eat and try everything. And I really ballooned in weight during that time. And then ever since I got back, came to Shanghai, I've been kind of like, you know, I had a period of time before this where I dropped a lot of weight and then kind of ballooned back up, dropped a lot of weight.

So that's been a pattern in my life. But I've never had a system. I never build these habits like you almost talk about. And last year I did. So for this year, I want to continue that for sure. I haven't reached my goals in terms of fitness and weight loss, but I'm going to continue that. But I think my biggest focus this year will be more on kind of

finding a vision forward finding a path forward for myself uh in terms of like career in terms of something that um some sort of accomplishment outside of you know weight loss and fitness and all that you know like an accomplishment i can really sink my teeth into and um go to work for you know yeah that's great that's really great and i you know i think um

the, it's the systems piece that you talked about. Use the word system. Yeah. And the system allows you to like anything that's worth doing takes time and it takes repetition. So if you don't have a system in place, you can't really ensure that consistency and taking things down on paper is one way to build a system, but it's not the only way. I'm sure you had your way of tracking things and I'm actually not a very organized person. Um,

in many areas of my life. So the tracking piece doesn't necessarily come naturally, but then once I was able to start tracking things and then that,

made everything a little bit more visual and then I could keep track of it. Really? That's crazy. You say that because you seem like so anally obsessed about like organization. Because I'm, because I'm, it's like all like internally, it's all chaos. Like my brain, everything. It's like, I'm always distracted and everything is chaotic. So I've had to, it's like this, this obsessiveness of like getting rid of the chaos and,

Whereas it's weird, right? It's like normal, maybe a normal person doesn't have to go to this level of detail to organize their life. But if I don't, I'll forget everything and like everything will be, I don't know what's going on and it'll be a mess. And so like for a long time, a lot of the, a lot of parts of my life might have been a little bit more messy and not as organized. And so that's,

Doing these notes has helped me get to the point where I can start keeping track of things and then organizing myself a little bit more. That's pretty amazing, though, because that's something that I've always wanted to be able to do. And I just I'm too lazy. I'm a lazy motherfucker. So, yeah, when I see I see your notes, when you're when you open notes, you're

It's just ridiculous. But you'll notice that it only goes back so far. It's not like it goes back to when I was five. It only goes back so far and then that's it. But that just goes to show it's never too late to start. No. Right? Of course not. You just start it. It's never too late to overcompensate. Cheers to that. That's a good one. Well, if you think about it... Which is not necessarily a bad thing to overcompensate sometimes. Well, think about it. Like...

I think a lot of, if you were to study like some of the top performers in certain areas, it's like they had to overcompensate. Like Joe Rogan says, like he had this fear of being a total loser. You know, people who are great at public speaking were like terrible at public speaking and then worked at it. It's almost like if you're given the talent to do something, you might take it for granted. Yeah.

And a continuous improvement over a period of like 10 or 20 years will outdo any natural talent. - Yeah, and that's what I meant. I meant it in a positive way, overcompensation. - Yeah, overcompensation, that's great. - And you're right, if you look at every great person, whether they're an athlete or businessman, they've all overcompensated in some respect to be as great as they are. You know what I mean? It takes that kind of insane work effort

And drive, which is overcompensating. Not to sound like an asshole, but I'm going to say it anyway. Eric, five years ago, when you were not like this, you were a very different person. Maybe even farther back than five years ago. You were a very different person. And Eric then and Eric now, I would choose now. The way you are now, the way you've improved both socially as well as professionally. Yeah.

You make him sound like such a retard. I know, like some remedial. Like socially, you can engage with people now. And listeners, forgive us our use of our poor choice of offensive words. How is that offensive? But you make me seem very remedial as a person. No, not at all. The word retard is like a tab, like a no-no now on the list. You can't use retard. That's why I didn't call you a retard, because you weren't.

But I was remedial. That's what my old boss used to say. He used to wear remedial a lot with me. I'd rather be called retarded than remedial, to be honest. Personally. I know. That's a personal choice. Like remedial is kind of like you had an option, but you just fucked it up. Whereas the other one is like, okay, you were born that way. But yeah, I don't mean it in a bad way at all, Eric. Like honestly, not a bad way at all.

I'm just saying that I'm just very impressed and happy that you... I feel like this is that episode about strength. We don't need to praise each other so much. It shouldn't be sort of a love fest. But one thing that you said earlier I just wanted to highlight. When I...

towards the beginning of last year, one of the books that I read was Can't Hurt Me by David Goggins. And we talked a little bit about, like, I mean, talk about overcompensation. And he introduced this concept called the cookie jar. And

The cookie jar is anytime you do something where you kind of push your boundaries a little bit and you're proud of yourself, then you write it down and you put it in your cookie jar. And so like when the next time comes up and you don't feel like running or, you know, there's, there's a day that you really need to get out there, but you just don't want to do it. You can go back to your cookie jar and you can say, you know what? Like a month ago it was cold and raining and I went out there and I did it. And you, and you look at your cookie jar and my cookie jar was like empty when

when I was reading that book and I actually created a cookie jar starting February of last year. One of the things that we did at work was we had a fitness month and that was like a breakthrough for me. So I ran like almost a hundred miles that month. And then that was the first thing I put in my cookie jar. There were 35 items that I then put in. Most of them are fitness related. You could do it with the rest of your life because it might be like work related. Can you read us some of the things in your cookie jar? Uh,

Well, I don't want to toot my own horn. Toot it. Toot away, man. No, I mean, the general themes were that I did some recording of my 5K times. So I really like the 5K distance because everyone, to your point, Howie, everyone's lazy. I'm super duper lazy and that's always been a problem. But what is laziness? Laziness is just that you haven't found a system yet.

