Friends (With and Without Benefits)
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Hi there. My name is Jan Arden. And if you are just tuning in and you're new to what's happening and you've stumbled across us, this is the Jan Arden podcast. And radio show. And radio show. Thank you, Sarah Burke. Sarah Burke is my co-pilot. She is in Toronto. I am in Toronto.

But I've recorded from all over the place. I've recorded through Europe when I was over there working. You know, the internet is something else. Anyway, welcome, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. Nothing makes me feel greater than knowing we were both at the gym at the same time this morning. You got your pump in? You know, you've got to get your pump in. Anyway, I want to circle back to last week with our friend Kim Dennis. I want to give people an update because Kim Dennis is a medium.

She's a clairvoyant, which means she communicates with people that have passed over. She also can kind of inform people of what's coming in a psychic sense and what, you know, they might want to be doing or not doing or seeing or dating or job wise. But anyway, we had Kim on and you had a really strange experience because partway through our recording, you said, are you guys hearing the piano? No.

And I was like, what? So tell us about that. Oh my gosh, I'm getting goosebumps again. Okay. The floor is yours because we got a lot to catch up on today. This is the little brass duck. I'll put this on social so people can see it. Okay. That came from my grandfather's like office in his house.

So, I was talking about how I've been having a yearning to talk to him and how we keep seeing these like two ducks at the cottage when normally it's a pack of ducks and my dad's made a few jokes like, oh, it's got to be my mom and dad or whatever.

So anyway, during the recording, I heard two piano keys. I say to you guys, like, who's playing piano? I even went as far as asking Kim, is your daughter playing piano in the background? Kim was like, what? I don't hear piano. You said, I don't hear piano. No one's playing piano. There's no piano anywhere. So I got kind of freaked out. Later in the day, I was thinking about it. I have a chair from my grandparents' house in this room right now that we're recording in.

the brass duck. I was just like, oh my God. And the craziest part about the piano keys was it's almost like I could hear the reverb of the room the piano was in at their house. So weird because it was like hardwood floors. Then Sarah, I get a text from her a few hours later when she's putting the show together for last week. And she goes, wait till I tell you, I have found the piano sound

on our session. I'm like, what? WTF? Here's what's weird. So that night I was talking to like a friend of mine who's pretty spiritual and, you know, into this stuff. And he says, you should just ask. You should just ask out loud. Are you here? Are you here, Zadie? Are you here? To my grandfather. So there's a light beside me. It's a touch to turn on. One tap is dim. Two taps is medium. Three taps is bright.

I'm in my kitchen and I go, okay, Zadie, if you're here, just tell me. The frigging light goes on across the room. I didn't touch it. It was touched by something, someone. It just went on. I'm across the room. Then I got a little bit scared. I also live alone. It's like late at night. It was like midnight. So I'm like...

okay, I don't want to be freaked out right now. So Zadie, if it's you, I need to know it's your humor. Because he was a little bit of a SHIT disturber. Eventually, I go and turn the light off. I'm getting ready for bed. A motion detector light that hasn't turned on with me waving my hand furiously at it. I've been pissed it hasn't been working. Turns on. Again, I'm nowhere near it. Do you think you've opened a portal? I haven't had a reading with Kim yet at the time of this recording. We're going to do it soon. And I have so many questions.

I had lots of people DMing me about last week's episode. Yeah. It was interesting because it really opened a conversation of people telling me about their experiences, Sarah. Okay. So, you know, a lot of lights, a lot of electrical things. This light came on, that light came on.

And I was thinking about this and all of a sudden this happened. And it really ran the gamut of what people's experiences were and what they were open to. Someone even wrote me a DM and said that they were really freaked out by it, but they were just falling asleep and the light in their hallway went on.

And they live alone. And I'm, you know, reading this DM and, and she heard her name. Oh my God. The light went on and then she hears Sharon and she goes, it was a clear as, as ever could be. And she got up and turned the hall light off. I'm thinking, are you crazy? I would have got up and turned every light on in the house.

