How the US lost its own trade war?
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According to Pew Research Center, fewer Americans now have a negative view of China. Welcome to The Bridge, enlightening conversations on world cultures, life, and everything in between. Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. Oh yeah.

Hey everyone, I'm Jason Smith, originally from sunny California, now living in beautiful Beijing. Today with me is Beibei. Hello Jason. So I am actually outside Beijing. I'm in Shanghai and I love it here. Yeah, it's such a safe and clean and quiet place with so many shops.

Like of whatever you can think of. And like coffee houses everywhere, restaurants everywhere. It's such a thrill. I'm a huge fan of cityscapes and skylines. And I got to say, every time I go to Shanghai, I'm surprised at how enormous the city is. It's enormous, but then it's like waterly and it's safe and it's even quiet, you know?

So not like New York. Yes. It's a metropolis, but it comes with a noise and everything. So today we're talking about, well, we're in the midst of the U.S. trade war on the world and Americans are less likely to have a negative view of China. So we're going to take a look at the public views of China and the U.S., of Americans in China and how the world sees China.

The U.S. trade war against the world. Beibei, you know, as a Chinese person, how do you see the U.S. as an actor now that the U.S. has initiated tariffs on China and much of the rest of the entire world? As an actor, I feel like it's an actor acting without a proper script. And at last as to what to do.

But at the same time, I think the team in Washington is starting to feel the pressure, both like domestically and from other countries. I think what's going on is they start to see that things are not as they planned or anticipated. Right. China seems stronger, tougher. It stands seems stronger, tougher than President Trump has anticipated.

So I think they're frantically rewriting the script. Sometimes when I get into debates online, they say, oh, what you need to do is ask a Chinese person. Well, Bebe, you are my Chinese person today. So I'm going to ask you another question. Are you as a Chinese person feeling the pinch of the American tariffs? I don't think so. Well, but I'm also not in like business, right? I'm not like a wholesaler. I did do a little research on about you. So

So I came across this video about Yiwu. You know Yiwu, right? The city. Yes. Oh, you know, I've never been there, but I know about it. Yeah. I think you are going to be thrilled to visit the city. I've never been there, but I heard that it's literally like the international hub, right? It's the international trade market that sells to the entire world. It's like the global procurement base. If you see something with a tag that says made in China, there's a very high chance that it's made in Yiwu.

So actually, I have some numbers to give listeners a better idea. There are 75,000 stores online.

spread over 1500 acres in Yiwu. And it's literally the world's largest wholesale market. And people who buy from, I think, Timu, that's what it's called, or Xin, these popular sites, most likely their products are procured from the city, Yiwu. And it's situated close to major ports in Shanghai and Ningbo, which means there's easy transportation to the U.S. and also the rest of the world.

So in the interview, I even saw this funny cap. It's like a visor, but it has a tuft of blonde hair on top. You know what that means, right? Well, it's like, you know, you see that tuft of blonde hair on top? President Trump, the hairstyle? Oh, oh. Yeah, I think it's related to like the presidential campaign or something.

So the cap, the journalist was interviewing the shop owner about the cap. And he said the cap sells for a dollar at Yiwu. I don't know how much they usually cost in the U.S. Definitely much more than a dollar. But it sells for like $3.29 on maybe on Sheen or one of those websites. And the shipping is $2.99. So it comes down to $6, which is very affordable, right? Yeah.

So anyhow, in this video, which is titled, If it does not light up in the West, it'll light up in the East. It's like paraphrasing a popular Chinese saying, which means that, you know, there is another way. There's always another way. And the video starts with the journalist going into this huge, huge mall, like bigger than you can imagine.

And the first thing he saw was a bunch of middle-aged and older ladies and men learning Arabic. So the day starts with language lessons because they literally sell to everywhere, like business people in charge of procurement. They come to Yiwu and there are so many items, like anything you can imagine and beyond what you can imagine.

the journalist interviewed one of the ladies and he said, yes, we start our day with our language lessons because we do business with literally the whole world. And just knowing English is not enough. And I think their lessons will change according to business and diplomatic situations that China has with other countries. I bet they will be having more like Spanish or other languages that's used in South America.

I mean, just the basics, right, for business dealings. You don't have to have a full conversation. And the lady was telling the journalist how we are not putting our eggs into one basket. We have not anyway. Maybe there are certain shops that sells only to the U.S., but most others, like another lady said, oh, I sell to South America anyway, so I'm not worried about tariffs at all.