So, I started that 5K distance for the first time because I think you need to get out there like 20, 30 minutes to really get a good workout. Well, like, not to cut you off, but it's a long enough distance where you can get a good workout in, but it's a short enough distance where you can routinely do it. Right, right. It's not like insane, you know what I mean? Totally. Where you can like, oh, I can do a 5K today. It's not like this crazy.

huge hurdle you had to get well said right and it's incremental right it's like the minimum viable effort that like you know they like greg mccown would say so it's like we talked about in previous episodes just do the minimum that you can do like consistency consistently so there are a couple of like 5k times that i put in here um we did some really crazy workouts as we talked about in previous episodes to train for the spartan so every time i do like a massive you know

like five hour workout. I kind of put it in there. Um, and there's some other things in there, right? Mostly fitness related, but over time you kind of accumulate, accumulate it, you know, you know, and you don't want to fall in love with this. I don't look at this like, you know, like you don't want to get complacent, be like, Oh, I put enough cookies in, so I'm good. Exactly. You just want it. Like you just want to put a cookie in occasionally, you know, look at it, but I don't look at it every day. You know, you don't want to like get all narcissistic and shit like that. Right.

Well, can you share something on that list that's not fitness related? I'd be curious. I see one over here. June 15th. I put on my own clothes. That's good for you, dude. No, I started this list. June 28th. I did not masturbate today.

I don't know if that'd be true or not. But I have made improvements in that category. We'll talk about that another time. It's mostly fitness for me because I was inspired by David Goggin. So like most of the items are fitness related. I think maybe it's a good reminder to, you know, maybe do it for other categories. Yeah. Yeah.

- Yeah, I think to diversify, because you said it's very heavily fitness related, should branch out into other things. That's what I'm trying to do, right? Like I said, in 2019,

I feel like my biggest personal changes and improvements were all kind of fitness related. But not too much on any other metric in terms of other fields and other aspects of my life, areas of my life. So that's like what I want to focus on in 2020. Well, and it makes sense like the fitness is like your cookie jar because, you know, we've always said,

That you've got to start with yourself. Like, if you're not physically fit, if you're not sleeping well, you don't have good nutrition, you don't have energy, you can't really do anything. That's a great point. You really, really, really can't do anything. So fitness is the start. And the thing is, fitness is also the biggest challenge for most people. If you look at most people on the street, they're not, like, walking with, you know, like, that confidence, swagger, you know, like...

really physically elite people are a rarity. It's a struggle for everyone. And so if you wanna start anywhere, it's like your physical and your mental health. - That's such a, wow. That's such a great point you bring up because it's so true. Like on many levels, right? Like fitness, number one, like you say, the body is the temple. Everything starts from how you're feeling physically and mentally. And obviously as we know, the mental is always attached to the physical, right?

So you got to take care of your own self first, your own temple first before you can go out and try to achieve great things. You need to have a great foundation and a great home base to do it from, right? Healthy one. So that's very true. And I think everyone can agree with that.

And like you say, it's one that everyone, that most people have an issue with. But I feel it's the one that most people, like I don't think it's a coincidence that your cookie jar happens to be filled with mostly fitness things. And my 2019, my cookie jar also happens to be filled mostly fitness related things. I think it's also because it's really, if you think about it, it's the easiest thing to get to start with. Well, it's black, it's more,

- More action oriented in a way. - It is, but that's what makes it so easy. Because there's nothing physically in your way of getting, going out and starting a workout. Anyone can do it. You don't need to have connections. You don't need to be a genius. You don't need to have money. You don't need any of these things, right?

You can do it. Anyone can do it. So I don't think it's a coincidence that our cookies, most of our cookies are fitness related because it really is the easiest thing to do. But we just make it, people just make it seem like it's not that easy. I will point out one thing for everyone is that I, and as should all of us, the three of us, be super grateful that we're still, you know, we're healthy, right?

And we haven't had any, I guess, significant issues really to this point, generally speaking. So for all the listeners who are capable, like maybe you're not working out or you're struggling a little bit, but maybe there's nothing really holding you back, it's more mental, then just really appreciate that and be grateful. And then for anyone who's listening that maybe had some issue or

with their health or whatever, you know, then we hope that, um, then you seek the right, uh,

resources to kind of take care of that. But I mean, it is easy to take for granted like that. I can go out and run, run a 5k. And so there's a lot of things you have to do to kind of take care of yourself. One of the things of course that I mentioned before is that, um, I, I have been seeing, uh, physiotherapy just to make sure that I'm not getting injured. Right. So you kind of take a holistic approach, but I mean, it is easy to take it for granted that you can even do these things.

And imagine like you have like physical issues or some kind of maladies where you can't actually go out and exercise and it becomes like a vicious cycle. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's, that's so like for everyone that's healthy enough to exercise, like get off your fucking ass and do something because there are people who can't and it's, it's torturous on a very, on a very minor scale. Uh,

If you guys remember, for the past couple of months, my right arm has been numb and I've been struggling with that. You have that nerve issue, right? Yeah, I've had a nerve issue for the past three, four months. And only recently I finally found a doctor that kind of helped me. It's a chiropractor, a Chinese chiropractor.

Not the breaking, like the cracking bones type, but he would basically like use this machine to like knock my spine alignment correct as opposed to cracking it.

And yeah. And then basically he just looked at the, I did an MRI, I did CT, I did x-ray, I did everything. And basically, yeah, all regular doctors, you know, there's nothing they can do. So basically he, I've been going to him for the past couple of times and he's been aligning my spine and now my right arm is less numb, like by far. So, I mean, in general, it's pretty okay. Okay.