But she's like, you know, I was scared initially, but she said when I heard voice, it was a very familiar voice. And I think it was my mom. And so people were really open, like finding dimes that comes up a lot. Here's the dime.

Yeah. So tell me about the dime. I thought nothing of this before we recorded last week. A dime fell out of my laptop when I opened it, when I took it out of my laptop bag. Oh, Sarah. I had no idea. I wasn't even thinking about this stuff before we recorded, really. And it's weird because I don't have cash on me ever. I got all my cards.

This dime falls out. By the way, it's a 2021. I found another dime at my parents' house over the weekend. I came to see your show in Markham and I stayed over at my parents. And that one said 1993, 30 years ago. That's been in circulation for a while. Now let me...

Great question. You said you hadn't really thought about this stuff until the conversation with Kim last week. So isn't the human brain interesting how it can accept an idea and kind of run with it? So I'm just going to put that out there. Do you think because you were prompted by Kim's ideas of...

communicating with people that have passed over that suddenly your mind was looking, looking, looking for every opportunity. The dime in the computer is a bit much because you live alone, you open and shut your computer on your desk. So the likelihood of a person that doesn't carry cash somehow having a dime get into their computer, that one does twist my mind because that's beyond walking down the street and suddenly seeing dimes because you're looking for them.

I was convinced for a while that my mom was communicating with me through pineapples because she had a pineapple apron and maybe she is. I used to laugh at some of her outfits, especially when she was, you know,

full booting up Alzheimer's she would have things on that were hilarious. She'd have green gloves and, you know, jeans and a red hat and an orange vest. But anyway, she had a pineapple apron that she tied around herself every single day. She wandered around the yard. So I said, Mom,

You know, if you're out there, just show me pineapples. And for a while, when I was concentrating and when I was thinking about it, boy, did I see pineapples. I saw pineapples on television. I saw pineapples. But they were there where I was looking. So I'm not trying to be the devil's advocate by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm just saying since last week, prompted by the idea of your Zadie,

being around you have been or maybe they are like hey the door's been opened she's gonna be open to this and i'm gonna i'm gonna cast my line as it were the one other weird thing that happened as soon as we got off the recording last week i had a message in my group chat with my family my sister got possession of a house last week

There was one item left in the house on the counter, which she sent a picture to me and my mom and my dad. And it was a little duck or swan. She's like, little Zadie's here. He's left the house. Come on. I know. No, I'm... Listen, you don't have to convince me. I've had enough experiences with Kim that I've talked about on the show before, especially that last reading that I had. And we've talked about that with her of, Cilla's here. Celia, Cilla...

She goes, it's a really weird name. I was baffled at first. I'm like, I, and then Crilla, my paternal grandmother. And that you just feel these prickly things going up the back of your neck. And it,

It really is palpable because it's so random. And for her to say it's a weird name. So boy, would I ever love to be in Kim's head for a hot five minutes. I know. To feel and hear whatever it is that comes through. It always astonishes me that mediums aren't much more frightened. Actually, I'm sure they start out a bit freaked out, but Kim said she never was. She left her body and zoomed around her room and

Yeah, she said that she was more annoyed with it when she was becoming a teenager. I'm sure it was like distracting her from picking up boys or something. Who knows? Well, I wonder who's ever in a relationship with a medium. And I know Kim has a long-term boyfriend. I know she's had the same partner for four or five years. And they're really happy. I should ask her next time I see her, you know, how he feels about her being intuitive. Or maybe she just...

Do you share this stuff with all your friends or is there a select group that you can talk about this stuff with? Because that's something over the last week I was like, I don't know who to share this with. Oh, I share it with everybody. There's not one single person that I wouldn't share it with. In fact, my wonderful actor friend, Danny Kind, who's one of the principals on Working Moms, the last seven seasons of Working Moms. If you're not watching Working Moms, it's on CBC. It's also streaming on Gem and it's their last and final seventh season. So it's so great.