And another scene in this video is showing a guy who sells like cups and mugs, and he's using AI to custom make items for its customers all over the world. And, um,

It's saying how in the pre-AI age, it takes the designer about two days to draw the picture that they paint outside the mugs and cups for a certain, let's say, for one customer. Now, with help of AI, they can punch out 20 to 30 designs in an hour. So from the side of manufacturing, they're lowering the cost in every possible way.

And I saw another lady in the video doing a live stream, like selling socks. You know, those socks with like five toes, which make it just look... I have those. They look weird to me. I only exclusively wear those kinds of socks. They're so comfortable. How can they be comfortable? You don't like things to be stuck between your toes. But anyhow...

So maybe once you get used to it, you'll like it. So she was selling those socks in the live stream, and it's instantly translated into 36 languages. Wow! Yeah, so at the bottom, it depends on where you are, where the customers are. It's translated, and you can pick different languages. So things are so much easier. And as the journalist was interviewing another lady,

As she was being interviewed, she got an order from an American business person. But they said that they were going to wait until...

The tariffs is updated to actually make those products and ship those products. Maybe for some of them, the business is on hold because of instability. The demand is still there. Because of what happened in Switzerland, I think what's going on right now, from what I understand, is all these American companies are just placing millions of orders right now because they're trying to get things in that they couldn't get, except with 145% tariff for a few weeks.

So what we're going to see right now is all of the U.S. ports are going to be rammed with imports coming in from China because they couldn't get them for a while. And these companies are trying to beat inflation, which is inevitable. Can I just tell one real quick joke? It has nothing to do with anything. It's not a joke as much as a prank I would like to pull. So for people...

listening, I just want to tell you a little bit about EWU. The videos I've seen, like Bebe, people go into the button stores. So there's a store that sells buttons and all they do is sell red buttons. A sea of buttons. Yeah, 10,000 different kinds of red buttons. And the customer who comes in is making $50,000

of shirts. So they need 250,000 buttons. So they come in and they say, Oh, this button will do. We would like to order 250,000 of these. And then they go, I always wanted to go into one of these button stores and I'm going to do this when I finally go to EWU and say, I would like one button. And see what they say. I actually was thinking about that. Like, what would you do if you say that? I just want one cap. Like, but,

You know, Chinese people are so friendly. I think they'll still do business. Sure, I guess. And probably, yeah, maybe in their mind, it probably will lead to more business in the future, right? Maybe you'll come back and buy another one. Who knows? But then they will be chatting about you once you leave. You know, that guy from the U.S. Oh, yeah.

Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge.

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You're listening to The Bridge. There's a custom in China. People who are outside of China don't know this custom. But if you go into a place where they sell goods, you know, they hawk goods in China, the very first sale of the day is supposed to be lucky. So if a customer comes into your shop and buys something, that's a very good omen for the rest of the day. And if a customer, your first customer comes in and then they leave, that's a very good omen.

that's not a good omen. So I would like to be the first customer in the button store. That way they have to sell the button to me because it's a good omen. Yeah, they will, of course. But the owner will be wondering, is this a good luck sign or a bad luck sign? Maybe he will come back and order 250,000 buttons later.

You mentioned how some business people, like some, they were stocking up, right? And that's actually the case. For a lot of these shops in Yiwu, they've actually done enough business to cover the whole year.

Because of the uncertainty, the instability, when it comes to tariffs, a lot of business people, they actually bought a lot, you know, ahead of time, just so that things don't go crazy. So yeah, I think it shows you a picture of how China is doing. You know, China is not like wallowing in negative emotions, right? Because of the uncertainty. It's being really, really proactive about

in not just responding, but opening up new markets.

Certainly. Yeah. That's what I heard. I've heard that from a lot of different people that basically, you know, instead of being on the phone with their American counterparts, Chinese traders are on their phones with counterparts from all over the rest of the world making deals. So what I think is actually, this is a boon. A lot of maybe exporters who were reliant on the U S are probably already found a few customers in Brazil and France or wherever. And now when the U S customers come are coming back online now,

They're like, well, I guess I have several extra customers now because they were frantically finding new customers, but then they get their U.S. customers back. So now they just have way more customers. Actually, it might actually lead to there being even greater exports from China to the rest of the world. I do want to touch on this article really fast.