It still gets numb once in a while, but definitely not like it used to be. And that's why I was able to start running again. I actually wanted to run like a while ago, right? And get back into fitness and get back into working out. But I literally couldn't because of that right arm. Because the minute I start running, the right arm just goes numb. You know, the minute I start doing any workout, my right arm goes numb. So I can't work out on that.

Now, on a very minor scale, like, that prevented me from working out. But now that I'm better... So now, like, do you still feel any numbness? A little bit. A little bit. But I can run. I can run on it, you know? Yeah. And it's much better. Now I'm working on my lower back. It's important. It's really important. So...

And incidentally, I went to a so, you know, at work, we have a gym and we have classes. And sometimes, you know, you see people like working out and stuff like that. So I went to one. Joseph actually recommended me to go to this kind of, I don't know, mobility, strength, conditioning, you know, and like sometimes you see the classes and it's like a bunch of beginners.

And then you have this sort of a little bit of a, you know, cockiness or, you know, and you're kind of like, oh, like, you know, this bunch of beginners, like I, you know, who are, you know, I'm, I'm a Spartan and all this stuff. So anyways, I went, um, and in the beginning of the class, it was just like basic movements, literally just like basic movements, like using different resistance bands. And I was like, this is pretty like remedial. Of course, my form, my form, yeah, but the reality is like my form is,

and uh my balance are all awful and you know the the workout got progressively more difficult and by the end you're kind of you're you know you're sweating a little bit right um and then at the end of the class like i go to the instructor you know he like he's like ripped right i mean he's you can tell like he's he's he's a an athlete and i'm like yeah how's it going you know like kind of all cocky and then he's like yeah i noticed that um

I was about to tell him, yeah, I do Spartan. I've been running. Kind of brag a little bit. He's like, yeah, I noticed you got some major issues. He's like, I'm like, what? He's like, yeah, first of all, your knees, your balance. You're bow-legged. He's like, have you ever worked out before, Eric? Yeah, exactly. He's like, yeah, your knees. I've noticed that they kind of...

fold inward sometimes in some of the exercises that's really dangerous for your knees i'm like oh you really i ran 500 miles last year just completely like responding and like like deflated your yeah like irrelevant things and he's like yeah your posture i'm like oh yeah yeah like he's like you got to really watch yourself you know he's like i'm a remedial beginners class he's like i'm so proud that you finally made a decision to start working out is this your first day is this your first like during the workout we're doing push-ups and i'm like

the way he instructed some of the other, 'cause there's some girls in the class, like beginners. So he's like, basically lie down, put your hands to your side, and they're kind of modified pushups, right? And I was like, why are we doing modified pushups? I'm like, I can do real pushups. And I'm like all showing off and stuff like that. - That was all right. Yeah, it's good. Adjust that. - So anyways.

But the point of the conversation wasn't to belittle myself, but it was more like, you know, having like guided instruction is really important. And, you know,

you know, having people who can kind of walk you through some of the, you know, the right behaviors. Well, you need to see yourself from outside yourself, right? Because there's this, there's this key and peel skit, right? Where they're talking and he's like, I have the worst view in the house. You know, he's talking about himself. Like you can, you have the worst view of yourself, right? Your own perspective is the absolute worst seat in the house when it comes to looking at your own form, what you're doing, your posture, your technique and all these things.

That's why you should always have someone else who is credible look at you and advise you and suggest things and watch for all these things, no matter what you're doing. Or if you don't have somebody, record yourself and watch video of yourself, right? That's why for any sport...

whether it's your golf swing, whether it's your boxing technique, whether it's whatever, all these athletes are always reviewing video of themselves. And that's because they need to see what they're doing because you think you're doing it one way, but in reality, you're like, oh, wow, I'm not at all doing it that way. You know what I mean? And that's the only way you're gonna improve on these things. I saw a clip of myself in one of the episodes because you guys were sending some stuff around and I'm like, even my podcast form looks awful.

Like I finally got used to, I think we've all gotten used to our voices. Yeah. But then the visuals like a whole nother like 2020. I gotta just get used to looking at my. That's a whole nother frontier. I know. No, but that's the thing. Like our own projected images of ourselves are always partially a lie. You know, they're always partially a lie. And I think that transcends into a lot of aspects of our life in terms of how we think of ourselves, our ego, our,

and all the way obviously down to the physical, like we say. But to the mental and your own kind of emotional or psychological view or image of yourself is filled with untruths. - Yeah, for sure. - And for the physical part, it's easy to catch these things 'cause all you need to do is watch a video of yourself and be like, "Ah, okay, I'm not doing that right. "I'm not doing this right."

But we don't really have an equivalent of that for the non-physical things, the mental things. So like how do you really hold a mirror up to yourself for the mental things? You know what I mean? And this is an issue I think that a lot of people run into and a lot of people have bigger issues with it obviously than other people. And you have mental health and all these things, all these issues, but...

But it's because we don't really have that mirror. You know, I don't think a psychiatrist is nearly as reliable and as your own eyes watching a video of your own technique and your own posture as we do with the physical things, right? Because you're relying on someone else's interpretation of that to you. And you can't really see it for yourself. You can't really make your own decisions and judgment and critiques, which is crucial, right?

But I don't know what the solution to that is. But I think that's a... I think, you know, like now that we bring it up, like we have the physical form of it. You can watch yourself. But we don't have that on the mental aspects of things. That's basically what I'm trying to say. Yeah. That's a great point. You... Well, I think a couple of things, right? So going back to your point on, you know, we have the worst seat in that. Like imagine like you're watching yourself perform. So your life...