And I'm in it again. But anyway, Danny, when she was visiting me in Calgary, I took her to see Kim because she was really interested in seeing a medium and she had lots of things going on. And I took her there and I sat on the couch with her and was like, is this going to be a problem? He's sitting here. Kim said no. And Danny was like visibly like quite shaken up and very emotional about the

the things Kim started off with. I can't wait for you to get your reading. I know. I can't stop thinking about it. So yeah, hopefully by next episode, I can report back on that. Well, do you think you, are you skeptical or is there something that makes you feel positive about

these experiences this week? Like, has it lifted you a little bit? Has it made you think about what is out there? I think I was very caught in like, oh, what do other people think about this weird stuff leading up to last week? Oh. I thought about those things, you know, I told you guys about the he's nothing like your uncle, the dinner thing.

that we had a very quick rewind was at a family dinner. My uncle came, we hadn't seen him in a while. His laugh reminded me of my grandfather. I said out loud to my dad, Oh my God, it sounds like Zadie. Next day, I'm at an appointment and this woman just says to me, Oh, there's someone here for you. And he says, he's nothing like your uncle.

So those things I was weirded out about. But like, how can someone know that detail? Right? Not a stranger. Yeah. So I would say, though, I was scared. I was scared that night with the lights until I was like, show me your humor.

And then everything became like, okay, maybe he's around because he wants my sister to know he's going to see her get married this year. I don't know. Listen, I'm at a point in my life where I am open to any and all of the splendor and joy and goodness in this world and the mystery. And I'm never going to sit here and be concrete about anything. I don't know. I'm not a religious person, but I would never...

you know, say to someone, Oh, that's not real or that's not valid. So anything I'm open to, as long as it's people are doing it in the spirit of kindness and generosity, I don't want to sit across from somebody and say, you've got three weeks to live. And I've never heard of any psychic medium that does that kind of stuff. And if they are doing those kinds of things that I think it's absolutely appalling and unnecessary and

Nobody should be running around doing that kind of stuff. But anyway, keep an open mind. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with Sarah Burke. We are going to be talking about breakups. Well, it's hard to break up in this modern age. Let me ask you this. When you have broken up in the past, are you the type of person that...

constantly checks in on social media on an ex-partner, be it Instagram or any of the socials, Facebook, Twitter? Do you ever look and see what they're doing or who they're seeing or any of that stuff? No. No, I'm not. Honestly? Honestly, because my partners, for whatever reason, are people that don't even do that stuff.

Isn't that interesting? I don't know anybody that doesn't do social media. Seriously. Like of some form, at least Instagram. Instagram seems to be the kindest of all in, in the big things. My ex said, Oh, it's time for my annual post. When I, when I go to the F1, right. When, cause he loved those racing tournaments and,

And it would be one post a year, honestly, like not even a post to be like, here's me and my beautiful girlfriend going to an event. It was like, I'm going to F1. Is F1 car racing? Yes. Formula One? Formula One. Okay. Wow. I feel really so sporty. Well, the thing of it is there's two really specific things that happen with people breaking up. It can be really, really rapid. Like it doesn't, you don't even see it coming.

Um, or it can be this long drawn out thing where people break up over a series of years. I have experienced both. So have I. And I cannot express how horrible they both are. Like, I don't know what happened. I remember asking mom about that back in the day and she was seeing a guy quite seriously before she met my dad.

And she said, I hadn't really completely broken up with this fellow. She goes, I can't really remember. But he was a doctor and he was very nice. But he had no sense of humor. And she said, when dad was coming to get me, and it was kind of a blind date. She'd been set up by her friend, Frida. And dad was, you know, he got mom's address and was coming to the house. And mom said she was running around putting roses, throwing roses in the closet from this other guy.