This is from April 17th, 2025 Pew research. And it just says that, you know, American opinions of China are less unfavorable, which is a weird way of saying more favorable than they were in 2024. So in 2024,

Say China is an enemy of the U.S. So, okay, 2024, 42%. That's really disturbing. But it's only 33% now. So only a third of Americans think that China is an enemy. So that's really great progress. I think that a lot of this is the Xiaohongshu thing. You know, a lot of people made friends online. But I think also...

The media is actually starting to get a little better about China lately, too. There was an article published in the New York Times a couple days that basically just said, you know, China's moving on and it looks like the United States is not in terms of like developmentally, economically, technologically. China's it looks like China is the future. And the New York Times is recognizing that that's an article by a gentleman by the name of Kyle Chan for people who are interested.

You know, I don't want to sound rude. I'm not being rude. I'm just, you know, trying to tell the truth that I see. I don't think a lot of people in America know enough about real China, the reality about China, to form a credible opinion.

So, you know, they can do all kinds of surveys about what people think, but you need to know enough about it to have a valid opinion. And on the side of China, my observation is from the people to the government, I don't think people care as much about the opinions from...

other countries as much as before. Like a few years ago, for decades, I think China will get easily hurt or Chinese people get easily hurt when they see weird videos about China. Everything has like a dark tinge to it. You know what I mean? Like it gave like BBC videos about China with this like sinister Photoshop effects and music. Yeah. And when... Can I talk about that really fast?

I have a very hard case about this. There's a guy named Jason Lightfoot. He's a human being from the UK. He lives here in China. I've met him. I've met this guy a few times. He filmed himself in China, like saying, hey, this is China. It's great. You know, kind of video. This was a couple of years ago. The BBC took him in his own video and made the plants and trees behind him gray and

And so he did a counter video saying, what are you doing, BBC? Like this is here's the original video. Here's what it looked like on BBC showing that the folks at BBC literally turned green trees gray. I mean, like not even one or two shades. We're talking about like 30 shades of gray, darker and like all weird. And then they put this weird, sinister, creepy music over his video.

And he's just, it's just ridiculous. It's absolutely insane. It's very bizarre. So bizarre that it's become like a joke in China.

Oh, that's BBC style, you know? Yeah. And they're like, you know, people making other funny videos in relation to that. So back in the days, I think a lot of Chinese people will feel hurt because, you know, we didn't do anything. Why would you have misinformation about us, right? Why would you have these really negative opinions about us? But now, like China and the Chinese people, they're so busy doing what they should do.

I don't think they spend much time thinking about this anymore. And I mean, just like the confident people that you know, right? Just like people you see and meet at work. Like the confident ones don't really care as much about what other people think of them.

And I'm happy to see that China is becoming more like that. It's not as sensitive and vulnerable emotionally as before. In a way, like it's got used to it. You know, like the things people say about China doing COVID, right? Yeah. All the, we were doing just fine. Everything was still working. People are not getting COVID. But then they say crazy things about us, which are so off that it's not even worth your attention.

So, yeah, I think China, I don't know all the opinions people have about China nowadays, but China is focused, like it's devoting its energy and its attention to do the things that's good for its people and good for other countries who are willing to work with China to create opportunities.

a better future for the whole community. Yeah, I agree with that. I want to go back to the data in this article by Pew. This is a poll research, and there's an interesting data point. This is among Americans, so U.S. citizens, percent of U.S. adults who say which country benefits from the trade war. I just want to point out again, and people should know this, it was started by the United States, but who benefits according to Americans? 46% say China benefits.

and 10% say the U.S. benefits. So the U.S. started a trade war that even Americans realize they're losing. I think that's kind of amusing. I think...

At the surface, I don't think neither China or US is benefiting from this trade war. But at a deeper level, this trade war is stimulating China to develop like broader markets, right? To make friends with more countries. So that's a really good thing, you know, for the long term. But I don't think...

either side wins when it comes to export business in China and also the rights and benefits of consumers in the U.S. They're going to pay more. I think that's definite. But I mean, who wants that, right? Who wants to pay more for the same thing that you could have gotten a lot cheaper a few months ago? I mean, all the ups and downs is just kind of... But I think maybe the new administration...

The hundred-day-old administration in the U.S. just needs this period, all this. In China, we say zhe tou, just going up and down, flipping left and right. Maybe it just needs this process to get to know the reality, right? To be on the same page with China and with other countries. Actually, there's this professor from Fudan University from Shanghai. I like to listen to him talking about international relations. He's like,

You know, in the hundred days since Trump took office for the second time, I have done more work in three months than what I usually do in a whole year because of the policy changes and because of the...