You're on stage your whole life. You're on a stage. And we obviously all want to perform at the best level. And we want to be the best representative of ourselves. But we have that worst seat, so we can't really see. And I totally agree with that. And then the problem is, one of the problems is that

we sometimes are overcritical and very, very judgmental of ourselves, right? Like if you're a normal person, you're going to beat yourself up about a lot of things. And so you're going to view yourself in the worst, most like you're way worse than like any critic of any newspaper, you know, any magazine, any food critic, like you are like,

destroying yourself you're just shitting all over your performance some people are we might be but then there are a lot of people out there that aren't that are filled with delusions of grandeur you know what I mean they swing the opposite way for sure but even those that swing the opposite way there are certain elements that they beat themselves up so I think and I you know I can't

say for sure I'm not a scientist or a psychologist but it seems to me that most normal people beat themselves up about something or another okay now I agree at the same time and so I was also going to say that on the flip side we probably over exaggerate our capabilities so when you average everything out it might be like something somewhat close as long if you're not a sociopath or a psychopath but

But the problem is that different aspects of your personality, you tend to exaggerate your strengths or underestimate your strengths or exaggerate your weaknesses. So that's a really, really big problem. And I think the sports video analogy is a really spot on one. So how do we do that in terms of the other aspects of our life? So one of the things is, well, we have this show called

to hold each other a little bit accountable and to give each other feedback. Right. I mean, like that's part of the reason we want to have this show is that three friends that want the best for each other,

can talk about these things and we've known each other for a long time. And like, if we get out of line on something or there's opportunities, even having this conversation today helps us kind of get that feedback in a way. Right. And then we're having this kind of virtual dialogue with our, you know, with our listeners and just this broader community of people. I think the other thing is that we're really scared. I like the mirror analogy. We're really scared about what we will see.

Right. Like we're scared if we put a mirror up to ourselves, like that we'll see something or some monster in there. But the reality is that like, we're not monsters. Like we should really accept ourselves. I think like, it's kind of like the mindfulness stuff. It's like, be kind to yourself, treat yourself as if you were like a friend, like, would you treat a friend that harshly? So sometimes we treat ourselves really, really, really badly. Right. So,

And then just being able to get regular feedback. So like being proactive and going to people that you work with. So the people that maybe no one knows you that well, like you said, it's subject to different interpretations, but you can piece together. So essentially you can go to, let's say that there's like your friends, your coworkers, the people you engage with are in different parts of that theater in a stadium. Okay. So everyone has a different vantage point. Everyone's seeing, um,

either the play or the performance, or let's say it's a sporting event. You can see that particular play unfold from a different angle. It's like a referee. And so then you have to like triangulate everything together and then you have to be warm and kind to yourself. Otherwise it's easy to go to the extreme. I think.

Yeah. I mean, you're right. Like I didn't, I didn't mean for it to come across off as like that dramatic in terms of like holding a mirror to yourself and you see a monster. Like I didn't mean to be that dramatic, but you're right. Like we, we go through life thinking of ourselves as the stars in our own movies, right? Your own personal life movie. And we are the hero. We are the protagonist. We're the star, right? Yeah.

But the problem is we never actually get to see that movie. You know what I mean? So we're going in knowing that we're in this movie of our own lives, but we never actually get to see it. So it's like you're kind of blind to how good or bad or the movie really is. You know what I mean?

Yeah. No, that's, I, I love that analogy. It's brilliant because to take it a little further. So the problem is, is that we either view ourselves as like some motherfucking, like the rock person,

And like some hero protagonist and it's unrealistic and then we get delusions of grandeur or we view the fucking like movie as some French drama where everyone dies. And so like the, you know, using that analogy, it's, we kind of have to be a little bit more even keeled and say like, okay, we're in a movie. It's not raining every day in that city.

set, but it's not sunny every day. And we have to be mindful of all of that and be aware and kind of just be in the moment and not like not go into the film saying we're going to film, you know, a tragedy. And I think a lot of times, you know, maybe I'm kind of being putting my own personal bias into it, um, just from things that I've struggled with. But I feel like, uh, my movie has a lot of rainy days sometimes fucking unnecessarily, um,

Like what you're talking about is a narrative of that movie, right? Like you're painting your own narrative. Yeah. But it doesn't have to be that way. And like everything in mindfulness is like, you don't have to see all these fucking clouds. There is a blue sky. There is a blue sky and it's there and it's always there, but you're the one that's making it rain all the time. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. My point was more towards, and you're absolutely right. And I think that's really insightful. My point was more like that. It wasn't about the narrative of the movie, which is very true. What you're saying is,

My point was more about like you don't really get to see how you're actually performing in that movie. Exactly. You know what I mean? Totally. You know, like you know you're in a movie, but you never get to watch yourself in that movie. And you lose perspective. So imagine like you're this character and you're doing shit every day. And then one time you played the movie back and you're like, why is that motherfucker just like doing like ridiculous, repetitive shit every single day? So if you could see the movie yourself, let's say like you had a behavior of unhealthy behavior of eating or let's say like you had an unhealthy behavior of like

you know, watching TV all day. And if you watch the movie, right? Like a time lapse or something like that.

And you would be like, this motherfucker. It would be so clear that this person has the wrong behaviors. But because you're in it every single day, you don't realize it. You don't realize if you're the hero or the villain. You know what I mean? That too. You don't really know. Yeah. You don't know what character you're in. I like that. You think you're the star. You think you're the hero in it. But you're never able to actually sit in the seat of the audience to watch that movie and

to look at it objectively and be like, okay, you know, what role am I playing in the bigger grand scheme of things of this whole movie? Some people like to play the victim. And so when you really watch the movie, you'd be like this, they're playing the victim. They don't even realize it. But so I want to throw it to Howie though, because now we're getting into his realm of being like a director and

like using all these metaphors. Is that why he's been silent? He's like these kids. He is waiting to have. These kids, these motherfuckers. So he's going to end the episode for the next 45 minutes and there's going to be a long speech. Got anything to say? No, I mean, I was just listening to what you guys were saying and I think you both made some great metaphors. Got anything to say?