And because I think mom was trying to break up with him and he was just not having it and sending her flowers and chocolates. I mean, this would have been the 50s. And she said, that's what you did. She said he was just relentless. It just it bothered me, but I didn't know what to do. And, you know, dad shows up and he didn't have two dimes to rub together or two red cents, as they say. And but he really made mom laugh.

But she said I didn't do so great. It took me a long time to tell him that I just can't do it anymore. And he cried and cried and cried. And, you know, then there's the other side of the coin. I remember dating someone for a very short period of time, a comedian, who was probably the unfunniest person. But I was literally, it was 11 months, and I thought things were going really great. And then it disappeared.

This appeared. You got ghosted? While I was staying at their house. Pardon me. Yes. I was down in LA and I was staying in the house. I was there to visit for a couple of weeks and she went to get something, said she was just going out to get something and didn't come back. Come on. It was like one of the worst things that ever happened to me, to be honest. This was...

Oh, gosh, over 20 years ago. I mean, I finally left, but never heard a word. And it wasn't until years later that I got this very...

weird apology letter. It was a very strange time, but it was traumatic. Of course. It took me a long time to kind of, it was jarring. I just, I still can't believe it even talking about it now. It seems very weird. There's sometimes something with a breakup where one of the two people, like a switch goes off and it's like, I cannot even face this person any longer. Right? Yeah.

There's got to be a kindness and respect when that happens to let the other person know versus, well, this was the thing that I couldn't get my head around.

But I think there's also some trauma with the person breaking up. Yes. And so I'm able to look at that now. I think it was so difficult to make that decision and so hard that people just have a breakdown. And so all these years later, I'm able to go

That wasn't out of maliciousness. It wasn't out of meanness. But you don't see it in the moment. You absolutely cannot. It's panic. It's what did I do? It's I'm not worthy. You're looking at all the things that are wrong with you. And it had nothing to do with me. And I know that now. And I actually have the odd little...

repartee social media with this person now. Okay. Funny. Like, uh, she's been married for, oh gosh, probably 19 years or 18 years. And, um, but I, I'm able to just, you know, I'll get a little purple heart or something once in a while that is probably a relief. But the letter that I got was just very hard to read because it was about how completely lost and, um,

and traumatized and just didn't know what they were doing. But you can't see it. So there's all kinds of different reasons. But then I've also had the three-year rodeo of back and forth and back and forth and getting back together and leaving. And I wouldn't do either now. I think maybe that's why I'm still sitting squarely on the fence post, unwilling to even think about being in a relationship.

And I have so many great relationships. I have so many amazing, significant relationships, probably the best relationships I've ever had with my friendships because I'm finally able to dedicate the time and the energy. And I'm older now and I get it and I don't need to be with somebody and I'm not going to do that just because.

You know, all that stuff. I'm a firm believer in everyone who comes into your life, friendship or romantic relationship. They're there for a reason for that time. And sometimes people, you know, like you grow out of them and that's okay. You don't have to be pissed off about it. I'm thinking about a friend that broke up with me right now with what you were just talking about. It was a friend of mine and one of my childhood best friends, but had to stop talking to me out of nowhere one day. Not romantic. Not romantic.

Yeah, I wanted to talk about that today for sure, just with friendships. Yeah, and at the time, I was completely...

like sidelined and didn't understand what was going on, why one of my closest friends just couldn't bear to be friends with me anymore, you know? But now looking back, like exactly what you said, this person wasn't good inside with themselves at that time. And I hope they're good now. Like I can send that weird experience love now, but oh man, back in the day, I, that was worse than any romantic breakup I've ever had. Absolutely. Yeah. Friendships don't always get the empathy, the sympathy, the,

the care and kindness that a romantic relationship does. Like I think someone would be so much more apt to, Oh, do you want to come over? Let's have dinner. You know, if you're going through a divorce after 10 years, but if it's a friend, a friendship of, you know, that you've had since junior high school, people kind of, they don't give that as much weight. I would liken it to a person losing a family pet,

after many, many years and how traumatizing that is. And that now people kind of get it, anyone that's had a pet, but people that have never had a dog before do not understand the loss of a cat or a dog or a bird. My friend Elkin, Elkin if you're listening,