Like the psychology of President Trump. He's like, besides the normal work that I have to do and all the extra interviews and podcasts and videos, you name it. He's like, I'm now studying psychology. I'm studying psychology because back in the days in the field that I work, like international relations, we assumed that you were dealing with normal people, right? With normal, reasonable psychology mentality. Right?

But he's like, no, I realized I need to study the mentality, you know, the psychology, the thinking process of people who are outside this realm and learn how we as a country or, you know, as a business community should deal with people with such unexpected reasoning of thinking, you know, how to deal with people that are not as normal as you are used to.

So it's like I'm taking like psychology classes so that I can anticipate some of the moves by President Trump. So he's like, it's a challenge that I never envisioned that I have to deal with.

But I think he's having fun. You know, it's really exciting in this field right now. Exciting and interesting. I want to go back to what you started your commentary with, that no one wins in a trade war, that everyone's losing. I think yes and no. I think obviously economically, this hurts all parties because trade is good for everyone. So, I mean, actually, for people who don't know that, if you pick up a like,

economics 101 book introduction for economics or economics for beginners number one thing you're going to learn in there is trade is good for all parties so

Bebe is completely right numerically to say this hurts everyone. But I do want to point out that there is a victory for China in there. And it may not seem like a victory because everyone's losing economically. But a lot of Americans, I wouldn't say normal Americans, think probably 98% of Americans don't spend a lot of time thinking about China. They're probably watching sports games or whatever. But a lot of Americans in Washington, D.C., who are

had underestimated China in its importance to the United States and its resilience and its economic power globally, I think that they learned something from this horrible experiment that Trump set in motion and that basically it realigned their expectations with reality. There's this imagined China that exists in Washington, D.C. that is nothing like the real China that we talked about earlier. And I think that the engagement that the White House saw

sought with this imaginary China went so sideways because the real China actually exists. And I think it reset a lot of people's expectations. And now they're realizing that they lack information about what China is really like, that they don't understand and that there's a great deal of learning that they need to do.

Yeah, and that's not just for numbers like statistics when it comes to business or the economy or even the military, but also the personality of China. How should we deal with China? When you deal with people, when you conduct business, you don't just study the numbers. When you are in negotiations, you get a feel for how the other side works. So you adjust your language.

and your gesture and your strategic approach, depending on the personality of the other side. Like for the whole thing, the attitude from the U.S. side is just not practical. I'm not going to say right or wrong, but the attitude from the U.S. makes China uncomfortable. The attitude is, it's like President Trump saying, I'm going to do what I want when I want. I do not care what you think because...

Because I think you will just listen to me. You're just cave in and do what we dictate. Right. So because usually with trade negotiations, with trade and terrorists, there should be talks in between. Right. Before you move the numbers from like 10 to like 145. But that was not the case. So.

Well, if you study Chinese history, you understand that in modern China, like China does not cave in to pressure or to this kind of attitude. This is just not how China works. You be nice. We'll talk. Right. You're not nice.

Maybe I won't talk back, but I'll walk away. So I don't think the team in Washington understands this personality side of China. How should you deal with it? If you could sign a deal by just saying something nice, why wouldn't you do it? Right. So I think in the whole process, President Trump's team, I hope they're getting a better feel of how to work with China. And also, I think China's response to this whole trade deal

It's not just about doing business, you know, which is important. We want that 15% of export, right? Rather than losing it. But the more important thing is China wants to show itself and also show the world how we want to be treated by others.

Like what China will allow others to do and what China will not allow others to do. Meaning attitude wise, like, do you allow others to treat you this way? And China says, no, I will not just do what you tell us to do. And when you tell us to do, we're not weak like that. So we're not going to let any others dictate our fate. That's what China is trying to say, I think.

That's what China is trying to say. And showing the international community that maybe you shouldn't do that either. Right. How think about how you want to be treated by others and do accordingly. You know what I said? Firstly, I agree with you wholeheartedly and how I tried to explain this to people online during the period in which China was not responding to the United States and the crazy demands coming out of the White House daily. Like it was insane. Like

China's going to call us any day. And it was like every day you need to call us. And it was China wasn't answering or responding. No diplomat in China was saying anything. What I tried to tell people was, you know, a long, long time ago, China signed some unequal treaties. China is not going to do that again. So if you're expecting China to sign some crazy

trade treaty with the United States where it kowtows to Washington. It's not happening. You need to look at history. China learned from the past and it's not going to do that again. It's not necessary for China to do that.