And I'm actually, what I'm going to say has nothing to do with the whole movie narrative. I think, you know, going back to what you were saying about, you know, you're over-exaggerating your weaknesses or strengths, right? Depending on which spectrum you're on. I think the biggest, for me, the biggest takeaway is I don't care if you're, you know, self-loathing or if you're,

you know, sniffing your own glue. But like... That's good. Those are two very good ones. I don't care which one you are. Like, don't stop and wait for that feedback. You know what I mean? Don't stop and wait for that, you know, like, oh, yes, you do suck. Or, oh, no, you're awesome. You just keep moving forward. Be humble and always improving. Because it doesn't matter if you're bad, if you really are bad, if you stay humble and you keep...

improving, you're going to get better. If you're really, really, really great, it's all good. You're going to have more room to get even better. Just stay humble and keep moving forward. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like who cares? Don't worry about where you are. As long as you have that humble attitude. Yeah. Yeah. Because what I'm trying to get at is, you know, in my field, I, I, I, I meet many people who are creative and, or we could, we, we work in a creative field, right? So it doesn't matter if you, if you're a director, shooter, editor, whatever, but,

You know, you have people that are, you know, that think they're amazing or they think they're really talented and they come in with this confidence and this bravado and whatever. And then, I mean, I can come in and be like... Bravado. When I hear that word bravado, you know what I think of? What do you think of? Allie Lamb. Whatever, man. Sorry. But yeah, but you'll see all this. And then, you know, I mean, I can come in with an opinion being like, yeah, that's amazing. And the next person comes in with...

that's not that good. Right. And at the end of the day, it's just an opinion. Right. So why even wait and, and, and, and see that, you know what I mean? So anyway, what I'm trying to get at is you don't stay stagnant, you know, you always stay humble. Yeah. You know, keep yourself humble. Right. There's always room for improvement. There's always someone better than you.

Well, I agree that you shouldn't wait around for someone to tell you, oh, you're doing good or you're not doing good. But I do believe it's important to self-critique every once in a while to recalibrate your direction on what you need to work on, how you need to work on it. Otherwise, you're really flying blind. Okay, so going back with that. So anytime you catch yourself...

you know, kind of going back to the whole sniffing your own glue, right? Then you stop, right? If I'm, for example, if I shot this commercial, I'm like, hey guys, check this out. This is amazing, right? I would stop myself. First of all, I would never say that because I always think I can do better. You know what I mean? And you're looking at me like I do do that. Do I do that? I'm not even looking. I'm looking at Justin right now. You guys are making these little smirks. I was not making these little smirks.

But anyway, yeah. So I think like, you know, you don't show off, right? It's more like you can share your stuff. You can share your glory or whatever. But, you know. Yeah. Always question how you can do it better. Always question, you know, that maybe it's not so good. Maybe it could be better. Yeah.

I agree. Like you, I mean, you make some good points. One of the points that you made, uh, James clear also makes, it's not so much like the snapshot of where you are, but there's no reason to have like fear and loathing or sniff your own glue because like everything is so dynamic as you're saying, right? People are improving. So, you know, your comment is sort of like, as long as you keep the trajectory, it's really your trend. That's the most important thing. If you think about it, right? Your trend, because if you're trending down, uh,

and you have bad behaviors then quickly people spiral out of control and then like you know when it gets extreme and people get into drugs and it's just like they hit then there's that term rock bottom right and then it's like people who are in a good trend they keep improving and they're challenging themselves and their sense you know they're creating personal bests all the time but it's never like a snapshot because like true progress doesn't happen over a period of like a day or a week it's

Like when people hit rock bottom, it takes a while. And when people excel, it takes a long time. So it's the trajectory that you're talking about. Well, I think to dig one step even deeper than that, it's really what he's talking about, I think, is more in the mindset. Because the mindset will determine your trajectory. Yes. Right? So if you always maintain a humble mindset, you're always going to strive to improve. And if you always strive to improve...

you're gonna improve. You know what I mean? So it's that mindset that determines that trajectory. And without that mindset, you don't have a direction. If you have a terrible mindset about things, then you're gonna stay stagnant or you're gonna decline. But if you have a positive mindset in the sense that, what I mean by positive is that I need to always improve myself and I'm never as good as I think I am.

then you're always gonna strive to improve. And it's that balance, right? That balancing act where you don't let that go too far where you kind of are beating yourself up all the time and just kind of thinking about like you're never good enough. Then you kind of never really wanna do anything. But it's having that balance where you're not good enough, but you're pretty good and you gotta keep moving forward and keep pushing yourself. So what do you say to the guy who,

who comes up to you, Justin and Eric, who's like, I made a decision. I'm going to be this, you know, painter. And this is what I'm dedicating my life to. And then I show you my paintings. And it, and I mean, from a technical aspect, from, from all, from all, all degrees of, of critique, it's bad. It's like, what do you say to that guy? Well, like is, um, is he, is he a close friend?

Is he a close friend? He's alright. I mean, you know him. Are you trying to say that you've picked up painting recently? No. I think if it's a close friend I really care about, I think I would tell him the truth. How I really feel.

Because I don't think I'm helping him by not telling him my vote. And it's still up to him. Because I could be wrong. It's just my opinion. And then he comes back and he's like, you don't know art. You don't even do art. Maybe. Is this a real case? And he might be right. No, I'm just curious. Because I've had people in my life where I'm friends with. And their work is, in my opinion, subpar. And yet they are very confident. Do you tell them that, though? I don't. I don't say it's subpar.