He's a brilliant photographer, has taken so many pictures of me over the years. Including the art for the podcast, we have to mention. Including the art for the podcast, because he shot that picture. He's just a brilliant guy, and I love working with him. Forgive me, Alkin, his bird, let's just say bird, Ziggy, who he'd had for a long time. Birds can live to be 80 years old, folks. Crazy. So a lot of people will their parents, or parrots, their parents, that was Freudian. They will their parrots to...

to a friend or somebody else because they're like, this parrot is only 30 years old and I'm 70, so I ain't going to live long enough. But anyways, Ziggy died suddenly and...

I can't even begin to express what Elkin went through. But anyway, it's along those lines of that kind of lost trauma, you know, whether a person is permanently gone from the earth or gone from your life. But I, it took me years. And if I really am feeling sorry for myself on a Sunday afternoon, I could probably sit down and be sad about that experience, that very visceral experience again, if I was to recall it.

But you also have to approach things with that sympathy for the other person, even when they've done you wrong. Oh, yeah. Somehow you've got to find a way to not have your default setting as anger, resentment. And I've had all those things. And guess who would hurt? Guess who was hurt by that kind of thinking? Vengeance. I'm going to get you. I've had all that. I've had all of that in my life. It only hurts me.

It only infiltrates my heart and makes me sick. Doesn't do a freaking thing to the other person. But anyway, we're going to talk more about that. We've got more to cover. I've got questions for you. Okay. Sarah Burke, you are listening to the Jan Arden Podcast and radio show. And we will be back right after these messages.

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from your daily experience. You're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here with Sarah Burke and Radio Show. I keep forgetting to say Radio Show. We are also on Terrestrial Radio. If you're listening to us on the radio right now, welcome. Thank you for tuning in. And if you've got to get out of your car right now and run into the grocery store and do stuff and you just can't be torn away from your radio, guess what you can do? You can hit subscribe and you can go and listen to it when you get home with your bananas and your pita bread.

Um, don't know what you're making with that. And then you can listen to the podcast in the comfort of your own home with no clothes on. You don't even have to be dressed. You don't even have to be out in the world. We were talking about ending of relationships and Sarah, you brought up a good point about friendships and that your friend after many, many years had decided not to communicate with you anymore, whatever they were going through.

I think what we have to realize is that it is okay to move on from people in our lives, that it doesn't have to be this huge orchestrated massive breakup. I can't do this anymore. I can't see you anymore. I think, yes, people do deserve an explanation of sorts, but it can be as simple as I'm not at a point in my life where I can spend time with you.

It, it's not good for me. Full stop. That's it. Yeah. You do not need to sit and write some diatribe or do this, you know, have a plane, write it out in the fricking sky and,

Can't talk to you, Dawn. Sorry. Love Jan. But we do outgrow people. Don't you agree? Oh, for sure. For sure. And it's so funny too. There's people that I'm still close with from, you know, high school. There's a very small group of them.

And then there's people I've met in the last five years, just at the gym, like in my neighborhood that I'm like, that person is now one of my best friends and I cannot picture not communicating with them every day. Definitely. And people outgrow us too. Oh yeah. There's also people that got married, got into relationships, moved to other countries. And I'm telling you, Sarah, if I see them once every five or six years, it is like we picked up

At the moment the last sentence fell out of the air and they got on the plane and went back, you know, to their lives and we were waving madly in the airport or wherever we are and you pick up exactly where you left off. And people often talk about that feeling of there's no stop gaps. And yet there's other people where you literally haven't seen them for maybe three months and you run into them in the grocery store. And the awkwardness is, it's unbelievable. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Because you're standing there going, I don't really know what to say. Have you ever gone out of your way to avoid someone you've seen in a public space?