You know, China's not going to starve from losing that 15% of export. I mean, some shops might lose their business if they are only tailored to the American or Western market. But most shops are not. They sell to the whole world. You can't imagine the volume of trade. You know, just leaving Yiwu, it's an incredible amount of trade. And companies...

Coming back to Yiwu City. So you know about the new visa policies, right? And also tax refund policies. Oh, yeah. Some of them only come into effect on May 31st. Yeah. So and also, I think on June 1st,

China will... They're from May 31st, 2025 to June 1st, 2026. They're opening up to five more countries. Right. Which makes it 43 total visa-free countries where the citizens from those countries can come to China tomorrow. Yeah. Well, as of the beginning of June, citizens from Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Peru, and Uruguay will be able to enter China without a visa for the first time ever.

and they can stay for 30 days. So you can see how fast China acts and how flexible Chinese policies are in response to external conditions. And to be honest, as a Chinese person, we feel really proud that our government can respond to situations so responsibly and also with such speed and right to the point. Like, no nonsense. Let's just do what we need to do.

Hey everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge Podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. Ever wondered what's actually going on in Africa through the perspective of an African? How are things really going between China and Africa? What's the narrative of this relationship?

I want to talk about the visa-free policy in light of one headline that I saw today for the first time. Can

It came out May 20th, 2025. China soft power. And the headline is, How China Became Cool. Western live streamers and Chinese video games have burnished the country's image. And it's an image of a Western person taking a picture of the Great Wall. And I made a post recently on social media where I basically said, China...

is foresight by opening up to these 43 countries, visa-free policy is why China is now internationally seen as this really cool place to go because all of these people from all over the world, they're coming here and they're seeing...

Wow. China is much different than I had imagined. It's gorgeous. Whether they go to see nature like Guangxi or mountains, or they want to go see the Yangtze River, or they're looking at the Bund in Shanghai and they love cityscapes like me, wherever they're going, they're saying, wow, this is amazing. They're posting all of this content on Instagram and Facebook and X and Reddit and all this stuff. And China is actually becoming the cool place to go. And this is because

directly as a consequence of Chinese government's foresight in letting tons and tons and tons of foreigners from around the world just come to China at their whim. Yeah, and they discovered that trees are not gray in China.

And it's not just for tourism, like regular tourism. And it's not just for people coming in to see the real China for themselves. And I love it. I love these videos posted by foreign visitors and the shocked looks on their faces and how usually when they just arrived, they're like timid and a little scared because they heard so many like crazy things about China. And they just discovered that, oh my gosh, the people are so friendly. Like I saw this video, this guy,

I don't know where he's from, but he's like, no, where else will I be able to like give my child to someone else to take care of while I have a meal? So this man and his wife, they are like eating in a small restaurant and their son fell sick. He's still like a baby, maybe like three months old.

And the shop owner, because his son is really, really cute too. So like none of the staff working at a restaurant is like holding him so that the couple can eat. And he was just like so shocked that, you know, people are so friendly and he feels so safe doing that. And also I want to mention another new thing, this new term called procurement-based tourism. And

And because of the instability when it comes to tariffs, a lot more people are coming in to actually buy stuff to take back to their country.

So it's not just about buying and it's not just about tourism. A lot of people are coming in for the first time and a lot of them go to Yiwu and they pick their, you know, like Jason buying his buttons. A lot of people, they come here for a trip just so that they can get the things they want and maybe even bring back directly to their countries.

So new ways of doing business. And I have some numbers here that the number of tourists going into Yiwu increased by like 30%. Wow. I forgot whether it was compared to last year or something. And cross-border tourism increased by 60%. And I think that will keep going. The momentum will keep going for a while. And I actually have a lot more information about China, Latin America, trade.

Now, Latin America, you know, a lot of people go there for visits, for tourism. But information about Latin American countries are not like in daily news here in China until recently. Now, in recent years, also not maybe it's like the public here is more about it now because we see presidents from Latin American countries visiting China.

I think in 2023, the leadership team from Honduras came to China and we saw the news and it was, you know, a really great event. And also, I think in May 10th to the 14th, the president of Brazil was here in China. And also, I think just also in May, the leadership from Chile was here in China.