Okay. So you sugarcoat it. I don't sugarcoat it either. It's just like if something's good, it's good. If it's not, it's not. But do you tell them it's not? I won't outright say it's bad, but I'll be like... So you're sugarcoating. If you want to call it sugarcoating. I'm not saying it's good. I'm not going to. Okay. So let me ask this then. So is...

Is the work that they're producing critical to their livelihood? And from a really professional, objective opinion, are they constantly failing and they're not able to make ends meet? What's the impact on their life? In Howie's example, he's saying that this guy is seriously considering art as a career path, right? Yeah.

Okay, I'll give you a perfect example without naming names. A certain person that chose a career path that is artistic, right? And it is a money-making career path, right? And for lack of a better description, maybe their path is not growing as quickly as some other people. You're sugarcoating it now. I'm not sugarcoating it. I'm just being vague. Does this person suck? What are we, baking a cake here? Come on.

I'm just being vague. I'm just saying. This is the problem, right? Is it really impacted? Okay, it's like Eric wants to be a fucking painter, right? And I can't fucking paint worth shit. And then I'm showing you guys canvases that are totally jacked up. And I have no other form of making money. And I'm starving and I'm borrowing money from all my friends. Is that the case? Okay, what if you're not horrible? You're just mediocre. But that's subjective, though. Right? Yeah.

But everything is subjective, right? Like you can think he is like legit, like he is the best. Like you can be so, but that's just your own opinion. And some other person might come around and think that's shit, that's garbage. So everything is subjective. But like the point is not whether is he good or bad because that, like you say, is completely subjective. The point is do you tell them how you personally really feel?

Are you honest with them? Do you choose to be fully honest with them or not? That's the point. And what they do with that information is up to them because you could be wrong or you could be right. Who knows? But are you honest with them in the first place and how you feel regardless of whether you're right or wrong? So that's the real question. Right. So like what you, maybe the way you position is that

You know, you say that you express your feelings. You say that, hey, this is my view of this industry. This is my view of the standards in the industry. And, you know, you share your opinion about things and you state that it's your opinion, but then also your concern. Like you say that this is a very tough industry and I really want you to be successful, but I just want you to, you

you know, kind of understand my viewpoint on this. You know what I'm saying? Like rather than saying like the work is good or bad, you kind of say like what your concern actually is. And so, because what you can be very honest with and objective with is what your feelings are, which is you feel like the standards in this industry and then the output this person is doing, they don't match. So you should probably go consult experts or whatever and get other opinions. Mm-hmm.

You know what I'm saying? Like, what's the action from this? That's a good... The action is like, go find some fucking experts and get multiple opinions. It's like a doctor. If the doctor says that, okay, you're dying, then you're gonna go see five other doctors. Yeah, you're not gonna ask your friends for medical, like, diagnosis. Like, you know what I mean? Like, because...

we're not doctors. We don't know. I mean, how he's kind of in that industry might be sort of a doc, like maybe how he's a doctor, but not a specialist in that particular area. So he's like, look, I'm kind of a doctor in this area. And I think there might be an issue. You should probably go see other doctors, specialists. And if they don't do it, it's fine. And then, you know, kind of to your point, it's like,

If it's an intervention level thing, then you might just have to step in. But how many times do you have to intervene in someone's life? I don't think I've ever intervened in anyone's life, ever. But I think what this topic is good for all the listeners out there, what we're trying to get at is all you people out there, look at your friends, look at the people around you. It's time to be honest with everybody.

you know, sometimes I think it's like, cause you're, cause Justin, you were just saying to me like, well, you're being honest. We'd be honest. Like, I'll be honest with you. Like, yeah, there are times where I've looked at other people's work and my, my sugar coat is not being like, that's bad. That sucks. I might, my goal is not to kill you. You know, my goal is to be at least some sort, sort of like critical, but like, you know, tasteful, you know? So my, my, my way of approaching would be like, that's just not my cup of tea. Like, like,

like in my opinion you know unless it's technically like for example if someone's shooting or editing like shooting something everything's like way like blown out and like not in focus and stuff like that i'd be like yo you need to focus but why is this coming up because like

Like earlier you talked about this don't worry about where you are, worry about where you're going kind of thing. Then you were very like bullish like on humanity and it made me feel really good. And I'm like, oh, it's really easy. Just like have positive thoughts and just keep working at it. And then all of a sudden like you're like, oh, like fucking, you know, there's some people that just fucking suck. They're just turds. Like what is he trying to say? Like what is he trying to say? No, I'm just trying. Look, I'm not saying anything. I'm just trying to get like all spectrum.

You know, just talk both sides. I mean, it's, I mean, I think both, both are positive. Like why, why is it that being a turd is not positive? Well, yeah, but it's positive if, if you, if you're, if you're blind to it and somebody kind of helps you, don't you think? So, okay, let me ask this question. Then do you guys ever have this fear of,

That you're just fooling yourself and that you are that turd? All the time. Yeah, maybe. All the time. Yeah, me too. Like, Eric, if you came to me, like, honestly, as a friend, if you came to me and you're like, you know what, Howie? I'm going to become a professional wrestler. And, you know, because I've been working out for Spartan and I think I can do it.

And I'll be, as a friend, I'd be like, look, I want to support you. I want to be there for you. But like, let's be honest. But it's not that black and white though. That's the problem. It's like, I could come up to you or Justin could say like, hey, I want to start a fitness company. You know what I'm saying? Like there are certain things like that. And it's like, oh, who are we kidding? Like, I want to start a tech company. Right. It's never that. Put your hand down. It's not, it's never that black and white. That's the problem. Yeah.

If it's black and white, no one's going to... Like, it's going to be fucking obvious. I'm like, hey, I want to be a fucking rock guitarist, rock star. Like, you're just like, shut the fuck up. You just slap me in the face. You just slap me in the face. Shut the fuck up. Just punch you in the balls. Yeah, go do your job, right? But it's where, like, people are dreaming about something and want to make a change. Like, you know, a couple of years ago, for you to go back into the film industry and the directing, we could have been like, oh, like, fucking... Your time has passed, right?