Oh, yeah, I have. I have. Can you tell me about it without giving them up? Yes. I'm not an early morning person. It's just not me. When I go to the gym, you know this, I've rolled out of bed. I've been up for 15 minutes. If you're clapping at me and enthusiastic about your day at that time and trying to have like a really amped up conversation with me, I'm sorry. I don't even want to look you in the face. Like I can't.

Okay, so you're not a morning person. So like, I'm fine to be a morning person after like 9am. Like, you know, I'm good. I'm not like, whatever. Anyway, I've seen that person in a public space. And I just walked the other way. I was like, I'm not even going down that aisle. I cannot like you're too much for me in the morning. And I wish nothing bad on that person. I just can't do it. So what do you do? You pray that you don't catch their eye. And you just duck into another aisle. Yeah.

Yeah. And even if I need something in that other aisle, I will leave the grocery store. I can't. You really will. Would you ever do that with me? No, I can't. I can't even picture doing that with you. But can you imagine I tried to ignore you after recording this podcast with you every week? I'd be such a bitch. But I mean, I have done it. But then on the other side of the coin, I've gotten home from and this was probably oh, it was before COVID. I know that.

And I was in the gap, as you are. And I was looking for probably cheap T-shirts or something on sale. I used to like popping into the gap. The gap does not sponsor us. And I saw a girl that I went to college with. And she hadn't changed one single bit. I probably haven't either. I mean, we've gotten older, but I knew it was her.

And she was looking at these scarves and I just, I went in the store and I turned around and I left. And I was so disappointed with myself afterwards that I turned around Sarah and I went back to the Gap.

Because I kept having this ping pong conversation in my head going, why did you do that? How would it kill you to say hello for two minutes? And what if she saw you? I started getting that in my head. Like, what if she glanced over and saw it was me and was just too...

shy or whatever to come up and say hello. I didn't think she'd seen me, but then I was questioning, maybe she did. I don't know if everyone else has these nutty conversations with themselves. So I turned around and I couldn't find her. I went back into the gap and I couldn't find her. Do you know that that has bothered me ever since? That was probably five, six years ago. Let me ask you, what made you feel like you couldn't say hi in the first place?

No. I mean, I had a little, I, it wasn't because of how I looked or anything like that. I'm not that person. I'm not like, oh, I've got no makeup on and my hair is greasy and I didn't brush my teeth this morning because I always brush my teeth. And I don't know. I can't explain it. I just didn't feel like having a conversation of how are you and, oh, what are you doing? And, oh, I have, I, I don't even know. I can't even explain what my, my process was.

Would you agree that that probably had more to do with you, whether it was in that moment and what you like were feeling about yourself maybe that week or even back when you last saw this person? Like, I don't know where your self-esteem was or something like that. I felt quiet.

I was just going through there. I don't even think, I don't even know why I went in. Well, it was a trip that I was going to get something and I can't remember exactly what I'd gone in there to get. But then of course, on my way back down to go into the car, I popped in there, saw her, did the about face, went down the mall, turned around, went back, couldn't find her. And it just bugged me. But you know what? I haven't done it since because now my brain's going, remember what you did last time? You better say hi. Remember how bad you felt about that?

So now I absolutely do. And for me, I'm not, trust me, I'm not bragging or anything like that, but I engage people pretty much all day long because of the nature of my job. For sure. And often it is 99% of the time it's with people I don't know. So that bothered me too. I would have been more apt to

talk to have a complete stranger say hi to me and oh so cool seeing you in here and can can we get a picture or whatever than a person that I actually went to school with that I turned around from so yeah I guess I'll have to unpack that some more at some point maybe we should have a therapist on the show we probably should the woman you were talking about from working moms isn't she the one that plays the therapist

Danny kind. I wonder if she could give me some therapy. Hi, Danny. What are you charging these days? I'm not a therapist, but I play one on TV. Let me help you. That's the next best thing for us. Maybe that's all we can afford, right? We'll just watch working moms. Well, no, I'd be curious to ask other people that are in the public, public jobs, you know, what their experiences are.