And I remember their president. I think his name is Boric. And I remember a video about him going to... What's the market for buying...

like antiques and stuff in Beijing. Panjauyuan. Yes. Panjauyuan. You know that place, right? Oh yeah, I used to live there. I remember a video about him. He went to the market and bought Xiao Hongshu, which is the little red book. Not the app, but a collection of writings of Chairman Mao. Yeah, so he's back in Beijing. So all these activities show the attention that China is paying to new markets in Latin America. Okay.

And also, you know, the plan of building the railway across South America so that trade can be facilitated. But I was surprised to discover in this article from CGTN called China-Latin America Trade Booms with Greater Prospects. It came out in February of this year. Now, it's in this article that I learned that this year actually marks the 20th anniversary of the

of the first free trade agreement signed between China and Latin America and the Caribbean community. So it's abbreviated as LAC, Latin America and the Caribbean. It's not new, like the free trade agreement. It's been around for two decades.

And with new members coming in, and since 2005, China has successively signed and brought into force five free trade agreements with Chile, Peru, Costa Rica, Ecuador, and Nicaragua. And free trade agreements with Ecuador and Nicaragua were concluded during the 14th five-year plan period.

So that's from 2021 to 2025. And China is expediting free trade agreement negotiations with Honduras and two have reached an early harvest arrangement and negotiations with Salvador are gathering pace and active efforts are being made to negotiate and conclude free trade agreements with more LAC countries. So you see China doing a lot, like actually taking actions to speed up all these negotiations.

I think things would have taken a lot longer if it's not because of the trade war with the U.S. And also while reading this, it goes into a lot more detail about these free trade agreements with each of these countries. For example, China-Chile free greater treatment. It came into force in 2004, but now it's gathering speed. And bilateral trade had grown like over eight times since 2006. And think of Chilean cherries.

which are very welcomed here in China, and they sell really well. It's becoming a very popular fruit among Chinese consumers. And also, China progressively eliminated tariffs on Chilean wine, which led to a 13-fold increase in wine imports from Chile. So you were asking, who is the trade more benefiting? Think of Latin American countries. Think of ASEAN countries and maybe even the European Union.

Because more business, bilateral trade will be going on in all these areas between China, all these areas. You know, I think it's also fascinating. I saw a video. Someone was showing the port activity around the world online, and they showed ports around the United States during the 145% tariff period online.

And there was virtually no activity. There were very few ships coming and going from U.S. ports. And they showed the port of Shanghai...

There was just like a thousand little dots representing different ships coming and going, which tells me that even though the trade war had kicked off, the United States was clearly not importing a lot, but China was still exporting an enormous amount. And I have some older data here. This is from Statista 2021, the world's biggest shipping hubs.

At that time, these are the biggest shipping hubs in the world. Shanghai, Ningbo, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Qingdao, Tianjin, Hong Kong, and then also Singapore and Rotterdam. So eight of the 10 biggest ports on earth at that time were in China. So even though the United States may not have been importing as much,

The rest of the world, including Europe, was importing even more from China during those few weeks of tension before the percentages came down to what are still high tariffs. So China already, and I think the statistic is more well known now, exports more to the developing world than it does to the United States and European Union combined. There was some concern there.

that oh the Europe is going to side with the United States and it's it's going to be Europe and the United States versus China but very quickly European countries were signing trade deals with China not with the United States and so what ended up happening is now China is even is stronger than ever like basically the United States rallied the rest of the world behind China I mean yes

During that period, like you said, a lot of companies, especially that were exclusively facing the United States, may have felt some moderate hardship. However, China's economy overall is probably in a more powerful position now as a consequence of Trump's actions. I have another article here from PBS, Analysis Trump's Truths with China.

on tariffs comes at a cost to U.S. credibility. And I think that this is probably the biggest thing. This is what economists like Ben Norton are talking about right now, or Warwick Powell. And the reason is...

When Trump initiated this trade war, it didn't just choose China. It chose Canada, China, Mexico, and 50 other countries. And so the rest of the world, the investors, the VC, all of these big financial companies, they're not looking at the United States as a stable place to invest because this trade war is undermining the credibility of whether or not the United States is stable. And recently Moody's and Fitch

lowered the United States credit rating from AAA to AA1, which means it's no longer... It's still a trusted place, but it's not as stellar as it was before this happened. So including U.S.-based credit ratings, the United States, the trust in the investability of the United States and things like T-bills are actually going down. Another thing that's interesting to note during the same time that happened is...