You know? And we could have just been like, you're smoking fucking weed. You know what I'm saying? I'm sure you had a lot of self doubt. So I don't know. It's, it's interesting. Like,

We talk about just be positive and keep improving. If it's that fucking simple, why isn't everyone a superhero? How do you deal with self-fucking-doubt? That's emotional and that just comes. You wake up in the morning one day and you're just like, I'm an idiot. I'm an asshole. And self-doubt is fueled by the haters outside of you. You know what I mean? That fuels your own self-doubt. That fuels your own insecurities. Are the people...

who you say, quote unquote, are hating on you, right? And we know that's a term everyone uses. But to the point of this conversation is, how do you differentiate people who are just being truly honest and sharing their opinion

Versus people who are hating on you, right? Like, you know, so you kind of lump everything because when you really like are passionate about something and you're really interested in something and you really believe in yourself in a certain aspect or have high hopes, anything that attacks that or criticizes that or undermines that belief is like you get very defensive about it.

You know what I'm saying? Right. And so you just lump all of them into this category of, oh, they're just hating on me. They don't know. Right? Yeah. So what do you do with that information? Do you let it affect you or not? Because if you don't let it affect you, then you might just be going down the path and it might not be the best path. You might end up going down a path that's kind of like barking up the wrong tree, as they say. I mean, that's what goes back to...

I mean, I don't know if what I'm about to say is nice, but I mean, what's your EQ level, right? Like EQ, IQ, right? I mean, if you're able to really self-assess yourself as well as the people that are, you know, communicating with you and interacting with you. And then once you assess that, then you can make your decision on who to listen to and who not to listen to and what path to go and what path not to go.

Right. It's like, I've said this before, the whole 80, 85 or 15, like 85% of the people don't get it. 15% of the people get it. Remember like the whole, that whole thing. Um, yeah, it's like, yeah. What if, what if you're a part of the 85%? You just don't get it. So like, I mean, this brings up a point, right? So,

We started this episode talking a little bit about some of the progress we made and giving everyone some insight into the trajectory. And then it kind of figures into 2020. How lofty, how big of a change do we want to make in our lives? How do you throw some stuff out there and then get people who want the best for you

to give you an objective view and then filter out all the noise. Cause that's kind of what you're saying as well, Justin, right? Like you don't want to get like, I mean, they're probably people that don't want the best for you. So their opinions, you don't want to over index on them. You don't want to, you know, I think, I think the best way to do that is, um, instead of indexing them to use your term based on the opinions index based on the people. So, um,

Listen to the people who you trust and are close to you and that you know have your best interest at heart, right? And that might be a very small circle of people, right?

But just listen to those people and maybe block out everyone else, no matter what their opinions are, right? And don't cherry pick. Don't just cherry pick, oh, someone outside of that circle says something good about you. I'll listen to that, but I won't listen to it when they criticize me. Just don't listen to any of it, right? And don't cherry pick and just index by people who are close to you.

That they know, because then you know that they're coming from a place of care, that they honestly are being honest with you and that they want the best for you. So no matter what their opinions are, you take them, you know, you take them for face value, you know? So, and then what you do with that information afterwards is completely on you, but you can trust them enough to listen to them at least and take their opinions into account if you want.

to make decisions, but index based on the people, not based on the opinion. Yeah, I like that. So maybe...

Maybe the approach, right? I mean, we're in the beginning of the year and I think we're all... Everyone's sort of been thinking about their New Year's resolutions and things like that, right? And I'm not a huge believer in New Year's resolutions because improving yourself can happen at any time. But New Year's resolution, the tradition of it is kind of nice because at least it gives people a chance to kind of reflect a little bit, right? So that's why we have...

and months and days. Like if everything was like just one continuous... A flat plane. Yeah, like a flat plane of like continuous spectrum of time, it would just... We wouldn't have any checkpoints. And this goes back to the beginning, like tracking things. So you kind of have a sense of like time. Yeah. Okay. So let's say that...

Everyone that's listening, including ourselves, our friends, the audience, we're setting up some goals. We want to get better. You're listening to the show or we're doing the show. We have a common value. We want to get better because life's just too short to just like,

you know, be a turd, right? Like you want to keep getting better. You want to keep pushing because you want to have a reason to do things every day and to wake up every morning. Right. And that drives us. I think that's like evolution. Like if you think about like how humans evolved, you know, we, we had to kind of keep pushing to, to survive. Right. Okay. So let's say we set up some goals. Okay. But, but,

You're not going to be able to accomplish your goals alone. It's impossible. Even like all my fitness stuff, like there's so many people like, you know, that have helped. Without them, you would not have hit any of them. No, because I wouldn't have a reason to do them either. Like why am I being healthy? Why am I trying to be a better person? You know, it's because I want my friends to be able to benefit from that. So that's that intention piece. Well, that's a very you thing. That's a very personal thing.

in terms of where your own personal motivation stems from. Justin's opposite. Right. But generally speaking, right? Like I'm just, I'm not, yeah, okay, so point well taken. Like I don't want to speak for everyone, but there's always that selfish piece, but then you're doing it because of... No, I'm not saying it in a selfish way. Like if anything, you're being the opposite of selfish where you're motivating yourself because of other people.