We're talking about ending friendships, finding friendships. And something I really wanted to talk to you about, Sarah, was what it is like, you touched on it about your friend in the gym, meeting and having new friendships as a full-grown adult. Not like when you're a kid, not in your 20s. Now going into your 30s, friendships are a little bit more meaningful in a way because you don't have a lot of space in your life.

You're working. You've got friends that you hardly see as it is because of your job. You're trying to figure out how to see them. And I feel like the bigger the city, the harder it seems to be to find lasting, really important connections with people. Never mind COVID, but to make new friends. And a lot of people have talked about that, not having friendships that

they feel like they really need in their lives. Because let's face it, that is the crux of human life, human connection, relationships with your kids, grandmother's family. There's family, but then there's the family that you create with the people that you meet. Chosen family. Chosen family. The Friendsgiving, you know, that people always talk about. The Christmases, you know, they'll do one with their family and then they get together with friends. So friendships are important. Why aren't we

Like, I'm very fortunate. I have amazing friends. I consider you a friend. So that's meeting new people, you know, later on in life. You know, we're friends. We're work colleagues, but, you know, we absolutely need to treat ourselves for dinner and to go out sometime. But do you find it easier or harder to...

meet people and make a connection that you want to go forward with and spend time nurturing. I almost think that in my life when I was younger, you can maybe get everything you need from one friend, right? Like emotional support. My BFF. Someone to work on projects with, someone to talk about boys with. Now I find that I go to certain friends for certain things.

I don't know if you would agree with that, right? No, I think everyone would agree with that. So I think it's about accepting that not every person can fill in all those gaps for you. And that's why maybe new friendships present themselves later in life. So like when I moved to Toronto, I was living in London, Ontario for about 10 years. All my friends were work friends. Well, if work starts going not well, then what happens? You need some support maybe outside of work.

So, now, like in just in my neighborhood, I was talking about a friend from the gym through COVID going on walks to keep ourselves sane, you know, five kilometers here, five kilometers there. Well, we built a beautiful friendship over the last few years and I didn't even know this person when I moved to Toronto. Met her sweaty as all hell at the gym and she's 50 years old. Like, we're not even the same age and she's fabulous. Well, you'll find that having friends that are in different age groups are really important.

It's a really beneficial thing because we're all at different points in our lives. We're at different stations in our lives. We're at different places in our careers. And sharing of information is really important. Sharing of experiences. And perspective. Yeah. Marianne Seeley, my friend, I've talked about her on the show before. She's 91 in March. 91. To have a friend, you must be a friend. Do you think you are a warm person?

Do you think you are easily befriended or are you standoffish? I think it depends on the environment I'm in. I can be sort of guarded and I think that comes with this business. Some of this business is amazing and there are some harder things about it as well. So I might be guarded in certain situations. I mean, at the gym, like just to go back to that, I smell interesting. I look interesting. Like all bets are off. Yeah.

Why do you think you have to have that prickly exterior in a work situation or be on guard? I find that a very typical thing with women especially. And I'm sure in a man's world, they're very used to that being a default constant with them all the time. But women are supposed to be more supportive, you know, when you think about feminism, when you think about supporting each other. And contrary to that, throughout my career, my life,

My hardest opponents and the things that I've had to work the hardest at are women in marketing or in whatever that were very tough on me, tough on my appearance, tough on what I was wearing, tough on my weight. I never heard anything from men. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. You've talked about that before. But I think I'm extremely open to meeting new people, probably to my detriment, but

But I have chosen very well friendships over the years. But like I said, I've gone through intimate relationships, really horrible breakups. And in friendship friendships, I've also been at the other end of saying, I can't have you. I can't do this. And I haven't done it great. I haven't, you know, as we're having this conversation, Sarah, I'm thinking about one relationship in particular that I just dropped because we were so far apart.

with our, how we make our way through the world and, and politics. And there's so many like-minded things about us, but I just, I felt bad every time I engaged in a conversation and I thought, do I just keep doing this or, or do I have the right? Do I have the option to opt out? And do I need to continually feel bad about opting out? No, I don't, but I don't wish her any ill will.