Chinese investments in U.S. treasuries declined to such a point that China is now the third largest

greatest creditor to the United States as opposed to the second. China was the second after Japan, largest holder of U.S. treasuries, but now it's the U.K. It's not because the U.K. increased its holding of treasuries. It's because China has been slowly and gradually reducing its holdings of treasuries because of the instability of U.S. international economic behavior. Yeah. See, that's why

the professor I mentioned was saying that he's studying psychology so that he can understand U.S. policies better. Because like a normal, what we anticipate is that, okay, you have like higher tariffs with China, but why would you do the same to your allies, right? Why would you ruin your relationship with your allies while, you know, and also its relationship with China while you still need their products? It's just like,

It doesn't make a lot of sense. So really one of a kind. I'm just really excited to be reading this article when it comes to China and the Latin America free trade agreements, because, you know, Chinese consumers, we are very excited to see new products from other countries.

And we knew about, you know, beef from Brazil, cherries from Chile. But there are so many other items that we are interested in seeing. For example, in recent years, I've started to see, I think it's called white shrimp from Ecuador. You see them, like I buy them online in these supermarkets. And they're big and they're nice and they're not as expensive as I anticipated.

And for example, here, China-Peru free trade agreement, it came into force in 2010. And in 2024, trade between the two countries reached like 43 billion, which is not a whole lot compared to, you know, the trade between China and the U.S., but that's already seven times the amount recorded in 2010. And a lot more is to come.

And Peruvian products such as blueberries, grapes, avocados, and squid have successfully entered the Chinese market. I'm excited to see in the supermarket that I go to, you know, blueberries from Peru. Just that fancy tag.

will be like light bulb. That's exciting for consumers. We're always willing to try something new. And on the other side, like going the other way, Chinese exports into the country will include Chinese-made smartphones, toys, and passenger vehicles, which are gaining widespread recognition and popularity in Peru. You know, thanks to all this news about trade tariffs and

You know, the effort to beat down some Chinese brands actually made them a whole lot more popular. At least more people know about, let's say, Huawei cell phones or Chinese EVs. And also, I think the increased trade between China and other countries is not just because of the trade war. It's also because there are new, nice products coming out from China.

Five years ago, we weren't really talking seriously about Chinese EVs. And now that's like, well, you hear it all over the place. EVs made from China and motorcycles. For example, China-Nicaragua free trade agreement, which came into force in January 2024. And coming in from Nicaragua into China, our products include

sugar, frozen lobster, white shrimp and cotton yarn, they have seen rapid growth in exports into China, starting from zero, starting from a zero base. And going the other way are Chinese-made products such as passenger vehicles, motorcycles, phones, knitwear and rubber products. They have entered the Nicaraguan market at more competitive prices.

which greatly improves local communities' livelihoods. You know, just last year, maybe nobody owned an EV car from China. And I can see in the future, I mean, who could refuse, right? A nice, fancy EV car that costs less than $15,000. And with all the features that you can imagine inside the car, and they're beautiful vehicles.

So, yeah, I think more countries and consumers are benefiting from this trade war. Talking about speaking all these details. Hey, everyone, this is Jason Smith, host of The Bridge podcast from sunny California. If you like the show, don't forget to subscribe. We love The Bridge. You're listening to The Bridge.

Well, we also have the low-income countries at the FACOC summit, the Forum on China-Africa Cooperation, that China opened up zero tariffs for all of these countries to export their goods to

to china so china understands the importance of lowering tariffs and of international free trade i mean you mentioned the lac free trade agreements but we also have the rcep we also have china's trade with asean we also have all trade deals with the fukak and other other entities around the world china is going around the world

one set of partners and one partner at a time and making better and better deals for lower and lower tariffs at the at a time when the United States is heading in not just in the other direction but start right in the other direction it's really bizarre to me because in the 1980s and the 1990s the United States was the like global free trade King it was like oh

We should all lower our tariffs and this is good for everyone. And now the United States has become the exact opposite of what it once was. And a lot of the wealth that the United States enjoys today is because of that period. And now it's turning around. I just want to point out one very funny and interesting thing that I learned yesterday.

I was watching – I'm not going to say his name, but there's a commentator in one of the two big parties. And he said, oh, if we have higher tariffs on other countries, that means that things that we buy in the United States will be cheaper and so we'll buy American things. And I saw another commentator basically take this apart and why it doesn't make any sense. And he wanted to use an interesting example. Right.