You know, that's the opposite of being selfish. Right, right. But I think everyone has that component. So I don't want to speak for everyone, but I'm just saying like there's that personal piece. Like if you're not a sociopath, right, and you're not like a total lazy ass, you want to improve yourself and you also want to influence the people around you. Like I just want to speak very generically, right? Like, I mean, I don't think we have, I don't think any of us are currently sociopaths.

while we may have been one in the past. And hopefully, like, not that many, you know, most of our listeners are not sociopaths. And if you are a sociopath, we're going to, you know, like... Well, maybe that's a demographic. They won't know it anyway. Yeah. So then the second part is, like, communicate to the people you trust. I love what you said. Like, index on the people that you know are known good sources. Yes. You know, like, you can, like...

you can find these people and then get their feedback to help not only to like give you a reality check on your goals but actually to help you

set goals together right like his joseph's been really great about that in my life he's like he's such a caring person that he's like hey like let's why don't you do this so he we have like kind of like a shared goal but it's really just for my benefit right so he's a great guy but i think everyone has that positive element in them like no one's totally selfish or you don't like being selfish i don't think is long term is it's going to make you happy right

So we're trying to encourage people to involve other people. So not telling anyone what goals to set, but maybe the process is start thinking of these things. Talk to your friends. Get their input. Help them make you more accountable. But don't set the goals alone because then there's that danger of setting them too low or just like, you know, oh, I want to be Picasso. Yeah.

Sometimes you need to slap on the face. You need to slap on the face. And look, it circles back to kind of what we were talking about on the top of this episode is the whole accountability aspect of things, right? Like people around you help keep you accountable because you want to be accountable to them, not only to yourself. And the goal might involve them. So if my goal is like I want to be kinder,

Because I actually, I feel like if you're kind in a nice, productive way, you actually get a lot of benefits out of it, right? Oh, of course. So, like, helping the accountability piece is also, like, it's reinforcing because, you know, anytime you're not being kind, people can give you that feedback and then there's that loop, that positive loop. You know, that's one thing, you know, that's one surprising thing that I've...

I've come to realize doing this podcast is that it's really the accountability piece. Like, I was in Japan recently and I was up in the mountains. And so I had a lot of time to think and reflect. And one thing that I thought of that I never expected from doing this podcast, you know, one thing that surprised me from doing this podcast is really the accountability piece. And that's when...

That really kind of occurred when we realized people were actually listening to this podcast. You know what I mean? Because when we first started, the three of us, when we first started doing this, we didn't know if anyone was going to listen. We didn't expect anyone to listen. That's for goddamn sure. So we were kind of just like, let's just do it for our own fun and blah, blah, blah, and do it just for the sake of doing it. And then we realized, look, there are people that are actually listening. There are people that are actually listening to what we say, you know, and responding to

So that kind of moment when I realized that, I was like, oh shit, I got to be accountable for what I say. You know, I can't just say anything just to say it anymore. I have to be accountable for what I say. And when you're confronted with that accountability, there's always that moment, that kind of fight or flight moment that people have. Some people shut down when they know that they need to be held accountable for the things that come out of their mouth and they shut down. Or some people lean into it.

And I think the whole aspect of us doing this podcast is kind of really leaning into it. And I think that really translates into self-improvement. If you really want to improve yourself and set new goals and set new habits to achieve those goals,

you have to be accountable to yourself and it helps if you are also accountable to others because that adds that added pressure to actually make those goals happen because it's one thing to let yourself down and i think that's easy because we all let ourselves down daily right but it's another thing to let someone else down that you actually care about right so

I think it all stems back to this kind of true accountability of yourself. If you really want to improve, you can't escape that. 100% agree.

And I did want to give a shout out to kale, um, an ex colleague of mine based in Beijing, like super creative guy. And, um, you know, out of the blue, he saw one of my posts on WeChat and he just texted me and he was like, yeah, you know, I listened to the show. It's really nice to get different perspectives. And, um, he shares some of the same, you know, like the struggles that we have. He's like, yeah, I have some of the same things. It's really good. There's a bigger community, um,

You know, so he said, hey, I have an idea. Right. And Justin, to your point, like what are our listeners thinking? Like it might not even be like, what are they getting out of the show? Because I don't even think we're ready to say that anyone's getting out of anything that we're spewing out. But it's more like the opportunity to just connect and have people that are like honest with each other and want the best for each other. Right. There's a positive energy.

So he said, Hey, like what if people write in and share their thoughts? Um, like, you know, could you read the letter out or, you know, could you talk about some of the things that the listeners are actually talking about? So there could be like a community, um, from that. Right. So, you know, I thought I'd give Carol a shout out that, you know, we heard your feedback. We love it. Um,

I don't think we've done a really great job of giving, building that two way communication, but we just want to, I think this year, um, you know, season two kind of figure out how do we, um, engage our audience a little bit better and really get into their heads. Cause like we spent the first season and people are kind of like are getting into our heads a little bit. I'm sure after, if you've listened to a few episodes, eventually you can distinguish our voices maybe, um,

But how do we tap into all of the collective learnings and experiences of our listeners and then be able to really create a community where we're representing everyone in that spirit? So I think one thing we'd probably love to get this year, like, I mean, we want to, you know, maybe give our listeners a little skin in the game and say, hey, like, look, you know, email us.

Send us texts if you're friends or friends of friends. Tell us what is resonating with you. Tell us what topics you want to hear more about. Tell us what guest...

Tell us where you want this show to go. Be our mirror. Yeah, be our mirror. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, be our mirror. Let us know because we have the worst seat in the house. We got the worst seat in the house in terms of how this podcast is going because on one aspect, we can't be unbiased when we listen to ourselves. It's very hard for us to listen to the podcast completely objectively because we are part of the podcast.

And another aspect is, you know, a part of it might just be we're blowing a lot of smoke up our own asses in the sense that, like, you know, like, we think we're better than we are. Right on. That's right.

We love you guys. I'm Justin. I'm Eric. And I'm Howie. Peace, guys. Love you. Peace. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. Cheers.

Yeah.