I just don't want to do it. And it's always going to be there. It doesn't matter where we were at. Even if it was like the white flag that got pulled up the pole, like, okay, let's just decide not to talk about this. It's not going to work. I can't do it, Sarah. I cannot do it. No, I get that. I completely get that. There are a few friends that I'm thinking about right now. Sure. I would call them friends. And I know we'd be able to pick up if we went for a dinner or saw each other at an event and

but the people who there's a few people in particular that are maybe stuck on a friendship from seven, eight years ago where they want to have like,

lengthy phone calls like a couple times a month and that's where I'm like I'm sorry like I loved our friendship when it was at its peak but right now I'm not going to have two hour conversations with you our friendship when it was at its peak time is precious right that's what it's about time is precious which is why I want to ask you this one final question because I cannot believe how quickly this show has gone by again okay how do you know and it's very much like dating wouldn't you like in friendships to dating

Like really, what's the difference at the end of the day? You want to find out, are they like me? Do they, you don't have to have the same interest, but you just have to have that vibe. And you do have to have that chemical common ground, that real primal connection that you just sort of feel it. It's attraction, you know, attraction with a friendship. How do you know meeting someone that this person can never be my friend? Is it immediate? Yeah.

I'm not that guarded. I think I'm open to any friendship. I don't think I've ever known a friendship is bad just from a first impression because people are so weird. Well, you're weird. We know that. But there's different levels of friendships. Every lock has a key. So as we wind up our show for this week, just keep that in mind that, you know, you don't owe it to anybody to force friendship.

any kind of relationship or to force a relationship. And if you're in a relationship right now that you're not happy in, please sit yourself down and think about what life's going to look like. And if it's sharing the rant or I can't afford to go, you know, try and, try and really get to the heart of what good is going to come out of this and what bad is going to come out of it. You can opt out. Don't sit there like I did and stay in a relationship.

three or four years longer than you should because that's exactly what I did. Yeah. Don't do it. I've done that too and it was very painful. And I think –

At the end of the day, what we were both doing is probably considering the other person's thoughts and feelings more than our own. Am I right on that? Maybe? Yeah. If you feel crappy when you're around a certain person or when you're talking to a certain person, friend or romantic relationship doesn't make a difference. You got to recognize it doesn't make you feel good and you got to get out. Yep. Anyone I've ever talked to that's ended a relationship, a long marriage, even a six-month relationship has said, oh my God, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner.

I should have done it. So don't be, don't have that conversation with yourself. Anyway, that's it. Friends are great. They are magical. They are joyful. They're, you know, a great relationship. There's nothing like it. It's stuff that dreams are made of. I think what you're trying to say is put that energy into a friendship you truly care about, not the one you're hanging on to because it feels weird to get rid of it. Right?

I'm just going to leave it there. I want to do a shout out to all my friends whom I love so much. I'm so lucky. People always ask me what success means to me. And success is the quality of

of the friendships that I have in my life. And cheers to new friendships. It's been so nice. Absolutely. And thanks for coming to the show, Sarah. Thanks for coming. Thanks for listening, you guys. Hit subscribe. You can listen to us on the iHeart Network or anywhere that you stream your favorite podcasts. Thanks for coming along on this journey. Thanks to you, Sarah Burke, for always being great and running the big board. And we will see you next week. In the meantime, Jan Arden Pod is on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Facebook.

please drop us a note. Let us know what you want to talk about or things that are on your mind, or we'd love to hear from you. Look after yourselves. And as I always say in the famous word of my mother, totally do. This podcast is distributed by the Women in Media Podcast Network. Find out more at womeninmedia.network.