A tangerine orange that is grown in Florida. And I thought, well, this is a bizarre example because clearly, you know, buying tangerines in the United States makes more sense because they're grown locally. And, you know, obviously this is not going to be any effect by an international logistics and supply chain because you're just buying it and it's American. But he points out what people like me and many, many other millions of people are missing is that this tangerine is harvested locally.

by trucks, you know, and put on trucks that are made with parts from all over the world. And then it's shipped in a refrigeration unit that is made with parts from all over the world. And then it's brought to a grocery store where there are lights and there are, you know, walls that are made out of stucco that come from suppliers from all over the world. So even when you think of one, like a fruit that's grown in the United States, it's

It is still touched by logistics and supply chains from countries all over the world, including China. And so like it doesn't actually disconnect it just because it's grown in the United States. And his point was this probably will increase the cost of

of tangerines. So even U.S. grown tangerines that you're buying from the U.S. in the U.S. will probably go up in cost as a consequence of a trade war initiated on another country. You may be saying, oh, let's just buy locally. But nothing is local. That's what we need to realize. Completely local. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting example.

that he picked because it's not what people would expect. And also, I think the case that fruits come in, you know, the paper cases or plastic bags, the netting, yeah, things like that. I don't know about fertilizers. I don't know about fertilizers and other things that they use during the growing process. That's probably influenced too. So that's why,

You get the feeling that the administration in Washington didn't really give it enough thought. Like the ramifications of one policy from the head of the government. What does it really mean? Right. Like all the businesses that we use parts from China to make products that's made in the U.S., how will they do?

Right. So it's just a lot more complicated than some people thought. Well, the other possibility is that they never they probably didn't think that China would say no. Right. They probably think that, oh, we're going to increase the tariff and they're going to follow like there was no plan B.

Well, China has like plan A to like plan T. You know, if this doesn't work, we'll go to plan B, plan C, plan D. Right, exactly. China's ready. China's been long ready for this. China knew that something like this would happen, you know, at least 10 years ago. So they're, you know, it's prepared.

Well, there's an economist named Ko Yu-jin. She's from Beijing, but she lives in the United States now. And she's actually becoming quite popular in the United States, which is great because she can help people in the United States better understand China. And she's pointed out that since 2017, when Trump first initiated his first trade, he

with China, China has been preparing. And so you'd better believe that China is ready this time. And it's like already diversified its exports and protected its markets and become more self-reliant and reliant on its close partners. And so China, when Trump came around, they were like, okay, open the playbook. What?

Page 13 to page 15 for plan B. You know, it makes me think of like I have the image of China or the Chinese leadership as the star student, you know, the student with like GPA of over four, you know, there's GPA over four. Like when I was in college, the students from Singapore, they all have like average GPAs

a GPA of like 4.25 or something, like four was their baseline. So China is like the star student that has got everything prepared. It studies like other countries and other countries' psychology so they know how to deal with them and also their conditions. And the U.S. is like one proud student whose predecessors maybe have really good grades and you think he can just like pull it off.

But, you know, it's coming to terms with what the reality is like.

So, you know, I just want to mention on a newsy side of stuff because we're running out of time. OK, yeah, let's just put this in context. We're essentially in a 90 day waiting period to see what the next steps are going to be, because some of the Chinese diplomats sat down with some of the U.S. diplomats in Switzerland and they decided to bring tariffs down and they asked there were conditions on both sides and there were agreements that were made. But this is actually just a conditional agreement that the

that the two parties have entered into and we still have to see what the outcome is going to be at the end of this 90 day period when the two parties meet again and sit down to make a more concrete deal that may have more lasting benefits hopefully that move into the future so we're not out of this thing yet that that's the big thing that we need to take away it's not over we still need to make sure that

our two countries can work together to build a shared future for all humanity. Yeah, I think there's a huge steep learning curve ahead of the team in Washington to learn about what China is actually like, what China's plans are, and how U.S. should deal with China, and

And also what China has been doing with other countries, building more friendlier communities elsewhere so that everybody can have better products, cheaper products, and businesses can thrive both locally here in China and also abroad. So maybe we should give it some time.

It's up to date on actual facts, actual information, and not just what's in their heads. Let's hope that you're right. I have serious doubts about whether the people in Washington are going to be like interacting with real China versus their imagined China. I'd like to hear our fans' perspectives. If you disagree, agree, you want to add some value to this conversation, let us know.

do email us you know we would prefer if you recorded an audio message of your ideas about this topic and we would play your idea on our show please email us at we love the bridge at gmail.com thank you so much for your time listeners thank you so much for your time baby thank you jason it's always nice talking to you all right bye guys